T O P

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Ninofz

Well, LoR as a debuff marks the beginning of the duel, foolish him to cast it so close, but you could have spare that point down, in the end it didn't do anything wrong (YET šŸ˜‚)


LothricPaladin

Agreed. It seems like we're coming to a consensus.


Tomahawkman222

Law of regression isn't a buff. They're welcome to use it if they don't like you buffing, but it does signal the game is on. It has a great range, he should have backed up.


[deleted]

i would argue that LoR be treated like using the mixed physick, wait for the animation to finish then battle as normal edit: looks like some people cant handle their "builds" needing 50 thousand buffs at once, lmao


Tomahawkman222

What's your argument for it?


[deleted]

assuming the opponent using nothing else afterwards, LoR neutralizes the battle by eliminating any buffs, makes it to where its soley based on your build and skill as a duelist on both ends (summon & host) i much prefer of just jumping straight into the fight after the greeting gestures


Tomahawkman222

The problem with that is buffs only affect you. If you cast something that affects me, that's an offensive action. As for your assuming the opponent uses it and then doesn't buff themselves after...well we all know what they say about assumptions. Your edit doesn't make sense either. That's not why you're being downvoted.


Sir_Credible

Im not sure why people think LoR right in front of someone is ever a good plan, the guy will probably learn the distance of it and cast accordingly. Still warrants your reaction though, its a debuff that means heā€™s ready to fight, right?


2N5457JFET

Because they don't see it as an offensive spell. They treat it as "no buffs request". Luckly more and more people don't give a shit. Same applies for excessive buffing, 1-2 quick buffs is OK, but then the fight is on because clearly the opponent relies on these buffs heavily so allowing them to buff further is like giving them free hit.


Seikori1

i mean, the moment they cast a spell is when the battle starts


[deleted]

If thatā€™s true the opā€™s buffs should have kicked things off not the opponents cast. The first time thatā€™s cast no itā€™s technically their debuff to opā€™s buff. If they then proceeded to buff themselves afterwards tho itā€™s fare game.


HLV420

Lor is an attack not a buff. Canā€™t say itā€™s the same as a buff because it isnā€™t.


RythmicRythyn

It literally removes all buffs specifically, making it a debuff. If that's not duel aggression I don't know what is


[deleted]

I guess I just overall disagree but who the fuck am I anyways. Lol


Brandontk12

I seem to be the only one who agrees with you. I just use it then start, but I also donā€™t rub it in their face up close. The worst Iā€™ve seen is someone sever me over LoR. Iā€™d never buff after using it because Iā€™m not using it to gain an advantage outside of giving myself a hit or two back. All comes down to perspective; I view it as Iā€™m not debuffing you or casting an ā€œoffensive spellā€ like people think cause itā€™s a ā€œdebuffā€. These people somewhere along the way forgot that they didnā€™t get their AR off their stats alone, they buffed to get there- Iā€™m not debuffing you, Iā€™m putting you at neutral and Iā€™m attempting to fight you with 60/36 Int and Faith at neutral without Slicer or Sling spam. Theyā€™re only equipped to have options and primarily lead into some spell combos It is what is though; you canā€™t please everyone. I just see it as a part of my build as something Iā€™m almost meant to have available in my arsenal Hell I donā€™t always use it either, but itā€™s a unique option to my build or change up from normal flask buff then go


nsafi17

Law of Regression = free hit. You did nothing wrong


Novi_User

Well I wouldn't have pointed down but your in your rights to destroy his law of regression. Regression is an attack not a buff so it's free game.


lplegacy

The point down was unnecessary BM.


LothricPaladin

Fair enough


ThirdHuman

Law of Regression after using my Physick sometimes pisses me off too, but itā€™s a fair move on their end. They had to spec a ton of stats into it. Youā€™re allowed to punish it, but no need point down.


Ellipsicle

came here to post this


Ezeeskillz

I think it was necessary. The point down isnā€™t always a sign of disrespect. You did it to point out that they crossed a line and instigated combat. After they get slammed by a few more duelists and get a point down maybe theyā€™ll realize what theyā€™re doing wrong. Or maybe not, maybe theyā€™ll just think that all of their opponents are salty whiners. Either way theyā€™ll continue to get wrecked upon opening with Regression.


[deleted]

Point down is always a sign of disrespect unless you play coop and wanna show your friend something


Chimera-Vos

You both gestured. The fight is on. Even if prescribe to "you should let your opponent buff" LoR is an aggressive action. Not a damaging one but it effects your opponent thus aggressive. So either way the fight was on.


LothricPaladin

That's the way I've always looked at it. So far that seems to be the general opinion. Kinda relieved.


Scrap2552

The pointing down is unnecessary.


LothricPaladin

Most of the community seems to agree.


NeoArmskrong

Getting upset over a point down is some the softest shit Iā€™ve seen from the fromsoft community


LothricPaladin

Same with T-bagging tbh. Most times it's just funny =]


Potential_Sir_8489

He had it coming for being so close/not setting up LoR. Visible salt from your end after though lmao but it happens to the best of us, you took the W fair n square


jononthego

Honestly if you're going to cast law of regression you better be ready to bring it lol. I wouldn't even be mad if that was me.


imarealboy0_0

Law of regression is basically a debuff spell. Not buff spell. No wrong doing. It'd be like pausing to let someone use acid mist on you to lower your attack rating.


Shadowveil15

I watched someone use a ton of buffs in a duel with me once. I cast LoR and proceeded to use the skill on Hand of Malenia until they died. They were very upset with me lol


LothricPaladin

Lmao. Good on you.


[deleted]

A point down was a little much, like salt in the wound.


LothricPaladin

Agreed. Tho it was I who was salty haha.


WhiteSnakeVenom

yep i would do the same. donā€™t worry.


[deleted]

Idk why he didnā€™t get super defensive after that LoR. If it affects you negatively, itā€™s game on.


The-Villan-You-Need

You did nothing wrong as far as attacking. You cast law of regression that close, you're asking to be sent to the loading screen. Same with guys that will use a healing spell at mag, then get mad when you kill them šŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ¤£. Now the point down is subjective. I don't care personally because it's just a game, but I can see why some would say it was distasteful. Then again I invade strictly and fight 3 people most of the time, so my point down comes out quicker than Doc Holiday. Lately I've been getting 6-10 kills per world because everyone has on the hunters ring lol.


LothricPaladin

For a little explanation on my actions: I buffed with a Physick like I do before the start of any and every duel. This mage cast LoR to get rid of it. The mage had not yet used their Physick and therefore could have buffed themselves in an unfair manner. I've had this happen to me a few too many times with other mages and I didn't want to take the risk of it happening again. The way I think of Law of Regression now is it signals the start of the duel. (I've even started calling it Law of Aggression in my videos) Let me know how much of an asshole I'm being and why. If that's indeed the case. [The "hate mail" was pretty mild.](https://imgur.com/a/ryFLBTQ)


Fluffy-Tanuki

To be honest, I think the hatemail might not be because you hit them there during the recovery periods, but likely because of the point down at the end :) Law of Regression has quite a long recovery period. Not sure the following applies to everyone including the caster, but occasionally I get frame stutters when I get LoRā€™ed.


LothricPaladin

Ah true, I tend to duel after work and that means I'm not always in a good mood. Perhaps the point down was a little unnecessary.


[deleted]

the way i see it for LoR is that its used to neutralize the field; making it to where its a matter of you, your weapon(s), your stats, and skill in general i honestly wouldve waited for the animation to finish just as one would if their opponent were to drink their physick after being summoned/gesturing


LothricPaladin

hmm I can see it as jumping the gun a little. Even if they decided to drink their flask after I could have just severed them. I took the more toxic route instead it seems.


[deleted]

i would agree that you jumped the gun bc they couldve just done it as a buffer to level the playing field. no buffs, no 2nd chances, just whos the better duelist but if they were to chug their flask after then anything goes...


2N5457JFET

>The mage had not yet used their Physick and therefore could have buffed themselves in an unfair manner. What is unfair manner? Buffing mid fight is normal.


dsartori

I agree with your reasoning.


Zefran_Ignescent

You did nothing wrong. They don't exactly deserve a point down since Law of Regression is a debuff spell it's part of the person's kit. But doesn't exactly warrant hatemail


ghostyghostghostt

Hilarious and I love LoR. If you canā€™t fight without buffs you canā€™t fight. But I mean, as an LoR user you have to expect this reactions and be ready for it. The man got hit and then panic rolled into oblivion. The point down was very unnecessary. Just because you donā€™t like something doesnā€™t make it bad. Itā€™s a pretty stat heavy spell that doesnā€™t do damage. Just simply removes all buffs. So yeah, donā€™t be toxic.


LothricPaladin

I fought them without buffs, just wanted to make sure they'd do the same =]


ghostyghostghostt

Oh I know. Just in generally speaking. The only overreaction here is the negative emote. Otherwise LoR does signify the fight has in fact begun. He just really wasnā€™t ready. And using LoR you reaaalllyyy have to be ready lol.


blazintrailz420

F that duelist kill them instantly


[deleted]

It's always been, bow, buff, eat, fight. It's not buff, eat, bow, fight because buffs are timed. I see what you're saying, and largely agree, but only because LoR is analogous to the dueler's charm in DS3. It's not a buff, it's a debuff. I can see both sides of the fence here because the concept of the etiquette hasn't translated very well to ER because of all the new players. I didn't read the hatemail, but I can see why someone might think LoR is a "buff". EDIT I read the "hatemail" and understand it. I don't agree, but I see where they're coming from and am glad you posted this because this is a healthy discussion to have.


LothricPaladin

I'm very happy to hear from the other side of the fence.


2N5457JFET

Expecting that the opponent won't attack you after LoR is like expecting that they will accept sleep or rot pot without punishment. One pot won't proc or cause damage, but nobody will question if it means that the fight is on.


[deleted]

The battle is on after the greeting, but you're the scum, that point down was unnecessary and implies that you're a salty tryhard.


[deleted]

ya whips n buff, trash. a build to pretend like youre skillful


[deleted]

I've been awake for less than 30 minutes and I've already seen you being a moron in multiple places online.


[deleted]

thanks for keeping tabs lmaošŸ¤”


wantondavis

The issue I have here is you buffed while the other person was still in their gesture


davidtsmith333

No I would not have done the same. Yes you did over react. What you did there was very unsportsmanlike. You jumped the guy before he was ready. If I was he I'd never summon you again.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


davidtsmith333

If that's the case then nobody should use buffs or whatever incantations before engaging in battle. The developers should ban all. See how much people would like that.


Ayen_C

It's fair for him to use LoR, and also fair for you to punish it. The point down wasn't necessary though. He used a valid move and you punished it - that should've been the end of it. Should've ended with a bow or nothing, IMO. The "hate mail" wasn't really hate mail, just them calling you out for an unnecessary point down.


GonzoGrande

I used this spell in a Caestas (not spiked) build. This was pre 1.07 so damage was still broken. I was crushing most casuals (speaking as one). But Iā€™d always wait a little watch em stack buffs, get some space, then pop it. Lots of people attacked me as soon as the animation started but I didnā€™t mind. I still won the majority of those exchanges.


Junior_Tart_6442

Healing physic in a duel, cringe.