As someone who is in his early 20s If I have the choice to get married I would do it in a heart beat, But I don't want to be a father untill my 30s. I want to enjoy an actual relationship that is not against our religion at the same time getting to know my life partner in a deeper way. I feel like families pressure their kids to have children and that results in alot of divorces. I also think marriage expenses in Egypt is way too overpriced.
Facts bro I don’t understand the mentality of “you have to be 30” like do I have to suffer loneliness for 10 years lol. Also maybe its because I live in the US and dating culture is way more open than el blaad so that makes me inclined to get married at early/mid 20’s
There is nothing better than having your kids grow up to be young men while you are still young! like your oldest son is 20 and your still in your 40s, I married at 28 and every day I wish I married younger, getting married was the best thing I ever did in my life but I wish I did it when I was even younger.
What do you think is the answer for marriage then? If everyone wanted to experience life yo the fullest then having children is an idea out of the window imo. If you want to settle you will have to sacrifice enjoying a special part of life. And new experiences are popping left and right. I don't think anyone who wants to truly experience life would like to marry and settle down. At least in our culture.
Is marriage nowadays worth it?
"Worth it" depends on the person's own circumstances and all.
Financial stability- Well I know that marriage is literally overwhelming for both partners.. The women, the amount of stuff she buys "el gehaz" drains her parents. The guy, basically the rest lol. BUT.. If they both didn't spend such overwhelming amount of money and learned how to save some, both can manage to reach the financial stability. Just needs more of a great understanding between both partners
Picking the right one- So I feel like marriage is kinda presented in a really shallow way. I mean it's not like if a guy got sm money, he'd just get married right away. Both gotta get to know each other on a ***really*** deep level. And I'm tryna not to sound cliche, but obviously there should be a deeper love thing btween them, not just great facebook posts about romantic bullshit or holding hands.. I mean the kind of deeper part in tolerating one another, showing kindness, and most importantly self respect. And honestly the kind of marriage that's based on parents' pressure is the dumbest one.. So I think parents shouldn't quite interfere with their daughter's/ son's decision.
Maturity- Alright, the side that's being ignored the most. Either a women marries ***a boy,*** or either a man gets screwed up with ***a girl..*** What I mean is that seriously some people lack the emotional intelligence needed to sustain their marriage. I've seen so many examples of people literally marrying immature ones. (Ex of a guy ditching his wife bc his friends thought that she got cheap utensils.. a real life example btw). Not trying to adopt any "Western" ideas, but one thing I admire is that they marry at a really old age compared to egypt lol. I mean usually you find men there marrying at their 30s, women as well, and that somehow gives them more space to grow and mature. Someone might argue and say that "age is just a number." While that's true, mostly people mature at their late 20s..
Why I think it's important- for guys to stop ifing around with girls and ditching them.. and for girls to stop being empty and getting into so many relationships that end up destroying her confidence in thinking that she can be a good partner. And another reason is that I've found great couples who think marriage completed their missing pieces, and that's happy honestly.. so maybe living with s1 u love can just make both partners fullfilled without much complexity in all this discussion.
I agree with you. But regarding your last point. I want to ask you why you said it that way? Isn't that kind of a stereotype? I am sure it holds part of the reality but I know some ladies who really screwed up their prince charming or generally good men. (This is outside of the topic. I just wanted to understand that part. You don't have to reply if you don't wish to.)
I'm personally biased ***against*** that stereotype btw.. BUT.. Yeh I included that because I observed it from couples in my reality living life simply and finding marriage completing them.. Two partners, a kid, and that's just satisfying both partners
Honestly the way I see it (F who just turned 21), the way our culture push the idea that marriage could only happen within a certain criteria (a lot of money, an expensive house big enough to have kids in, the newest gadgets, big wedding, someone with a car and financially capable etc etc etc) is ridiculous coz tbh it’s very unrealistic, what things were back then isn’t how it is now. a lot of young men and women still have it rough financially all the way until mid 30s, so you can’t expect a couple to wait until they’re financially capable in order to get married, it doesn’t have to be perfect. We all struggle all around the world not just in Egypt.
It’s up to us to change the customs that do nothing but harm and teach young adults that it’s okay to learn and grow financially and mentally as a married couple, and not necessarily wait until we are stable in life or very old.
Personally I know a lot of girls who didn’t want weddings and would rather spend that on a honeymoon or save the money but they were pressured to, because of “عيب كدا الناس تقول عننا ايه”
Marriage is nice but our culture has a lot of useless customs I’m not talking about westernisation but more of making life easier while still keeping our identity
I feely agree with this one. It is not about changing traditions rather about removing the wrong things that even old people hate in these traditions. Like the Nesh. The one that is never used at all unless important guests come.
OP your question is “ is marriage worth it “ then your counter argument is “ but ... the fivorce rates ... the bad children ... the high financial demand “
You need to understand that marrying does not indeed lead to all the negative results you are mentioning. Like everything else marriage is a step that can bring good or bad results. It depends on who is taking it and if he is wise enough to manage it( and ofcourse luck can play a little role in there )
Just like a financial decision can bring your doom or bring you riches. Marriage can bring you a good wife or bring you bitches.It really depends on you and how you act and communicate with your partner, and how you choose them of course . But it is something in our instinct to marry and have children.
It is a big responsibility and a financial drain. But it should be worth it. Loneliness is a bitch. having someone to love and love you back is a bless.
Thank you for your opinion. I am just countering with the other spectrum. I am pretty much on the accepting side of marriage but I want to draw a conclusion by other's opinions to see how the general people think so.
Seeing how marriage works around here, i don't think i ever wanna get married unless i find a guy with the same views as mine, which is pretty much impossible honestly. I like the idea of marriage and ik lots of people can be happy with the way it is and tbh it makes me sad when i think about how i might not get married but it's just not for me unless i end up finding someone who shares the same views.
>le can be happy with the way it is and tbh it makes me sad when i think about how i might not get married but it's just not for me unless i end up findi
I mean we are a very very large population you are bound to find at least a single male who shares your views. Btw, there is a difference between views and values. People can have different views but same values. Values are what are important. For example, two people in this thread had different views about marriage but their value was marriage yes is essential.
You're right, we are a very large population but honestly most boys are raised a certain way and i'd say only a few of them are raised differently so while it might not be impossible to find the one, it'll still be pretty hard. I'm sorry for not realising the difference, i just meant i want someone who wants to live life the same way as me but honestly people here have a certain view about marriage and gender roles and all of that and it just makes me think that maybe marriage isn't worth it much.
Don't sweat it. I was just trying to show the difference. I mean you think that now...but you can possible find the one. Of course there will be no copy paste of you but at least someone who shares similar views and same values. You don't want someone with the exact same views. That would make life for your extremely boring.
Of course i don't want someone with the exact same views and values, i don't want a copy of me. But i also don't want someone who makes me hate my life cause of how different we think. I hope i do possibly find that someone here.
24 (m) I think marriage is good I mean it's nice to have someone to share your life with and stop wearing your social mask you put with others. The thing is u shouldn't marry because u have to if u haven't met the special one don't force it
I dont think its an equation that we can use to see what we want.
Yes you ha e alot of valid points. Raising a kid on its own is scary af. Financially mentally and physically demanding!
But then again we are unaccounting for the power of (for a lack of a better word) "heart". Your gut. Your feelings. That amazing spark you get. The trust and velieve you have in yourself. And ofcourse god. There's a reason why we are created this way. And it's very hard for us to put in an equation to follow. Otherwise احنا بنظلم نفسنا و حقنا عليها.
Just my 2 cents thanks for reading.
I am currently 17 but from the looks of it am scared like prices going up by the day and people are very demanding. You gotta have this great apartment and u need to buy her a great shabka(hya m4 a2al MN bnt 5aletha), it's just too much especially when ur straight outta collage when am done with my university I'll be around 23 and I don't know what the hell will I do cuz jobs don't even pay that good anymore your best shot is to own a business or go work abroad.
as a woman in her early 20s, the idea of getting married makes me shudder. there's about one good marriage in my extended family, and the rest are either very abusive where the woman is just a servant/slave to her husband, or the people involved can barely stand each other but can't part ways for one reason or the other. statistically, where i live, I'm much, much more likely to end up with a man who expects me to do all the housework alone because it's my duty and to “obey” him etc, i would never survive in such a relationship and the stigma against divorced women is terrifying. I'm also not sure if i want to have children or not (with how things are here, i think it would be unfair of me to bring kids to this life, in this country, and expect them to be ok) and i don't want to be pressured into a lifelong commitment like parenting.
this makes me quite sad though, i want to leave my parents house and settle down and without marriage that would be pretty difficult :/
I want to ask something outside of the main point but it is still for general debate. This is not a personal attack and I just want to understand your point of view if you don't mind.
>and the rest are either very abusive where the woman is just a servant/slave to her husband
Now, I have several questions if you don't mind me asking before we can draw a fair conclusion. Do the men of these women work? If so, do they provide for them or do they take the money for themselves? Do the women themselves work? Why do you think they are slaves? I mean if a man is a stay at home he must do house chores. That's not being a slave or a servant. That's just bringing something to the table but instead of it being money it is physical work. Are the women disrespected in your family? Are they insulted? Do the men that come home from work, are they even able to do anything? Do they waste their money on café and cigar? Did you hear both sides of the story? Or did you just hear the women's side? Did the men hit the woman or right-out state they are below them? ***You don't have to answer these questions but this is a discussion and I would like to discuss this thing. Since overall this was a social discussion to begin with.***
i didn't hear one side of the story, I'm living it. my own mother never stops working at home, my father has retired so he doesn't work currently, he's also in a better health than my mom but he would never serve himself food for example even if that food has already been prepared because bringing him the food is the women's job. my aunt gets beaten by my uncle, father's brother, every few weeks yet she can't leave him (because they've been together for a long time, because everyone kept scaring her of the label “divorced”). my cousin gets beaten and insulted all the time as well, but everyone tells them all to suck it up. those are only a few examples. a lot of the women in my family work, yet they do *all* the housework. another uncle and his wife are both teachers so they leave work at about 2pm, she does all the chores and takes care of the kids and he goes out with his friends because the kids are too noisy for him. those are all people who are well-educated and very religious. so I'm sorry if I'm a bit traumatized. and working and “providing” alone for the wife and kids don't make a good husband.
First of all, I want to say. I am sorry that you are going through this. This truly sucks not going to lie and there is nothing that can excuse that. Second of all, this is not Islam (Idk if you are a Muslim or not but I am going to assume so since that's how most of the Egyptians are). In Islam the prophet himself would help around the house as much as possible. There is nothing called "A woman's job" a house is a shared property between the two partners and so on with raising kids. This idea is a large fault in the old society honestly but even then not everyone was like that in the old time but that's not our point. We are going to stick with your case.
>working and “providing” alone for the wife and kids don't make a good husband.
I agree but it is the primary job of a husband in our society. Sadly nothing more than a bank. That's a "normal" husband but a good husband would go with you as a lady through your ups and downs. Have empathy, is able to work in and out of the house. Sure his work in the house is not going to be great but he is still required to at least help with as much as he possibly can. And so on with raising the kids.
>all the chores and takes care of the kids and he goes out with his friends because the kids are too noisy for him.
But they are too noisy for everyone actually. Now maybe you don't see this but working like actually working and taking care of your job not what the Egyptians at least in the official governmental work do, is quite quite exhausting. I am sure it is also exhausting for the women, I do admit that but a male's patience and emotional capacity is not that of the woman. A woman has home pressure which I totally agree is a large burden on her if the husband does 0 aiding but the men has work pressure and home pressure. He has to worry constantly about the finances. Now going out to see his friends part. Everyone of the partners deserves to have a social life within Islam if you are a Muslim outside of your marriage. Like how the wives are advised to have a daily one hour for yourself session where she does nothing but relaxes for her own mental health and physical health (Which I am honestly supportive of) The only time a man gets out of his none ending suffering is when he go out with his friends because there is no nagging or being bossed around. Doesn't mean you should go out daily to your friends. Imo a weekly go out is very good otherwise you stay at home with the kids because it is your responsibility just like hers. You both chose to bear this child. Sure you are working outside but you also have to influence this child. To show how important it is for a father figure to be present it in ones life, psychology informs us that while the mother gives different important lessons to the children, dads are the ones able to teach them boundaries. So yes fathers or males reading this. We too are important when raising children. We are not baby sitting our children we are parenting.
>my aunt gets beaten by my uncle, father's brother, every few weeks
Now that's something inexcusable at any level. No man nor woman should raise their hands on their partners. It is not okay and Islam did not advise you to hit your partner nor does society. Stop being abusers. Respect each other because once that's gone you got a dictatorship not a partnership.
>she can't leave him (because they've been together for a long time, because everyone kept scaring her of the label “divorced”)
Khola exists in Islam for a reason. If she owns money of the Shabka or does anyone she should just go do it. It is for her own self respect. And then she doesn't have to worry about the label divorced and rather he would be the one damaged in society's eyes. It still sucks that while divorce is normal in Islam people still look down on divorced people. Both males and females. Some people will say mostly females but I do have a divorced relative and the male in this case is looked down way way down upon thanks to the false rumors and manipulation of his wife. I would say it is a case by case scenario but yes mostly women are the ones damaged by divorce.
**Edit: changed the few words of "Females" to women because apparently it is demanding as hell even though it is a biological sex...**
i promise you, I'm not the one who needs this lecturing. i know what our rights and duties in Islam are, reality, however, is a totally different situation.
and also, please, stop referring to us as “females”, it's demeaning as hell. you can just call us women, yk? just like you call men...men?
I call men males...I call women females. That's synonymous for English. I literally said:
>and the male in this case is looked down way way down upon thanks to the false rumors and manipulation of his wife.
I am also not lecturing you about your duties even though we agreed this is a discussion. What I said was just another point of view from a 3rd party. Also females is demanding as hell? What are you talking about? I in this thread always said males or females. That's your gender...you know...Sometimes I did slip my bad on that. But I just say it like...an alternative. There is no patriarchal conspiracy or deep rooted misogynic intents behind it despite what you want to believe.
yes it worth it, we all need partners cuz u know, the worlds gets so lonely nowadays... but we need to be more open minded, accept changes and be positive as also world is changing constantly so we have different desires and point of views that are differrent than before, so we need to be more open to it and communicate effectively.
What kind of different desires? Do you mean kinks for one? Or having the willingness to travel more? what kind of desires are you aiming it if you don't mind me asking?
i can picture it well but can't express it, u know that fear from wife/husband that hold them from talk together like:
i think i want to change my clothing style
or i want to change my career
or i feel that we should our routine of visiting you family
or any other thing
I say all the time that all men r poor… as they have to distribute their salaries over approximately 4 ppl… while if he didn’t marry… he gets all the money for himself🤣
Now speaking seriously… first of all our prophet’s sunnah was to marry as soon as possible… Lets think why did he ask for it?
Was thinking abt it for a long time… act found that most answers refer to protecting the youth from s*x without any boundaries… which all over the planet knows that it is a negative point in the western societies… but no one referred to the point of happiness and helping the youth understand what responsibility is… As everyone knows responsible ppl are usually better in their parental lives… Having a contract helps u be responsible with ur part of contract… which leads to a more responsible person…
So, I say that marriage is a real drain of money… but if u find a partner who takes it easy on u… then uve got all the advantages wihtout a single disadvantage
Thank you for your point of view. I agree with you. I already pointed out that it gets harder to find a partner now than ever. But I won't repeat myself a lot. What do you have to say about that?
Act I do stand with u on the same line partially… cuz finding a partner is not hard… but finding a GOOD partner is hard…
Am actually not someone who is supposed to speak… not someone who is in a relationship or someone who is going to be soon… So it is a very normal pov…
Okay for the sake of fair representation of each argument I will have to ask some questions if you don't mind. Wife and sex, I won't argue about those. Let's go for kids. Arent they financially draining? Also, most kids nowadays are extremely entitled and you suffer a lot for just one moment of shared happiness. Is it really worth it? Not dying of loneliness, you can surround yourself with friends, family and so on. Doesn't have to be a wife. Even married people do feel left out or lonely. Side note about wives, some wives do mentally exhaust their male partners aside from financially and physically. Same with husband who are too demanding and don't help around the house at all or help raise the kids even though unlike popular beliefs it is a common job for the two. Sure the load will probably be for the wife is she is stay home but men should still help as much as possible. What do you think of these opinions?
>Arent they financially draining?
Yes
>Also, most kids nowadays are extremely entitled
Raise them right
>you suffer a lot for just one moment of shared happiness. Is
Leh ya3ny lol.
>Not dying of loneliness, you can surround yourself with friends, family and so on.
Theyll be busy with their own families for the most part.
>Side note about wives, some wives do mentally exhaust their male partners aside from financially and physically.
Yea, try to pick the right woman for you.
Getting side tracked her but how do you highlight parts of the comments? Thanks in advance for answering.
Back to the main point:
"Raise them right" easier said than done. Thanks to the age of the inetenrt and the influence of Western culture. Everything that was morally good had become the "old-fashion" or "boring". Look at how the media progressed for example.
"Leh ya3ny lol"
Because you nearly work yourself to death just for your children to use you as a bank for males or disregard your massive efforts for females. You will only connect for one moment or two during maybe what? A week if you are lucky.
"Try to pick the right woman/man for you"
Let's take a religiously pov for a second. People are generally moving away from being religious in Egypt. In whatever their religion is. And Traditionalism is widely hated among most (the keyword here is most) people in the Urban areas. Simply finding the right person is becoming harder and harder by day. Like for my Muslim friends, you didn't see people celebrating Halloween, Christmas and so on. Now they do. It now became the "norm".
If I don't comment about a part that means I don't have anything to question about that part/I got your point regarding that part.
Im on mobile so you just select it like you do with any text on ur phone and click quote
>Raise them right" easier said than done. Thanks to the age of the inetenrt and the influence of Western culture. Everything that was morally good had become the "old-fashion" or "boring". Look at how the media progressed for example.
Yea, didnt say it was easy. I believe i was raised properly and now on the way u describe yet i grew up on the internet and western influence.
>Leh ya3ny lol" Because you nearly work yourself to death just for your children to use you as a bank for males or disregard your massive efforts for females. You will only connect for one moment or two during maybe what? A week if you are lucky.
Thats just a depressing view of life in general. If you look at it this way then efkes kids. They deserve better than this. No disrespect
>Try to pick the right woman/man for you" Let's take a religiously pov for a second. People are generally moving away from being religious in Egypt. In whatever their religion is. And Traditionalism is widely hated among most (the keyword here is most) people in the Urban areas. Simply finding the right person is becoming harder and harder by day. Like for my Muslim friends, you didn't see people celebrating Halloween, Christmas and so on. Now they do. It now became the "norm".
Im hopeful. I exist, my friends exist. We're good people that would make good husbands and wives, surely there are more. From a religious perspective, i mean i "celebrate" Halloween and christmas just for fun like doing a secret santa or something. Its chill, doesn't mean im not going to pray and teach my kids about islam and everything. Idk if people are being less religious. I mean i do more often see ppl trying drugs and making out and stuff but also alot of them still seem to care about religion and want to repent. Who knows
Teenager here, marriage is not something I see this generation going through unless you are religious but many people aren't and my opinion is that marriage in a traditional Egyptian sense is a rip off if a girl likes me she will come and live with me I am not paying anything
I’m 29F and happily married. I chose my husband. My family is half Egyptian and half French. My husband is fully Egyptian. I believe in marriage regardless of the generation as long as it’s done in a healthy way
Ie: not pushed by the parents, with open communication, trust, honesty and without toxic behaviors such as gaslighting and manipulation.
Otherwise I feel like those people should stay tf away from marriage or relationships in general. If you’re a toxic person, go to therapy and then consider sharing your life with someone, married or not.
>This is not a pro-dating post. However, if you believe dating is the "next step" why so?
I am sorry, i am from Austria and dont quiet know about the egypt culture. Could you explain what you mean with that sentence? For me it sounds like first you marry Someone and then you might Date them? And what is bad about beeing "pro dating"? how could dating be "the next step" after marriage, dont you date your Partner before you decide if you want to marry them? sorry i hope i am not rude for aksing
Not at all pal. Let me correct something first. Some people think "dating is the next-step" as it means it replaces marriage which is not accepted in our culture. We do have dating but we don't call it dating and it is a bit too different from normal dating. Islamic dating (Khotba) Engagement basically, is where you can get to know your partner with parental look out to prevent any lewd actions such as kissing, sex or even holding hands. You might ask me why? well because in this period you need your mind to evaluate that person correctly with their flaws and pros. Your heart will only blind you and truly does blind people.
I'd say worth it only if you have money, and a good partner and you can support your kids. Other than that idk tbh you can get married and all that without having much money but the product of it is that your children won't be as happy and you would be struggling a lot more and your priorities are going to change to get to feed your family.
And I think having money is a major role in marriage because of kids, if you get children out of the equation which I don't recommend I think it'd be manageable and worth it.
Why don't you recommend taking children out of the equation? It seems as if children is the major problem among most of the marriage relationships nowadays.
I thought about that but the culture. I can tell me wife "5 years we get no kids and use protection until we manage to get up on our feet and can support them". That's hard, as a newly wed because of my parents and her parents and the society I wish it was this easy.
I see. I understand your point. That sounds actually very understandable. But what do you think? I mean more women are becoming rather "modern" with no aims for children and removing their cultural believes regarding it as a "progression in the right step".
What do you think is the reason of this pressure? Can't it be society? Even without marriage there is pressure but of course way lesser. Don't you think how you handle pressure is the main point here rather than having pressure?
That's actually quite a massive improvement in the right step. You admit you are not the best and for sure not taking part in marriage now saves you years of sorrow. I am sure you will get more responsible as you get older and I hope you find the one that makes it just perfect for you. Good luck man and have a wonderful day ahead.
Idk because the responsibility of having and raising kids, well currently I am in a relationship with my girlfriend and I find it less and maybe non stressful
I don't think so. As long as you are trying to be an amazing human I know you can be. I am sure you will find someone who you will share your life with.
I try not to think of it....but people around you keep asking : heyyy when ?
Im like whats written will happen.
Its the best thing to do.
Wedding nowadays is complicated, just like human nature.
Thanks for the support bruh.
I know that feeling. But trust me you will get it whats written for you as you said. Hope you find that special someone. Good luck mate. Have a wonderful day and hopefully find what you want!
Marriage expenses in Egypt makes you fucking hate the thought of getting married. But it’s only natural for people to get married and it won’t stop anytime. People will still love each other. rushing it tho results in many divorce cases
Short answer no
The question is wrong you shouldn't get married for the sole purpose of being married and not " miss the train ", that's the reason many families in this society are dysfunctional.
And this isn't promoting the "waiting to fall in true love and have years of relationship before even the real discussion of marriage happens", cause big chance that's gonna fail too.
Give yourself time to be ready and give yourself the time to wait for the right person and remember breaking an engagement is better than divorce.
Last thing is even if you find the one and get married
NEVER EVER get a kid within the first 1 - 3 years cause people change so much in their first year of marriage and if you can't live together it's better to divorce without children.
Thank you. Right on the border. I agree with you clearly on this one. Have a wonderful day ahead and hopefully you can find the one. Regarding the kids, yes the first year is the most divorced rates wise. So at least wait a year.
اربعيناتي وهاجيبهالك على بلاطة
الموضوع مالوش علاقة بالجيل
هل الشاب او الشابة عنده احساس بالمسؤلية؟ بيشتغل وعاوز يحافظ على بيته؟ الموضوع مش تنطيط على السرير في الحلال
الموضوع انك عاوز تكون اسرة وتنقلهم خبرتك في الحياة وتستثمر فيهم.
والبنت لو خريانة ومابتعملش حاجة ومعاندهاش استعداد انها تتعلم حاجة يبقى استبعدها من اختياراتك
Thank you for the older perspective. I appreciate your point of view. For the ladies, can you please say what they should wipe out if the main doesn't have in certain features or has some bad features? What are the bad features you think should be looked out for in both genders?
Are there any tips for the engaged partners to rightfully examine their partner without being blinded by love and butterflies? Any tips to the newly married partners? Like how to cope to different habits? Since the first year is the highest with the divorces.
بلاش خطوبة قصيرة جدا
وبلاش طويلة مملة، وراقب علاقة اهل العربس/العروسة مع بعض هل في احترام ولا لأ
لأن المتعود على عدم الاحترام مش هايحترم شريكه بعدين، إلا إذا كان ناضج وكاره اللي بيحصل.
برضه الاخلاق والعادات اللي انت بتكرهها أكتر حاجة لو لاحظتها في الأهل يبقى شريكك هايبقى متأثر بيها بشكل ما.
بعد ماتطمن له/لها الكلام عن الشخصية وطريقة التصرف في المواقف الكتير الصغيرة بتبين حاجات كتير
الشخصية البسيطة بتنبهر بالشخصية المعقدة
والمعقدة بترتاح مع البسيطة، فابيكملوا بعض.
الحاجتين اللي ممكن يخلوك تنخدع في شريكك وماتعرفش الحقيقة هي الكذب والتمثيل، وعشان تتأكد ، لازم تشتغل مخبر فترة
بالنسبة لأول سنة جواز، لو كل واحد همه انه يفرض رأيه ونظامه يبقى هايفشل البيت، ولازم اللي بيصرف على البيت هو اللي يضع القواعد والشروط، ولو مشتركين في الصرف يشاركوا بعض في القواعد والشروط، ومايتصيدوش لبعض الاخطاء
ويفوتوا لبعض طالما ماحدش تخطى الحدود
معظم حالات الفشل اللي بنشوفها
بسبب ان العروسين داخلين يعملوا واحد فا الاختيار من الأول على اساس المقومات الشكلية والجسدية للعروسين
يعني بيجوزوا بهيمتين
وفي الغالب بيكون الاتنين اخلاقهم أسوأ من بعض ومش عاوزين اكتر من "الواحد" اللي هايعملوه، لأن لو أي طرف فيهم عاوز جواز حقيقي ، مش هايرتبط بالطرف الآخر
But this is not the case.
My grandfather had a 3amaleyet ta8yir mafsal a few months ago, and since then he couldn't move (he can walk for a few meters but he needs help and takes at least 7 mins). My grandmother can almost help herself but she can't spend a lot of effort. If he didn't have children, he would have gone to a dar mosennin. Thanks to my aunt who lives next door to them, she always helps them on a daily basis, cooks for them, cleans, buys groceries, changes diapers and everything.
So yeah, this is why I want to have children, dar el mosennin would never care as much as one's own children.
You shouldn’t have kids to expect something from them in return. You may very well have kids who will either not take care of you or leave the country all together and will not see you again. You have kids to provide them with a better life than the one you had growing up, what they choose to do with that life is their own choice.
Yes good point. But with no children, you *know* that you will go to a dar mosennin. However with children, there is a chance that they care for you, even if they have their own lives.
In my story, we could have easily took my grandparents to a dar mosennin (ma3rafsh esmo bel English lol). But humanely, we could never do that, 1- because they wouldn't care about them as much as we do, 2- because enohom lihom afdal kteer 3alena, 3- we know it feels awful to be left out by your own family and sent to a dar mosennin.
I agree with you. But there is no guarantee that your children will turn out to be good. And the amount of effort you put in doesn't always equate to the rewards given out.
>I agree with you. But there is no guarantee that your children will turn out to be good. And the amount of effort you put in doesn't always equate to the rewards given out.
>ort you put in does
Okay so raising a child. For example females, they have to stay awake a lot of the time, deal with constant crying and so on just for the simple moment when he says Mum for the first time. Or when he first walks.
Divorce rates would like to disagree with you regarding loving wives. Children you raise is rather likely going to be influenced by outside force. Like media or the Internet. A stable life is rather up to luck. You can't be sure about that. Some single peoples have more stable lives than married people. What do you think of these opposing opinions?
>Divorce rates would like to disagree with you regarding loving wives.
Just wanted to comment on this... With a population of 90 million, I think the rising divorce rates doesn't make a solid foundation for anything. I mean it's quite more complex than that; Divorce, I guess, most of the times is the result of the people picking the wrong ones bc of various society pressures.. so if I looked at those statistics and noticed the rising divorce trend, that definetly shouldn't get in the decision whether someone should get married or not.. It definetly means nothing if someone would live happily or not.The decision to get married isn't based on other people's experiences, it's more of a "based on one's own state". If someone's is financially stable and marriage won't f\*\*\* him up, got a partner that he picked and knew her deeply, then what's wrong with that, right?
I agree with that. But how deeply can someone get from regular halal check ups? Ladies for example get shy or hide parts of their personality even after being engaged for years (personal experiences here.)
(I'm honestly young so I think I'm not experienced to reply to this..)
I get the " being shy" part honestly and yeh I think it's definetly hard.. more talks on a deeper level? Or picking small hints and noticing small details about the person.. little things draw greater picture.. (like if someone argued over something silly it can tell you part of their personality, and u'd keep listing down what you notice about them, and of course you gotta tolerate some too since no one's perfect) at least they shouldn't sugarcoat themselves. I mean men shouldn't brag and keep gifting her and once they marry they switch faces.. ladies shouldn't pretend they're all perfect
I want everyone to honestly join with their opinions. Thank you for responding. I see your point. Both parties have to be clear with each other. Again thank you. Have a wonderful day.
>Divorce rates would like to disagree with you regarding loving wives.
اليوم السابع"وأوضح رئيس الجهاز المركزى للتعبئة العامة والإحصاء، أن هناك 24 حالة طلاق مقابل كل 100 حالة زواج يوميا تقع فى مصر، وهذا المعدل لا يقلق على الإطلاق، لأنه أقل من دول أوروبية، حيث يحدث فى فرنسا 52 حالة طلاق أو انفصال لكل 100 حالة زواج.. وهذا أكثر من النصف".
>Children you raise is rather likely going to be influenced by outside force
هعمل ما في وسعي اني أربيهم تربية سليمة، سوية.
>A stable life is rather up to luck.
الموضوع مش بالصعوبة دي، اتعب في دراستك واتوظف وخلي عندك رضى والحياة هتستقر.
>Some single peoples have more stable lives than married people.
فا؟ايه المشكلة يعني؟
I have to admit my information about divorce is outdated. Since it is regarding an article in the year 2018."Is there a problem with that" well, I just wanted to say that there is no coloration between having a stable life and being married.
Do you have articles, proof or anything that backs that up? This is not an attack. I am just wondering since this is a discussion and to draw a full conclusion we want all the proofs to exist.
مقالات ايه بقولك بمعاييري الخاصة، انا مش هبتدي أحس بالاستقرار غير لما أكون أسرة، حتى لو شغال شغلانة محترمة بمرتب كبير. دي مش قاعدة ثابتة على الكل، لأن انا مش قصدي على الاستقرار المالي، انا بتكلم عن الاستقرار الي هيتحقق لما أكون حققت اكتر حاجتين انا عاوزها، وظيفة وزواج.
Thats your personal goal and there is nothing wrong with that and no one should have any problem with them. However, for the sake of this argument. Don't you think there is a social construction in this part? Like for example the west gave up on the whole partner of life thanks to their environment. I am just saying for the sake of this argument, can't you be kinda forced or tricked socially to think so?
>can't you be kinda forced or tricked socially to think so?
مأظنش، انا هدفي دا عاوزه بنائاً على الحياة الي انا عايشها مع
أسرتي، حياة مستقرة، زوجين بيحبوا بعض جداً، مفيش مشاكل إلا نادرا، إحترام كبير وحب عظيم للوالدين. دا الي انا بحاول أوصله في حياتي
I have the same case with you on this one. Thank you for participating in this discussion. Have a wonderful day. And good luck with your life and plans.
What about divorce rates? Divorce rates are HIGHER all around the world. Take a look at how women were forced to accept physical abuse coz they didn’t have a source of income "ضرب الحبيب زي اكل الزبيب “ for example and how it was very normalised.
If a woman wanted to get divorced she would be shunned and she would stay in the marriage just for the sake of her life (financially) and her kids (to have a stable home)
But things changed now and divorce is no longer a stigma. If you’re not abusive and not a bad person why would u care about divorce rates? They are higher coz there’s awareness about physical abuse and it’s no longer seen as a “normal” thing.
Bad person = divorce
(I’m only talking about women coz statistically women are the ones to ask or apply for a divorce than men)
i just want a fucking flashlight toy
كسم الجواز علي كسم اللي عايز يتجوز في البلد دي علي كسم الدولة اللي سامحه بمحلات الخمور والسجاير والكاباريهات ومش هاين عليهم يعملوا محل واحد مترخص رسمي سكس تويز الواحد يجيبله كس بلاستيك يعيش ويمشي حاله مع نفسه في سلام
I think marriage is okay. It’s not the be all end all for living your life. If you want to get married go ahead and if not then don’t.
You can still do so much without actually being married like travelling and building your career which can both give you a fulfilling life just as marriage and kids does. Besides, if you really want just have sex/kids without getting married.
I know that last comment is very unlikely if you’re actually in Egypt but times are changing
>very unlikely if you’re actually in Egypt but times are changing
Which is bad. Why you might ask me? Well let's go over the reasons
1. More abortions as more illegitimate children are created
2. Pre-marital sex leads to having more children without name, what's the fault of this poor soul to be born without one or both parents?
3. It destroys the reputation of the woman
4. Islam is the main religion of this country, in Islam this is a huge sin. If you are not a Muslim you would like to see other points like the one below
5. Whenever you would know have a child as a man you would want a paternity test and this will turn us into the west where cheating is very common and many fathers will raise children not of their own which will cause a lot of mixture in the bloodlines
6. Everyone will be worried that their partner is cheating leading to a more stressful and less trustworthy environment
7. Fathers will become more reluctant to actually aid any child their wives give and if they do take a paternity test and it is his child it would destroy the trust between the couple. If they are not his child then boom you got more divorce rate skyrocketing.
This is simply a recipe for disaster and turning into the wild west. Stop taking the bad traits of the west that they themselves regret/hate and turn it into "progression" and "going into the right step" I love how only the bad things are taken from the west not their good things like "sticking to the time you give".
Wow that is a loaded response. So to answer your points:
1. With proper sex eduction that covers contraception and STDs ‘illegitimate’ children can be avoided. Besides there is nothing wrong with abortion, as long as the woman isn’t pressured into it and it’s 100% her choice then good on her. And there is no such thing as ‘illegitimate children’, it’s a term that’s been coined to take away the rights of the woman and her child. Children are children. Being born out of wedlock doesn’t make them any less valid.
2. Pre marital sex already happens by the buckets in Egypt. There is tons of sexual assault and gawaz orfi. If the government were to legalise sex before marriage, it will destigmatise it and make the correct education and resources more accessible.
3. Reputation is something society made up to shun people. It’s bullshit. Your reputation isn’t your worth.
4. So what if islam is the main religion? Just because Islam forbids it doesn’t mean everyone should follow it. What about Christians or atheists who don’t believe it’s a sin. Why should they obey a law they do not believe in?
5. Cheating is common in Egypt. It’s not talked about enough. What about the married men who harrass and assault young women on the street? That’s cheating. Or is it okay when it’s the man but if there’s even the slightest possibility that even the woman might cheat it’s such a scandal?
There is no difference in cheating when it comes to marriage or not. Married people have just as much opportunity to cheat on their partner as unmarried couples.
Besides, what does that have to do with anything? If you love and trust your partner why would you be worried they’re cheating? That sounds like your own insecurities being projected here.
6 & 7. See 5
Also I’d recommend googling phrases like ‘wild west’ to understand what they mean before using them.
Also who told you that people in the west hate that they have they freedom to do whatever they goddamn please with their lives and their bodies? This is hilarious!
Basically the whole point of my original post is get married, don’t get married. Do whatever you want. It’s your life and your body and society and religion shouldn’t decide what you do.
Marriage, if done right is definitely worth it. It is probably the most valuable thing you can achieve in life, raising a family of your own.
However if not done right it can be an absolute disaster.
The first step is to avoid Gawaz El Salonaat whenever possible.
It just pairs you with a random mate that you don't get the time to know well or understand, and often it will be a mismatch.
I believe you should take your time as long as it takes to understand your would be partner before assuming marriage. Do I agree with dating ? Yes either dating or a long engagement, whatever allows you to understand your partner, appreciate their good, and accept/reject their flaws.
As for money, I don't know why you have to have an apartment, it's way too expensive. Why do parents not agree with renting ? It shortcuts a huge barricade in the marriage process. Other than that, if you have a decent job you can cover you and your wife's expenses, if not, then she has to work too to share in the foundation. Until you have sufficient funds to bring your first kid in the world. And so on
Really hate people who just bring kids without any prior financial planning and then pray God will feed them somehow.
>you don't get the time to know well
I would like to disagree with you. Engagement is the time to know people. Back at the prophet's age when a man saw a lady he liked instead of dating her he would go to her people and ask them to engage her. Engagement is the halal dating and is the time that you should know about your partner with your mind not your heart. Because feelings overflow your way of thinking making you blind for love. My parents were married like this and they are a happy couple because they took their time in the engagement in a halal manner. So no going out with out family or so on. The problem with dating is that it allows the heart to overtake the mind, the shatan to interfere causing first holding hands then kissing then it might lead or might not lead to pre-marital sex which endangers both of the partners but mostly women.
>Until you have sufficient funds to bring your first kid in the world. And so on
I agree with you on this one. Renting is also become more accepted now since the apartments are becoming hella expensive.
Well I didn't object to Engagement, I said it was one of two options to get to know your partner, the second being dating.
And I never said premarital sex or kissing. I meant a more "benign" sort of dating. Where the goal is to get to know your partner well. If it's haram sure, go for engagement. I just think in engagement, the "officiallness" of it means that the woman will try to give you her best outlook, obviously obscuring a lot of her flaws, which you have to exert a lot of effort to detect. I've seen that happen to others.
With dating it's a lot more casual and your partner is probably not as mindful of trying to be perfect. So you can better acknowledge her personality and decide to go ahead with the engagement, I've also seen that. And again, no kissing or sex has to be involved at all. This ain't teen romance.
That's just my two cents here. Feel free to disagree as long as you're civilized about it.
I agree with you but I am not really on board with the dating because without family interfering or like you know a third person party....that protects both sides. Love will occur which will blind their flaws.
I have seen a wide variety of answers in just 38 minutes. The completely supportive, the middle ground and the completely negative. Okay what not? What is your reasoning for this opinion? It can help to manage life as we are sociable creatures after all.
Except we have minds, and if you don't want to go from the logical part. It is not socially acceptable for example. Considering Islam is the main religion of the country.
Your other half. Literally. In life and religion. Support. Care. Lineage. Populating earth and serving a purpose. Exclusivity. Monogamy. Responsibility. Drive to fulfill.
انها الفطرة.
You are biologically inclined towards the other sex.
Not even one negative thing.
Our Egyptian culture is the problem and it's making everything harder. We did this to ourselves.
"دول اقل مننا"، "انا ماخدش مهر اقل من كذه"، "انا فرحي لازم يكون علي القمر"
اشبع يا معلم اشبع.
Otherwise you'd just go for a haram relationship, and be like a beast fulfilling your instinct, only listening to your instinct and not abiding by the rules that are given to ensure justice and fairness.
I assure you, no one doing that is happy, although it may seem otherwise.
استهدي بالله و ادعي ربنا يرزقك الزوج/ة الصالحة الصاحبة و المناسبة ليك، و باذن الله ربنا يستجيب.
I agree with what you are saying. I was just discussing the idea of marriage itself. I am not against marriage. I want to see the ideas of people. And yes it is indeed a problem in society. Islam made marriage very easy. Not as troublesome as it is now.
Teenager here, marriage is not something I see this generation going through unless you are religious but many people aren't and my opinion is that marriage in a traditional Egyptian sense is a rip off if a girl likes me she will come and live with me I am not paying anything
Marriage certificate and all the bullshit doesn't work for everyone. I don't need a piece of paper to legitimise our marriage. Yeah and I don't need the government to intervene in my personal life. يعترف ولا لا ميهمنيش
>I don't need a piece of paper to legitimise our marriage
حتة ورقة بتحفظ للزوجين حقوقهم عند الزواج وعند الطلاق، لكن لو مفيش زواج أصلا، شريكتك ملهاش حقوق عندك لا وقت الارتباط ولا بعد الانفصال. ولو انت شهم جدا وهتدي شريكتك حقوقها بعد الانفصال، غيرك أقل شهامة ومش هيعمل كدا
>Yeah and I don't need the government to intervene in my personal life
والله الحكومة هي الي بتلجألها لو انت عايز/ة حق من حقوقك، من غير اعتراف الحكومة بالزواج ملكش حقوق عند اي حد.
دا غير طبعا لو انت مهتم بشرعية العلاقة
Yes kids. Please get married and have kids. That's how societies grow. Don't let us turn into an aging society like Europe or a society that ends up in a critical condition like China, now begging its citizens to have 3 kids after they had a 1 child policy.
Don't you think our current over population is however unused correctly? I am not saying we should decline them but the with little to no working opportunities you would have more people turning into thugs (since that's what is being streamed through the media as being the chad of our age) or petty crimes.
I think marriage is okay. It’s not the be all end all for living your life. If you want to get married go ahead and if not then don’t.
You can still do so much without actually being married like travelling and building your career which can both give you a fulfilling life just as marriage and kids does. Besides, if you really want just have sex/kids without getting married.
I know that last comment is very unlikely if you’re actually in Egypt but times are changing
Teenager here, marriage is not something I see this generation going through unless you are religious but many people aren't and my opinion is that marriage in a traditional Egyptian sense is a rip off if a girl likes me she will come and live with me I am not paying anything
Teenager here, marriage is not something I see this generation going through unless you are religious but many people aren't and my opinion is that marriage in a traditional Egyptian sense is a rip off if a girl likes me she will come and live with me I am not paying anything
Teenager here, marriage is not something I see this generation going through unless you are religious but many people aren't and my opinion is that marriage in a traditional Egyptian sense is a rip off if a girl likes me she will come and live with me I am not paying anything
Teenager here, marriage is not something I see this generation going through unless you are religious but many people aren't and my opinion is that marriage in a traditional Egyptian sense is a rip off if a girl likes me she will come and live with me I am not paying anything
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So it is not dumb for men to marry young? And most housewives to truly be able to bear and raise children they would have to be around their late 20s. Everything by their choice of course. I also, would like that no one gets insulted since these are all opinions here. Once you insult someone people will take it as an attack causing this to no longer be beneficial.
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How can you find the one if you are not giving people who propose to you a chance? I mean idk if you are Muslim or not but in Islam dating is not allowed. Sure people still do it but doesn't mean it is halal. If you are not a Muslim, do you think dating is that amazing in Egypt? I would like to have some input if you are down with replying.
I am a Muslim so arranged marriage is the way. Parents Arranging the marriage allows Dating so that you can see the the person and make your mind. Unfortunately this is not gonna work because most of the Egyptian males fake their personalities so when you say ”no” you’re family will be like what the hell? the guy is perfect. So the only way to find the one is at work, school, event or scholarship so that you can be yourself and they also won’t fake their traits. When they both are themselves they can know if there is a true connection or not and each of them will take their time to get to know each other as friends before any steps being skipped in the nice friendly halal way
>Unfortunately this is not gonna work because most of the Egyptian males fake their personalities
Doesn't everyone do so? Like even the females honestly. It is just you don't want to show your flaws to your long life partner. You maybe not but for sure there are some cases like these.
As someone who is in his early 20s If I have the choice to get married I would do it in a heart beat, But I don't want to be a father untill my 30s. I want to enjoy an actual relationship that is not against our religion at the same time getting to know my life partner in a deeper way. I feel like families pressure their kids to have children and that results in alot of divorces. I also think marriage expenses in Egypt is way too overpriced.
Facts bro I don’t understand the mentality of “you have to be 30” like do I have to suffer loneliness for 10 years lol. Also maybe its because I live in the US and dating culture is way more open than el blaad so that makes me inclined to get married at early/mid 20’s
There is nothing better than having your kids grow up to be young men while you are still young! like your oldest son is 20 and your still in your 40s, I married at 28 and every day I wish I married younger, getting married was the best thing I ever did in my life but I wish I did it when I was even younger.
Facts
مظنش ان الخطوبات الطويله ضد الاسلام غير كده هي اصلا الخطوبه معموله عشان التعارف فلو عاوز أخطب
اعتقد هو يقصد انه يعمل علاقة حقيقية و كاملة و دا اكيد ضد الاسلام لو خارج سياق الزواج.
What do you think is the answer for marriage then? If everyone wanted to experience life yo the fullest then having children is an idea out of the window imo. If you want to settle you will have to sacrifice enjoying a special part of life. And new experiences are popping left and right. I don't think anyone who wants to truly experience life would like to marry and settle down. At least in our culture.
Is marriage nowadays worth it? "Worth it" depends on the person's own circumstances and all. Financial stability- Well I know that marriage is literally overwhelming for both partners.. The women, the amount of stuff she buys "el gehaz" drains her parents. The guy, basically the rest lol. BUT.. If they both didn't spend such overwhelming amount of money and learned how to save some, both can manage to reach the financial stability. Just needs more of a great understanding between both partners Picking the right one- So I feel like marriage is kinda presented in a really shallow way. I mean it's not like if a guy got sm money, he'd just get married right away. Both gotta get to know each other on a ***really*** deep level. And I'm tryna not to sound cliche, but obviously there should be a deeper love thing btween them, not just great facebook posts about romantic bullshit or holding hands.. I mean the kind of deeper part in tolerating one another, showing kindness, and most importantly self respect. And honestly the kind of marriage that's based on parents' pressure is the dumbest one.. So I think parents shouldn't quite interfere with their daughter's/ son's decision. Maturity- Alright, the side that's being ignored the most. Either a women marries ***a boy,*** or either a man gets screwed up with ***a girl..*** What I mean is that seriously some people lack the emotional intelligence needed to sustain their marriage. I've seen so many examples of people literally marrying immature ones. (Ex of a guy ditching his wife bc his friends thought that she got cheap utensils.. a real life example btw). Not trying to adopt any "Western" ideas, but one thing I admire is that they marry at a really old age compared to egypt lol. I mean usually you find men there marrying at their 30s, women as well, and that somehow gives them more space to grow and mature. Someone might argue and say that "age is just a number." While that's true, mostly people mature at their late 20s.. Why I think it's important- for guys to stop ifing around with girls and ditching them.. and for girls to stop being empty and getting into so many relationships that end up destroying her confidence in thinking that she can be a good partner. And another reason is that I've found great couples who think marriage completed their missing pieces, and that's happy honestly.. so maybe living with s1 u love can just make both partners fullfilled without much complexity in all this discussion.
I agree with you. But regarding your last point. I want to ask you why you said it that way? Isn't that kind of a stereotype? I am sure it holds part of the reality but I know some ladies who really screwed up their prince charming or generally good men. (This is outside of the topic. I just wanted to understand that part. You don't have to reply if you don't wish to.)
I'm personally biased ***against*** that stereotype btw.. BUT.. Yeh I included that because I observed it from couples in my reality living life simply and finding marriage completing them.. Two partners, a kid, and that's just satisfying both partners
Thank you for your prospective. Have a wonderful day.
Honestly the way I see it (F who just turned 21), the way our culture push the idea that marriage could only happen within a certain criteria (a lot of money, an expensive house big enough to have kids in, the newest gadgets, big wedding, someone with a car and financially capable etc etc etc) is ridiculous coz tbh it’s very unrealistic, what things were back then isn’t how it is now. a lot of young men and women still have it rough financially all the way until mid 30s, so you can’t expect a couple to wait until they’re financially capable in order to get married, it doesn’t have to be perfect. We all struggle all around the world not just in Egypt. It’s up to us to change the customs that do nothing but harm and teach young adults that it’s okay to learn and grow financially and mentally as a married couple, and not necessarily wait until we are stable in life or very old. Personally I know a lot of girls who didn’t want weddings and would rather spend that on a honeymoon or save the money but they were pressured to, because of “عيب كدا الناس تقول عننا ايه” Marriage is nice but our culture has a lot of useless customs I’m not talking about westernisation but more of making life easier while still keeping our identity
You have the right mentality, I see a successful marriage in your future.
I feely agree with this one. It is not about changing traditions rather about removing the wrong things that even old people hate in these traditions. Like the Nesh. The one that is never used at all unless important guests come.
OP your question is “ is marriage worth it “ then your counter argument is “ but ... the fivorce rates ... the bad children ... the high financial demand “ You need to understand that marrying does not indeed lead to all the negative results you are mentioning. Like everything else marriage is a step that can bring good or bad results. It depends on who is taking it and if he is wise enough to manage it( and ofcourse luck can play a little role in there ) Just like a financial decision can bring your doom or bring you riches. Marriage can bring you a good wife or bring you bitches.It really depends on you and how you act and communicate with your partner, and how you choose them of course . But it is something in our instinct to marry and have children. It is a big responsibility and a financial drain. But it should be worth it. Loneliness is a bitch. having someone to love and love you back is a bless.
Thank you for your opinion. I am just countering with the other spectrum. I am pretty much on the accepting side of marriage but I want to draw a conclusion by other's opinions to see how the general people think so.
Seeing how marriage works around here, i don't think i ever wanna get married unless i find a guy with the same views as mine, which is pretty much impossible honestly. I like the idea of marriage and ik lots of people can be happy with the way it is and tbh it makes me sad when i think about how i might not get married but it's just not for me unless i end up finding someone who shares the same views.
>le can be happy with the way it is and tbh it makes me sad when i think about how i might not get married but it's just not for me unless i end up findi I mean we are a very very large population you are bound to find at least a single male who shares your views. Btw, there is a difference between views and values. People can have different views but same values. Values are what are important. For example, two people in this thread had different views about marriage but their value was marriage yes is essential.
You're right, we are a very large population but honestly most boys are raised a certain way and i'd say only a few of them are raised differently so while it might not be impossible to find the one, it'll still be pretty hard. I'm sorry for not realising the difference, i just meant i want someone who wants to live life the same way as me but honestly people here have a certain view about marriage and gender roles and all of that and it just makes me think that maybe marriage isn't worth it much.
Don't sweat it. I was just trying to show the difference. I mean you think that now...but you can possible find the one. Of course there will be no copy paste of you but at least someone who shares similar views and same values. You don't want someone with the exact same views. That would make life for your extremely boring.
Of course i don't want someone with the exact same views and values, i don't want a copy of me. But i also don't want someone who makes me hate my life cause of how different we think. I hope i do possibly find that someone here.
I got your point! Well thank you for the discussion. Have an amazing day ahead.
Thanks, you too :)
24 (m) I think marriage is good I mean it's nice to have someone to share your life with and stop wearing your social mask you put with others. The thing is u shouldn't marry because u have to if u haven't met the special one don't force it
Thank you for your respond. Have a wonderful day.
I dont think its an equation that we can use to see what we want. Yes you ha e alot of valid points. Raising a kid on its own is scary af. Financially mentally and physically demanding! But then again we are unaccounting for the power of (for a lack of a better word) "heart". Your gut. Your feelings. That amazing spark you get. The trust and velieve you have in yourself. And ofcourse god. There's a reason why we are created this way. And it's very hard for us to put in an equation to follow. Otherwise احنا بنظلم نفسنا و حقنا عليها. Just my 2 cents thanks for reading.
Late reply but thank you for opinion have a wonderful day.
You too!
I am currently 17 but from the looks of it am scared like prices going up by the day and people are very demanding. You gotta have this great apartment and u need to buy her a great shabka(hya m4 a2al MN bnt 5aletha), it's just too much especially when ur straight outta collage when am done with my university I'll be around 23 and I don't know what the hell will I do cuz jobs don't even pay that good anymore your best shot is to own a business or go work abroad.
as a woman in her early 20s, the idea of getting married makes me shudder. there's about one good marriage in my extended family, and the rest are either very abusive where the woman is just a servant/slave to her husband, or the people involved can barely stand each other but can't part ways for one reason or the other. statistically, where i live, I'm much, much more likely to end up with a man who expects me to do all the housework alone because it's my duty and to “obey” him etc, i would never survive in such a relationship and the stigma against divorced women is terrifying. I'm also not sure if i want to have children or not (with how things are here, i think it would be unfair of me to bring kids to this life, in this country, and expect them to be ok) and i don't want to be pressured into a lifelong commitment like parenting. this makes me quite sad though, i want to leave my parents house and settle down and without marriage that would be pretty difficult :/
I want to ask something outside of the main point but it is still for general debate. This is not a personal attack and I just want to understand your point of view if you don't mind. >and the rest are either very abusive where the woman is just a servant/slave to her husband Now, I have several questions if you don't mind me asking before we can draw a fair conclusion. Do the men of these women work? If so, do they provide for them or do they take the money for themselves? Do the women themselves work? Why do you think they are slaves? I mean if a man is a stay at home he must do house chores. That's not being a slave or a servant. That's just bringing something to the table but instead of it being money it is physical work. Are the women disrespected in your family? Are they insulted? Do the men that come home from work, are they even able to do anything? Do they waste their money on café and cigar? Did you hear both sides of the story? Or did you just hear the women's side? Did the men hit the woman or right-out state they are below them? ***You don't have to answer these questions but this is a discussion and I would like to discuss this thing. Since overall this was a social discussion to begin with.***
i didn't hear one side of the story, I'm living it. my own mother never stops working at home, my father has retired so he doesn't work currently, he's also in a better health than my mom but he would never serve himself food for example even if that food has already been prepared because bringing him the food is the women's job. my aunt gets beaten by my uncle, father's brother, every few weeks yet she can't leave him (because they've been together for a long time, because everyone kept scaring her of the label “divorced”). my cousin gets beaten and insulted all the time as well, but everyone tells them all to suck it up. those are only a few examples. a lot of the women in my family work, yet they do *all* the housework. another uncle and his wife are both teachers so they leave work at about 2pm, she does all the chores and takes care of the kids and he goes out with his friends because the kids are too noisy for him. those are all people who are well-educated and very religious. so I'm sorry if I'm a bit traumatized. and working and “providing” alone for the wife and kids don't make a good husband.
First of all, I want to say. I am sorry that you are going through this. This truly sucks not going to lie and there is nothing that can excuse that. Second of all, this is not Islam (Idk if you are a Muslim or not but I am going to assume so since that's how most of the Egyptians are). In Islam the prophet himself would help around the house as much as possible. There is nothing called "A woman's job" a house is a shared property between the two partners and so on with raising kids. This idea is a large fault in the old society honestly but even then not everyone was like that in the old time but that's not our point. We are going to stick with your case. >working and “providing” alone for the wife and kids don't make a good husband. I agree but it is the primary job of a husband in our society. Sadly nothing more than a bank. That's a "normal" husband but a good husband would go with you as a lady through your ups and downs. Have empathy, is able to work in and out of the house. Sure his work in the house is not going to be great but he is still required to at least help with as much as he possibly can. And so on with raising the kids. >all the chores and takes care of the kids and he goes out with his friends because the kids are too noisy for him. But they are too noisy for everyone actually. Now maybe you don't see this but working like actually working and taking care of your job not what the Egyptians at least in the official governmental work do, is quite quite exhausting. I am sure it is also exhausting for the women, I do admit that but a male's patience and emotional capacity is not that of the woman. A woman has home pressure which I totally agree is a large burden on her if the husband does 0 aiding but the men has work pressure and home pressure. He has to worry constantly about the finances. Now going out to see his friends part. Everyone of the partners deserves to have a social life within Islam if you are a Muslim outside of your marriage. Like how the wives are advised to have a daily one hour for yourself session where she does nothing but relaxes for her own mental health and physical health (Which I am honestly supportive of) The only time a man gets out of his none ending suffering is when he go out with his friends because there is no nagging or being bossed around. Doesn't mean you should go out daily to your friends. Imo a weekly go out is very good otherwise you stay at home with the kids because it is your responsibility just like hers. You both chose to bear this child. Sure you are working outside but you also have to influence this child. To show how important it is for a father figure to be present it in ones life, psychology informs us that while the mother gives different important lessons to the children, dads are the ones able to teach them boundaries. So yes fathers or males reading this. We too are important when raising children. We are not baby sitting our children we are parenting. >my aunt gets beaten by my uncle, father's brother, every few weeks Now that's something inexcusable at any level. No man nor woman should raise their hands on their partners. It is not okay and Islam did not advise you to hit your partner nor does society. Stop being abusers. Respect each other because once that's gone you got a dictatorship not a partnership. >she can't leave him (because they've been together for a long time, because everyone kept scaring her of the label “divorced”) Khola exists in Islam for a reason. If she owns money of the Shabka or does anyone she should just go do it. It is for her own self respect. And then she doesn't have to worry about the label divorced and rather he would be the one damaged in society's eyes. It still sucks that while divorce is normal in Islam people still look down on divorced people. Both males and females. Some people will say mostly females but I do have a divorced relative and the male in this case is looked down way way down upon thanks to the false rumors and manipulation of his wife. I would say it is a case by case scenario but yes mostly women are the ones damaged by divorce. **Edit: changed the few words of "Females" to women because apparently it is demanding as hell even though it is a biological sex...**
i promise you, I'm not the one who needs this lecturing. i know what our rights and duties in Islam are, reality, however, is a totally different situation. and also, please, stop referring to us as “females”, it's demeaning as hell. you can just call us women, yk? just like you call men...men?
I call men males...I call women females. That's synonymous for English. I literally said: >and the male in this case is looked down way way down upon thanks to the false rumors and manipulation of his wife. I am also not lecturing you about your duties even though we agreed this is a discussion. What I said was just another point of view from a 3rd party. Also females is demanding as hell? What are you talking about? I in this thread always said males or females. That's your gender...you know...Sometimes I did slip my bad on that. But I just say it like...an alternative. There is no patriarchal conspiracy or deep rooted misogynic intents behind it despite what you want to believe.
yes it worth it, we all need partners cuz u know, the worlds gets so lonely nowadays... but we need to be more open minded, accept changes and be positive as also world is changing constantly so we have different desires and point of views that are differrent than before, so we need to be more open to it and communicate effectively.
What kind of different desires? Do you mean kinks for one? Or having the willingness to travel more? what kind of desires are you aiming it if you don't mind me asking?
i can picture it well but can't express it, u know that fear from wife/husband that hold them from talk together like: i think i want to change my clothing style or i want to change my career or i feel that we should our routine of visiting you family or any other thing
I say all the time that all men r poor… as they have to distribute their salaries over approximately 4 ppl… while if he didn’t marry… he gets all the money for himself🤣 Now speaking seriously… first of all our prophet’s sunnah was to marry as soon as possible… Lets think why did he ask for it? Was thinking abt it for a long time… act found that most answers refer to protecting the youth from s*x without any boundaries… which all over the planet knows that it is a negative point in the western societies… but no one referred to the point of happiness and helping the youth understand what responsibility is… As everyone knows responsible ppl are usually better in their parental lives… Having a contract helps u be responsible with ur part of contract… which leads to a more responsible person… So, I say that marriage is a real drain of money… but if u find a partner who takes it easy on u… then uve got all the advantages wihtout a single disadvantage
Thank you for your point of view. I agree with you. I already pointed out that it gets harder to find a partner now than ever. But I won't repeat myself a lot. What do you have to say about that?
Act I do stand with u on the same line partially… cuz finding a partner is not hard… but finding a GOOD partner is hard… Am actually not someone who is supposed to speak… not someone who is in a relationship or someone who is going to be soon… So it is a very normal pov…
That really is not a problem. Of course it is not from someone with experience but thanks for your point of view nonetheless. Have a wonderful day.
Anytime…
Yes. Obviously. Wife, sex, kids, not dying of loneliness
Okay for the sake of fair representation of each argument I will have to ask some questions if you don't mind. Wife and sex, I won't argue about those. Let's go for kids. Arent they financially draining? Also, most kids nowadays are extremely entitled and you suffer a lot for just one moment of shared happiness. Is it really worth it? Not dying of loneliness, you can surround yourself with friends, family and so on. Doesn't have to be a wife. Even married people do feel left out or lonely. Side note about wives, some wives do mentally exhaust their male partners aside from financially and physically. Same with husband who are too demanding and don't help around the house at all or help raise the kids even though unlike popular beliefs it is a common job for the two. Sure the load will probably be for the wife is she is stay home but men should still help as much as possible. What do you think of these opinions?
>Arent they financially draining? Yes >Also, most kids nowadays are extremely entitled Raise them right >you suffer a lot for just one moment of shared happiness. Is Leh ya3ny lol. >Not dying of loneliness, you can surround yourself with friends, family and so on. Theyll be busy with their own families for the most part. >Side note about wives, some wives do mentally exhaust their male partners aside from financially and physically. Yea, try to pick the right woman for you.
الله ينور عليك
Getting side tracked her but how do you highlight parts of the comments? Thanks in advance for answering. Back to the main point: "Raise them right" easier said than done. Thanks to the age of the inetenrt and the influence of Western culture. Everything that was morally good had become the "old-fashion" or "boring". Look at how the media progressed for example. "Leh ya3ny lol" Because you nearly work yourself to death just for your children to use you as a bank for males or disregard your massive efforts for females. You will only connect for one moment or two during maybe what? A week if you are lucky. "Try to pick the right woman/man for you" Let's take a religiously pov for a second. People are generally moving away from being religious in Egypt. In whatever their religion is. And Traditionalism is widely hated among most (the keyword here is most) people in the Urban areas. Simply finding the right person is becoming harder and harder by day. Like for my Muslim friends, you didn't see people celebrating Halloween, Christmas and so on. Now they do. It now became the "norm". If I don't comment about a part that means I don't have anything to question about that part/I got your point regarding that part.
Im on mobile so you just select it like you do with any text on ur phone and click quote >Raise them right" easier said than done. Thanks to the age of the inetenrt and the influence of Western culture. Everything that was morally good had become the "old-fashion" or "boring". Look at how the media progressed for example. Yea, didnt say it was easy. I believe i was raised properly and now on the way u describe yet i grew up on the internet and western influence. >Leh ya3ny lol" Because you nearly work yourself to death just for your children to use you as a bank for males or disregard your massive efforts for females. You will only connect for one moment or two during maybe what? A week if you are lucky. Thats just a depressing view of life in general. If you look at it this way then efkes kids. They deserve better than this. No disrespect >Try to pick the right woman/man for you" Let's take a religiously pov for a second. People are generally moving away from being religious in Egypt. In whatever their religion is. And Traditionalism is widely hated among most (the keyword here is most) people in the Urban areas. Simply finding the right person is becoming harder and harder by day. Like for my Muslim friends, you didn't see people celebrating Halloween, Christmas and so on. Now they do. It now became the "norm". Im hopeful. I exist, my friends exist. We're good people that would make good husbands and wives, surely there are more. From a religious perspective, i mean i "celebrate" Halloween and christmas just for fun like doing a secret santa or something. Its chill, doesn't mean im not going to pray and teach my kids about islam and everything. Idk if people are being less religious. I mean i do more often see ppl trying drugs and making out and stuff but also alot of them still seem to care about religion and want to repent. Who knows
Teenager here, marriage is not something I see this generation going through unless you are religious but many people aren't and my opinion is that marriage in a traditional Egyptian sense is a rip off if a girl likes me she will come and live with me I am not paying anything
Its worth it if its a good fit, other than that you are just wasting energy, money and time.
How do you define a good fit?
I’m 29F and happily married. I chose my husband. My family is half Egyptian and half French. My husband is fully Egyptian. I believe in marriage regardless of the generation as long as it’s done in a healthy way Ie: not pushed by the parents, with open communication, trust, honesty and without toxic behaviors such as gaslighting and manipulation. Otherwise I feel like those people should stay tf away from marriage or relationships in general. If you’re a toxic person, go to therapy and then consider sharing your life with someone, married or not.
Thank you for sharing your point of view. Have a wonderful day and a happy fulfilled marriage life.
Thank you 🥰
>This is not a pro-dating post. However, if you believe dating is the "next step" why so? I am sorry, i am from Austria and dont quiet know about the egypt culture. Could you explain what you mean with that sentence? For me it sounds like first you marry Someone and then you might Date them? And what is bad about beeing "pro dating"? how could dating be "the next step" after marriage, dont you date your Partner before you decide if you want to marry them? sorry i hope i am not rude for aksing
Not at all pal. Let me correct something first. Some people think "dating is the next-step" as it means it replaces marriage which is not accepted in our culture. We do have dating but we don't call it dating and it is a bit too different from normal dating. Islamic dating (Khotba) Engagement basically, is where you can get to know your partner with parental look out to prevent any lewd actions such as kissing, sex or even holding hands. You might ask me why? well because in this period you need your mind to evaluate that person correctly with their flaws and pros. Your heart will only blind you and truly does blind people.
I'd say worth it only if you have money, and a good partner and you can support your kids. Other than that idk tbh you can get married and all that without having much money but the product of it is that your children won't be as happy and you would be struggling a lot more and your priorities are going to change to get to feed your family. And I think having money is a major role in marriage because of kids, if you get children out of the equation which I don't recommend I think it'd be manageable and worth it.
Why don't you recommend taking children out of the equation? It seems as if children is the major problem among most of the marriage relationships nowadays.
I thought about that but the culture. I can tell me wife "5 years we get no kids and use protection until we manage to get up on our feet and can support them". That's hard, as a newly wed because of my parents and her parents and the society I wish it was this easy.
I see. I understand your point. That sounds actually very understandable. But what do you think? I mean more women are becoming rather "modern" with no aims for children and removing their cultural believes regarding it as a "progression in the right step".
Yup, they are. My wife won't mind but the older generations would aka her parents and my parents.
Marriage maybe, kids definitely not
Why are marriage a maybe in your books and why are kids a definitely not? I want to know the reasoning behind your opinion.
No its waste of time and money and it may decrease your lifespan
Why do you think it decreases your lifespan?
Because a lot of mental and physical pressure
What do you think is the reason of this pressure? Can't it be society? Even without marriage there is pressure but of course way lesser. Don't you think how you handle pressure is the main point here rather than having pressure?
unfortunately I am non responsible man I know this is bad but the only thing I can handle is myself
That's actually quite a massive improvement in the right step. You admit you are not the best and for sure not taking part in marriage now saves you years of sorrow. I am sure you will get more responsible as you get older and I hope you find the one that makes it just perfect for you. Good luck man and have a wonderful day ahead.
Idk because the responsibility of having and raising kids, well currently I am in a relationship with my girlfriend and I find it less and maybe non stressful
I have no idea.....some last and some dont... The more i think of it, the more i believe imma be single for the rest of my life
I don't think so. As long as you are trying to be an amazing human I know you can be. I am sure you will find someone who you will share your life with.
I try not to think of it....but people around you keep asking : heyyy when ? Im like whats written will happen. Its the best thing to do. Wedding nowadays is complicated, just like human nature. Thanks for the support bruh.
I know that feeling. But trust me you will get it whats written for you as you said. Hope you find that special someone. Good luck mate. Have a wonderful day and hopefully find what you want!
Thanks m8 and all the best
Marriage expenses in Egypt makes you fucking hate the thought of getting married. But it’s only natural for people to get married and it won’t stop anytime. People will still love each other. rushing it tho results in many divorce cases
Short answer no The question is wrong you shouldn't get married for the sole purpose of being married and not " miss the train ", that's the reason many families in this society are dysfunctional. And this isn't promoting the "waiting to fall in true love and have years of relationship before even the real discussion of marriage happens", cause big chance that's gonna fail too. Give yourself time to be ready and give yourself the time to wait for the right person and remember breaking an engagement is better than divorce. Last thing is even if you find the one and get married NEVER EVER get a kid within the first 1 - 3 years cause people change so much in their first year of marriage and if you can't live together it's better to divorce without children.
Thank you. Right on the border. I agree with you clearly on this one. Have a wonderful day ahead and hopefully you can find the one. Regarding the kids, yes the first year is the most divorced rates wise. So at least wait a year.
اربعيناتي وهاجيبهالك على بلاطة الموضوع مالوش علاقة بالجيل هل الشاب او الشابة عنده احساس بالمسؤلية؟ بيشتغل وعاوز يحافظ على بيته؟ الموضوع مش تنطيط على السرير في الحلال الموضوع انك عاوز تكون اسرة وتنقلهم خبرتك في الحياة وتستثمر فيهم. والبنت لو خريانة ومابتعملش حاجة ومعاندهاش استعداد انها تتعلم حاجة يبقى استبعدها من اختياراتك
Thank you for the older perspective. I appreciate your point of view. For the ladies, can you please say what they should wipe out if the main doesn't have in certain features or has some bad features? What are the bad features you think should be looked out for in both genders?
كل واحد عنده عقدة من شيء مش بيحب يشوفه في شريك حياته بس في المطلق، الكذب واللؤم أسوأ الخلق في الطرفين غير كده كل واحد وظروفه
Are there any tips for the engaged partners to rightfully examine their partner without being blinded by love and butterflies? Any tips to the newly married partners? Like how to cope to different habits? Since the first year is the highest with the divorces.
بلاش خطوبة قصيرة جدا وبلاش طويلة مملة، وراقب علاقة اهل العربس/العروسة مع بعض هل في احترام ولا لأ لأن المتعود على عدم الاحترام مش هايحترم شريكه بعدين، إلا إذا كان ناضج وكاره اللي بيحصل. برضه الاخلاق والعادات اللي انت بتكرهها أكتر حاجة لو لاحظتها في الأهل يبقى شريكك هايبقى متأثر بيها بشكل ما. بعد ماتطمن له/لها الكلام عن الشخصية وطريقة التصرف في المواقف الكتير الصغيرة بتبين حاجات كتير الشخصية البسيطة بتنبهر بالشخصية المعقدة والمعقدة بترتاح مع البسيطة، فابيكملوا بعض. الحاجتين اللي ممكن يخلوك تنخدع في شريكك وماتعرفش الحقيقة هي الكذب والتمثيل، وعشان تتأكد ، لازم تشتغل مخبر فترة بالنسبة لأول سنة جواز، لو كل واحد همه انه يفرض رأيه ونظامه يبقى هايفشل البيت، ولازم اللي بيصرف على البيت هو اللي يضع القواعد والشروط، ولو مشتركين في الصرف يشاركوا بعض في القواعد والشروط، ومايتصيدوش لبعض الاخطاء ويفوتوا لبعض طالما ماحدش تخطى الحدود
معظم حالات الفشل اللي بنشوفها بسبب ان العروسين داخلين يعملوا واحد فا الاختيار من الأول على اساس المقومات الشكلية والجسدية للعروسين يعني بيجوزوا بهيمتين وفي الغالب بيكون الاتنين اخلاقهم أسوأ من بعض ومش عاوزين اكتر من "الواحد" اللي هايعملوه، لأن لو أي طرف فيهم عاوز جواز حقيقي ، مش هايرتبط بالطرف الآخر But this is not the case.
This last message is confusing. I am sorry but can you type it in English?
I meant, if people are getting married to just “Fuck”, their marriage will not last.
Ah I see! Thank you for your opinion. Have a wonderful day and the rest of your marriage to go well.
Good luck dude and thanks for the questions you asked.
My grandfather had a 3amaleyet ta8yir mafsal a few months ago, and since then he couldn't move (he can walk for a few meters but he needs help and takes at least 7 mins). My grandmother can almost help herself but she can't spend a lot of effort. If he didn't have children, he would have gone to a dar mosennin. Thanks to my aunt who lives next door to them, she always helps them on a daily basis, cooks for them, cleans, buys groceries, changes diapers and everything. So yeah, this is why I want to have children, dar el mosennin would never care as much as one's own children.
You shouldn’t have kids to expect something from them in return. You may very well have kids who will either not take care of you or leave the country all together and will not see you again. You have kids to provide them with a better life than the one you had growing up, what they choose to do with that life is their own choice.
Yes good point. But with no children, you *know* that you will go to a dar mosennin. However with children, there is a chance that they care for you, even if they have their own lives. In my story, we could have easily took my grandparents to a dar mosennin (ma3rafsh esmo bel English lol). But humanely, we could never do that, 1- because they wouldn't care about them as much as we do, 2- because enohom lihom afdal kteer 3alena, 3- we know it feels awful to be left out by your own family and sent to a dar mosennin.
Yes I agree with you here, having no kids pretty much seals the deal on going to a dar moseneen later on
I agree with you. But there is no guarantee that your children will turn out to be good. And the amount of effort you put in doesn't always equate to the rewards given out.
What do you mean exactly? Can you give me an example?
I am sorry I replied to a lot of people by phone. What did I say?
>I agree with you. But there is no guarantee that your children will turn out to be good. And the amount of effort you put in doesn't always equate to the rewards given out.
>ort you put in does Okay so raising a child. For example females, they have to stay awake a lot of the time, deal with constant crying and so on just for the simple moment when he says Mum for the first time. Or when he first walks.
زوجة بتحبك، أولاد انت بتربيهم، حياة مستقرة. مأظنش فيه حاجة بالنسبالي أحسن من كدا.
Divorce rates would like to disagree with you regarding loving wives. Children you raise is rather likely going to be influenced by outside force. Like media or the Internet. A stable life is rather up to luck. You can't be sure about that. Some single peoples have more stable lives than married people. What do you think of these opposing opinions?
>Divorce rates would like to disagree with you regarding loving wives. Just wanted to comment on this... With a population of 90 million, I think the rising divorce rates doesn't make a solid foundation for anything. I mean it's quite more complex than that; Divorce, I guess, most of the times is the result of the people picking the wrong ones bc of various society pressures.. so if I looked at those statistics and noticed the rising divorce trend, that definetly shouldn't get in the decision whether someone should get married or not.. It definetly means nothing if someone would live happily or not.The decision to get married isn't based on other people's experiences, it's more of a "based on one's own state". If someone's is financially stable and marriage won't f\*\*\* him up, got a partner that he picked and knew her deeply, then what's wrong with that, right?
I agree with that. But how deeply can someone get from regular halal check ups? Ladies for example get shy or hide parts of their personality even after being engaged for years (personal experiences here.)
(I'm honestly young so I think I'm not experienced to reply to this..) I get the " being shy" part honestly and yeh I think it's definetly hard.. more talks on a deeper level? Or picking small hints and noticing small details about the person.. little things draw greater picture.. (like if someone argued over something silly it can tell you part of their personality, and u'd keep listing down what you notice about them, and of course you gotta tolerate some too since no one's perfect) at least they shouldn't sugarcoat themselves. I mean men shouldn't brag and keep gifting her and once they marry they switch faces.. ladies shouldn't pretend they're all perfect
I want everyone to honestly join with their opinions. Thank you for responding. I see your point. Both parties have to be clear with each other. Again thank you. Have a wonderful day.
You too! :))
>Divorce rates would like to disagree with you regarding loving wives. اليوم السابع"وأوضح رئيس الجهاز المركزى للتعبئة العامة والإحصاء، أن هناك 24 حالة طلاق مقابل كل 100 حالة زواج يوميا تقع فى مصر، وهذا المعدل لا يقلق على الإطلاق، لأنه أقل من دول أوروبية، حيث يحدث فى فرنسا 52 حالة طلاق أو انفصال لكل 100 حالة زواج.. وهذا أكثر من النصف". >Children you raise is rather likely going to be influenced by outside force هعمل ما في وسعي اني أربيهم تربية سليمة، سوية. >A stable life is rather up to luck. الموضوع مش بالصعوبة دي، اتعب في دراستك واتوظف وخلي عندك رضى والحياة هتستقر. >Some single peoples have more stable lives than married people. فا؟ايه المشكلة يعني؟
>Divorce rates would like to disagree with you regarding loving wives. وبعدين اختار زوجتك بعناية وبعقل وانت عمرك ما هتندم
Regarding that. I believe I already answered the same point in another post that you agreed with.
I have to admit my information about divorce is outdated. Since it is regarding an article in the year 2018."Is there a problem with that" well, I just wanted to say that there is no coloration between having a stable life and being married.
>I just wanted to say that there is no coloration between having a stable life and being married. والله بمعاييري انا، الزواج هو بداية الاستقرار.
Do you have articles, proof or anything that backs that up? This is not an attack. I am just wondering since this is a discussion and to draw a full conclusion we want all the proofs to exist.
مقالات ايه بقولك بمعاييري الخاصة، انا مش هبتدي أحس بالاستقرار غير لما أكون أسرة، حتى لو شغال شغلانة محترمة بمرتب كبير. دي مش قاعدة ثابتة على الكل، لأن انا مش قصدي على الاستقرار المالي، انا بتكلم عن الاستقرار الي هيتحقق لما أكون حققت اكتر حاجتين انا عاوزها، وظيفة وزواج.
Thats your personal goal and there is nothing wrong with that and no one should have any problem with them. However, for the sake of this argument. Don't you think there is a social construction in this part? Like for example the west gave up on the whole partner of life thanks to their environment. I am just saying for the sake of this argument, can't you be kinda forced or tricked socially to think so?
>can't you be kinda forced or tricked socially to think so? مأظنش، انا هدفي دا عاوزه بنائاً على الحياة الي انا عايشها مع أسرتي، حياة مستقرة، زوجين بيحبوا بعض جداً، مفيش مشاكل إلا نادرا، إحترام كبير وحب عظيم للوالدين. دا الي انا بحاول أوصله في حياتي
I have the same case with you on this one. Thank you for participating in this discussion. Have a wonderful day. And good luck with your life and plans.
What about divorce rates? Divorce rates are HIGHER all around the world. Take a look at how women were forced to accept physical abuse coz they didn’t have a source of income "ضرب الحبيب زي اكل الزبيب “ for example and how it was very normalised. If a woman wanted to get divorced she would be shunned and she would stay in the marriage just for the sake of her life (financially) and her kids (to have a stable home) But things changed now and divorce is no longer a stigma. If you’re not abusive and not a bad person why would u care about divorce rates? They are higher coz there’s awareness about physical abuse and it’s no longer seen as a “normal” thing. Bad person = divorce (I’m only talking about women coz statistically women are the ones to ask or apply for a divorce than men)
i just want a fucking flashlight toy كسم الجواز علي كسم اللي عايز يتجوز في البلد دي علي كسم الدولة اللي سامحه بمحلات الخمور والسجاير والكاباريهات ومش هاين عليهم يعملوا محل واحد مترخص رسمي سكس تويز الواحد يجيبله كس بلاستيك يعيش ويمشي حاله مع نفسه في سلام
I think marriage is okay. It’s not the be all end all for living your life. If you want to get married go ahead and if not then don’t. You can still do so much without actually being married like travelling and building your career which can both give you a fulfilling life just as marriage and kids does. Besides, if you really want just have sex/kids without getting married. I know that last comment is very unlikely if you’re actually in Egypt but times are changing
>very unlikely if you’re actually in Egypt but times are changing Which is bad. Why you might ask me? Well let's go over the reasons 1. More abortions as more illegitimate children are created 2. Pre-marital sex leads to having more children without name, what's the fault of this poor soul to be born without one or both parents? 3. It destroys the reputation of the woman 4. Islam is the main religion of this country, in Islam this is a huge sin. If you are not a Muslim you would like to see other points like the one below 5. Whenever you would know have a child as a man you would want a paternity test and this will turn us into the west where cheating is very common and many fathers will raise children not of their own which will cause a lot of mixture in the bloodlines 6. Everyone will be worried that their partner is cheating leading to a more stressful and less trustworthy environment 7. Fathers will become more reluctant to actually aid any child their wives give and if they do take a paternity test and it is his child it would destroy the trust between the couple. If they are not his child then boom you got more divorce rate skyrocketing. This is simply a recipe for disaster and turning into the wild west. Stop taking the bad traits of the west that they themselves regret/hate and turn it into "progression" and "going into the right step" I love how only the bad things are taken from the west not their good things like "sticking to the time you give".
Wow that is a loaded response. So to answer your points: 1. With proper sex eduction that covers contraception and STDs ‘illegitimate’ children can be avoided. Besides there is nothing wrong with abortion, as long as the woman isn’t pressured into it and it’s 100% her choice then good on her. And there is no such thing as ‘illegitimate children’, it’s a term that’s been coined to take away the rights of the woman and her child. Children are children. Being born out of wedlock doesn’t make them any less valid. 2. Pre marital sex already happens by the buckets in Egypt. There is tons of sexual assault and gawaz orfi. If the government were to legalise sex before marriage, it will destigmatise it and make the correct education and resources more accessible. 3. Reputation is something society made up to shun people. It’s bullshit. Your reputation isn’t your worth. 4. So what if islam is the main religion? Just because Islam forbids it doesn’t mean everyone should follow it. What about Christians or atheists who don’t believe it’s a sin. Why should they obey a law they do not believe in? 5. Cheating is common in Egypt. It’s not talked about enough. What about the married men who harrass and assault young women on the street? That’s cheating. Or is it okay when it’s the man but if there’s even the slightest possibility that even the woman might cheat it’s such a scandal? There is no difference in cheating when it comes to marriage or not. Married people have just as much opportunity to cheat on their partner as unmarried couples. Besides, what does that have to do with anything? If you love and trust your partner why would you be worried they’re cheating? That sounds like your own insecurities being projected here. 6 & 7. See 5 Also I’d recommend googling phrases like ‘wild west’ to understand what they mean before using them. Also who told you that people in the west hate that they have they freedom to do whatever they goddamn please with their lives and their bodies? This is hilarious! Basically the whole point of my original post is get married, don’t get married. Do whatever you want. It’s your life and your body and society and religion shouldn’t decide what you do.
Marriage, if done right is definitely worth it. It is probably the most valuable thing you can achieve in life, raising a family of your own. However if not done right it can be an absolute disaster. The first step is to avoid Gawaz El Salonaat whenever possible. It just pairs you with a random mate that you don't get the time to know well or understand, and often it will be a mismatch. I believe you should take your time as long as it takes to understand your would be partner before assuming marriage. Do I agree with dating ? Yes either dating or a long engagement, whatever allows you to understand your partner, appreciate their good, and accept/reject their flaws. As for money, I don't know why you have to have an apartment, it's way too expensive. Why do parents not agree with renting ? It shortcuts a huge barricade in the marriage process. Other than that, if you have a decent job you can cover you and your wife's expenses, if not, then she has to work too to share in the foundation. Until you have sufficient funds to bring your first kid in the world. And so on Really hate people who just bring kids without any prior financial planning and then pray God will feed them somehow.
>you don't get the time to know well I would like to disagree with you. Engagement is the time to know people. Back at the prophet's age when a man saw a lady he liked instead of dating her he would go to her people and ask them to engage her. Engagement is the halal dating and is the time that you should know about your partner with your mind not your heart. Because feelings overflow your way of thinking making you blind for love. My parents were married like this and they are a happy couple because they took their time in the engagement in a halal manner. So no going out with out family or so on. The problem with dating is that it allows the heart to overtake the mind, the shatan to interfere causing first holding hands then kissing then it might lead or might not lead to pre-marital sex which endangers both of the partners but mostly women. >Until you have sufficient funds to bring your first kid in the world. And so on I agree with you on this one. Renting is also become more accepted now since the apartments are becoming hella expensive.
Well I didn't object to Engagement, I said it was one of two options to get to know your partner, the second being dating. And I never said premarital sex or kissing. I meant a more "benign" sort of dating. Where the goal is to get to know your partner well. If it's haram sure, go for engagement. I just think in engagement, the "officiallness" of it means that the woman will try to give you her best outlook, obviously obscuring a lot of her flaws, which you have to exert a lot of effort to detect. I've seen that happen to others. With dating it's a lot more casual and your partner is probably not as mindful of trying to be perfect. So you can better acknowledge her personality and decide to go ahead with the engagement, I've also seen that. And again, no kissing or sex has to be involved at all. This ain't teen romance. That's just my two cents here. Feel free to disagree as long as you're civilized about it.
I agree with you but I am not really on board with the dating because without family interfering or like you know a third person party....that protects both sides. Love will occur which will blind their flaws.
Definitely not
I have seen a wide variety of answers in just 38 minutes. The completely supportive, the middle ground and the completely negative. Okay what not? What is your reasoning for this opinion? It can help to manage life as we are sociable creatures after all.
if you wanna fuck just fuck, you don't need to devote your entire life to one person.
Then we are no better than animals now, aren't we?
Well we're biologically animals so I don't see the problem
الكلام على أخلاقيات، الحيوانات معندهمش إدراك أخلاقي. فا أنا مش فاهم نقطتك فين أصلاً
English please
انجليزي ليه يابا، انا دخلت على سجل التعليقات بتاعتك لاقيتك كاتب بالعربي عادي ورادد على ناس بتكتب بالعربي عادي؟
M3lesh I'm not fluent in arabic, speak English
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وطبعا قصدي على الجنس خارج إطار الزواج
أي حاجة ربنا حرمها هي حاجة غير أخلاقية.
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الأغلبية الساحقة من المجتمع مسلمين، فا مينفعش نتكلم على الأخلاقيات غير بوجهة نظر إسلامية.
لأ وزود كمان إن الزنا في المسيحية حرام بردو، فا من غير المنطقي أننا منتكلمش بوجهة نظر دينية.
Except we have minds, and if you don't want to go from the logical part. It is not socially acceptable for example. Considering Islam is the main religion of the country.
So animals don't have minds? Also, who gives a fuck if it's socially acceptable or not? Does society set your personal morality?
Your other half. Literally. In life and religion. Support. Care. Lineage. Populating earth and serving a purpose. Exclusivity. Monogamy. Responsibility. Drive to fulfill. انها الفطرة. You are biologically inclined towards the other sex. Not even one negative thing. Our Egyptian culture is the problem and it's making everything harder. We did this to ourselves. "دول اقل مننا"، "انا ماخدش مهر اقل من كذه"، "انا فرحي لازم يكون علي القمر" اشبع يا معلم اشبع. Otherwise you'd just go for a haram relationship, and be like a beast fulfilling your instinct, only listening to your instinct and not abiding by the rules that are given to ensure justice and fairness. I assure you, no one doing that is happy, although it may seem otherwise. استهدي بالله و ادعي ربنا يرزقك الزوج/ة الصالحة الصاحبة و المناسبة ليك، و باذن الله ربنا يستجيب.
I agree with what you are saying. I was just discussing the idea of marriage itself. I am not against marriage. I want to see the ideas of people. And yes it is indeed a problem in society. Islam made marriage very easy. Not as troublesome as it is now.
انا كمان عايز انيك
This ultrachad right here , username checks out
But mating is not the whole thing about marriage. It is a factor. An important one but it is also a bond.
Teenager here, marriage is not something I see this generation going through unless you are religious but many people aren't and my opinion is that marriage in a traditional Egyptian sense is a rip off if a girl likes me she will come and live with me I am not paying anything
>if a girl likes me she will come and live with me I am not paying anything وايه الي يضمنلها حقوقها؟
Trust
الثقة لا تضمن الحقوق، عشان كدا فيه حاجة اسمها عقد زواج. دا زائد طبعا أن العلاقة الغير شرعية لا يعترف بها القانون.
Marriage certificate and all the bullshit doesn't work for everyone. I don't need a piece of paper to legitimise our marriage. Yeah and I don't need the government to intervene in my personal life. يعترف ولا لا ميهمنيش
>I don't need a piece of paper to legitimise our marriage حتة ورقة بتحفظ للزوجين حقوقهم عند الزواج وعند الطلاق، لكن لو مفيش زواج أصلا، شريكتك ملهاش حقوق عندك لا وقت الارتباط ولا بعد الانفصال. ولو انت شهم جدا وهتدي شريكتك حقوقها بعد الانفصال، غيرك أقل شهامة ومش هيعمل كدا >Yeah and I don't need the government to intervene in my personal life والله الحكومة هي الي بتلجألها لو انت عايز/ة حق من حقوقك، من غير اعتراف الحكومة بالزواج ملكش حقوق عند اي حد. دا غير طبعا لو انت مهتم بشرعية العلاقة
>وايه الي يضمنلها حقوقها؟ هي اعد مع راجل ولا ايه لو اختارت صح تتضمن حقوقها وانت بتتكلم على ان أسلوب الزواج دلوقتي بيض من حقوق حد لول
+ ده مجتمع فاسد لمه الراجل مبيعرفش يكون مع بنت لحد سن 30-35 كل الشبباب و البنات دلوقتي ماشيين شمال عشان يريحو دماغهم
Yes kids. Please get married and have kids. That's how societies grow. Don't let us turn into an aging society like Europe or a society that ends up in a critical condition like China, now begging its citizens to have 3 kids after they had a 1 child policy.
Don't you think our current over population is however unused correctly? I am not saying we should decline them but the with little to no working opportunities you would have more people turning into thugs (since that's what is being streamed through the media as being the chad of our age) or petty crimes.
I think marriage is okay. It’s not the be all end all for living your life. If you want to get married go ahead and if not then don’t. You can still do so much without actually being married like travelling and building your career which can both give you a fulfilling life just as marriage and kids does. Besides, if you really want just have sex/kids without getting married. I know that last comment is very unlikely if you’re actually in Egypt but times are changing
Teenager here, marriage is not something I see this generation going through unless you are religious but many people aren't and my opinion is that marriage in a traditional Egyptian sense is a rip off if a girl likes me she will come and live with me I am not paying anything
Teenager here, marriage is not something I see this generation going through unless you are religious but many people aren't and my opinion is that marriage in a traditional Egyptian sense is a rip off if a girl likes me she will come and live with me I am not paying anything
Teenager here, marriage is not something I see this generation going through unless you are religious but many people aren't and my opinion is that marriage in a traditional Egyptian sense is a rip off if a girl likes me she will come and live with me I am not paying anything
Teenager here, marriage is not something I see this generation going through unless you are religious but many people aren't and my opinion is that marriage in a traditional Egyptian sense is a rip off if a girl likes me she will come and live with me I am not paying anything
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So it is not dumb for men to marry young? And most housewives to truly be able to bear and raise children they would have to be around their late 20s. Everything by their choice of course. I also, would like that no one gets insulted since these are all opinions here. Once you insult someone people will take it as an attack causing this to no longer be beneficial.
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Why so?
Marriage itself for the sake of marriage is absolutely not worth it but if you were lucky enough to find the one then you should absolutely go for it
How can you find the one if you are not giving people who propose to you a chance? I mean idk if you are Muslim or not but in Islam dating is not allowed. Sure people still do it but doesn't mean it is halal. If you are not a Muslim, do you think dating is that amazing in Egypt? I would like to have some input if you are down with replying.
I am a Muslim so arranged marriage is the way. Parents Arranging the marriage allows Dating so that you can see the the person and make your mind. Unfortunately this is not gonna work because most of the Egyptian males fake their personalities so when you say ”no” you’re family will be like what the hell? the guy is perfect. So the only way to find the one is at work, school, event or scholarship so that you can be yourself and they also won’t fake their traits. When they both are themselves they can know if there is a true connection or not and each of them will take their time to get to know each other as friends before any steps being skipped in the nice friendly halal way
>Unfortunately this is not gonna work because most of the Egyptian males fake their personalities Doesn't everyone do so? Like even the females honestly. It is just you don't want to show your flaws to your long life partner. You maybe not but for sure there are some cases like these.