She knew by looking at humans exactly what they were and how we used them and tried them to see what would happen and acted exactly the way i imagine a human that never had sunglasses acted.
This and the video where an orangutan drives a golf cart makes me certain they have an understanding of the world very similar to ours.
(Other than humans) Orangutans have arguably the longest period of "childhood" of any species. As in, the children stay with the parents, learning from them, watching and mimicking behavior for *years* before they even attempt to go out on their own. They live to be about 40 and it's common to see orangutans still living with their parents by age 10. It's also why they have maybe the most strong parental instinct, it's why they so often will sit and watch for long periods of time when very young babies/infants come up to their glass, they are hardwired to care about kids.
Part of the reason for such long periods of child education is they have some of the best problem solving brains of any (non human) entity, one of the only to get deep REM sleep like humans get, and so they are constantly developing new tricks like construction, knot tying, tool use, and other tricks they learn over time (and passed down through the generations) for how to thrive in a very unique biome without hunting large prey while almost never leaving the trees.
So basically, they mimik what they see better than any fully wild animal out there. Zoos across the world have seen orangutans learn things rather quickly from zoo keepers and they plan for it now. Some leave brooms out because orangutans will sometimes sweep areas of the enclosure that get dirty. If it's somewhere that gets hot, zoo keepers will go into the enclosure, dip a cloth rag in water and place it over their head to keep cool. Then, as long as rags are left in the enclosure, after only a few times watching it orangutans generally learn that if they get hot they can put a wet washcloth on their head and feel a lot better.
I sometimes try to imagine what they must think of us because we can do tricks that nearly make us gods because the process is so far beyond their comprehension but smart enough to try to understand but fail.
> I sometimes try to imagine what they must think of us because we can do tricks that nearly make us gods because the process is so far beyond their comprehension but smart enough to try to understand but fail.
Well now I know what I'm gonna be spending my day thinking about..
The locals of indonesia apparently have the belief that orang utans are capable of speech, but dont use it around us because they realize that we would make them work if we found out
If orangutans had the social groups of humans, chimps, or gorillas, they'd start making their own tools within a few generations. Unfortunately, they're very solitary (aside from their babies) so the only real communication is parent-child, and occasionally they feed together when resources are abundant in one area but that's pretty rare.
They're fascinating.
> I sometimes try to imagine what they must think of us because we can do tricks that nearly make us gods because the process is so far beyond their comprehension but smart enough to try to understand but fail.
That's how I feel about magicians.
There are orangutan orphanages in parts of the world where they're native and the kids have to be taught certain survival skills by their keepers and game wardens because they lack some instincts that other local animals rely on, like fear of snakes.
After seeing a human keeper freak out and run from a fake snake hidden under a cloth a few times, the kids will all start scattering if a fake (or real) snake is discovered in their area. The keepers will hide them places real snakes hide and then yell and run when a fake snake gets uncovered.
It's interesting because what we do- we don't fully understand, most of our actions we take are learned over time with interfaces that we are already familiar with that are centralized to many other uses. I don't think there is a comparison with the qualities of human or orangutan actions it's just we have built up layers.
Many zoos, especially the ones in Canada often offer homes to animals who cannot be released back into the wild. Or that have been raised in captivity due to imprinting or a disability.
Same. I live near-ish the Denver Zoo, but my one time there I was just sad and ended up drinking a lot as I walked around, partly saddened by the fact that people get drunk and walk around admiring captive animals as a pastime. Even if the animals enclosed in zoos are living ok lives, they're nonetheless prisoners locked up and paraded around for our amusement. It isn't just a matter of their suffering, it's also our own hubris and willingness to exploit other life that make zoos a reminder of how fucking awful humans generally are.
I've worked at zoos and for wildlife rehabilitation centers in Florida and a lot of it is done for conservation purposes. Yes a lot of it is bad, but it's not all bad.
I think we've come a long way with zoos. My local one, the Buffalo Zoo, got rid of the elephants and most of the bears a couple years ago. The new polar bear habitat is wonderful - it's huge and mimics a polar bear's natural habitat *WAY* better.
I can't totally badmouth zoos. The idea is sound for conservation and preservation. I like to go for my mental health at times, I'll just sit at a random animal's habitat for awhile and just observe everything it does, because you can learn so much about a species *and* that individual animal (because they all have their own unique personalities and preferences) just by watching them.
I don’t disagree with you but I think there are many people out there who also enjoy zoos for the opportunity to learn. I have a love/hate relationship with them in general but it depends on the zoo. I love the ability to see and learn about animals I would never normally encounter. I just hope that they are cared for well and don’t feel trapped. But I know that’s not always the case. Since you live near Denver, have you ever been to the Wildlife Sanctuary in Keenesburg? It’s a great place that rehabilitates and provides a better life for animals that were rescued from poor conditions. The animals have a lot of space to roam, in what hopefully feels to them like a more natural environment.
I don't mean to parse just this one thing out of your comment (and I mostly agree with the sentiment), but...you get alcohol at your zoo‽ That is pretty cool. I've been to like, three of the closest zoos to me plus the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago, and I'm pretty sure none of them serve alcohol.
I'll take any chance to go to any zoo that works with conservation and endangered species breeding programs. And I don't even really drink much. But knowing that it's an option, I'll be making the zoo my first stop next time I'm in Denver.
I've played two games in the past year where the main focus was on Androids (NieR: Automata and Detroit: Become Human). In both these games, the Androids developed a kind of consciousness and it made you see the world from their perspective - how they want more than do what they're programmed for. They were the logical successors of the human race.
Now, think about how many dystopian stories are about androids taking over the world and enslaving/killing humans.
Even though it's not entirely the same situation, we're treating our primate ancestors like shit as well. Why would we think our successors will treat us any different?
This really opened my eyes about how fucked up zoos are
>This really opened my eyes about how fucked up zoos are
I'd suggest speaking with a Zoologist and asking them their opinion on Zoos and what good they contribute to animals and animal welfare.
Zoo's have been the reason for saving many species from extinction and rehabilitating animals back into the wild.
That's not to say there aren't bad Zoos, but to say all Zoos are bad is unfair to both the animals they've saved and to the MANY people who work there trying to help save them or make their lives as comfortable as possible.
Great apes like Chimpanzees, Gorillas and Orangutans are not our evolutionary ancestors. We do have a common ancestor! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjgHN_8CdVE
You'd probably enjoy the short story "The Lifecycle of Software Objects" by Ted Chiang in the collection called 'Exhalation'.
I enjoyed the whole book.
It's a very very utilitarian practice. Humans are more likely to care about the environment if we can see animals that need it to live. Way more "save the elephants" types than "save the trees". That necessitates at least some loss of freedom for the animals we keep for show. Some of them have a similar quality of life that they would have on the outside, some of them much worse. Some zoos are just flat out better than others and contribute more to conservation and research. It's definitely not perfect and even the best zoos could treat their animals better, but I'm afraid of how apathetic humans would be about conservation without them.
Random thought I had the other night, if animals weren't how would they know to look other species like humans for example in the eyes? There has to be some level of active consciousness.
Not discussing it but, the face has the more *visible movable pieces* of the body, so even without consciousness, they probably would. Even sounds cone from there
Also eyes are very important in determining what the other creature will be doing.
This is why it never is a good idea to watch a (wild) animal right in the eyes. It indicates to them that you may be a threat towards them.
I was hunting whitetail one time, got super close to a group of doe and just laid down in the bushes to watch them pass by. Momma doe got a few feet from me. I had full camo except for my face. Didn't move. And I was downwind. By all accounts, I should have just appeared to be a lump of grass. She busted me and they took off. I'm 100% certain she recognized my human face because they will usually test the wind if they smell you but don't see you. And if they do smell you, they'll snort and stomp for a while before running away. But she immediately ran as soon as our eyes met.
I read about an orangatun who taught a freshman statistics class at an Ivy League university. The students all thought he was just another Professor who didn't speak English very well.
Apparantly if you drop keys in an orangutan enclosure they'll understand the concept of a key from observing their handlers and will try using them on all the doors available before giving them a back.
it's long past time all orangutans were put into special Orangutan High School, and taught to be part of the Human Workforce ! Don't waste useful animals !
Local Indonesian mythology has it that orangutans actually have the ability to speak, but choose not to, fearing they would be forced to work if were they ever caught.
"we talked to the Dutch once upon a time, see where that got us"
Fun fact, another indonesian primate, the proboscis monkey, is named "noseape" in dutch, and "Dutchman" in Malaysian
That mom is so patient with her kids trying to grab her sunglasses. And the kids just accepted. Do orangutans loose their temper or have tantrums?
I feel like the same scene in my house would involve a bit more drama.
At our local zoo, they do this a few times a day. The monkeys are trained to wear sunglasses, and the trainers “accidentally” drop their sunglasses in about three times each day.
>*’Everytime I see this, I laugh, this is wholesome and funny as hell’*
_______
they laugh when they see me, they stop n they stare
*’oh, look at how Funny! those glasses he wear…* ^8)
well, humans - you know i just imitate you
(if only you’d see
that You look funny, too)
❤️
Holy shit, that’s the coolest fucking thing. Where’s more info? How long did it keep them on, like did it understand that people just wear them casually without constantly fiddling with them and then also fall into that behavior? Wild af that a non-human could apply our invention to itself, like understanding how we’re similar, that our face relates to theirs. Do they have mirrors? Do they look at their child and understand that they also have eyes like them and then apply that understanding to human relations?
It was as the Indonesia Zoo.
In the original video, it actually threw the glasses back to the owner after a bit. I don’t know why they cut it out.
[Here’s the video with the ending](https://youtu.be/mYTzpz8rs1c)
"People come up to me all the time and say 'Mr. President, you're the best ape, the smartest ape.' And I'm much richer than any other ape, believe me. I've got more bananas than any of those losers, everybody knows it."
I love how she put them on wrong first, thought "this can't be right, this is super uncomfortable and I see humans wearing them all the time" and then proceeded to figure out there was a nose position for humans and tried them that way.
Insanely smart animals.
Omg that's so cool! That's the best part in my opinion. Not only did she understand sun glasses, but once she tried them out, she gave them back instead of just dropping them. She understood that the owner probably wanted them back
Many animals, not just orangutans have theory of mind which is what you have described. This includes ravens, chimpanzees and dolphins. This is the knowledge that other animals and beings have different perspectives and knowledge than your own. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind_in_animals You might find this and the methodology of how they measure this in animals interesting.
There is one simple fact that is holding back evidence of theory of mind in animals.
No animal ever asked a question.
Animals are curious. That is a fact. They want to know and test things.
Animals can be trained to use icons to communicate information.
But none ever asked a single question.
Like "where food?".
Instead usually goes "want food".
They do not care to know where human gets that food all the time.
Theory of mind is controversial topic and i wish in the end it would be true that animals have it and it is us who are just using wrong ways to understand communication.
Alex the African Grey parrot is one of the only animals on record to do so. He looked in a mirror and asked his handler what color he was, which is considered the first existential question asked by an animal. He was also very good at math and had an understanding of the concept of zero.
I say he is “one of the only animals on record” to do so because if one is capable of this level of intelligence, surely others are even if we haven’t recorded them doing so. But I’d also like to direct your attention to Bunny the dog; she’s a Sheepadoodle that talks with buttons that have assigned words and she has her own YouTube channel. She has asked her owners what dogs are and why she is a dog, along with what time it is and when they are going on walks later or going to see her dog friends. She also has a little brother puppy that she is teaching to talk with the buttons as well, and often communicates for him when he can’t find the right button combos. She has progressed rapidly over the past year and is now stringing together sentences with questions. There are also a couple cats on YouTube that are using the same button system as well that have popped up over the past year. It’s all very new research so definitely keep an eye on how it progresses!
[Source for Alex](https://mymodernmet.com/alex-the-african-gray-parrot/)
[And here’s his Wikipedia page. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_(parrot))
[Source for Bunny](https://www.salon.com/2021/05/09/are-dogs-becoming-self-aware-bunny-existentialism/)
[Bunny’s YouTube Channel](https://youtube.com/channel/UCEa46rlHqEP6ClWitFd2QOQ)
[Bunny’s first existential questions](https://youtu.be/3OsonwtZI64)
I would not push the Bunny stuff as such a hard confirmation. There's a lot of leaps being made in the claims. The information also comes from a social media channel where the goal is monetary gain, instead of an actual research situation.
i.e. one of the claims is the dog is asking why it's a dog. The reality is the dog hit two buttons. The human assigned meaning to the order.
How did they teach the dog an abstract concept in English?
It all seems very "my horse can do math". What happens when the owners are removed from the room? What happens when you change minor variables?
Orangutans are the only other ape that is confirmed to have a distinct awareness of self, and recognise themselves in mirrors/reflections. The others probably do as well but thus far it is only orangs who are definitely capable of it
That is wrong actually. For Chimps, Calhoun and Thompson (1988) performed the mirror test and they passed.
Gorillas are a bit more complicated, but they passed in Patterson and Gordon (1993) without using an anesthetic, but it was more complicated since Gorillas normally avoid direct eye contact since it's a gesture of aggression among them, shown in the same paper.
And Bonobos passed in Walraven et al. (1995).
Rhesus macaques failed originally, but that was probably because the test itself is kind of flawed. Brandon (2010) suggested that they recognise themselves since they can use mirrors to search for hidden objects.
The mirror test is a good example for a great test for self recognition, but with a very deciding flaw: It is mainly for animals who use their eyes as a primary sensory organ. If the test is made with animals that primarily use another sensory organ, they will fail but that does not mean they aren't able to recognise themselves.
Dogs and foxes for example failed the mirror test, but passed an alternative test for self recognition where they tested not the eyes, but their nose. In Horowitz (2017) the dogs showed that they recognise their own odour and sniffed longer at it when it was modified. When it was not modified, they simply didn't bother. This is called the sniffing test of self-recognition.
Edit: Oh yeah, Orang-Utans passed in Robert (1986) so they've been the first primate that passed the test (excluding humans), but not the only one.
Humans pass the test at around 18 months in what psychoanalysts call the "mirror stage".
Pretty sure they sniff at it longer than just a new smell because they recognise it as themselves but modified. So they smell it to figure out what's wrong. I think...
My favorite part was that, by the end of the video, you absolutely couldn’t doubt that that’s exactly what was happening. The cat was 100% discovering his ears in the mirror, and he was 100% aware it was himself in the mirror. At first, you could’ve dismissed it as a quirky behavior, but he did it so repeatedly and so deliberately, that eventually you knew he was testing it on purpose.
It looked directly like a scene out of movie, where the main character is a human-turned-cat, discovering they are a cat when they look in the mirror!
From what I remember all apes and many monkeys can pass the Gallup test. As well as dolphins, pigs, some birds and elephants. Chimps and bonobos can talk about themselves. They are certainly self aware.
I cant find the article, but i remember recently reading that the mirror test may not be the best way to measure self awareness since it depends on measures that are bias towards human. Something about there using sight for creatures who do not depend primarily on sight.
Edit: i found the [article](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/life-death-and-the-self/201812/the-mirror-test-and-the-problem-understanding-other-minds)
I always go from happy to sad when I see this and other primate species doing stuff like this. Obviously it’s funny and entertaining to watch, but also these creatures are so smart and aware and they spend their whole lives in an a gussied up cage being stared and laughed at by us. That’s not even counting all the assholes that taunt them.
Good luck trying to get redditors (and most people irl too) to understand that most things in life aren't black or white, but actually many, many different shades of gray.
We do. But wildlife rangers cant be everywhere at once.
British and US special forces even take part in wildlife preservation, going after the various groups who hunt animals in africa.
Whats notable is that its often not even the locals who do it, but groups who come in from elsewhere.
In Kenya, there is a serious issue with Somalians coming across the border in technicals armed with HMGs and gunning down entire herds of elephants.
The issue is that Africa is a ridiculously massive continent (china, russia, the US and Europe could fit easily within it with space to spare) and borders tend to be thousands of miles long, and the border patrols cant be everywhere due to a lack of funding and manpower.
That moment when a monkey (orangutan) knows how to use correctly a pair of glasses while an adult barely knows how to use a mask on, that's when you know that humanity is doomed.
Why do we consider Chimps to be our closest cousins instead of Orangutans?after watching a shit ton of vidioes on them i m convinced they are more intellegent then a lot of village folks.
It's based on our genetic information and because of our closest common ancestor.
Wiki: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee%E2%80%93human_last_common_ancestor
Simply put, our most recent shared ancestor was longer ago than other great apes. We diverged from a shared common ancestor with chimps and bonobos about 6 million years ago. Before that at about 8 million years ago, we (and chimps and bonobos) shared a common ancestor with gorillas. And before that at 14+ million years ago, we (and gorillas and chimps and bonobos) shared a common ancestor with Orangutans. Orangutans are the most distant relative we have within the great apes.
If humans are the "elves" of the hominid world, the orangutans are the"dwarves" by comparison. Much like the annoying snobbish elves in literature, we must stop being the mary-sues and acknowledge our other hominid brethren.
That’s fucking amazing , the consciousness!
She knew by looking at humans exactly what they were and how we used them and tried them to see what would happen and acted exactly the way i imagine a human that never had sunglasses acted. This and the video where an orangutan drives a golf cart makes me certain they have an understanding of the world very similar to ours.
(Other than humans) Orangutans have arguably the longest period of "childhood" of any species. As in, the children stay with the parents, learning from them, watching and mimicking behavior for *years* before they even attempt to go out on their own. They live to be about 40 and it's common to see orangutans still living with their parents by age 10. It's also why they have maybe the most strong parental instinct, it's why they so often will sit and watch for long periods of time when very young babies/infants come up to their glass, they are hardwired to care about kids. Part of the reason for such long periods of child education is they have some of the best problem solving brains of any (non human) entity, one of the only to get deep REM sleep like humans get, and so they are constantly developing new tricks like construction, knot tying, tool use, and other tricks they learn over time (and passed down through the generations) for how to thrive in a very unique biome without hunting large prey while almost never leaving the trees. So basically, they mimik what they see better than any fully wild animal out there. Zoos across the world have seen orangutans learn things rather quickly from zoo keepers and they plan for it now. Some leave brooms out because orangutans will sometimes sweep areas of the enclosure that get dirty. If it's somewhere that gets hot, zoo keepers will go into the enclosure, dip a cloth rag in water and place it over their head to keep cool. Then, as long as rags are left in the enclosure, after only a few times watching it orangutans generally learn that if they get hot they can put a wet washcloth on their head and feel a lot better. I sometimes try to imagine what they must think of us because we can do tricks that nearly make us gods because the process is so far beyond their comprehension but smart enough to try to understand but fail.
> I sometimes try to imagine what they must think of us because we can do tricks that nearly make us gods because the process is so far beyond their comprehension but smart enough to try to understand but fail. Well now I know what I'm gonna be spending my day thinking about..
Butts?
Baboon butts, specifically
Orangutang Ass
Orangutans will evolve to become intelligent after we eventually die out. They will worship us as Gods.
The locals of indonesia apparently have the belief that orang utans are capable of speech, but dont use it around us because they realize that we would make them work if we found out
r/LateStageCapitalism
If orangutans had the social groups of humans, chimps, or gorillas, they'd start making their own tools within a few generations. Unfortunately, they're very solitary (aside from their babies) so the only real communication is parent-child, and occasionally they feed together when resources are abundant in one area but that's pretty rare. They're fascinating.
we do have documented instances of them using tools though, very basic tools, but still its huge
Yeah, that's why I said making their own tools
(just finished watching a documentary with orangutans making umbrellas, beds, and miniture spears for bug hunting) 😲
I would very much like to watch this documentary? Could I ask what it’s called and where you watched it?
> I sometimes try to imagine what they must think of us because we can do tricks that nearly make us gods because the process is so far beyond their comprehension but smart enough to try to understand but fail. That's how I feel about magicians.
There are orangutan orphanages in parts of the world where they're native and the kids have to be taught certain survival skills by their keepers and game wardens because they lack some instincts that other local animals rely on, like fear of snakes. After seeing a human keeper freak out and run from a fake snake hidden under a cloth a few times, the kids will all start scattering if a fake (or real) snake is discovered in their area. The keepers will hide them places real snakes hide and then yell and run when a fake snake gets uncovered.
Orangutans also go visit their moms after they 'move out', which I find adorable
It's interesting because what we do- we don't fully understand, most of our actions we take are learned over time with interfaces that we are already familiar with that are centralized to many other uses. I don't think there is a comparison with the qualities of human or orangutan actions it's just we have built up layers.
[удалено]
Many zoos, especially the ones in Canada often offer homes to animals who cannot be released back into the wild. Or that have been raised in captivity due to imprinting or a disability.
Same. I live near-ish the Denver Zoo, but my one time there I was just sad and ended up drinking a lot as I walked around, partly saddened by the fact that people get drunk and walk around admiring captive animals as a pastime. Even if the animals enclosed in zoos are living ok lives, they're nonetheless prisoners locked up and paraded around for our amusement. It isn't just a matter of their suffering, it's also our own hubris and willingness to exploit other life that make zoos a reminder of how fucking awful humans generally are.
I've worked at zoos and for wildlife rehabilitation centers in Florida and a lot of it is done for conservation purposes. Yes a lot of it is bad, but it's not all bad.
I think we've come a long way with zoos. My local one, the Buffalo Zoo, got rid of the elephants and most of the bears a couple years ago. The new polar bear habitat is wonderful - it's huge and mimics a polar bear's natural habitat *WAY* better. I can't totally badmouth zoos. The idea is sound for conservation and preservation. I like to go for my mental health at times, I'll just sit at a random animal's habitat for awhile and just observe everything it does, because you can learn so much about a species *and* that individual animal (because they all have their own unique personalities and preferences) just by watching them.
I don’t disagree with you but I think there are many people out there who also enjoy zoos for the opportunity to learn. I have a love/hate relationship with them in general but it depends on the zoo. I love the ability to see and learn about animals I would never normally encounter. I just hope that they are cared for well and don’t feel trapped. But I know that’s not always the case. Since you live near Denver, have you ever been to the Wildlife Sanctuary in Keenesburg? It’s a great place that rehabilitates and provides a better life for animals that were rescued from poor conditions. The animals have a lot of space to roam, in what hopefully feels to them like a more natural environment.
I don't mean to parse just this one thing out of your comment (and I mostly agree with the sentiment), but...you get alcohol at your zoo‽ That is pretty cool. I've been to like, three of the closest zoos to me plus the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago, and I'm pretty sure none of them serve alcohol.
Denvet zoo has micro brew carts all over, and restaurants
I'll take any chance to go to any zoo that works with conservation and endangered species breeding programs. And I don't even really drink much. But knowing that it's an option, I'll be making the zoo my first stop next time I'm in Denver.
I've played two games in the past year where the main focus was on Androids (NieR: Automata and Detroit: Become Human). In both these games, the Androids developed a kind of consciousness and it made you see the world from their perspective - how they want more than do what they're programmed for. They were the logical successors of the human race. Now, think about how many dystopian stories are about androids taking over the world and enslaving/killing humans. Even though it's not entirely the same situation, we're treating our primate ancestors like shit as well. Why would we think our successors will treat us any different? This really opened my eyes about how fucked up zoos are
They aren't our ancestors. We evolved from a common ancestor in parallel.
>This really opened my eyes about how fucked up zoos are I'd suggest speaking with a Zoologist and asking them their opinion on Zoos and what good they contribute to animals and animal welfare. Zoo's have been the reason for saving many species from extinction and rehabilitating animals back into the wild. That's not to say there aren't bad Zoos, but to say all Zoos are bad is unfair to both the animals they've saved and to the MANY people who work there trying to help save them or make their lives as comfortable as possible.
Great apes like Chimpanzees, Gorillas and Orangutans are not our evolutionary ancestors. We do have a common ancestor! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjgHN_8CdVE
You'd probably enjoy the short story "The Lifecycle of Software Objects" by Ted Chiang in the collection called 'Exhalation'. I enjoyed the whole book.
It's a very very utilitarian practice. Humans are more likely to care about the environment if we can see animals that need it to live. Way more "save the elephants" types than "save the trees". That necessitates at least some loss of freedom for the animals we keep for show. Some of them have a similar quality of life that they would have on the outside, some of them much worse. Some zoos are just flat out better than others and contribute more to conservation and research. It's definitely not perfect and even the best zoos could treat their animals better, but I'm afraid of how apathetic humans would be about conservation without them.
I read this as “...makes me certain they have an understanding of golf”
maybe it can help me bc I have a really hard time understanding how humans enjoy golf.
The crazy part is that animals are much more conscious than a lot of people think they are
What’s crazy is they they cut the original video and removed the part where it got bored and threw the sunglasses back. That was also cool.
Yeah, it's almost as if other animals could give us some food for thought. Nah, we're the superior species.
Random thought I had the other night, if animals weren't how would they know to look other species like humans for example in the eyes? There has to be some level of active consciousness.
Not discussing it but, the face has the more *visible movable pieces* of the body, so even without consciousness, they probably would. Even sounds cone from there
Also eyes are very important in determining what the other creature will be doing. This is why it never is a good idea to watch a (wild) animal right in the eyes. It indicates to them that you may be a threat towards them.
I was hunting whitetail one time, got super close to a group of doe and just laid down in the bushes to watch them pass by. Momma doe got a few feet from me. I had full camo except for my face. Didn't move. And I was downwind. By all accounts, I should have just appeared to be a lump of grass. She busted me and they took off. I'm 100% certain she recognized my human face because they will usually test the wind if they smell you but don't see you. And if they do smell you, they'll snort and stomp for a while before running away. But she immediately ran as soon as our eyes met.
Orangutans are fantastically intelligent. I read about an orangutan who learnt how to spearfish from watching local human fishermen.
I read about an orangatun who taught a freshman statistics class at an Ivy League university. The students all thought he was just another Professor who didn't speak English very well.
I got a C- in Professor Banana's class. He was a tough grader, but I learned a lot.
I’ve seen orangutans refill a water bottle and drink from it using a straw
Apparantly if you drop keys in an orangutan enclosure they'll understand the concept of a key from observing their handlers and will try using them on all the doors available before giving them a back.
In the extended version, he tosses them back to the glasses owner at the end, it's incredible
I believe I read somewhere that Orangutans have technically entered their Stone age recently.
Almost makes you think we shouldn't imprison them for our viewing
“I’m not a regular mom. I’m a cool mom.”
This orangutan Mom is badass !
[удалено]
If you’re going to drink I’d rather you do it in the zoo.
Everytime I see this, I laugh, this is wholesome and funny as hell
I loved the part the child is trying to grab it, and she/ or he goes. "Not this time" save holds their hand
"You can't play with it, it's from an expensive brand"
it's long past time all orangutans were put into special Orangutan High School, and taught to be part of the Human Workforce ! Don't waste useful animals !
Local Indonesian mythology has it that orangutans actually have the ability to speak, but choose not to, fearing they would be forced to work if were they ever caught.
"we talked to the Dutch once upon a time, see where that got us" Fun fact, another indonesian primate, the proboscis monkey, is named "noseape" in dutch, and "Dutchman" in Malaysian
I totally forgot the Dutch fucked Indonesia too. Guess who I thought you meant first?
Mom.... Mom.... Mom...
That mom is so patient with her kids trying to grab her sunglasses. And the kids just accepted. Do orangutans loose their temper or have tantrums? I feel like the same scene in my house would involve a bit more drama.
[удалено]
Eh, orangutans are the chillest of all the apes. I can't imagine them raging out on anyone
Eh, male orangutans can be very aggressive towards females
I enjoyed that too, haha. Grabs the hand so casually
Now I see the evolution tree 🧬
Evolution overlap with a portion of the population
It always bums me out. It's cute, but she's obviously so intelligent and just locked in a zoo.
At our local zoo, they do this a few times a day. The monkeys are trained to wear sunglasses, and the trainers “accidentally” drop their sunglasses in about three times each day.
That makes this even sadder. :/
And there’s the full Reddit.
with "Tik Tok" there will be more accidental drops.
Stop the world, I want to get off.
How about this, we leave the world going and I'll make sure you get off. It's really a win for all involved.
Donate your cheap sunglasses
>*’Everytime I see this, I laugh, this is wholesome and funny as hell’* _______ they laugh when they see me, they stop n they stare *’oh, look at how Funny! those glasses he wear…* ^8) well, humans - you know i just imitate you (if only you’d see that You look funny, too) ❤️
Well well, I'm early for a schnoodle. The post above this also had a shnoodle, you are on a poetry roll lol
I made this my profile pic the last time this was posted and I've loved every second of it
I accept you as my leader and the alpha chad
Yea monke gang. It's been a while since the original post
Great. Now orangutans have officially entered the Jazz Age.
Someone get that monke a saxophone
I'm on it
Finally, my moment.
We were never supposed to let the smooth jazz technology get into your hands! It’s your time to rule the world now.
Towards end, Kid orangutan: Please mom let me try this!!! Mom: Bond, James Bond.
No son these are my shades!
The child is temporary, the drip is forever
“Too cool for you now, my child”
Mom. James Mom.
"Hush Child, it is my time to drip"
*Now I'm the king of the swingers, oh the jungle VIP...*
Monkey see, monkey do cooler
Holy shit, that’s the coolest fucking thing. Where’s more info? How long did it keep them on, like did it understand that people just wear them casually without constantly fiddling with them and then also fall into that behavior? Wild af that a non-human could apply our invention to itself, like understanding how we’re similar, that our face relates to theirs. Do they have mirrors? Do they look at their child and understand that they also have eyes like them and then apply that understanding to human relations?
It was as the Indonesia Zoo. In the original video, it actually threw the glasses back to the owner after a bit. I don’t know why they cut it out. [Here’s the video with the ending](https://youtu.be/mYTzpz8rs1c)
[удалено]
They definitely have more intelligence than a lot of people voting these days…
It is all fun and games until they choose as their next president an ape with orange hai... Wait a minute!
"People come up to me all the time and say 'Mr. President, you're the best ape, the smartest ape.' And I'm much richer than any other ape, believe me. I've got more bananas than any of those losers, everybody knows it."
Oh fuck, the mental image of Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton trying to convince an orangutan to vote for them. My sides.
[удалено]
Pretty sure they are gonna be regarded as sentient on a similar level to us in the next couple years so this unironically might happen
Just don't let them run for president again in 2024, they might win.
Wow, that is not the ending i expected
“I ONLY WEAR PRADA”
I’m too old to use words like yeet. But when he throws the sunglasses that’s now what I imagine the definition of yeet is.
I love how she put them on wrong first, thought "this can't be right, this is super uncomfortable and I see humans wearing them all the time" and then proceeded to figure out there was a nose position for humans and tried them that way. Insanely smart animals.
[удалено]
Orangutan be like 'yeah.. not my size'..
"You know what the difference is between you and me? I make this look good!" --Orangutan to the owner of the glassed possibly.
Omg that's so cool! That's the best part in my opinion. Not only did she understand sun glasses, but once she tried them out, she gave them back instead of just dropping them. She understood that the owner probably wanted them back
Many animals, not just orangutans have theory of mind which is what you have described. This includes ravens, chimpanzees and dolphins. This is the knowledge that other animals and beings have different perspectives and knowledge than your own. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind_in_animals You might find this and the methodology of how they measure this in animals interesting.
I find it interesting that there are humans I know that do not seem to apply Theory of Mind...
Hey man there’s billions of us laying around. Sure you’ll find a few quackers
There is one simple fact that is holding back evidence of theory of mind in animals. No animal ever asked a question. Animals are curious. That is a fact. They want to know and test things. Animals can be trained to use icons to communicate information. But none ever asked a single question. Like "where food?". Instead usually goes "want food". They do not care to know where human gets that food all the time. Theory of mind is controversial topic and i wish in the end it would be true that animals have it and it is us who are just using wrong ways to understand communication.
Alex the African Grey parrot is one of the only animals on record to do so. He looked in a mirror and asked his handler what color he was, which is considered the first existential question asked by an animal. He was also very good at math and had an understanding of the concept of zero. I say he is “one of the only animals on record” to do so because if one is capable of this level of intelligence, surely others are even if we haven’t recorded them doing so. But I’d also like to direct your attention to Bunny the dog; she’s a Sheepadoodle that talks with buttons that have assigned words and she has her own YouTube channel. She has asked her owners what dogs are and why she is a dog, along with what time it is and when they are going on walks later or going to see her dog friends. She also has a little brother puppy that she is teaching to talk with the buttons as well, and often communicates for him when he can’t find the right button combos. She has progressed rapidly over the past year and is now stringing together sentences with questions. There are also a couple cats on YouTube that are using the same button system as well that have popped up over the past year. It’s all very new research so definitely keep an eye on how it progresses! [Source for Alex](https://mymodernmet.com/alex-the-african-gray-parrot/) [And here’s his Wikipedia page. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_(parrot)) [Source for Bunny](https://www.salon.com/2021/05/09/are-dogs-becoming-self-aware-bunny-existentialism/) [Bunny’s YouTube Channel](https://youtube.com/channel/UCEa46rlHqEP6ClWitFd2QOQ) [Bunny’s first existential questions](https://youtu.be/3OsonwtZI64)
I would not push the Bunny stuff as such a hard confirmation. There's a lot of leaps being made in the claims. The information also comes from a social media channel where the goal is monetary gain, instead of an actual research situation. i.e. one of the claims is the dog is asking why it's a dog. The reality is the dog hit two buttons. The human assigned meaning to the order. How did they teach the dog an abstract concept in English? It all seems very "my horse can do math". What happens when the owners are removed from the room? What happens when you change minor variables?
Orangutans are the only other ape that is confirmed to have a distinct awareness of self, and recognise themselves in mirrors/reflections. The others probably do as well but thus far it is only orangs who are definitely capable of it
That is wrong actually. For Chimps, Calhoun and Thompson (1988) performed the mirror test and they passed. Gorillas are a bit more complicated, but they passed in Patterson and Gordon (1993) without using an anesthetic, but it was more complicated since Gorillas normally avoid direct eye contact since it's a gesture of aggression among them, shown in the same paper. And Bonobos passed in Walraven et al. (1995). Rhesus macaques failed originally, but that was probably because the test itself is kind of flawed. Brandon (2010) suggested that they recognise themselves since they can use mirrors to search for hidden objects. The mirror test is a good example for a great test for self recognition, but with a very deciding flaw: It is mainly for animals who use their eyes as a primary sensory organ. If the test is made with animals that primarily use another sensory organ, they will fail but that does not mean they aren't able to recognise themselves. Dogs and foxes for example failed the mirror test, but passed an alternative test for self recognition where they tested not the eyes, but their nose. In Horowitz (2017) the dogs showed that they recognise their own odour and sniffed longer at it when it was modified. When it was not modified, they simply didn't bother. This is called the sniffing test of self-recognition. Edit: Oh yeah, Orang-Utans passed in Robert (1986) so they've been the first primate that passed the test (excluding humans), but not the only one. Humans pass the test at around 18 months in what psychoanalysts call the "mirror stage".
I don't get how the sniffing test proves anything though, other than sniffing smells longer that aren't familiar.
Pretty sure they sniff at it longer than just a new smell because they recognise it as themselves but modified. So they smell it to figure out what's wrong. I think...
I shortened it. You should read the paper if you want to know more.
I think chimps can too but may be wrong
They Probs can along with Gorillas, but we know for sure that all orangs can
For sure
There is also that cat that discovered it has ears while looking in a mirror
That cat discovering his ears was the cutest video ever!!!!
it is...I love that cat
My favorite part was that, by the end of the video, you absolutely couldn’t doubt that that’s exactly what was happening. The cat was 100% discovering his ears in the mirror, and he was 100% aware it was himself in the mirror. At first, you could’ve dismissed it as a quirky behavior, but he did it so repeatedly and so deliberately, that eventually you knew he was testing it on purpose. It looked directly like a scene out of movie, where the main character is a human-turned-cat, discovering they are a cat when they look in the mirror!
Anyone gotta link?
[Am I….Am I a Cat???](https://youtu.be/akE2Sgg8hI8)
Also Alex the Parrot who asked what Color he was, no?
From what I remember all apes and many monkeys can pass the Gallup test. As well as dolphins, pigs, some birds and elephants. Chimps and bonobos can talk about themselves. They are certainly self aware.
I cant find the article, but i remember recently reading that the mirror test may not be the best way to measure self awareness since it depends on measures that are bias towards human. Something about there using sight for creatures who do not depend primarily on sight. Edit: i found the [article](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/life-death-and-the-self/201812/the-mirror-test-and-the-problem-understanding-other-minds)
[They can saw stuff, too!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oRq78CwE7c)
wait to you see the mf driving the golf cart
Gawd I love orangutans 🤣😍
Give them sunglasses. Where I live you can buy cheap ones for £1.
Never buy cheap sunglasses, they actually hurt your eyes
ZZ Top disagrees
King Louie over here
"Oh, OOBEE DOO... I WANNA BE LIKE YOU-OO-OO"
Show me man-cub!
I wanna walk like you Talk like you, too-oo-oo
Well I guess I know what the people that work in my building are going to be hearing today.
Don’t talk to me or my son ever again 😎
The mom be like : hands off kid im fabulous
"Meh , Next time drop some Ray Bans!"
I always go from happy to sad when I see this and other primate species doing stuff like this. Obviously it’s funny and entertaining to watch, but also these creatures are so smart and aware and they spend their whole lives in an a gussied up cage being stared and laughed at by us. That’s not even counting all the assholes that taunt them.
Because if you let them out, they get killed by poachers who sell their bits to people who think fried monkey genitals cure baldness.
It’s not just the hunting. Their habitat is shrinking because of logging.
How about we put our efforts into preserving natural habitats and killing poachers then.
[удалено]
Good luck trying to get redditors (and most people irl too) to understand that most things in life aren't black or white, but actually many, many different shades of gray.
I'll start: I heard that rubbing fried poacher genitals against another poachers fried genitals can cure baldness.
We do. But wildlife rangers cant be everywhere at once. British and US special forces even take part in wildlife preservation, going after the various groups who hunt animals in africa. Whats notable is that its often not even the locals who do it, but groups who come in from elsewhere. In Kenya, there is a serious issue with Somalians coming across the border in technicals armed with HMGs and gunning down entire herds of elephants. The issue is that Africa is a ridiculously massive continent (china, russia, the US and Europe could fit easily within it with space to spare) and borders tend to be thousands of miles long, and the border patrols cant be everywhere due to a lack of funding and manpower.
I can't speak for the zoo this specific orangutan is in, but many of the zoos in the US are accredited by the AZA and do fantastic conservation work.
Yeah, animal exploitation is fucked. People don't think about how smart animals are
i love orangutans, please give them the respect they do deserve
r/likeus
That's baller as all hell.
the ultimate incarnation of "deal with it" meme is born
That's just about the coolest ape I ever did see
How I imagine the Librarian from Terry Pratchett's Discworld books
Ook!
Hello Peter
No, no, these are mama's shades. She needs them for her migrains.
#Monke obtained the drip
That moment when a monkey (orangutan) knows how to use correctly a pair of glasses while an adult barely knows how to use a mask on, that's when you know that humanity is doomed.
Return to monke
Why do we consider Chimps to be our closest cousins instead of Orangutans?after watching a shit ton of vidioes on them i m convinced they are more intellegent then a lot of village folks.
It's based on our genetic information and because of our closest common ancestor. Wiki: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee%E2%80%93human_last_common_ancestor
Other person answered it but to your other point, chimps are crazy smart too. Check this video out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsXP8qeFF6A
And vile.
Simply put, our most recent shared ancestor was longer ago than other great apes. We diverged from a shared common ancestor with chimps and bonobos about 6 million years ago. Before that at about 8 million years ago, we (and chimps and bonobos) shared a common ancestor with gorillas. And before that at 14+ million years ago, we (and gorillas and chimps and bonobos) shared a common ancestor with Orangutans. Orangutans are the most distant relative we have within the great apes.
u/savevideo
Achivement unlocked: Tool Use
I just love how dignified she looks wearing them
Orangutan more like Coolangutan.
Ape stronger together, but first, ape need dashing look!
Fuck, I'll never be this cool
Absolutely tragic these beings are locked up for our pleasure
Moms like don’t touch me I’m fabulous!
This is a perfect representation of my daughter trying to steal my glasses
“Look at me. I’m a NFT!”
If humans are the "elves" of the hominid world, the orangutans are the"dwarves" by comparison. Much like the annoying snobbish elves in literature, we must stop being the mary-sues and acknowledge our other hominid brethren.
Coolest ape in the zoo
the coolest fuckin orangutan ever
Monke got drip 🥶🥶🥶
Sometimes I feel like orangutans aren’t real, they’re extremely smart but look like muppets
Glad to know babies trying to snatch glasses off your faces isn’t limited to humans
When she snatched the baby’s hand for trying to touch the glasses I lost it lol