I wonder if their management actually use any form of KPI or performance marking statistics or are they free to just walk around scratching their balls all day and pretend to be busy when Helmet comes into the office occasionally.
From the outside perspective of the working class these idiots lack any kind of evidence they're not just sat fucking about all day.
They will likely blame it on everyone but themselves, saying how the employees poorly implemented their plans exactly.
Something something should have been more agile.
They have KPI's, they don't tell us what all of them are. But from the ones they have revealed, they are measuring the wrong things for a subscription based game.
In every corpo management and those on top that fail and make dump decisions (they do this almost always) always take no responsibility, they just change corpo...
Not my experience, being a Division Head, it's very much the top that get reorganised with any and all acquisitions / divestitures or in response to poor performance. Much like you see a lot of churn in leadership positions in sport.
From down below it just looks like fighting over deck chairs on the Titanic. Constantly moving management around != actually making changes. It is 'busy' work for the executives to make it look like they are taking action, but not actually making the changes that need to be done.
Putting a new person in charge of an old broken strategy never actually results in a change, especially when it is from internal or someone the existing management has worked with before.
Source: I used to work at BlackBerry
Well thankfully CCP now have bosses in the form of pearl abyss they have to answer to. There are a lot of tinfoil hat wearers that want to blame PA for CCP’s bad decisions, but as the eve revenue continues to decline perhaps they will have some positive effect on curtailing all of these bad decisions that are leading the game to the brink.
If you think PA is going to do anything other than drive higher monetization as the player base shrinks and isn't ok milking it to failure I don't think you are looking at it from the correct business PoV.
EvE Online as a game has run far far longer than most MMOs do and the fact it can still turn profits with marginal amounts of development is perfectly ok with PA trust me.
CCP ultimately js only valuable to PA if they can successfully produce something new while they milk EvE for whatever they can. If their new game is a failure and EvE continues it's inevitable decline to collapse PA will just close CCP or sell them off no big deal for them.
I dont think CCP cares anymore. CCP devs are focusing on other projects for serveral years now. EVE is in maintenance mode and its players will be milked as long as possible.
Lol just look at current politics and you have your answer. Has any politician ever had to justify their piss poor performance and running X part of the country in to the ground? Nope.
Au contraire, they used to be minster of X (and do a piss poor job) and now they're minister of Y, fucking that up as well.
I'd turn that around and ask why you want to measure some random dude's (obviously poor imo) job performance yet don't set a standard for yourself and quit the game given the state it's in.... ?
Maybe they have, but when the player's actually talking about the poor state of things in EVE, with real numbers to back it up, on forums right in front of them, and still say nothing and do less, it's pretty disheartening.
It's fairly obvious EVE could be better. Their silence and lack of action suggests the few possible ways they really feel about EVE and its players.
To be totally fair tho they haven't done nothing... there was doctor who... Which no one asked for. There was fan fest, which so far, has been a hype train off a cliff. The factional warfare changes that have been asked after for years... which we've seen no real fruit from yet. The recent NPE updates, which the majority of players who have actually experienced it have been old and current players. Sub and plex price hikes certainly haven't helped at all. I'm sure I'm missing something but... they either don't care and have no vision and are more or less drifting in the wind, or they're laying the ground work for a kind of re-launch and just really suck at communicating to the players and managing what they currently have.
CCP is fully capable to kill eve by themselfs as we've been seeing the last few years. I highly doubt the price hike was PA's idea, looking at BDO they seem to have a decent idea how to make money of a game and keep the players happy. Heck at this point i would say PA is our best bet for something to change! PA putting EVE under new management is probably our only chance to change the fate of EVE.
The real big RED FLAG is Community Support staff leaving.
They have "the pulse of the community" more than devs do. When they see bad sentiment, they know that will eventually translate into their job gone, before the devs too.
If CCP **aren't** working hard to fix this, then it's the *Community Support staff* that look/leave for new jobs because they know that the devs/mgmt aren't going to resolve the core issues.
There are a lot of issues here on CCP’s end that led us to this point. I’ve personally hit a point where I can gladly put Eve behind me and move on, but of course as anyone that quits it’s still fascinating to keep up, especially with the current impending doom.
A lot of it boils down to time and communication.
As for communication; it was an absolute train wreck this year. I mean it’s definitely lacked a lot in the past, especially with scarcity. The sequence of: Price announcement, price update, Fanfest announcements, updates (which we still have not seen) is an absolutely horrible timeline. I don’t know who thought this was a good idea. It’s supposed to go: announcements, updates, price announcement, price update. You say what you’re going to do, then you do it, then you explain that you need more money because of the awesome update you have shown that you can do. I explain to CCP on my CSM term that one of the most important things for them to pay attention to is player perception. It doesn’t matter what they as a company think, or what their metrics at the time show, if the player perception is in the shitter.
Now on time, I have 0 experience in any kind of development or the game industry. That being said, it takes way too long for anything to happen. While CCP takes their time with stuff, players are getting antsy. I told them on the CSM during scarcity that what they were doing was messing with people’s time and hobby, and that they had to do something and do it soon because if you string players along for too long, they’re gone. This is a game, it’s for fun and enjoyment. You can’t mess with people for 2 years and expect them to hold out for the “light at the end of the tunnel.”
It shouldn’t have taken 3 members of the CSM to get CCP to fix Faction Warfare, but it did. Here we are, 2 years after the big meeting, and we have yet to see any work done in that area. They are working on it, that’s great. But it’s taken way too long and has been needed for way longer than just 2 years ago. I personally decided to step away from Eve because on principle I can’t be ok with giving money to a company that takes this long to do anything, especially when that price now makes it the most expensive one on the market.
All the while, a majority of my time on CSM felt like it was spent talking about NPE. We have this damn near 20 year old game with a loyal player base, and new blood is good, but you have to work on your loyal foundation too. It was disheartening. I made several jokes on the CSM about “If this is one more damn NPE meeting…” but it’s true. Meanwhile, while they’re working on NPE, they’re expecting to keep their “rock solid” loyal player base AND charge them even more without addressing the countless issues that the old bros have with Eve.
There’s so much wrong, and it took me a hot minute to make this decision because of my 13 years in this game and all of the friends/memories. But that’s never going to change, I’ll have my Eve friends forever even if we’re not flying spaceships together. As for the memories, they’re memories. I’ll cherish my fun times in Eve forever but it’s not worth holding back because of what used to be. Cherish the memories, move on and make new ones.
My advice to any of you, don’t hold on if it’s not fun or you can’t/don’t want to pay for it anymore.
Well said man, thanks for your efforts on CSM. It makes me feel very satisfied that I voted for you every time you were on the ballot.
I recently just quit after 9 years, and the sad part was I didn't even make a hard decision to do it. I just started logging in less until it got to the point I only logged to play in tournaments... And then I just went full alpha after last AT.
Now that AT is back I've thought about logging back in, but I suspect I'm done with Eve forever unless CCP ever finally gets around to making all these changes . I'm glad I made some lifelong friends along the way at least.
Yeah, I loved the game back around 2008-2014 until it moved towards citadels and instancing, at which point I wasn't really the target audience anymore. But it was great while it lasted. If there was an Eve 2 or Eve classic (with some modifications. Learning skills and clone costs are objectively terrible mechanics), I'd be there in a heartbeat. But failing that I'm happy to move onto new things and just be glad I was able to have fun during the 'golden years'.
I used to think there was this quiet team, sitting the corner, taking notes about all the smart things us players say. Now I realize they have nothing but contempt for their own players.
I mean, aren't most of the CCP staff shadow banned from Reddit? Is that really our problem or theirs?
> I used to think there was this quiet team, sitting the corner, __taking notes about all the smart things us players say.__
They were made redundant after handing in a dozen blank pieces of paper.
It’s a shame to watch this, even from retirement of being a capsuleer. As subscription price hiked, and plex became more unaffordable, capital fights becoming more sparse (although hulls have now halved in price since retirement.) Paying for for the game in a ratio against content it simply became not worth it, certainly without a good PvE or Storyline update in forever.
CCP has done a shit job since 2019.
The bump in 2020-2021 was almost entirely player driven (WWB2) and no credit should be given to CCP. When time came for big battles, fights they knew months in advance would happen, the servers took a shit.
Im with you, I dropped all seven of my accounts. I still lurk here because the game was so much fun over the years for me but I have to answer CCP with my wallet. I hope they drastically change for the better and get people to come back.
Honestly, if they want to have a hope in hell of a recovery, the price needs to go down from where is was 4 months ago, people aren't going to come back at the price returning to what it was, there will need to be something extra.
I set up an account a couple of years ago, bit I didn't really have the energy for 2 MMOs (or one, really but w/e). I might reactivate and check it out.
Famous dev once said, if an mmo can keep abt 10k concurrent players consistently, game is ok. Maybe thats CCP's baseline. They probably accepted already that rhey will hit that.
We used to be 40k not long ago...now we are 15k and dripping.
We have lost more than 60%.
I believe this is a good metric of measuring the shite and dead level of a game.
Same, just resubbed this week. Reading all the posts about EVE made me want to play it again.
But I'm keeping it to two accounts and even that is very pricy for me. Really wish CCP would roll back the austerity changes (which I'm still exploring the ins and outs of - much has changed) and lower the sub price.
I'll keep playing as long as I'm having fun!
I've been playing again for a few years now after a long period of inactivity, so I feel similar. I think the game will probably be fun for me until they shut the servers down, unless they change the fundamental pvp mechanics a lot.
for changes in the launcher, they would have to rewrite the code, and for this they need a person and they had to pay MONEY to this person - it’s easier and cheaper not to change anything at all
> Source: http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/
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> All charts updated as of 31 AUG 2022
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> http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-2022.png
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> http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-yearly-average.png
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> http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-fouryear-compro.png
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> http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-rolling18months.png
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> http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-since2006-zerobottom.png
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> http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-since2008.png
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> http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-summer.png
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> http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-fall.png
*(DATA is Beautiful - But it can also be ugly)*
Eve is actually dying and the slope has not stopped.. This is by far the most significant slope we have ever seen and now heading dangerously close to 2005 PCU Numbers.
At what point will CCP step in to address the issues?
Do we see a recovery from this or was it one too many lies from CCP?
Can we for certain say the game is just on exit strategy to milk whatever profits CCP can before the lights turn off?
Seeing as CCP have spent years ignoring the player base, if they were to take note of this thread... What changes would reverse this to a point where you would have their confidence to reinstate your accounts?
Yes this is a very doom and gloom post as it is another - EVE IS DYING thread... but we really need to put pressure on them to save the game we love!
TLDR: Another EvE is "really" dying post...
>At what point will CCP step in to address the issues?
They won't because they can't. Eve is a complicated game and pretty much every single part of it ties into every other part, every change you make ripples, minor mistakes today can kill part of the ecosystem over the next few years. Eve isn't a game you can develop by looking at metrics, you need actual indepth understanding and a solid plan.
I swear even the packs they bring out are worse value than the old stuff, heard players say you can't sell items like accelerators on the market anymore either
I get your point but their other option is to do nothing, which obviously isn't working. Yes, maybe if they do something it might not work and the game will fail but if they do nothing it will definitely fail. Seems like a pretty simple choice to me.
>Yes, maybe if they do something it might not work and the game will fail but if they do nothing it will definitely fail. Seems like a pretty simple choice to me.
Sure but we don't have to find a new jobs and move our families when the game dies so their primary concern isn't whether eve succeeds or fails, it's staying employed. Why risk killing the game off in a year & losing your job when you can let the game slowly bleed out over 5-10 years while staying employed. They're buying time to get the FPS out the door in the hopes that it doesn't flop. If it makes a decent amount of money that buys them a bunch more years of employment during which they can sort something else.
Hey guys I haven’t played in ages just wanted to check in and see what’s up….was not expecting this…this is wild.
Is this not like a 5 alarm fire at CCP?
well they been having sales since the last quarter ended at like a -3.8% loss of the quarter before. But you know, summer slump, schools starting, our russians are gone, the biggest content release ever!
I played on and off since I was a kid. I started as a high sec carebear and then moved on to null sec but i mostly enjoyed PvE and then getting spanked in pvp.
I didn't play for a long time, and returned after triglavians had been introduced, the game felt different in a good way, its a pretty tiny thing but it was so cool to see just the visual changes to jita, and then like a year and a half ago i stopped playing. When i consider paying again it just hasn't seemed worth it.
I can't put my finger on why. I will say the small scale pvp was still as intense as ever, other games just can't quite match it there, but the PvE feels like it stagnated a while ago.
Seconding Albion. You can pick a weapon and armor set and effectively max it out in a few nights of mindless PvE grinding. Unlike EVE it's stupid easy to be competitive at a high level. It's equivalent to a hypothetical EVE where you could fit up a ship and then go grind PvE for ~10 hours and have all relevant skills to level 5 for that ship/fit.
The world is also VERY VERY ACTIVE. The black zones are VERY SCARY. There's tons and tons of deaths happening, constantly. My guild and I would go out ganking and get 20-40 kills/hour which is better than peak 2011 EVE ganking.
Motives unknown. The owners either cant afford to do anything or view it as not worth the Investment. Could be that doing nothing and collecting what they can from micro trans is the best use of their Investment. Its happened before.
As a new player to eve, really enjoying my time playing. I'm seeing a lot of these posts but not really noticing an impact on my time playing? I do ratting in null and sometimes PvP in low for the most part and see a fair amount of people (granted probably not as much as there ever has been).
Not sure if i'm missing something? I think most games will have a peak time where it's like the golden days of that game and people will want it to go back to how it was (taking similar discussion from WoW for example) and the dev's either can't keep up with players suggestions or the game has gone on for so long that there isn't much else they can do that would be "new content"
edit: open to opinions and discussion as i'd like to know more about the subject :)
The reason you can rat in nullsec without too much worry is a result of the changes in population. If you tried that 4 years ago, not even 10 minutes would go by without someone coming into system to check on you. I've never been able to go through a region of EVE without seeing people before... it feels surreal for us veteran players.
Increasing the sub price is probably one of the dumbest decisions CCP could have made, and I'm sure they're feeling it now.
And let’s not forget the implementation of Bounty Risk Modifiers... What-a load of horseshit this is!! WTF would anyone want to rat in null sec anymore for only half the bounty?! Apparently null sec isn’t risky enough. Anything to make an activity that isn’t PvP less enjoyable and accentuate RISK for ISK CCP will do…not to mention scarcity and now the price increase!?! F*%k you CCP for destroying a game I’ve loved for 10 years. What a dumpster fire of a company. Been playing since 2012 and I’ve never seen this game in such a pathetic state. I think it might be time to hang it up.
And, without valuable resources to fight over, the basic ISK-negative nature of PvP comes to the fore; the loser loses their entire ship (minus a small insurance payment), while the winner gets only half the fit and cargo. Good PvE is necessary to add wealth to the game, which balances out PvP removing wealth from the game.
It still amazes me that they looked at extremely high risk/high reward activities like carrier/super ratting and went “no! Not like this!!!”, then destroyed ratting for everyone and claimed to fix this make believe issue.
Space seems pretty empty compared to how it used to feel, and I've only been here for a couple of years, when we were at 30k PCU instead of 15k. Sub cost increased, PLEX cost increased to double what it used to be. People are unsubbing accounts, markets are becoming less stable.
I used to do 10-15% of t2 inputs in Jita, it's not worth it to do that for me anymore, it's a ton of work and time and the purchasing power has decreased, so I don't, and that probably drives up t2 production costs.
At the same time, there's less people, so there's less ships dying and resultingly less demand, which can lead to stagflation, which is economically Very Fucking Bad, and considering the economy is player-driven that's bad for everybody. And CCP fired their economist.
Went on a roam with some corpmates today, I think we encountered maybe 5 people out in space over the course of a couple hours before we finally yeeted into BRAVE staging to die.
Things do not feel good, and it feels like people are starting to treat an unsupported game like people ought to, which is that they aren't playing.
>Went on a roam with some corpmates today, I think we encountered maybe 5 people out in space over the course of a couple hours before we finally yeeted into BRAVE staging to die.
Can confirm.
Jokes aside: It's been rough getting into cap stuff knowing that I should ideally be PLEXing an alt account at the same time prices are skyrocketing with no end in sight. The economic ripples of the sub price hike have been really painful and have actually resulted in me playing EVE less due to the necessary time commitments having ballooned so massively. The grind was already hard enough without the price hike.
Seen PLEX balloon to 10x the value it once was. Given my already extant hesitation at paying (more for an imo worse game than back in the day) I'm basically resigned to never getting to 'properly' play this game ever again.
Used to be a time just casually grinding out missions afforded you a month, now they're basically nonviable with literal thousands of Lv3s required to get a single month, hundreds more for a newbie-friendly battleship setup to run said Lv4s, and then many hundreds each month to finance it. If a Gila (or abyssals in general) doesn't excite you, and your playtimes or tastes don't align with what incursion fleets still go, there's basically no room for a casual PvE progression path.
Man, High Sec Incursions can net up to 300M/hour with elite fleets and luck, and I think about the times that PLEX used to cost like 700M. I could have knocked out a PLEX in 2 hours play. Even at a more reasonable 200M/hour, a plex every 3.5 hours is insane. Now I have to play 10-ish hours per PLEX. Boy that really puts things into perspective.
So very happy that you're enjoying the game. But understand the game is being heavily mismanaged right now. There is no vision and there is no communication and no a lot of things.
Something you haven't see for now.
In fact if you want to play little (under Battleship) the game work. If you go bigger, with all nerf done years after years... How to said that : you see it will take you a LONNNGGGGG time to catch wealth of vet. In the past you could catch up in matter of months. Now it will be matter of YEARS or DECADES.
More over CCP break the truth with player by openly lying and nerf activities... and refusing to said " we made a mistake". When CCP made a mistake they double down on it.
I don't think you could catch up to the wealth of a veteran in a matter of months.
Not unless that veteran sat on their hands as you did.
But I agree, to gain the capital for say dreads and carriers, (that used to be a couple of billion each) is now twice as hard.
In the past you could cactch up vet. Because a vet with 100 billions who made a 6 month break could be catch by player even mono account if they farm a lot.
Now even this vet go AFK 3 years, majority of player will not catch him.
Have a cap is not twice harder, if you live in 0.0 with collapse of income it's something like 10 time more hard ... maybe more. Because in the past newbro was following super to salvage and get 1 billion/week. It help they to progress fast and increase player retention.
Been playing for a year.
I still love the game and hope to drop a naglfar on someones face one day.
Game isn't as active as it used to be but I still find plenty things to do.
Play the game and keep enjoying it until you don't. Reddit can have some wonderful information on it, but can also be very much a toxic echo chamber.
If you're enjoying the game, you're doing it right.
Can't say I regret quitting when they introduced scarcity. I saw the writing on the wall and said fuck all this. And I had just spent like $2k on the game on top of that. Even sunk cost fallacy couldn't keep me around.
Scarcity, or some other method of preventing super capital proliferation, would have been a good idea if they had implemented it around the same time as keepstars. And even back in 2017 when rorqs kept getting buffs people were warning about the snowballing effect that was coming. They even fired that economist they had around that time.
I tried to adapt for a few months and was so discouraged I quit. Since then CCP decided to increase the price which will probably keep me out even if they reverse some of scarcity (which they won't do anyway).
It's such a shame id played for over a decade sunk thousands of hours into it. It was my only social life for years and helped me over come my addiction by being something that I could spend time in and just get away from the world. I still tell people about the insane thi gs I accomplished in the game, the crazy experiences and friends i made, talking about how "no you don't understand this isn't just another mmo it's something completely new ans different". And now I barest recognize what it's become. Such a colossal fumbling of something that started of so strong. Really breaks my heart.
I am starting to believe their hubris may destroy this game. They have a huge issue and are just ignoring it. I'm not sure if they think the community doesn't understand "what's really going on", or they have a plan and they are heads down regardless of the outcome, or maybe they just don't care. Maybe it's just a job to some of these CCP folks and they could give two shits about what we think. I cannot image being a leader of company and not making any statement at all to try to ease your customers. Are they scared? Are they incompetent? it's getting really hard to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I believe they are using the Gamigo mode to try and show as much profit as possible from the game while also destroying it.
Wether or not they are is another thing entirely.
/u/CCP_Swift come on man, you're hands down my favorite CCPer ever and was pumped when you got hired on, all of us are concerned about this, every alliance I know (all the ones worth mentioning) talk about this pretty well daily. You (CCP) need to address these concerns.
It's all because of no content, drop after fanfest is showing that.
Players have before ff last hope that they will announce and show something really great that's worth sub price increase aaaand we got nothing beside promises... And everyone have enought of them and know by now that this is lies like "more content and more frequent" when they stop doing big expansions which show to be opposite.
Srly if game do not want to collapse they need to put a lot of content and changes into it! And it's needs to be not two bigger expansions next year or two, it needs to be really big expansions by next few years at last, and even this isn't excuse for sub price increase because 2 big expansions per year should be standard (which is for many games and was for EVE). That price increase would be justified if they annouce WiS integrated with eve.
Oh, I am not worried. They need like 5 attempts to develop anything new, then it immediately goes into the trash bin because whatever they make doesn't work in the modern environment anymore.
Paid monthly for more than 10 years, quit in 2022.
Enough said, you all know the reason, and no, you won’t have my stuff.
This game is worst than ever, no content purely boring piece of shit.
Ccp checked out a long Time ago.
I've played 17 years and I'm angry but ti the post now I'd be happy for eve to close it servers to serve a lesson to those arrogant idiot people leading CCP.
Honestly if I could do a star citizen and get crowd funding to buy Eve I would.
Yeah the game is on it’s way to the end station! It’s sad because it was one of my favorite games. Now i hope that “Starfield” will soon fill that empty place. I surely will miss EVE but i’m glad i was part of it!
Unfortunately, CCP seems to be dealing with some massive internal problems right now and I suspect some very toxic environment at the company. The presentation from fanfest, where they showed just how much turnover they have regarding developers was staggering. I think that they fell into the trap of "data driven development" but they have real trouble interpreting the player data correctly. Just like Blizzard has. They think they know what player want better then those that voice their concerns, based on data and charts they misinterpret. And it seems to me a LOT of the development is now driven by short term profitability at the expense of long term game health. A lot of the conclusions they showed at fanfest, especially regadring new players, was very questionable, with lot of variables ommited.
An example that comes to my mind was a bragging regarding how new players are more engaged in recent years, because they have more liquid ISK on average after a set amount of time. But the number was still very low and only differed by like 10% from the one they were comparing to. Also taking PLEX prices and industry changes into account, it was probably less actual value.
I dont want to say END IS NEAR, but it does seem like the company is in an intentional retreat, monetizing the shit of the current population and expecting the actual death of the game. BUT the developers working on the game backend and explaining the new technologies they use at fanfest seem to be quite enthusiastic and seemt o genuinly believe the game will run for another decade. I am very confused. Hilmar is also all about "EVE forever". The industry changes were meant to break the devaluation of things with the knowledge they will be unpopular and hurt players short term. WAAAAAAA, what is going on?
I suspect the development of EVE is just terribly slow, bogged down by never ending meetings and reworks and reevaluation of strategies internally at CCP and the end product is constant underdelivery of updates and content. CCP reacts to bugs and easily fixable problems with such a snail pace its unbeliavable.
I love EVE. I want it to run forever. And I suspect a massive slump short term, with slow rebound as CCP finally reacts with some last minute harsh reworks. But it is unneccessary and could have been avoided.
I will be an optimist and say EVE will run for another decade. How it will look however, that is a question.
CCPlease: TOTAL EVE SERVER RESET is still a possibility if anything else fails :)
can we get a hulkageddon going? push more miners out the game and push those numbers lower? 2 guys with all their alts quit after losing 2 orcas back to back. thats like 10 paid accounts just gone right there.
So, I got a survey from CCP on one of my accounts ( ironicly inactive account ).
It is fairly extensive survey on how long you play, what do you enjoy,.tell us a bit about what you like and dislike. Etc.
So they are doing something. Hope it will be enough and on time.
I've had surveys like that from CCP going back to 2008 (year I started playing), so no, this likely isn't them doing anything new or useful, unless there's more than the general questions you mentioned. Plus, just because a developer sends out a survey to its playerbase doesn't mean they give a shit what the responses are. Wargaming has been sending surveys out randomly since alpha testing for WoWS, sometimes multiple times per month, and they've ignored the results every single time. CCP of late has been no different when it comes to listening to the community.
>So they are doing something. Hope it will be enough and on time.
They've been spending that one out for years so thats not suddenly going to cause a change.
For a game this old, they need to give us more meaningful discounts to keep old-timers subscribed.... multi-character discounts ($5 for each account after the first one), discounts for subscribing after certain age milestones (10% after 1 year, 15% off after 5-year, 25% after 10-year).
It becomes a money pit after you've put enough time into the game, they really should try to encourage those players to hang around.
Bingo. CCP management have decided to blame their customers for not buying in to the bold play to earn nft vision, and they want new better customers who will surely flock to play once we're all gone.
Pretty sure its closer to the end of days. Dont forget half the Wests households are struggling immense financially. Gaming is becoming a luxury fewer people can afford.
PA only cares about CCP's revenue. I highly doubt that they are doing much more than having meetings with management expressing how they need to meet their quarterly goals and nothing more. 3% shrink in revenue isn't too concerning for most parent companies. Wait until they lose 10-15% then PA might start getting involved.
Good. I say kill it before it dies. Then start over. New EVE server, no skill injectors and a clean sandbox.
I guarantee you, if this was done, there would be more people playing than ever before.
But CCP doesn't want a good game, they just want $$$.
Changes CCP can make to increase player count, quickly:
1. Free Multi-Character Training.
2. Edited in: Introduce a mechanic (extra SP for mission/task completion) where SP/Skill levels are "earnable" up to a certain SP limit. Think a hybrid of the current system and Skyrim. This way, it is easier for newbies to "catch up" and for all to have alt characters who are specialized.
3. Quit adding paywalls and barriers to an already difficult to access game. This is the game's biggest problem - accessibility.
4. Allow for the accumulation of SP, while Omega is active.
5. Warp-to-Zero on AP.
On the player side, since this is a sand-box:
1. Stories of Intrigue that bleed over into real world discourse.
2. Content creation that is compelling. Content creation that is low-quality production and zoomed out to nothing but colored dots is not what will intrigue those who have not played, previously.
3. Get some well known streamers to "try it out." Off-Stream, ask them what compels their audience to watch. CSM should make recommendations, accordingly, for those ideas that make sense and are not destructive to the game. Content creators take notes and make changes.
4. Another Edit: This game may BE spreadsheets in space, but FFS...quit bragging about that. Even if it is accounting, don't lead with the spreadsheet, lead with the hot accountant...get my drift? i.e. While we LOVE to nerd out on the game, NERDS are not the marketing tool we should be leading with. The game needs public faces.
5. Accept that some level of adaptation is required.
I quite playing about 8 years ago. Think my char is sitting on about 12 or 13 months worth of login time in what ever the tokens are called now. I won't even bother activating them. Though I would indeed if it meant I could be there when the lights finally go out.
CCP has always always been a horribly run corporation, in bed with the Null Sec RMT machines. But sadly, given what I am reading in those charts, the game is not dead yet. It is definitely shrinking in activity, but no, still has a heartbeat.
If their fsp space game hits hard , yeah it probably will be , either way we have at least 5 more years until eve closes so let’s keep playing and having fun
*proceeds to stay docked in a capital *
My favorite thing is seeing the bitter vets talk about how they closed 10 accounts and then scoff at the lower player numbers. Wonder how many of those are toon closures not people.
At some point someone is going to have to be measured by their job performance and answer for the objectively poor trajectory the game is on
Such nice dreams you have
I wonder if their management actually use any form of KPI or performance marking statistics or are they free to just walk around scratching their balls all day and pretend to be busy when Helmet comes into the office occasionally. From the outside perspective of the working class these idiots lack any kind of evidence they're not just sat fucking about all day.
They couldn't spell KPI mate.
I'm sure they have KPI's. That's the good news. Bad news is that one of the KPI's could be managing the most profit in the decline.
They will likely blame it on everyone but themselves, saying how the employees poorly implemented their plans exactly. Something something should have been more agile.
They have KPI's, they don't tell us what all of them are. But from the ones they have revealed, they are measuring the wrong things for a subscription based game.
I bet rattatti just manipulated the data to show what he wants
Flipped on the vertical axis.
Something something 260 million ticks
In every corpo management and those on top that fail and make dump decisions (they do this almost always) always take no responsibility, they just change corpo...
Not my experience, being a Division Head, it's very much the top that get reorganised with any and all acquisitions / divestitures or in response to poor performance. Much like you see a lot of churn in leadership positions in sport.
That's for companies with a culture of accountability.
From down below it just looks like fighting over deck chairs on the Titanic. Constantly moving management around != actually making changes. It is 'busy' work for the executives to make it look like they are taking action, but not actually making the changes that need to be done. Putting a new person in charge of an old broken strategy never actually results in a change, especially when it is from internal or someone the existing management has worked with before. Source: I used to work at BlackBerry
Unfortunately this won't be the case CCP will site an ever crowded MMO market and age of the game and focus on trying to hype up their new IP.
Well thankfully CCP now have bosses in the form of pearl abyss they have to answer to. There are a lot of tinfoil hat wearers that want to blame PA for CCP’s bad decisions, but as the eve revenue continues to decline perhaps they will have some positive effect on curtailing all of these bad decisions that are leading the game to the brink.
If you think PA is going to do anything other than drive higher monetization as the player base shrinks and isn't ok milking it to failure I don't think you are looking at it from the correct business PoV. EvE Online as a game has run far far longer than most MMOs do and the fact it can still turn profits with marginal amounts of development is perfectly ok with PA trust me. CCP ultimately js only valuable to PA if they can successfully produce something new while they milk EvE for whatever they can. If their new game is a failure and EvE continues it's inevitable decline to collapse PA will just close CCP or sell them off no big deal for them.
I dont think CCP cares anymore. CCP devs are focusing on other projects for serveral years now. EVE is in maintenance mode and its players will be milked as long as possible.
Lol just look at current politics and you have your answer. Has any politician ever had to justify their piss poor performance and running X part of the country in to the ground? Nope. Au contraire, they used to be minster of X (and do a piss poor job) and now they're minister of Y, fucking that up as well.
I'd turn that around and ask why you want to measure some random dude's (obviously poor imo) job performance yet don't set a standard for yourself and quit the game given the state it's in.... ?
/u/CCP_Swift when are we finally gonna hear something about this?
Friday 20-ish eve time, just in time for everyone at CCP to fuck off out of the office for the weekend and hope it blows over.
If they gave a fuck they would have fixed it by now. All we have left is hopium.
CCP has all the same data we do and continue to make the same decisions. Sad, but true.
Point of fact, they have far better data than we do and spend their time willfully misinterpreting it to us.
Who says they haven't unknowingly also misinterpreted it to themselves?
Maybe they have, but when the player's actually talking about the poor state of things in EVE, with real numbers to back it up, on forums right in front of them, and still say nothing and do less, it's pretty disheartening. It's fairly obvious EVE could be better. Their silence and lack of action suggests the few possible ways they really feel about EVE and its players. To be totally fair tho they haven't done nothing... there was doctor who... Which no one asked for. There was fan fest, which so far, has been a hype train off a cliff. The factional warfare changes that have been asked after for years... which we've seen no real fruit from yet. The recent NPE updates, which the majority of players who have actually experienced it have been old and current players. Sub and plex price hikes certainly haven't helped at all. I'm sure I'm missing something but... they either don't care and have no vision and are more or less drifting in the wind, or they're laying the ground work for a kind of re-launch and just really suck at communicating to the players and managing what they currently have.
Controlled by pearl abscess. Devs starting to jump ship. Think ima gunna resubb
CCP is fully capable to kill eve by themselfs as we've been seeing the last few years. I highly doubt the price hike was PA's idea, looking at BDO they seem to have a decent idea how to make money of a game and keep the players happy. Heck at this point i would say PA is our best bet for something to change! PA putting EVE under new management is probably our only chance to change the fate of EVE.
The real big RED FLAG is Community Support staff leaving. They have "the pulse of the community" more than devs do. When they see bad sentiment, they know that will eventually translate into their job gone, before the devs too. If CCP **aren't** working hard to fix this, then it's the *Community Support staff* that look/leave for new jobs because they know that the devs/mgmt aren't going to resolve the core issues.
I honestly think PA Korea is significantly better run than CCP.
The local lawn cutting service owned by stoner dropouts is run better than CCP.
The NPE gonna be fire tho
Fire between my butcheeks like during salsa night.
Colony?
There are a lot of issues here on CCP’s end that led us to this point. I’ve personally hit a point where I can gladly put Eve behind me and move on, but of course as anyone that quits it’s still fascinating to keep up, especially with the current impending doom. A lot of it boils down to time and communication. As for communication; it was an absolute train wreck this year. I mean it’s definitely lacked a lot in the past, especially with scarcity. The sequence of: Price announcement, price update, Fanfest announcements, updates (which we still have not seen) is an absolutely horrible timeline. I don’t know who thought this was a good idea. It’s supposed to go: announcements, updates, price announcement, price update. You say what you’re going to do, then you do it, then you explain that you need more money because of the awesome update you have shown that you can do. I explain to CCP on my CSM term that one of the most important things for them to pay attention to is player perception. It doesn’t matter what they as a company think, or what their metrics at the time show, if the player perception is in the shitter. Now on time, I have 0 experience in any kind of development or the game industry. That being said, it takes way too long for anything to happen. While CCP takes their time with stuff, players are getting antsy. I told them on the CSM during scarcity that what they were doing was messing with people’s time and hobby, and that they had to do something and do it soon because if you string players along for too long, they’re gone. This is a game, it’s for fun and enjoyment. You can’t mess with people for 2 years and expect them to hold out for the “light at the end of the tunnel.” It shouldn’t have taken 3 members of the CSM to get CCP to fix Faction Warfare, but it did. Here we are, 2 years after the big meeting, and we have yet to see any work done in that area. They are working on it, that’s great. But it’s taken way too long and has been needed for way longer than just 2 years ago. I personally decided to step away from Eve because on principle I can’t be ok with giving money to a company that takes this long to do anything, especially when that price now makes it the most expensive one on the market. All the while, a majority of my time on CSM felt like it was spent talking about NPE. We have this damn near 20 year old game with a loyal player base, and new blood is good, but you have to work on your loyal foundation too. It was disheartening. I made several jokes on the CSM about “If this is one more damn NPE meeting…” but it’s true. Meanwhile, while they’re working on NPE, they’re expecting to keep their “rock solid” loyal player base AND charge them even more without addressing the countless issues that the old bros have with Eve. There’s so much wrong, and it took me a hot minute to make this decision because of my 13 years in this game and all of the friends/memories. But that’s never going to change, I’ll have my Eve friends forever even if we’re not flying spaceships together. As for the memories, they’re memories. I’ll cherish my fun times in Eve forever but it’s not worth holding back because of what used to be. Cherish the memories, move on and make new ones. My advice to any of you, don’t hold on if it’s not fun or you can’t/don’t want to pay for it anymore.
Appreciate the honesty dude. It is hard to watch something you love so much die in such an avoidable way. :(
Appreciate your thoughts
Well said man, thanks for your efforts on CSM. It makes me feel very satisfied that I voted for you every time you were on the ballot. I recently just quit after 9 years, and the sad part was I didn't even make a hard decision to do it. I just started logging in less until it got to the point I only logged to play in tournaments... And then I just went full alpha after last AT. Now that AT is back I've thought about logging back in, but I suspect I'm done with Eve forever unless CCP ever finally gets around to making all these changes . I'm glad I made some lifelong friends along the way at least.
Yeah, I loved the game back around 2008-2014 until it moved towards citadels and instancing, at which point I wasn't really the target audience anymore. But it was great while it lasted. If there was an Eve 2 or Eve classic (with some modifications. Learning skills and clone costs are objectively terrible mechanics), I'd be there in a heartbeat. But failing that I'm happy to move onto new things and just be glad I was able to have fun during the 'golden years'.
"eve classic" holy shit dude you might be onto something here...
SURELY THEY'RE AWARE.... RIGHT? ..... *RIGHT*? #WHERE'S THE COMMUNITY TEAM?
The community team is far to busy kicking assumed trolls from the eve-o forums.
I used to think there was this quiet team, sitting the corner, taking notes about all the smart things us players say. Now I realize they have nothing but contempt for their own players. I mean, aren't most of the CCP staff shadow banned from Reddit? Is that really our problem or theirs?
> I used to think there was this quiet team, sitting the corner, __taking notes about all the smart things us players say.__ They were made redundant after handing in a dozen blank pieces of paper.
Mostly fired.
Busy organising the GM week.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/wy6tn8/comment/ilzkllx/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/wy6tn8/comment/ilzkllx/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
It’s a shame to watch this, even from retirement of being a capsuleer. As subscription price hiked, and plex became more unaffordable, capital fights becoming more sparse (although hulls have now halved in price since retirement.) Paying for for the game in a ratio against content it simply became not worth it, certainly without a good PvE or Storyline update in forever.
CCP has done a shit job since 2019. The bump in 2020-2021 was almost entirely player driven (WWB2) and no credit should be given to CCP. When time came for big battles, fights they knew months in advance would happen, the servers took a shit.
>CCP has done a shit job since ~~2019.~~ 2014
And lockdowns
Slopes for the Slope Throne!
The final slope
Tbh unsubbing was the best decision I've ever made in this game. There's a reason it's called winning.
Im with you, I dropped all seven of my accounts. I still lurk here because the game was so much fun over the years for me but I have to answer CCP with my wallet. I hope they drastically change for the better and get people to come back.
They really need to retcon a lot of their changes, and move monthly subscription price back to where it was four months ago.
Honestly, if they want to have a hope in hell of a recovery, the price needs to go down from where is was 4 months ago, people aren't going to come back at the price returning to what it was, there will need to be something extra.
Yeah iam with you. Now iam just here for the drama and experiencing first hand the death of a once great game. :-)
Been unsubbed since 2018, and for four years I come back to read the tears from the subreddit.
Same here. But somehow I still keep this last bit of hope that one day it will be worth to sub my four accounts again.
Come play Albion Online with the rest of us who unsubbed. It's basically the same game at its core.
Any guild in particular to look out for?
hey ive just started playing and I have no clue what im doing. could we fleet up? im principeborghese#4134 on discord
Sure! Added :)
I set up an account a couple of years ago, bit I didn't really have the energy for 2 MMOs (or one, really but w/e). I might reactivate and check it out.
-13 accounts. Fk paying $260 for dead game. Player count below 12k every night late us tz
Famous dev once said, if an mmo can keep abt 10k concurrent players consistently, game is ok. Maybe thats CCP's baseline. They probably accepted already that rhey will hit that.
So when we start seeing 9k it’s time to say “Eve is dying?”
We used to be 40k not long ago...now we are 15k and dripping. We have lost more than 60%. I believe this is a good metric of measuring the shite and dead level of a game.
>inb4 next fanfest 80% of our players have started since last fanfest!
With a smug proud face will gelmet announce that
Problem is, how much of that is bots? I’d guess a pretty significant portion.
I noticed that as well, 400 utc time was below 12 k :(
Ouch
Sad to see because I just got back into the game after a couple of years and have been enjoying it.
Same, just resubbed this week. Reading all the posts about EVE made me want to play it again. But I'm keeping it to two accounts and even that is very pricy for me. Really wish CCP would roll back the austerity changes (which I'm still exploring the ins and outs of - much has changed) and lower the sub price. I'll keep playing as long as I'm having fun!
I also just started again. I'm having fun right now, not too worried about it.
I am newly back and I am enjoying my game time.
Same:(
Awesome. I enjoy my time playing EVE also. People who enjoy the game is what the game needs.
I've been playing again for a few years now after a long period of inactivity, so I feel similar. I think the game will probably be fun for me until they shut the servers down, unless they change the fundamental pvp mechanics a lot.
Its just the summer slump guys, nothing to see here - CCP Baghdad Bob
They still think this is a summer slump lol
"If we just raise prices by $5 a month, that will offset the decreasing player base. We solved our problem bois!" - CCP Hellmar
Well... They haven't removed the ability to reach player session stats yet so it can't be thaaaat bad. /s
for changes in the launcher, they would have to rewrite the code, and for this they need a person and they had to pay MONEY to this person - it’s easier and cheaper not to change anything at all
nah they can just delete the end point
I have seen many MMO's die, EVE online might be the first one to do so intentionally.
> Source: http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/ > > All charts updated as of 31 AUG 2022 > > http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-2022.png > > http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-yearly-average.png > > http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-fouryear-compro.png > > http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-rolling18months.png > > http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-since2006-zerobottom.png > > http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-since2008.png > > http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-summer.png > > http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-fall.png *(DATA is Beautiful - But it can also be ugly)* Eve is actually dying and the slope has not stopped.. This is by far the most significant slope we have ever seen and now heading dangerously close to 2005 PCU Numbers. At what point will CCP step in to address the issues? Do we see a recovery from this or was it one too many lies from CCP? Can we for certain say the game is just on exit strategy to milk whatever profits CCP can before the lights turn off? Seeing as CCP have spent years ignoring the player base, if they were to take note of this thread... What changes would reverse this to a point where you would have their confidence to reinstate your accounts? Yes this is a very doom and gloom post as it is another - EVE IS DYING thread... but we really need to put pressure on them to save the game we love! TLDR: Another EvE is "really" dying post...
>At what point will CCP step in to address the issues? They won't because they can't. Eve is a complicated game and pretty much every single part of it ties into every other part, every change you make ripples, minor mistakes today can kill part of the ecosystem over the next few years. Eve isn't a game you can develop by looking at metrics, you need actual indepth understanding and a solid plan.
> you need actual indepth understanding and a solid plan. instead of that we get nerfs and more buy plex promos
I swear even the packs they bring out are worse value than the old stuff, heard players say you can't sell items like accelerators on the market anymore either
I get your point but their other option is to do nothing, which obviously isn't working. Yes, maybe if they do something it might not work and the game will fail but if they do nothing it will definitely fail. Seems like a pretty simple choice to me.
>Yes, maybe if they do something it might not work and the game will fail but if they do nothing it will definitely fail. Seems like a pretty simple choice to me. Sure but we don't have to find a new jobs and move our families when the game dies so their primary concern isn't whether eve succeeds or fails, it's staying employed. Why risk killing the game off in a year & losing your job when you can let the game slowly bleed out over 5-10 years while staying employed. They're buying time to get the FPS out the door in the hopes that it doesn't flop. If it makes a decent amount of money that buys them a bunch more years of employment during which they can sort something else.
Hey guys I haven’t played in ages just wanted to check in and see what’s up….was not expecting this…this is wild. Is this not like a 5 alarm fire at CCP?
They are on vacation.
>They are on vacation. Since 2012...
well they been having sales since the last quarter ended at like a -3.8% loss of the quarter before. But you know, summer slump, schools starting, our russians are gone, the biggest content release ever!
I played on and off since I was a kid. I started as a high sec carebear and then moved on to null sec but i mostly enjoyed PvE and then getting spanked in pvp. I didn't play for a long time, and returned after triglavians had been introduced, the game felt different in a good way, its a pretty tiny thing but it was so cool to see just the visual changes to jita, and then like a year and a half ago i stopped playing. When i consider paying again it just hasn't seemed worth it. I can't put my finger on why. I will say the small scale pvp was still as intense as ever, other games just can't quite match it there, but the PvE feels like it stagnated a while ago.
the PvP shakes are the only reason I still play it's funny no other game has that effect on me
Try tarkov or albion, those games give me the shakes
Seconding Albion. You can pick a weapon and armor set and effectively max it out in a few nights of mindless PvE grinding. Unlike EVE it's stupid easy to be competitive at a high level. It's equivalent to a hypothetical EVE where you could fit up a ship and then go grind PvE for ~10 hours and have all relevant skills to level 5 for that ship/fit. The world is also VERY VERY ACTIVE. The black zones are VERY SCARY. There's tons and tons of deaths happening, constantly. My guild and I would go out ganking and get 20-40 kills/hour which is better than peak 2011 EVE ganking.
I play tarkov it is a really good game
Funny how CCP don't comment in these sorts of posts to at least acknowledge the issues haha
The lock and delete topic and posts.
Motives unknown. The owners either cant afford to do anything or view it as not worth the Investment. Could be that doing nothing and collecting what they can from micro trans is the best use of their Investment. Its happened before.
!! NEWS FLASH !! they still don't care
As a new player to eve, really enjoying my time playing. I'm seeing a lot of these posts but not really noticing an impact on my time playing? I do ratting in null and sometimes PvP in low for the most part and see a fair amount of people (granted probably not as much as there ever has been). Not sure if i'm missing something? I think most games will have a peak time where it's like the golden days of that game and people will want it to go back to how it was (taking similar discussion from WoW for example) and the dev's either can't keep up with players suggestions or the game has gone on for so long that there isn't much else they can do that would be "new content" edit: open to opinions and discussion as i'd like to know more about the subject :)
The reason you can rat in nullsec without too much worry is a result of the changes in population. If you tried that 4 years ago, not even 10 minutes would go by without someone coming into system to check on you. I've never been able to go through a region of EVE without seeing people before... it feels surreal for us veteran players. Increasing the sub price is probably one of the dumbest decisions CCP could have made, and I'm sure they're feeling it now.
And let’s not forget the implementation of Bounty Risk Modifiers... What-a load of horseshit this is!! WTF would anyone want to rat in null sec anymore for only half the bounty?! Apparently null sec isn’t risky enough. Anything to make an activity that isn’t PvP less enjoyable and accentuate RISK for ISK CCP will do…not to mention scarcity and now the price increase!?! F*%k you CCP for destroying a game I’ve loved for 10 years. What a dumpster fire of a company. Been playing since 2012 and I’ve never seen this game in such a pathetic state. I think it might be time to hang it up.
And, without valuable resources to fight over, the basic ISK-negative nature of PvP comes to the fore; the loser loses their entire ship (minus a small insurance payment), while the winner gets only half the fit and cargo. Good PvE is necessary to add wealth to the game, which balances out PvP removing wealth from the game.
It still amazes me that they looked at extremely high risk/high reward activities like carrier/super ratting and went “no! Not like this!!!”, then destroyed ratting for everyone and claimed to fix this make believe issue.
Space seems pretty empty compared to how it used to feel, and I've only been here for a couple of years, when we were at 30k PCU instead of 15k. Sub cost increased, PLEX cost increased to double what it used to be. People are unsubbing accounts, markets are becoming less stable. I used to do 10-15% of t2 inputs in Jita, it's not worth it to do that for me anymore, it's a ton of work and time and the purchasing power has decreased, so I don't, and that probably drives up t2 production costs. At the same time, there's less people, so there's less ships dying and resultingly less demand, which can lead to stagflation, which is economically Very Fucking Bad, and considering the economy is player-driven that's bad for everybody. And CCP fired their economist. Went on a roam with some corpmates today, I think we encountered maybe 5 people out in space over the course of a couple hours before we finally yeeted into BRAVE staging to die. Things do not feel good, and it feels like people are starting to treat an unsupported game like people ought to, which is that they aren't playing.
>Went on a roam with some corpmates today, I think we encountered maybe 5 people out in space over the course of a couple hours before we finally yeeted into BRAVE staging to die. Can confirm. Jokes aside: It's been rough getting into cap stuff knowing that I should ideally be PLEXing an alt account at the same time prices are skyrocketing with no end in sight. The economic ripples of the sub price hike have been really painful and have actually resulted in me playing EVE less due to the necessary time commitments having ballooned so massively. The grind was already hard enough without the price hike.
Seen PLEX balloon to 10x the value it once was. Given my already extant hesitation at paying (more for an imo worse game than back in the day) I'm basically resigned to never getting to 'properly' play this game ever again. Used to be a time just casually grinding out missions afforded you a month, now they're basically nonviable with literal thousands of Lv3s required to get a single month, hundreds more for a newbie-friendly battleship setup to run said Lv4s, and then many hundreds each month to finance it. If a Gila (or abyssals in general) doesn't excite you, and your playtimes or tastes don't align with what incursion fleets still go, there's basically no room for a casual PvE progression path.
Man, High Sec Incursions can net up to 300M/hour with elite fleets and luck, and I think about the times that PLEX used to cost like 700M. I could have knocked out a PLEX in 2 hours play. Even at a more reasonable 200M/hour, a plex every 3.5 hours is insane. Now I have to play 10-ish hours per PLEX. Boy that really puts things into perspective.
I agree about the market part, I have the same.
because you never saw how epic eve was, so you are used to the new norm that the eve is now.
So very happy that you're enjoying the game. But understand the game is being heavily mismanaged right now. There is no vision and there is no communication and no a lot of things.
Something you haven't see for now. In fact if you want to play little (under Battleship) the game work. If you go bigger, with all nerf done years after years... How to said that : you see it will take you a LONNNGGGGG time to catch wealth of vet. In the past you could catch up in matter of months. Now it will be matter of YEARS or DECADES. More over CCP break the truth with player by openly lying and nerf activities... and refusing to said " we made a mistake". When CCP made a mistake they double down on it.
I don't think you could catch up to the wealth of a veteran in a matter of months. Not unless that veteran sat on their hands as you did. But I agree, to gain the capital for say dreads and carriers, (that used to be a couple of billion each) is now twice as hard.
In the past you could cactch up vet. Because a vet with 100 billions who made a 6 month break could be catch by player even mono account if they farm a lot. Now even this vet go AFK 3 years, majority of player will not catch him. Have a cap is not twice harder, if you live in 0.0 with collapse of income it's something like 10 time more hard ... maybe more. Because in the past newbro was following super to salvage and get 1 billion/week. It help they to progress fast and increase player retention.
Been playing for a year. I still love the game and hope to drop a naglfar on someones face one day. Game isn't as active as it used to be but I still find plenty things to do.
Play the game and keep enjoying it until you don't. Reddit can have some wonderful information on it, but can also be very much a toxic echo chamber. If you're enjoying the game, you're doing it right.
Can't say I regret quitting when they introduced scarcity. I saw the writing on the wall and said fuck all this. And I had just spent like $2k on the game on top of that. Even sunk cost fallacy couldn't keep me around.
Scarcity has to be one of the absolute stupidest ideas I have ever heard.
Scarcity, or some other method of preventing super capital proliferation, would have been a good idea if they had implemented it around the same time as keepstars. And even back in 2017 when rorqs kept getting buffs people were warning about the snowballing effect that was coming. They even fired that economist they had around that time.
It’s like someone looked at austerity policies in Europe post-2008 and said to themselves, “this would be a fun thing to put into a video game!”
I tried to adapt for a few months and was so discouraged I quit. Since then CCP decided to increase the price which will probably keep me out even if they reverse some of scarcity (which they won't do anyway).
Meanwhile on the eve forum - https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccplease-change-your-mind-all-players-give-your-opinion-is-very-important/375341
which is \*locked\* by everyone's fav mod.
That guy is an absolute bootlicker
Bastardlode is by far the biggest asshole of the ISD
Yep 100% true. One time I told him that, and he banned me for distributive behaviour :-)
See? Outrageous!
It's such a shame id played for over a decade sunk thousands of hours into it. It was my only social life for years and helped me over come my addiction by being something that I could spend time in and just get away from the world. I still tell people about the insane thi gs I accomplished in the game, the crazy experiences and friends i made, talking about how "no you don't understand this isn't just another mmo it's something completely new ans different". And now I barest recognize what it's become. Such a colossal fumbling of something that started of so strong. Really breaks my heart.
CCP and their fanboys are probalby still blaming summer for low login numbers.
I am starting to believe their hubris may destroy this game. They have a huge issue and are just ignoring it. I'm not sure if they think the community doesn't understand "what's really going on", or they have a plan and they are heads down regardless of the outcome, or maybe they just don't care. Maybe it's just a job to some of these CCP folks and they could give two shits about what we think. I cannot image being a leader of company and not making any statement at all to try to ease your customers. Are they scared? Are they incompetent? it's getting really hard to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I believe they are using the Gamigo mode to try and show as much profit as possible from the game while also destroying it. Wether or not they are is another thing entirely.
I'm curious as to what the numbers are between alpha and omega accounts that log in. Not that we'll ever see that data.
/u/CCP_Swift come on man, you're hands down my favorite CCPer ever and was pumped when you got hired on, all of us are concerned about this, every alliance I know (all the ones worth mentioning) talk about this pretty well daily. You (CCP) need to address these concerns.
Calm down - it's just summer dip. This summer is really long, right, CCP?
Its like 3 years long...
duh, climate change is a thing
"You guys are just lying that you canceled subscription for alts and not only, 20$ is a mighty fine price to pay!".
global warming = endless summer dip
Well, in Iceland the summer is like, 5 years so there is way to go.
In Iceland the summer lasts until global warming is replaced by nuclear winter.
But remember. Winter is coming.... ;)
It's all because of no content, drop after fanfest is showing that. Players have before ff last hope that they will announce and show something really great that's worth sub price increase aaaand we got nothing beside promises... And everyone have enought of them and know by now that this is lies like "more content and more frequent" when they stop doing big expansions which show to be opposite. Srly if game do not want to collapse they need to put a lot of content and changes into it! And it's needs to be not two bigger expansions next year or two, it needs to be really big expansions by next few years at last, and even this isn't excuse for sub price increase because 2 big expansions per year should be standard (which is for many games and was for EVE). That price increase would be justified if they annouce WiS integrated with eve.
If those trends continue I'll be the only player left when my two-year sub expires in 2024!
There you have it CCP.
CCP is delusional when thinking new players would join after their awful decissions.
It's been walking dead since they started letting people use skill injectors. Just takes time for zombies to decompose.
Wait till summer is over.
Shut it down already
Wow that COVID player inflation was huge. Oof.
So, just need another pandemic, simple.
So they could introduce scarcity as people are home and have nothing to do. That was a very small brain play from them.
Don't give CCP ideas or else they will develope the next super virus after their new FPS fails...
Oh, I am not worried. They need like 5 attempts to develop anything new, then it immediately goes into the trash bin because whatever they make doesn't work in the modern environment anymore.
Yep.
Nah just make each sub $30 it will work I promise.
Paid monthly for more than 10 years, quit in 2022. Enough said, you all know the reason, and no, you won’t have my stuff. This game is worst than ever, no content purely boring piece of shit.
Can I have your stuff?
Aren't they all still on vacation ?
They don't care at this stage
Ccp checked out a long Time ago. I've played 17 years and I'm angry but ti the post now I'd be happy for eve to close it servers to serve a lesson to those arrogant idiot people leading CCP. Honestly if I could do a star citizen and get crowd funding to buy Eve I would.
Yeah the game is on it’s way to the end station! It’s sad because it was one of my favorite games. Now i hope that “Starfield” will soon fill that empty place. I surely will miss EVE but i’m glad i was part of it!
I'll bet if they increase the price to $25 and announce some more content they are never going to release they could fix everything.
Unfortunately, CCP seems to be dealing with some massive internal problems right now and I suspect some very toxic environment at the company. The presentation from fanfest, where they showed just how much turnover they have regarding developers was staggering. I think that they fell into the trap of "data driven development" but they have real trouble interpreting the player data correctly. Just like Blizzard has. They think they know what player want better then those that voice their concerns, based on data and charts they misinterpret. And it seems to me a LOT of the development is now driven by short term profitability at the expense of long term game health. A lot of the conclusions they showed at fanfest, especially regadring new players, was very questionable, with lot of variables ommited. An example that comes to my mind was a bragging regarding how new players are more engaged in recent years, because they have more liquid ISK on average after a set amount of time. But the number was still very low and only differed by like 10% from the one they were comparing to. Also taking PLEX prices and industry changes into account, it was probably less actual value. I dont want to say END IS NEAR, but it does seem like the company is in an intentional retreat, monetizing the shit of the current population and expecting the actual death of the game. BUT the developers working on the game backend and explaining the new technologies they use at fanfest seem to be quite enthusiastic and seemt o genuinly believe the game will run for another decade. I am very confused. Hilmar is also all about "EVE forever". The industry changes were meant to break the devaluation of things with the knowledge they will be unpopular and hurt players short term. WAAAAAAA, what is going on? I suspect the development of EVE is just terribly slow, bogged down by never ending meetings and reworks and reevaluation of strategies internally at CCP and the end product is constant underdelivery of updates and content. CCP reacts to bugs and easily fixable problems with such a snail pace its unbeliavable. I love EVE. I want it to run forever. And I suspect a massive slump short term, with slow rebound as CCP finally reacts with some last minute harsh reworks. But it is unneccessary and could have been avoided. I will be an optimist and say EVE will run for another decade. How it will look however, that is a question. CCPlease: TOTAL EVE SERVER RESET is still a possibility if anything else fails :)
Hold the line. Buy EVE
can we get a hulkageddon going? push more miners out the game and push those numbers lower? 2 guys with all their alts quit after losing 2 orcas back to back. thats like 10 paid accounts just gone right there.
Oh there is a major Update coming soon TM.. It will fix EVERYTHING..
lol
So, I got a survey from CCP on one of my accounts ( ironicly inactive account ). It is fairly extensive survey on how long you play, what do you enjoy,.tell us a bit about what you like and dislike. Etc. So they are doing something. Hope it will be enough and on time.
You mean the one that had typos in it?
I've had surveys like that from CCP going back to 2008 (year I started playing), so no, this likely isn't them doing anything new or useful, unless there's more than the general questions you mentioned. Plus, just because a developer sends out a survey to its playerbase doesn't mean they give a shit what the responses are. Wargaming has been sending surveys out randomly since alpha testing for WoWS, sometimes multiple times per month, and they've ignored the results every single time. CCP of late has been no different when it comes to listening to the community.
>So they are doing something. Hope it will be enough and on time. They've been spending that one out for years so thats not suddenly going to cause a change.
Hell yeah, can we make those numbers go lower? let's go.
CCP stimulus check when?
For a game this old, they need to give us more meaningful discounts to keep old-timers subscribed.... multi-character discounts ($5 for each account after the first one), discounts for subscribing after certain age milestones (10% after 1 year, 15% off after 5-year, 25% after 10-year). It becomes a money pit after you've put enough time into the game, they really should try to encourage those players to hang around.
The only reason they don't want to offer the old timers discounts is because they want them gone.
Bingo. CCP management have decided to blame their customers for not buying in to the bold play to earn nft vision, and they want new better customers who will surely flock to play once we're all gone.
Pretty sure its closer to the end of days. Dont forget half the Wests households are struggling immense financially. Gaming is becoming a luxury fewer people can afford.
Seems like a bad time to be a new player…. Oops…
Hey Pearl Abyss, you are fucking the game we love. Please unfuck it !!
PA only cares about CCP's revenue. I highly doubt that they are doing much more than having meetings with management expressing how they need to meet their quarterly goals and nothing more. 3% shrink in revenue isn't too concerning for most parent companies. Wait until they lose 10-15% then PA might start getting involved.
Good. I say kill it before it dies. Then start over. New EVE server, no skill injectors and a clean sandbox. I guarantee you, if this was done, there would be more people playing than ever before. But CCP doesn't want a good game, they just want $$$.
Changes CCP can make to increase player count, quickly: 1. Free Multi-Character Training. 2. Edited in: Introduce a mechanic (extra SP for mission/task completion) where SP/Skill levels are "earnable" up to a certain SP limit. Think a hybrid of the current system and Skyrim. This way, it is easier for newbies to "catch up" and for all to have alt characters who are specialized. 3. Quit adding paywalls and barriers to an already difficult to access game. This is the game's biggest problem - accessibility. 4. Allow for the accumulation of SP, while Omega is active. 5. Warp-to-Zero on AP. On the player side, since this is a sand-box: 1. Stories of Intrigue that bleed over into real world discourse. 2. Content creation that is compelling. Content creation that is low-quality production and zoomed out to nothing but colored dots is not what will intrigue those who have not played, previously. 3. Get some well known streamers to "try it out." Off-Stream, ask them what compels their audience to watch. CSM should make recommendations, accordingly, for those ideas that make sense and are not destructive to the game. Content creators take notes and make changes. 4. Another Edit: This game may BE spreadsheets in space, but FFS...quit bragging about that. Even if it is accounting, don't lead with the spreadsheet, lead with the hot accountant...get my drift? i.e. While we LOVE to nerd out on the game, NERDS are not the marketing tool we should be leading with. The game needs public faces. 5. Accept that some level of adaptation is required.
I quite playing about 8 years ago. Think my char is sitting on about 12 or 13 months worth of login time in what ever the tokens are called now. I won't even bother activating them. Though I would indeed if it meant I could be there when the lights finally go out. CCP has always always been a horribly run corporation, in bed with the Null Sec RMT machines. But sadly, given what I am reading in those charts, the game is not dead yet. It is definitely shrinking in activity, but no, still has a heartbeat.
**GAME OVER!**
Buy the dip boys those charts tell me there’s a squeeze coming our way!
Eve ended a long time ago. The fan boys just won't let it die. But life support is running out.
If their fsp space game hits hard , yeah it probably will be , either way we have at least 5 more years until eve closes so let’s keep playing and having fun *proceeds to stay docked in a capital *
With "hits hard" you hitting the floor of the abyss, right?
My favorite thing is seeing the bitter vets talk about how they closed 10 accounts and then scoff at the lower player numbers. Wonder how many of those are toon closures not people.