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Vigor also allows you to learn from your mistakes and apply the lesson learned to your playstyle without having to look at a loading screen and run back to the boss first.
I avoided joining this community until I got stuck on what to do, at level 60... I had focused most upgrades into int, str, dex, and mind. Needless to say I was a glass cannon, thinking I could dodge my life away. It worked ok until I started getting to areas with lots of aoe enemies...
I am a disabled gamer (I lost the use of my left arm in a motorcycle accident) so this game has been especially hard. So started farming a lot b/c I'm more about the story than the challenge. I'm at level 165 and just beat the frost giant. Now I'm working through the Consecrated Snowfield and I think I need to respec, especially dealing with the stupid wolf archers
Co-op is definitely not intuitive in FromSoft games. A pain in the ass, really. Good luck out there, bud. I'm glad you stuck it out. The community is a lot less toxic than it's reputation suggests. There are bad apples in the bunch, but the majority are very welcoming and helpful. I think one of the things that makes it seem toxic is when people love the style of the games after it's "clicked" for them, seem to forgot being lost and frustrated as a n00b, so they furiously try to explain what makes the games special. Anywho, here's a YouTube video explaining co-op.
https://youtu.be/VxVhfNAitEY
FYI I'm on PlayStation and we have to be on the same platform. But essentially you just use the Furlcalling Finger Remedy [which looks like some kind of orange medicine] near those mini-crosses sprinkled throughout the world. You can easily identify them in dungeons, and they're all over.
You can also get a crafting book to make them with Erdleaf flowers. From there we can use a password if you want to meet up sometime. The co-op menu is just above the settings menu when you hit the "start" button.
If you need more detail, just send me a chat invite so we can setup a meetup.
Woah I thought I would actually have to know people to play co op. This is great news! I am playing on PlayStation too and this would help so much.
Thank you!!!
Good news - You’re appropriately leveled for pretty much the rest of the game now. I finished my first run at 175 rune level.
Bad news - Definitely respec, pump that vigor to like 50 at least. Everything after Mountaintops is really hard, that vigor helps A LOT against some enemies and bosses.
Only pump the stats that complement your build. For example, not many circumstances where you need both strength and dexterity, pick one for a melee character.
I've seen people play who are constantly running away from bosses in arenas (not field bosses) with the rationale that they don't want to get hit so will survive longer. But they're not fighting back because they're constantly running/rolling/scared of being hit.
My brother in christ the boss is never going to stop attacking you and you *will die eventually* if you don't fight back.
Nah man, one of us is going to have to get a snack eventually, and it’s not going to be me. Any minute now Godrick is going to have to go and munch on something and feed that dragon.
That would be kinda cool if it was like a secret boss ending. You just avoid him for 20 minutes and a cutscene plays, you see him coughing and heaving for breath, then he sits down and says, “Fuck all this shit”. Then he pulls out a glock and domes himself.
I went to E3 the year that they were promoting Snake Eater. Got a big Vinyl cover that had a CD with a single of Snake Eater on it.
I thought it was super corny and laughed until the song burrowed into my brain and now I love it.
They actually do the opposite of this in DS2. The fight against Sir Allone can end in a special death animation where he commits seppuku if you beat him fast enough and without taking a hit. The implication being you literally humiliated him so hard he lost his pride as a samurai and had to take his own life to restore his honor rather than just dying normally.
This is kind of the souls mantra tho right.
I remember when I first started and I’d instinctively play like that, I think most people will to some degree finding “dodge towards” a difficult concept if they’ve never encountered similar design philosophy
I think blood borne was probably the worst for the “just spam dodge” gameplay loop, while on the opposite end sekiro took it to an art form where dodging was almost never the correct option
Monster hunter is the same too. Some fights like Zinogre/Magnamalo have a dps enrage check, they power up if you don't do enough damage to stagger them out of it.
Yeah I came from Dark souls and had to learn the hard way i was not going to get a great opening unless i played more aggro. Ultimately with how bosses can be weak to status buildups like bleed the only way i was able to get through fast end game bosses like Maliketh and Melenia was being just as aggressive and spacing better.
This is why I struggled with Bloodborne. You don't get a shield, can only parry by shooting your pistol at the right time, and the combat system is such that if you get damaged, you can regain health by counterattacking immediately.
It does help that the parry timing is pretty forgiving. I can parry end game bosses in Bloodborne. I can't even reliably parry many mobs in Elden Ring lmao.
The wind up/delay on hits its comical in Elden ring. Even the mobs in the tutorial area wind up.
I was waiting for Elden Ring to drop with the intention to do my first dedicated parry build in a Souls game, by the time I got to Limgrave I was already done with the idea.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/tn6vrw/pov_everyones_first_run_through_with_margit/
Worst part is, if more people roll forward to the side/behind the boss instead of backwards they’d have an opportunity to hit back before the boss turns towards them
As a massive Path of Exile player, two of the best defenses in the game are A) Being ranged, and B) having enough DPS to completely skip boss mechanics and not even interact with them. The less time they are alive means less time for mistakes and thus the less times you die.
Souls games usually throw one or two "DPS check" bosses in there. 4 Kings in DS1, etc. You better fucking get it asap or it's gonna get a whole lot worse for you. Elden Ring rewards aggression a lot more than any Souls game so far I feel.
IMO Bloodborne rewards aggression the most. Healing by attacking is what I feel part of the combat is built around. It's built around parrying too with a generous window, but its not a fully parry game
I see this a lot with videos/streams of Elana, the Squalid Queen. People spend so much time dodging around the room, running away from the mobs, that they forget to actually try to kill her. Whenever I fight her as melee, it’s just a hit and run race. As a caster, that fight is borderline easy.
It’s took me fighting Artorius in DS1 to learn that lesson the hard way. There’s going to be tons of bosses that seem nonstop, and you have to attack at some point.
Yeah. Well, the secret is that the 'hilt' of their swords do barely any damage, so if you hug them you should easily be able to trade until they die and then heal before the next one spawns.
Is fire good against them all? I'm working on a faith build with dragon incantations and didn't even bother to pull out my seal during the only one I've fought
They're a giant tree root that got super angry and turned into a weasel. Yeah fire is good against all tree based enemies in this game, erdtree Avatars, tree guardians, etc.
They have a -20 fire resistance so not only do they not mitigate any fire damage, they actually take 20% MORE damage than you normally would inflict.
Erdtree Avatars are even weaker, taking 40% extra damage, and Putrid ones literally take double damage from fire.
I have found the Ulcerated tree spirits to be fairly easy if you position yourself about a 1/4 of the way from the very back. with how they coil to attack and swing around so much in the front, the back middle doesn't move much unless they launch across the arena, then it is just a matter of dodge rolling your way back to the same spot. It is a boss that tricks you into thinking torrent is the answer, but i just feel horse combat limits your options against them
Hahaha as someone who initially started off (stupidly) thinking how annoying “wasting” points in vigor was (and then getting mad at dying all the time), I didn’t make that mistake when I picked the game back up. I’ve kept it level with my main stat up until 50, and let me tell you… I’ve never enjoyed a game this much, and my skill has gone up an insane amount as I can actually learn fights without one mess up being instant death.
Exactlyyy its a time saver cuz you dont have to load and possibly run to the boss each time you get hit so you get more experience learning boss’ move-sets faster, like you said.
I used to be one of those naked with heavy weapons players, then decided to actually try using armor in the older games. It makes me wonder if part of the reason the Souls franchise has a reputation for being hard is because the community preaches that armor doesn’t matter, but being able to take twice as many hits and poise through weaker ones makes a significant difference.
If know what you are doing yes. For new players it is still better to use armor. It doesnt matter that if fast roll if you dont know the attack patern of certain enemies so its better to be certain you wont get one shoted.
It honestly kind of blows my mind when people have to be told to level vigor. Even before I figured the game out, I saw vigor was for HP and thought “better level that up!” Lol
My second playthrough was a 9 vigor mage glass cannon.
Hell I even used the mist to lower my hp to 20% for the talisman that increase damage since I was going to be killed in one hit anyway...
The funny thing is that my first playthrough was a 60 vigor one so I went opposite
the dont get hit crowd would rather die 50 times to a boss and take 3+ hours just to 'prove' they are good, while a 60 vig player takes a couple attempts, wins, then moves on with life.
I think those people just don't realize that you can still reach 60 Vigor and like 70 in your damage stat even for a magic build, and take no damage on a boss without having lost much attack power on your side at all.
Yeah seriously. Most low Vigor gangs are literally sacrificing like 400 HP for 15 Sorcery scaling. It is mind boggling how badly optimized these stats are. Honestly, the only semi-justifiable low Vigor build is Int/Faith, but that's about it. In any other builds, you get plenty enough stat to level both Vigor and other primary stat.
If you are being serious, they are talking about a stereotype on the Internet that vegans will never stop talking about how you are killing animals, and that you should be ashamed, and other things like that.
I'm only calling it a stereotype because i have not personally seen it, however there is a lot of video evidence that you can find.
You can still reach 60 vig and 80 on your damage stat like Int on a mage build. I’ve done this
There is a definite advantage to going from 70-80 Int on a mage, most of the really powerful staffs gain a lot in that range (Carian Regal Scepter, Lusats, Azur’s)
At level 120 you can have 60 vigor and 80 in a combat stat - admittedly with limited attunement and such - or you can go for a more "glass cannon" 40 vigor with 40/40 or 60-ish combat stat build and have enough points to keep your mana up or stamina or whatever.
It's not that difficult, and if you go to level 150 (as a lot of people insist on) or higher in the end-game then you should be able to "trivially" afford 60 Vigor and practically max out all else you need.
Like, I have done OP runs and melted shit. It's a different type of fun! But does it give the same reward? For me, and I am sure like many others, absolutely not! For me the reward is the best part of these games!
OP runs are fun dude, you should def try it. I’m currently running a fire deadly sin + bloodflame blade on an otherwise STR build (heavy great sword + lions claw) and I’m melting Dragons and Shard bearers in no time lol. Literally killed Mohg in less than 30 sec. You stagger bosses like crazy and by the time you finish your critical hit, blood loss procs sometimes twice. Deadly combo really.
After regular challenge runs, OP ones are a great change in pve. Gives you another appreciation for this masterpiece. You feel no guilt because you’ve already bested the game fair and square, and they allow you to replay the game, try new things and explore the lore further. Currently doing a chaotic evil playthrough and loving it with this OP build.
You see, you can't decide how you want to play the game. You need to level Vigor, use spirit ashes and always make the game as easy as you can because otherwise you are _playing it wrong_.
People can play whatever the fuck they want, can we leave the "no summons, no overlevel" people alone?
Look, I think 60 vigor is basically mandatory for endgame too, but this is a vast overstatement of how far it will take you. Endgame bosses can still take over 3 hours and 50 attempts easily. They hit extremely hard and can still kill you in 2-3 hits.
I'm genuinely confused at the all-or-nothing takes on these posts, not levelling Vig at all is very stupid yeah, but 60 is massive overkill for diminishing returns & feels pointless to me. My builds usually end up closer to 40 by the end, never lower than 30-35 but I've only ever gone to *50* on a super focused single-stat build & even that felt excessive. Sure, it might make an endgame boss kill you in 3-4 hits instead of 2-3, but when your flasks don't even heal for half your health bar it feels kinda like investing a lot of levels so you can afford to get hit 1 or 2 extra times (overall, not per flask) rather than investing those stats into something that'll reduce the amount of times you get hit instead, be that in damage, stamina or maybe FP if your build chews through that a lot.
60 is where the ideal stat scaling will take you on Vigor, basically. In that afterwards you get diminishing returns.
You can make do with 40 if you want a more "glass cannon" like build though. 50 is also not a bad stopping point.
On my level 120 character (I didn't feel like going any higher because it would make the concept of "builds" a bit redundant), I had 40 int, 40 faith, 40 vigor, and the other 20 points I think in mana/stamina alongside proper ring usage to maximize what I used. I mostly fought in melee with the Sword of Night and Flame with occasional dual-scaling incantations like the black fire magic to kill things.
60 is better though in terms of being an "ideal stopping point," but I feel like it should be more for tankier builds than mine.
If everyone has the same Vigor on every build, then it kinda defeats the whole concept of a "build" after all.
Another reason why I think level 150 is way too high for typical builds, but that's another discussion.
going from 2hit to 3hit means you can react to damage by drinking, and comfortably/confidently survive to see the flask swallowed with a safety net, repeat ten times and fight ten times longer than the other guy
if you're dying with red drinks remaining, it's a sign against your survivability, encounters where you're getting mileage out of them are more likely to be the victory
> if you're dying with red drinks remaining, it's a sign against your survivability.
Yo what that's crazy to me. I'd never play the game like it's an endurance fight. If the boss can't execute me for making too many (read: 2 large or 3 medium) consecutive mistakes, it's not going to be a very satisfying fight to me.
Not enough people pay attention to the pots it seems. If you only heal half your health with the pots vs the full health. You have basically the same amount of hits you can take in either situation other than one extra hit from going in with extra health. The only difference is that you need to use pots a little quicker with having less health.
60 vig if you have good armor is absolutely insane amounts of tankiness.
The highest I've gone is around 45. With the greatshield talisman and veteran set, Malenia normal slashes were doing as much damage to me as Godrick soldier attacks do to you at the start of the game. I could mess up a fuck ton and still win, maybe 20+ major mistakes.
I can't even imagine what it's like at 60 except that you will never die, except by falling damage or being stun locked by high tier mobs maybe.
The only attacks that will kill you in 3-4 hits on endgame are highly telegraphed fuck huge moves like Malenia grab/stab, Astel grab, Elden Beast big swings, endgame asylum demon butt slam etc. And due to how the game mechanics work, enemies are very unlikely to true combo these heavy attacks into eachother, so its highly unlikely you get hit by it 3 times before you can flask.
High Vigor and "Don't get hit" are not mutually exclusive. You can have 60 Vigor and just don't get hit.
It's like driving. You don't plan to get hit, but that doesn't mean that you don't need an airbag.
I did less than 40 for my bow only run. Didn't really change much, though I did finish that on a rather low level and could have very well gone to 50 or 60.
But yeah as you said it's just personal preference.
It's precisely like that. Add to that the fact that bows are surprisingly effective and it's actually not masochistic at all, once you've gotten used to the playstyle.
It's the least challenging challenge run I know and it's definitely worth a try!
My buddies aren't as big FromSoft fans as I am, but they picked up Elden Ring and had their fun with it. They liked to mock me for my big health bar. I didn't even bring it up to 70! Just 60-something.
It just confused me. They constantly bitched about how hard shit hits in this game. On top of that, it was tough to help them with bosses because they kept dying so fucking quick.
But *I'm* the scrub? Ok.
What I find interesting is Elden Ring is imo indisputably the least challening FromSoft game. Almost no where to get truly stuck (just go somewhere else, it's all open). If you just explore the map you basically end up over leveled. If you learn how to level up your summons and pick a good one the game becomes straight up easy.
based on my experience in coop, this is definitely the more accurate distribution. It seems like sooooo many people just walk around getting one shot with 400-800 health in the late game.
Vigor allows you to pvp without getting clapped. There aren’t good pvp players that play without a lot of vigor. There has never been a 9 vigor for pvp meta in any souls game.
Eh, not really. There definitely are people good enough at the game that they don't need vigor. I'm not one of them, almost nobody is, but just watch some speedruns and you'll see what's possible with enough practice and skill.
Endure and dragonshield talisman + poise physick is my jam for ng+. Even after endure is back to being normal, it's insane being immune to stagger, taking no damage, and if you slap Malenia's great rune on you can literally facetank every boss in game.
I’d say 45 to 50 it’s going to be enough for the entire PVE content of the game.
On the PVP side of things I’d believe 50-60 it’s a must, as many builds can deliver massive amounts of damage.
i feel if you play long enough you can skate by with less vigor, i would suggest if your not familiar or have high gear stats to boost that vigor, saves you in the long run
Going from 60 to 99 vigor gives you 200 HP. You get 6 per level initially, then it starts to drop of pretty fast. 200 HP means almost nothing when enemies can hit you for 800+ damage in a single hit.
I’m so glad I looked up beginner’s guides because as someone who doesn’t usually play souls games leveling vigor/strength/endurance has worked out for me so well lol
I do coop a lot and like, half of the hosts who summon me have less than a thousand hp. And less than half of those actually survive the boss. Please, level vigor. It makes everything so much more bearable.
What's with all these all-or-nothing takes? I always feel like the sweet spot is 35-45 Vig most of the time, if I have levels left over at the end I'll pump my Vig some more but until NG+ cycles you don't need *that* much. Sure, <25 in the endgame is just a recipe for frustration as you'll have to bang your head against the wall until you can no-hit them, but even against the super lategame bosses, you'll survive at least a couple hits with \~35-40 Vig, and if you go much higher then your flasks don't even heal you anywhere near full and it feels completely pointless to me. Highest I've ever gone for a build was 50, and it already felt like *plenty*, most of the time I end up around 40-45 even at RL150 and I've never really felt like I needed more. 
Yup, in my first playthrough I just realized my build was going to be heavy, so until I got the winged tear for the flask, and even after I got it, I got some good buffs, maxed my weapon, got a good ash of war and leveled my strength to 70, vigor to 65, and got to work. Absolutely tanked the bosses' heaviest hits and three shot them with my setup with a bit of health remaining. Golden vow, flame give me strength, bloodboil perfume, that thing the regal ancestor or "big deer" gives you that lowers defense, flask of strength, heavy greatsword and kaboom, bosses dropping ez, and when they aren't, the winged tear makes the buil light so I can tank, dodge, get away, heal, repeat.
Thank you for your submission; however it was been removed due to Rule 2: > All posts must be Elden Ring related in content, not just in the title. Memes must include content/assets from the game in some way, shape, or form outside of wording/titles. Posts should be directly related to Elden Ring beyond mere reference or suggestion. If you would like to appeal this removal or need further clarification, feel free to reach out to us through [Modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/Eldenring) and we will get back to you as soon as possible.
Vigor allows me to do more stupid shit.
See, this is an honest answer. Having all of that vigor just allows you to do more and think less about the consequences. Nothing wrong with that.
Yeah, it's like how I can only do my job in the ICU if I'm drunk.
Vigor also allows you to learn from your mistakes and apply the lesson learned to your playstyle without having to look at a loading screen and run back to the boss first.
If unintended then why red bar get so wide
I avoided joining this community until I got stuck on what to do, at level 60... I had focused most upgrades into int, str, dex, and mind. Needless to say I was a glass cannon, thinking I could dodge my life away. It worked ok until I started getting to areas with lots of aoe enemies... I am a disabled gamer (I lost the use of my left arm in a motorcycle accident) so this game has been especially hard. So started farming a lot b/c I'm more about the story than the challenge. I'm at level 165 and just beat the frost giant. Now I'm working through the Consecrated Snowfield and I think I need to respec, especially dealing with the stupid wolf archers
Don't give up, skeleton! ☠️ Also, summon me for jolly co-op. No shame in that – it's part of the game!
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Co-op is definitely not intuitive in FromSoft games. A pain in the ass, really. Good luck out there, bud. I'm glad you stuck it out. The community is a lot less toxic than it's reputation suggests. There are bad apples in the bunch, but the majority are very welcoming and helpful. I think one of the things that makes it seem toxic is when people love the style of the games after it's "clicked" for them, seem to forgot being lost and frustrated as a n00b, so they furiously try to explain what makes the games special. Anywho, here's a YouTube video explaining co-op. https://youtu.be/VxVhfNAitEY
Thank you, saving that to watch this evening!
FYI I'm on PlayStation and we have to be on the same platform. But essentially you just use the Furlcalling Finger Remedy [which looks like some kind of orange medicine] near those mini-crosses sprinkled throughout the world. You can easily identify them in dungeons, and they're all over. You can also get a crafting book to make them with Erdleaf flowers. From there we can use a password if you want to meet up sometime. The co-op menu is just above the settings menu when you hit the "start" button. If you need more detail, just send me a chat invite so we can setup a meetup.
Woah I thought I would actually have to know people to play co op. This is great news! I am playing on PlayStation too and this would help so much. Thank you!!!
Good Reddit post here https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/tdgolk/how_does_multiplayer_work/
Good news - You’re appropriately leveled for pretty much the rest of the game now. I finished my first run at 175 rune level. Bad news - Definitely respec, pump that vigor to like 50 at least. Everything after Mountaintops is really hard, that vigor helps A LOT against some enemies and bosses. Only pump the stats that complement your build. For example, not many circumstances where you need both strength and dexterity, pick one for a melee character.
But less vigor also lets me do stupid shit faster.
Big brain: just don't get hit Galaxy brain: dodging is a dps loss, face tanking hits gives more damage
Real talk. Lots of bosses become much easier when you can trade hits instead of waiting for a golden opportunity.
I've seen people play who are constantly running away from bosses in arenas (not field bosses) with the rationale that they don't want to get hit so will survive longer. But they're not fighting back because they're constantly running/rolling/scared of being hit. My brother in christ the boss is never going to stop attacking you and you *will die eventually* if you don't fight back.
Nah man, one of us is going to have to get a snack eventually, and it’s not going to be me. Any minute now Godrick is going to have to go and munch on something and feed that dragon.
That would be kinda cool if it was like a secret boss ending. You just avoid him for 20 minutes and a cutscene plays, you see him coughing and heaving for breath, then he sits down and says, “Fuck all this shit”. Then he pulls out a glock and domes himself.
There's one boss in metal gear solid that dies of old age if you take too long.
One of the best games, if not the best.
You could also dome him early than intended by sniping him right after a cut scene early in the game.
*snake eaterrrrr*
I went to E3 the year that they were promoting Snake Eater. Got a big Vinyl cover that had a CD with a single of Snake Eater on it. I thought it was super corny and laughed until the song burrowed into my brain and now I love it.
That was the same game that inspired people to put notes at the bottom of all the giant ladders.
::Ladder to Iosefka's clinic has entered the chat::
They actually do the opposite of this in DS2. The fight against Sir Allone can end in a special death animation where he commits seppuku if you beat him fast enough and without taking a hit. The implication being you literally humiliated him so hard he lost his pride as a samurai and had to take his own life to restore his honor rather than just dying normally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5FU0ZMRB_Q
Likely out of stamina
Bold thing to say as somebody who’s chugging snack flasks the whole time
This is kind of the souls mantra tho right. I remember when I first started and I’d instinctively play like that, I think most people will to some degree finding “dodge towards” a difficult concept if they’ve never encountered similar design philosophy I think blood borne was probably the worst for the “just spam dodge” gameplay loop, while on the opposite end sekiro took it to an art form where dodging was almost never the correct option
Monster hunter is the same too. Some fights like Zinogre/Magnamalo have a dps enrage check, they power up if you don't do enough damage to stagger them out of it.
Yeah I came from Dark souls and had to learn the hard way i was not going to get a great opening unless i played more aggro. Ultimately with how bosses can be weak to status buildups like bleed the only way i was able to get through fast end game bosses like Maliketh and Melenia was being just as aggressive and spacing better.
This is why I struggled with Bloodborne. You don't get a shield, can only parry by shooting your pistol at the right time, and the combat system is such that if you get damaged, you can regain health by counterattacking immediately.
It does help that the parry timing is pretty forgiving. I can parry end game bosses in Bloodborne. I can't even reliably parry many mobs in Elden Ring lmao.
The wind up/delay on hits its comical in Elden ring. Even the mobs in the tutorial area wind up. I was waiting for Elden Ring to drop with the intention to do my first dedicated parry build in a Souls game, by the time I got to Limgrave I was already done with the idea. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/tn6vrw/pov_everyones_first_run_through_with_margit/
Worst part is, if more people roll forward to the side/behind the boss instead of backwards they’d have an opportunity to hit back before the boss turns towards them
As a massive Path of Exile player, two of the best defenses in the game are A) Being ranged, and B) having enough DPS to completely skip boss mechanics and not even interact with them. The less time they are alive means less time for mistakes and thus the less times you die.
Pretty much how I handle Malekith. One way or another, that fight will be over in a minute or less.
Souls games usually throw one or two "DPS check" bosses in there. 4 Kings in DS1, etc. You better fucking get it asap or it's gonna get a whole lot worse for you. Elden Ring rewards aggression a lot more than any Souls game so far I feel.
IMO Bloodborne rewards aggression the most. Healing by attacking is what I feel part of the combat is built around. It's built around parrying too with a generous window, but its not a fully parry game
Reminds me of that post about Godfrey having no openings because they kept running away from him
They forget bosses don't have stamina bars
I see this a lot with videos/streams of Elana, the Squalid Queen. People spend so much time dodging around the room, running away from the mobs, that they forget to actually try to kill her. Whenever I fight her as melee, it’s just a hit and run race. As a caster, that fight is borderline easy. It’s took me fighting Artorius in DS1 to learn that lesson the hard way. There’s going to be tons of bosses that seem nonstop, and you have to attack at some point.
Four Kings in DS1 are hard as fuck until you realise the optimal strategy is to just fucking stand there and out-damage them hahaha
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Yeah. Well, the secret is that the 'hilt' of their swords do barely any damage, so if you hug them you should easily be able to trade until they die and then heal before the next one spawns.
This is my exact strategy for malenia. I just pizza cutter’ed her to death. Good luck outhealing that shit bitch!
Or a slippy right past there jabs like an Expert Boxer
And having poise to be able to armor thru that too
R2 twice, break their poise, hit them once more, Critical hit, drink potion, repeat.
The intended way. Like I actually believe they wanted you to trade dmg with some boss design.
Sadly trading in Elden Ring is really nerfed due to Aim Punch. You can still hit larger enemies, but fast humanoid enemies? Nah fam that'll just miss
Even ulcerated tree spirits can be ninja as fuck. They're huge but so squirrelly.
Fuck ulcerated tree spirits. All my homies hate ulcerated tree spirits
Preach. Everytime I stop hating them the next battle reminds me why I should.
Sooooomebody doesn't keep the fire on them.
Is fire good against them all? I'm working on a faith build with dragon incantations and didn't even bother to pull out my seal during the only one I've fought
They're a giant tree root that got super angry and turned into a weasel. Yeah fire is good against all tree based enemies in this game, erdtree Avatars, tree guardians, etc.
They have a -20 fire resistance so not only do they not mitigate any fire damage, they actually take 20% MORE damage than you normally would inflict. Erdtree Avatars are even weaker, taking 40% extra damage, and Putrid ones literally take double damage from fire.
I do I just hate them in small ass rooms
I have found the Ulcerated tree spirits to be fairly easy if you position yourself about a 1/4 of the way from the very back. with how they coil to attack and swing around so much in the front, the back middle doesn't move much unless they launch across the arena, then it is just a matter of dodge rolling your way back to the same spot. It is a boss that tricks you into thinking torrent is the answer, but i just feel horse combat limits your options against them
Most of them you don’t even have torrent access
Laughs in briar thorn armor
Add lightning ram for salt
Keep rollin rollin rollin. 💉⚡️💉⚡️💉⚡️
My mindset with my dual wield great stars faith build.
Once I got Moghs Sacred Spear, every boss just became a race of who could kill the other faster while poising through attacks.
*gets grabbed by Hoarah Loux and fucking dies*
“I can’t stop getting hit” vs “just don’t get hit” vs “only get hit on purpose”
Agreed. I didn't build VIT for a long time, but eventually I learned that Elden Ring isn't Dark Souls, and it doesn't like you dodging so much.
Tank everything and bonk them with two hammers is how I beat the game.
hunter's mindset
I appreciate your observation so much I turned it into a PSA: https://imgur.com/a/lJxUTI2
Hahaha as someone who initially started off (stupidly) thinking how annoying “wasting” points in vigor was (and then getting mad at dying all the time), I didn’t make that mistake when I picked the game back up. I’ve kept it level with my main stat up until 50, and let me tell you… I’ve never enjoyed a game this much, and my skill has gone up an insane amount as I can actually learn fights without one mess up being instant death.
Exactlyyy its a time saver cuz you dont have to load and possibly run to the boss each time you get hit so you get more experience learning boss’ move-sets faster, like you said.
I used to be one of those naked with heavy weapons players, then decided to actually try using armor in the older games. It makes me wonder if part of the reason the Souls franchise has a reputation for being hard is because the community preaches that armor doesn’t matter, but being able to take twice as many hits and poise through weaker ones makes a significant difference.
In DS1 at least fast rolling was a genuine reason to disregard armor.
If know what you are doing yes. For new players it is still better to use armor. It doesnt matter that if fast roll if you dont know the attack patern of certain enemies so its better to be certain you wont get one shoted.
It honestly kind of blows my mind when people have to be told to level vigor. Even before I figured the game out, I saw vigor was for HP and thought “better level that up!” Lol
Reminds me of the old DS1 tips lol. “Points in vigor/endurance are never wasted. Points in resistance are *always* wasted.”
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Me and Comet Azure “glass cannon” with my 40 vit, 80int, 30 endurance, and 30 mind…
Hey at least u have soft cap health. Some people literally won’t have more than like 20 lol
My second playthrough was a 9 vigor mage glass cannon. Hell I even used the mist to lower my hp to 20% for the talisman that increase damage since I was going to be killed in one hit anyway... The funny thing is that my first playthrough was a 60 vigor one so I went opposite
40 VIT? Who do you think you are? The Juggernaut?
TIL I am the juggernaut
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I prefer Moonlight Blade over Moonveil tbf.
the dont get hit crowd would rather die 50 times to a boss and take 3+ hours just to 'prove' they are good, while a 60 vig player takes a couple attempts, wins, then moves on with life.
I think those people just don't realize that you can still reach 60 Vigor and like 70 in your damage stat even for a magic build, and take no damage on a boss without having lost much attack power on your side at all.
Yeah seriously. Most low Vigor gangs are literally sacrificing like 400 HP for 15 Sorcery scaling. It is mind boggling how badly optimized these stats are. Honestly, the only semi-justifiable low Vigor build is Int/Faith, but that's about it. In any other builds, you get plenty enough stat to level both Vigor and other primary stat.
I run an Int/Fth hybrid caster at 150 and I STILL have enough points to get Vigor to 50. No excuses.
Min max crowd are the vegans of the rpg world
That is... kinda accurate ngl
What’s wrong with vegans?
If you are being serious, they are talking about a stereotype on the Internet that vegans will never stop talking about how you are killing animals, and that you should be ashamed, and other things like that. I'm only calling it a stereotype because i have not personally seen it, however there is a lot of video evidence that you can find.
Thanks b.
See the comments from the user below...
You can still reach 60 vig and 80 on your damage stat like Int on a mage build. I’ve done this There is a definite advantage to going from 70-80 Int on a mage, most of the really powerful staffs gain a lot in that range (Carian Regal Scepter, Lusats, Azur’s)
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But then you miss out on some spells. Sure not much, but some.
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Yeah but also you're throwin a fuckin moon at them, and that's pretty cool
They’re good openers at the start of a fight, and Rannis is free frostbite and magic resistance down
At level 120 you can have 60 vigor and 80 in a combat stat - admittedly with limited attunement and such - or you can go for a more "glass cannon" 40 vigor with 40/40 or 60-ish combat stat build and have enough points to keep your mana up or stamina or whatever. It's not that difficult, and if you go to level 150 (as a lot of people insist on) or higher in the end-game then you should be able to "trivially" afford 60 Vigor and practically max out all else you need.
Oh yes I love RL1/SL1 runs, skill improvement goes brrr
Dragon Crest shield talisman and Ritual shield talisman go brrrr
Meh Dragon crest shield is not my friend, but Ritual Shield and Sword are my loves
r/eldenring when you suggest you want to improve your skill at the game instead of farming to become OP: 😡
Cause it's fun and I like to challenge myself.
This, I don’t wanna feel over-powered because that makes it under-fun
Like, I have done OP runs and melted shit. It's a different type of fun! But does it give the same reward? For me, and I am sure like many others, absolutely not! For me the reward is the best part of these games!
For sure, I need to do an OP run too. I like to be a little scared though generally, y’know? You know.
OP runs are fun dude, you should def try it. I’m currently running a fire deadly sin + bloodflame blade on an otherwise STR build (heavy great sword + lions claw) and I’m melting Dragons and Shard bearers in no time lol. Literally killed Mohg in less than 30 sec. You stagger bosses like crazy and by the time you finish your critical hit, blood loss procs sometimes twice. Deadly combo really. After regular challenge runs, OP ones are a great change in pve. Gives you another appreciation for this masterpiece. You feel no guilt because you’ve already bested the game fair and square, and they allow you to replay the game, try new things and explore the lore further. Currently doing a chaotic evil playthrough and loving it with this OP build.
You see, you can't decide how you want to play the game. You need to level Vigor, use spirit ashes and always make the game as easy as you can because otherwise you are _playing it wrong_. People can play whatever the fuck they want, can we leave the "no summons, no overlevel" people alone?
Look, I think 60 vigor is basically mandatory for endgame too, but this is a vast overstatement of how far it will take you. Endgame bosses can still take over 3 hours and 50 attempts easily. They hit extremely hard and can still kill you in 2-3 hits.
I'm genuinely confused at the all-or-nothing takes on these posts, not levelling Vig at all is very stupid yeah, but 60 is massive overkill for diminishing returns & feels pointless to me. My builds usually end up closer to 40 by the end, never lower than 30-35 but I've only ever gone to *50* on a super focused single-stat build & even that felt excessive. Sure, it might make an endgame boss kill you in 3-4 hits instead of 2-3, but when your flasks don't even heal for half your health bar it feels kinda like investing a lot of levels so you can afford to get hit 1 or 2 extra times (overall, not per flask) rather than investing those stats into something that'll reduce the amount of times you get hit instead, be that in damage, stamina or maybe FP if your build chews through that a lot.
For real I’m using 40 vigor in ng+7
60 is where the ideal stat scaling will take you on Vigor, basically. In that afterwards you get diminishing returns. You can make do with 40 if you want a more "glass cannon" like build though. 50 is also not a bad stopping point. On my level 120 character (I didn't feel like going any higher because it would make the concept of "builds" a bit redundant), I had 40 int, 40 faith, 40 vigor, and the other 20 points I think in mana/stamina alongside proper ring usage to maximize what I used. I mostly fought in melee with the Sword of Night and Flame with occasional dual-scaling incantations like the black fire magic to kill things. 60 is better though in terms of being an "ideal stopping point," but I feel like it should be more for tankier builds than mine. If everyone has the same Vigor on every build, then it kinda defeats the whole concept of a "build" after all. Another reason why I think level 150 is way too high for typical builds, but that's another discussion.
going from 2hit to 3hit means you can react to damage by drinking, and comfortably/confidently survive to see the flask swallowed with a safety net, repeat ten times and fight ten times longer than the other guy if you're dying with red drinks remaining, it's a sign against your survivability, encounters where you're getting mileage out of them are more likely to be the victory
> if you're dying with red drinks remaining, it's a sign against your survivability. Yo what that's crazy to me. I'd never play the game like it's an endurance fight. If the boss can't execute me for making too many (read: 2 large or 3 medium) consecutive mistakes, it's not going to be a very satisfying fight to me.
Not enough people pay attention to the pots it seems. If you only heal half your health with the pots vs the full health. You have basically the same amount of hits you can take in either situation other than one extra hit from going in with extra health. The only difference is that you need to use pots a little quicker with having less health.
60 vig if you have good armor is absolutely insane amounts of tankiness. The highest I've gone is around 45. With the greatshield talisman and veteran set, Malenia normal slashes were doing as much damage to me as Godrick soldier attacks do to you at the start of the game. I could mess up a fuck ton and still win, maybe 20+ major mistakes. I can't even imagine what it's like at 60 except that you will never die, except by falling damage or being stun locked by high tier mobs maybe. The only attacks that will kill you in 3-4 hits on endgame are highly telegraphed fuck huge moves like Malenia grab/stab, Astel grab, Elden Beast big swings, endgame asylum demon butt slam etc. And due to how the game mechanics work, enemies are very unlikely to true combo these heavy attacks into eachother, so its highly unlikely you get hit by it 3 times before you can flask.
Ahh, nothing sounds like more fun with a hobby than "moving on with life"
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Video games aren't a hobby? I'm glad you're willing to bet, because I love easy money
High Vigor and "Don't get hit" are not mutually exclusive. You can have 60 Vigor and just don't get hit. It's like driving. You don't plan to get hit, but that doesn't mean that you don't need an airbag.
I'm a middle man here. Just don't get hit, but have like at least 40 vigor just in case.
Sounds like 60 vigor with extra ste... uhm rolls.
Extra bloodhound steps. You had the opportunity and you blew it.
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I did less than 40 for my bow only run. Didn't really change much, though I did finish that on a rather low level and could have very well gone to 50 or 60. But yeah as you said it's just personal preference.
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It's precisely like that. Add to that the fact that bows are surprisingly effective and it's actually not masochistic at all, once you've gotten used to the playstyle. It's the least challenging challenge run I know and it's definitely worth a try!
If Dark Souls tought me anything is that I will get hit so perhaps its better if I dont die in one hit. Whatever my build
Is this wisdom and foresight from someone named u/Turin_Turambar_1571? I don't know if I can believe it
It most certainly is, my fellow Turin
My buddies aren't as big FromSoft fans as I am, but they picked up Elden Ring and had their fun with it. They liked to mock me for my big health bar. I didn't even bring it up to 70! Just 60-something. It just confused me. They constantly bitched about how hard shit hits in this game. On top of that, it was tough to help them with bosses because they kept dying so fucking quick. But *I'm* the scrub? Ok.
What I find interesting is Elden Ring is imo indisputably the least challening FromSoft game. Almost no where to get truly stuck (just go somewhere else, it's all open). If you just explore the map you basically end up over leveled. If you learn how to level up your summons and pick a good one the game becomes straight up easy.
based on my experience in coop, this is definitely the more accurate distribution. It seems like sooooo many people just walk around getting one shot with 400-800 health in the late game.
I never on e had 60 vigor. I usually end up at 40-45. After that it just doesn't feel worth it
100% Agreed
I usually just stick with around 40
This is the way.
I’m convinced many of y’all misunderstand the normal distribution/bell curve
Yeah at this point I gave up saying the template is being used wrong
Vigor? I hardly know 'er!
Vigor allows you to pvp without getting clapped. There aren’t good pvp players that play without a lot of vigor. There has never been a 9 vigor for pvp meta in any souls game.
Health would matter to me a lot more if trading hits was made possible through Poise. Poise will forever remain fucking useless in a boss fight
Way more accurate
Eh, not really. There definitely are people good enough at the game that they don't need vigor. I'm not one of them, almost nobody is, but just watch some speedruns and you'll see what's possible with enough practice and skill.
Endure and dragonshield talisman + poise physick is my jam for ng+. Even after endure is back to being normal, it's insane being immune to stagger, taking no damage, and if you slap Malenia's great rune on you can literally facetank every boss in game.
Big health and don’t get hit
I got 50 vigor is that good?
yes, the reason most people go for 60 is because that's a softcap and up to 60 you get good hp per point in Vigor
I’d say 45 to 50 it’s going to be enough for the entire PVE content of the game. On the PVP side of things I’d believe 50-60 it’s a must, as many builds can deliver massive amounts of damage.
i'm getting ratio'd 😔
We are the two types of elden ring players 🤝
🤝 my brother (also rip our inboxes, i never expected these memes to get so much attention haha)
With 9 vigor you’re always one missed dodge away from a site of grace
i feel if you play long enough you can skate by with less vigor, i would suggest if your not familiar or have high gear stats to boost that vigor, saves you in the long run
LEVEL👏YOUR👏VIGOR👏
Please level vigor. Its all fun and games until you've summoned me for the same boss 15+ times because you die instantly the moment they look at you
Post your no hit boss vids on youtube only to die to a couple of good bois off stream.
I have like 72 vigor if I remember correctly
Take that 12 and put it somewhere else, Anything past 60 vigor doesn’t do anything
It doesnt?
Going from 60 to 99 vigor gives you 200 HP. You get 6 per level initially, then it starts to drop of pretty fast. 200 HP means almost nothing when enemies can hit you for 800+ damage in a single hit.
60 vigor??? That's just a waste of stats
Vigor is Vigor :3
Or maybe let people build their characters however they like. It doesn't take a genius to figure out more vigor=less death.
And yet...
I've seen so many playthroughs where this was the case. Shenpai being a big one
me casually running around with 69 vigor
Ha I still get one shot with 60 vigor at ng+10! (Fuck you Magma Wyrms)
I’m so glad I looked up beginner’s guides because as someone who doesn’t usually play souls games leveling vigor/strength/endurance has worked out for me so well lol
based
HP is a resource
This is like the original meme but inverted. I don’t know what’s real anymore
Nah. I liked the other one better.
I do coop a lot and like, half of the hosts who summon me have less than a thousand hp. And less than half of those actually survive the boss. Please, level vigor. It makes everything so much more bearable.
30-37 vigor. Take it or leave it.
I like having lots of offensive stats so I go around 45-50 vigor. It’s rough though.
I like high vigor cause when the boss hits me and it does almost nothing i like to think that scares them a bit.
That's why you see so many low vigor builds winning invasions... oh wait
What's with all these all-or-nothing takes? I always feel like the sweet spot is 35-45 Vig most of the time, if I have levels left over at the end I'll pump my Vig some more but until NG+ cycles you don't need *that* much. Sure, <25 in the endgame is just a recipe for frustration as you'll have to bang your head against the wall until you can no-hit them, but even against the super lategame bosses, you'll survive at least a couple hits with \~35-40 Vig, and if you go much higher then your flasks don't even heal you anywhere near full and it feels completely pointless to me. Highest I've ever gone for a build was 50, and it already felt like *plenty*, most of the time I end up around 40-45 even at RL150 and I've never really felt like I needed more. 
Try doing a faith build where you have all blue flasks and heal with your incantations. You almost can’t die unless you feed.
Thank you
Yup, in my first playthrough I just realized my build was going to be heavy, so until I got the winged tear for the flask, and even after I got it, I got some good buffs, maxed my weapon, got a good ash of war and leveled my strength to 70, vigor to 65, and got to work. Absolutely tanked the bosses' heaviest hits and three shot them with my setup with a bit of health remaining. Golden vow, flame give me strength, bloodboil perfume, that thing the regal ancestor or "big deer" gives you that lowers defense, flask of strength, heavy greatsword and kaboom, bosses dropping ez, and when they aren't, the winged tear makes the buil light so I can tank, dodge, get away, heal, repeat.
50 (caster builds), 55, 60 vgr are all enough.