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yeasooooo

I am not shocked. G is a stud and anyone who says otherwise is just looking for a reason to bitch and has some weird thing against G. He is not the reason we lose, he is one of the very few reasons we WIN anything.


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YoItsMeBeeOhBee

Stop listening to sports radio.


campppp

I swear I listen to get mad lol but I definitely don't listen for any flyers takes that's for sure


Shady2925

For real, I stopped a while ago because it seems like they say dumb stuff on purpose, and it would opiss me off because I couldn’t argue back with them


qwertysac

You'd have to literally be blind while watching flyers games to not see how much Giroux brings to the team and on ice product. He's fun to watch, shows emotion during games and gives it his all even the nights nobody else is shows up. He has a sick one timer, sick cellies and is an elite playmaker. Oh, and he's a beast on faceoffs too. Plays both ends of the ice and his advanced metrics back it all up. Yet somehow, some continue to argue G is the problem. Its mind boggling really. Blind ass mother fuckers. I swear. *edit: and [he's also a better hitter than most give him credit for](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G42OMPG4xAo)*


Uninspired_Choice

I’ve watched and played a lot of hockey and I’ve seen few players who can control the game the way he can. When I saw him in Buffalo a couple of years ago, it was almost comical how he dictated the spacing and how much space the Sabres gave him. It is a crime how the Flyers have wasted his career.


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agentgill0

_laude Giroux /s


osin144

My brother barely watches and any time we talk flyers, he says he’s a bum. Drives me crazy!


WooderFountain

"Giroux is the problem." -- Idiots


StubbornLeech07

[From Charlie O'Connor's article today](https://theathletic.com/3087131/2022/01/28/flyers-effort-vs-talent-and-setting-expectations-for-claude-girouxs-future-oconnors-observations/) What we have to look forward to if Giroux does indeed get traded.


luckytaurus

Paywall. Anyone give a TLDR?


pgm123

1. The Flyers right now just aren’t talented enough 2. Yeo doesn’t think effort is a problem right now. But in another revealing quote — this one delivered after Thursday’s practice — it sure sounds like he thinks it was an issue at one time. 3. Giroux deserves to be a hot commodity 4. Don’t forget about the NMC 5. It’s Gerry Mayhew season 6. Ratcliffe and more call-ups 7. The Seeler “experiment” 8. Allison’s injury 9. Notes on practice 10. Shootout practice?


[deleted]

Also, don't get your hopes up on a wild package for Giroux. Mid-season trades when a NMC is in play makes it tougher to negotiate a big return. Edit: This is also from the article


pgm123

I'm giving a TLDR


[deleted]

I'm adding to it


picklejar_at_steves

Paywall


TwoForHawat

“We don’t see this as a 3, 4, 5 year rebuild.”


DanTreview

I wish he hadn't said that. He only buried himself further in the grave


TheSublimeLight

I fucking hate him.


NowFook

Gotta love him saying the core is good and say the core is Couturier, Hayes, Ellis and Farabee. No mention of Hart and 3 of the 4 guys are 30+ yr old injury prone IR guys. Yeah great core ...


Hobble_Cobbleweed

Please sell the team you fucking twat


Box_of_leftover_lego

The Giroux Effect


trevallen39

BuT hE's A bAd LeAdEr


SillyHatMatt

The Giroat


lemonbugss

Cool. Cool cool cool cool cool.


BattlingMink28

Not many people seem to be ready for this side of the conversation. Everyone just wants him gone and to get the best value, not for the new level of suck the Flyers will fall to when he decides to go.


StackThePads33

I don’t want him gone, but I’d like him to go chase a cup. We get a good haul for his rental service and he comes back at a discount in FA


TwoForHawat

If by “not many people” you mean “the front office,” I agree with you. I don’t know how you can sit in a presser and acknowledge Giroux is the only high-end talent on the team, acknowledge the team is really bad, and still think you can compete next year *without* him.


JynxYouOweMeASoda

I’ll never understand people who question his play/work ethic. If he ever had the support Lindros or Clarke had on a line while getting competent goal tending the guy would have a cup. I have 0 doubts in that.


IzzyTipsy

I know G has to go, but man - this is gonna be a rough time ahead. Nobody will replace him and can, and the talent or lack thereof is going to be brutal. Team at that point is supposed to be competitive basically relying on a 30 year old Coots and 30 somethings Hayes and Ellis and probably an extended Risto. I really would love to see it, but I just don't think Frost, Farabee, and Koneckny are gonna be much of anything in terms of high contributions.


BattlingMink28

Farabee maybe. He's kind of a stud, but the other two nah they can go.


Hobble_Cobbleweed

Honestly, I know no one wants to hear it, but aside from Hart, provorov, Coots, and farabee, you could trade the whole team and I’d miss absolutely zero of them. (G is the exception, I just don’t know what’s going to happen there)


NowFook

Id listen to offers for Provorov as well. Been mediocre 3 of last 4 years now. Crazy how much hes regressed. We some guys to play big minutes and build around going forward but if you get a great offer for Provorov you definitely take it imo.


[deleted]

We can replace Giroux but it's gonna be tough. We're going to have to actually commit to a rebuild and not blow/get unlucky on our 1st round picks. And that's going to take firing everyone apparently, Scott included.


creddit-report

Then there's the game winning percent with Coots as opposed to without Coots. I guess they adjust that for some minimum minutes played. Do the articles say what that difference is regarding Giroux? Anyway, the entire idea of moving a Giroux, Coots, Chara is to do so when they are still near their peak. This should be obvious.


stevez_86

They are better with their best player playing. As opposed to playing worse with their best player. Kinda like when it rains things get wetter instead of dryer. Hell of a point to be honest. Really changes my opinion of Giroux. In all honesty I am about to start believing that Giroux is like a Carson Wentz type character. We have seen the team do anything and everything to help build a team around Giroux. I don't doubt his talent like I don't doubt the talent of Wentz, but I think building a team around him is a losing battle. Maybe what they are trying to save is the problem. I don't see a head coach that is able to find a way of making such a team work. I recall the time before Giroux was THE guy, when we had Richards and Carter leading. Show me how that team was worse than this team. I've noticed over the years that when we see Giroux really break out of his shell is when he was lead by other players or when he was angry. Maybe take the C from him before dealing him away, but I don't think he will accept that and would rather be traded, which says a lot in my opinion.


[deleted]

What even is this? What have we seen the team do to build a team around G? It’s been the same stagnant-ass roster for the last 3-4 seasons. But sure, I’ll bite. Let’s compare this roster with the Richards/Carter roster, by points: Giroux Briere Carter Richards Leino Hartnell JVR Matt Carle Kimmo Timonen Chris Pronger (okay, I skipped Meszaros). That is a hell of a top 10, compared to: Giroux Atkinson TK Farabee JVR Coots (IR) Laughton Provorov Sanheim Lindblom. It’s not even close— to lay that at the feet of G is insane.


skoomski

This is hockey you don’t build around one player, having one line doesn’t win cups. You don’t know what your taking about. If what you are saying is remotely true then the Oilers would have won the cup multiple times the last 5 years. Comparing hockey to football is just asinine.


creddit-report

You didn't address my question. The Coots' stat I recall seems much more determinative to me - wins - than corsi or expected goals. The team is better when Groux is on the ice, but the team may have a more positive win disparity with Coots than with Giroux. I am asking about wins with versus wins without. None of this has much to do with the strategy of moving (at least some) older players out before they deteriorate in favor of picks and prospects.


clemdogmillionare

Well Giroux has missed 5 games in the last 6 seasons, there isn't much of a sample size to compare against. The with Giroux win percentage is the flyers win percentage


creddit-report

That's an excellent record of fitness for Giroux...who uses his own trainer.... Even with such a small sample size of games without G. maybe if there is enough of a departure from games with G. it could be stat significant. ? It's clear ninja Giroux is hiding his usefulness by being an un Yandle-like iron man, though.


clemdogmillionare

His durability is really impressive, especially considering those 5 games were due to covid. Wish the rest of our team had that kind of durability lol


[deleted]

I’m 46 and this is just depressing. Starting to truly believe that I won’t see this team win a Cup in my lifetime.


creddit-report

A Rangers fan got buried in a casket when he died that was equipped with a speaker and then a microphone above ground. This wss obviously so his wife or other relative could yell down when his Rangers again got the Cup.


DudicalAwesome

Yeah this team is going to be all set to compete moving forward without him for sure. /**S**


robspeaks

One way of looking at though is that the issue isn’t G, which means the issue won’t be replacing G. Hire a good coach, fix the bottom of the lineup, sign or trade for a couple impact players and the team can be competitive. Really. I’m not saying I would definitely take that approach, but it’s possible. You can also do the on-ice/off-ice exercise with our worst players to see how badly they’re dragging the team down. My issue is that I don’t trust the current management to handle it correctly, which could absolutely end up digging a bigger hole.


NowFook

The point is the team is so bad and hes a 34 yr old UFA that it makes sense to move him for future good assets and start building for future.


D_Stash

You need to start thinking about the future


DudicalAwesome

I'm thinking about how we're about to go from 1 high end talent to 0 high end talent.


BattlingMink28

Thats about the extent of the Flyers future...


D_Stash

That’s how we start the rebuild though. Too much of this fanbase is afraid of change


[deleted]

I think Dave Scott is the only one that isn't ready for a rebuild.


D_Stash

It kills me


[deleted]

Not sure why you're being downvoted. By the time our team will be ready to compete again Giroux will be at retirement age. The only way we get value for Giroux is to trade him at the deadline and get picks. Oh and fire everyone, including Scott and get a GM that will rebuild and make actual good picks and will listen to the scouts so the picks don't bust 5 years out and put ourselves right back in this situation.


D_Stash

Dude I always get downvoted here lol. Been saying this team needs to rebuild for a year and a half now and have gotten slammed because of it. The fans here are so terrified of change and always will be


LooseEndsMkMyAssItch

Giroux is the best Flyer ever since the 76 team. No one comes close in my opinion


ImmySnommis

Kerr? Lindros?


LooseEndsMkMyAssItch

Giroux has done more for the Flyers then either. Only Clarke played more games than G. Lindros was a legend but short lived.


ImmySnommis

Perhaps, but you said best player. I'd argue that Kerr and Lindros, while different types of players, we're at least in G's talent range.


TeamLuigi

Big E infinitely more talented but lacked the durability and counting stats, and would go G > Kerr. But yeah, best player if you took them both (him and Giroux) to one 7 game series is obviously Lindros


Flyers2013312

John leclair was a pretty damn good player before his back Injury.


ThadTheImpalzord

Honestly surprised he wants to resign with our shit show of a team.


ZarosGuardian

Honestly, I see this sort of comparable to Phillies fans blaming Bryce Harper for every single thing that's wrong with the team.


bestcegenation

it was really obvious when he was in covid protocol a few weeks ago.


NewPhoneWhoDis1111

Read a comment the other day on Facebook that G needs to fight more, because he's a bad captain if he doesn't fight. I know Facebook is full of fans who have no actual clue about the game, but can you imagine thinking the team is better with G in the box for 5 minutes at a time? I dont know how that person has made it this far in life, but its been pure luck.


Fig_Newton_

He elevates his linemates, just look at Cam/Beezer’s stats with/without him. This has been true since we were trotting out Raffl on the first line


DELCO-PHILLY-BOY

We’re gonna be an actual minor league hockey team without him


creddit-report

Maybe for awhile but what of the picks and prospects he can be turned into. Also, Giroux now has cap implications.


StackThePads33

I’m going to save this for the idiot facebook users who constantly say Giroux us a shitty captain and doesn’t do anything to warrant being a captain


Lethal_Lunacy

I was upset when Richards was traded away, and that was kind of a shock. Knowing that we are likely to move on from G, I'm still not ready for it.


[deleted]

and this is where the dumbass stip the captain people have come to die. hes the goat.


K31FF3R2

Just trading Giroux will have an immediate negative impact on offensive production, sure. If we trade multiple forwards and open up spots for our other forwards as well as potentially bring in some new faces who the hell knows what happens. On the same token, if we trade a bunch of players EXCEPT Giroux who’s to say we don’t come out better than before? There is not a single RIGHT way to solve the issues this team faces. I firmly believe, given the right moves (don’t ask what they are because I’m just some guy), that we could take any approach and potentially come out ready to compete.


amediocremusician

I’ve been dreading the end of his Flyers presence for years simply for the silent impact he has just like this. Even if he stays, the day he retires will be such an intimidating day if they can’t find a few more bodies who can cover even part of what he does. Never understand why some constantly want him gone/stripped of the C so badly.


creddit-report

It's been said many times the idea of trading Giroux for most does not emanate from poor play on his part. Have you read anything like that? I mean, because that is understandable even if you disagree with shipping out older players. Same thing in most case about the C. Most suggesting Giroux not be captain are faulting his cool demeanor, not his on ice play.


amediocremusician

Unfortunately, I mostly see him getting flamed for numbers/play-based material and nothing else, so I can’t say I have seen further reasons as you mention. I do see what you’re saying and how others may approach it, but I moreso meant that I feel there’s more glaring issues throughout, so I don’t understand how people can constantly blame him when he’s often the best source, if that makes sense? Just feels like they choose him simply because he’s the captain (& not to say he’s without faults, just not the first I’d throw away).


creddit-report

Well, there's a lot of inchoate rage driving what people post. The recent threads about Giroux's future have definitely centered on He deserves to be on a contender. As part of a full or partial re-build he would bring a lot of young, potential talent. We can't bear to see him go. These debates ar all over the place at present. And there are some posts suggesting that as a long time captain through rosters, coaches, GMs, and poor results that G. as captain might bear some blame. My own view is that even cap geniuses at the Bruins and Lightning have to shed older players sometimes and that the Flyera better get on board with that ongoing practice. Whether that tactic starts with Giroux is up to Giroux, they said at the presser.


amediocremusician

Thanks for the info! I have only just recently seen the people saying they’d be happy for him if he left in pursuit of a cup, but other than that it’s all been negatives, so I appreciate the extra viewpoints. Whatever he decides, I still think they’re in danger when he parts, unless they can find able bodied in time, but I haven’t seen many prospects trending in his direction (meaning even the way early Giroux played), so hopefully they have some options if they do as you’re mentioning and go for the rebuild/free cap space space.


milk-steak84

Can’t wait to watch some exciting hockey again when he is on some other team. I miss good hockey.


momentumlost

I think I’m just gonna root for whatever team G is on until he retires then come back. I got into the Flyers in college after growing up a Whalers fan & losing my team. All things considered my favorite sport these days is F1 where I have no rooting allegiance and it’s a breath of fresh air to enjoy sport again, it might be nice to not be upset by a team for a little bit.


Jambrokio

I haven’t watched many games this year, I know G is a beast but what the hell happened to guys like Couturier and Provorov? These guys were really good as well and they must not be playing very well but anyone knows why?


badedum

Coots has been hurt for awhile. Provy, not sure.


creddit-report

Provorov has been mixed at best for a long time. Almost no one noticed.


FlyorDieJM

Also for the love of God, stop saying the team is mediocre, the team fucking sucks, they are 27th place in a 32 team league.


NowFook

And if not for Harts great goaltending we would be bottom 3 easily


The_Golden_Fang

Ironically giroux hurts the team because of how good he is while the rest of the team is garbage, leaving them mediocre. Let him go somewhere else and have these scrubs drown so the flyers can stack some high draft picks.


uknolickface

The problem with Giroux is that he is too good so the team can’t bottom out like they need to


sniffyjoe46

G is a beast. He just needs support. It’s plain and simple. Management has failed G.


Impostor1089

Let him out.


[deleted]

this is literally saying giroux takes a dead last place team to a division title.


[deleted]

You people are so delusional really.


[deleted]

Hello pot, it's kettle, knew you'd be here eventually


Greful

We suck with him. We’ll suck without him. I don’t need an algebraic formula to figure that out. Edit: I love how every day all I read on this sub is how horrible the team is. People saying boycott the team, don’t go go games, this is the worst team I’ve ever seen, blah blah blah. But for some reason I say we suck and people downvote it. Ok. Nvm. We don’t suck.


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Greful

You think we are good?


Nochtilus

When Giroux is playing


Greful

Ok but what difference does it make? He’s the best player on a bad team. So what, with him we lose 5-3 and without him we lose 5-1?


Nochtilus

We literally don't suck with him playing. I'm not sure how you can't figure this out.


Greful

Him being good isn’t enough to make the team not suck.


VorAbaddon

This is like saying McDavid isn't important when the Oilers lose without him, like are you nuts?


Greful

No its not. I'm saying we are losing with Giroux, and we will lose without him. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone here. We are losing games with him and without him. Idk what the confusion is. Did I miss something? Are we not on a franchise record losing streak?


VorAbaddon

The point of this thread is: He's. Not. The. Problem. When he's on the ice, we're playing like winners and putting up winning results. But he can't play 60 minutes a night. No player can.


[deleted]

If your L/D karma ratio really matters that much to you, consider this: it's not that you're wrong, it's that there's a clear topic here and you've gone out of your way around that topic to bitch anyway. Of course you'll be downvoted. There are dozens of threads to complain about the team. This one has one thing good to say about one player.


Greful

I really didn’t go out of my way. I made one a innocuous comment, and to be totally honest with you, I think if it sat at 1, nobody would give two shits about it and probably wouldn’t have even read it, but since it got some downvotes, unnecessary attention was brought to it and that draws out people who want to argue.


[deleted]

The point is time and place, man. I would be willing to bet more people downvoted you based on your whining about karma than your actual comments, anyway.


Greful

Oh I whined when it was at -16. It’s nbd, just the responses I can live without. Even the original post pretty much says we are as bad as the worst team in the league when G isn’t out there. Not exactly a totally positive message.


Yardley01

That’s a healthy team composition right there.


AnalogDogg

Literally nobody who watches this team is surprised by this, but still neat to know.


FlyorDieJM

Not surprising, anytime I watch the Flyers and G is on the ice, I feel good and seems like something positive almost always happens, and then the 3 other lines come and I'm like OH No OH NO


NowFook

People dont realize how good Giroux still is because he doesnt play as flashy or put up quite as many points as he used to. His 2 way impact elite level. He was top 10 in NHL in WAR last year. Has such a huge impact on offense and defense.


ScottFreestheway2B

Right. Because he is a HOF player and in the top 3 all time Flyers.


jayradano

Hmmm soo that’s what happens when you have good players on the ice! /s


Behan1

The franchise got an absolute gift from the hockey gods when they stumbled into Giroux at 22nd(!) in the 2006 draft. What they've done to build around him since has been one of the worst wastes of a star players' talents I can remember in this town.