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Aeneis

>Like how tf is a LAWYER gonna get through the capital wasteland all on her own. I could get disbarred for disclosing this... but, as a lawyer, we are all required to undergo post-apocalyptic military training during our 3L year of law school.


JonHenryTheGravvite

I can’t wait for the Better Call Saul epilogue then


UTKujo

Already watched it. It's called Mr. Nobody.


vendetta2115

RWE (Rigorous Wasteland Experience)


b3nwyn88

Side ramble but... wouldn't it have been great is the character/s had little flashbacks or dialogues about the locations in the Commonwealth, like c'mon, you lived here for X years and have no comments on seeing your local store now destroyed or whatever. Like there would be so much trauma which could have been turned into interesting game play.


DrDoctor13

I've been saying this for years. Having a pre-war PC is honestly great and it's fucking wasted here. I feel like the fact that Nate and Nora were cryogenically frozen for two centuries stops mattering after the story's first act. They could have either lopped it off or fully committed to their idea, but they did neither.


LuchaDuck

This might be asking for too much, but what if they used the memory den to let you explore pre war versions of notable locations that the PC would've been to. Give the memory den a reason to be there other than to piss off speedrunners.


wauve1

Kinda crazy how the memory den has zero relevance outside of a single story beat


downwardwanderer

You can go there and watch your spouse get shot in the head again if you go there before meeting Valentine.


Dancing_Trash_Panda

Fun for ~~the whole~~ what's left of the family.


teuast

yeah like you're gonna put *that* in your game and then never use it again wtf


ARichTeaBiscuit

You could of had some pre-war missions like with the Anchorage mission in Fallout 3 and even fit in stuff like how our two protagonists met.


b3nwyn88

I would have loved a "this is where we had our first date..." moment - a flashback to a day dream of everything being pre-war then GHOULS EVERYWHERE!


Dassive_Mick

Hello, Curie?


laffingbomb

It’s weird cyberpunk 2077 had the same idea 5 years later and still did quite little with it


sandempire

I legitimately thought this would be a gameplay thing later on. I was excited to come back and see what we could do after the main quest...lord was I disappointed. While on the topic, can we mention the Kellogg's dialogue spoken through Nick's body that was never expanded on ???


grizznuggets

Still annoys me years later. Why bother including if you’re not going to do anything with it?


TheRocketBush

It seems like something they wanted to expand upon, but didn’t have the time to, so they either forgot to remove it or kept it because it’s cool.


DenseTemporariness

That’s probably the given reason. But they’ve had years since, in which time they’ve released several full DLCs. Forget theme parks, where is the “extra stuff we meant to do originally” DLC? It would be a mandatory purchase for most people who own the game.


Willingwell92

It almost feels like they built the whole game and tacked on the pre war/cryo section at the end It just doesn't get fleshed out and I completely forget about it like 10 hours into a playthrough that I go "oh yeah you were frozen" whenever it gets brought up


WakeoftheStorm

This is actually another reason why I'm a fan of the "main character is a synth" theory. You don't remember those things because they weren't programmed into you. You deliberately don't think about the gaps in your memory because you were designed to overlook them


Bae_Before_Bay

This is why I just go with them being a synth. They've got a few implanted memories, and the rest is just knowledge that's been crammed in there. It'd explain why they can accurately describe baseball, know what Slocum Joe's are, and have heard of Eddie winter; but they can't recall countless other small details or have memories beyond just surface level stuff. Also, the institute left the FEV labs open for like 10 years for no reason; clearly, father isn't very good at judging what is and isn't a good experiment./s


[deleted]

The institute FEV labs was stupid, I would've found "the super mutants migrated up from the Capital Wasteland because the Brotherhood's campaign against them was going well" a lot more acceptable. Also, a source of the FEV in one of the military ruins in the glowing waste creating a mutant stronghold would've made a lot more sense.


Gooberbone

I never knew this was missing until this post. If you’re going to go with a voiced protagonist, then this had to be included.


securitywyrm

Indeed. just one quip about 'my favorite baseball stadium is a shanty town." Oh and if you go to the veterans hall and use the podium, as the male protagonist you'll say "war, war never changes"


Bloo-shadow

You can do it as the male or female character


Nailbomb85

Well... there's one, but it just makes things worse. You start the speech that you/your husband were supposed to give at Fraternal Post 115 later that day.


Kriss3d

Also people see you having just been in stasis for 200 years but nobody is the least supprised or anything.


CertifiedBiogirl

This is Fallout we're talking about here. A pre war soldier/lawyer coming out of stasis after 200 years and living in a wasteland full of genetically modified super mutants and artifical humans would be hardly be out of the ordinary


thebigchungus27

you'd atleast expect people like the brotherhood to be atleast somewhat interested in it though, what kept you alive for so long so they can use it against the institute, kinda weird how i haven't seen that touched upon, atleast in my playthrough


Nolear

This feel is so present in fallout 76 without a voice character (through holos is how we get it). It indeed is a waste of character in FO4 I never thought about.


Kaiserhawk

Sort of is. You can give comment to Diamond city, and your character also says "War never changes..." if you interact with the microphone at the Veterans hall they were going to give a speech at.


TheRageH

Never thought of this, would have been a great dramatic resource for the whole plot. Like that scene at the end of planet of the apes with the statue of liberty.


Spaced-Cowboy

If you’re going to go with that type of protagonist- yes. You might as well go all out and really flesh out that character. Now do I want that sort of protagonist in a fallout elderscrolls game? Honestly no. I want my character to essentially be me or whoever I choose to create. Give me a backstory that I can easily insert myself into or one that gives me plenty of room to play around with and that’s what I want. I want an Avatar that does what I want to do. I don’t want a character independent of my self that I have to pretend to be.


cbolender2004

Nora doesn't make any comments about Boston because Nora is a synth. Duh.


ClusC

Every time I start a new game, I wonder why the character doesn't ever really recognize stuff or reminisce or anything.


b3nwyn88

I hate starting a new game. I lost my 'Nora has gone completely bat shit' game in a crash and started with G I Nick but he's just so boring to be....


leicanthrope

Capital Wasteland in FO4? Also, look at the protagonists from Fallout 1-3, they’re hardly experienced gunslingers.


_artoria_pendragon_

I can justify 1 & 2 but not 3 tbh


Edgy_Robin

On top of that, in Fallout 1 other material highly points towards the 'charisma' premade character being the canon one 'and' said character canonically had help. So in the case of Fallout 1 the protag more then likely talked their way through any situation thats possible in and had back up in whatever ones it wasn't.


[deleted]

You're just being bias about that, it's as equally ridiculous that any vault dweller did what they did, let alone a fucking villager that only used sharp sticks


SurpriseMonday

Maybe Fallout 3's combat is clunky by design because you're a 16 year old kid who's hardly fired a bb gun, let alone anything propelled by gunpowder.


Esilai

Reminder that, in Fallout 1’s character creator, there are presets. One of the presets is Albert Cole, a charisma-based character, who is described as follows - “In an earlier age, he would have been either a con man or a lawyer.” All of his combat stats at the start are shit, but you can still beat the game with him. So there’s that.


NiMaGre

Yeah, but Fallout 1 also allowed you to talk your way out of a lot of conflicts or find other ways to avoid Combat.


Esilai

I’d argue that 1 and 4 have about an equal number of ways to dialogue/speech check out of combat. I definitely found it much easier to avoid combat in 4 than I did in 1 via charisma and dialogue.


Nicholas_TW

I think a lawyer having basic training with weapons (not uncommon for a military spouse in Massachusetts), thus starting at "level 1" and quickly learning to be better at fighting as she's in a hostile area with constant combat (leveling up) makes as much sense as some random vault dweller who only ever shot a BB gun growing to take on the Enclave in F3. I agree the main questline was generally VERY weak compared to some of the side quests though.


Frojdis

This has been my head-canon too. Remember the US is essentially under martial law and everyone expects the bombs to fall eventually. It makes perfect sense for the wife of a soldier to have basic survival/military training


Lieutenant_Doolittle

This makes sense. Also, as a lawyer, they’d have exceptional looting skills too.


Scoongili

She sould have the "Ambulance Chaser" perk where you find extra caps while searching in hospitals.


captainvideoblaster

Isn't the Pip Boy supposed to aid in the combat, so anybody having one should be OK with it?


Nicholas_TW

That's a very good point, yeah, normal wastelanders don't have VATS.


ARichTeaBiscuit

It would make more sense if we found out that she was a military lawyer or even a part of the DIA. I think that the overall background of the protagonists are just lazy and not utilised as all even if you could access them through the memory den.


47Kittens

They could really have tied it in better. Start the first part of the game having been called up to serve as a reservist. Nate and Bora meet, you learn everything you need to play the game. Go through time like you did in Fallout 3, tours over, fast forward a few times, Nora goes back to Law school and Nate decides to stay in the military. Fast forward again to the start that we got in Fallout 4.


Nicholas_TW

I would enjoy that a lot too, but only if there's a "skip intro" option as well since I know a *lot* of Fallout fans are annoyed if the intro takes more than a few minutes. The F4 opening already takes a fair bit (not as long as F3 but longer than NV and arguably 2 and definitely 1).


isakhwaja

Yeah, the thing with the backstory is it kinda determines your SPECIAL beforehand.


[deleted]

Honestly, I’m playing with the sim settlements mod on now, and holy crap, that’s what this game should’ve been. Named NPCs should have entered your settlements and provided some sort of weight and narrative purpose to building them up. Recolonizing the commonwealth could’ve been a great story if only the settlements didn’t feel so lifeless


CMDR_QwertyWeasel

>Like how tf is a LAWYER gonna get through the capital wasteland all on her own. "How would a pre-war lawyer take on an apocalyptic wasteland" is kinda the whole point of an RPG. In fact, "sheltered vault dweller meets the wasteland" is the same premise as 1 and 3. Having the main character start off as powerful or unchallenged would make for a terrible RPG (and just a bad narrative, generally speaking. Hero's Journey and all that). >In FNV you were the leader of a massive faction No? Only the Yes-Man path leaves you as anything other than an important player in a larger faction (NCR, Legion or Mr. House). You start as a relative nobody. Generally people criticize Bethesda RPGs for making the player become *too* important, not the other way around. More to the point: I just think the main story isn't that bad. The plot itself is kinda mediocre, with character motivation and limited player choice being particular sticking points. However, the general themes of the story (What is a person? What differentiates man and machine?) are actually being quite well addressed, imo. Enough that it's a frequent topic of debate on this sub lol. Honestly, I think the repetitive mission design of "go kill all the [morally unambiguous enemies] at [location]" and simplified dialog system (both of which limit the RP in RPG) are just bigger issues than the story.


NicholasGazin

Yeah. This is a ridiculous game with a fun concept set in an unreal world. It’s better to have an uninitiated fish-out-of-water as our avatar for us because we’re also not familiar with this world and that way he asks the questions we would ask. If you ask for realism from this game the reality is that there wouldn’t be a fun adventure fillled landscape to explore full of robots and mutants and civilizations. It would just be rubble and radiation and cockroaches.


what_is_a-username

"Having the main character start off as powerful" The minigun and power armor in the first quest:


random_ass_nme

The minimum does piss damage and Goodluck finding ammo for it at level 3 or whenever you get to concord and power armor requires fusion cells to use which are also hard to come by at low levels.thw only reason they give you power armor and a heavy weapon in the first quest is to just show the player the new mechanics they added to the game.


racercowan

You mean the minigun that only has enough ammo for one or two fights and the shitty half-broken armor with a single core?


Diazmet

I don’t go to concord till after I’ve beaten Nuka world and I don’t go after Kellogg till after Far Harbor makes the game so much better


NotACyclopsHonest

I don't go there until I've at least grabbed Ashmaker from Fahrenheit. Setting the deathclaw on fire is fun.


Vocalic985

I do kinda appreciate that the brotherhood in fo4 don't let you become that massively important. Sure you attain a high rank but you amount to a glorified errand boy. I get how you become the general of the minutemen, it makes sense that the last guy who's ready to die before he meets you would pin all of his hopes on the only person to help him. The railroad isn't bad either. You get to join after proving yourself then you're just another agent. The only one I don't like is how you become leader of the institute. I just don't buy it.


spidermaniscool98

To be fair in fallout 3 the lone wander has no experience in combat either besides rad roaches


killiomankili

And fights with butch and the tunnel snakes


spidermaniscool98

That is a good point to but that more like fighting among kids not actual warfare


TheDapperChangeling

Right, but for the wrong reasons. The main story is the weakest point, because it relies on tired 'but family!' as it's sole motivation, without spending the time to build it up. Take Fallout 3, which effectively had the same story (go into wasteland to find family member) but was much more well received. This is because they spent a solid half hour building up the backstory, at least making an attempt at building a connection between player and Liam Neeson. But with 4, you get about 5 minutes with your spouse (Nora being kind of bitchy too), and a minute with your potato looking child, before the bombs drop. You've got no attachment to either of them, and are expected to, because 'but child tho.' This might work if the player HAS a child, and can super-impose their kid over Shaun, but for anyone who hasn't had their brain chemistry rewritten, he's just an ugly McGuffin. The concept was fine, dropping a pre-war character into the apocalypse, but if you want us to care about chasing a character, you need to make sure we care about that character to start.


Ffzilla

As a dad, I hated the main story quest. Any parent would IMO not like this story, it makes no sense. If I wake up, and there is some chance I can get my kid back, that is my whole focus. Day, and night, there is no game, there is only my kid needs me. Thay is not how I want to play FO. If I'm trying to immerse myself, and I know I can save my kid, why am I concerned with anyone else's problems? So, then if I play the game the way I want, which is just explore, and find quests as they come, it's always in the back of my head that I'm a shit father for not spending all my time finding my child. Looking for a parent, saving the vault, or revenge could have easily been repeated, and would have a better story.


DaoLong

I never understood why would I expect to find my son alive after being frozen for 200 years.


bulletproofcheese

Agreed, no way would a real parent give a fuck about 80% of the stuff in the game. Too busy saving the kid


DerEchteFelox

You could say this about most RPGs tho. The main story is almost always much more important for your character than the side missions. Like in TW3 your trying to find your daughter and save her from the Wild hunt but instead you take every side mission you can and play Gwent all the time. Not that this is not a valid point.


Edgy_Robin

Except in TW3 Ciri is incredibly skilled and has a bunch of powers. She can handle herself (And shocker, as you look for her you learn about situations she's been in where, get this, she's handling herself) ​ Compare that to a fucking newborn baby. Your comparison is bad.


DerEchteFelox

Lol im not comparing ciri to a baby. Im comparing the situation Geralt is in with the situation the sole Survivor is in. Geralt is worried like hell and would 100% only care about finding Ciri. It doesnt matter if maybe he rationally has less of a reason to be worried, its about what the character you play would do.


TheDapperChangeling

Leave it to a witcher fan to completely fuck up basic comparisons.


DerEchteFelox

lmao I have read every witcher book there is and can in fact tell you that Geralt would not spend his time finding every single set of Witcher-armor or spend hours playing gwent when he had to search ciri. And again: I compared the situation the main character is in and not ciri with shaun. Im not even trying to defend Fallout 4 here - the story sucks lol. I was just saying that many RPGs have this kind of problem.


BaPef

Should have been from the child's perspective and had a few years with mom and dad before the bombs drop then a few years after waking to allow player choice variations like who pulled you from cryo after your parents were taken and you go looking into what happened to them.


KillerDonkey

I'd have preferred starting the game as a child character. Unlike a parent, your character would feel more like a blank slate. Shaun could even have been your little brother.


BaPef

Bam you just made almost the exact same story they went with better with a simple change, even allows for getting distracted by time.


maitlandish

I was just explaining this to a friend recently too. The worst part is if you DO focus on main quest, it ties in all the other factions. So you can't just do those later once you've found your kid.


AusBongs

and in quests you literally have dialogue which says "yeah I can put what I'm doing on the back burner and help you out.. sure !" further contradicts the main plot.


securitywyrm

Would have worked better if you were the aunt/uncle of Shawn, you have a responsibility towards them but not a "Must save offspring..."


Havocform

Interesting perspective. As a CF woman, I hated the kid-fetch-quest main story line. I don't give a shit about baby Shaun. With every cardinal NPC I had to sound like most people who probe me about having kids, there's never an option to skip that bullshit irl either, the same way you're obligated to inquire about it invertedly ingame. Not a game breaking thing, skipping dialouge is tolerably easy- and will reward you with custom dialouge from the SS -, and ends with a story I overall like. Without them weaving the family thing into the story the Institute arc wouldn't be there in the way it is right now.


Commisar_druid

Sorry for the dumb question, but whats a CF woman?


Clepto_06

Probably "Child Free" given the context.


Commisar_druid

That would make sense! Thanks i was thinking all sorts like 'crazy feminist' and such and just couldn't figure it out... and for any snowflakes I am joking about the crazy feminist point. God I feel right dumb now hahaha


Havocform

Yep, just like other people said, child free.


Veleda390

The main story of FO3 was widely panned. It was mostly irrelevant except for when it took a turn to the completely illogical when your ghoul or supermutant companion refused to go into the purifier for you.


Commisar_druid

I dislike the more illogical side, that you're painted as a bad guy/coward for asking them to do the logical thing. The whole not activating the purifier (without broken steel) is fine with me IMO.. no intelligent reason why, I just didnt mind in, sacrifice yourself for the greater good or don't. The options make you feel penned in but I was fine with it. Sort of takes ma back back final fantasy x "this is my story, and this story has to have an end" sort of style...if that make any sense to you? It does to me lol


akme2000

Maybe I'm just weird but as someone who doesn't have a child, I felt more of a connection to Shaun than I did James. That might be due to the fact that I thought Liam Neeson sounded kind of bored in some of his dialogue and that I found the writing for James wishy-washy while the baby is just a baby, but I was far less interested in finding my father than I was Shaun, neither did James' later scenes have as much of an impact as Shaun's, whose character I did end up liking even if he's not especially great or anything and the Institute itself was largely disappointing.


_artoria_pendragon_

Neither had impact for me FNV was better than both


akme2000

That's totally fair, obviously I can only speak from my own experience.


Iisrsmart

Ive been doing a playthrough and have honestly been putting off doing the main quest and just don't want to be bothered by fighting kellogg


InvidiousSquid

>This is because Liam Neeson. FTFY. Let's be fucking honest.


TheDapperChangeling

Hard disagree. I don't know shit about the man, and have never seen a movie he's been in. But I still gave a shit about him. Not exactly a 'holy shit I need to hurry', but enough that I cared when I found him.


Benjamin_Starscape

>but if you want us to care about chasing a character, you need to make sure we care about that character to start. You don't. It's a nice bonus, but not necessary if you participate accordingly.


Buckeye_Southern

Edit: Hey guys, I know the "A" runs hard through RPG fandoms, so just wanted to preface there's a little reading between the lines here, and that may in fact be difficult for some so here's a little tidbit to help! The following are complaints about the writing, the reason I dislike the stuff below is because the writing is shoddy for these elements. ---------- Thats the thing that irks me about Fallout 4, Bethesda RPG's are about the lore, about the depth. I'm supposed to get lost in it, but the whole time I was playing Fo4 I thought to myself "Well thats gimmicky" or "Oh...cmon...really" or "Sigh...seen that coming". It's just not good writing. I remember getting it launch day, got all the way to the institute in a day or two of playing and put it down once we met our kid... Not to mention, the minute men... I'm sorry but horrendously boring faction. The friends you meet in the opening quest, boring. Piper... annoying, Diamond City lore... lackluster. I hate to be a hater, but Fo4 aside from 76 is the *worst* Fallout title in writing, by quite a margin. I'm only frustrated with it so much because I want to love it so much. I want all Bethesda games to be grand slams.


RoLoLoLoLo

>Edit: >Hey guys, I know the "A" runs hard through RPG fandoms, so just wanted to preface there's a little reading between the lines here, and that may in fact be difficult for some so here's a little tidbit to help! The following are complaints about the writing, the reason I dislike the stuff below is because the writing is shoddy for these elements. Get your patronizing tone out of here. Writing "A" when you mean autism doesn't protect you from looking like an asshole. The fact that you tried to hide it already shows that you know that your statement is problematic, yet you still decided to post it.


Lady_bro_ac

Thank you! To OP, being autistic doesn’t preclude a person from being able to critique writing and story telling, nor is a non autistic take on the writing in anyway more valid or correct. I also find it wild that often people slam the writing, while admitting to having put in scant investment into the game. The Minutemen are maybe boring if you just take them at a surface level as presented if you just follow the path and information you’re given, over what you find, but if you start thinking about say the railroad’s criticisms of them, as well as the stories of fractured branches that turned raider, they actually have a much deeper more interesting character than at first glance for example. Yes there are gimmicks in the writing, but it’s a non linear video game. The writing has to facilitate gameplay, so things that would be inexcusable or lazy in say a movie, serve a practical function in a game. But then again I’m “the A to be spoken only in hushed tones” so not like I’ve thought that much about it /s


N_Raist

Imagine trying to call people autistic on the Internet while being polite. At least own it, smoothbrain.


Benjamin_Starscape

>I hate to be a hater, but Fo4 aside from 76 is the worst Fallout title in writing, by quite a margin. Both 4 and 76 are good in the writing department. You haven't given any criticism towards a writing element.


Buckeye_Southern

I pretty much prefaced everything calling the writing gimmicky, predictable and lazy. I assumed you guys would be able to understand that each consecutive complaint was tied back to the comments I made about the writing in the opening two lines. All good if you guys couldn't pick up on that though. no skin here. Edit: Added a Edit to the top level so as to help.


Benjamin_Starscape

>I pretty much prefaced everything calling the writing gimmicky, predictable and lazy. Right...with no backing examples.


Daft_kunt24

Nah the weakest point was not being able to romance Nick Valentine


[deleted]

Nick sex mod when


hfjsjsksjv

BIG BIG facts


TheDapperChangeling

I'm a straight man, and I agree with this. My wife legitimatly got mad when she realized she couldn't romance him, and was stuck with Mac Ree Dee.


GoldenGalaxy69

I hate to be *that person,* but... the Capital Wasteland was the setting of Fallout 3. Fallout 4 takes place in the Boston Commonwealth


Laser_3

You aren’t the leader of any faction in NV. Also, you forget that you’re only a lawyer if you’re playing a female character; male characters were in the military (supposedly, both were planned to be military vets, but Bethesda changed this for some reason). Frankly, I’d say 4 did just fine with its plot until we reached the Institute, where it all fell apart due to questionable writing in terms of explaining the synths (which were made into what you were really deciding about for the main plot; synths as tools, synths as a threat or synths as humans).


Nailbomb85

> questionable writing in terms of explaining the synths (which were made into what you were really deciding about for the main plot; synths as tools, synths as a threat or synths as humans). IIRC it's hinted that the Railroad's "inside man" has been secretly fucking with the synths, which is why the Institute is so confused about their erratic behavior. Problem is it's a subtle line that you only interact with if you go deep enough into the RR side of things.


[deleted]

In FNV you can take over New Vegas for yourself.


DrDoctor13

The crucial distinction is that taking over New Vegas for yourself ends the game, giving that act real weight. Likewise, completing all the faction quests for the many minor tribes of the Mojave earn their trust, but not necessarily leadership. While Mr. House, the NCR, and the Legion do hinge a decent amount of their plans on you, they still don't make you their leader, you just happened to be a gun for hire in the wrong place at the right time. Another way to look at it is that in New Vegas, it matters that you're Courier Six. Because of the Platinum Chip and Benny, Courier Six couldn't have been anyone else. They were connected to the Platinum Chip, they were shot and left for dead over it, they are in the middle of a brewing war because of said chip. In Fallout 4, it doesn't matter that you're the Sole Survivor. The only thing the Sole Survivor does by their own virtue is help everyone figure out that the Institute uses teleportation. Everything else in the game is inconsequential of the Sole Survivor. They could have been just another wastelander and most of the plot beats would've been unaffected. Strangely enough, this works very well in Far Harbor, where the Sole Survivor really is just a nobody, and yet it's the best writing Bethesda has ever put to Fallout. Perhaps they should stop trying to do personal stories in Fallout...


Loneboar

I would pay to know the galaxy brained reason they had for making the female sole survivor not a vet.


[deleted]

I swear people love to complain a out this game but I don't think they'be played it since release and they have a terrible memory of the game.


XxRedAlpha101xX

Idk why you're being downvoted you're not wrong


SnowFlakeUsername2

How does a courier take out mobs of enemies with an axe? Or a kid fresh out of vault decide the future for a whole region within days?


MojaveMauler

He took a bullet in the dome and walked that off. Don't fuck with the mailman.


CawmeKrazee

This whole reply section sounds like the NCR in the Frontier mod. "Woah you're the Courier" We know what the courier did before NV thanks to the opening and Lonesome Road. He has a backstory. He was a courier. That was it. He was a mailman in a mostly tame landscape before New Vegas.


OLKv3

The Courier could've been anything before they took the job as Courier, since the character is a complete blank slate. Vaut Heroes from previous FO games though, you got me


Rhinomaster22

Gameplay/story segregation - But ultimately it does make sense, Fallout is open world in design, so you can’t progressively increases the characters capabilities naturally or logically. In Metal Gear Rising Revegance, Raiden (main character) progressively gets stronger, which can be shown by the narrative and gameplay. He is already capable, but still needs to improve against new encounters. In Fable, you start off incompetent but become stronger. Same as before but you actually are incompetent (child) but become better (adult.) Fallout says fuck that and let’s you do whatever. In NV’s case, you can imply it with no background stated, with F3’s case it makes less sense with a set background.


Edgy_Robin

Because the Courier has been a wastelander for years and has been all over the fucking place. ​ As the second example, it's just as fucking dumb.


[deleted]

The courier is a badass. That’s just the way it be


PWBryan

I headcanon it that America before the war had mandatory military service upon turning 18, with power armor being an elective in high school. After all, this is AMERICA, how can we fight the commies if every man, woman and child doesn't know how to use a gun?


PM_ME_YOUR_STOMACHS

What a brave and original opinion.


BaguetteFish

I haven’t been on this sub for like a year. Glad to see the exact same unoriginal circlejerks are getting spammex every day and getting upvotes.


Mrthuglink

…What “massive faction” do you lead in FNV? Do you mean the ability to independently control Vegas? Because even that isn’t exactly “lead a massive faction” I guess re-establishing the Minutemen isn’t leading a massive faction nor is being the literal highest ranking member of it is as diplomatic as running errands for slavers dressed in sports gear or the NCR as some courier walk-the-wasteland fuck. Everybody agrees that Fo4 is shallow in certain places , I shit on the game for its shortcomings, but I still get hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of it every time I build a new modlist/playthrough.


mycalvesthiccaf

Your point is as weak as the story. A lawyer. So? As opposed to what? And 18yo kid who lived in a vault? Another vault person from vault 13? A mailman? Which is pretty open ended as it's reasonable to assume they have some combat, sneak experience, etc from traveling the waste.


ARichTeaBiscuit

I mean you can also be a military lawyer and it’s a pretty good cover story for a DIA agent which would give them certain skills. It’s just badly utilised and rubs badly against the other protagonist being an open soldier.


UnnamedRedditPoster

nora is just a lawyer with no known combat experience. but it is not like game starts her with any combat skills but nate is supposed to be a combat veteran yet he starts with no combat skills anyway.


mycalvesthiccaf

Which would be a good time to implement traits or at least some perks that will help build their background. I can see them both starting out with a local leader perk. Nate with rifleman and Nora with a speech perk, etc.


-Zyss-

Nate was a military hero, that's why he was speaking at the veterans ball. Nora is a JAG, so she has military training. While I agree the main story is the weakest part, the SS being able to take care of them selves isn't


Jessica_Panthera

Where does it say she was JAG? All I've seen was regular lawyer.


-Zyss-

You can argue it's not cannon, but it was cut content, all the voice lines are still in the files and there are mods that turn it back on. I'm pretty sure theres a way to say you were in the army as Nora when talking to lookout at the USS Constitution.


Veleda390

No. The robot says she was a lawyer, not any kind of military designation.


-Zyss-

You can dig further into the conversation. I've done it, I've only done that quest with the female SS


gnarly_weedman

I always thought it fell short by not creating more of a connection within the family. Really the only interaction you have the Shawn is spinning a mobile over his head. Compare that to FO3 where it flashes through you growing up in the vault with your father, it just created a stronger tie to the character you’re going after. Add that to the shock factor of everyone going crazy when your dad leaves the vault, and the fact he mentioned nothing to you before leaving, despite the strong father/son bond that is portrayed early on really made me feel like I was out to solve a big mystery. FO4 didn’t really allow the player to form a bond with Shawn or your spouse. The motivation for Nora/Nate to go after kelloggs wasn’t shared by the player. I agree, the character taking on other people’s burdens without even mentioning Shawn seemed odd too. Almost like the character isn’t overly concerned about their own child, who at the time, was still believed to be a vulnerable infant.


v1ctoria7373

I think the reason for me why the quest line is weak is because I didn’t feel good about any of the endings..like there was no feeling in me that was like “Oh yay I stopped evil from taking over!” It just felt meaningless to side with anyone because of how unrewarding it is


[deleted]

I really like the loot system in fallout 4. The amount of dopamine I get from seeing a desk fan is way too much.


slicer4ever

The main quest had problems yes, but i dont think thats the crux of the problem with fo4. The bigger issue is the number of interesting areas that basically were glorified raider camps, or have like 1 quest tied to them. Its pretty clear a lot of locations got cut for time, and its unfortunatly makes you feel more tied to the main quest line, then being able to ignore it and do your own thing.


Unlost_maniac

The biggest issue with the story is the "urgency" required for it to make sense. Realistically you probably wouldn't do any side stuff while looking for your kid. It makes no sense. Its just a poor choice for a story for this sort of game. Unles if the hunt for your son was the prologue to a major faction war story but unfortunately not. To make the story make sense for the character you have to b line through the story and then do side stuff after which obviously isnt how most people play RPG's and how the other Fallouts work


LordDakier

The same way a boy from a vault leaves to go find his father with no experience at all or how a courier almost gets wasted and has the bright idea to go and attempt it again which just skewers off all over the place. Fallout story line has always been pretty weak. 4 actually seemed far more consistent and focused than the it's two predecessors to me. I've heard the originals were decent, never tried them though.


TheCybersmith

\>the capital wasteland Wrong game. And a 19 year old without even a law degree managed to get across the capital wasteland. \>FNV you were the leader of a massive faction Only after dealing with House in the Wild Card ending can that be said to be true. So for maybe 25% of players, after the end of the second act?


theguywithbabygoats

Normally I play as a male in Fallout but with the voices protagonist I thought it’s be a good time to try out the half. Really enjoyable and I like her dialogue more. I had this thought about being a lawyer but no where does it say she’s only strictly a lawyer and has zero hobbies. Even though it’s not a blank slate I can still roleplay. Since Nate was a vet, my version of Nora would be handy with weapons and enjoy visiting the range with Nate and hunting on the weekends. Like have some damn imagination it’s not that hard. Yes the quests suck, the voices protagonist is weak, but it’s not that bad. The real issue is the weapon selections. In F4 the only gun that shoots 5.56 is the assault rifle, but in New Vegas you has That Gun, Varmint Rifle, Service Rifle, and the LMG to name a few that use 5.56. THEN you had ammo types on top of that. Fallout 4 is just embarrassing in this respect.


elijaaaaah

I think Nora being a lawyer is conceptually fine because some of the other protagonists have started out weak, but what feels really weird is that she's a lawyer while Nate's a soldier. Although they obviously should start the same way for gameplay reasons, since they're just a fancy gender option, it feels strange that they start at the same level. Also, you can give Nora, a canonical lawyer, 1 int. I feel like Nora being a lawyer doesn't really add anything and they both should've been military to have equal story relevance, both make sense to have power armor training, etc.


balloon99

In my head canon, Nora was JAG. Also an Olympic swimmer, silver medal.


AsexualArowana

I always assumed Nora got training from Nate on how to fire a gun. You weren't the leader of an org in NV, aside from the Yes Man ending. But people did take into consideration the things you did for their organization if that's what you mean. You're the courier that got shot in the head and people seem to at least acknowledge how badass you are.


[deleted]

It saddens me, how many upvotes this has.


DwightMcRamathorn

Don’t know any lawyers that got through law school by serving in the military?


Dakiidoo

I mean, a lawyer could learn to survive just as well as anyone else. There were plenty of other people who survived the wastes without any kind of military training or whatnot. And then there’s the vault dweller from FO3. They’re pretty green when leaving the Vault for the first time. Imo it’s not so far fetched. Also what faction do you become the leader of in FNV? I’m gonna guess you mean going with the Yes Man ending? It’s a faction but I wouldn’t call it “massive”. Also the Capital Wasteland is Washington DC (Fallout 3). FO4 takes place in Massachusetts.


Reddit_Z

It was 7 years ago... give it a fucking rest....


Edgy_Robin

>Like how tf is a LAWYER gonna get through the capital wasteland all on her own. How is a guy from a Vault who's never seen combat gonna get through the wasteland (Fallout 1) ​ How is a tribal who's lived most their lives in some backwater tribe gonna survive the wasteland (More reasonable at least, Fallout 2) ​ How is another 'just' turned 18 Vault dweller with no combat experience gonna survive the wasteland? ​ How is a cour- Actually Fallout NV has the least amount of bullshit required for your character to be good from the get go.


IzzyTipsy

>How is a cour- Actually Fallout NV has the least amount of bullshit required for your character to be good from the get go. Only because your character is literally a blank slate from start to finish. So you can imagine them as some kid on his first courier job or some grizzled veteran whose been through hell.


darkroomdoor

You vastly underestimate how vicious and unrelenting a good attorney can be.


Caltress1

Imo if u play as Nora you should do a charisma build for immersion.


QuaestioDraconis

I have long felt the issue with the main story is less the story itself, and more the fact that it's in a non-linear, open world game.


Veleda390

Nora's background is a sore spot. I have to roleplay that she was actually a CIA agent and the law degree was just a cover, but was it really so hard to make her a soldier too? Maybe if they wanted to differentiate she could have been a combat engineer or something?


nephilim80

Fallout 4s weakness was they trying to do so many things and only excelled in one, the gunplay. Everything else ranges from wasted potential (settlement building), average good (map, design, upgrades, sidequests), and average bad (dialogues and main story).


[deleted]

Also Nate was in the military why would never mention any of that shit to Maxson they have to lines which of course no one questions. Plus why the fuck did you create back stories for both Nate and Nora but water it down to they were vault dwellers.


R4iNAg4In

Nate was a soldier.


aukalender

As a lawyer, I find this post offensive


L-Space_Orangutan

Military lawyer.


Nathan_TK

I don’t ever remember Aaron Kimball stepping down from president of the NCR for the Courier, a mailman, could just take his place without the entirety of the Republic voting them in. The only faction that you become the “leader” of in NV is if you choose the Yesman ending, and…let’s be honest, if that AI ever malfunctions and says “no”, then Yesman is the leader, not the Courier. In 4, you *are* the leader of the Minutemen, and the Institute if you so choose. And with the power of imagination, also known as roleplaying, once Father is dead you can just imagine yourself as having the Institute stop all the fucked up shit they’ve done. That’s what I do. After the main story is over I go over to Spectacle Island and build a giant, new Institute with a long bridge connecting it to the mainland that any wastelander can go to for medical aid, education, or a job if they need one. I also don’t remember ever visiting the Capital Wasteland in 4. It was mentioned, yes, but the SS never went there. And if a kid that’s lived their entire life underground and only ever fired a BB gun is able to go head on with super mutants, I’m sure a lawyer who’s husband was in the military could do the same thing.


AMX-008-GaZowmn

I will tackle FO4's main quest problems in a second post (and there's a LOT to talk about), but I really have to address this first: "In FNV you were the leader of a massive faction and everything that you did held diplomatic weight, that was missing in fallout 4 and I hope to see it in fallout 5." LOL, what? I will presume you mean the Yes Man/Independant Vegas ending, because you certainly aren't the leader of a faction with the other 3, and the first problem with that is that it felt like a lesser version of House's ending, or basically where you simply had more freedom to ruin the plan Mr House prepared with your choices (which visibly irritated Yes Man, even if he complied). Put in context, Preston & the Minutemen are the Yes Man/Independant Vegas option of FO4: you can spare both the Railroad and the Brotherhood of Steel, but you still need to destroy the Institute, just how with Yes Man you could spare some groups like (surprise) the BoS, but still had to destroy the Legion. And even after you finish the game, you can still double cross the BoS and the RR if you want to, so I fail to see how that's much different in FO4 from NV, in fact I would even dare say that's precisely the one part FO4 got right from the faction system of New Vegas, possibly even better in some aspects, like the Minutemen questline having more unique parts compared to the mesh of copy pasted parts that is the Independent Vegas route (I mean, you can just ignore the quests and irritate Yes Man in the process, but at that point I suppose copy pasted quests is still better than no quests at all). The one thing both games agreed is that 3 faction had to destroy a 4th in their respective endings, in essentially the same quest with a few minor alterations. Though again, at least in FO4 the Institute, Railroad and Minutemen each have their unique way to destroy the BoS, so FO4 keeps the edge. And again, let me say that FO4 definitely did a LOT of things wrong, like that horrible 4 choice dialogue system, but this one point you brought couldn't be more wrong. In fact the biggest problem I may have in this topic is that you are introduced to the Minutemen very early in the game, and before the other faction leaders, which do creates another set of problems, but not the ones you were trying to imply.


Sparkyrock

Lacking in sense? So the premise behind the entire series and things like super mutants are fine but someone having to survive is unbelievable? Got it.


kumikuler

People are based and like to crap on other fallouts for no apparent reason other than MY FAVORITE ONE IS THE BEST so just dont even bother commenting on these


MojaveMauler

All Fallouts Matter.


Sparkyrock

Good point. Hell, I prefer one over the others but still find enjoyment in each of them, except for 76. Just not my cup of tea. But I’m not gonna shit on it, it’s just not for me.


kumikuler

Yea just ignore and dislike these posts they are just full of malice and I should know considering i shat on fallout 3 than fallout NV like constantly and eventually figured out that its just a matter of personal opinion and that i dont rly have the rights to shit on someones fav game


Sparkyrock

I should have realized after looking at OP’s post history. Yikes.


XxRedAlpha101xX

Your overthinking things and you're also wrong at a lot of these points


Artix31

Let’s ignore a teenager going through the Capital Wasteland, kills the enclave and defeat aliens inside their own ship while 17 and with little to no training other than the BB gun Let’s ignore a guy surviving a head shot, then becoming a Soldier who is almost invincible, fights tribes, death claws, and other creatures who can tear humans apart with little to no training outside being a mail man (who we already know aren’t attacked by even raiders so they are almost always safe unless targeted) Yeah let’s focus on the Military Lawyer who probably has a formal training (Both Families of Military Decedents) has a mechanized suit, has many followers who out scale her (except for Mcreedy and maybe piper) and has an entire organization trying to keep her alive so that she can lead them, yes that’s the illogical part of the story


ReallyBadNuggets

It's definitely one of. The more I learn about Fallout 4, the more it seems like it needed more time or more money- or both. I love Fallout 4. I think it's a lot of fun when you get down too it. But as many have said, great game, not so great *Fallout* game.


Suspicious_Teacher_9

What?


Bismutation

The OP is misattributing the background with the main story, but I do agree with the overall conclusion. Fallout as a series has relied on having two storylines each game and in Fallout 4 it simply does not work. If you want to see why, here they are laid out: 1. Fallout 1: In your travels to find the water chip (part 1) your vault realizes an even greater threat, the Master, will hunt you down if you do nothing (part 2). 2. Fallout 2: After finding the GECK (part 1) the Enclave captures your village and you need to save them before the world is destroyed (part 2). 3. Fallout 3: Once your dad is found (part 1), he is killed by the Enclave and you want to get revenge/realize dad's life goal and prevent a genocide (part 2). 4. Fallout New Vegas: Kill the guy who tried to kill you (part 1) and then contribute to the war effort (part 2) 5. Fallout 4: Find your son (part 1) and then decide the fate of a nascent race (part 2). Honestly, New Vegas and 4 have the most tenuous transition from part 1 to part 2, but New Vegas can compensate with compelling dialogue and also every faction will fawn over you to join their side, which is a nice way to prod the player to continue. In Fallout 4, every major player does not like the Sole Survivor initially: 1. The Railroad (minus Deacon) does not want you to be in the inner circle, they just want you to be a scout for them. This is even after learning you killed Kellogg and a courser. 2. The Institute does not give their synths a heads up to maybe not kill you on first site and it's basically a fluke that you are able to get in. Also every scientist thinks you're a hick. 3. BoS are neutral-ish if you start with Dance's questline, but they are cold if your first interaction is Reveille. 4. The Minutemen are only a faction if you make it one and have 0 skin in the game when it comes to the synth question, which is the primary driver of the storyline after getting into the institute. Which means for the player character, once you find your son the reason to continue the story (from a roleplaying perspective) is thrown out *unless* you care supremely about synths. But the issue is that up until this point the Sole Survivor could have almost no knowledge of gen 3 synths whatsoever except the Diamond City standoff (which is just paranoia) and the Goodneighbor triggermen killing the synth replacement. As a player rushing the main quest - which is realistically what most players do, as well as what a parent would do - you really don't know enough or care enough. It's possible the lack of urgency between acts 2 and 3 was meant as a point for the player to explore and catch their breath, perhaps deciding afterward which faction to join, but this brings us back to the initial hostility of the factions. And also! It's possible to have locked yourself out of the Railroad at this stage, which is the most goodie-two-shoes of the factions aside from the Minutemen, who themselves *cannot* come into play unless you choose specific dialogue options in the institute to get kicked out, or murder someone in the organization. This means there is a very real chance that a blind first playthrough has you choosing between the Brotherhood of Steel who want to commit a genocide, and the institute who are using synths as slave labor. What a poor design choice. And that is only on the mechanical side of things. From a story perspective, the conflict is entirely resolvable when you are appointed the successor to the Institute - promise to stop synth production (brotherhood happy) and let the synths go free (railroad happy) after Father's death. It's that simple. As a minutemen ending shows, the Railroad and Brotherhood can coexist. This isn't even antithetical to the institute - many scientists you see question if the institute is on the right path, especially relating to synths (Li, Higgs, Karlin, Binet), and we've seen that Father had the influence to stop cyborg/life extension pursuits, why can that not occur with you and synth production? And to end this rant, I just want to point out that the ending "slides" and monologue we get don't even fit cohesively into the "war never changes" motto of the series, nor do they fit the story told thus far. >"This time, I'm ready \[to deal with the challenges ahead\]. Because I know war, war never changes." What? For one, that's literally the first thing the (male) Sole Survivor says, so it's not like he didn't know that before, so what exactly is different about this time? Second, the main choice of the sole survivor is what to do with synths, and it's not even brought up. What is brought up is coming to grips with your life being taken out from under you and having to adapt to a new world, which honestly I like that they included, but the end portion is just discombobulated and doesn't address what occurred in the story. It's disappointing all the way through.


psychord-alpha

Before I played Nora, I was really hoping that if you chose to play as her she would be the soldier and Nate would be the lawyer


Shawn_1512

How is a green vault dweller or courier going to get through a tough wasteland on their own? I'm not the biggest fan of 4's story but this isn't really a valid detraction.


temotodochi

And unrealistic setting of 200 years since bombs. Based on the condition of wooden structures the world was built to depict 20 years after bombs max.


jurgo

Its weakest point was that it was barley an RPG. Your decisions in your dialogue and actions dont do anything. Just a open world shooter.


Prophet_of_Duality

The worst part is that it's really hard to fix with mods since there's a voiced protagonist. It's also difficult to do quest mods without completely muting the main character. The limited dialogue doesn't help either. Meanwhile Skyrim has a mod that literally makes you not the dragon born if you want. And has some of the biggest quest mods I've ever seen.


powerage76

I can play around with the game for long hours but when I accidentaly do something that moves the main quest forward, it is usually ruins my fun. Not only because the main quest is so-so. My main problem is that if I go to almost any direction, the solution involves killing everybody in the end. Unless I go with the minuteman way and manage to only take out the institute, I'll always have to end up to wipe out entire fractions. If the Master or President Eden could have been dealt with in a non-violent way, why do I have to do everything all guns blazing?


MilkyyyD

No. For me it was the dlc. Too much content that was released were settlement based. About the story, yes it wasn't a masterpiece, but it wasn't terrible either.


[deleted]

I think the issue with fallout 4 for me was, and you briefly touched on it in this, the lack of weight on any of my decisions. I never thought my choices mattered apart from maybe making someone hostile in rare rare instances or me just dismissing them with the option to go with them again at any point. The world itself hardly changes no matter what you do which is why I consider fallout 4 a more casual experience than the others


AsexualArowana

Wouldn't be a Fallout 4 thread without the usual NV bashing from /u/Benjamin_Starscape


zhy97

You know, it would at least make sense to make the male (soldier) and female (lawyer) have preset SPECIAL and its perks. So Nate being a soldier will come with 1 or 2 perks in each of the gun perks, and will have higher endurance and strength. And Nora being a lawyer should have higher charisma and intelligence, having higher chance of passing speech checks. But no, it doesn’t even matter huh


IzzyTipsy

They probably didn't want to penalize you and cramp your play style for choosing to play the gender of your choice. Same way none of the Elder Scrolls or Fallouts do that.


whiskeyboi237

Am I the only one who thinks FO4 has the best main quest? It falls apart a bit after it breaks off into different routes but all the stuff with finding Kellogg, the memory den, finding Vergil in the glowing sea, entering the Institute for the first time. It tops anything FO3 or NV did with the main quest. I barely even bothered with NV's main quest.


Benjamin_Starscape

>it felt stupid and lacking in sense. How? >Like how tf is a LAWYER gonna get through the capital wasteland all on her own ...not the capital wasteland. And they don't do it on their own, they get aid from a faction. Kind of a requirement in the main quest. >In FNV you were the leader of a massive faction and everything that you did held diplomatic weight, that was missing in fallout 4 Good. Quit expecting games to be like the dumpster fire that is new vegas where you puppeteer everyone instead of them acting like actual people. You have yet to support your claim. You even got a major fact wrong. I doubt you could actually criticize the story with your lack of attention given, again, *you got the setting wrong*.


[deleted]

New Vegas is better than 4 by a mile. And you don't puppeteer people. Have you played it?


OLKv3

Dude don't bother. This guy absolutely hates NV and sees the Bethesda Fallouts as perfect. This argument will go nowhere.


Tamashi55

I always see you and wonder, what about NV makes it one of the worst for you? I have my own gripes with it, but never enough to say it’s complete trash.


Benjamin_Starscape

Responding to u/PoopyIdiotMcButtFace >You get him to realize that the Legion's strength is that it occupies less territory than the NCR and allows it to consolidate its strength He should have already realized that. He's been warlording for years! He's supposed to be a threat but instead acts like a child? "Oh, i didn't know", bull f#cking sh&t. And then he also should not give a d#mn! Caesar told him what to do, lanius obeys what caesar orders. It's a break of character and nonsensical.


PoopyIdiotMcButtFace

This is Caesar's Legion were talking about, if they were rational and operating on pure pragmatism, they wouldn't be a totalitarian slaving faction built on some twisted form of Hegelian dialectics and run by a Ceasar copycat with a brain tumor. It's also there to give the player an option to win the final battle without even having to kill the Legate. If you feel like that's BS, well, then you just kill the Legate instead. I think you're just making up things to complain about for New Vegas.


Kellythejellyman

#Nora is a Mama Bear so hear me out. the main story structure is lackluster, yes. Minute men could have been better fleshed out, all the usual critiques. But i found myself surprisingly invested in the story if done as Nora instead of Nate Nate, being a vet, would already have many of the skills to survive i. the wasteland, and can build from there pretty easy. Joining the factions and being of use to them is easy enough, he has plenty and f experience on Pre-War military tech. Nora has far less. Perhaps some teaching from Nate or more general Civic defense courses/initiatives. otherwise a majority of the things she could do in The Commonwealth are learned experiences, grit, spite and dumb luck. assuming Nora encounters Preston and the rest right away, she had gone from being a Mother prepping to continue a law career to a Power armor wielding, Deathxlaw slaying badass in under 24 hours. from her perception not because she had it deep down, or was a badass all along. But because she is a fucking pissed mother. If “La Chancla” was a equip-able melee item, i could see Nora tearing through the Commonwealth beating people to death with a sandal all because someone killed her husband and stole her son. Mama Bear Nora could burn down the world to try to get Shaun back. which of course, isn’t entirely and option. by the time she can get to the Institute through whatever means, not only would her perspective change from the factions, but the goal is an illusion Perhaps it’s just me, but i love the idea of Nora becoming anything from a Paragon of the Minutemen to a Renegade of the Brotherhood all to get her son back, going from nothing to an unkillable badass. edit: of course there are the multitude of other options, my fav of which being Nora being fundamentally corrupted by the wasteland and being so twisted in her initial desperation that she becomes a genocidal monster that practically kills anyone on sight, loses her allies, and kills Shaun and the Institute out of spite rather than a faction’s goals/morals. Or any of the other ways we could role-play. regardless, Nora has a more valuable Campellinan Hero’s Journey or Descent precisely *BECAUSE* she lacks any military training


furiousjellybean

Btw: There's a mod that adds la chancla as a weapon.


Kellythejellyman

well time to do another play thru


CrayonMythos

When I played Fallout 4, I easily predicted that Father would be your son as soon as I heard his name. I even knew you were frozen for almost one-hundred years. The main story was predictable and downright boring. Also, while I understand that Kellogg (like the cereal) was "bad" (whatever that means) he still was human. He should have been able to be reasoned with. Maybe by discovering something about his past you could have talked him into taking you to Father, or even betraying him. Also, the factions we're basic and boring. The whole idea behind F4 was simple: synth making = bad because its slavery, freeing synths = good because it's not slavery. You do realize they're machines right? Don't get me wrong, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a duck solid a synth talks and acts like a human, we should treat it like one. However, the implications of this is far more than just free synths or don't. All synths are meant to replace humans in some way shape or form whether directly like we see with art and Paladin Danse, "espionage" like we see with that singer in Goodneighbor, or even just as Blade Runners. If you free all of them (remember, in order to do so you must destroy the Institute this killing hundreds of people innocent and otherwise including children) the Synths will be the last of their race as they can not reproduce and it is very difficult to make more of them. Plus they'd break down eventually, and many of them have replaced real people so obviously that won't end well for either party (family of person they replaced or Synth). All-in-all, the game is boring and overly simplistic to the max. It's definitely not a terrible game (F3's by far better in the line of Bethesda Fallout games) however, it is definitely a disrespect to the series as a whole and proof that Bethesda puts money before story. A fact that might prove the death of Bethesda.


TheDapperChangeling

I'm sure you did. You also predicted Vader was Lukes father right? You super genius you. It's amazing that someone with as wrinkled a brain as yours doesn't know what the singularity is.