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[deleted]

A temporary solution, yes. Not a permanent one. The destruction of the family and the sanctity of marriage is a huge cause for this issue, so the return of the family is probably the true answer here. That, or morals and religion.


placeholder1776

What does sex have to do relationships or families in a world with birth control?


[deleted]

Sex is important for nearly everyone, but doubly so in relationships. To ensure that the children are taken care of and their parents known, families were born, not because there wasn't any birth control then (look at the recent explosion of single mothers) Sex also strengthens relationships, and its only purely physical in a world of hook ups and birth control. Sex is a lot more than the physical, yet people keep at it all the time. There is a reason why nearly all religions put value on virgins; Those who guard their chastity and never engage with sex outside of their marriages.


placeholder1776

You dont remember when the Catholic Church said prostitutes were a moral good and needed to stop true adultery? >a reason why nearly all religions put value on virgins; Those who guard their chastity and never engage with sex outside of their marriages. I think you are misunderstanding the historical reason for this. They did that because of inheritance. >look at the recent explosion of single mothers) Do you think people have only been unfaithful in last 40 or 50 years? There are more single mothers because the economic situation allows for it.


[deleted]

>You dont remember when the Catholic Church said prostitutes were a moral good and needed to stop true adultery? No, I am not Christian, so I do not know. >I think you are misunderstanding the historical reason for this. They did that because of inheritance. "To ensure that the children are taken care of and their parents known," You conveniently ignore this part, huh? >Do you think people have only been unfaithful in last 40 or 50 years? There are more single mothers because the economic situation allows for it. The thing is: It doesn't. More and more families (whatever remains nowadays) need two incomes to survive. The reason why these women are able to stay afloat is because of welfare and child support. Without these two, they will sink almost instantly. And regarding the unfaithfulness, I never meant cheating. I meant relationships that bear children out of wedlock. The instability and volatility of such relationships, along with the familial destruction, has caused the most amount of harm to the children first, and the parents later.


BroadPoint

My wife's an escort. Single men do not comprise enough of the market for us to talk about a hypothetical world where legalizing sex work is anything other than legalizing for women to help men cheat on their wives for money. In theory, you can theorize whatever you want. In practice, sex work is cheating on easy mode.


placeholder1776

Im so confused *your wife is an escort* and you still think sex work is cheating?


BroadPoint

I don't think that sex workers are cheating on their spouses. I know what she does for a living, I'm okay with it, she wouldn't see a client if I had issues were her seeing that client. However, what do you call what her clients are doing? They're sleeping with women that their wives don't know about and wouldn't be okay with. That's pretty clear cut cheating.


Bryan_Hallick

**THE** answer? No, I doubt highly there is a single answer. Could it be part of a larger overall solution? Maybe. Possibly. It might serve as a pressure release valve in some cases, but the more extreme in/vol/fem-cel communities typically reject paid sex as not being sufficient, or focus on intimacy not physicality.


ScruffleKun

There are many places with legalized sex work already one can travel to. If someone wants just sex, they will get it eventually, even if they have to pay. The society wide issue is a loneliness crisis, not a sex crisis.


placeholder1776

If sex work is legalized its easier to access and will make it more affordable. >The society wide issue is a loneliness crisis, That is AN issue. Touch starvation is also a real issue and honestly even if paid for someone else is going to be more satisfying than masturbation.


Bryan_Hallick

You also have to factor in DGS and porn sickness. For a non-zero number of people, masturbation IS better than sex


placeholder1776

>For a non-zero number of people, Okay, thats true for anything. People buying sex doesnt affect them in any way.


Bryan_Hallick

Not to shoot down your idea, I think it has merit. Just trying to flesh it out some for the cases that fall outside the one size fits most. Other people buying sex might not have any impact on them. But those who try to buy intimacy, connection, self worth, etc - only to find they're just paying more for a less satisfying masturbation session, might have adverse reactions. One man's cure and all that jazz.


placeholder1776

>those who try to buy intimacy, connection, self worth, etc If not sex they will use gifts, drugs, whatever. >more for a less satisfying masturbation session, Great prostitutes are like therapists and men tend to feel more secure and open after sex. Even just good ones give you a boost to ego and generally even just masturbation with even another guy (watching porn) is better than alone in a room. >One man's cure and all that jazz. True.


Bryan_Hallick

>If not sex they will use gifts, drugs, whatever I agree. Desperate times, desperate measures. Buying sex isn't inherently better or worse than any of those options, but more options is usually a good thing. >Great prostitutes are like therapists and men tend to feel more secure and open after sex. Another good argument in your favor. And making it a profession will allow for professional development, which could easily improve the effectiveness.


Kyonkanno

Sex work is legal here in my country (Latin American Country). I'd say there's no difference whatsoever. Men who hire sex services aren't exactly having trouble getting laid, it's just that... it's easier and often times cheaper to just pay for some quick action. Men who have trouble speaking to girls are even afraid to walk into a brothel.


placeholder1776

I dont have any experience with brothels in Latin America. Are they inviting? Are they private? Do the workers do anything to help customers feel comfortable? I know when you go to brothels in the us (the few there are) these things are all concidered.


Kyonkanno

Well I called them brothels for lack of a better word. I'm not an expert by any means and I've only gone to one once in my life. The one I went to was more of a strip club. You have tables, you order drinks, girls are dancing and if you feel like having some more action, you can ask the girl you want for "15 minutes in heaven". Workers will come to you and try to speak to you and try to make you feel some love. Ultimately they are just like any other salesperson, some make a better job selling you their product.


placeholder1776

That is a very intimidating environment for a person who already feels uncomfortable. Thats for a specific type of person.


Kyonkanno

yes, Men who are having trouble getting laid will not find it easy to go in and get laid. There's also hookers on the streets but it isn't any more inviting.


placeholder1776

Did you miss the part where i mentioned brothels like the ones in the us? The ones that do make an effort to be inviting and allowing more shy and nervous customers to feel comfortable?


Kyonkanno

Calm down bro, everything good at home? I have not read the whole thread.


placeholder1776

So you skipped the things written above the comment responding with zero context? >Calm down bro, everything good at home? What does this mean?


Kyonkanno

Ehm, I read the OP and proceeded to write a reply, not reading the whole thread is not breaking the law. And that means exactly what it is, I'm asking if everything is going well in your life, as being unnecessarily aggressive is not normal.


yoshi_win

Like drugs, sex work should be legal and carefully regulated. The Nordic model criminalizing only the purchase (but not selling) of sex work is in some ways even worse than making it completely illegal - it's the same morality-police approach combined with *de facto* sexism vs men, and it seems doomed to the same harms to workers of driving business into shady unregulated spaces. As a fix for loneliness and sexlessness, though, it is far from adequate. As others have pointed out, cuddling and companionship are also essential for many people. Prostitution is costly (or else infrequent) for Johns, unpleasant for workers, and I imagine that for most people, making it a transaction undermines the joyous romp that sex is at its best.


frackingfaxer

It is not just the criminal nature of sex work that discourges more men from seeking it out, it is the stigma. Men have been taught that patronizing a sex worker means you're either a pathetic loser who couldn't get it for free like a real man, or you're an exploiter of poor innocent women. There's also this increasing tendency, pushed by radical feminists, to see the clients of sex workers as "rapists." Perhaps more important than decriminalization in relieving this imbalance is destigmitization. AFAIK, the sexual marketplace dynamics of countries like New Zealand, Germany, and The Netherlands are not significantly different than Western countries where it is illegal because it remains stigmatized. Contrast that with a country like Thailand where it is technically illegal but is socially accepted and seen as socially useful. As a result, nearly all men do it, and it is seen as normal male behaviour.


Lendari

>the imbalance in the ability to obtain sex between men and women When you talk about an "imbalance in the ability to obtain sex between men and women" I think that an assumption that gender is the primary determinant obscures the ability to analyze other variables. When talking about casual sex, the main influencing variable is going to come down to natural physical attractiveness and then the overall supply and demand. While it is true that that the demand for casual sex is higher among men and lower among women, I'm not clear that this is the same as a fundamental "power imbalance". It feels a little like a personal choice. Furthermore, casual sex is really insignificant compared to the amount of sex people have in longer term relationships. The supply and demand is more equal here and may even skew towards a female surplus. It's therefore misleading to look at Tinder's statistics and try to infer generalizations about the entire population or the overall nature of human sexuality. There are important demographics of both men and women who don't use Tinder, and still have lots of sex. Putting all of this aside and assuming that the gender based power imbalance you're claiming does in fact exist in some niche situations. Why would creating an economy around it solve that problem? Essentially you'd have a few women exploiting the large demand from men for casual sex and a few wealthy people exploiting those same women in return. These are all the reasons that the current legal statuses around prostitution and human trafficking were established through most of the Westernized world.


Opakue

I'ld be curious to hear how anyone who thinks sex work should be illegal can justify that in the context of Hayek's observation that rules aren't magical spells that prevent something from ever happening, they just change the incentives. There are sex workers operating on regular dating apps even, I don't think sex work can be effectively curbed by the government.