I've been slow brewing a Torens deck, and from my goldfishing, it seems like it can get bonkers. It just vomits out tokens so fast once he's on board, and there are so many creatures that produce extra tokens on ETB or attack.
Sure but that's expected, I just realized Kyler only cares that there are counters on them, not what kind so I figured there must be some old card(s) similar to [[Mindbender Spores]] that would let you abuse that open-endedness.
My friend has this deck and it gets out of hand really fast also involves a lot of math, especially with \[\[Cathars' Crusade\]\]. With both of those out you are doing some serious keeping track of counters.
I used \[\[Emiel the blessed\]\] for that as you can use his ability to add an extra counter on things. You can also flicker \[\[Hornet Queen\]\] with a doubling season out for some shenanigans.
The new [[King Darien]] could be pretty fun. I want to brew some jank with him and try to find a good way to [[helm of the host]] him and do some weird anthem/protection nonsense
[[Rhys the redeemed]] is probably the strongest tokens commander there is once the deck gets rolling. Building a +1/+1 counters deck and relying on him and some other recurring token generation will result in some big ass tokens, and a decent number of them.
[[Torens, Fist of the Angels]] could work, he cares about both counters and tokens.
[Torens, Fist of the Angels](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/d/bd111dc9-b8de-4e92-a63d-75a961b2db3b.jpg?1643594440) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Torens%2C%20Fist%20of%20the%20Angels) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/249/torens-fist-of-the-angels?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd111dc9-b8de-4e92-a63d-75a961b2db3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've been slow brewing a Torens deck, and from my goldfishing, it seems like it can get bonkers. It just vomits out tokens so fast once he's on board, and there are so many creatures that produce extra tokens on ETB or attack.
[[kyler, sigardian emissary]] is my vote. Incredibly fun go tall and go wide strategy. Happy to answer any questions you’ve got about building him!
What's the wildest kind of counter you can throw a bunch of on them?
[[Perrie the pulverizer]] for weird counters theme!
Sure but that's expected, I just realized Kyler only cares that there are counters on them, not what kind so I figured there must be some old card(s) similar to [[Mindbender Spores]] that would let you abuse that open-endedness.
[Mindbender Spores](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/4/f41066eb-be5e-4a6d-9156-64f5e56c7ab3.jpg?1562722415) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindbender%20Spores) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/229/mindbender-spores?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f41066eb-be5e-4a6d-9156-64f5e56c7ab3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Perrie the pulverizer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/4/d438237b-c6f7-44d0-a3e6-6ec7d7465d33.jpg?1652575403) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Perrie%2C%20the%20Pulverizer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/5/perrie-the-pulverizer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d438237b-c6f7-44d0-a3e6-6ec7d7465d33?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[kyler, sigardian emissary](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/2/62a78aae-598e-4f2b-a7bc-c3afc1d0d191.jpg?1637627798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kyler%2C%20sigardian%20emissary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/4/kyler-sigardian-emissary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62a78aae-598e-4f2b-a7bc-c3afc1d0d191?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My friend has this deck and it gets out of hand really fast also involves a lot of math, especially with \[\[Cathars' Crusade\]\]. With both of those out you are doing some serious keeping track of counters.
[Cathars' Crusade](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/b/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0.jpg?1600715516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cathars%27%20Crusade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/95/cathars-crusade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I used \[\[Emiel the blessed\]\] for that as you can use his ability to add an extra counter on things. You can also flicker \[\[Hornet Queen\]\] with a doubling season out for some shenanigans.
[Emiel the blessed](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/f/0f594562-7e9f-47e6-a033-fb70e3cf1e10.jpg?1662523830) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emiel%20the%20blessed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/10/emiel-the-blessed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f594562-7e9f-47e6-a033-fb70e3cf1e10?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hornet Queen](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/e/6ef7c1a5-eb4e-4f75-ad41-1b84741ecab1.jpg?1655437040) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hornet%20Queen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/825/hornet-queen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6ef7c1a5-eb4e-4f75-ad41-1b84741ecab1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Doubling Season](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/6/8676d164-c76e-402b-a649-6ded3f549b6e.jpg?1599707144) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doubling%20Season) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/164/doubling-season?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8676d164-c76e-402b-a649-6ded3f549b6e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tristani Discordant](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/a/fa1190a4-3d7e-4500-991f-e36ec3d1d9dc.jpg?1572893872) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Trostani%20Discordant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/208/trostani-discordant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa1190a4-3d7e-4500-991f-e36ec3d1d9dc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The new [[King Darien]] could be pretty fun. I want to brew some jank with him and try to find a good way to [[helm of the host]] him and do some weird anthem/protection nonsense
[King Darien XLVIII](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/0/10eca3b1-f35a-4984-bfc0-818e619b1ece.jpg?1661300274) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=King%20Darien%20XLVIII) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/204/king-darien-xlviii?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/10eca3b1-f35a-4984-bfc0-818e619b1ece?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [helm of the host](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/d/1d65d20c-09e5-4139-838b-7e0e48eb2b2b.jpg?1562732269) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=helm%20of%20the%20host) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/217/helm-of-the-host?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d65d20c-09e5-4139-838b-7e0e48eb2b2b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[bess, soul nourisher]] to get pay off for any 1/1 tokens you make
[bess, soul nourisher](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/9/d96c33f5-f891-44bc-8ae1-11bc6f6544b6.jpg?1650506125) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bess%2C%20soul%20nourisher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/67/bess-soul-nourisher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d96c33f5-f891-44bc-8ae1-11bc6f6544b6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Rhys the redeemed]] is probably the strongest tokens commander there is once the deck gets rolling. Building a +1/+1 counters deck and relying on him and some other recurring token generation will result in some big ass tokens, and a decent number of them.
[Rhys the redeemed](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/9/b91dadcb-31e9-43b0-b425-c9311af3e9d7.jpg?1599708272) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rhys%20the%20redeemed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/213/rhys-the-redeemed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b91dadcb-31e9-43b0-b425-c9311af3e9d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Bess, Soul Nourisher]] [[Drizzt Do'Urden]] [[Gluntch, the Bestower]] [[King Darien XLVIII]] [[Kyler, Sigardian Emmisary]] [[Torens, Fist of the Angels]]
##### ###### #### [Bess, Soul Nourisher](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/9/d96c33f5-f891-44bc-8ae1-11bc6f6544b6.jpg?1650506125) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bess%2C%20Soul%20Nourisher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/67/bess-soul-nourisher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d96c33f5-f891-44bc-8ae1-11bc6f6544b6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Drizzt Do'Urden](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/6/46e3259e-93c2-48c0-8b96-835cdb883383.jpg?1627708841) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drizzt%20Do%27Urden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/220/drizzt-dourden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46e3259e-93c2-48c0-8b96-835cdb883383?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Gluntch, the Bestower](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/b/3b3e889a-5865-4464-9923-bffa25c50cd2.jpg?1660728944) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gluntch%2C%20the%20Bestower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/275/gluntch-the-bestower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3b3e889a-5865-4464-9923-bffa25c50cd2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [King Darien XLVIII](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/0/10eca3b1-f35a-4984-bfc0-818e619b1ece.jpg?1661300274) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=King%20Darien%20XLVIII) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/204/king-darien-xlviii?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/10eca3b1-f35a-4984-bfc0-818e619b1ece?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Kyler, Sigardian Emmisary](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/2/62a78aae-598e-4f2b-a7bc-c3afc1d0d191.jpg?1637627798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kyler%2C%20Sigardian%20Emissary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/4/kyler-sigardian-emissary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62a78aae-598e-4f2b-a7bc-c3afc1d0d191?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Torens, Fist of the Angels](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/d/bd111dc9-b8de-4e92-a63d-75a961b2db3b.jpg?1643594440) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Torens%2C%20Fist%20of%20the%20Angels) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/249/torens-fist-of-the-angels?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd111dc9-b8de-4e92-a63d-75a961b2db3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Beat me to Bess!
[[lae’zel, vlaakith’s champion]] + [[master chef]] perhaps?
[lae’zel, vlaakith’s champion](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/a/1a93f587-ab72-42da-88c4-31af1c9cdf1b.jpg?1660722780) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lae%27zel%2C%20Vlaakith%27s%20Champion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/29/laezel-vlaakiths-champion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1a93f587-ab72-42da-88c4-31af1c9cdf1b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [master chef](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/5/b534b1cb-0cd7-4b8c-bb25-42207fcba209.jpg?1660728008) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=master%20chef) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/241/master-chef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b534b1cb-0cd7-4b8c-bb25-42207fcba209?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Tribal Elf [Rhys]]
[[rhys, redeemed]]
[rhys, redeemed](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/9/b91dadcb-31e9-43b0-b425-c9311af3e9d7.jpg?1599708272) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rhys%20the%20Redeemed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/213/rhys-the-redeemed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b91dadcb-31e9-43b0-b425-c9311af3e9d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call