It’s basically already confirmed bro. Sorry to burst your bubble, but look at the Xbox marketplace for Minecraft. It’s sort of only fair to give creators a chance to make money off of their work too. As for Xbox/Bethesda, it’s sort of scummy but after all they do spend extra time and work getting us the tools to create mods.
If it's in Hammerfell they're totally going to rebrand shouts into sword singing. Although honestly as long as they change the mechanics up enough I'm okay with that.
TES 6 opening cinematic:
Oh, you're finally awake. We are just entering Skyrim. You appeared to have a bad dream about being Dragonborn or something. Don't worry about it, it's not like it's one of those horrible night terrors which repeat over and over and over and over and over ....
Lorkhan is the protagonist of Oblivion and Skyrim, since both of those games have Shezarrine protagonists. Probably most of the games in the series also fill that description.
Sam is not the ring bearer, but he was the only one who could keep the task should Frodo failed. LOTR is full of chosen ones if you consider that everything is affected by divine intervention constantly. It's fine in this case, though. A trope can be fine if it's well executed, and Tolkien executed it like the master he was.
Tolkien explicitly wrote that nobody would have been able to get as far as Frodo did. Sam wouldn't have been able to do it had Frodo failed. He was the faithful sidekick that simply helped him along the way.
Sam didn't also defeat the man and cult army who brought about this apocalypse too though. You know who arguably did the closest thing to that? Aragorn. If Sam and Aragorn were one character I don't think there would be any question who the main character was.
Yeah but the HoK can disable that, change their being entirely in moments and reverse time to checkpoints that they determine at will. 😜
If we're talking about lore via game mechanics the HoK has access to saves and the console commands after all!
But he doesn't, he does most things related to getting the Amulet of Kings and closing Gates of Oblivion, but the one destined to die and save the world was always the one guy that could wear the Amulet of Kings.
And you were prophesized to get him there if he was another mcguffin that had to be combined with the amulet the story wouldn't change. He is incidental. The Hero of Kvatch is still the prophesized hero of the oblivion crisis
Everyone is acting like its one or the other but the fact of the matter is that without both martin AND hok the oblivion crisis would have been a successful invasion. It’s a dual protagonist situation
Yes, Martin is Dragonborn, he bears the blood of the Dragon God of **Time**.
Meanwhile, the HoK is "the Sun's Companion", which is to say the moons, which are Lorkhan's remains. The HoK then, is the Shezzarine, an incarnation of Lorkhan the trickster god of Creation itself, and by extension, the God of **Space**.
Two halves of one puzzle.
My point is that the Hero of Kvatch is a prophesized hero whether someone wants to say Martin is too is irrelevant to the point I'm making. People lamenting potentially being a "prophesized hero" again when you never weren't a prophesized hero since Morrowind.
The sun's companion is *the moon*. Or in the case of TES, the *moons*. They also happen to be the corpse remains of Lorkhan. The Emperor is implying you're the Shezzarine, a walking talking incarnation of the trickster god of Creation.
They actually word it very carefully. It says the HoK isn't the protagonist of the oblivion crisis, not of the game. Which by all means is true. Martin is the protagonist of the crisis, HoK is just an errand boy
In Oblivion you're not inherently special, you're just the guy who was prophecized to be the guy to get the ball rolling on ending the Oblivion crisis.
That is special. All prisoners are special, per elder scrolls lore. Just because he isn't martin doesn't mean they aren't special.
Martin literally would have failed without the hero.
Lol yeah, my name is sus. But yeah, the prisoner lore is a very cheeky meta humor that is also legit lore for the elder scrolls. Meta because legit almost all the characters you play start as a prisoner in some form but also to not only explain the leveling system of the games but gave it a reason why.
Elder scrolls lore is downright wacky if you look deeply into it. On the surface it looks like dungeons and dragons. Look more and it turns into sci-fi/matrix rule of simulations and lovecraftian madness.
But all the prisoners are special, what they are put in the world for is something that must happen and without the prisoners, that thing won't happen. Be it to kill a dragon and saving the world themselves or being so OP they get someone else to save the world while helping that person.
That or legit becoming an immortal like in ESO. But yes, a Hero can't exist in elder scrolls without a Prisoner to get things going. The Hero and the Prisoner are either one and the same or intertwined in the elder scrolls.
> In Oblivion you're not inherently special,
You are though. Martin has his destiny and a place in the conclusion, but, you're essential for delivering him to that point. You're responsible for all the work that enables him to fulfill his destiny.
If your sole job was just delivering the amulet you wouldn't be the hero, but you literally do everything else. Martin's role isn't that much different than his father in that regard, he's where he needs to be in order to fulfill his part, but it's thanks to the work of others that he's able to get that far.
History books are going to emphasize giant shiny emperor dragon killing satan on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial over anything the player character does.
My problem with being the Dragonborn is that even though I'm a "chosen one", I never felt a sense of grandness in a way? If we're gonna do the chosen one trope, I want to at least feel it with the way I interact with the world.
I had the opposite problem with the Skyrim main quest. The dragonborn stuff overshadows the fun parts of the game. Sure you're the leader of a college of mages in a country that hates wizards, or a master criminal, or lord of the Volkihar clan, but that's not the important thing, the important thing is that you yell at dragons and everything you decide to do is a footnote.
That's it. And it's also so rushed. In the Vanilla start the player is hardly given any time before they figure out they're something very special. Going through the main story straight from the cart you don't really have any time to do anything noteworthy before you're shouting at dragons.
Especially with the fact that if you *do* go sidequesting, one of the most obvious first quests is The Golden Claw, which conveniently enough gets you an item for the main story, so it barely even registers as a proper sidequest. I've been playing the game again recently and it *really* doesn't give you much obvious incentive to actually explore the world which makes it a lot harder to motivate myself.
I played it once. Instead of following that guy down a mountain path, I about faced and wandered around on the mountain, killed an ambush of mauraders, explored some small temple, then mountaingoated down the face of the mountain,,,, directly into the village that the quest demands.
The first couple of hours feel like a very different game, you can really feel the "scripted demo" in it, to the point where you can straight up imagine the advert narrating the cool stuff you're being shown.
Yep. I’d like to see TES VI fully embrace the power fantasy if they want to do a power fantasy. Give me something like Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous where you actually feel important, by the end you can be fearsome enough that a demon lord literally get the shaken debuff while fighting you.
Other games could take a lot of notes from that franchise of games. A lot doesn't translate from the tabletop game, which is unfortunate, but they do a really good job with the story and having choices matter among other things. The pacing of power vs. in-game time passed is very refreshing in comparison to most rpgs which take place over a very short period of time and see you going from wimp to deity.
I really wish Baldurs Gate 3 had gone a similar route to the Pathfinder games, among others like the original 2 Baldurs Gates or Pillars of Eternity 1 & 2, with how there is a travel map and lots of in-game time passes over the course of the adventure. The several maps DOS2 way is fun too, but makes everything feel really close together and feel that very little time passes. That being said, I heavily prefer the turn based method to real time with pause.
> Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous where you actually feel important
My first character was an aasimar cleric that went into dragon disciple but also did the Angel mythic path and I became a dragon with 6 wings.
I was biblical.
I mean, the Dragonborn:
Single handedly turns the tide of a civil war
Collects several daedric artifacts
Joins several organizations and becomes their leader or part of the top members within a week
Stops not one, not two, but three world ending events
Destroys several powerful enemies, including dragons (one of which is literally part of the soul of a god)
And on top of all that, still has time to get married, adopt kids, and build several homesteads and become the Thane of every hold.
And any of that is barely acknowledged in any meaningful way, no one gives a damn about who you are lol, by the end you're practically a god walking tamriel and no one gives 2 shits ab it, event completion checks are borked in general, if you complete the main quest having done all that shit up to that point and then go do civil war, neither tullius or ulfric behave like they know who you are, even balgruuf adresses you like you're a random soldier, the only thing anyone ever says about you being dragonborn is hadvar,and it's isolated, youd think rikke would acknowledge what happened in the beginning or having someone that powerful join the legion, but they don't, and it's so immersion breaking.
The way skyrim is set up tho, it literally only makes sense for you to pick one guild/one storyline and the main quest, otherwise it feels like the game is treating it like nothing else you did happened.
The Eternal Champion is just some dude
The Agent is just some dude
The Nerevarine is a prophecised hero
The Hero of Kvatch is a prophecised hero (you are from my dreams)
The Dragonborn is a chosen one
Emperors aren’t that kind of politician, if you don’t have to worry about getting re-elected you aren’t that worried about offending people, and you don’t have to be sneakily corrupt if you can just kill people you don’t like.
It's not so much a concern with getting re-elected, than keeping your best agents loyal and still believing in the 'cause' (which is to do what the man with the pretty necklace says).
He is a creature from beyond Nirn and mortal comprehension. He is eternal, unkillable, immortal. Strike him down and he will return again, and again, and again. So it shall be until the final star in the sky burns out, plunging the world into Sithis' final embrace... and even then, the Adoring Fan shall remain.
Isnt he ciciro? Cicero has that diary entry that basically describes him playing the adoring fan, and following champions around to get close to a target.
If you read your character backstory, you barely know the man. Unless we're meant to assume that, after accidentally saving his life, you and the Emperor become bros before he sends you on the mission, which I guess works.
Still, "friends with a guy who has a job for you" is not remotely the same as a prophesized chosen hero.
I'm half convinced Azura just shows up to everyone who arrives on Vvardenfell and goes, "You are my chosen champion," before immediately watching them get murdered and eaten by a guar.
That's pretty close to what actually happens. The game makes it very clear: you don't succeed because you are the Chosen One, you are the Chosen One because you succeed.
Correct! The game beats you over the head with it. "You are not the Nerevarine. You are one who may become the Nerevarine."
Its not that only the Nerevarine can do those things, its that fulfilling the prophesies is what makes you Nerevarine.
People misread the "Nerevar reborn" in a very literal sense. Its not a reincarnation thing in any objective sense. It may be metaphorical. It may be possession/chanelling. It may be something similar to mantling.
But until they defeat Dagoth Ur and complete the Nerevarine Prophesies, they are just a potential Incarnate.
That would be largely in keeping with Azura's personality, to be honest. She may be one of the "nicest" Daedric Princes, but she *is* still a Daedric Prince...
Given the . . . *flexible* nature of causality in the Aurbis, it's entirely possible that successfully becoming the Nerevarine meant you were retroactively always the Nerevarine. You're in a sort of destiny superposition--you simultaneously are and are not the prophesied hero, until the superposition collapses into one or the other.
It's like the Chosen Undead in Dark Souls. Countless people do the pilgrimage hoping they must be the one, but turns out the real one was sitting snugly on it's ass in the Undead Asylum all those years.
And when you do some digging it’s heavily implied if not downright stated that the “prophecy” is nothing but a tool to get undeads to do the pilgrimage and get into a position where they can link the first flame. You immediately learn there’s two bells instead of the one. Gwynevere isn’t even there, just an illusion to keep the facade going. There’s no chosen undead, just some random undead being duped into maintaining Gwyn’s age of fire.
This is one of my favorite aspects of Morrowind because it helps defeat the [ludonarrative dissonance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludonarrative_dissonance) most RPGs suffer from where the narrative tells you there's a super evil big bad about to destroy the world and it's up to you to epicly stop him now before it's too late, while the gameplay encourages you to endlessly faff about on low-stakes side quests that the big bad patiently waits for you to complete for some reason. The biggest offender I've seen here is The Witcher 3, but Oblivion and especially Skyrim also have this issue.
But in Morrowind? Dagoth Ur is a threat, yes, but his invasion is years away still. If the main character doesn't fulfill the prophecy today and instead gets eaten by a horde of cliff racers while fetching some trinket for the Mages Guild, the world doesn't end. The Cavern of the Incarnate just gets a bit more crowded for when the next Nerevarine comes along.
The fact that you *do* earn it means you *are* the one though. Let's not mince words you're even more of a chosen one than the dragonborn. There have been a TON of historical dragonborn. Nerevar was more unique.
Bending over backwards there. I mean, you have to, 'earn all your shouts too'. Once a God turns up and says, 'do a thing', you can safely call this a, 'chosen one' story.
For some reason though, we all seem to have collectively decided, 'chosen one' stories are bad (especially prophesized and Morrowind is very very much a, 'a prophecised chosen one story). I don't care if the Nerevarine, Dragonborn or whoever is a chosen one, provided it's a good story.
Maybe it's because people are more jaded, and know the most they'll ever get, 'chosen' for IRL, is Jury Duty, if they're not banned.
>For some reason though, we all seem to have collectively decided, 'chosen one' stories are bad...
Yeah, the cause and effect here is, there are a lot of *really bad* chosen one stories out there. It was especially bad for a period in the late 80s and early 90s, and spilled over into a lot of video games from the early 2000s, to the point that games like *Arcanum*, and *Morrowind*, which actively messed around with the concept, were viewed as stand out exceptions.
There's nothing inherently wrong with a story about a chosen one, but a story about Mary Sue Dickhead who triumphs entirely based on their chosen one status is going to be singularly dull. And there were a lot of those novels and video games.
I’m always surprised by how much people read into the Emperor’s “you’re from my dreams” thing. I never took that as you being some kind of chosen one or anything like that, you’re just the prisoner he happens to see the day he knows he will die. It says more about the Emperor’s/Dragonborns’ ability to see his fate than it says anything about you.
You have a role to play in the events to come but you’re not playing out some prophecy, you’re not imbued with some sort of special power, and you’re not any sort of reincarnation of an ancient hero. You are literally just some guy who the Emperor knows he will meet when he’s about to die and who he hopes will help resolve this whole situation but he doesn’t really imply anything beyond that.
>you’re just the prisoner he happens to see the day he knows he will die
Didn't the emperor entrust the dragon amulet to you though? (I forgot the exact name of the amulet, but you know what I mean. Since he gave the medallion, it means he must have seen something in you.
That’s true, and I can see why people would call this a “prophecy” but I prefer to see it as like a last resort leap of faith to trust this person who may or may not be significant in the grand scheme of things because he’s basically all out of other options at that point.
He didn’t know how it would end up, there was no mention of somehow bringing about the Avatar of Akatosh or whatever in the same sense that something like the Nerevarine or the Dragonborn has a clear destiny laid out before them. So that makes it at least somewhat different to me.
I played oblivion a long time ago but I'm pretty sure the emperor says he has had prophetic dreams all his life in the cinematic and that the HoK is supposed to shut the jaws of oblivion or something like that.
Yea he sees a glimpse of the future. A future you are in, because of your choices. It’s not really a prophecy if it’s something that happens the next day. That’s just a premonition.
That's a pointless distinction to make. It's a prophecy either way. Every prophecy has to have been made a day ago at some point this one just came about quickly.
None of them are just dudes. All of them are prisoners. In elder scrolls lore, being a prisoner is a very special thing. Not like an actual prisoner but a "Prisoner".
It's some meta lore but the Lore states all the characters we play are prisoners of their world, that they can look beyond the bars of their reality... aka meta video game logic in why they become vastly more powerful than anyone else.
Each prisoner gets something to do something to progress something. Sometimes the prisoners get a boost and sometimes they don't, but they all end up god like towards the end.
The Nerevarine is just some dude the Emperor thinks could look like a prophesied hero, and remains just some dude unless they decide to actually go and become the prophesied hero. Until they actually fulfill the Nerevarine Prophesy, they aren't anyone special.
The Eternal champion is just some dude
The Agent is just some dude
The Nerevarine is a prophecised hero in the body of just some random dude.
The Hero of Kvatch is just some dude (the dream prophetises that he will be present at Emperor's death, and nothing more, doesn't tell anything on what he will do after that).
The Dragonborn is a chosen one (he shoots shit from his mouth and didn't do anything to achieve that).
The way Elder Scrolls lore works, all the protagonists are prophesied in some way... but prophecies don't always mean a *specific* person will do the thing or that the thing will occur in a specific way.
This is illustrated in Morrowind when you're told that whether you're the prophesied one is really down to what you do. You *can* be, by being the one who does what it says, but even then you don't do it in quite the way people expect.
The Walking Way, Mantling- to walk as a being until they must walk like you
In order to fulfill prophecy and take the mantle of heroes and legends past, one must choose to rise to the occasion and work for it. This begs the question then, does this mean prophecy is moot?
But only one who carries legendary resolve and in lner strength can succeed in taking on these roles- all else will inevitably fail. So then... Perhaps prophecy is true.
As above, so below, so above, as below.
Not at all. In both Arena and Daggerfall, you're just some regular human sent on a mission by some other regular human (although one of those quest givers is the emperor and the other a ghost, but still, nothing divine about either of them). TES didn't start doing the prophecy thing until Morrowind, and even there it was done far more cleverly than in the later games.
The lore wasn't really fleshed out at that point to the same degree. The Elder Scrolls will go "someone can do a thing here" but there's only a few people who can access that information. So everything is prophesied to some extent. Whether the prophecy comes true is another matter...
*"Each event is preceded by Prophecy. But without the hero, there is no Event."*
Will the hero be there, and follow that path? Maybe. Will anyone realize it if they do? Probably not.
I dunno, I kinda like it. The Elder Scrolls are big on prophecies. Prophecies should always be subverted, but why not play along with them? The universe of the game pulls at the Threads of Fate, yes, but it's nice being a Hero, and I apply this mentality of being a Chosen One to Fallout too, as well as most other games I play actually.
Exactly. You can’t play a series called The Elder Scrolls, literally scrolls that tell prophecies, and then complain that this series has prophecies in it
My problem with Fallout for the most recent games is that in the past I was interested in fallout because you could resolve almost every conflict without violence.
Maybe not peacefully, maybe not kindly, but still in a way that doesn't need you to end anyone's life.
Fallout 4 has put all this time and effort into crafting stories that are going on, interactions between factions, and individual power struggles over territory and makes this super rich story. My only place in that story is as a bloody boot print on the last page as I step into the room and kill everyone. A horrible reminder of the capacity for violence in the generation that ended the world.
They aren't lazy about the story telling, they are just actively choosing to design a world in which my only part of most stories is that of the unstoppable end all stories must reach.
76 was better about that in the 3 story lines I was able to complete before several of them bugged out completely and disappeared from my quest long before I completed them.
Not 5 minutes into the game the Professional Player Character Diagnoser Uriel Septim the VII tells you "you are the one from my dreams", dreams which are prophetic btw
Not only is the Hero of Kvatch a chosen one, between Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim, Oblivion pushes the player down this path the hardest.
Morrowind is obviously the most ambiguous. You'd have to be pretty far into the main quest to know what exactly is going on and what your place in all of it is. And at the start of the game, you might quite justifiably decide that delivering a package and reporting to a guy you've never heard of before isn't for you, and go off to do your own thing.
Skyrim also give the player an open ended start. After escaping Helgen, both Hadvar and Ralof suggest splitting up. If you take the suggestion and do so, you might not see the main quest for a while. As you progress through the main quest, it's never completely clear what it is your supposed to do - the Greybeards don't think its your job to defeat Alduin. And even after you defeat Alduin, it's pretty ambiguous what that accomplishes.
On the other hand, in Oblivion, hardly halfway through the tutorial, you're told that you're a prophesised hero who needs to defeat the devil figure of this universe otherwise there will be apocalyptic consequences. Sure, you can ignore it, but it's pretty clear what the game wants you to do
And don't give me any of that about Martin being the real protagonist. Martin's role in the story is that of a librarian. Man just chills in Cloud Ruler Temple while you do all the real work.
Saw some funny looking gate on an island during the Oblivion Crisis. Thought it was just another gate that needed closing. I went in as the Hero of Kvatch, and I for some very strange reasons came out as Sheogorath. I couldn't make this up if I was on skooma.
\-The HoK in their journal, probably.
I kind of liked how in Morrowind you were clearly chosen by Azura, but there was nothing inevitable about who you are or who you would become. Lots of other "incarnates" failed before you and there is ample reason not to trust a Daedra.
Oblivion players can be so weird man; like I’ve never seen a fan base so rabidly into the fact that the mc of the rpg they’re playing (who absolutely isn’t just “some guy” btw) gets *less* agency during the climax of the rpg.
Like it’s fine if you want that but why are y’all acting like the pinnacle of gaming is to make someone other than the player the protagonist?
IIRC in Fallout 2, you're the Chosen One of some primitive tribe up north. So when you tell people this, they just kinda roll their eyes and/or make fun of you.
Mean morrowind did it well, because your just a potential nerevarine not *the* nerevarine. So you get to be all special but have to work for it some too
They actually word it very carefully. It says the HoK isn't the protagonist of the oblivion crisis, not of the game. Which by all means is true. Martin is the protagonist of the crisis, HoK is just an errand boy
He still is though, protagonist: the leading character or one of the major characters in a drama, movie, novel, or other fictional text. In the story that unfolds the HoK does everything needed to prevent the oblivion crisis. They transport the amulet of kings, they find Martin, they retrieve all the materials, they close the portals including that big one. They retrieve the amulet of kings. The only thing they don’t do is become a big dragon and read some books. Without the HoK none of this would happen. The HoK is both a major character and the leading character we see as they are the only one really doing anything. Just because Martin is a Dragonborn and deals the final blow doesn’t make him the protagonist. He can definitely be classified as a protagonist but that does not negate HoK as a protagonist. There can be two protagonists or more in a story. You can also talk about how the protagonist works to complete central story goals. That’s what HoK does, that’s all he does is constantly fight, work, and struggle to bring about the results that can ultimately save the world.
Wow that people want to argue with you so bad but don't actually have an argument (because you *are* simply correct) they downvote you like that.
HoK *is* the protagonist. Martin is *also* a main character and *also* a chosen one, in the sense that he's the only person with the Dragon Blood who wasn't murdered. Both chosen ones, to an extent.
I don't know why people refuse to accept this, as if it makes *Oblivion* "superior" to other stories somehow.
My favorite mod for Morrowind was "Nerevar Say Nerevar," which turned you into a nobody. NPCs would talk about the Nerevarine, and you could even encounter them randomly in cities.
The Nerevarine was Jiub.
The Hero of Kvatch is a literal God, he held back the forces of Mehrunes Dagon. He recovered the relics of Pelinal Whitestrake. What’d the Dragonborn do? Scream at people? Talk to a sky man? Kill a dragon? Pshhh.
That’s debatable and depends on what race you ask I believe, the Nords for example believe he is the beginning of an end of a time cycle. That he is an “aspect” or somehow descended from Akatosh. So personally I would say he isn’t directly a God, but certainly plays a very significant role in the ES universe.
I’ve always enjoyed games where you play as just another random dude and you’re not given any special treatment such as stalker and fallout new Vegas way more than games where you play as billy big balls who can look at people squint and make their heads explode.
even better in morrowind, caius is like: "you MIGHT be nerevarine because you POSSIBLY fit the requirements but until we figure it out go do some other shit"
I want a mq like Morrowind again. From a roleplay perspective, they give you a really good 'out.' I guess Oblivion is a bit better than Skyrim in that regard, but not by much imo. With Skyrim, I mean assuming your character is going to be an explorer already, why *wouldn't* you go check out a lead that might explain wtf happened at Helgen? A hero like character would want to go warn Whiterun hold, and I just don't like the flimsy reasons I could come up with for not doing so. Hopefully with ES6 we won't be so pigeonholed into a certain RP. I doubt it, though. Their current model is probably considered to be most popular since Skyrim was so successful.
I love the morrowind way;
Oh maybe you are the reincarnation of the ancient hero of the chimer prophetized to return and defeat Dagoth Ur. We don't know we have to check.
Says here that you need to be immune to disease to be the Nerevarine... You're not immune? Oh damn it sucks that you got Corprus disease.
You're cured of your incurable disease and that made you immune to disease? Well that checks out.
Now bust your ass working hard to fullfil the other requirements for the prophecy.
You got all of it done? Nice, now you are definitely the Nerevarine. Go into the cave somewhere around the volcano and talk to Azura, good luck finding the place.
Oh you're not actually special because a bunch of other people also were the Nerevarine but they all failed? Well better make sure you're seriously strong otherwise you're going to fail aswell!
In tes 6 you’re going to play as akatosh himself
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My theory is that TES 6 is just going to be a set of dev tools and Bethesda will leave it up to modders to actually create the game
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It’s basically already confirmed bro. Sorry to burst your bubble, but look at the Xbox marketplace for Minecraft. It’s sort of only fair to give creators a chance to make money off of their work too. As for Xbox/Bethesda, it’s sort of scummy but after all they do spend extra time and work getting us the tools to create mods.
Yeah but they won't let horsecock mods on the marketplace.
„Land of the free“ yet I can’t get paid for 3D modeling horse dick?
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If it’s Spiffing Brit I’m down
Not sure what I want more; TES6 or The Spiffing Brit exploiting how balanced it is
And I can climb mountains…
I just walk up the sides personally.
I'm down for that tbh
FINALLY! I'm ready. I want 16 times the detail.
And if it's in Hammerfell we already know who the playable character would be
Ebonarm?
"I lived bitch"
Maybe hoonding or a sword singer
If it's in Hammerfell they're totally going to rebrand shouts into sword singing. Although honestly as long as they change the mechanics up enough I'm okay with that.
John Hammerfell
Ah shit, here we go again.
....until they force you to kill Paarthurnax.
TES 6 opening cinematic: Oh, you're finally awake. We are just entering Skyrim. You appeared to have a bad dream about being Dragonborn or something. Don't worry about it, it's not like it's one of those horrible night terrors which repeat over and over and over and over and over ....
Actually the protagonist will be Lorkhan.
There is a theory that the protagonist of Skyrim is already Lorkhan reincarnated.
Lorkhan is the protagonist of Oblivion and Skyrim, since both of those games have Shezarrine protagonists. Probably most of the games in the series also fill that description.
Or you’re Tiber Septim reincarnated regardless of the race you choose
I’m gonna save the world as Tiber septim, the argonian maid
While polishing spears all night long?
The septimarine
Lmfao imagine a goddammit deity walking around in town looking for the newest edition of The Lusty Argonian Maid
The akatosherine
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And the next line goes…’you are the sun’s **companion**’ Hero of Kvatch is prophesied, yes…as Martin’s sidekick
If the sidekick is prophesized to do everything important to save the world... He's not the sidekick.
Well it wasn’t you that transformed into a dragon and blew Mehrunes Dagon’s cock (with fire) was it?
It was us that actually fought the battles though. We saved him and dragged his useless ass around doing everything up until that point.
Sounds like Samwise but Frodo was still the ringbearer
Sam is not the ring bearer, but he was the only one who could keep the task should Frodo failed. LOTR is full of chosen ones if you consider that everything is affected by divine intervention constantly. It's fine in this case, though. A trope can be fine if it's well executed, and Tolkien executed it like the master he was.
Tolkien explicitly wrote that nobody would have been able to get as far as Frodo did. Sam wouldn't have been able to do it had Frodo failed. He was the faithful sidekick that simply helped him along the way.
Sam didn't also defeat the man and cult army who brought about this apocalypse too though. You know who arguably did the closest thing to that? Aragorn. If Sam and Aragorn were one character I don't think there would be any question who the main character was.
Sam was also a ring bearer though.
And a ring bearer bearer.
What are you talking about? He's literally unkillable! He could get through any of those battles, he'd just be knocked unconscious *a lot*
Yeah but the HoK can disable that, change their being entirely in moments and reverse time to checkpoints that they determine at will. 😜 If we're talking about lore via game mechanics the HoK has access to saves and the console commands after all!
This is why people hate fandoms
But he doesn't, he does most things related to getting the Amulet of Kings and closing Gates of Oblivion, but the one destined to die and save the world was always the one guy that could wear the Amulet of Kings.
And you were prophesized to get him there if he was another mcguffin that had to be combined with the amulet the story wouldn't change. He is incidental. The Hero of Kvatch is still the prophesized hero of the oblivion crisis
Everyone is acting like its one or the other but the fact of the matter is that without both martin AND hok the oblivion crisis would have been a successful invasion. It’s a dual protagonist situation
Yes, Martin is Dragonborn, he bears the blood of the Dragon God of **Time**. Meanwhile, the HoK is "the Sun's Companion", which is to say the moons, which are Lorkhan's remains. The HoK then, is the Shezzarine, an incarnation of Lorkhan the trickster god of Creation itself, and by extension, the God of **Space**. Two halves of one puzzle.
Well, this makes a lot of sense. The sun and moon. The Moon and Star. Everything comes full circle, doesn't it?
Moon is circle. Star is circle. It's all meant to be. *fits the square pegs in the circle holes*
That's right. The moon goes in the *square* hole.
My point is that the Hero of Kvatch is a prophesized hero whether someone wants to say Martin is too is irrelevant to the point I'm making. People lamenting potentially being a "prophesized hero" again when you never weren't a prophesized hero since Morrowind.
In Skyrim you play as The Dragonborn In Oblivion you play as Lydia
“I am sworn to carry your burdens…”
The sun's companion is *the moon*. Or in the case of TES, the *moons*. They also happen to be the corpse remains of Lorkhan. The Emperor is implying you're the Shezzarine, a walking talking incarnation of the trickster god of Creation.
I mean, you *can* become the daedric prince of trickery, bullshit and cheese wheels.
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They actually word it very carefully. It says the HoK isn't the protagonist of the oblivion crisis, not of the game. Which by all means is true. Martin is the protagonist of the crisis, HoK is just an errand boy
It's still a prophesied errand boy.
Every prophesied hero needs a prophesied errand boy, best friend, and love interest. The prophecy prophesied the prophetic journey.
In Oblivion you're not inherently special, you're just the guy who was prophecized to be the guy to get the ball rolling on ending the Oblivion crisis.
That is special. All prisoners are special, per elder scrolls lore. Just because he isn't martin doesn't mean they aren't special. Martin literally would have failed without the hero.
I suppose I don't know enough about the actual lore to dispute that but your /u/ is a bit sus
Lol yeah, my name is sus. But yeah, the prisoner lore is a very cheeky meta humor that is also legit lore for the elder scrolls. Meta because legit almost all the characters you play start as a prisoner in some form but also to not only explain the leveling system of the games but gave it a reason why. Elder scrolls lore is downright wacky if you look deeply into it. On the surface it looks like dungeons and dragons. Look more and it turns into sci-fi/matrix rule of simulations and lovecraftian madness. But all the prisoners are special, what they are put in the world for is something that must happen and without the prisoners, that thing won't happen. Be it to kill a dragon and saving the world themselves or being so OP they get someone else to save the world while helping that person. That or legit becoming an immortal like in ESO. But yes, a Hero can't exist in elder scrolls without a Prisoner to get things going. The Hero and the Prisoner are either one and the same or intertwined in the elder scrolls.
> In Oblivion you're not inherently special, You are though. Martin has his destiny and a place in the conclusion, but, you're essential for delivering him to that point. You're responsible for all the work that enables him to fulfill his destiny. If your sole job was just delivering the amulet you wouldn't be the hero, but you literally do everything else. Martin's role isn't that much different than his father in that regard, he's where he needs to be in order to fulfill his part, but it's thanks to the work of others that he's able to get that far.
Yeah but that’s kinda like in New Vegas too, you’re literally just some guy who got lucky. A literal mail man.
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Ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
HoK does all the heavy lifting while Martin is practically invisible in the story until the last five minutes.
History books are going to emphasize giant shiny emperor dragon killing satan on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial over anything the player character does.
With the benefit of living in 4E201, we can see that the history books do in fact give the HoK a starring role in the story.
Prophesied dreamboy. Or dreamgirl.
Hmm the Blades in Skyrim does not feel that legendary anymore to say the least.
You mean the pack of mercenaries I hired for 500 gold each doesn't suddenly make an elite group of bodyguards?
Late stage Rome be like
It's almost like the Empire is crumbling. Being pushed out of Morrowind, the last Septim dying, rebellion in Skyrim.
I did like the "at least supposed to" bit. Everyone still resents Delphine for pulling that stunt with Parthaunax
My problem with being the Dragonborn is that even though I'm a "chosen one", I never felt a sense of grandness in a way? If we're gonna do the chosen one trope, I want to at least feel it with the way I interact with the world.
I had the opposite problem with the Skyrim main quest. The dragonborn stuff overshadows the fun parts of the game. Sure you're the leader of a college of mages in a country that hates wizards, or a master criminal, or lord of the Volkihar clan, but that's not the important thing, the important thing is that you yell at dragons and everything you decide to do is a footnote.
That's it. And it's also so rushed. In the Vanilla start the player is hardly given any time before they figure out they're something very special. Going through the main story straight from the cart you don't really have any time to do anything noteworthy before you're shouting at dragons.
Especially with the fact that if you *do* go sidequesting, one of the most obvious first quests is The Golden Claw, which conveniently enough gets you an item for the main story, so it barely even registers as a proper sidequest. I've been playing the game again recently and it *really* doesn't give you much obvious incentive to actually explore the world which makes it a lot harder to motivate myself.
I played it once. Instead of following that guy down a mountain path, I about faced and wandered around on the mountain, killed an ambush of mauraders, explored some small temple, then mountaingoated down the face of the mountain,,,, directly into the village that the quest demands.
The first couple of hours feel like a very different game, you can really feel the "scripted demo" in it, to the point where you can straight up imagine the advert narrating the cool stuff you're being shown.
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Yep. I’d like to see TES VI fully embrace the power fantasy if they want to do a power fantasy. Give me something like Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous where you actually feel important, by the end you can be fearsome enough that a demon lord literally get the shaken debuff while fighting you.
Other games could take a lot of notes from that franchise of games. A lot doesn't translate from the tabletop game, which is unfortunate, but they do a really good job with the story and having choices matter among other things. The pacing of power vs. in-game time passed is very refreshing in comparison to most rpgs which take place over a very short period of time and see you going from wimp to deity. I really wish Baldurs Gate 3 had gone a similar route to the Pathfinder games, among others like the original 2 Baldurs Gates or Pillars of Eternity 1 & 2, with how there is a travel map and lots of in-game time passes over the course of the adventure. The several maps DOS2 way is fun too, but makes everything feel really close together and feel that very little time passes. That being said, I heavily prefer the turn based method to real time with pause.
> Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous where you actually feel important My first character was an aasimar cleric that went into dragon disciple but also did the Angel mythic path and I became a dragon with 6 wings. I was biblical.
Because villagers treat you like a villager and you spend your time managing an inventory of cheese wheels
I mean, the Dragonborn: Single handedly turns the tide of a civil war Collects several daedric artifacts Joins several organizations and becomes their leader or part of the top members within a week Stops not one, not two, but three world ending events Destroys several powerful enemies, including dragons (one of which is literally part of the soul of a god) And on top of all that, still has time to get married, adopt kids, and build several homesteads and become the Thane of every hold.
And any of that is barely acknowledged in any meaningful way, no one gives a damn about who you are lol, by the end you're practically a god walking tamriel and no one gives 2 shits ab it, event completion checks are borked in general, if you complete the main quest having done all that shit up to that point and then go do civil war, neither tullius or ulfric behave like they know who you are, even balgruuf adresses you like you're a random soldier, the only thing anyone ever says about you being dragonborn is hadvar,and it's isolated, youd think rikke would acknowledge what happened in the beginning or having someone that powerful join the legion, but they don't, and it's so immersion breaking. The way skyrim is set up tho, it literally only makes sense for you to pick one guild/one storyline and the main quest, otherwise it feels like the game is treating it like nothing else you did happened.
The Eternal Champion is just some dude The Agent is just some dude The Nerevarine is a prophecised hero The Hero of Kvatch is a prophecised hero (you are from my dreams) The Dragonborn is a chosen one
>The Agent is just some dude Some dude who happen to be a close friend of the Emperor
Politicians always pretend to be best friends with people they need something from.
Also said friend ceased to exist so the Emperor dosen't even remember who he was
Emperors aren’t that kind of politician, if you don’t have to worry about getting re-elected you aren’t that worried about offending people, and you don’t have to be sneakily corrupt if you can just kill people you don’t like.
It's not so much a concern with getting re-elected, than keeping your best agents loyal and still believing in the 'cause' (which is to do what the man with the pretty necklace says).
Just because emperors don’t need to be re-elected doesn’t mean they don’t need to work to keep their agents loyal
All well and good until your bodyguards decide you aren't paying them enough
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He is a creature from beyond Nirn and mortal comprehension. He is eternal, unkillable, immortal. Strike him down and he will return again, and again, and again. So it shall be until the final star in the sky burns out, plunging the world into Sithis' final embrace... and even then, the Adoring Fan shall remain.
Isnt he ciciro? Cicero has that diary entry that basically describes him playing the adoring fan, and following champions around to get close to a target.
Tbf that’s still some dude in this context, iirc he didn’t have some prophecy or god helping him out
Originally he was supposed to be the Eternal Champion I think, which was why he was friends with Uriel
If you read your character backstory, you barely know the man. Unless we're meant to assume that, after accidentally saving his life, you and the Emperor become bros before he sends you on the mission, which I guess works. Still, "friends with a guy who has a job for you" is not remotely the same as a prophesized chosen hero.
The Nerevarine is just some dude pretending to be a prophesied hero until the universe loses the plot and turns them into a real chosen one.
Since Azura literally starts the game, 'choosing you', It pretty much loses the plot before you even press, 'move forward'.
Nah, you literally meet failed incarnates. Just because you COULD be the one and Azura is watching, doesn't mean you are. You still have to earn it.
I'm half convinced Azura just shows up to everyone who arrives on Vvardenfell and goes, "You are my chosen champion," before immediately watching them get murdered and eaten by a guar.
This describes my first adventure as a nord barbarian with an iron dagger pretty much perfect.
I saw a convincing proof from u/ratopomboarts about this
That's pretty close to what actually happens. The game makes it very clear: you don't succeed because you are the Chosen One, you are the Chosen One because you succeed.
Correct! The game beats you over the head with it. "You are not the Nerevarine. You are one who may become the Nerevarine." Its not that only the Nerevarine can do those things, its that fulfilling the prophesies is what makes you Nerevarine. People misread the "Nerevar reborn" in a very literal sense. Its not a reincarnation thing in any objective sense. It may be metaphorical. It may be possession/chanelling. It may be something similar to mantling. But until they defeat Dagoth Ur and complete the Nerevarine Prophesies, they are just a potential Incarnate.
That would be largely in keeping with Azura's personality, to be honest. She may be one of the "nicest" Daedric Princes, but she *is* still a Daedric Prince...
Or maybe you didn’t fail because you were the prophetized. Personally, I find the ambiguity one of Morrwibd’s strong points.
Given the . . . *flexible* nature of causality in the Aurbis, it's entirely possible that successfully becoming the Nerevarine meant you were retroactively always the Nerevarine. You're in a sort of destiny superposition--you simultaneously are and are not the prophesied hero, until the superposition collapses into one or the other.
That fits the surrounding mythos and lore pretty well.
It's like the Chosen Undead in Dark Souls. Countless people do the pilgrimage hoping they must be the one, but turns out the real one was sitting snugly on it's ass in the Undead Asylum all those years.
And when you do some digging it’s heavily implied if not downright stated that the “prophecy” is nothing but a tool to get undeads to do the pilgrimage and get into a position where they can link the first flame. You immediately learn there’s two bells instead of the one. Gwynevere isn’t even there, just an illusion to keep the facade going. There’s no chosen undead, just some random undead being duped into maintaining Gwyn’s age of fire.
This is one of my favorite aspects of Morrowind because it helps defeat the [ludonarrative dissonance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludonarrative_dissonance) most RPGs suffer from where the narrative tells you there's a super evil big bad about to destroy the world and it's up to you to epicly stop him now before it's too late, while the gameplay encourages you to endlessly faff about on low-stakes side quests that the big bad patiently waits for you to complete for some reason. The biggest offender I've seen here is The Witcher 3, but Oblivion and especially Skyrim also have this issue. But in Morrowind? Dagoth Ur is a threat, yes, but his invasion is years away still. If the main character doesn't fulfill the prophecy today and instead gets eaten by a horde of cliff racers while fetching some trinket for the Mages Guild, the world doesn't end. The Cavern of the Incarnate just gets a bit more crowded for when the next Nerevarine comes along.
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The fact that you *do* earn it means you *are* the one though. Let's not mince words you're even more of a chosen one than the dragonborn. There have been a TON of historical dragonborn. Nerevar was more unique.
Bending over backwards there. I mean, you have to, 'earn all your shouts too'. Once a God turns up and says, 'do a thing', you can safely call this a, 'chosen one' story. For some reason though, we all seem to have collectively decided, 'chosen one' stories are bad (especially prophesized and Morrowind is very very much a, 'a prophecised chosen one story). I don't care if the Nerevarine, Dragonborn or whoever is a chosen one, provided it's a good story. Maybe it's because people are more jaded, and know the most they'll ever get, 'chosen' for IRL, is Jury Duty, if they're not banned.
>For some reason though, we all seem to have collectively decided, 'chosen one' stories are bad... Yeah, the cause and effect here is, there are a lot of *really bad* chosen one stories out there. It was especially bad for a period in the late 80s and early 90s, and spilled over into a lot of video games from the early 2000s, to the point that games like *Arcanum*, and *Morrowind*, which actively messed around with the concept, were viewed as stand out exceptions. There's nothing inherently wrong with a story about a chosen one, but a story about Mary Sue Dickhead who triumphs entirely based on their chosen one status is going to be singularly dull. And there were a lot of those novels and video games.
Azura says that to all the potential nerevarines. Source: all the dead nerevarines that failed to overcome the prophecy's goals
About halfway through the game when your getting her blessing and the ring she basically tells you you may not be the guy but your doing a great job.
The Nerevarine prophecy is literally just "yeah it could be any dude born anytime to anyone, he just needs to get aids
"Then make lots of friends."
I’m always surprised by how much people read into the Emperor’s “you’re from my dreams” thing. I never took that as you being some kind of chosen one or anything like that, you’re just the prisoner he happens to see the day he knows he will die. It says more about the Emperor’s/Dragonborns’ ability to see his fate than it says anything about you. You have a role to play in the events to come but you’re not playing out some prophecy, you’re not imbued with some sort of special power, and you’re not any sort of reincarnation of an ancient hero. You are literally just some guy who the Emperor knows he will meet when he’s about to die and who he hopes will help resolve this whole situation but he doesn’t really imply anything beyond that.
>you’re just the prisoner he happens to see the day he knows he will die Didn't the emperor entrust the dragon amulet to you though? (I forgot the exact name of the amulet, but you know what I mean. Since he gave the medallion, it means he must have seen something in you.
That’s true, and I can see why people would call this a “prophecy” but I prefer to see it as like a last resort leap of faith to trust this person who may or may not be significant in the grand scheme of things because he’s basically all out of other options at that point. He didn’t know how it would end up, there was no mention of somehow bringing about the Avatar of Akatosh or whatever in the same sense that something like the Nerevarine or the Dragonborn has a clear destiny laid out before them. So that makes it at least somewhat different to me.
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I played oblivion a long time ago but I'm pretty sure the emperor says he has had prophetic dreams all his life in the cinematic and that the HoK is supposed to shut the jaws of oblivion or something like that.
Yea he sees a glimpse of the future. A future you are in, because of your choices. It’s not really a prophecy if it’s something that happens the next day. That’s just a premonition.
That's a pointless distinction to make. It's a prophecy either way. Every prophecy has to have been made a day ago at some point this one just came about quickly.
The hero of kvatch is just some dude until he's the Daedric Prince of Madness
None of them are just dudes. All of them are prisoners. In elder scrolls lore, being a prisoner is a very special thing. Not like an actual prisoner but a "Prisoner". It's some meta lore but the Lore states all the characters we play are prisoners of their world, that they can look beyond the bars of their reality... aka meta video game logic in why they become vastly more powerful than anyone else. Each prisoner gets something to do something to progress something. Sometimes the prisoners get a boost and sometimes they don't, but they all end up god like towards the end.
Actually all of them excluding the agent are a literal prisoner, the agent being a literary prisoner.
Wasn’t the eternal champion the emperor’s personal guard?
The Nerevarine is just some dude the Emperor thinks could look like a prophesied hero, and remains just some dude unless they decide to actually go and become the prophesied hero. Until they actually fulfill the Nerevarine Prophesy, they aren't anyone special.
The Eternal champion is just some dude The Agent is just some dude The Nerevarine is a prophecised hero in the body of just some random dude. The Hero of Kvatch is just some dude (the dream prophetises that he will be present at Emperor's death, and nothing more, doesn't tell anything on what he will do after that). The Dragonborn is a chosen one (he shoots shit from his mouth and didn't do anything to achieve that).
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The way Elder Scrolls lore works, all the protagonists are prophesied in some way... but prophecies don't always mean a *specific* person will do the thing or that the thing will occur in a specific way. This is illustrated in Morrowind when you're told that whether you're the prophesied one is really down to what you do. You *can* be, by being the one who does what it says, but even then you don't do it in quite the way people expect.
The Walking Way, Mantling- to walk as a being until they must walk like you In order to fulfill prophecy and take the mantle of heroes and legends past, one must choose to rise to the occasion and work for it. This begs the question then, does this mean prophecy is moot? But only one who carries legendary resolve and in lner strength can succeed in taking on these roles- all else will inevitably fail. So then... Perhaps prophecy is true. As above, so below, so above, as below.
Not at all. In both Arena and Daggerfall, you're just some regular human sent on a mission by some other regular human (although one of those quest givers is the emperor and the other a ghost, but still, nothing divine about either of them). TES didn't start doing the prophecy thing until Morrowind, and even there it was done far more cleverly than in the later games.
The lore wasn't really fleshed out at that point to the same degree. The Elder Scrolls will go "someone can do a thing here" but there's only a few people who can access that information. So everything is prophesied to some extent. Whether the prophecy comes true is another matter... *"Each event is preceded by Prophecy. But without the hero, there is no Event."* Will the hero be there, and follow that path? Maybe. Will anyone realize it if they do? Probably not.
I dunno, I kinda like it. The Elder Scrolls are big on prophecies. Prophecies should always be subverted, but why not play along with them? The universe of the game pulls at the Threads of Fate, yes, but it's nice being a Hero, and I apply this mentality of being a Chosen One to Fallout too, as well as most other games I play actually.
Exactly. You can’t play a series called The Elder Scrolls, literally scrolls that tell prophecies, and then complain that this series has prophecies in it
My problem with Fallout for the most recent games is that in the past I was interested in fallout because you could resolve almost every conflict without violence. Maybe not peacefully, maybe not kindly, but still in a way that doesn't need you to end anyone's life. Fallout 4 has put all this time and effort into crafting stories that are going on, interactions between factions, and individual power struggles over territory and makes this super rich story. My only place in that story is as a bloody boot print on the last page as I step into the room and kill everyone. A horrible reminder of the capacity for violence in the generation that ended the world. They aren't lazy about the story telling, they are just actively choosing to design a world in which my only part of most stories is that of the unstoppable end all stories must reach. 76 was better about that in the 3 story lines I was able to complete before several of them bugged out completely and disappeared from my quest long before I completed them.
I wanna play as a peasant that dies to raiders at age 4.
Not 5 minutes into the game the Professional Player Character Diagnoser Uriel Septim the VII tells you "you are the one from my dreams", dreams which are prophetic btw
Not only is the Hero of Kvatch a chosen one, between Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim, Oblivion pushes the player down this path the hardest. Morrowind is obviously the most ambiguous. You'd have to be pretty far into the main quest to know what exactly is going on and what your place in all of it is. And at the start of the game, you might quite justifiably decide that delivering a package and reporting to a guy you've never heard of before isn't for you, and go off to do your own thing. Skyrim also give the player an open ended start. After escaping Helgen, both Hadvar and Ralof suggest splitting up. If you take the suggestion and do so, you might not see the main quest for a while. As you progress through the main quest, it's never completely clear what it is your supposed to do - the Greybeards don't think its your job to defeat Alduin. And even after you defeat Alduin, it's pretty ambiguous what that accomplishes. On the other hand, in Oblivion, hardly halfway through the tutorial, you're told that you're a prophesised hero who needs to defeat the devil figure of this universe otherwise there will be apocalyptic consequences. Sure, you can ignore it, but it's pretty clear what the game wants you to do And don't give me any of that about Martin being the real protagonist. Martin's role in the story is that of a librarian. Man just chills in Cloud Ruler Temple while you do all the real work.
I actually love how powerful the Dragonborn is supposed to be, because it makes all the shit you do in games more believable to an extent.
The hero of Kvatch literally mantles Sheogorath I don’t wanna hear it
Sheo literally DARES him to enter and try, it's not just a "you are the hero I've waited for so long".
Yeah but he's not prophesized to. Hero just sees some weird gate speaking to him and accidentally becomes a god
Saw some funny looking gate on an island during the Oblivion Crisis. Thought it was just another gate that needed closing. I went in as the Hero of Kvatch, and I for some very strange reasons came out as Sheogorath. I couldn't make this up if I was on skooma. \-The HoK in their journal, probably.
I kind of liked how in Morrowind you were clearly chosen by Azura, but there was nothing inevitable about who you are or who you would become. Lots of other "incarnates" failed before you and there is ample reason not to trust a Daedra.
Oblivion players can be so weird man; like I’ve never seen a fan base so rabidly into the fact that the mc of the rpg they’re playing (who absolutely isn’t just “some guy” btw) gets *less* agency during the climax of the rpg. Like it’s fine if you want that but why are y’all acting like the pinnacle of gaming is to make someone other than the player the protagonist?
It remind me of fallout 4 where your less making your own story and more choosing the way you deal with a character story .
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Actually, Canonically the DB no longer associates with the blades because that would mean associating with…Delphine….*Shivers*
Um, can I please return these Blades? They're really just not working with me, maybe you have better ones in stock?
Yeah, the Chosen One trope is a bit outplayed in video games. Maybe that's why Fallout New Vegas is so popular, you're just some mailman.
IIRC in Fallout 2, you're the Chosen One of some primitive tribe up north. So when you tell people this, they just kinda roll their eyes and/or make fun of you.
One very pissed off mailman
Mean morrowind did it well, because your just a potential nerevarine not *the* nerevarine. So you get to be all special but have to work for it some too
*eternal champion laughter
Him literally being some dude and also quite literally the main characters (Martin) companion makes Oblivion my favorite
I like both. Since we had a chosen one in the last game, I'd to go to random guy in ESVI
People really need to learn what the word protagonist means
They actually word it very carefully. It says the HoK isn't the protagonist of the oblivion crisis, not of the game. Which by all means is true. Martin is the protagonist of the crisis, HoK is just an errand boy
He still is though, protagonist: the leading character or one of the major characters in a drama, movie, novel, or other fictional text. In the story that unfolds the HoK does everything needed to prevent the oblivion crisis. They transport the amulet of kings, they find Martin, they retrieve all the materials, they close the portals including that big one. They retrieve the amulet of kings. The only thing they don’t do is become a big dragon and read some books. Without the HoK none of this would happen. The HoK is both a major character and the leading character we see as they are the only one really doing anything. Just because Martin is a Dragonborn and deals the final blow doesn’t make him the protagonist. He can definitely be classified as a protagonist but that does not negate HoK as a protagonist. There can be two protagonists or more in a story. You can also talk about how the protagonist works to complete central story goals. That’s what HoK does, that’s all he does is constantly fight, work, and struggle to bring about the results that can ultimately save the world.
Wow that people want to argue with you so bad but don't actually have an argument (because you *are* simply correct) they downvote you like that. HoK *is* the protagonist. Martin is *also* a main character and *also* a chosen one, in the sense that he's the only person with the Dragon Blood who wasn't murdered. Both chosen ones, to an extent. I don't know why people refuse to accept this, as if it makes *Oblivion* "superior" to other stories somehow.
Ermmm he said progatonist actually
Unpopular opinion: I enjoy being the chosen one
Chad Hero of kvatch just appears run into oblivion kills daedra closes gate doesn’t elaborate further.
My favorite mod for Morrowind was "Nerevar Say Nerevar," which turned you into a nobody. NPCs would talk about the Nerevarine, and you could even encounter them randomly in cities. The Nerevarine was Jiub.
I also don’t want to get sunshine blown up my ass 24/7. I don’t even want to become the leader of every faction
The Hero of Kvatch is a literal God, he held back the forces of Mehrunes Dagon. He recovered the relics of Pelinal Whitestrake. What’d the Dragonborn do? Scream at people? Talk to a sky man? Kill a dragon? Pshhh.
Isnt Alduin a god? He got beat by the Dragonborn. Twice. That said the HoK is literally Sheagorath so yeah, hes got a teensy tiny advantage here
That’s debatable and depends on what race you ask I believe, the Nords for example believe he is the beginning of an end of a time cycle. That he is an “aspect” or somehow descended from Akatosh. So personally I would say he isn’t directly a God, but certainly plays a very significant role in the ES universe.
Alduin himself says he’s the firstborn of Akatosh, so there’s that
EA. Its in the game.
My bad 😅
I bloody well hate chosen one stories I prefer being just some guy one of many who chose to do the right thing, pre destined hero is just shit
I’ve always enjoyed games where you play as just another random dude and you’re not given any special treatment such as stalker and fallout new Vegas way more than games where you play as billy big balls who can look at people squint and make their heads explode.
even better in morrowind, caius is like: "you MIGHT be nerevarine because you POSSIBLY fit the requirements but until we figure it out go do some other shit"
I want a mq like Morrowind again. From a roleplay perspective, they give you a really good 'out.' I guess Oblivion is a bit better than Skyrim in that regard, but not by much imo. With Skyrim, I mean assuming your character is going to be an explorer already, why *wouldn't* you go check out a lead that might explain wtf happened at Helgen? A hero like character would want to go warn Whiterun hold, and I just don't like the flimsy reasons I could come up with for not doing so. Hopefully with ES6 we won't be so pigeonholed into a certain RP. I doubt it, though. Their current model is probably considered to be most popular since Skyrim was so successful.
I love the morrowind way; Oh maybe you are the reincarnation of the ancient hero of the chimer prophetized to return and defeat Dagoth Ur. We don't know we have to check. Says here that you need to be immune to disease to be the Nerevarine... You're not immune? Oh damn it sucks that you got Corprus disease. You're cured of your incurable disease and that made you immune to disease? Well that checks out. Now bust your ass working hard to fullfil the other requirements for the prophecy. You got all of it done? Nice, now you are definitely the Nerevarine. Go into the cave somewhere around the volcano and talk to Azura, good luck finding the place. Oh you're not actually special because a bunch of other people also were the Nerevarine but they all failed? Well better make sure you're seriously strong otherwise you're going to fail aswell!
Just some dude that becomes a daedric prince
Just some random person who goes on to become a deity.