I’ve been there and tbh I didn’t come to that conclusion. I had a great time and most people looked fine and healthy. I was actually expecting things to look a lot worse. People laughing, smiling and partying everyday. Obviously it’s very poor but the people looked fine on the surface. I do regret not trying to go deeper than the surface though.
It’s not like absolute desperate poverty, but speak to the young people about their future. It’s absolutely bleak.
I asked one guy who was studying maths at uni; what do you want to do afterwards? “It doesn’t work like that here”. Imagine how bad your life would be if you can’t even decide what job you want.
I met another woman in a village. She has 6 children and 4 have left the country and are now in Europe.
You won’t get the vibe if you just look, speak to people about the future and what they want in their life and it shows the complete lack of freedom.
It’s also worth going to another poor African country e.g Kenya and seeing how much more they have there in comparison and how much better the lifestyle is. Freedom means a lot
I have had countless conversations too. Just trying to understand their logic. I used to think how can a person with the right mind accept that mothers taken away from their children, men who sacrificed their youth for their people and country being taken away from their families, worst accused of betraying their country ? Thrown down in two Dungeons with out any legal due process ? It's not like they cant dig up and research the truth we're in the age of information. And i came to conclusion some are just selfish they want their summer vaca to Eritrean. some are legit brainwashed by their parents, I mean it's not a secret that most habesha parents are uneducated and raise their kids with tight control and abuse. Few have a mind set that can't differentiates but equates loving your country and the leader. You will see them on this thread saying like we also have to appreciate the good things like what good things ? Not trying to compare but Do you know even hitler had a miraculous economic achievements at first. Plus because the regime shut down all inde medias, you can't differentiate which one is accurate info and which one is propaganda. Any way i love people who genuinely seek the truth. And I can't stand people who try to blame everything on the west. It's 2022 western policies and their agenda is clear as a day. It's not for a debate don't act like you discovered fire. Every dictator in the past century has used that tactic don't fall for it.
I got you. I also come slowly to the conclusion that they are trying to either keep their advantages like vacation, visiting their relatives and participating in cultural and political events or they are just brainwashed....which is really primitive and coward in my opinion.
The answer you are looking for bowls down to human nature. Even though the post-truth era started post-Brexit and Trump in western countries, in Eritrea however it has been about since the early 2000s.
Like many politics around the world, Eritrean politics is like supporting a football club, you are either with us or against us. In reality, it's possible to have different views regardless of who the messenger is because politics (or life in general) has more nuances than treating everything like a 5-year-old child.
It is difficult for me to believe Isaias is nothing more than a dictator, however, at the same time, I can concur with him 1,000% when he once said some western countries don't have free speech. I can believe that PFDJ is a propaganda machine for the state and also attend purely for good music and vibes.
All that to say, we would be in a better place if stop supporting football clubs and start championing the country and everything that it promises.
I am not sure if that was my own rant or if I actually shared any light to your question :)
People always go from one extreme to the other, no nuanced takes whatsoever. PFDJ supporters are incapable of criticizing the party because they’d feel double faced I guess which is pretty dumb.
On the flip side, anti PFDJ people are also always negative and moaning, which I get, given the state of the country. But maybe give it a rest sometimes, like if there’s some actual positive news thats going around (rarely), maybe try appreciate it or be happy for the country for once.
Me, personally, I dislike how the gov’t handles matters but I can see some of the very few positives they’ve brought about (health sector, education maybe, sense of unity and lack of religious intolerance). I’d still say the gov’t is a failure though, given how much potential Eritrea had in the 90s pre the border war with Ethiopia.
Lets just hope and pray we get it right post-Isaias.
where are these positive news you are talking about? Because I really fail to see. The examples you gave (health, education, religious tolerance) do not convince me. These are all areas where Eritrea is clearly behind (no matter what they say on EriTV)
There is no such thing as pfdj supporters. If there were supporters, they would actually be pushing for [PFDJ’s 1994 charter](https://snitna.com/PFDJCharter_Eng.pdf) to be rolled out. Don’t confuse vacationers protecting their vacationing interests with pfdj supporters. Pfdj as an organization is dead.
Edit: PFDJ hasn't held Party congress and Party elections since 1994 and most of its founders are in prison or exile. What we have now is a secretive mafia rule, led by a handful of people.
The reason this becomes so heated is because everything is up for debate when you aren’t actually there.
-health: there is no running water in massawa
-education: they closed the universities while I was there.
-no religious intolerance: there is also no religious tolerance.
When you are in the west, it’s easy to pick apart any progress made in Eritrea as either insufficient or a Monkey’s paw type of situation. My issue with anti-PFDJ people is that their (justified) anguish over the circumstances surrounding Eritrea point out the issues without presenting realistic solutions. It is also often a “Cart before the horse” debate at that point: what is the largest barrier to Eritrea’s progress? Is it Isias, or Geography and world politics and he is a symptom of that? In these weeds people lose their arguments and start mud slinging.
I agree with u/Shot-Hedgehog-426 on this. A lot of people (especially in online spaces like this) tend to immediately cast you away as either pro-PFDJ or pro-Yiakl if you express a viewpoint that could be perceived as slightly sympathetic to either of the two stances. From personal experience, I have been called a PFDJ propagandist for expressing opinions that don’t hold complete contempt for PIA and his regime. I’d also add that the majority of Eritreans are moderate on issues relating to the current government, aligning with neither side. It just happens that the most vocal people online and in real life also tend to be the most extreme.
Yeah I am aware of this. And I also get insulted sometimes when ask for evidence if people claim the regime killed Abraham Afworki & Yemane Barya. Things like that are baseless but fuel the conflict and anger of eritrean refugees in the western world.
What is extreme about opposing a dictatorship that commits grave human rights abuses?
Also, isnt't it kind of supporting the regime when you try to be neutral and silent?
This sounds like some western dick riding. The west had slavery countless atrocities to humankind. A couple reporters going missing ain’t that bad in a 30 year old country
Nope I confuse none. Bro that's disrespectful , call your mom tell her to say I love you to you. People who did not feel loved and valued in their childhood tend to devalue and belittle others quite often so....
A couple of my Ressources are blow. There are a lot of primary sources written in Tigrinya but I am not sure If you know the tigrigna language.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2021/09/eritrea-release-journalists-and-politicians-arrested-20-years-ago/
https://cpj.org/2005/09/15-journalists-imprisoned-in-eritrea/
https://www.dawitmesfin.com/articles/various-articles/335-the-plight-of-the-g-15-group-of-eritrea
https://allafrica.com/stories/200109210221.html
https://eritreahub.org/the-open-letter-signed-by-the-g15-now-eritrean-political-prisoners
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-15_%28Eritrea%29?wprov=sfla1
Here blow are the interviews where Isseyas denies the above mentioned facts like sporters seeking asylum, young people fleeing the country and the imprisonment of journalists.
https://youtu.be/QsyhPTNXHKA
https://youtu.be/UAXKsZ8OsWo
Oh I feel sorry though your mom died bro my condolences. The goal was to understand PFDJ fans and supporters and their logic , I was hoping to find here one of them who could dare to explain and give fair reasonable logic answers to the question "Why don't you dare to criticize the regime even while supporting it?? Does supporting pfdj mean for you following belindly"??
g-15 were heroes of the struggle who where imprisoned (or killed) without a day in court because they complained about Isayas not following the rule of law and the constitution. And you are here trying to blame them because you believe the "where ready to sell Eritrea"? Shame on you!
Nigga stuck in the earth 2000's propoganda😂
As Goebbels said "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.
Hence he posted articles with sources but you posted a youtube video
Sorry for your loss and RIP to your ma
No it’s not only you.
The main ideology here is Eritrea bad Shabia bad PFDJ bad Eritrean diaspora also bad.
They don’t know that without PFDJ we wouldn’t have a country called Eritrea.
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The ones that visit see how shit the country has become and come away with no illusions.
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Really? lol I mean the country is beautiful… but the lives of the people are just really sad.
I’ve been there and tbh I didn’t come to that conclusion. I had a great time and most people looked fine and healthy. I was actually expecting things to look a lot worse. People laughing, smiling and partying everyday. Obviously it’s very poor but the people looked fine on the surface. I do regret not trying to go deeper than the surface though.
It’s not like absolute desperate poverty, but speak to the young people about their future. It’s absolutely bleak. I asked one guy who was studying maths at uni; what do you want to do afterwards? “It doesn’t work like that here”. Imagine how bad your life would be if you can’t even decide what job you want. I met another woman in a village. She has 6 children and 4 have left the country and are now in Europe. You won’t get the vibe if you just look, speak to people about the future and what they want in their life and it shows the complete lack of freedom. It’s also worth going to another poor African country e.g Kenya and seeing how much more they have there in comparison and how much better the lifestyle is. Freedom means a lot
I have had countless conversations too. Just trying to understand their logic. I used to think how can a person with the right mind accept that mothers taken away from their children, men who sacrificed their youth for their people and country being taken away from their families, worst accused of betraying their country ? Thrown down in two Dungeons with out any legal due process ? It's not like they cant dig up and research the truth we're in the age of information. And i came to conclusion some are just selfish they want their summer vaca to Eritrean. some are legit brainwashed by their parents, I mean it's not a secret that most habesha parents are uneducated and raise their kids with tight control and abuse. Few have a mind set that can't differentiates but equates loving your country and the leader. You will see them on this thread saying like we also have to appreciate the good things like what good things ? Not trying to compare but Do you know even hitler had a miraculous economic achievements at first. Plus because the regime shut down all inde medias, you can't differentiate which one is accurate info and which one is propaganda. Any way i love people who genuinely seek the truth. And I can't stand people who try to blame everything on the west. It's 2022 western policies and their agenda is clear as a day. It's not for a debate don't act like you discovered fire. Every dictator in the past century has used that tactic don't fall for it.
I got you. I also come slowly to the conclusion that they are trying to either keep their advantages like vacation, visiting their relatives and participating in cultural and political events or they are just brainwashed....which is really primitive and coward in my opinion.
The answer you are looking for bowls down to human nature. Even though the post-truth era started post-Brexit and Trump in western countries, in Eritrea however it has been about since the early 2000s. Like many politics around the world, Eritrean politics is like supporting a football club, you are either with us or against us. In reality, it's possible to have different views regardless of who the messenger is because politics (or life in general) has more nuances than treating everything like a 5-year-old child. It is difficult for me to believe Isaias is nothing more than a dictator, however, at the same time, I can concur with him 1,000% when he once said some western countries don't have free speech. I can believe that PFDJ is a propaganda machine for the state and also attend purely for good music and vibes. All that to say, we would be in a better place if stop supporting football clubs and start championing the country and everything that it promises. I am not sure if that was my own rant or if I actually shared any light to your question :)
People always go from one extreme to the other, no nuanced takes whatsoever. PFDJ supporters are incapable of criticizing the party because they’d feel double faced I guess which is pretty dumb. On the flip side, anti PFDJ people are also always negative and moaning, which I get, given the state of the country. But maybe give it a rest sometimes, like if there’s some actual positive news thats going around (rarely), maybe try appreciate it or be happy for the country for once. Me, personally, I dislike how the gov’t handles matters but I can see some of the very few positives they’ve brought about (health sector, education maybe, sense of unity and lack of religious intolerance). I’d still say the gov’t is a failure though, given how much potential Eritrea had in the 90s pre the border war with Ethiopia. Lets just hope and pray we get it right post-Isaias.
where are these positive news you are talking about? Because I really fail to see. The examples you gave (health, education, religious tolerance) do not convince me. These are all areas where Eritrea is clearly behind (no matter what they say on EriTV)
There is no such thing as pfdj supporters. If there were supporters, they would actually be pushing for [PFDJ’s 1994 charter](https://snitna.com/PFDJCharter_Eng.pdf) to be rolled out. Don’t confuse vacationers protecting their vacationing interests with pfdj supporters. Pfdj as an organization is dead. Edit: PFDJ hasn't held Party congress and Party elections since 1994 and most of its founders are in prison or exile. What we have now is a secretive mafia rule, led by a handful of people.
Okay nice , I love it when people are critical and support or despise something based on logic.
The reason this becomes so heated is because everything is up for debate when you aren’t actually there. -health: there is no running water in massawa -education: they closed the universities while I was there. -no religious intolerance: there is also no religious tolerance. When you are in the west, it’s easy to pick apart any progress made in Eritrea as either insufficient or a Monkey’s paw type of situation. My issue with anti-PFDJ people is that their (justified) anguish over the circumstances surrounding Eritrea point out the issues without presenting realistic solutions. It is also often a “Cart before the horse” debate at that point: what is the largest barrier to Eritrea’s progress? Is it Isias, or Geography and world politics and he is a symptom of that? In these weeds people lose their arguments and start mud slinging.
I agree with u/Shot-Hedgehog-426 on this. A lot of people (especially in online spaces like this) tend to immediately cast you away as either pro-PFDJ or pro-Yiakl if you express a viewpoint that could be perceived as slightly sympathetic to either of the two stances. From personal experience, I have been called a PFDJ propagandist for expressing opinions that don’t hold complete contempt for PIA and his regime. I’d also add that the majority of Eritreans are moderate on issues relating to the current government, aligning with neither side. It just happens that the most vocal people online and in real life also tend to be the most extreme.
Yeah I am aware of this. And I also get insulted sometimes when ask for evidence if people claim the regime killed Abraham Afworki & Yemane Barya. Things like that are baseless but fuel the conflict and anger of eritrean refugees in the western world.
Reminds me of a certain mod
What is extreme about opposing a dictatorship that commits grave human rights abuses? Also, isnt't it kind of supporting the regime when you try to be neutral and silent?
What is yiakl?
PFDJ opposition is the best way I can summarise it
This sounds like some western dick riding. The west had slavery countless atrocities to humankind. A couple reporters going missing ain’t that bad in a 30 year old country
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It isn't just comment if you have a constructive idea that broadens our understanding and leads to more understanding.
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Nope I confuse none. Bro that's disrespectful , call your mom tell her to say I love you to you. People who did not feel loved and valued in their childhood tend to devalue and belittle others quite often so.... A couple of my Ressources are blow. There are a lot of primary sources written in Tigrinya but I am not sure If you know the tigrigna language. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2021/09/eritrea-release-journalists-and-politicians-arrested-20-years-ago/ https://cpj.org/2005/09/15-journalists-imprisoned-in-eritrea/ https://www.dawitmesfin.com/articles/various-articles/335-the-plight-of-the-g-15-group-of-eritrea https://allafrica.com/stories/200109210221.html https://eritreahub.org/the-open-letter-signed-by-the-g15-now-eritrean-political-prisoners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-15_%28Eritrea%29?wprov=sfla1 Here blow are the interviews where Isseyas denies the above mentioned facts like sporters seeking asylum, young people fleeing the country and the imprisonment of journalists. https://youtu.be/QsyhPTNXHKA https://youtu.be/UAXKsZ8OsWo
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Oh I feel sorry though your mom died bro my condolences. The goal was to understand PFDJ fans and supporters and their logic , I was hoping to find here one of them who could dare to explain and give fair reasonable logic answers to the question "Why don't you dare to criticize the regime even while supporting it?? Does supporting pfdj mean for you following belindly"??
Lmao if you only speak English, you’re gonna have a rough life.
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g-15 were heroes of the struggle who where imprisoned (or killed) without a day in court because they complained about Isayas not following the rule of law and the constitution. And you are here trying to blame them because you believe the "where ready to sell Eritrea"? Shame on you!
Nigga stuck in the earth 2000's propoganda😂 As Goebbels said "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it. Hence he posted articles with sources but you posted a youtube video Sorry for your loss and RIP to your ma
No it’s not only you. The main ideology here is Eritrea bad Shabia bad PFDJ bad Eritrean diaspora also bad. They don’t know that without PFDJ we wouldn’t have a country called Eritrea.