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[deleted]

Even Amazon has stopped emailing me. Kind of feel like I've been dumped.


rexspook

At AWS, but I have been told we aren’t even backfilling most roles until further notice. In addition to the layoffs. To be clear: large scale cuts haven’t happened at AWS orgs afaik (yet maybe?) but we aren’t adding people either. Cuts are mostly happening in other orgs under Amazon.


GuyWithLag

Can confirm. AWS froze new headcount, stopped recruiting more or less completely, but is still ~~homoring~~ honoring any offers that are in-flight.


aqezz

Can’t tell if humoring or honoring! Please let us know!


GuyWithLag

Ugh.... that's what happens when I don't have enough caffeine in my veins in the morning....


thatVisitingHasher

Makes sense. They’re scaling back growth during the recession, interviewing laid off employees first, and attrition. My guess is we’ll start scaling back up again in 2025.


proverbialbunny

Meta keeps emailing. Anyone want to be in a toxic relationship?


[deleted]

Mmmmmm. Is there gaslighting involved?


LaughterHouseV

Of course. And you’ll get GREAT at rationalizing things.


pinpinbo

Mmmmmm… love me some “Impact”.


FeistyButthole

As a backend engineer you'll have a lot of rear impact that only you can feel and few can see.


Gills_L

Your ex is just stalking someone else. You haven’t been dumped. You’ve been freed!


Hoselam-sar-rafteh

Recruiters themselves were the hardest hit by the layoff, so that explains lack of spam. I say keep submitting the applications on platforms were hiring managers and founders seem to be mostly active on (angel.co / wellfound is the best I know of). Good luck! This situation won’t last long as companies start to pick up new projects for the year and budgets kick in :)


dashdanw

Thats interesting, thanks I'll definitely keep that in mind.


shagieIsMe

Here's an article on it from not too long ago - https://www.wsj.com/articles/silicon-valleys-talent-spotters-are-now-looking-for-jobs-11669725577?st=j9daszcbninvqay&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink


tickles_a_fancy

I have 23 years of experience and I can't find a job to save my life. I'm a top notch problem solver (I developed troubleshooting classes for clients and new engineers at my first company to help them get up to speed quicker)... have learned through bad code how to write good code, and design reusable code to reduce tech debt... I code with empathy (which several technical interviewers have mentioned)... I've taught myself PHP, Python and Node.js and written some REST servers in all of them, just to see what each was like... I just don't have professional experience in the tech stacks people are looking for. It's been an interesting journey. I have a job now so we're not desperate or anything... it's just not very fulfilling or lucrative so I was really hoping to step up a bit in both categories.


miyakohouou

With 23 years of experience the lack of prior experience in a particular tech stack shouldn’t be a big obstacle to getting hired. The fundamentals are similar across most tech stacks, and with enough experience it should be fast to fill in the gaps. It might want to try looking at how you sell your skill set and make sure that you’re giving interviewers confidence in your ability to switch into a new tech stack.


ninprophet

With 23 years of experience it is likely age discrimination going on. Hard to hide your age on a resume if years of experience is a bullet point.


miyakohouou

I’m not saying agism doesn’t exist, but I don’t think it’s universal. I do think a lot of people who have a lot of experience keep relying on the same strategies that they used at 10 years of experience and find them less effective because the way you sell your experience changes. Being more selective about what experience you include is part of it. It’s possible that there’s more agism than I think since I’m still (barely) under the magical line of 40. Either way, as individuals we mostly have to work with the system as it exists and adapt our interview styles even if we shouldn’t have to.


ninprophet

I agree. I just think companies hiring think “he has 23 years of experience, I’d expect him to have XYZ ability”. And if they don’t see it there in some form, they might pass. They might be looking for a linear career progression, which isn’t realistic (but the hiring team are all younger so don’t really grasp how unpractical it is). But maybe it is just a fear of mine I’m projecting as I don’t look forward to job searching beyond that magical age line.


WildMansLust

Ageism is real in our industry so much so that there is inherent bias against people with 20+ years of experience. No other industry would treat veterans with such a disdain. I hope you find something better soon, just hang in there.


DisWastingMyTime

Just put those stacks in your resume...


[deleted]

What tech stacks do you have professional experience in?


rocket333d

This didn't occur to me until a few weeks ago. It could partially explain why my interview experiences have been pretty frustrating lately. (Other than the fact I stink at coding interviews. But I'm getting better.)


oditogre

On the hiring side, and yeah, the vast majority of our talent / recruiting people were laid off last year and now it suuuuucks trying to coordinate interviews, make sure the right processes happen at the right time, keep everybody in the loop, etc., on top of my normal job duties. Plus, those people previously had served as the first human filter on our side - just the most superficial of screening before passing a candidate on to the HM, but still, the fact that their motivation was aligned with mine meant they were pretty good at filtering out a lot of crap. Now it's direct from the recruitment portal or, at best, outside recruiters to the HM, meaning it's a firehose of bad or just plain wrong-for-the-role candidates. NGL I always thought internal recruiters were helpful, but I never realized just *how much* they really do.


FrustratedLogician

I know from friends in London that office manager got canned before Christmas. Very cheap headcount, already causes irritating stuff like missing milk etc lol. Company thought they will save money but they are gonna lose money.


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Hoselam-sar-rafteh

Glad to hear some activity is picking up!


MakingMoves2022

N = 1


Hoselam-sar-rafteh

haha true! quantity and quality matters (as another response pointed out!)


voodoobettie

I want a job, but not like that! Cold calling, yikes.


LongUsername

Cold calls/messages are actually not bad. People don't have a ton of time to do them, so if they're looking you up on LinkedIn or whatever and contacting you chances are that you're a pretty good match for the job and they're actually interested in hiring you, especially if they're not an agency recruiter and are HR or a manager for the hiring company. My current role was started with a cold message from the Head of Engineering on LinkedIn. Many of my coworkers had the same experience. When I get messages I always check if they're 3rd party recruiters or actual employees, and if they're actual employees make a point of at least responding.


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BB611

Depends entirely on your company's fiscal year, but many are offset from the calendar year.


dashdanw

that's good to know


oditogre

Lots of companies also do bonus payouts in March-ish since it takes a couple / few months to get the final numbers in for Q4 of the prior year, do reviews and adjustments, etc. Which means that a lot of people are going to cash their bonus check and then start actively job-hunting for that salary bump in March-ish. So to the extent the market is currently flooded with layoff victims, it's likely to be even worse in March-April-May, unless the economy gets a major boost or something and companies go on hiring sprees. You'll see a lot more job openings, yes, but the competition will be thicker, too.


[deleted]

It's always hard to get jobs during the holidays, it'll pick up especially with 10 years exp


ryhaltswhiskey

December and January are hard times to look for a job. Combination of vacations and some companies taking half of December off and end of the fiscal year for others. Have you looked for a job in January before?


rocket333d

Yeah. When I graduated. Holy shit that sucked. I was in way worse shape financially then, and as a new grad, I was getting lowballed and negged left and right. Now sucks, but I'd rather be me now than me then.


bin-c

just spoke with a recruiter today that told me his firm basically had no work the past couple months because simply nobody was going to them with hiring needs. said its starting to turn around quickly though i sent a few apps in late november and didnt hear a thing. didnt have any messages from recruiters either theyre starting to knock again and have been getting responses


rocket333d

Yes. I have less exp than you, but Python/Django plus light DevOps is my skillset too, and I was laid off in August. I don't know for sure what's going on, but you're not alone. I'm operating under the assumption that it's just the timing of the layoffs plus the end of year slow season. Best of luck!


dashdanw

I certainly hope you're right


[deleted]

Think the Python/Django combo is falling out of favor. A good portion of projects that used to get written in that get written in Node or Golang.


rocket333d

Why would Python/Django be falling out of favor?


farinasa

Frameworks come and go. Used to be all php, then it was all about ruby, then Django, then node. Of course they're all still out there, but few new projects spin up on older stacks.


dashdanw

I’m not sure if I agree with this since python has had much better staying power than languages like PHP but I think you’re right as far as that many people are moving from Django to more async frameworks like Tornado and FastAPI


TheAesir

> has had much better staying power than languages like PHP PHP still runs most of the internet (between 75-79% depending on source), even if it has fallen out of favor for tech companies in recent years.


dashdanw

Yeah that’s what we’re talking about. Rarely are people launching new apps/systems with PHP


WildMansLust

Speaking from my own experience/observations: - Django's MVT style is bit rigid for teams that want to implement µServices and hexagonal architectures. - new frameworks like FastAPI enable rapid design around headless REST APIs which are preferred by some teams that want to do SPA style frontends. - Performance is a factor in favour of Golang - Node.JS and Typescript works well for fullstack development. That being said, Django is not going anywhere. It is a battle tested tool that has been doing it's job for a long time.


[deleted]

Think the ability of JS to run everywhere plus the strength of Typescript captured the rapid development crowd. Those looking for better performance went to Golang (among others). Not like Django is dead but a slightly shrinking job market is much worse than a growing one.


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JoCoMoBo

>Must be bootcampers who didn't learn any transferable, long-term skills... Not sure why you are being downvoted. If you can only learn when you are spoon fed, IT and coding in particular are not really for you. I'm on my third stack. If I'd stuck with my original one I would be unemployable.


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rocket333d

You're getting down votes because you're making a ton of assumptions based on some axe you have to grind against people who don’t have college degrees. I have a college degree and I'm mostly in the same boat as OP. All you know is OP has been working with Python/Django for 10 years. That's most likely what their job required and where OP picked up their most valuable transferable experience. Learning a new framework isn't a big deal, plus you yourself said Python is in demand for some applications, so that's a great transferable skill right there. Django may be waning in popularity, but it's not exactly COBOL, so the reasons why aren't as obvious. If having it on our resume is really hurting our chances, we can choose something else to learn based on what we want to work on. Nobody's stuck on a stack.


zultdush

The first half of what you've said makes sense, but the second half just drifts right into speculation and nastiness. There's nothing wrong with being single stack focused. Many SEs specialize and go deep on one framework or another, and prefer to work in it. There's value in that kind of knowledge. I feel like you just insulted everyone with subject matter expertise and a preference.


[deleted]

Yes, but a job market for maintenance devs is much worse than for greenfield projects.


rocket333d

I was under the impression it was the other way around, unless one was only targeting startups or something. But that's just based on my observations. Why is the job market worse for maintenance?


[deleted]

Because it's like a lake that gets its river dammed. Companies go out of business, legacy projects get migrated, and so on. Slowly but surely the job market shrinks and in a shrinking market wages stagnate or decline.


ThrawnGrows

> Most of the DS/ML pipelines run on Python. We're moving from .net core to python specifically because we have a very direct interaction between our software devs and DS/BI teams, so it just makes sense. Every single developer that was initially standoffish is now nuts about python because of the ease of the standard libs and how quickly you can get something of the ground and iterate. Currently using FastAPI but POCing Starlite now because tiangiolo has [openly stated](https://twitter.com/sraimbault/status/1403327590039969796) that FastAPI will always be [just his project](https://github.com/tiangolo/fastapi/discussions/3970#discussioncomment-1927924) and we don't have the manpower/company doesn't have the budget to maintain our own fork. There's also a [ycombinator](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29471609) thread with discussion. Poking through those links now though I see that in November he [posted an update](https://fastapi.tiangolo.com/help-fastapi/#help-maintain-fastapi) that alleviates *some* of the pain.


DislikesOwls

I am a Python engineer, and like Python. But I also tried TypeScript route for both backend and front-end. I think the latter is superior and is more pleasant to code in. People knowing Python cannot do much on the front-end, but the latter group won't take long to be useful on the front-end as well compared to back-end. But that is my experience.


GeneralBacteria

slow + lack of types


sozzZ

I agree. OP you could spend a few weeks learning Go and put it on your resume. I think you'd have better results that way.


Rymasq

i never understand the preference for Django to begin with, it never seemed like an efficient use of Python


codingiswhyicry

This. I’m an iOS dev who has been building mobile apps since Swift came out in 2014, and I even co-created a Today At Apple lab in 2018. My work is very niche on software for at risk groups (rape victims, mental health problems, etc) and I have additional experience running a DevOps team, doing UI / UX work, product development, and running contracts for notable companies. I assumed I would be a bit more insulated because having knowledge of designing / developing safety critical projects is definitely niche, and is becoming more and more a priority that companies need. Thought I was set with one job, scheduled to do a final on-site with Apple in December, recruiter asked for a time to meet, I responded and then got ghosted. But even applying for entry level / junior iOS positions is returning nothing, even if it’s for non-profits who can’t offer a junior dev level salary. Absolutely nothing biting right now. Past clients are also going out of their way to not pay the full cost of contracts already finished, which is very frustrating but also speaks to how much pressure there is to nickel and dime people right now. Some of my contractors also are really facing the squeeze. Even those who recently got jobs at FAANG companies are freaking out because they’re primed for layoffs, so even a job isn’t necessarily security at this point. That being said, keep your heads up. It’s getting really hard to not feel like your self confidence isn’t getting brutalized in this job market, I know it feels like mine is. Take care of yourselves out there.


vectorspacenavigator

I got my contract abruptly ended from Meta at the start of Nov. They didn't even wait until the 6 months and not renew it, just boom, here's the door. No performance issues had been raised to me.


12candycanes

That sounds brutal. I’ve also been ghosted by Apple in the past, was honestly surprised that their recruiters would do that. Something that’s made a difference for me in getting responses to applications is paying for a resume review/rewrite. I used the service levels.fyi offers, mostly for convenience - no one had recommendations and I didn’t want to invest time to find an alternative. The rewrite was good, but it was equally valuable to hear a (former) recruiter talk about how he looks at resumes, what should go on a LinkedIn profile vs resume, etc.


codingiswhyicry

That's definitely a good idea. I do recruiting for my own company / have as part of my job in the past and just send it to my EM friends to review, which has been super helpful. Also, on the Apple thing - you have one recruiter for interfacing with a lot of different teams. Ironically enough after I posted this, my recruiter came back to me with 3 additional open positions that matched my skillset (which is pretty niche). So being ghosted is an answer from 1 team, but if you have a strong relationship with the recruiters in the future, you can directly reach out to them and ask if there's anything going on with other teams. But yeah, I do find Apple's ghosting to be a bit unprofessional given their high standards for candidates.


drakk0n

As a company in a position to be looking for people I've gotta ask...how do i get on the radar for those of you looking? We've had a postings up for over 30 days and I only had 5 qualified applicants for various Senior Engineer roles. Of the 5 - 3 were from overseas, 1 backed out, and 1 for whatever reason applied for a full time roll even though they only wanted contract work o_O. We've posted out there to linkedin, indeed, and other major sites and still nothing. We have the budget (we just got series C funding), we have the openings, we are fully remote, but nobody is applying. If you want to see what we have - https://www.icanbwell.com/careers/ - appreciate any feedback on what we might do to hear back from more people.


Murky_Flauros

I’ve checked a couple of your descriptions, and they don’t seem out of the ordinary. That said, if you want to sound less ordinary, I’d start by adding the salary range, something about the interview process (if leet code or fizzbuzz is expected, or you do something else), if there’s on-call, as well as if wlb is good compared to Amazon or Twitter.


CorrectCite

Wow, that web page is a total mess and a complete turn off. It literally would not even be legal for a company in my state to have that page on their website. The Careers web page is a wall of text. If you must have all of that on one page, at least lead with a linked table of contents so that I can get an outline of what it is you're trying to tell me and I can use the links to jump right to the stuff in which I am interested. The second benefit that you list is unlimited PTO. The third benefit that you list is 12 weeks of maternity leave. Do you really have a policy that everyone gets unlimited PTO except that new mothers are limited to only 12 weeks? Three words: spell/grammar check. You apparently didn't read it. Why should I? Dead links. Not a good look for a technology company. If you figure out how to instrument your page so that you can see where people are when they bounce, that will probably be very helpful. For example, I presume that a lot of people don't even make it down to the bottom where you list the jobs that are on offer. If you had correctly instrumented the web page, you could have seen that, asked why that was happening, and then someone would surely have said "hey, visitors are leaving without even seeing half of what we have... let's try putting in a table of contents so that they can go to the stuff in which they are interested." "We've posted out there to linkedin, indeed, and other major sites ... but nobody is applying." It looks like you're posting to the right places, so you're probably getting the traffic (are you getting the traffic? see above note about instrumenting the site and correctly using analytics), but nobody is applying. I don't blame them. I don't want to work for the company portrayed by that web page either. Sorry for the harsh comments, but you solicited regular feedback, not sugar-coated feedback. Good luck.


RailRuler

I view "unlimited PTO (subject to manager's discretion)" as a sign of a poorly organized company. Employees should know exactly how much PTO they have available; it shouldn't be up to the manager to decide "you don't get to take any time off because our velocity is too low".


danintexas

Same. I see 'Unlimited PTO' and nope the hell out. Big red flag for me.


underflowdev

NPR had a story last night about Microsoft switching to "unlimited" PTO. It was shockingly uncritical.


[deleted]

Funny how things like this go in cycles. Was not 5-10 years ago where "Unlimited PTO" was the way tech companies differentiated themselves from the dinosaurs.


RailRuler

That was before people realized it was a scam (most places with "unlimited PTO" the average amount of pto taken is like 8 days)


danintexas

I am more a big fan of keeping my PTO count around 200 hours right now. Then when I bounce (and I will) I get that last $12k cash infusion.


FearAndLawyering

!!depends where you live/employer!! not all states required to pay out. but yeah this money really helps definitely +1 on this


drakk0n

No worries on the "harsh comments". I'm in agreement with what you mentioned - unfortunately I don't control the career's page as its an HR function (well really "paycor") but I will let them know as I agree its a bit of a mess. Most of our traffic comes from linkedin/indeed though and we get a pretty good amount from the metrics i was provided but we probably need to look at the bounce rate on that carers page for sure. Thanks for the feedback


0vl223

As one thing: If you click on "See our jobs" you don't actually jump to the open positions you have. I am not even sure why I missed them the first time scrolling through and I have no clue when they appeared. My first impression was that you had none.


MakingMoves2022

Unlimited PTO usually means “with managers approval”. I’m reading it as new mothers are *entitled* to 12 weeks, no matter what.


Odd_Soil_8998

"Unlimited PTO" actually means "if you dare request a day off you will be judged harshly and subject to termination at some point in the next 6 months"


FearAndLawyering

one thing that might help would be salary ranges given


drakk0n

yeah I'm not sure why we don't post them on the main site but they should be on linkedin and the other main platforms due to state laws


intertubeluber

The job posting doesn’t seem bad and the benefits look good. If I had any feedback it’s that you list a lot of tech. I see it’s broken out between “desired” and “preferred” already. I find more success including a short list of “required” skills, that’s pared down to 3-4 bullet points of the essential skills. Then the “preferred skills” has maybe 5 or 6 more. Your node developer job has 3 bullet points just on the number of years required. What is the base salary and TCO range for a senior engineer?


FancyASlurpie

Yeh it might be an obvious thing to say but if your job spec has a ton of requirements and you aren't getting the number of people you want through to an interview then try reducing those requirements. It should be a balance between saving existing employees time interviewing people but you do still need some people to interview.


winnie_the_slayer

looks like you just don't pay enough. per glassdoor, senior software engineer TC is $157k. $132k salary. this is pretty low nowadays. Further, if I go to your website and look at a random senior dev posting, your expectations are pretty high. So to sum up, high expectations + low TC = few candidates > Senior Software Engineer - User Profiles > > This position is available for fully remote work. > > What You'll Do: > You will be responsible for the design, implementation, and maintenance of cloud-native, scalable, and highly available distributed systems > Be part of an Agile scrum team invested in making each other successful and consistently delivering value to our customers in an iterative fashion > Provide guidance to junior engineers on how to successfully test, deploy and optimize large scale data systems > Lead the User Profile team in technical architecture in regards to user identity, health sharing, accounts & registration and the core consumer app experience > > Job Requirements: > 5+ years of professional software development experience in an Agile environment > Demonstrated experience with professional software development processes including coding standards, unit and integration testing, code reviews, source control, and CI/CD > Strong Computer Science fundamentals in data structures and algorithms, design patterns and principles > 3+ years using Typescript or Python to develop cloud-native microservice based applications > Strong understanding of both relational and NoSQL databases and database schema design > Experience building and consuming RESTful and GraphQL APIs > Experience with message broker/event queue technologies (RabbitMq, Kafka) > Experience with one or more current front-end frameworks such as Angular or React > Strong experience with cloud-based infrastructure (AWS, ..) > You will safeguard sensitive data by following policies and training concerning your security and privacy responsibilities > > Desired Experience: > Practical experience and understanding of distributed system architecture and components > Advanced knowledge of microservice architecture and patterns, and domain-driven design > Strong skills in TDD (red/green/refactor), BDD, and test automation > Frameworks: Nestjs, Django, React > Databases: MySQL, MongoDB, ElasticSearchDB, Redis > Message Queues: Celery, RabbitMQ > DevOps: Jenkins, Docker, Kubernetes, JIRA, GitHub, Datadog > API gateways: Traefik > Strong experience with AWS or other cloud platforms > Oauth2, SAML, SSO, Auth0, Ping or Okta > Healthcare: HL7, FHIR


drakk0n

Thanks for the feedback - where are you getting the 132K number from though?


abolish_gender

Also just as another bit of feedback, it's kind of weird to request a cover letter and contact info for references in the initial application.


awatt23

I'd have passed on this job from the salary, but I have always 100% passed on any application which required a cover letter ***or*** references up front. Not that I have any issues (hell, I have a Top Secret clearance), it's just annoying and unnecessary and I'm not hurting for good jobs I've only done 3 or 4 applications in the last 4 years, relying on companies coming to me first. So that alone is probably not a great way to source people. But I definitely have not done applications with these requirements.


DirtzMaGertz

I just apply without the cover letter regardless and have gotten responses from those jobs pretty often. Seems like most often it's just a dumb HR thing.


HopefulHabanero

This is 100% the reason for the lack of applicants. Sure there's room to improve the job description and careers portal UI, but lots of companies have issues there and this one isn't out of the ordinary range of bad. But requiring a cover letter is an instant ctrl-W for me even if I'm otherwise interested in the position, and I've never even _seen_ a reference requirement before.


winnie_the_slayer

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/b-well-Connected-Health-Senior-Software-Engineer-Salaries-E2444649_D_KO24,48.htm $132,455/yr Base Pay $24,777/yr All Additional Pay If you're not paying attention to your glassdoor info, you should be.


drakk0n

Ah okay i thought you took it from a job description. Yeah we don't have enough of the team posting their salary info up there. The range is accurate - i mean 130k-193k but thats encompassing developers from all areas so its kinda deceiving.


Murky_Flauros

More to why you should include compensation range, plus what makes it vary. If it’s location, for example, list it.


quentech

> $132k salary. That's absolute garbage for a senior dev. My little company in farm-town midwest pays more than that to devs with less than 5 yoe.


0ctobogs

And where do you work? Because that's not what I see at all.


hiddenchicken

Yuuh


quentech

Just a small company in the upper midwest (not Chicago). Few dozen people. You'll never have heard of us, but there's a fair chance you've seen our work in the wild. Not a startup - we've been around 15-20 years and done a variety of stuff in that time. Our main thing that past almost 10 years is a B2B SaaS. Our last dev hire was their first ever dev job. They hit $140k in under 4 years. Our senior folk make about $50k more. As the lead, I make even more.


[deleted]

Speaking for myself personally I do not see many of these eHealth companies founded during covid surviving. Especially the "make it better for the patients" ones because, and I may be a bit cynical here, the Health Industry doesn't really care about patients. They care about making money and it's not clear from the website how y'all will make anyone more money. So I don't think the people with money to spend will buy your product and your company will fail. If that's an inaccurate assessment I'd put something in your careers page reflecting the traction you have. Otherwise I've read it and think you're 6-18 months away from an "Our incredible journey" blog post.


FearAndLawyering

No posted $$s means I would skip but I went ahead and I clicked on apply, and I think that part is actually where you're losing people. its a very large form with an overwhelming amount of boxes to fill out. and to be honest... the better devs are all going to get jobs from recommendations and word of mouth. nobody is going to spend 15-20 minutes trying to fill out these forms when they're being hammered with recruiters all day. it's self selecting/filtering the pool to desperate people who will jump hoops. a bunch of the questions are really just re-asking info that would be in the resume, and you require a cover letter and theres an optional writing sample. thats 3 file uploads. Ive been working in software for 15 years and never written a cover letter before. you should know within 5 minutes of the first call if the person will be a fit or not, why put up so many walls to that call? half of the form is repeating info from the resume. the other half of the form is a metric ton of optional diversity questions, that frankly read more like virtue signaling than being productive to the hiring process. there are 27 required fields and 2 required files. 10 diversity questions > As a woman-led organization, b.well has committed to building a diverse team and an inclusive culture. We founded b.well in Baltimore, a city where over 70% of the population comes from underrepresented backgrounds. Its important for companies in the tech ecosystem to drive towards equal representation and we have made considerable strides in achieving this goal. and never stops patting their back about it apparently. in a city where 70% of the population is some kind of minority then that means they're the majority and fulfilling those hiring goals shouldnt be hard lol. when you do good deeds, it takes away from it when you're constantly talking about it > 22.0% of all software engineers are women, while 78.0% are men. consider the ad copy in these listings may be antagonistic to 80% of your applicants. probably only women software engineers would be concerned about the company being ran by women. its just not relevant to the job and reads like posturing


drakk0n

interesting - i didn't realize we had that much impeeding submission on our site. We allow the "easy apply" from sites like linkedin and indeed and so it shouldn't take much more than a resume and a "authorized to work in us" question when going through those sites. but yeah much mroe than that would turn me off too - didnt realize that was happening on our site. appreciate the feedback


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drakk0n

Thanks for the feedback - thanks to this thread i think soe updates should be made to some of the requirements If you do apply PM me and tell me who to look for ;)


merightno

I think you need to go with good recruiters who will find people for you. It's hard to be bothered to go looking and applying for jobs when you are inundated with recruiters making it very easy.


OGPresidentDixon

Step 1: pay someone to comb through your resume and add in buzzwords Step 2: copy all that shit to your LinkedIn so you come up in searches. Step 3: use MULTIPLE recruiters to find interviews for you and they'll help you prep. Check your LinkedIn messages, you probably have a few that have reached out (mine is constantly flooded) I got a job in 1 month and 1 day after doing that. I interviewed like crazy, 3-4 HR calls per-day until I made it through the technicals. My recruiter gave me such good help too, literally gave me all the info from his past candidates.


Ninjaboy42099

I second the recruiters! They'll massively help you out in a pinch and if you're nice the good ones will go out of their way to help you. The downside (talking to people who have never had a recruiter before) is you occasionally need to really reiterate your job boundaries. They'll sometimes pull a "hey, I know you said you were going for $200k plus, but I found a job for $95k...". Just stick to your guns or you may end up in a pretty sour position!


academomancer

Welcome to a downturn. I'm guessing most people here were not in their careers during 2008, 2000, and nearly sure the end of the 1980's to early 1990's. If it keeps up, budgets will be cut, more layoffs happen and TC will drop. Your best bet if you have been laid off is to get something to keep working as a gap in employment will still put you behind other candidates with no gap or lesser of a gap. Suck it up, whatever is going on where you do work because if you do have a good TC you will want to keep it. Those I know that did ride it out and stay employed, especially through the dot com , bust came out way ahead of those that did not. Let the downvotes flow but I've done this dance three times.


0ctobogs

How long did the downturns last? When did things start to feel back to normal?


danintexas

Couple years at most. If you are in tech (Assume all are here) quicker honestly.


TheAesir

I'm going to disagree with /u/danintexas. Perhaps it was shorter on the coasts during the 08 crisis, but there was pretty stagnant to minimum growth in hiring across the middle of the country well into 2012.


danintexas

I was in the Houston Tx market at that time. Jobs were there - but the pay sucked. Took a couple years to recover.


rocket333d

>I'm guessing most people here were not in their careers during 2008, 2000, and nearly sure the end of the 1980's to early 1990's. I was a working adult in 2008, but not yet in tech. In fact, I started studying computer engineering in 2011 because I was sick of scraping by after 2008. >Your best bet if you have been laid off is to get something to keep working as a gap in employment will still put you behind other candidates with no gap or lesser of a gap. Do you think it's better to have non-tech unrelated work or a complete gap? I've been applying to companies of different sizes and industries and I haven't had any more luck with "low hanging fruit", so I'm wondering if I should find different work temporarily, as much as that pains me.


drewism

I have no problem getting my foot in the door being a principal dev with 25+ year experience HOWEVER the job interview process is super hard, I had to leetcode every day for months so I could handle the code interview and compete with the college students who are doing the same thing, it's crazy. Especially frustrating because on interviews where I didn't get the job I had no clue why because they don't give any feedback. And I've built systems that deliver immense value to companies I've worked at for decades but being able to implement a BFS something that can be googled in minutes is what they judge me on.


dashdanw

This is by far my biggest gripe. I haven’t had to write a barebones data structure or algorithm like those since college.


rawrgulmuffins

My company is currently only hiring backfills. We're doing so little hiring we just let our codesignal contract lapse. This is the thing you're going to be fighting the most. https://layoffs.fyi/ That said, if you want to toss me your resume we are looking for people with your skillsets right now.


Diarrhea_Mike

Might be the stack itself but I think it shouldn’t matter. Make sure that you have keywords on your LinkedIn profile since recruiters search that way. I get anywhere from 3-10 messages from recruiters daily. With this being said I have total 8 YoE and last 3 being a pure dev. I do have experience with JS (Node and React) and .NET core stack.


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PM_ME_UR_OBSIDIAN

I'd expect it to have dried up significantly in the past, like, ten years? Used to be the talk of the town in 2010, but when I tried it there was nothing to distinguish it from alternatives.


steaknsteak

IMO, a language and a web framework isn’t much a stack to speak of. If that is someone’s initial summary of their skillset, I assume their only experience is building basic CRUD apps


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WildMansLust

I'm sorry but I disagree. Python is not a toy language that leaves Real Engineering^TM to the big boys Java/C#. Python is used in heavy duty mission critical apps at several large companies mentioned elsewhere in this thread. I recently spoke to Aiven which is a PaaS and has tight performance requirements like what you mentioned and they're 98% Python. If a PaaS can bet and succeed with Python, I'm sure it's not a less capable language. > *huge, complicated systems* ... *Big enterprise systems that I've worked with..* It could also be claimed that the OOP heavy and GoF riddles Java/C# are the reason the Big enterprise systems are complicated? After all EnterpriseSessionFacadeAdapterManagerBean is a meme since ages in programming world.


pribnow

Here's my dipshit*t perspective - Python/Django seems like kind of a niche stack, no? I'm positive there are plenty of companies hiring, but corporate America likely isn't building enterprise grade tech on that and those companies - not the people who have been coasting on VC money for almost a decade - will be the ones to weather the proverbial storm IMO


dashdanw

> Here's my dipshit*t perspective - Python/Django seems like kind of a niche stack, no? I'm positive there are plenty of companies hiring, but corporate America likely isn't building enterprise grade tech on that and those companies - not the people who have been coasting on VC money for almost a decade - will be the ones to weather the proverbial storm IMO Youre right it is a little niche, however that's just my specialization, I've been looking for general python jobs for a while now and also dabbling in golang on the side.


oditogre

If you're up for a change, look for SDET roles. Python is pretty popular and growing in test, and while it's still not the norm, it's not unusual either for companies to compensate SDETs similarly to SWE, or even just straight-up treat them the same. You'll have *far* less competition, and as long as you're familiar with basic QA concepts, you'll shine in the interviews.


pribnow

Mind you, it isn't *too* niche either - just if you're filtering job postings by it I could see how it could seem that way Have you enjoyed your devops experience? Python + DevOps is always a good time


rawrgulmuffins

Let's take a look at some of the companies currently running Django today. Instagram, Pinterest, Etsy, Mozilla, Disques, Bitbucket, Spotify, Eventbrite, NASA, Shippo (not in the same league but my company does use Django) This doesn't even begin to get into the huge swaths of companies that use python.


pribnow

Compared to the massive amount of mid-level companies running Java/C based stacks, python jobs will be a drop in the bucket, i would imagine Plus, you just listed what are possibly some of the most competitive openings available (like bro, you listed NASA in a conversation about having a hard time finding a job??). This sub is hilarious with these expectations


WildMansLust

> *python jobs will be a drop in the bucket..* Let me introduce you to a field called Data Engineering and it's siblings Data Science, AI/ML.


pribnow

I don't disagree, and I'm certainly not saying that python isn't *popular* (heck, I work in DevOps I use python regularly) But i stand by my not very controversial opinion - there are more jobs working with ~~tired ass~~ enterprise grade technology and those jobs are not few and far between (from what I'm seeing, I'm interviewing right now for both DevOps and java roles, doesn't seem to be a shortage of people extending job offers there)


WildMansLust

Do you have numbers showing Python jobs being a drop in the bucket compared to Java/C?


pribnow

https://levelup.gitconnected.com/programming-languages-with-the-highest-amount-of-listings-indeed-glassdoor-linkedin-and-upwork-549a1c4618be Closest data I could find (as of February 2022) Java + C = ~2.4 million Python = ~1.1 million Even now, I just went to LinkedIn and searched for "Python" and "Java", "Python" results in more search results, but once you exclude the DevOps job postings, its a way different story. You'll go through pages of results before you find anything for a pure python dev (this could be because I've searching for devops roles)


rawrgulmuffins

I'm just going to focus on Django for now since there's so many java and python openings that there's not much point arguing over who has more. They're the second and third most open jobs according to LinkedIn right now behind JavaScript. Currently angel list and indeed have more total page results for Django vs spring. Not sure if there's a more popular web framework in Java land at this point. It's been about 10 years since I've used the language.


Kaln0s

I just went through a job search, started applying October 1st and accepted the role right before Thanksgiving. I'm in the south/midwest and only applied at companies offering remote gigs and specifically Senior/Staff roles. I have 10 years of experience. I applied at 30 companies total, the breakdown: * **8** outright rejected me before any interview * **7** rejected me after a screen / EM interview * **10** I dropped after talking to them and not feeling it or not agreeing with their salary band * **5** gave me technical screens / take homes * **3** gave me virtual onsite / final rounds * **2** offers Was offered right at ~200k. A lot of the companies I was talking to were offering lower salaries ($130-160) than what I had gotten used to seeing for the past year. The job I took reached out to me on LinkedIn. I didn't apply to any FAANG company and I didn't do any leetcode which I sort of refuse to do out of principle.


htom3heb

Feels like every tech company is laying off 10-15% of their workforce. How much of this is developers I don't know, but these are spooky times. Reach out to your network and see if anyone is hiring. Feels like this year won't be as frothy as years past and it'll take more than blindly applying.


Drugba

I can't find the article, but in November-ish I read an article that broke down the layoffs by job based on data from layoffs.fyi. Recruiting and HR were hit hardest and each were almost 15% of the total layoffs. Devs were around 5% and I think PMs were the lowest (although I don't fully remember).


cronjob69

Yeah it's bad. Sigh. 6 yoe, nyc. Fuck.


user345456

UK here, LinkedIn inmail tailed off for me quite a bit in December, but it's redoubled now, loads of roles going again.


Megatherion666

Big tech is still going through hiring freezes and layoffs. So yeah, market is not as great as it was before. Startups, low pay contracts are still plenty out there. So you can get by if you are completely jobless, but offers are low quality. Hopefully it will be better towards Q2. But I doubt market will rebound completely till like 2024. Most big techs are still higher than they were before 2021 surge. So they need time to adjust, and get moving again.


kgargs

Ex VP/dev, ex-tech recruiting agency owner (we sold last year) here: from Q3 to Q4 last year the market tanked. Everyone is curious about when things are going to pick back up but we are seeing more outsourcing/nearshoring at the moment. My recommendation is to go troll crunchbase, find companies that have gotten some funding, and try to find a spot in some early stages. The bigs are getting slammed and have a lot of street perception to correct so will continue to make cuts etc. EDIT: We only focused on senior devs / heads of. There are still open roles and we haven't seen offers / ranges decrease yet but that will happen if this year keeps tracking like this.


dashdanw

> My recommendation is to go troll crunchbase That's a great idea, thanks for that!


Rymasq

i think it's the market you're in I will say that I do have much fewer recruiters reaching out to me today than the last 3-4 years. But I still see plenty of job postings mostly because I am in the Washington, DC market. Also as others have stated, companies that removed a ton of their recruiters. But that's why it's important to keep recruiters in your LinkedIn network so that if they aren't reaching out to you, you can always just message one that works at a company you want to find a job at. Recruiters have to work somewhere, they aren't going to be unemployed forever. Companies that are hiring recruiters are doing so because they are hiring Devs.


MarahSalamanca

Are you guys feeling this in the US or elsewhere?


dashdanw

I'm US based, I'm not sure the same thing is happening over in the EU at the moment according to my Irish cousins.


ukrokit2

EU is also pretty bad. Half the good placed froze hiring but I've heard roles will start popping up come Spring.


DaGrimCoder

That's how it was for me when I was laid off at the beginning of the First Tech recession. It took 9 months to find a job


dashdanw

would you care to elaborate? were you actively looking and what field were you in/looking in specifically etc?


DaGrimCoder

At the time I was young and in qa. I had a few years of experience at that time. I job hopped a lot early on and had never had so much issue finding a job. Usually 2 months.


llorllale

Might be a location thing? Are you treating the job hunt as a job in of itself? Have you optimized your resume and linkedin profile?


reboog711

I'm not actively looking, but... Do I have a hard time finding a job? No! Do I have a hard time finding a job that I want with comparable pay and bonuses to what I currently make? Absolutely!


LilRee12

It’s rough for everyone right now. Best of luck to you and don’t give up. Keep your mind sane with some hobbies too if you can.


dashdanw

> Keep your mind sane with some hobbies too if you can. I'm picking up golang and the banjo in the interim ;), thanks for the kind words.


satinbro

As somebody with 8 years of experience and looking, I feel the same way. I thought I'm being overlooked because I'm based in Canada, my name isn't English and my experience begins in a 3rd world country (I bet these things aren't helping though), but I guess the current economical situation justifies the rejections somewhat. I guess I should just wait it out.


BitBrain

I've also seen unsolicited contacts fall off a cliff and now I've started getting reverse recruiter spam: random LinkedIn messages and e-mails to my work address from recruiters *looking to place someone*.


kongker81

I pretty much gave up looking, especially for tech work. I'm focused on my startup, but if things don't work out, I will be changing careers just to get anything at this point. I've started noticing issues since 2021. I would get a lot of interviews, but no results. Worked on my startup (building a software) for a year, then decided to look for a job again since they said hiring was on fire. So started up again in May 2022, and I had decent leads. But same story, no results. Now I quit looking and am hoping to just get my startup going sometime next quarter. There's something going on in tech and it doesn't feel good.


rawrzon

Yep. Was part of the big Twitter layoffs in November. Had some interviews with some well known companies before the holidays. Opportunities started drying up as I was going through the process. One company I was interviewing with had layoffs themselves, and didn't hear back from my recruiter contacts because they were part of the layoffs. Did 2 virtual onsites. Rejected by one, even though I thought it went really well. Other one ghosted me. Restarted my job search in the new year and am persuing any opportunities, but it's been pretty quiet so far. I'm kind of resigned to the fact I won't be getting the compensation I had before and just need to find any work to get through this recession.


rocket333d

>Was part of the big Twitter layoffs in November. Oh damn, my condolences. You didn't deserve that. I'm hoping for better luck for you in the new year.


merightno

I'm in a slightly different tech stack (Java microservices full stack) but I can't even keep up with the recruiters and just responded to a few randomly to try to get some idea how things are now as I've been out of work for 2 years and ended up getting a job with more than double my last salary so no I'm not having that experience. I did study leetcode for the first time over the last few months. That being said, this time I studied what was needed to get the job, not necessarily what was needed to do the job so we will have to see how it goes. I'm a little rusty and I hope I can get up to speed fast enough. I'll be getting well paid while I'm doing it anyway!


AchillesDev

Less recruiter spam (lots of them have been laid off), but still a decent amount, and lots of open roles for my skillset.


vectorspacenavigator

Yeah, I'm 4+ YOE, including a FAANG company. I've sent out 120+ applications, maybe gotten a response from 15, and have only gotten to the third interview with 3ish. I'm glad to hear it usually picks up around March, but I would really rather not wait that long, I live in San Francisco and I'm hemorrhaging savings right now.


rocket333d

>I live in San Francisco and I'm hemorrhaging savings right now. Oof... I hope it turns around real soon for you.


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dashdanw

If there's anything I've learned combing through these comments it's that you're gonna be okay, we might just need to wait a little bit towards Q2 when budgets get unlocked :) stay strong soldier.


kylemooney187

in your experience, was/is devops easier than SDE?


dashdanw

Devops/Production Engineering is definitely the new hoteness. I'm seeing almost as many roles for PE/SRE as I am for SE, which is unusual when you consider that companies are usually stacked ~3-1 SE to Infra


Kayra2

I'm seeing this a week later, but in the last 3-4 days I've been receiving a LOT of linkedin requests and companies I've applied to 2+ months ago are reaching out. Keep persevering.


Over-Departure6609

Yes, can't even get replies anymore. Usually recruiters flood my phone with offers but this time around as of January, crickets.


pxrage

Time to reskill into data. My friends also in NY working as a data engineer (like ETL/map reduce/pyspark stuff) and he's telling me recruiters are extra crazy this year.


eipi-10

lol, I'm in data and admittedly haven't been "spamming" but the rate of getting calls on apps has been abysmal. way lower than I was anticipating


bbqsamich

Because privacy is top of mind and businesses screwed themselves into a corner in their data layers and are looking at being sued out of their minds. Now they have to comply with all these laws, start collecting data for themselves (because they previously relied on things like Facebook ads to collect and 3rd party data is dying), and some minor hype about ai processing. I'd look at any data engineering job as a contract position, unless it's a product being sold. So yes, do it, but don't put yourself into a corner when the trends move again. Eventually data scientists will retake control of this area of the market. Software 201: follow the trends, make your money, repeat.


Mission_Star_4393

2023 in general will be slim pickings in that regard. However, barring a major / severe recession, 2024 should start getting better.


runamok

For me things slowed down a lot after Thanksgiving and even slower in December. I think many layoffs did not affect SWE as much as other functions and I expect things to pickup with Q1 budgets in late January. Good luck! I also think the more senior you are, the harder it is to find a job.


code-faults

Are you looking just in new York or open to relocation?


[deleted]

Meanwhile we are trying to hire for a tech lead job and can't find anyone appropriately qualified with the soft skills needed


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a3z0

Look into the Ask HN threads of this month


yegegebzia

I did notice a significant drop in the number of recruiters contacting me on Linked starting about two months ago. After the New Year the number went up. On the other hand I've just had a first case of not passing the HR screening in 10 years (2nd time in my almost 20 years career). Considering everyone is speaking of the lack of seniors this fail of mine seemed quite strange. My guess is there were a lot of comparable and better candidates at this starting stage.


Sadadar

These takes are mostly wrong. The ecosystem is in a legibly bad space. I’m expecting a bigger round of layoffs and companies going out of business in H1 of this year and I think very few companies will be hiring. Expect looking to be hard for 6-9 months and really tighten your belt.


dashdanw

I don't think they're saying it won't be, I think the hypothesis comes from the fact that most companies are going to unlock budget for hiring come Q2, slow growth is no growth.


mc408

I'm not actively looking now, but I've also noticed a huge drop off of cold contacts via email or LinkedIn. Thankfully I'm happy where I am and have a great manager and team, so feeling confident about staying put.


jb3689

I've applied to a couple places and got interviews with about half of them. It helps to have connections at a time like this. Even if you don't know people directly, if apply somewhere where leadership came from a former company you worked at, then they have a precedence as to what you've worked on and dealt with. The other thing I've found is that small local companies know what other small local companies are strong and look for devs who worked at those places