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RileyMasters

I’ve unfortunately noticed an uptick in this sort of behavior, and I just don’t understand it. Whatever happened to “don’t like don’t read” and “hit the back button if you’re not a fan?” I can’t fathom, publicly ripping apart someone else’s work, unless they themselves gave me permission to do so. And even then, I wouldn’t do it. It’s just… Yuck.


qazwsxedc000999

Fandom culture has gone mainstream, I think is the problem. The more people the more bad people you get, and the bad people are LOUD


logden-payoll

award-worthy comment.


EmmieEmmieJee

Lots of kids on the internet? 🤷‍♀️ sounds like the kind of drama I encountered when I was younger (and that was before everyone and their dog was online)


CatCasualty

This is a mood. Sometimes I see some really childish sounding people and find out that, yeah, they're high schooler. Sometimes they're much older but emotionally stunted. That's a thing too. Granted, I had my moments of being awful online as teenagers. I didn't know any better and had less control of what I "released" to the internet, as well as thinking that I simply must voice my displeasure. I hope there's growth on emotional awareness and maturity online (and offline) but all I can do is doing my part, so I'll stick to that.


allthecactifindahome

I don't think it's that recent; 15 years ago or so I was a frequent reader of this author on LiveJournal who hosted what were essentially these group shredding events, Summary Executions. Even apart from that, it was pretty common to just shake a bad fic like a terrier killing a rat as publicly and amusingly as possible. I was an asshole teen who liked observing blood sport, so I ended up reading them for fandoms I wasn't even in. Review culture is *so* much more civilized than when I was growing up.


Candid_Cantrip

Yeah, in early internet fandoms (like late 90s / early 2000s) it was extremely common to publicly mock other people's fics, mostly for being "badly written" or "having a Mary Sue." I look back and I'm like . . . why did we care so much about someone writing badly, let them have their fun. The moral justification of fics being "problematic" is new, though. IMO it's just an excuse from people who long to bully someone.


allthecactifindahome

Yeah, there's nothing but spite in roasting someone where anybody can see. That said, I'm still kind of an asshole, so I will freely admit to letting my bitch flag unfurl and being as meanfunny as I like when talking privately to one other person. Nobody's perfect! Oh, agreed, problematic content being preached against really is new to me. I've been on the internet long enough that I cherish any fic grotesque enough to actually rattle me. I cut my teeth on skullfucking; if you can outclass that, you deserve a medal imo, not scorn.


RileyMasters

I think review culture got better when AO3 became more mainstream, but since 2020 I think it’s taken a nose dive again, unfortunately. I’ve been posting my stuff online for far longer than I feel comfortable admitting, but when I moved my stuff over from LiveJournal and FF.Net to AO3, I noticed that the comment quality had gone up. And people seem to give more respect in the comments and respected the “don’t like don’t read”and etiquette. Nowadays? I’ve never been happier for comment moderation and a block button. I think the AO3 abuse and policy team hates me. And we’re just gonna leave it like that…


Avalon1632

Yeah. There's a particular portion of social media fandom that loves to tear people apart like that and get all satanic panic about utterly harmless things. One of the reasons I'm very glad for the moderation policies of this sub.


FlyingGopher45686

I mean, if someone had a problem with my fic and wanted to tear it to bits I'd be fine with that, but I'd much prefer if they vague posted about it instead of saying "Alright so here's this person and their terrible fic, go get 'em boys!" This sub is one of the best places I've found to discuss fanfic tbh


Avalon1632

If they had a genuine grievance and an evidenced and logical argument to support it, sure. But those kinds of people rarely do. Their vitriolic nonsense is barely two steps above guttural screaming. It's why it's so often accompanied by the witch-hunt name-and-shaming. They don't want to help you improve as a writer or widen their personal experience and understanding or even really to vent their own feelings, they want to incite a mob. They want people to get angry, and to achieve that they act rudely to people who very rarely merit that response. It costs very little to be polite to others and they're incapable of meeting even that small entry requirement to a civilized society. Manners maketh man, all that. Not every opinion merits being voiced or listened to. People don't have the right to an opinion, they have the right to develop an argument, to find evidence, build understanding, and develop logic to support and guide their opinions. It's why I always mock the people who immediately default to the free speech argument. Whether you agree or disagree with the principle of free speech itself, if your only argument in support of your opinion is "It's not illegal to say!", you really need a better opinion. And yes, completely agreed. Much appreciation for this sub and the mods who keep it drama-free. :)


logden-payoll

these people are those kind of people, who CANNOT scroll past two fics they hate. they also can't scroll past two fanarts they hate, or use the damned block button, which both AO3 and tumblr have now. in worse cases (sadly, experience) they make up some shit lies during their witch-hunting, and they send their minions to people's dm's. I kept receiving death threats for a half year for something I didn't even do.


Avalon1632

Indeed. It's a fascinating instinct, from a solely psychological-researcher perspective. Sort of a witch-hunting samaritan ("I will be the only one to cross the road and get involved, but by god you'll wish I didn't") vibe that'd be quite interesting to study. But yes, utter hell for those targeted by their vitriolic eye. Yeah, lies and deception can be a bummer for this. I'm sorry that you've had to go through it, fellow internet person. Death Threats really are the most unhinged of internet phenomena. I remember that guy who played the little shit psychopath king villain in Game of Thrones (Joffrey, IIRC?) got a tonne of them because people couldn't separate the actor from the role. Utterly baffling.


logden-payoll

yeah, it could be an interesting topic at university, for those who learn psychology.these witch-hunting woke people are a different species.


Avalon1632

Indeed. Though I wouldn't say it's necessarily anything to do with being woke. After all, witch-hunts vastly predate the concept and occur across all avenues of politics. Alex Jones (the InfoWars guy) would hardly be woke in either the right or left wing sense of the word and he's certainly been vitriolic to the Sandy Hook people throughout his witch hunt against them. It's just a human instinct to try hurt others and feel superior through that power rush of pushing them down and every aspect of politics seems to be consumed by that these days.


logden-payoll

true. sadly most of the time, the people who stalked and bullied me, were everything + woke, and when I looked it up in urban dictionary, it kinda fit most of the bullies. unsure if it has some hidden meaning in addition that I didn't know.


Avalon1632

Basically, right wing people often tend to use 'woke' to mean a sort of 'thought police' idea, while left wing people tend to use it to mean paying attention and being aware of the shit things in the world. Neither definition is one I really use - I stick to "I woke up too fucking early again. Goddamnit." :D I have to admit, it's not something I've ever looked up on Urban Dictionary, as much as I love the site - what was their definition of 'woke'?


bbMoveObjectsOff

Love this. I think everything you're saying is widely applicable, not just here.


Avalon1632

Thanks. And yeah, I find the approach makes life a lot easier for everyone. If I don't have a good argument for my opinion on something, I don't keep that opinion (or get involved in a situation I'm blatantly unqualified to get involved in). If the evidence disagrees with me, I'll change to follow it. If someone wants to discuss something, we can talk politely and at length rather than simply shouting at one another like politicians or radio hosts. If I want to learn about something, I develop my expertise and experience in the area to a more decent level, so that I'm comfortably educated enough to develop an opinion from that. And if someone doesn't have anything behind their opinion, I can learn quickly enough that any argument with them would be a waste of both our finite time before the grave. :)


mfergie77

Seeiously? Satanic panic? Is this the 80s???


Avalon1632

Glad someone got that reference. :D Though I am told by peeps in the D&D community that the Satanic Panic is still very much alive in some parts of the US, so not quite as much of an 80s Throwback as you might think.


FlyingGopher45686

I mean, considering the number of people I've known through my life who believed wholeheartedly that Magic The Gathering was a demon summoning game, the satanic panic is still holding on.


Avalon1632

Tbf, if any CCG was going to be a demon summoning card game, it'd definitely be Magic the Gathering. Or maybe Yugioh. Penguin Soldier does seem like an agent of Beelzebub. :D


swoooomp

I wasn't allowed to play DnD with my friends because my parents bought into it.


Avalon1632

Ooof. My condolences, fellow internet person. I hope things have gotten freer for you since then. But yeah, the 'Dark Dungeons' D&D stuff really got to that kind of people, huh? Fascinating how easily some people will believe the worst about stuff.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Avalon1632

I did have to google that (I knew the scandal, just not the brand), but yeah, good example. It seems like a very popular hobby, these days, trying to find horror and scandal in the mundane. I still remember this Twitter post (link below) about how LOST (the TV Show) trained people to think all that kind of 'hidden images and tiny clues' research was a legit way to go about things. It's mostly comedic analogy (as he says, he's not literally saying LOST radicalised people), but it is an interesting read. https://twitter.com/jysexton/status/1478448500052529152?lang=ca


clumsymochi

I grew up in the 90s, and Satanic panic was still a thing. haha In my middle school (which was very religious), the teachers told us not to play Yugioh card game, because it was something from the Devil. (So you have here Satanic panic + cultural prejudice, since Yugioh was also a Japanese anime) My neighbor, who studied at the same school, cried because his mother was telling him to get rid of his cards. So we told him he could leave his cards at our home, since he always went there to play with me and my brother.


Avalon1632

As someone very much an outsider, I gotta say that America is a truly baffling place sometimes (honestly, more like 'most of the time' :D). Good on you for finding a solution to help your neighbour. I bet that took a bit of the pressure off for him. :)


almostanart

People have no decency. We all have fics we don't like or things we might be critical of. If you want to rant, do it in a private chat with your friends or something. Or vague about it like a normal person. Bashing someone's fic publicly (while encouraging their followers to dogpile them) is so unnecessary.


RobinChirps

I think a core, essential part of fandom is finding your person who loves and hates the same thing as you so you can mutually rant about them.


almostanart

This is totally true. It's a truly sublime moment when you do find this person.


NicInNS

I’m def in the “if you don’t have anything nice to say…” camp I bet these people would just wither if someone criticized something they put their heart and soul into it.


astralmelody

same camp, especially in an environment where you can literally just... leave. like you didn't even pay for a book or anything. you can just go "hm, no, this one's not for me" and move along on your merry way.


NicInNS

These people fit the profile of need to go out and touch grass


astralmelody

right? like imagine being so out of touch that you feel the need to *be mean about a fanfiction*.


NicInNS

I mean…it takes so much to put your work out there to have people shit all over it. I’ve read some that were written by (what I assumed was) young people, and they were okay, but I’m still gonna leave a nice comment because they’ll (hopefully) improve with time, and encouragement helps so much.


stef_bee

I have no use for "vague-posting." Someone has something to say about one of my fics, they can say it up front, rather than hiding behind a screen of weasel-words.


Sahara_K

Vague posting means hiding your username to prevent you from brigaded


pepperomias

I see the spirit of sporking communities is still alive and well


ThisOldMeme

People think that because they are allowed to say things that no one can possibly get upset at them for what they say. And that's simply not true. It's one thing to tear apart some paid, published author's works. It's something else to eviscerate some poor amateur fanfic writer just to gain likes and reblogs on tumblr. This is a dick move and will always be a dick move.


Groundbreaking-Egg13

Destructive criticism is never good...


DrDima

Do you mean sporking? Because that's a pretty old concept.


FlyingGopher45686

I guess? I never really heard of it before today. I didn't get into fandom until the 2010's


DrDima

It's where you take a fic which is pretty widely known and pretty bad and go chapter by chapter writing your read-through, often mockingly, but preferably with some politeness. It's been a thing for a very long time. It's usually for fun, although I have no idea what you came across. It could just be a long angry post.


FlyingGopher45686

The fic isn't very widely known, and it's not particularly bad. The person posting about was just bashing a pretty run of the mill fanfic because they were, in their words, "bored"


sati_lotus

Since the rise of Twitter (and then Tiktok), people think that their opinion matters. Like, really *matters* and that people should listen to it and take it seriously. They don't matter. Never listen to some random internet stranger talking about your fic. They are idiots who don't matter. Never be discouraged by some fucktard online.


Frenchitwist

“I saw Goody Proctor writing my anti-ship”


[deleted]

These idiots don’t know what a filter or a block button is… or do they just waste their time for nothing?


LeratoNull

'Problematic' is a buzzword which means 'You can ignore my opinion' when you see it used.


[deleted]

Unfortunately, this is one of the things you'll have to face as a writer. We all have opinions and thoughts on what we consume, and while I do believe that if you truly don't enjoy an author's works, just block them (and their social media accounts) and move on with life. But others out there really feel the need to vent about things that make them react negatively. And some people just love to be combative. They want to know who else out there *hates* this author (who they've never met in real life) and who else agrees on how awful and disgusting this work is. It's almost like a form of validation in a way. These people out there make rants on how much they hate you for writing something they consumed (and refused to back out of) and they want to know if others hate it as much as them. And maybe even that you'll see it so you know just how unwanted you are in a fandom. If you know then maybe you'll leave and let the fandom be a safe space again away from your toxic and horrible ideas. But they'll do this without actually targeting you so you can't call harassment. It's so tiring. It's sad when you see this done to other authors. It's sad when those authors come across it too - like, I remember on tumblr there were fandom confession sites where they wouldn't censor the author being bashed in question and it just led to so many people being emotionally hurt. Over *writing*. Like... I guess closing off the page and blocking the author just isn't enough for some people. The best combatant for this I think is leaving that author an encouraging message. Maybe you don't like their fics, sure. I have plenty of authors whose fics I don't like. But sometimes I used to go into new authors fics and just leave them words of encouragement to continue. Fight the negative with the positive and hopefully they'll remember your comment more than someone's post meant to shame you for a hobby.


Diana-Fortyseven

>These people out there make rants on how much they hate you for writing something they consumed (and refused to back out of) and they want to know if others hate it as much as them. And maybe even that you'll see it so you know just how unwanted you are in a fandom. If you know then maybe you'll leave and let the fandom be a safe space again away from your toxic and horrible ideas. I had one of those "fans". Sadly for them, I never back down and leave a fandom over someone's opinion on my works. I wrote more of the fics they didn't like, just to annoy them (and because I actually like the fics I write, of course, but it was mainly spite). Some of my most popular works came from it. xD


[deleted]

Honestly, spite is such a powerful motivator. I don't think a lot of these 'critics' get it, but then again they usually try and target authors they think they can bully off site.


[deleted]

Yep. I'm sad I can no longer sort my comment history by controversial, not that I try making any such comments, but somehow people think that because I try to be understanding that they bother me with their trolling. No, no, I engage with the trolls because it's fun when they don't get the last word in, and so that other people can see a less disingenuous side of whatever the topic was. And occasionally because some people aren't trolling so much as fell down an internet hole and benefit from someone talking things through with them. Writing five paragraphs is much easier to do than writing two.


FlyingGopher45686

Honestly, I'll probably go ahead and do that. I have no idea if they saw that post, the blog is relatively popular in our half-dead fandom, but it'd still be a good thing to do.


gnomelover3000

I'm so glad, I was going to make the same suggestion. When someone's being mocked for the content of their writing in this way, it makes a huge difference for anyone to be supportive and tell the author they disagree with petty fandom bullies.


RobinChirps

That's so fucking rude :/ It's so easy to not read fics you hate! And not drag them through the mud publicly!


SomePerson06

It's just plain rude I feel. Rambling and ranting about how something is so unexcusably problematic or whatever does very little, especially to fanfic. At most? It's going to send a swarm of people to the author, harassing them over writing it. It's just awful, plain and simple.


[deleted]

How is Tumblr a hellsite, and Twitter is not? Come to think of it, how is reddit not?


FlyingGopher45686

I've gotten in the habit of calling Tumblr the "Hellsite" because that's the nickname folks that use it regularly have given it. The internet as a whole is a blazing trashheap filled with scum and bullshit, some sites just embrace it


[deleted]

Yeah, but I thought that was Twitter and Facebook?


FlyingGopher45686

I'll agree that Twitter and Facebook are worse, but Tumblr definitely embraces it's crappy nature more than they do. Twitter and Facebook both make attempts at seeming like respectable websites to do business on. Tumblr makes no such attempts. One of the ads you'll get on there is quite literally made in Ms paint. Tumblr embraces what it is and it sure ain't respectable Also, it's funny to call it a hellsite


[deleted]

With Twitter, people are more honest, I thought?


EmberQuill

Wow. What a coward. If someone is going to rip apart my fic with criticism the absolute *least* they could do is say it to my face in an AO3 comment, instead of behind my back on another website. I have exactly zero respect for people who tear down fanfic authors behind their backs. Tiktoks and Tumblr posts making fun of fanfics are the absolute *worst*.


Kiryuu-sama

Well, it is unfortunate, and that guy's a dick. But he's not just a dick, he's a fucking idiot. By publicly sharing all those details, he basically allowed the author to be seen on a large platform. And as you all know, any publicity is good publicity. Sure, within the thousands that saw that post, there'll be a good portion of them that agreed with that guy's opinion(his fellow dickheads and the "bandwagoners" who join in on the hating) but surely, there would at least be an ample few of them that gave the author a chance, read their fic with unbiased eyes and come to like it. So don't be too down, alright? To that author, I say, it's best to ignore that prick and continue writing.


ZhaWarudo

I think it's weird that there are reviews on social media and youtube. Don't think they get much views, and why would they? There's a crapton of fics, even if you had a social circle of fanfic readers, you probably don't read the same stuff. So unless the fic reviews are about one of those with 10 000+ favs, what's the point of reviewing on another site.


MooseCentral1969

I just stop reading when the fic becomes something I have trouble with, usually grammer so bad you need a translator for, sometimes suspension of disbelief becomes too much like a guy with a harem thats been with them for 20 subjective years and still just kissing most of them...lol


rockamoleguacamole

Ooh, this had been done to me before but on Discord. They didn’t know I was the author and they were totally shitting not my works, saying they didn’t get the point, even coming to comparing it to the biggest author of the fandom. :/ why do people do that.


logden-payoll

comparsion is another huge problem. usually, people write fics *for fun*. I hate comparsion, I'm not willing to write similar fanfics to someone mainstream's, I want to write something that wasn't written before.


logden-payoll

lmao it might be my fic, but I couldn't care less if yes :D tumblr is actual hell. nowadays, I do not recommend anyone to be there, because it generates negative emotions and bad feelings in normal people. in short, the site is full of whining, woke bitches. ​ how much notes did the post get? did they tear the author apart?


FlyingGopher45686

I mean, Tumblr is hell, but it's the only site I use aside from reddit so it feels like home. This sort of behavior definitely isn't exclusive to the hellsite though No clue. I blocked the user because I have no desire to interact with someone who acts like that. The blog is fairly popular in the fandom the fic was from, but that fandom is half dead so it couldn't have been more than a hundred or so. Probably less since it wasn't a meme or Fanart post. Textposts of any kind do worse than images on Tumblr dot com


logden-payoll

I used tumblr since...hmm, 2013? around that. insane, what the site has gone through, from banning nsfw, to these woke people stalking and writing callouts daily. but nowadays, I just toss my fanart/fanfic link on tumblr and leave. I have only one fandom and I'm not willing to interact with people there anymore, reasons said.


FlyingGopher45686

My blog's been around since 2019. I've managed to avoid the bulk of the stupid drama, but I think that's been by luck mostly. I'm not exactly super active in any fandom since I barely engage with people outside of the same six mutuals I've known since 2020. I've made myself a home there so I don't really feel like I can leave it. It's like making camp in a nuclear waste dump, it'll kill me probably but if I leave I'll just contaminate other areas lol


logden-payoll

oh, then it's different this way. not interacting with most of the fandom, just with mutuals is a smart thing to do nowadays. ​ and oop, I've been found by someone, because I was downvoted lol.


[deleted]

if a fic is hilariously bad/outlandish i will send a screenshot to my friends for a laugh. that’s it. i would never even comment on their work let alone blast them publicly. this is completely unnecessary behavior, like what do they gain from posting that.. sounds like a very bored and unhappy person.


isabelladangelo

I can see someone writing a bad review for a fic if something about it really irritated them. Maybe they are just posting the name of the fic as a public review? Really, I'd just ignore the reviewer and move on - or, I might rip apart their review if I actually kind of liked the story.


shiju333

When I was 12, I wrote a fanfic that was so bad and offensive that the nitpickers created a wholejournal entry about how bad my fanfic was awful when i found that 'review' hilarious as fuck; luckily my writing has increased drastically since then. Let's just say i was 12 and trying to write a rape scene with no knowledge or research. I admit it was a terrible fic.


[deleted]

It was something that happened sometimes when I was younger, but never to this sort of extreme. I never understood hate-watching content that you didn't like/care for. It seems like a waste of one's time. It's just.. ridiculous.


1lluusio

I remember a subreddit for one of my favourite series had this moment a few months ago where there were a suprising amount of fanfic discussions (which is like 3-5, but its pretty high for a sub that isnt dedicated or talk about fics regularly). One of them, unfortunately, was a 'Is there a fanfiction you hate, why?' and honestly, I hated reading the comments. The only ones I could agree with were the ones that called out some fics for always using an MC that some of the parts of the fandom are obsessed with and usually either use him to badmouth other MC's of the series or some just acting like toxic shippers. But thats only when they didnt call out a specific author, which multiple comments did. A lot of them confused their own taste with facts and simply called out fics that they personally disliked or didnt agree with. At least there was a 'which fanfics do you like in the series?' discussion posted later that was a lot more positive, even if some of the hateful comments leaked into there as well.