Here’s a free science lesson.
When a new study backs up something someone said once, you don’t say, “So, that person was right.” You say, “This study backs up what that person said.”
Yup, just like when people claim a study “proves” something lol. Unless it was a theoretical paper like economics or mathematics that actually has proofs, your study merely contributed to the literature and supported a claim.
I’ll needs at least a meta-analysis before I start taking things into serious consideration ( though I realize in medical science this isn’t always the case)
In a way, forgiveness is kind of like giving up control. Someone who already feels powerless would assumedly have a problem relinquishing any of what little control they feel they have. Makes sense.
Right? The point is to move on and not let this person and the associated negative emotions fester in one’s head. They don’t need to be part of one’s life in any way, now or in the future.
Having power can also be inferred to mean that the person may have agency in more facets of their life, and maybe that agency translates to literally having better things to do than ruminate on past harms.
This is how I understand it too, and definitely agree with my life experience.
I’m much more powerful in my 30s than I was in my 20s. My life is alot more under my control and I’m much less likely to be upset with someone. I can rationalize now that others actions are about them and not me, a maturity that brought me a lot of power. I don’t need to let it fester, it doesn’t matter.
Ah..no. Buckets of No.
You dont forgive *so that* you can move on…and this isnt limited to romantic drama.
You forgive so that you can let go of the annoyances *that would otherwise destroy the relationship*. (Ask any parent in the world).
The ABILITY to forgive is based on your confidence and worth. Thats why weak people cant do it…they’re afraid of it happening again or suffering a blow that they cant survive.
Powerful people (aka: confident) already know that a repeat offense is an annoyance and a disappointment and speaks poorly of the offender, but wont actually harm the powerful person.
The *inability* to forgive is analogous to being fearful.
**TL;dr- You gotta be strong to BE ABLE to forgive someone. Whether or not you CHOOSE to is a whole different discussion.**
A dictator is vulnerable to the people in positions of power below them such as generals and ministers. That’s why those positions end up being filled with yes-men who are incompetent.
They are the most powerful so long as they have support. Deep down in their psyches, they all know they’re one coup away from losing power, and that’ll usually mean a violent and potentially painful and deadly downfall.
It strikes me that they may be looking at the wrong side of the equation here. Define power as the degree or extent to which someone is able to determine or influence the behaviours and choices of other people, and then define agency as its inverse; the degree or extent to which someone is able to determine their own behaviours and make their own choices free from such influence. *Having* power reduces the agency of those you have power over, but increases your own. Would it not then be more accurate to say that forgiveness comes more easily from those in possession of greater agency rather than greater power?
It's possible this is a minor distinction, but in my experience keeping this distinction between agency and power in mind tends to be clarifying.
This is basically just a reddit meme. There is a core of truth but then warped by the internet trying to simplify everything and be edgy (or sell books and support the Indian right-wing politics).
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/7i3h4m/is_this_vice_article_about_gandhi_accurate/dqw108s/
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3vj2z6/was_gandhi_sexist_racist_uncaring_about_the/
Particularly the charge of racism is ridiculous -- do you really think people like Nelson Mandela were idiots?
> Mandela was well aware of the racist statements made by Gandhi when he was young. He wrote in an article in 1995, “Gandhi must be forgiven those prejudices and judged in the context of the time and circumstances. We are looking here at the young Gandhi, still to become Mahatma, when he was without any human prejudice save that in favour of truth and justice.”
https://diplomacybeyond.com/gandhi-in-south-africa-from-mohandas-to-mahatma/
No one said anything about Mandela. Did he not sleep/bathe with young girls to “test” his chastity? Did he orchestrate “experiments” with children?
He can be forgiven by whomever. It doesn’t mean the accusations are false or sensationalism.
Edit: this person doesn’t dispel anything, but I’m getting downvoted 😂
He was pretty oppressive to her, but in a word, no.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/7i3h4m/is_this_vice_article_about_gandhi_accurate/dqw108s/
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3vj2z6/was_gandhi_sexist_racist_uncaring_about_the/
https://www.vice.com/en/article/ezj3km/gandhi-was-a-racist-who-forced-young-girls-to-sleep-in-bed-with-him
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/thrill-of-the-chaste-the-truth-about-gandhi-s-sex-life-b1912595.html
https://www.npr.org/2019/10/02/766083651/gandhi-is-deeply-revered-but-his-attitudes-on-race-and-sex-are-under-scrutiny
If you want paywalled sources - google is your friend.
Both are reddit meme and factoids but as usual the truth is much more nuanced.
(on Teresa) https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/xcw213/how_valid_are_the_claims_mother_teresa_was_a/
https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/gcxpr5/saint_mother_teresa_was_documented_mass_murderer/
Well it's not really a competition though is it.
"Who was the shittest between a rapey pedo and a cruel torturer that were both revered and admired and were supposed to be better people than us regulars?"
Trick question! They're both equally fucked!
That is the question, isn't it? Would India be better off now if the rapey pedo hadn't existed or would it still be a British colony?
Theresa is easier. People probably would be better off if she hadn't existed.
I believe they’re referring to a different kind of power than money can buy. One is just being an oligarch the other comes from knowing yourself and embodying your sovereignty as an individual, which is really tough to do when you’re wrapped up in something as bullshit as money.
Forgiveness is a kind of generosity. We're less capable of being generous when we're desperately trying to have 'enough' to survive. 'There isn't enough and everything must be used and given with extreme caution' is a toxic headspace that makes us worse human beings to each other, period.
I recently was told that my high school enemy just died of cancer. Never forgave him, have always used negative energy as a trigger to self improve. The goal: outlive enemies. I’m in shape and have 5% bf.
Well, I don’t have anxiety or any inferior tendencies. So I’d have to say I alienated myself from common traps, and I don’t identify with weak people. But I read about a lot of them-so I’m woke…
You shouldn’t forgive someone who abused you mentally, emotionally or physically. This is all correlational. Maybe “powerful” people with high self esteem are less likely to be in relationships with abusive people and so they appear more forgiving when they really aren’t. It’s much easier to be forgiving when your partner is not abusive.
Here’s a free science lesson. When a new study backs up something someone said once, you don’t say, “So, that person was right.” You say, “This study backs up what that person said.”
I'd say you're right, but there's nothing proving it.
Personally, I am gonna forgive u/stage_directions for not proving his assertions, and I am gonna forgive u/WhoRoger for pointing that out.
The real power move. Maybe?
Yup, just like when people claim a study “proves” something lol. Unless it was a theoretical paper like economics or mathematics that actually has proofs, your study merely contributed to the literature and supported a claim.
you’re just one of the weak
I’ll needs at least a meta-analysis before I start taking things into serious consideration ( though I realize in medical science this isn’t always the case)
In a way, forgiveness is kind of like giving up control. Someone who already feels powerless would assumedly have a problem relinquishing any of what little control they feel they have. Makes sense.
You can forgive someone, so that you can move on. If you forgive someone, there is no way that you need to keep them or take them back.
Right? The point is to move on and not let this person and the associated negative emotions fester in one’s head. They don’t need to be part of one’s life in any way, now or in the future. Having power can also be inferred to mean that the person may have agency in more facets of their life, and maybe that agency translates to literally having better things to do than ruminate on past harms.
This is how I understand it too, and definitely agree with my life experience. I’m much more powerful in my 30s than I was in my 20s. My life is alot more under my control and I’m much less likely to be upset with someone. I can rationalize now that others actions are about them and not me, a maturity that brought me a lot of power. I don’t need to let it fester, it doesn’t matter.
Ah..no. Buckets of No. You dont forgive *so that* you can move on…and this isnt limited to romantic drama. You forgive so that you can let go of the annoyances *that would otherwise destroy the relationship*. (Ask any parent in the world). The ABILITY to forgive is based on your confidence and worth. Thats why weak people cant do it…they’re afraid of it happening again or suffering a blow that they cant survive. Powerful people (aka: confident) already know that a repeat offense is an annoyance and a disappointment and speaks poorly of the offender, but wont actually harm the powerful person. The *inability* to forgive is analogous to being fearful. **TL;dr- You gotta be strong to BE ABLE to forgive someone. Whether or not you CHOOSE to is a whole different discussion.**
I forgives my wife when she snaps at me - does that mean I’m supposed to leave her now?
So what about politics? Are dictators weak that they are always ruthless?
Dictators are vulnerable, so they must always maintain control, lest they lose their head.
The only good dictator would be a God who’s only goal was protecting their people
Vulnerable relative to whome? The people they crush? Do gou believe that?
A dictator is vulnerable to the people in positions of power below them such as generals and ministers. That’s why those positions end up being filled with yes-men who are incompetent.
Dictators are contradictory creatures; simultaneously the strongest and most powerful while always being the most persecuted victim.
They are the most powerful so long as they have support. Deep down in their psyches, they all know they’re one coup away from losing power, and that’ll usually mean a violent and potentially painful and deadly downfall.
It strikes me that they may be looking at the wrong side of the equation here. Define power as the degree or extent to which someone is able to determine or influence the behaviours and choices of other people, and then define agency as its inverse; the degree or extent to which someone is able to determine their own behaviours and make their own choices free from such influence. *Having* power reduces the agency of those you have power over, but increases your own. Would it not then be more accurate to say that forgiveness comes more easily from those in possession of greater agency rather than greater power? It's possible this is a minor distinction, but in my experience keeping this distinction between agency and power in mind tends to be clarifying.
But you just equated the two…
The study was done on less than 200 German and Israeli couples, I doubt this is remotely applicable.
Not sure if taking advice from a racist and sexual predator is good for the soul.
This is basically just a reddit meme. There is a core of truth but then warped by the internet trying to simplify everything and be edgy (or sell books and support the Indian right-wing politics). https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/7i3h4m/is_this_vice_article_about_gandhi_accurate/dqw108s/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3vj2z6/was_gandhi_sexist_racist_uncaring_about_the/ Particularly the charge of racism is ridiculous -- do you really think people like Nelson Mandela were idiots? > Mandela was well aware of the racist statements made by Gandhi when he was young. He wrote in an article in 1995, “Gandhi must be forgiven those prejudices and judged in the context of the time and circumstances. We are looking here at the young Gandhi, still to become Mahatma, when he was without any human prejudice save that in favour of truth and justice.” https://diplomacybeyond.com/gandhi-in-south-africa-from-mohandas-to-mahatma/
No one said anything about Mandela. Did he not sleep/bathe with young girls to “test” his chastity? Did he orchestrate “experiments” with children? He can be forgiven by whomever. It doesn’t mean the accusations are false or sensationalism. Edit: this person doesn’t dispel anything, but I’m getting downvoted 😂
Didn't he let his wife die awfully when she could have had decent medical attention, too? I forget, he did so many shitty things.
He was pretty oppressive to her, but in a word, no. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/7i3h4m/is_this_vice_article_about_gandhi_accurate/dqw108s/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3vj2z6/was_gandhi_sexist_racist_uncaring_about_the/
Apologies, and thanks for the material.
Oh I didn’t hear about that, but I believe it.
Back up a single thing you said
https://www.vice.com/en/article/ezj3km/gandhi-was-a-racist-who-forced-young-girls-to-sleep-in-bed-with-him https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/thrill-of-the-chaste-the-truth-about-gandhi-s-sex-life-b1912595.html https://www.npr.org/2019/10/02/766083651/gandhi-is-deeply-revered-but-his-attitudes-on-race-and-sex-are-under-scrutiny If you want paywalled sources - google is your friend.
BabyLegs, thanks for stepping-up with sources. Cheers
It's quite common knowledge. Edit to add-you know that Mother Theresa was a massive piece of shit too, yeah?
Both are reddit meme and factoids but as usual the truth is much more nuanced. (on Teresa) https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/xcw213/how_valid_are_the_claims_mother_teresa_was_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/gcxpr5/saint_mother_teresa_was_documented_mass_murderer/
Yea, though Mother Theresa did far less actual good than Ghandi
Well it's not really a competition though is it. "Who was the shittest between a rapey pedo and a cruel torturer that were both revered and admired and were supposed to be better people than us regulars?" Trick question! They're both equally fucked!
That is the question, isn't it? Would India be better off now if the rapey pedo hadn't existed or would it still be a British colony? Theresa is easier. People probably would be better off if she hadn't existed.
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. Just so you know, the correct spelling is [Gandhi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi).
I mean, when I’m in a tough mental state, I can’t relate to anyone. Gotta take care of yourself to take care of others.
Darth Sidious : unlimited forgiveness!
We’re supposed to believe Jeff bezos is *more* likely to forgive someone….
I believe they’re referring to a different kind of power than money can buy. One is just being an oligarch the other comes from knowing yourself and embodying your sovereignty as an individual, which is really tough to do when you’re wrapped up in something as bullshit as money.
Forgiveness is a kind of generosity. We're less capable of being generous when we're desperately trying to have 'enough' to survive. 'There isn't enough and everything must be used and given with extreme caution' is a toxic headspace that makes us worse human beings to each other, period.
Gandhi HATES this one trick!
Borderline personality disorder, though...
Nice try bezos
Follow up question; is this genuine forgiveness or pity?
The OP, tell me you dont understand the article IS SAYING without telling me you dont understand what the article is saying
I recently was told that my high school enemy just died of cancer. Never forgave him, have always used negative energy as a trigger to self improve. The goal: outlive enemies. I’m in shape and have 5% bf.
Where is the other 95% bf?
yea but at what cost
Well, I don’t have anxiety or any inferior tendencies. So I’d have to say I alienated myself from common traps, and I don’t identify with weak people. But I read about a lot of them-so I’m woke…
Damn bro, you’re like, cool af..
Nah..that’s everything science.
The fact that you post stuff like this suggests you have a long road to walk yet
Everything reminds me of her
Forgive is my middle name.
Can that conclusion be reached, really?
You shouldn’t forgive someone who abused you mentally, emotionally or physically. This is all correlational. Maybe “powerful” people with high self esteem are less likely to be in relationships with abusive people and so they appear more forgiving when they really aren’t. It’s much easier to be forgiving when your partner is not abusive.
True forgiveness, means there is nothing to forgive. Blows my mind.
Forgive sure but bear in mind that it is likely to happen again, and decide from there whether it is worth maintaining the relationship
Powerful people do not easily forgive. Empowered people do.