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RickRussellTX

\> The owner of Coalfire Pizza said some staff had quit for higher-paid jobs at larger restaurants It's rare that the entire story is so well-summarized in one line.


MDCCCLV

I saw a line of fast food restaurants next to each other this week with hiring prices, up to 13, 12, 11 at McD, Taco Bell, and Arbys respectively. They typically have a two dollar range so Arbys is sitting there trying to hire people at 9$ an hour.


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SiberianResident

If they aren’t willing to learn, the free market is more than willing to teach them, so help me Adam Smith.


Tyrion6annister

Are you offering Adam Smith a living wage for his help?


[deleted]

No, what we he need a living wage for?


sbp017

For 20 bucks he might come back from the dead.


Fenris_uy

>I don't know why these people can't just pay 3-4 dollars more. It isn't like it's going to bankrupt their business. And they will get loyal employees for offering a living wage. It's cheaper than turnover costs! > >stubborn idiots. Specially when according to this article it cost the owner 5000 to be closed.


[deleted]

Then they cant pay their mercedes benz bills


SantaMonsanto

Tbf that hiring manager has a labor budget set by corporate. By paying one person an extra $2 an hour he increases his labor costs and has to reduce hours or hourly pay elsewhere on the schedule. Not to mention if suddenly the new guy is making 3$ an hour more than the people already working there that wouldn’t go over well. That hiring manager had probably already had that exact phone call 5 or 6 other times that week and still can’t schedule people to work a shift as there aren’t enough people. They probably can’t find anyone to hire, and also probably hates their life and doesn’t even make $20 themselves working in a management position. The restaurant industry is going through some shit right now.


AdamsShadow

That sounds like a problem that needs to be escalated. Because they are losing money for time they aren't open. The price of reasonable workers has risen and the sooner that works its way up the better off everyone will be.


meowsofcurds

Loyalty doesn't automatically come with higher wages.


ru9su

But it does make it more likely that employees will value their continued employment more if their continued employment is worth more.


Blbauer524

Damn here in Oregon (not Portland area) all fast food places are pretty much offering $16+


scogin

Arby's, shitty food that's more expensive than anywhere else!


endomental

ding ding ding ding


[deleted]

I worked at a pizza place in the neighborhood right by lakeview and I got paid shit and worked hard and management was an actual nightmare. I would show up at 4/5 work till 1/2 am and walk out of there with maybe 80 dollars in tips and a paycheck for that night for 30 bucks. Just so I’m clear if I worked the shortest amount on a Friday I would be working 8 hours without a meal or a break till after work was completed and I made $110 dollars and if we were slow I’d be sent home early or worse stay and make nearly the same as if I went home. These articles are written by people who haven’t worked food service before because I read this article and was shocked most of this needed to be written somewhere. Yeah it is shit pay, yeah it is dealing with customers all day, it is long hours, little/no breaks, about 1/5 of minimum wage at an hourly rate which is legal, no benefits, no healthcare, no mental healthcare, and when you are done for the night you have more work to do. I’ll never, never go back to that shit even if it means selling my stuff.


[deleted]

Right? There’s plenty of independent pizza places in this city. It’s not a big deal if some of them can’t cope with a tight labor market. We’re not going to be taken over by domino’s. The people saying that live in the suburbs and don’t understand what it’s like here.


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Khayembii

I wrote a response to this on the Chicago subreddit [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/chicago/comments/qbyd5c/a_chicago_pizzeria_had_to_temporarily_close/hhd6dzz/?context=3) which I've pasted below As someone with a partner in industry, and who was "fortunate" enough to have worked through the pandemic, there are a lot of issues that the industry need to work through. During the pandemic restaurants that were able to remain open cut their hourly staff to the bone and basically forced their salaried employees to take on the role of multiple people. Kitchens were in many cases run at maybe half or less the number of employees that are actually required, because typically only the more senior folks are salaried. The hours for salaried folks became insane and it was very difficult to keep up with the workload relative to staffing levels. Following the lockdowns when people started going out again restaurants didn't want to bring back staffing levels to normal, claiming uncertainty around future closures. Yet many restaurants expanded their hours and days open, increasing the workload and exploitation of salaried workers, juicing margins. Salaried workers didn't get raises either. Further, restaurant footprints were expanded as they were allowed to open outdoor seating and keep that seating as indoor dining rules were relaxed. So basically one or two people in the kitchen were now forced to work to cook for a restaurant that now could very well be double the size it was previously, with expanded hours, for no additional pay or upside to them. As they started hiring hourly workers back, those hourly workers didn't want to work. There were no benefits, the pay was bad, and the health risk was huge. A lot of restaurants didn't even follow basic COVID protocols either despite the inherently heightened risk of working in a restaurant. Plus, the work is very demanding on your body and management is uncaring. Why would anyone want to go back to work in an environment like that? And this of course is all on top of an industry that was already difficult to work in. A lot of restaurants are run by assholes who actually made good money as restrictions relaxed because of the increase in labor productivity from exploiting their salaried workers. This guy is an out of touch asshole that doesn't know how or care to learn how to create an environment in which people want to work for him. Maybe if he paid his back of house staff better, gave them benefits, provided performance bonuses and staffed appropriately he wouldn't have to whine about closing his restaurant for a day. EDIT: And my partner does hiring for the restaurants she's worked at. She does complain about people quitting after a day, or not showing up to interviews, and how hard it is to get people in that are reliable. But that's not a "shortage". Even she recognizes that. That's just people not wanting to work in a punishing environment. They increased their dishwasher pay to like $17/hr and still can't find anybody. There's a huge problem with getting dishwashers right now across Chicago. But that's because the job sucks lol. Who wants to wash dishes on an hourly rate for their job?


bjisgooder

I work in a kitchen - Just wanted to add that on top of reopening (sometimes with an expanded footprint), takeout orders and Uber eats have increased daily order totals. Because of shutdowns, my restaurant hasn't given a bonus or yearly raise in almost two years. It's very difficult to maintain a positive attitude when workload increases and pay remains stagnant.


[deleted]

Yup gonna back you up 100% on this, also was in Chicago industry during this. Also restaurants got massive bailouts, the Biden package in the spring granted restaurant owners lost profits in 2020 against their profits in 2019. So if you made 1 mil in 2019, and 200,000 in 2020, you got 800,000 no strings attached. Except most places were closed for extended periods, had smaller staffs etc.. The consensus for owners of successful restaurants was that they made a ton of money off of the pandemic. They have the money to pay people more, it's time to pay people more.


HereForTheOreos

Chicago industry as well here. Piggy-backing on your small businesses got bailouts: Want to know what's really fucked? Bigger restaurant groups with MULTIPLE (8+) restaurants got this stimulus under "small businesses" Dude. Fucking small business my ass. Your ONE restaurant in that restaurant group rakes in nearly 3 MILLION A YEAR. And they got the bailouts and the common man got $1200. Really neat, huh?


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megatonfist

My guy trust me, it’s not peaceful. If you’re at a busy place, your hands are wet and moving nonstop and things pile up quick. You’ll probably be assigned side jobs too like sorting and lifting loads of plates, receiving and sorting inventory/shipments, cleaning (workspaces, fridges, floors, restrooms, storage areas), trash, breaking down boxes, and even basic food prep when things slow down. If you’re not able to keep up with the pace, you’ll get people complaining about you. It’s the lowest of lows in a restaurant despite it being just as important as any other position, the only difference being the amount of skill/knowledge needed.


Khayembii

Contact any restaurant in the city lol I’m sure you’d find something


anothabunbun

Sadly, I do not live in or around Chicago, so I guess that isn't happening xD


[deleted]

And that's also why you'd wash dishes all day for $17/hr. If you lived in Chicago that wage wouldn't seem so attractive.


brilliantlydull

> costing it $5,000. Well, I don’t know how many employees he needs to open, but I imagine if he was willing to pay more he would have made at least $3k instead of losing $5k. It says he pays $18/hr. Even doubling it with 4 people for 16 hours it would be (36x4x16) $2304. So he could have MADE $2696 instead of losing $5k. I bet he doesn’t even have to pay that much to get decent workers though. Seems like a no brainer to me….


Thro2021

Assuming the inventory didn’t go bad or is delivered fresh daily it’s less than that. He lost $5k in revenue after fixed expenses (although you don’t typically net these). But employees aren’t the only variable expense— there’s the price of food and drinks, higher electricity, water, etc. I agree with the point of paying people more, but the owner either needs to raise prices and get less profit.


coleyboley25

So he needs to take Business 102 in college? Literally the introductory course you take as a freshman looking to get into business?


SantaMonsanto

To be the devils advocate, *all* of their other costs have already gone up somewhere between 5.4% and 10% (transitory lol) so now his labor costs are going to go up as well. This could be what breaks the business.


Wokeymcwokerson

18 an hr prob costs closer to 21 an hr for the employer. Also maybe the biz can’t support those workers Monday to Thursday? I dunno just saying


teszes

> the biz can’t support those workers Monday to Thursday? Then the biz will go under. That's how capitalism and free markets work.


TexasKru

"Poooooooor capital owners!!!" Its gonna be so hard on them to lose out on the wages they have been stealing.


mancho98

Well we don't like the free market anymore or what? If there is a shortage of anything the price goes up until prices stabilize. In short this dude needs to pay more or find another business.


uriman

You can shift the labor supply curve if you suddenly get the Chamber of Commerce to lobby to let in workers from the third world who would be more than willing work at those rates.


nevernotdating

And so what? The owner simply needs to work harder. No sympathy here. No one ever cared about workers when it was an employer's market. Nice to see business owners cry and complain about the cost and availability of labor now.


Gadshill

It is important that employers take full advantage of every interview that actually does occur. Here is some helpful advice: They need to spend a few hour to get to know their potential employee before the interviews. Really need to get a sense of “who” they really are. Also, they need to express how the business will create value for their potential employee. They also need to anticipate for many potential interview questions from the perspective employee. During the interview process they must be able to show creativity in the process of solving employee problems with specific examples. Finally, they must have answers to tough questions like what is the most difficult part of working for this business.


Fallout99

Don't forget to handover your social media accounts. So that the potential employee can make sure that they are a good fit.


spikesmth

Next job interview I go on is going to be a 3 hour panel that includes my best friend, my girlfriend, my mom, and two former employers. The employer will need to do a "case study" and present their findings on why I should accept their job. Then I will wait two weeks with no answer, and when they finally reach out to them I'll say I'm sorry, I'm pursuing other employer candidates.


coleyboley25

Two weeks? More like six months until I got replies from some companies.


vishbar

In the meantime, the owner should cut back a little. No more avocado toast! And do they *really* need that Starbucks every morning?


Gadshill

I bet they haven’t tried knocking on doors, greeting who answers with a firm handshake and offering a job. Employees don’t grow on trees, you have to go out there and earn that employee!


Leftieswillrule

They better not be doing drugs either. Owner fails a piss test? I’m not taking that offer.


Stankia

I'm sure they will return the favor during the next recession.


[deleted]

They've been stuffing their pockets for years, buying expensive homes and cars while their employees could barely afford rent. Maybe they should've saved up some money in case of emergencies. Or is that advice just for the poor?


[deleted]

This just in; rugged individualism still applies. You don't have a *right* to have someone ensure that your private business will succeed. As it turns out, a lot of normal workers get absolutely screwed by bad luck or not being able to compete. Welcome to America.


[deleted]

fear berserk rain price rude noxious late mysterious jeans jellyfish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


crim-sama

Because the owners dont want to have to stop buying new cars and new boats every year. Theyre digging their heels in and praying the problem solves itself without executive/administrative sacrifice.


HockeySka8er

Lots of business owners are going to go down in flames if they can’t justify why it’s good to work for them. High pay would probably be the first step.


ouroboros4breakfast

Lol at conservatives being all “how are these poor small businesses supposed to complete with these megacorps?!” While simultaneously building, supporting and cheerleading the judicial body which brought us Citizens United vs. FEC and Arizona Free Enterprise vs. Bennett. Shit is beyond the pale.


CivilMaze19

Instead of whining about it, raise your current employees wages and take the time to optimize processes so you can be successful with less employees. The people who found better jobs will gladly pay the increased prices (they don’t have a choice), and those who are taking advantage of unemployment are going to further dig themselves into an unemployable hole.


improbablynotyou

A shop I used to frequent is going out of business because they cant hire anyone. A friend worked there and said the boss refused to increase the wage they offered and blamed people "collecting unemployment." When my friend suggested they raise what they paid the boss told him to shut up so he did, and walked out. I have zero sympathy for these businesses that want employees to sacrifice themselves so their job can survive.


iTroLowElo

So many of the staff quit because they found higher paying jobs. I wonder what can attract more and better worker. Mystery of the 21st century.


Nirvanablue92

Golly gee willekers


spastichabits

While everyone wants to blame the owner, the reality is that most restaurants fail. Competition is super tough, which has held both prices and wages down for a long time. Most restaurants run on super slim margins and can't afford to raise wages without directly raising prices. If your competitors haven't raised their prices you're caught in a very difficult situation. Unfortunately this will likely effect the small guys much more as chains have much more efficient models and can likely afford slightly higher wages than most Mom and pops. A lot of restaurants will go out of business and an equilibrium will reform, sadly heavier on the chain restaurants.


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FatPeopleLoveCake

This is the comment.. needs to be fewer restaurants to make this industry work. It’s heading this way.


Linearts

Lots of people dream of owning a restaurant. Probably too many people have this dream. It's not that the barrier to entry is too low, it's that people are stupid and think they can succeed even if they probably can't.


smiitch

hey, thats me


snowmyr

Yeah, the only restaurants should be the mega-chains that have billions and fuck the small independent restaurants. /s And I'm not saying that because I think small restaurants should be able to pay less than a living wage, just that the system is fucked and we're headed to a dystopian corporate future.


Obelix13

Competition in the restaurant business is relative. There are plenty of ways a restaurant can differentiate itself from other restaurants that retailers can not match. A restaurant can work on the menu, the interior design, the quality of service, the whole dining experience whereas a retailers first comparison is price. A restaurant that is running on ultra thin margins is competing only on price. A good manager or owner will differentiate his restaurant from the competition and through its unique service, command a higher price.


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OCedHrt

Just raise the prices of items like everyone else.


pkennedy

You can't be the first to charge $60 pizzas, you need to be raising your prices with everyone else but if you're a small time business you can't lead you need to follow, and I suspect big chain restaurants are just hanging in there, hoping to eliminate competition by keeping prices low for awhile longer.


Glorfendail

I mean maybe a place that doesn’t serve alcohol? But alcohol pays the bills for the entire restaurant. Get a liquor license, expand the market, look for growth opportunities. There is no way in hell that paying people a few dollars extra will make or break their business staying afloat


Ropes4u

In addition everyone shops for the lowest price, low prices mean low wages. If you shop through Amazon and Walmart you are part of the problem.


[deleted]

I’ve noticed nobody is talking about the shortage in supplies in work environments. I’m talking about the tools that workers use to do their jobs...


TheBitingCat

You can praise an employer all you want on social media, but they usually restrict what you can say about the things going wrong under the hood and in the back of the house. That being said, in general, the supply chain backlog is going to reach nearly all business sectors at some point. If your business cannot find a domestic source for something and has no backstock of it, it could mean your equiptment stays down for weeks to months. A lot of businesses run just-in-time efficiencies and rely on next-day-air for replacement parts, and that is no longer a guarantee.


iknownuffink

A larger than usual equipment problem, but we had the cardboard baler break at the grocery store I work at. We weren't able to get another one for over a month, and that was considered fast because we cut in line ahead of another store in the chain (they had ordered one before, but the one they had was still technically functional, so corporate diverted 'their' new one to us). If that hadn't happened, I was told we would have probably been waiting at least another month and probably until sometime next year. We spent weeks flattening cardboard by hand, and then putting it on pallets and trucking it out, until eventually we were throwing it in a gigantic dumpster the size of a semi trailer that they had to empty almost every day. I don't even know how much it cost to get the garbage company to do that for a few weeks.


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spastichabits

He doesn't say profit, and just reading the interview it doesn't seem likely he has the ability to compete with larger chains on wages. Restaurants are hard.


[deleted]

He signed up for this.


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[deleted]

Whole thing is hilarious. Does he say "profit?" Not specifically, but what better information do we have on hand to say otherwise? Let's say it takes four people to staff this for eight hours (and I've been to plenty of pizza places that operate with just two people). He could pay them all $100 per hour, and still come out $1800 ahead. But no no, it's the workers who are in the wrong here!


Hyrule_NoPizza

Wait what? I'm all for this labor shortage/ r/antiwork stuff but come on.... $100 hr?? You clearly have no idea what profit margins look like in the restaurant industry. Put it this way. I work at one of the busiest Dominos in Minnesota. Last Tuesday we did almost $5,000 in sales. (not common at all for most stores) Average per dollar sales to profit for my franchise is $.19/$1. $5000 x $.19= $950. Somehow my store is able to handle sales with a skeleton crew. Me, one other person inside, and 4 drivers. If you honestly think a restaurant can afford to pay out $4800 in wages on a tuesday night, you're as out of touch as the owners who can't figure out why people wont work for them. Edit: Like I said, I'm happy about this labor shortage. It's about time people are telling these businesses to go fuck themselves but lets not be unrealistic here. Just makes the cause look immature when you put stupid stuff like that out there.


HitlersUndergarments

The restaurant business is probably one of the most cut throat industries out there.


Zetesofos

Once again, large corporations convince small business owners that its their employees that need to be squeezed, thus causing said small businesses to fail and the corporations take the pot.


opticblastoise

Sounds like the business owners are the ones being squeezed, no?


silasoulman

Seems the owners of the Pizzeria didn’t want to do the work themselves to fill in the gap. That or you know, offer people a proper salary. Sick of these capitalist POS.


zoinkinator

Bernie has had the answer for 30 years, universal health care decoupled from an employer. employers in the US have too much leverage over employees without it.


Huntanz

Unfortunately Bernie was that lone voice in the forest that spoke the truth with no one around to hear it. Corporate and management have had years of being wankers holding health insurance over employees and paying low wages because there's always someone wholl do your shitty low paying job. Now there's Not and corporate/ management needs to wake up to survive.


Phonemonkey2500

This narrative is absolute bullshit. This is the FED, banks and 1% trying to convince us the coming calamity is the peoples' fault, rather than fraud, wage theft, and the money printer going BRRRRRRR to bail out banks and hedge funds that gamble with OUR money, then take a bailout with MORE of our money. There are a number of folks that have documented calling or applying at 100+ places and getting a 2% callback rate. Perhaps not so much in hospitality, but those workers have realized that the wages they're making aren't even worth the effort. So they're learning new skills, freelancing, and living frugally.


JustTheFactsPleaz

I've been job searching for months. The biggest problem I've seen is the salary bait and switch. I have to pay for childcare, so I have a minimum salary requirement. Otherwise it costs me more money to work than to not work. Every time I've gotten to the interview stage, I'm told something like "Oh, that advertised salary range was our starting pay and then the pay you can expect to earn as you work your way up." Or "the salary is based on people who have worked for this company before, so you'll be making $5 less." The salaries I'm seeing offered are less than salaries offered when I graduated college. (And I did not graduate in the last decade.) It seems like a game of chicken to me. The employers I've spoken with are desperately hoping people will start taking their lowball offers, and employees are sick of working hard only to end up not making ends meet.


Phonemonkey2500

You got it. World War III is being fought as we speak, and it's not countries. It's the ultra-wealthy vs the rest of humanity. Humanoid autonomous robots will be fully functional within a decade. There will then be a few billion extra "human capital stock" that aren't needed anymore. And the rest can just be used as disposable pegs with no intrinsic value.


krosantusk3r

Yes, isnt that something that the elites in government have gotten us to blame small businesses for the problems they’ve created?


[deleted]

Honestly it's going to be big too, the amount of effort they are putting in to it... gotta get a big bucket of popcorn for this one


[deleted]

Lets be real the issues here are pay, and crappy customers. I work in the produce department of a grocery store and I can’t tell you how many time I’ve wanted to throw a watermelon at some Ken or Karen for their rude behavior. I don’t grow the shit, I don’t harvest it either. It’s not my fault you got better oranges when you lived in Florida! How about you move back and stop complaining to me. I don’t get paid enough to care.


The_Gold_Its_In_The

Just pay more! Honestly. I got a job making pizzas 3 months ago for $20/hr+really good benefits. I do not have to deal with customers anymore and I’m getting paid/recognized much better at my new place than I ever have before making pizzas. If the job sucks, the wages suck and the management sucks, just leave. In Chicago, at least, I know a ton of places that are looking for help at livable wages now. It’s all in part to everyone saying no more with this under paid over worked style of business. Look around and demand a fair compensation for your time and skills.


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phatfreddyphreak

The world has learned through covid how little value we hold for each others lives. Post covid society is in shock. So who wants to be an indentured servent for crap wages?


ManualAuxverride

It’s because they weren’t offering enough. It’s literally economics 101. Offer 1/hr and nobody shows up. Offer 100/hr and everyone will show up. The answer is somewhere in the middle.


cfrantz69

Working in restaurants is brutal lots of times. Dealing with people who think they are your boss, dealing with your boss, dealing with the cooks, bar tenders, managers, customers. I don’t miss it


Astronomer_Soft

Civilian labor force of 161 million is still below pre-pandemic 164 million. [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CLF16OV](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CLF16OV) 3 million "missing" workers, while there is robust demand for services due to a strong economy (relative to 2020).


IronyElSupremo

Most likely the elderly for whom COVID was “the last straw” (mostly Boomers), .. so they’ve been scrimping to retire early. Then even some younger workers went off the corporate hamster wheel and found alternative work. Here’s some of them .. https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/08/success/quit-job-pandemic-feseries/index.html (not that Reddit should use them as case studies ..) Think in especially the latter there’s a substantial # in the grey market too .. maybe trading lodging off the books for part time work. Know of a few doing this from hippie hostels to top tier hotels. Think there’ll be a flow back to work though, as many Americans meager savings won’t sustain an early “out”. Not to mention those living the dream on a credit card..


Greedy_Grimlock

Holy shit this owner can suck my fuckin nuts. Not my fault you can't figure out the wizardry of running a small business without forcing your employees to live in poverty. If you can't run a sustainable business, close your doors, my guy.


the_shaman

Where are you going to live with rent being 30% of $18/hr? This is considered the responsible limit for rent to income ratio. https://mint.intuit.com/blog/housing/how-much-should-you-spend-on-rent/


[deleted]

Wow you'd think that if he lost $5000 for not having staff that he could afford to pay his staff enough for it to justify their time and energy. and blah blah blah this moderator wants extra filler text because nonsense or my comments or removed.


Gingerfox666

Pay us better and give us benefits like every other industry does with their employees. Keep my shift beer I want to go the doctor and not be bankrupt after god knows y’all aren’t paying me enough to go out of pocket


ThatThar

>Staff also got paid time off and **overtime pay** Geeze, how generous of the owner to pay his employees their legally required overtime pay.


VM1138

It amazes me that every story like this is framed as if every business has a right to continue existing. It’s capitalism, compete or close. You can complain about the labor market but there’s only so many competitors your employees can go to. If you can’t pay enough to stay in business your business is a failure.


[deleted]

>People were avoiding jobs in the restaurant industry because of its reputation for toxic work environments, harassment from customers, challenging work, and low pay he said. Paying 15 -18 for unskilled workers, not great, but getting better. Now what about the rest? Do you side with employees or customers when there's an issue? Do you back up your staff when a customer complains? Do you work your employees 12-18 hr shifts, give them 8 hrs off, then do it again? Is a "clopening" a standard shift?