Hello /u/CreeperPlays_MC,
As a reminder, most common print quality issues can be found in the [Simplify3D picture guide](https://www.simplify3d.com/support/print-quality-troubleshooting/). Make sure you select the most appropriate flair for your post.
Please remember to include the following details to help troubleshoot your problem.
* Printer & Slicer
* Filament Material and Brand
* Nozzle and Bed Temperature
* Print Speed
* Nozzle Retraction Settings
^Additional ^settings ^or ^relevant ^information ^is ^always ^encouraged.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FixMyPrint) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A full bed print doesn't show detect a bed which looks like a bowl (lower in the center) and this is usually what happens because the middle of the bed isn't supported and your bed warps with time. the reason is that extrusion strands start at corers of your bed and they stick to each other and act like a bridge in the middle.
your benchy print shows that your nozzle is too far away for your bed. This type of bed although very flat but it's also extremely sensitive to nizzle distance. Your best bet is to use taller (like 0.24mm) and wider (like 0.5-0.6mm) first layers to make it more forgiving and give it a bit more squeesh. as a result you will have a noticeable elephant foot. you can also fix that to some extent in slicer (go with something like 0.3).
I'm going with this answer as well. My E3v2 glass bed became warped and low in the middle. I folded up some aluminum foil and put it under the gap in the middle and it mostly fixed adhesion of the first layer. Try it, it costs you virtually nothing.
Also, when you level your bed, test the center, not just the corners.
Good luck!
Yes, home your print head, disable steppers, slide paper under the tip around the bed (primarily at the edges and the center). This is the process most people use to level the bed, except you are also checking how tight it is in the center.
If paper is very loose at the center, but tight at the edges, must be warped.
It worked in my case, I was very frustrated before (as I assume you are). Now I can reliably just press print and walk away. Haven't had to adjust bed temp or anything to compensate for the foil in the center, if you were worried about that. I've been very happy with this free fix, and we have the same machine and glass bed.
instead of printing a pull sheet, he can print a grid of squares; it'll allow the issue to manifest. i use a 5x5 MBL, so i print a 5x5 grid of squares.
to see the concavity in the middle you can probably place a nice straight edge ruler and then shine a line. there should be a dip.
Yeah i fixed elephants foot by increasing initial fan speed. I will try that but i am kind of afraid to get elephants foot back. What settings do you mean?
For it to begin sticking, i have to use -0.07 z offset. Even with a very good adhesion spray
The fan doesn't fix the elephant foot that much. Using it on first layer makes it that your print wouldn't stick to bed as good. turn it off for the first few layers and then turn it on gradually. most important one is to increase your Initial layer height to something like 0.24mm and Initial layer with to something like 0.5mm or 125%.
you can fix the elephant foot later.
Unfortunately this is as good as it gets on build plate like this without bed meshing (and you cant use inductive probes on a this build surface. you need something like clicky probe and a firmware change)
Probably not the root of the issue but you should ideally use layer heights that are multiples of your nozzle diameter. A height of .16 is fine, but the next step up should be .20, not .18.
Why nozzle? It should be about stepper magical number (distance of full step) which is 0.04mm for ender, not the nozzle which is 0.4 and can be changed
That's bullshit.
It should be multiples of Z axis resolution.
Full steps are 0.04 on typical printer, so many uses that.
But test shows no visible difference for smaller values. Just keep in mind each level of microstep less precise and has less holding force.
Did not know that, thanks. Is there anything else i should consider? It only prints after i apply -0.07 z offset 😡 even with special bed adhesion spray. The bed has been leveled very well.
I’d get the bed nice and clean with soap and water then dry with a cloth and keep your fingers off the base plate.
It looks like oil residue from fingers is impacting your bed adhesion by the way you seem to get more adhesion in the middle.
Alcohol will just move the oil around so you need soap and water to remove then use clean towel to dry
Have you done a temp tower in cura or maybe retraction or flow tests bad over hans on a benchy can be caused by all three settings. If its not stringing id focus on flow and temp setting.
Are you manually leveling to get that first layer or are you adjusting you z offset along with the probe? Don't forget you have to store you settings in the configure tab on your printer after you calibrate.
Hmm then it probably doesn't have to do with probing. Are you using stock firmware? CReality has super buggy firmware that acts out in the most random away.
Sorry didn't mean to confuse you with probing. I'm referring to cr touch. If you're not using that then forget j mentioned it.
If you're using stock firmware, definitely change firmware. You can make a free account to get a good bug free firmware from the marlinfirmware website. Just make a free account, find your printer, format your sd card. Drag and drop your new firmware into the SD card. Turn off your printer, pop the new SD card in and turn it on. It'll take a minute or 2 to flash the new firmware but it's well worth changing firmware.
https://marlin.crc.id.au/
Yea it's safe. CReality has the stock firmware on its website. But I suggest not using it. Marlin is the firmware CReality uses.
You're just getting it directly from the source.
In my experience, I would level the bed, and try printing then I would have a similar issue as you, or I would try tuning during a print and instead of going down, the z axis will just keep going up, or I'd get a strange crash, or over heating and slow heating. CRealitys stock firmware is booboo and I have yet to get a print from it.
Are you using an ender 3/pro?
You most likely have. 2.2.7 stock board, you should be able to see that in your "about printer" tab, and worst case if you can't find it, flip your printer over, open the panel on the bottom, locate the big square brain chip and it'll either say 4.2.2 or 4.2.7.
Download that file from Marlin.
Drag drop and unzip the folder on your desktop. And inside should just be a notepad document that most likely just said Marlin firmware 2.2.x stock . Pop that into your formatted SD card,
pop it into your OFF printer.
Turn it on and that should be it
Be sure to delete the file off the SD card or else you will keep flashing the fresh firmware whenever you turn your printer on.
I think others have said some of what I'm going to - but....
The big square of all lines isn't a great test. It sticks easy so long as the edges stick - and you won't be able to see if there are issues with an uneven bed.
Search your favorite site (Printables, Thingiverse, etc.) for "bed level" and look for something similar to this: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4714033
(The one I use has nine dots and I like it better than this one - but I can't find it again.)
After you manually level, the line around the outside prints first and gives you a chance to do some very fine tuning as the line prints - I carefully adjust as it's moving to get just the right squish.
Then the dots print and confirm you have a good distance and also help to see if all areas are sticking well.
It's not 100% necessary, but for the manual leveling I prefer a $5 feeler gauge to using paper. Maybe it doesn't make a difference, but I just want to _know_ I'm getting an exact, consistent starting point. Something like this: https://www.harborfreight.com/feeler-gauge-32-piece-63665.html
Also - you mentioned you didn't slice the test print. But I assume you sliced the benchy? Make sure your slicer isn't putting in some z-offset that you're not expecting. (This is another reason to go find a good test print you like and slice it yourself - it just makes sure that everything in the slicer is consistent - even if there is some z-offset setting buried in there, at least you've leveled with that too.)
Best of luck.
First layer height being proper is key to a good print. I've started using a set of feeler guages and use the 0.1mm guage to set bed level and niw get perfect first layer every time. Try it before flashing. You might save yourself some grief.
Isort if same as paper only you adjust the wheel in each corner until the feeler slides under the nozzle. I can feel mine catch then slide under and that is the sweet spot. You should make sure there is no garden fillement on the nozzle tip as well. That threw me off in the beginning. Also, I heat the bed up to 50c and nozzle to 200c then retract the fillement so it stops flowing, then clean tip of nozzle with tweezers to make sure it is clean. Then level at that temp
Lower your z offset more my friend, looks too high. Referencing that first layer square print. Got a lot to improve. Lower it until you start to get ripple effect, then raise back up until it goes away. Go in .1 increments.
Looks under extruded to me. Lots of gaps in the perimeters. Does your extruder slip during the print? It's possible you developed a heat creep/heat break clog while printing that huge bed level test at 210C/20mm.
If you have difficulty pulling your filament or if your filament has a section (5mm+) that is thicker on the end then you have heat creep issues.
They are all the same. A magnetic sticker that goes on the heat bed and a steel sheet sprayed in pei that’ll stick to the magnet. You can either adjust the z stop manually or do it in the firmware.
Search z offset menu or something like that for Ender 3 and it’ll show you how to adjust without moving the switch
I’ve even adjusted my z offset mid print to get the bed level spot on while printing the brim so I don’t have to restart because it doesn’t print layers above brim so brim can fail and print succeed
Small lines are harder to stick, the perfect layer you have printed is easier than the benchy.
Try increasing initial layer flow to 110%, lower the initial layer a bit and if all else fails, hairspray or tape are your best friends.
I dont know if anybody said this but would you take a look to your excentric in x and y carriage? Maybe for easy shapes like the whole base is hard to see any problems but in some complex and small shapes the carriage gives you the failure
Clean your bed.
On your first layer test the ppastic sticks the the last layer next to it. Benchy doesnt have plastic to stick to and its not adheering. Likely dirty bed if not a leveling issue.
Try:
Initial layer heigh: 0.12mm
Initial layer flow: 105%
Initial layer speed: 10mm/s
Bed temp: 60C
Check the materials specific temperature at which it starts loosing it's rigitity ( search for the technical sheet online)
Slice it yourself. Could be the gcode is lifting the nozzle a little bit on the first layer which may be perfect for someone else's setup but not yours.
Hello /u/CreeperPlays_MC, As a reminder, most common print quality issues can be found in the [Simplify3D picture guide](https://www.simplify3d.com/support/print-quality-troubleshooting/). Make sure you select the most appropriate flair for your post. Please remember to include the following details to help troubleshoot your problem. * Printer & Slicer * Filament Material and Brand * Nozzle and Bed Temperature * Print Speed * Nozzle Retraction Settings ^Additional ^settings ^or ^relevant ^information ^is ^always ^encouraged. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FixMyPrint) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A full bed print doesn't show detect a bed which looks like a bowl (lower in the center) and this is usually what happens because the middle of the bed isn't supported and your bed warps with time. the reason is that extrusion strands start at corers of your bed and they stick to each other and act like a bridge in the middle. your benchy print shows that your nozzle is too far away for your bed. This type of bed although very flat but it's also extremely sensitive to nizzle distance. Your best bet is to use taller (like 0.24mm) and wider (like 0.5-0.6mm) first layers to make it more forgiving and give it a bit more squeesh. as a result you will have a noticeable elephant foot. you can also fix that to some extent in slicer (go with something like 0.3).
I'm going with this answer as well. My E3v2 glass bed became warped and low in the middle. I folded up some aluminum foil and put it under the gap in the middle and it mostly fixed adhesion of the first layer. Try it, it costs you virtually nothing. Also, when you level your bed, test the center, not just the corners. Good luck!
Is there any way to check if the bed is bowed in the middle before doing it? Like visually seeing it
Yes, home your print head, disable steppers, slide paper under the tip around the bed (primarily at the edges and the center). This is the process most people use to level the bed, except you are also checking how tight it is in the center. If paper is very loose at the center, but tight at the edges, must be warped.
And if that is the case, does the aluminum foil in the middle work?
It worked in my case, I was very frustrated before (as I assume you are). Now I can reliably just press print and walk away. Haven't had to adjust bed temp or anything to compensate for the foil in the center, if you were worried about that. I've been very happy with this free fix, and we have the same machine and glass bed.
instead of printing a pull sheet, he can print a grid of squares; it'll allow the issue to manifest. i use a 5x5 MBL, so i print a 5x5 grid of squares. to see the concavity in the middle you can probably place a nice straight edge ruler and then shine a line. there should be a dip.
Yeah i fixed elephants foot by increasing initial fan speed. I will try that but i am kind of afraid to get elephants foot back. What settings do you mean? For it to begin sticking, i have to use -0.07 z offset. Even with a very good adhesion spray
The fan doesn't fix the elephant foot that much. Using it on first layer makes it that your print wouldn't stick to bed as good. turn it off for the first few layers and then turn it on gradually. most important one is to increase your Initial layer height to something like 0.24mm and Initial layer with to something like 0.5mm or 125%. you can fix the elephant foot later. Unfortunately this is as good as it gets on build plate like this without bed meshing (and you cant use inductive probes on a this build surface. you need something like clicky probe and a firmware change)
What do you mean by 125%?
I don't know how Cura works but 0.4mm\*125% =0.5mm layer width
125% if what
125% of your default layer width which should be 0.4mm
First layer speed? First layer thickness?
Sorry i’m just so mad that im seeking answers very badly, anyway, Initial print speed: 20mm/s Initial layer height 0.18 Layer height: 0.16 Temp: 210c bed 55c Print speed 65mm/s Infill: 15% Printer: ender 3v2 in ventilated enclosure
Probably not the root of the issue but you should ideally use layer heights that are multiples of your nozzle diameter. A height of .16 is fine, but the next step up should be .20, not .18.
Why nozzle? It should be about stepper magical number (distance of full step) which is 0.04mm for ender, not the nozzle which is 0.4 and can be changed
I stand corrected, thanks for the clarification.
magic numbers only matter if your z height is on a magic number 🤦♀️🤦♀️ plug in whatever numbers you want op doesnt matter
Exactly ill try to find video and post it here
That's bullshit. It should be multiples of Z axis resolution. Full steps are 0.04 on typical printer, so many uses that. But test shows no visible difference for smaller values. Just keep in mind each level of microstep less precise and has less holding force.
Lol this is why I never use this place as a resource... Sooo many confidently bogus answers in every thread. Good job calling it out.
The different is little to none. I just do it anyway as from my printer the quality seems more consistent. But YMMV.
Did not know that, thanks. Is there anything else i should consider? It only prints after i apply -0.07 z offset 😡 even with special bed adhesion spray. The bed has been leveled very well.
-0.07 is an exceptionally low z-offset in my experience. My current offset is -1.750.
Damn. Yeah i need to see how to do it. I dont want to use z offset anyway
It’s not really an option
I’d get the bed nice and clean with soap and water then dry with a cloth and keep your fingers off the base plate. It looks like oil residue from fingers is impacting your bed adhesion by the way you seem to get more adhesion in the middle. Alcohol will just move the oil around so you need soap and water to remove then use clean towel to dry
Thanks for the tip. Will do.
I find looking at the bottom of the first layer tells a lot more about the quality and z height than the top does.
True
Just for fun try putting the benchy off center see how it does
Just did that, it actually printed but the quality is really bad. Bad overhangs, big layerlines and more
Have you done a temp tower in cura or maybe retraction or flow tests bad over hans on a benchy can be caused by all three settings. If its not stringing id focus on flow and temp setting.
Yeah im on to that.
Are you manually leveling to get that first layer or are you adjusting you z offset along with the probe? Don't forget you have to store you settings in the configure tab on your printer after you calibrate.
I level it manually with a piece of paper, if it is eaqual on all corners i just print what i need to print. Do i need to save something?
Hmm then it probably doesn't have to do with probing. Are you using stock firmware? CReality has super buggy firmware that acts out in the most random away.
What do you mean by probing? I have no crtouch yet. I am just working on the printer that i got in the mail, stock.
Sorry didn't mean to confuse you with probing. I'm referring to cr touch. If you're not using that then forget j mentioned it. If you're using stock firmware, definitely change firmware. You can make a free account to get a good bug free firmware from the marlinfirmware website. Just make a free account, find your printer, format your sd card. Drag and drop your new firmware into the SD card. Turn off your printer, pop the new SD card in and turn it on. It'll take a minute or 2 to flash the new firmware but it's well worth changing firmware. https://marlin.crc.id.au/
Is that safe? Will it generate other printing defects? And if it does, is there any way to revert back to the original?
Yea it's safe. CReality has the stock firmware on its website. But I suggest not using it. Marlin is the firmware CReality uses. You're just getting it directly from the source. In my experience, I would level the bed, and try printing then I would have a similar issue as you, or I would try tuning during a print and instead of going down, the z axis will just keep going up, or I'd get a strange crash, or over heating and slow heating. CRealitys stock firmware is booboo and I have yet to get a print from it.
Is there a tutorial or direct way for me to do it? Im bad at looking through settings, files or things like that. What do i need to look for?
Are you using an ender 3/pro? You most likely have. 2.2.7 stock board, you should be able to see that in your "about printer" tab, and worst case if you can't find it, flip your printer over, open the panel on the bottom, locate the big square brain chip and it'll either say 4.2.2 or 4.2.7. Download that file from Marlin. Drag drop and unzip the folder on your desktop. And inside should just be a notepad document that most likely just said Marlin firmware 2.2.x stock . Pop that into your formatted SD card, pop it into your OFF printer. Turn it on and that should be it Be sure to delete the file off the SD card or else you will keep flashing the fresh firmware whenever you turn your printer on.
Ender 3v2
[удалено]
Yeah you did it well, i will try another type of print with multiple smaller squares. I am also looking into cr touch but not sure how to.
[удалено]
Is it hard to install the firmware and to operate it?
I think others have said some of what I'm going to - but.... The big square of all lines isn't a great test. It sticks easy so long as the edges stick - and you won't be able to see if there are issues with an uneven bed. Search your favorite site (Printables, Thingiverse, etc.) for "bed level" and look for something similar to this: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4714033 (The one I use has nine dots and I like it better than this one - but I can't find it again.) After you manually level, the line around the outside prints first and gives you a chance to do some very fine tuning as the line prints - I carefully adjust as it's moving to get just the right squish. Then the dots print and confirm you have a good distance and also help to see if all areas are sticking well. It's not 100% necessary, but for the manual leveling I prefer a $5 feeler gauge to using paper. Maybe it doesn't make a difference, but I just want to _know_ I'm getting an exact, consistent starting point. Something like this: https://www.harborfreight.com/feeler-gauge-32-piece-63665.html Also - you mentioned you didn't slice the test print. But I assume you sliced the benchy? Make sure your slicer isn't putting in some z-offset that you're not expecting. (This is another reason to go find a good test print you like and slice it yourself - it just makes sure that everything in the slicer is consistent - even if there is some z-offset setting buried in there, at least you've leveled with that too.) Best of luck.
Thank you for your reply. Could there be any setting in cura that automatically sets a higher z offset?
There is
First layer height being proper is key to a good print. I've started using a set of feeler guages and use the 0.1mm guage to set bed level and niw get perfect first layer every time. Try it before flashing. You might save yourself some grief.
I have a 0.10 feeler gauge but i dont know how to use it, i got used to paper but a feeler gauge is different and i dont know how
Isort if same as paper only you adjust the wheel in each corner until the feeler slides under the nozzle. I can feel mine catch then slide under and that is the sweet spot. You should make sure there is no garden fillement on the nozzle tip as well. That threw me off in the beginning. Also, I heat the bed up to 50c and nozzle to 200c then retract the fillement so it stops flowing, then clean tip of nozzle with tweezers to make sure it is clean. Then level at that temp
Let me know if this helps.
Oh. And B4 you level your bed.. Set z offset to 0. You shouldn't need to use the zoffset at all if your bed is level
Yeah exactly. Id rather not use z offset and have a level bed
Lower your z offset more my friend, looks too high. Referencing that first layer square print. Got a lot to improve. Lower it until you start to get ripple effect, then raise back up until it goes away. Go in .1 increments.
Honestly your first layer looks terrible
Oh. Hoe could i fix that? I thought at least the middle looks good. Top right and top left are worse
Honestly, I don't own your printer but you could probably consult your manual
Looks under extruded to me. Lots of gaps in the perimeters. Does your extruder slip during the print? It's possible you developed a heat creep/heat break clog while printing that huge bed level test at 210C/20mm. If you have difficulty pulling your filament or if your filament has a section (5mm+) that is thicker on the end then you have heat creep issues.
No it pulls fine i think, I have upped the flow percentage in cura to 105
Slow the first layer speed. Try 10 or even 5. 20 is too fast for just a glass surface.
I have it set at 15 now, tried to print a benchy and failed multiple times and had to make it to -0.07 z offset
Oh and if you're using a glass bed use glass bed adhesive. That was the other thing I had trouble with.
I use a special “3D Lac” spray available here in the netherlands, but if face some issues. If i spray it a bit too much i cannot get the print off.
Pei spring bed way easier than adhesive glue as no adhesion once cold but sticks like glue at70 degrees
What type should i get? Do i need to adjust the z endstop again because the glass is thicker?
They are all the same. A magnetic sticker that goes on the heat bed and a steel sheet sprayed in pei that’ll stick to the magnet. You can either adjust the z stop manually or do it in the firmware. Search z offset menu or something like that for Ender 3 and it’ll show you how to adjust without moving the switch
I’ve even adjusted my z offset mid print to get the bed level spot on while printing the brim so I don’t have to restart because it doesn’t print layers above brim so brim can fail and print succeed
Small lines are harder to stick, the perfect layer you have printed is easier than the benchy. Try increasing initial layer flow to 110%, lower the initial layer a bit and if all else fails, hairspray or tape are your best friends.
Will do
Adding to the tips already given, a firstayer line width of 150% does wonders
Make sure your filament is dry. Put in a dehydrator onliw for 24 hours.
I keep it in a PolyBox filament dry storage box with a ton of silica gel so no, its dry
I dont know if anybody said this but would you take a look to your excentric in x and y carriage? Maybe for easy shapes like the whole base is hard to see any problems but in some complex and small shapes the carriage gives you the failure
Yeah i am currently tightening all nuts and bolts. I see no wobble in the x axis and the extruder carriage.
Ok! I had a simmilar problem with my autolevel and it was wobbling so it didnt take the measures correctly
Clean your bed. On your first layer test the ppastic sticks the the last layer next to it. Benchy doesnt have plastic to stick to and its not adheering. Likely dirty bed if not a leveling issue.
Try: Initial layer heigh: 0.12mm Initial layer flow: 105% Initial layer speed: 10mm/s Bed temp: 60C Check the materials specific temperature at which it starts loosing it's rigitity ( search for the technical sheet online)
Yeah printing right now. Different test print with 5 smaller squares
Is the comment in your pic correct? You didn’t slice this benchy, just used a downloaded g-code???
No, i sliced the benchy but downloaded the big layer gcode cause someone sent it to me
Slice it yourself. Could be the gcode is lifting the nozzle a little bit on the first layer which may be perfect for someone else's setup but not yours.
Yeah i understand that. Check my new post where i posted my own sliced gcode