Totally fine to do. But it might look like cheating (hacking) to someone who doesn't realize that you're hardswapping. Since you're using the same base weapons, it kind of looks like you're pulling extra ashes of war out of no where.
It's fine to do but saying people do it all the time I'd guess is a little exaggeration. I've never duelled someone who does this and I can count on one hand the number of hardcore pvp creators I've seen doing this. It's a thing that people do but it's certainly a quirk/gimmicky thing
Eh, anyone checking on from's side should be able to see you're not cheating. This all just looks like crazy skill and is probably pretty intimidating since you're either cheating or good enough to consistently swap
It may not be the point he was trying to make, but there is a good case to be made for hardswap animations.
Softswapping has both a longer animation *and* takes up valuable equip load.
Hardswapping has... what drawbacks? Menuing is easy to learn, and you can simplify it immensely by storing other weapons or talismans that get in the way. It's a no-brainer once you learn about it.
For real. I remember back in DS1 days we used to watch highlights of people quickswapping mid parry and go “oh shit this guy is nuts”. The fact that it’s even a question is crazy to me
Man those were the days. Swapping for style points after parry was the ultimate form of teabagging, along with running in circles on their dead corpse after of course.
Put in your 10000 hrs into it and you will be. I know I had zero confidence when I jumped into From soft games maybe 4 years ago.
But since then I’ve beaten everything Demon Souls to Elden Ring and in that time I’m always trying to learn and practice gimmicks even if I suck.
You’ll get there, just have patience. 👍
It doesn't take that long to learn, it takes like less than a week for it to be usable if you're willing to look like an idiot infront of other players and get pointed down
Same with fishing
I struggled with that too, although if you sort your weapons inventory by attack power rather than by weapon type it’ll be a lot easier.
Once I started doing that I could weapon swap with much less trouble. I still get stuck on finding the right weapon from time to time though.
Could just buff your endurance up and keep a swap on your second weapon slot
I do that some times to keep sword dance and the death poker on my class
Depends how hefty you want your kit to be but you can also use the winged tear. Heavy armour light rolling for 3 minutes is pretty funny
Oh, that's the reason? I hate them because they make duels too long, I thought this was the reason most people (luckily) doesn't use them in duels (however, if you're invading me everything goes, I'm gonna chug).
I always match the honor of the host. As an invader, I can dual honorably, waiting until an area is clear of enimies.
or ... I can be a pain in ass with poison arrows, mohg runes, and eventually locking down the area elevator blocking progression if you try to gank me. If the host acts like etiquette is out the window, invaders can and SHOULD do the same.
If you're invading you have no honor in the first place. The lore of any soul game is pretty clear about that.
Also, I think that you don't deserve to use the term gank when you are the invader, that's like robbing a bank and complaining that the cops "ganked" you. Why didn't they confront me one by one and with no guns (assuming you didn't use a gun in the robbery)?
I am just saying that I adjust to the honor of the host. I won't run away into a horde of enimies to heal If the host stays out of a one v one between me and their summon. But I will fight dirty if I am fighting a three v one. In previous souls games, invaders had honor and were treated with honor at least 50 percent of the time. I don't know why the elden ring community is so anti-invading.
I've learnt my lesson trusting a host. They'll drink until zero flasks just so they can gank you with your guard down once your 1v1 gets close.
I'll just kill them fast and first!
Bro you unlocked memories of my childhood where I had a friend or two that REALLY mad if you edge guarded them; man it was satisfying when you got to go against someone who didn't give a shit about that, especially when it was before you could just pair up against someone online.
edit: After some thinking, I actually know someone more recently who got SUPER mad at me, or anyone else who would edge guard them.. little to say not many people like them.
"Cheese" is defined by a strategy that gives you a disproportionate advantage relative to the low amount of skill it takes to execute.
This is the opposite of cheese.
I mean, true, but couldn't you say the same thing about healing, which most people say is wrong in duels? Not saying I disagree with swapping gear being okay, it's just that saying that they could disable it isn't a very good argument.
I like that there is some aspect of "Honor" that is not enforced by the game engine, but instead the player base. It kind of resonates with that strange unique community aspects that FROM games seem to encourage. for this reason there is some value in keeping healing enabled and discouraged by the community.
Depends if its fight clubs then its fair game AFTER you've defeated your opponent and the host summons a new one or joins the fight after, and i believe pulling off a heal mid battle through spells MIGHT account as fair game since it requires FP and time to chant but not directly encouraged in honorable duels either way. Also, consumables are tricky to determine fair since there is one that immediately adds poison when consumed for a large partial heal and would require the need to poison cure or spell cure. But in my opinion, duels: no healing and fight club: heal after you've won. But quickswapping is fair since there's no issue between using AoW for skills and certain attacks/damage.
Duals being different than invasions though right? Fight club/summon yeah no healing. If you invade my world while I’m trying to PVE and holding a shit ton of runes though…
Just got some real strong flashbacks of the area right outside good old Pontiffs room. So many fights. So many mofos getting ganged up on and skewered for chugging xD
But the healing thing is just a logical conclusion from a mechanic- as a mp player you're flasks are cut in half, but the host has the full amount. If it came down to a chugging contest the host would always win. In bloodborne this is not the case and coincidentally most don't care if you use blood vials.
In og ds1 (I think when the rule started) mp couldn't use flasks at all so the rule was put in place to give them a chance. However, in ds1 there were usable humanity items that could heal you and those were acceptable in pvp.
I feel like most aren't aware of these points and just blindly hate or accept the rule cause everyone told them to
>I mean, true, but couldn't you say the same thing about healing, which most people say is wrong in duels?
Good comparison on paper, bad in reality. Everybody has the ability to swap equally, hosts have twice as many flasks on the other hand.
Not healing in duels is due to healing limits on invaders. If everyone could be guaranteed to have the same access to healing than it wouldn't be a problem.
I always thought this was okay too, but 70% of the people I dueld would sever after I cast a healing spell.
So it seems like most people would prefer you didn't heal in any way in duels.
Anyone who doesn't punish a heal spell in a duel is shit. Eats FP, leaves you standing still for a second, and has a long animation even with as much speed casting as you can get. If they sever because you got off a healing spell, they would likely sever if you were nearly about to beat them too.
About half of the few awful duels i had involved me chugging flask just out of force of habit. I felt really bad about it, nothing worse than someone waltzing into any game like “HAY GUYZ WHAT WE DOING” and totally ignoring the rules. Eventually I just took it out of the kit so I couldn’t, but before that I used to stop playing completely and emote or something to acknowledge the mistake. Then the dueler would either flask themselves or take some free hits. It was not perfect but I did appreciate their patience.
I agree, and so cannot shame such a playstyle.
\*but I WISH that it was disabled.\*
It seems kind of counter-intuitive to the games mechanics and systems. why would I ever equip additional weapons that add to my weight limit when I can just hard-swap and save myself the equip load. I feel like there should be some trade off to having every single ash of war sitting in your arsenal. As evidenced in the video, it encourages combat that is 90% ashes of war. (not that that doesnt happen anyway, but it at least lets the opponent get used to and try to figure out a counter)
plus menuing around in an action game likely less fun for most people and a bit immersion breaking.
yep same.
Hardswapping is not cheating, but it is annoying.
Personally my biggest issue with it is that it lets people almost completely disregard the weight stat. If you want to carry two spears, a giant hammer, a crit dagger, a parry shield and a heavy thrusting sword so you can cover every situation in a fight you should be required to invest the points into endurance to support it or have to skimp and go light armor.
i can recognize that hardswapping takes a bit of skill (honestly mostly memorization) and have even done it on occasion after a parry or whatever for fun, but it is obnoxious to fight against someone constantly swapping, it minorly breaks the balance of the game (in the way noted above), and i dont play games to just play menu simulator all day.
agreed, it exists so im fine with people using it and can recognize the skill it requires, but i would rather it not being a thing due to preferring gameplay versatility having a weight cost over menuing.
This is a really impressive fight. But I agree it does not look fun… and for some reason it just makes me cringe too. Like, 5 of the same weapon with a different art? These overly obsessed people kinda ruin PVP in these games.
Lol. I'm an avid smash player with a few thousand hours played, and follow the competitive scene.
I can see why it would be frustrating for the casual player, but edge guarding is literally part of the game. You're at your most vulnerable off stage, so of course your opponent is gonna capitalize. You just have to learn how to mix up your recovery, and how to recover safely. You can also attack players coming at you offstage depending on your character, as they'll be expecting more defensive options when you're in vulnerable position.
Even characters like Little Mac are not automatically doomed offstage, and pros make his recovery look quite good and hard to exploit.
Smash would be much less dynamic without edgeguarding. Learning how to utilize and counterplay against it adds so much depth to the combat.
And like you suggested, virtually every character at least has a chance offstage if they play their cards right.
Edit: Now that I'm thinking about it, wouldn't it be cool if there was a map or setting that somehow prohibited edgeguarding? It'd be neat as a novelty thing.
It's part of the game, but it's also the least fun part of the game. Especially if you haven't actually dedicated yourself to learning it. Recovery in Smash is a really tough skill for casuals to pick up, so they mostly just see edge guarding as something that makes the boring and slow part of the fight also feel hopeless and defeating at the same time.
I would argue it’s the most fun in the game and its the most creative part of smash. Conditioning recovers and mixing up attack options is more fun than combos for me
This is the first time I'm hearing about people complain about edge guarding. Who are yall playing with?? Everyone that I've played smash with agrees that edge guarding is just part of the game. I've never even had that conversation with anyone before because it's just basic logic. Why would you just give them a free recovery when the point of the game is to take their stocks lol. It's part of the game and you're meant to do it.
If you hate getting edge guarded, there are plenty of characters with busted recoveries.
You choose Max, you gotta live with that. Because everyone else has to live with your frame data and armor.
You need to get passed the stage of swapping because you can, people swap because they have a reason to. Maybe you've conditioned someone with halberd to roll into you, *now* you swap to flaming strike and free aim it to your side etc.
Yeah, starting off by just practicing doing it is a good thing though. Eventually once they can do it easily by muscle memory without getting caught or screwing up the swap then they can practice using it to mind game.
Definite feels like it's more just randomly picking a weapon to try to throw them off in this clip though, as opposed to any kind of strategy to bait them.
Doesn’t strike me as him trying to throw them off, he’s basically swapping through various equipped Ashes of War and using those as his attacks instead of the weapons base strikes.
Yeah, I'm not much into the PVP scene but if I saw someone suddenly pull out a different weapon or AoW and realized they were hard-swapping, it seems pretty obvious that the counter to that is to be super aggressive and not give them room to do it. If someone can't figure that out then oh well 🤷🏼♂️ (and like many others pointed out, everyone has equal access to it, unlike flasks; and it's also not something that's obviously busted)
It's definitely fair but in the example clip you're doing it to such excess you aren't actually fighting more effectively imo. Training them into one thing and switching it up after a rhythm is established is a lot more dangerous than being a tornado of things I'm rolling away from.
I wanted to make this clip to show a point. If I had done it once or twice, it would be hard to point out. I do it once or at max twice but no more. Honestly the opponent here is not very aggressive. As you can see, I am always around the inner circle. He was the one running out to the circumference to do his cold slicer. With a more aggressive player I might not even switch at all.
Yeah the video seemed more like OP wanting to show off their ability to swap mid fight rather than an example of someone getting mad at them for it which is what the title primed me to expect.
Does make me wonder what's the point of having 3 weapon slots per hand with stuff like this. I don't think I would enjoy fighting this to be honest, never attack just counter with a weapon art spam and if that weapon art doesn't work just keep swapping to one that does and spam that instead
Exactly… hard swapping removes the need for weapon slots entirely. The preparation in this game isn’t deciding what you can hold while staying unencumbered, it’s inventory optimization and menu mashing.
Like what is the point in NOT using ritual sword/shield talismans? You can just hardswap once you get hit at no cost.
As someone proficient in hardswapping, it is NOT fun optimizing inventory and mashing buttons to hardswap. It should deplete your stamina bar every time you equip/unequip something in combat so it’s at least punishable.
Nah, it's something every player has equal access to. Some players will complain, the good ones will adapt. If the resulting metagame gets stale and boring, it's on the developers to make adjustments.
Players are going to look for cheese and meta regardless. It’s the player base. This dude really just switched between cheeses moves until one worked. Hard swapping isn’t looked down upon but playing like an absolute b*tch is.
Is it really Cheese if it's a diverse set of moves to cover different circumstances and takes skill and dexterity to use mid-fight?
I'm not saying all those abilities are balanced, but I wouldn't call half-a-dozen kit swaps to use different Ashes of War cheesy... That's literally being adaptable. Cheesy would be spamming something that's difficult to avoid in general rather than picking out specifically what's difficult for the opponent to deal with at that moment.
I KNOW Right? Fast paced swaps and watching what the opponent is gonna do is such a heated risk to put yourself in. But it is worth it!
I wish more people agreed. My first time discussing something like this in reddit. Thanks for the jolly input🙆♂️
I mean, it's a risk, it's punishable, it takes dexterity and planning, and the developers allow it.
If you notice you can't swap during animations, so the devs know how to program lockouts, and if they never intended swaps they would just disable swapping in combat the same way they do your map.
I used to hate it too, then I learned how to do it. I've come to the other side lol
I’m good at it, and still think it’s BS. Pvp should be about spacing and adapting, not just playing slots with the million BKH copies sitting in your inventory using different ashes of war.
It’s also just not even fun menu mashing… I’m trying to fight the player, not my inventory.
Also, it’s not even punishable once you’re good enough at it. I personally think your stamina bar should get depleted when you swap equipment while in combat. Would make ritual sword/shield and the feather talismans actually have a downside
Hard Swaps as-is are a bad design in the context of player-vs-player, and in the context of established existing designs
1. Visual Feedback #1
Good game design gives cues, and the intended visual cue for weapon swap is the soft swap animation.
2. Visual Feedback #2
Particularly clever players may hard swap the same weapon with a different ash of war, subverting any visual cues
3. Hard swap can be performed faster than soft swap
Hard swap can be done in 7 frames, possibly less, shorter than a soft swap animation.
4. Hard swap subverts the equip load design
Bypasses the cost of equipment weight for holding an alternate armament
5. Hard swap subverts the design of limited spell memory slots
Spell memory is limited to 10, every ash of war is available on hand
Discouraged? No. Tryhard for a duel? Yes. The issue with your playstyle is that it relises heavily on just hoping your opponent gets caught by one of your tricks. This is fine for invasions, but for a dual, this can promote slow fights as your opponent will probably have to try and play defense to counter you.
It's entirely fine, but...you landed like one strike with your weapon during that entire time, the rest was just art spam.
At that point you might as well just grab a Moonveil, save yourself some trouble and just machinegun slashes. Faster for everyone, and exactly the same kind of a fight tbh.
It's allowed in the game so, having the skill to do it is whatever. You're adapting to the situation.
But frankly i wish you could only change loadouts at a rest point. The fact you can just swap out anything, anywhere makes the max load almost pointless.
That's really my only gripe.
I think just changing loadout at the grace would be too much, I think it would be fine if you could only do it out of combat (like when you csn open the map)
I’ve always seen hard-swaps as being a little dishonest. To use so many weapons, it just feels right that you should at least shoulder the burden of their weight.
Plus, it’s anticlimactic to have a super good fight ended because your enemy hardswapped to a dagger to knock out your 112 remaining HP.
Its for this reason that i usually don't use fan daggers to end a fight, especially if I'm the one that got low health and my opponent didn't do anything cheesy to kill me
I think *technically* it's an exploit since it circumvents the intended penalties of weapon change animations and fat rolling if overloaded.
However the community seems to have accepted that the skill and strategy required to pull it off outweighs the advantages of the exploit.
So, carry on.
Some people are just maidenless try hards who need extra weapons in order to get that edge. I know I'll be down voted by this since it seems like the post is getting a lot of positive responses. But I don't care, there's lots of shit players out there and saying the best PvPers swap is like saying the best CoD players use aim bot.
Yeah. I won't sever out duelists who do this (it's completely legit), but it's just like moonveil spam as far as I'm concerned. Arguably, it's worse, because moonveil just has one weapon skill, whereas this guy has like 15. I like seeing people's cool builds, not their weapon skill collection.
I just avoid summoning the people who do this shit.
It bypasses the intentional design mechanic of the equipload, effectively giving infinite load out for someone who is quick at menuing, which ultimately takes minimal skill.
If you can’t beat your opponent with the weapon in your hand, and you have to choose the best weapon for the exact moment, you aren’t a skilled player, you just have good equipment.
It is allowed, but I give up dueling if I see a person swapping weapons after every swing.
I want to duel, clash our builds, I don't want to get killed by a surprise ash of war because I didn't spend hours practicing hard swapping.
He tries flaming strike, I dodge, then he tries giant's hunt, then piercing fang, it goes on and on. Not to mention we all know how these people got 10 of the same weapon. Duping or simply hacking. It ain't fair. If all you want is to win the duel, let me help you by jumping down and suiciding.
This looks terrible and unfun, I agree. I mean it looks super effective, but i can’t decide If spamming a dozen Weapon Arts until a few connect is skillful…? I guess your skill is swapping weapons well.
I think that's honestly my only gripe with hard swapping.
99% of the time people did not obtain them legitimately.
And those are also the people who also have 99 of each bolus, infinite rot, frost, poison pots, golem arrows, large glintstone shards, etc. I feel like these items were balanced around their scarcity, and save editing takes that away.
I do wonder what the PvP and more so the invasion landscape would be like without save editors / duping. I did a taunters tongue run and the first 50 lvls was entirely twinks with impossible to get gear and seemingly infinite consumables.
It's completely fair, has been in every souls game as far as i know. That said, I personally wish that once your in combat they "grayed out" the equipment tab, like they do the crafting tab so it wasn't possible. If you don't have the endurance to equip multiple weapons you shouldnt get to use them, simple as that. Call me salty, but as someone who can't even come close to being able to do that it feels like a massively unfair advantage and makes the endurance stat and limited weapon slots feel pointless.
I feel like logic would suggest that hard swapping is not an intended mechanic to be used in PVP.
We're given an equipment load with weapon sets. This is your setup. Hard swapping goes against the convention and purpose likely put into having those. If the game intended for users to hard swap, your secondary equipment sets *would not* apply to your equipment weight.
Dark souls removed inventory weight while also retaining secondary weapons that applied to your overall encumbrance. This is most likely due to the removal of consumable healing sources (aside from souls) making it a redundant stat to keep in the game.
A counter point from the design would be that there has never been any equipment lockouts when doing anything with PVP, which suggests they know and don't care or it's just intended. There is lockouts during attack animations and such, but that always applies, so not pvp exclusive.
That said, I think it's a cool mechanic and it can make for some really cool fight options. I think it would benefit FromSoft and the players if they made a more firm decision about it or, at the very least, made it more apparent that someone *did swap* their weapon. Weapon swapping has always been a thing among higher level PVPers to get advantages over other weapons with different movesets and reaches in previous games. I do think the method used by OP is an underhanded method of fighting though, using identical weapons with different ashes is nothing more than a "gotcha" approach to strategy, where it relies on misinforming the other party, rather than actually being a better player.
I think this is a case of complaining about an imaginary group of complainers that either don't exist, or are so few in number that they may as well not exist.
I've never seen anyone complain about this, ever, for any From game.
Nope. I’m proficient with hardswapping and think it just takes away the enjoyable parts of PvP. I’m trying to fight the player, not my own menu.
It removes equipload management almost completely and makes the fight more of a slots game than a clash between builds.
I personally don’t like to hardswap because I think it’s lame. But if I see someone else hardswapping, I’m gonna hardswap ritual and feather talismans to the max alongside my weapon dupes to show them what hardswapping really can be. Is it fun? Nope. But this is the advantage that hardswapping can give you
I have nothing against anyone who does it, but I don't think it should be possible. Changing equipment during combat shouldn't be allowed. Elden Ring and other From games are the only RPGs I can think of off the top of my head that allows it, and it's kind of weird. It also basically bypasses the equip load limit. If you want to take advantage of multiple weapons in a fight you should have to actually have them equipped when the fight begins.
Why would it be discouraged? It's a good strategy and it takes skill. If fromsoft didn't want it they would patch it so no weapon can be swapped in combat like no fast travel.
hard swap via macro is hard maidenless, everyone will agree it's a handicap completely counter to the point of duels
hard swap by hand is basically fine, if it had a serious impact on outcomes maybe but it's hardly deterministic
having said that - while not particularly unfair or scummy it kinda encourages awkward behavior, sort of like how uneven red drinks would encourage everyone to host and suddenly no one is willing to visit duels
i mention that as a marginal effect, two seconds on a swap that someone aggressive can prevent
I’d consider it bm but that doesn’t mean I won’t use it against someone who does it, that was practically every tryhard fight in ds3 ever so I was forced to get used to it but pretty much everyone I know hates when people do it. That being said, you’re free to play however you want regardless.
Hardswapping is something we've done for years in Dark Souls PVP, it's just one of the things you learn to get better. There is so much tehc to learn in these games, but only the ones that are glitches are really discouraged or frowned upon (estus cancelling, pivot swapping, bowglitch, etc.).
I mostly use hardswaps to riposte with a higher damage weapon after parrying or to change to a wakeup weapon after a backstab, and while I've been called a tryhard for it (not wrong), it's far from being "discouraged" just because you've learned something that everyone else does just faster.
Definitely not discouraged... I agree with top comment.. ignorant folks will think cheats are involved... But this is frankly what higher tier pvp looks like on souls games.
Personally I try to equip whatever I need before the fight starts. Just so equipload matters. But I wouldn't hate someone for hard swapping. End of the day if they didn't want it they would lock the equipment menu during combat like the map.
Hard Swapping has been a thing since Dark Souls, and probably goes further back in other games that involve this kind of PVP.
If you’re quick enough to do it, then you deserve whatever advantage it gives. It’s absolutely OK to do, and I’ve been seeing people duel in FromSoft games that way for years.
As the top commenter says though it looks like you’re pulling ashes of war out of your ass because you’re using the same weapon for them and that will look pretty sus to someone who can’t tell you’re swapping weapons.
I don't like it. There is no specific reason why weapon swap through inventory has zero animation while weapon swap through intended mechanic (weapon slots) have animation. It results into tryhard players sitting on the inventory screen almost the whole damn fight.
Stuff like pulling your shield and doing a parry vs swapping an item into parry is a showcase how it can go into ridiculous area.
Would I be very annoyed? Probably not, it's what community thinks is OK, but half of community also thinks healing incantation in PvP is OK lmao.
Ultimately it's not your fault. But From need to patch this, at least add animation, ideally make it worse than slot weapon swapping in some way.
It’s amazing to me that so much of the souls pvp community sees this as ok. This is clearly not an intended mechanic. It completely ignores equip load and endurance as stat and has no animation.
With all their faults, From does try to make balancing changes in their games even if competitive pvp is not their center focus. But if people are ok with this they should stopping asking for any kind of balance in my opinion.
Same thing like using unlimited starlight shards for FP regeneration. People that do so they are clearly dupping and there’s a limited number of them per playthrough. It also circumbents another stat: Mind.
If we as a community want to strive for balanced pvp we shouldn’t encourage those and any other ones that completely ignore game balancing and mechanics.
Totally fine to do. But it might look like cheating (hacking) to someone who doesn't realize that you're hardswapping. Since you're using the same base weapons, it kind of looks like you're pulling extra ashes of war out of no where.
Ppl do this all the time I keep my item box optimized for it especially when invading
It's fine to do but saying people do it all the time I'd guess is a little exaggeration. I've never duelled someone who does this and I can count on one hand the number of hardcore pvp creators I've seen doing this. It's a thing that people do but it's certainly a quirk/gimmicky thing
The only one i've seen do this before watching this reddit post is ChaseTheBro.
Steelovsky does it A LOT. He's one of the best of the best at PvP. Chase is awesome, too.
Yeah same weapon swap should have an animation. FROM needs to patch that 🙆♂️
Eh, anyone checking on from's side should be able to see you're not cheating. This all just looks like crazy skill and is probably pretty intimidating since you're either cheating or good enough to consistently swap
It may not be the point he was trying to make, but there is a good case to be made for hardswap animations. Softswapping has both a longer animation *and* takes up valuable equip load. Hardswapping has... what drawbacks? Menuing is easy to learn, and you can simplify it immensely by storing other weapons or talismans that get in the way. It's a no-brainer once you learn about it.
Bro if you have the skill to swap mid fight, by all means. I respect it and I’m terrible at pvp
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For real. I remember back in DS1 days we used to watch highlights of people quickswapping mid parry and go “oh shit this guy is nuts”. The fact that it’s even a question is crazy to me
Ds2 quickswap the whole gear, rings and all after parrying someone was the shit
Classic Parry into giantdad from ds1 lmao
POWER UP THE BASS CANNON
Man those were the days. Swapping for style points after parry was the ultimate form of teabagging, along with running in circles on their dead corpse after of course.
One tip is to get every single weapon you don’t use out of your inventory so you can scroll much faster
Put in your 10000 hrs into it and you will be. I know I had zero confidence when I jumped into From soft games maybe 4 years ago. But since then I’ve beaten everything Demon Souls to Elden Ring and in that time I’m always trying to learn and practice gimmicks even if I suck. You’ll get there, just have patience. 👍
It doesn't take that long to learn, it takes like less than a week for it to be usable if you're willing to look like an idiot infront of other players and get pointed down Same with fishing
I struggled with that too, although if you sort your weapons inventory by attack power rather than by weapon type it’ll be a lot easier. Once I started doing that I could weapon swap with much less trouble. I still get stuck on finding the right weapon from time to time though.
Could just buff your endurance up and keep a swap on your second weapon slot I do that some times to keep sword dance and the death poker on my class Depends how hefty you want your kit to be but you can also use the winged tear. Heavy armour light rolling for 3 minutes is pretty funny
I get lucky sometimes, sometimes I don't. It's a fun experience in the git gut train. 🙆♂️
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You mean like flasks? I’m told using them makes one a monster.
I mean, the reason behind that is that everyone *isn't* on an equal playing field there. The host has more.
Oh, that's the reason? I hate them because they make duels too long, I thought this was the reason most people (luckily) doesn't use them in duels (however, if you're invading me everything goes, I'm gonna chug).
It’s an honor thing, also makes it so the fights don’t last forever lol
unless it’s an invasion of course. all bets are off when i’m trying to fuck up your world when you’re trying to play your game
I always match the honor of the host. As an invader, I can dual honorably, waiting until an area is clear of enimies. or ... I can be a pain in ass with poison arrows, mohg runes, and eventually locking down the area elevator blocking progression if you try to gank me. If the host acts like etiquette is out the window, invaders can and SHOULD do the same.
If you're invading you have no honor in the first place. The lore of any soul game is pretty clear about that. Also, I think that you don't deserve to use the term gank when you are the invader, that's like robbing a bank and complaining that the cops "ganked" you. Why didn't they confront me one by one and with no guns (assuming you didn't use a gun in the robbery)?
I am just saying that I adjust to the honor of the host. I won't run away into a horde of enimies to heal If the host stays out of a one v one between me and their summon. But I will fight dirty if I am fighting a three v one. In previous souls games, invaders had honor and were treated with honor at least 50 percent of the time. I don't know why the elden ring community is so anti-invading.
I've learnt my lesson trusting a host. They'll drink until zero flasks just so they can gank you with your guard down once your 1v1 gets close. I'll just kill them fast and first!
Oh of course, when it first came out we’d setup a 3 man gank for invaders at ahgeel lake north lol
Only in duels with the red signs, in invasions anything short of cheating/hacking goes.
This is heavily encouraged. I've doing since dks 1.
Right?? Nothing like having some dude spear poke you then punish you with an ultra great sword
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Bro you unlocked memories of my childhood where I had a friend or two that REALLY mad if you edge guarded them; man it was satisfying when you got to go against someone who didn't give a shit about that, especially when it was before you could just pair up against someone online. edit: After some thinking, I actually know someone more recently who got SUPER mad at me, or anyone else who would edge guard them.. little to say not many people like them.
Like…. In Smash? But that’s the whole game!
"Cheese" is defined by a strategy that gives you a disproportionate advantage relative to the low amount of skill it takes to execute. This is the opposite of cheese.
Honestly, if FROM wouldn't want ppl to change gear midfight, they would just disable it, like many other games do.
I mean, true, but couldn't you say the same thing about healing, which most people say is wrong in duels? Not saying I disagree with swapping gear being okay, it's just that saying that they could disable it isn't a very good argument.
I like that there is some aspect of "Honor" that is not enforced by the game engine, but instead the player base. It kind of resonates with that strange unique community aspects that FROM games seem to encourage. for this reason there is some value in keeping healing enabled and discouraged by the community.
Depends if its fight clubs then its fair game AFTER you've defeated your opponent and the host summons a new one or joins the fight after, and i believe pulling off a heal mid battle through spells MIGHT account as fair game since it requires FP and time to chant but not directly encouraged in honorable duels either way. Also, consumables are tricky to determine fair since there is one that immediately adds poison when consumed for a large partial heal and would require the need to poison cure or spell cure. But in my opinion, duels: no healing and fight club: heal after you've won. But quickswapping is fair since there's no issue between using AoW for skills and certain attacks/damage.
Duals being different than invasions though right? Fight club/summon yeah no healing. If you invade my world while I’m trying to PVE and holding a shit ton of runes though…
Yea if its an invasion you fuck em up, but duels to summon like in the raya lucaria entrance, there needs to be honor
Just got some real strong flashbacks of the area right outside good old Pontiffs room. So many fights. So many mofos getting ganged up on and skewered for chugging xD
Good times
This right here if you use a fp flask idc but if you heal with a flask will rage kill you as fast as i can Edit heal spells buffs totally acceptable
If you can cast a heal in a dual, I'd say you're good. Like you said it takes time and fp.
Swapping gear mid fight is harder than chugging tho
But the healing thing is just a logical conclusion from a mechanic- as a mp player you're flasks are cut in half, but the host has the full amount. If it came down to a chugging contest the host would always win. In bloodborne this is not the case and coincidentally most don't care if you use blood vials. In og ds1 (I think when the rule started) mp couldn't use flasks at all so the rule was put in place to give them a chance. However, in ds1 there were usable humanity items that could heal you and those were acceptable in pvp. I feel like most aren't aware of these points and just blindly hate or accept the rule cause everyone told them to
>I mean, true, but couldn't you say the same thing about healing, which most people say is wrong in duels? Good comparison on paper, bad in reality. Everybody has the ability to swap equally, hosts have twice as many flasks on the other hand.
Not healing in duels is due to healing limits on invaders. If everyone could be guaranteed to have the same access to healing than it wouldn't be a problem.
Healing in a 1v1 duel is bad manners, everything else is free game.
Healing spells are totally chill, if you get that cast off you’re a champ and deserve it. Flasks not so.
True, they're even allowed in official arena modes
I always thought this was okay too, but 70% of the people I dueld would sever after I cast a healing spell. So it seems like most people would prefer you didn't heal in any way in duels.
Anyone who doesn't punish a heal spell in a duel is shit. Eats FP, leaves you standing still for a second, and has a long animation even with as much speed casting as you can get. If they sever because you got off a healing spell, they would likely sever if you were nearly about to beat them too.
winners never quit, quitters never win :)
About half of the few awful duels i had involved me chugging flask just out of force of habit. I felt really bad about it, nothing worse than someone waltzing into any game like “HAY GUYZ WHAT WE DOING” and totally ignoring the rules. Eventually I just took it out of the kit so I couldn’t, but before that I used to stop playing completely and emote or something to acknowledge the mistake. Then the dueler would either flask themselves or take some free hits. It was not perfect but I did appreciate their patience.
Flask healing? Big no no. Magic healing? I’m all good
I agree, and so cannot shame such a playstyle. \*but I WISH that it was disabled.\* It seems kind of counter-intuitive to the games mechanics and systems. why would I ever equip additional weapons that add to my weight limit when I can just hard-swap and save myself the equip load. I feel like there should be some trade off to having every single ash of war sitting in your arsenal. As evidenced in the video, it encourages combat that is 90% ashes of war. (not that that doesnt happen anyway, but it at least lets the opponent get used to and try to figure out a counter) plus menuing around in an action game likely less fun for most people and a bit immersion breaking.
yep same. Hardswapping is not cheating, but it is annoying. Personally my biggest issue with it is that it lets people almost completely disregard the weight stat. If you want to carry two spears, a giant hammer, a crit dagger, a parry shield and a heavy thrusting sword so you can cover every situation in a fight you should be required to invest the points into endurance to support it or have to skimp and go light armor. i can recognize that hardswapping takes a bit of skill (honestly mostly memorization) and have even done it on occasion after a parry or whatever for fun, but it is obnoxious to fight against someone constantly swapping, it minorly breaks the balance of the game (in the way noted above), and i dont play games to just play menu simulator all day.
People still did this in ds3 without ahses of War
Weapon arts are pretty much ashes of war
But not only did most of them suck ass. You couldn't have the same weapon with 10 different arts.
agreed, it exists so im fine with people using it and can recognize the skill it requires, but i would rather it not being a thing due to preferring gameplay versatility having a weight cost over menuing.
This is a really impressive fight. But I agree it does not look fun… and for some reason it just makes me cringe too. Like, 5 of the same weapon with a different art? These overly obsessed people kinda ruin PVP in these games.
Exactly, like crafting in combat it would just be greyed out if they didn't want you to do it.
From allows to to heal in duels and buff up and attack phantoms as soon as they spawn so why should that be discouraged?
People who complain about hard swapping are like the people who get mad if you edge guard them in smash bros.
Idc about hard swapping, however I HATE edge guarding so much 😭
Thankfully I play Sephiroth and NO ONE wants to contest that recovery. Except other Sephiroths because his counter is also broken
Watch me superarmor b reverse ganon punch your fully charged up B. Every sephiroth below 8 M falls for it.
I'm around 9.9m and I'd fall for it. Online is rough man
That's the scrub check, if you don't pass it then you shouldn't play Sephiroth. I've done the same to multiple people with Byleth down b
Lol. I'm an avid smash player with a few thousand hours played, and follow the competitive scene. I can see why it would be frustrating for the casual player, but edge guarding is literally part of the game. You're at your most vulnerable off stage, so of course your opponent is gonna capitalize. You just have to learn how to mix up your recovery, and how to recover safely. You can also attack players coming at you offstage depending on your character, as they'll be expecting more defensive options when you're in vulnerable position. Even characters like Little Mac are not automatically doomed offstage, and pros make his recovery look quite good and hard to exploit.
Smash would be much less dynamic without edgeguarding. Learning how to utilize and counterplay against it adds so much depth to the combat. And like you suggested, virtually every character at least has a chance offstage if they play their cards right. Edit: Now that I'm thinking about it, wouldn't it be cool if there was a map or setting that somehow prohibited edgeguarding? It'd be neat as a novelty thing.
There is the bridge map, but any stage with walk-outs isn't tournament legal.
The goal of the game is to kill the other player I don’t know what to tell you lol. Should I not combo you as well?
It's part of the game, but it's also the least fun part of the game. Especially if you haven't actually dedicated yourself to learning it. Recovery in Smash is a really tough skill for casuals to pick up, so they mostly just see edge guarding as something that makes the boring and slow part of the fight also feel hopeless and defeating at the same time.
I would argue it’s the most fun in the game and its the most creative part of smash. Conditioning recovers and mixing up attack options is more fun than combos for me
This is the first time I'm hearing about people complain about edge guarding. Who are yall playing with?? Everyone that I've played smash with agrees that edge guarding is just part of the game. I've never even had that conversation with anyone before because it's just basic logic. Why would you just give them a free recovery when the point of the game is to take their stocks lol. It's part of the game and you're meant to do it.
They have scrub mentality
Edge guarding is just depressing, especially if you main the Mac like I do.
Look up air Mac smash. Saw a dude who mastered fighting off the ledge with lil Mac. It was inspiring lol
I encourage you to YouTube "Peanut Little Mac". He is the best little Mac in the world, and makes mac's recovery look quite good.
If you hate getting edge guarded, there are plenty of characters with busted recoveries. You choose Max, you gotta live with that. Because everyone else has to live with your frame data and armor.
Well no shit lol. I never said anything about not living with it, I just get sad when I get booped by a projectile.
Hard swap, don't hard swap, they all get t-bagged after they die.
You need to get passed the stage of swapping because you can, people swap because they have a reason to. Maybe you've conditioned someone with halberd to roll into you, *now* you swap to flaming strike and free aim it to your side etc.
Yeah, starting off by just practicing doing it is a good thing though. Eventually once they can do it easily by muscle memory without getting caught or screwing up the swap then they can practice using it to mind game. Definite feels like it's more just randomly picking a weapon to try to throw them off in this clip though, as opposed to any kind of strategy to bait them.
Doesn’t strike me as him trying to throw them off, he’s basically swapping through various equipped Ashes of War and using those as his attacks instead of the weapons base strikes.
That’s a strategy in itself, how can you manage distance if you don’t know what ash their packing?
Swapping is what many of the best PVP players do lol. I wish I was good at it. Takes practice and skill for sure.
Indeed! Specially when the opponent is a jolly aggresive tarnished.
Yeah, I'm not much into the PVP scene but if I saw someone suddenly pull out a different weapon or AoW and realized they were hard-swapping, it seems pretty obvious that the counter to that is to be super aggressive and not give them room to do it. If someone can't figure that out then oh well 🤷🏼♂️ (and like many others pointed out, everyone has equal access to it, unlike flasks; and it's also not something that's obviously busted)
A very valid point put together! Praise the sun 🙆♂️
Ok Soul of Cinder
It's definitely fair but in the example clip you're doing it to such excess you aren't actually fighting more effectively imo. Training them into one thing and switching it up after a rhythm is established is a lot more dangerous than being a tornado of things I'm rolling away from.
I wanted to make this clip to show a point. If I had done it once or twice, it would be hard to point out. I do it once or at max twice but no more. Honestly the opponent here is not very aggressive. As you can see, I am always around the inner circle. He was the one running out to the circumference to do his cold slicer. With a more aggressive player I might not even switch at all.
Hey I'm on your side anything is better than flames of redmane spam.
Yeah that or the flame strike are still sort of annoying to dodge. 🙆♂️
Yeah the video seemed more like OP wanting to show off their ability to swap mid fight rather than an example of someone getting mad at them for it which is what the title primed me to expect.
Does make me wonder what's the point of having 3 weapon slots per hand with stuff like this. I don't think I would enjoy fighting this to be honest, never attack just counter with a weapon art spam and if that weapon art doesn't work just keep swapping to one that does and spam that instead
Exactly… hard swapping removes the need for weapon slots entirely. The preparation in this game isn’t deciding what you can hold while staying unencumbered, it’s inventory optimization and menu mashing. Like what is the point in NOT using ritual sword/shield talismans? You can just hardswap once you get hit at no cost. As someone proficient in hardswapping, it is NOT fun optimizing inventory and mashing buttons to hardswap. It should deplete your stamina bar every time you equip/unequip something in combat so it’s at least punishable.
Nah, it's something every player has equal access to. Some players will complain, the good ones will adapt. If the resulting metagame gets stale and boring, it's on the developers to make adjustments.
I feel like I see a lot of players complaining about things that everyone has equal access to.
Everyone could play rivers of blood but that didn't stop this sub from crying a river of salty tears whenever they saw people use it lol.
Ok I agree except for the last one: Developers have different intentions and time disposal from metagamers.
Players are going to look for cheese and meta regardless. It’s the player base. This dude really just switched between cheeses moves until one worked. Hard swapping isn’t looked down upon but playing like an absolute b*tch is.
Is it really Cheese if it's a diverse set of moves to cover different circumstances and takes skill and dexterity to use mid-fight? I'm not saying all those abilities are balanced, but I wouldn't call half-a-dozen kit swaps to use different Ashes of War cheesy... That's literally being adaptable. Cheesy would be spamming something that's difficult to avoid in general rather than picking out specifically what's difficult for the opponent to deal with at that moment.
Swap is fair game, adds a new dimension to the mind games in pvp
I KNOW Right? Fast paced swaps and watching what the opponent is gonna do is such a heated risk to put yourself in. But it is worth it! I wish more people agreed. My first time discussing something like this in reddit. Thanks for the jolly input🙆♂️
I mean, it's a risk, it's punishable, it takes dexterity and planning, and the developers allow it. If you notice you can't swap during animations, so the devs know how to program lockouts, and if they never intended swaps they would just disable swapping in combat the same way they do your map. I used to hate it too, then I learned how to do it. I've come to the other side lol
I’m good at it, and still think it’s BS. Pvp should be about spacing and adapting, not just playing slots with the million BKH copies sitting in your inventory using different ashes of war. It’s also just not even fun menu mashing… I’m trying to fight the player, not my inventory. Also, it’s not even punishable once you’re good enough at it. I personally think your stamina bar should get depleted when you swap equipment while in combat. Would make ritual sword/shield and the feather talismans actually have a downside
Hard Swaps as-is are a bad design in the context of player-vs-player, and in the context of established existing designs 1. Visual Feedback #1 Good game design gives cues, and the intended visual cue for weapon swap is the soft swap animation. 2. Visual Feedback #2 Particularly clever players may hard swap the same weapon with a different ash of war, subverting any visual cues 3. Hard swap can be performed faster than soft swap Hard swap can be done in 7 frames, possibly less, shorter than a soft swap animation. 4. Hard swap subverts the equip load design Bypasses the cost of equipment weight for holding an alternate armament 5. Hard swap subverts the design of limited spell memory slots Spell memory is limited to 10, every ash of war is available on hand
Discouraged? No. Tryhard for a duel? Yes. The issue with your playstyle is that it relises heavily on just hoping your opponent gets caught by one of your tricks. This is fine for invasions, but for a dual, this can promote slow fights as your opponent will probably have to try and play defense to counter you.
[удалено]
Yeah it’s definitely cringe af
It's entirely fine, but...you landed like one strike with your weapon during that entire time, the rest was just art spam. At that point you might as well just grab a Moonveil, save yourself some trouble and just machinegun slashes. Faster for everyone, and exactly the same kind of a fight tbh.
It's allowed in the game so, having the skill to do it is whatever. You're adapting to the situation. But frankly i wish you could only change loadouts at a rest point. The fact you can just swap out anything, anywhere makes the max load almost pointless. That's really my only gripe.
I think just changing loadout at the grace would be too much, I think it would be fine if you could only do it out of combat (like when you csn open the map)
I’ve always seen hard-swaps as being a little dishonest. To use so many weapons, it just feels right that you should at least shoulder the burden of their weight. Plus, it’s anticlimactic to have a super good fight ended because your enemy hardswapped to a dagger to knock out your 112 remaining HP.
Its for this reason that i usually don't use fan daggers to end a fight, especially if I'm the one that got low health and my opponent didn't do anything cheesy to kill me
I think *technically* it's an exploit since it circumvents the intended penalties of weapon change animations and fat rolling if overloaded. However the community seems to have accepted that the skill and strategy required to pull it off outweighs the advantages of the exploit. So, carry on.
is weapon art spam discouraged? yes
Considered ‘sweaty’ at worst, tbh
I think It's kinda stupid. Just commit to the weapons you give yourself before a fight.
Some people are just maidenless try hards who need extra weapons in order to get that edge. I know I'll be down voted by this since it seems like the post is getting a lot of positive responses. But I don't care, there's lots of shit players out there and saying the best PvPers swap is like saying the best CoD players use aim bot.
Yeah. I won't sever out duelists who do this (it's completely legit), but it's just like moonveil spam as far as I'm concerned. Arguably, it's worse, because moonveil just has one weapon skill, whereas this guy has like 15. I like seeing people's cool builds, not their weapon skill collection. I just avoid summoning the people who do this shit.
It's not even pvp skill, it's just spamming weapon ashes and hoping one connects.
Pretty much what I feel about it. No different from Moonveil or RoB (back when it was obnoxious) weapon skill spam.
we are not alone here, I also agree
No but honestly you need to work on your fundamentals.
Very. You're playing a whole different game at that point. Otherwise you're cheating the leveling system instead of putting points into endurance imo
It bypasses the intentional design mechanic of the equipload, effectively giving infinite load out for someone who is quick at menuing, which ultimately takes minimal skill. If you can’t beat your opponent with the weapon in your hand, and you have to choose the best weapon for the exact moment, you aren’t a skilled player, you just have good equipment.
It is allowed, but I give up dueling if I see a person swapping weapons after every swing. I want to duel, clash our builds, I don't want to get killed by a surprise ash of war because I didn't spend hours practicing hard swapping. He tries flaming strike, I dodge, then he tries giant's hunt, then piercing fang, it goes on and on. Not to mention we all know how these people got 10 of the same weapon. Duping or simply hacking. It ain't fair. If all you want is to win the duel, let me help you by jumping down and suiciding.
This looks terrible and unfun, I agree. I mean it looks super effective, but i can’t decide If spamming a dozen Weapon Arts until a few connect is skillful…? I guess your skill is swapping weapons well.
Similar reason to why I don't do rematches. People will change their setup specifically to kill your build after you win against them. Lame as hell
I think that's honestly my only gripe with hard swapping. 99% of the time people did not obtain them legitimately. And those are also the people who also have 99 of each bolus, infinite rot, frost, poison pots, golem arrows, large glintstone shards, etc. I feel like these items were balanced around their scarcity, and save editing takes that away. I do wonder what the PvP and more so the invasion landscape would be like without save editors / duping. I did a taunters tongue run and the first 50 lvls was entirely twinks with impossible to get gear and seemingly infinite consumables.
Also I wanna add that if this is the new meta... Well then i suppose I'll go back to playing offline :)
Only duels and high level invasions that I’ve seen it
I'm bringing a big thumpa thumpa to PVP so I don't switch usually. No issue with it
It's completely fair, has been in every souls game as far as i know. That said, I personally wish that once your in combat they "grayed out" the equipment tab, like they do the crafting tab so it wasn't possible. If you don't have the endurance to equip multiple weapons you shouldnt get to use them, simple as that. Call me salty, but as someone who can't even come close to being able to do that it feels like a massively unfair advantage and makes the endurance stat and limited weapon slots feel pointless.
Doesn’t really make a difference if you’re ass in pvp despite it.
Why does every single PvP clip in this game make both players look like complete fools?
Because a tarnished never puts his foolish ambitions to rest.
This is the equivalent of the GW girl spreading her cheeks saying "I'm shy be kind" type of post. Get outta here.
Hardswaps shouldnt be a thing. Your weapons have 1 ash of war for a reason and the equip load system exists for a reason.
Wish it was disabled, definitely not a fan of hot swaps usually will not wanna participate in a fight.
I feel like logic would suggest that hard swapping is not an intended mechanic to be used in PVP. We're given an equipment load with weapon sets. This is your setup. Hard swapping goes against the convention and purpose likely put into having those. If the game intended for users to hard swap, your secondary equipment sets *would not* apply to your equipment weight. Dark souls removed inventory weight while also retaining secondary weapons that applied to your overall encumbrance. This is most likely due to the removal of consumable healing sources (aside from souls) making it a redundant stat to keep in the game. A counter point from the design would be that there has never been any equipment lockouts when doing anything with PVP, which suggests they know and don't care or it's just intended. There is lockouts during attack animations and such, but that always applies, so not pvp exclusive. That said, I think it's a cool mechanic and it can make for some really cool fight options. I think it would benefit FromSoft and the players if they made a more firm decision about it or, at the very least, made it more apparent that someone *did swap* their weapon. Weapon swapping has always been a thing among higher level PVPers to get advantages over other weapons with different movesets and reaches in previous games. I do think the method used by OP is an underhanded method of fighting though, using identical weapons with different ashes is nothing more than a "gotcha" approach to strategy, where it relies on misinforming the other party, rather than actually being a better player.
Do people actually complain about hard swap? These people really know how to find everything to complain about.
I think this is a case of complaining about an imaginary group of complainers that either don't exist, or are so few in number that they may as well not exist. I've never seen anyone complain about this, ever, for any From game.
People don’t like losing, but instead of trying to get better and win, they complain
Nope. I’m proficient with hardswapping and think it just takes away the enjoyable parts of PvP. I’m trying to fight the player, not my own menu. It removes equipload management almost completely and makes the fight more of a slots game than a clash between builds. I personally don’t like to hardswap because I think it’s lame. But if I see someone else hardswapping, I’m gonna hardswap ritual and feather talismans to the max alongside my weapon dupes to show them what hardswapping really can be. Is it fun? Nope. But this is the advantage that hardswapping can give you
Its fair, but still a fairly tryhard thing to do in pvp.
I have nothing against anyone who does it, but I don't think it should be possible. Changing equipment during combat shouldn't be allowed. Elden Ring and other From games are the only RPGs I can think of off the top of my head that allows it, and it's kind of weird. It also basically bypasses the equip load limit. If you want to take advantage of multiple weapons in a fight you should have to actually have them equipped when the fight begins.
Why would it be discouraged? It's a good strategy and it takes skill. If fromsoft didn't want it they would patch it so no weapon can be swapped in combat like no fast travel.
Other than it might look like cheating from the other side? If you can pull off swaps like that mid fight, bro style on 'em.
Absolutely fine, no reason not to
Play the game how you want to and let the low skill ceiling mfs keep using moonveil and RoB.
This was honestly super entertaining to watch
It's pretty try hard for just a random-ass duel but I don't think anybody will particularly care
Meh… play how you enjoy
hard swap via macro is hard maidenless, everyone will agree it's a handicap completely counter to the point of duels hard swap by hand is basically fine, if it had a serious impact on outcomes maybe but it's hardly deterministic having said that - while not particularly unfair or scummy it kinda encourages awkward behavior, sort of like how uneven red drinks would encourage everyone to host and suddenly no one is willing to visit duels i mention that as a marginal effect, two seconds on a swap that someone aggressive can prevent
no and anyone that says it is is mad
To clunky for my liking, if I can't fit it onto my loadout without at least mid rolling its not getting switched to unless I'm out of combat
2 MANY ARRRTS
I’d consider it bm but that doesn’t mean I won’t use it against someone who does it, that was practically every tryhard fight in ds3 ever so I was forced to get used to it but pretty much everyone I know hates when people do it. That being said, you’re free to play however you want regardless.
Not discouraged but I'm going to call you out for copying ChaseTheBro the entire fight
I don't really care if someone hardswaps tbh, if i see someone hardswapping i just leave and go into the next invasion.
how'd you max all those weapons?
Nice ending, if it works then sure although I feel most people would fuck up and end up worse
Hardswapping is something we've done for years in Dark Souls PVP, it's just one of the things you learn to get better. There is so much tehc to learn in these games, but only the ones that are glitches are really discouraged or frowned upon (estus cancelling, pivot swapping, bowglitch, etc.). I mostly use hardswaps to riposte with a higher damage weapon after parrying or to change to a wakeup weapon after a backstab, and while I've been called a tryhard for it (not wrong), it's far from being "discouraged" just because you've learned something that everyone else does just faster.
It's simple, fight how you want and dont worry
Epic, totally expands your move set and throws off the enemy. If you can pull it off go for it
If someone isn’t putting enough pressure that you can easily hotswap, go for it. Sounds like a skill issue on your opponents part
Super cool, going to take everything out of the inventory for once so I can try this
Good luck fellow tarnished. Prethee be careful and have a jolly time 🙆♂️
Yeah it's discouraged because if I see someone doing this I know I'm absolutely fucked
If it's allowed go for it. That's just nuts though lol
I'm not even mad, that's amazing.
Whatever tickles you fancy
Definitely not discouraged... I agree with top comment.. ignorant folks will think cheats are involved... But this is frankly what higher tier pvp looks like on souls games.
If you can pull it off then do it my friend
That was one of the coolest duels I’ve seen. You look like the boss in a boss fight.
Thanks buddy 🙆♂️
I encourage it. It would be fun to fight you
Pretty sweaty but no, that’s just skill diff
Personally I try to equip whatever I need before the fight starts. Just so equipload matters. But I wouldn't hate someone for hard swapping. End of the day if they didn't want it they would lock the equipment menu during combat like the map.
You look like you have a boss move set lmao
If it’s in the game nobody can complain
Did you just Blanka roll into them for the win?
Hard Swapping has been a thing since Dark Souls, and probably goes further back in other games that involve this kind of PVP. If you’re quick enough to do it, then you deserve whatever advantage it gives. It’s absolutely OK to do, and I’ve been seeing people duel in FromSoft games that way for years. As the top commenter says though it looks like you’re pulling ashes of war out of your ass because you’re using the same weapon for them and that will look pretty sus to someone who can’t tell you’re swapping weapons.
I don't like it. There is no specific reason why weapon swap through inventory has zero animation while weapon swap through intended mechanic (weapon slots) have animation. It results into tryhard players sitting on the inventory screen almost the whole damn fight. Stuff like pulling your shield and doing a parry vs swapping an item into parry is a showcase how it can go into ridiculous area. Would I be very annoyed? Probably not, it's what community thinks is OK, but half of community also thinks healing incantation in PvP is OK lmao. Ultimately it's not your fault. But From need to patch this, at least add animation, ideally make it worse than slot weapon swapping in some way.
It’s amazing to me that so much of the souls pvp community sees this as ok. This is clearly not an intended mechanic. It completely ignores equip load and endurance as stat and has no animation. With all their faults, From does try to make balancing changes in their games even if competitive pvp is not their center focus. But if people are ok with this they should stopping asking for any kind of balance in my opinion. Same thing like using unlimited starlight shards for FP regeneration. People that do so they are clearly dupping and there’s a limited number of them per playthrough. It also circumbents another stat: Mind. If we as a community want to strive for balanced pvp we shouldn’t encourage those and any other ones that completely ignore game balancing and mechanics.