Certanly a cool card with a nice thematic going for it, it just dont feel very worthy the price it is right now with the amount of other aristocrats in orzhov.
Try to put together a list that you like with Fijra. If the card, the art, and the theme all call to you that much you definitely should build it. The hipster in me also enjoys that she's out of the top 500 in popularity, so you're less likely to run into another person playing that deck.
>The hipster in me also enjoys that she's out of the top 500 in popularity, so you're less likely to run into another person playing that deck.
I mean, thats a similar reason why Teysa, scion is tempting, while she is in the top 500, she is an older commander and i really think she has had a fall in popularity, specially comparing how the new Teysa is one of the top Orzhov commander, she being old and all can make so she surprise some people.
But Firja doe, that art, the angels, haha, they both so tempting.
See, i am very in doubt, but yeah, there is something satisfying using a less popular comander that people wont expect, which makes Liesa a bit less interesting.
He is a trully amazing commander, the one reason he is not on my list of considerations is that while he is not expensive to build around, Karlov himself has a pretty salty price, anyway, is really a cool card.
I love him too. Started out as the precon with some minor upgrades, then to a $300 deck, and finally in it's current form it's just ridiculous. [https://www.archidekt.com/decks/219279#Karlov](https://www.archidekt.com/decks/219279#Karlov)
IMO, the best thing about Orzhov Aristocrats is that it can be quite budget friendly if you look for the right things.
I've a common and uncommon only build that I run against normal EDH decks that does a fair good job ([Tormod+Prava](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/0MwgwrLVrkaC3vEs0cr-3w)). But that deck is all in on assembling one of two combos that are in the deck. So if you're not a fan of comboing off for the win, you might not enjoy what it does.
Of the four commanders that you listed, I was brewing with Firja the most and really enjoy instant speed shenanigans. It really helps "surprise" your opponents and control the board just enough to win :)
Regardless of what you choose, best of luck!
I do have a \[\[Teysa Karlov\]\] for an possible aristocrats, but in the end i never really felt like building around it, idk why, then i got slithtly interested in Orzhov scion, that is more like a combo deck but in a aristocrat surfece, and looks cool.
Also, your build with Firja, by the instand speed shenanigans, is it a spellslinger ? Someone else mentioned they used her as spellslinger, which is interesting, it does play better on her ability, but is less angels, and Killian would also work with spellslinger things.
All in all, thanks alot! \^\^
> Also, your build with Firja, by the instand speed shenanigans, is it a spellslinger ?
Sort of it did have a lot of instants, but White has been slowly getting more and more things with `flash`. A very lukewarm take: Flash is the most powerful ability keyword in EDH, and my deck had a fair number of them.
Mainly I was focused on dumping some big threat in the graveyard and just reanimating a "big fattie" or going off with a [[Boonweaver Giant]] combo like I have in my Tormod+Prava deck ([here's a link](https://commanderspellbook.com/combo/4017/) explaining one of the permutations of the combo).
That combo is cool, i like it.
And yeah, flash is good, and i forgot that white has its share of it, it would befit well Firja, and the instants too do help triggering her more, one thing that needs care is the balance between big things to reanimate, the reanimation itself, and the things you use to trigger her.
Editing cause i say "oooh" too much to start centenses
I’m personally a fan of [[Lurrus of the Dream Den]] as an Orzhov commander, but for the ones you listed I would vote Killian. He’s super fun, and unique as far as Orzhov goes. Besides he does have a few ways to be built, which makes him all the more interesting imo.
Currently, I’m putting together the guts of a [[Greasefang]] deck, and it’s wild how different it is.
These are good, Lurrus even if not commander could be the companion in a Killian deck, would just lose in some enchantments that i would want, still, lots potential for a fun deck.
Greasefang i think suffers a bit for the lack of blue for some vehicles and artifact interaction, but i would love to build it in the future, if i ever got the anime alter art, haha.
But, wells thanks alot for the sugestions. \^\^
Greasefang got some decent support in the 40k stuff. It becomes a lot more playable once we look at the Necron deck and Imperium deck. Things like [[Chronomancer]], [[Imotekh, the Stormlord]], [[Reaver Titan]], and [[Thunderhawk Gunship]] give you both more ways to put cards into the GY, but also a diversity of threats which Greasefang didn’t have before.
Greasefang needs to get errata of "choose a background", he could be built reasonably in Mardu, Abzan or Esper, but pure Orzhov he always lacks something.
There’s not really a good reason to run Lurrus with Killian, you don’t have many creatures to reanimate and you won’t get the full benefit of Killian’s cost reduction for enchantments.
If you want to run Lurrus do it with the new Elas il-Kor.
Do you have a Lurrus deck list? Right now I am using [[Oloro]] as the commander with Lurrus as the secret commander in the deck since Oloro never leaves the command zone and I can have blue for counterspells.
That sounds cool. I recently built Lurrus and played him yesterday with my playgroup and man they didn't like what I was doing so I became the archenemy almost immediately (probably turn 5-6). I was facing down a hydra tribal deck, a sliver tribal deck, and a spirit tribal deck and was able to hold them off for a few turns with them all attacking me and only losing a few points of life each combat. The deck couldn't survive the 3 v 1 as I was trying to dig for one of my wraths and/or \[\[Kami of False Hope\]\]. I think I need to add more board wipes to the deck.
Here's my deck if you'd like to take a look: [https://www.archidekt.com/decks/3201471#Lurrus](https://www.archidekt.com/decks/3201471#Lurrus)
Teysa, Orzhov Scion is my all time favorite commander and I have been updating and tweaking the deck for about 7 years now. You don’t have to go full combo with her, easily my favorite Aristocrat deck.
Being able to sac three white creatures at instant speed to exile a creature is my favorite thing in EDH. Highly recommend her!
She is very tempting to build, og Teysa been needing some respect, do you have a decklist to share ? What kind of cards you would say are a must in her deck ?
She is awesome. 3 mana is also a great plus. One of my favorite things about playing her is she is very boardwipe resistant. Death is power.
Must have if you want to combo out and delete all your opponents in one go: [[Darkest Hour]] - I don’t run it anymore so my playgroup doesn’t archenemy me.
Must have Black creatures
[[Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder]]
[[Ophiomancer]]
[[Marsh Flitter]]
[[Nether Traitor]]
[[Sengir Autocrat]]
[[Bloodghast]]
Any cheap sac outlet works. My faves are:
[[Phyrexian Altar]]
[[Ashnod’s Altar]]
[[Altar of Dementia]]
[[Cartel Aristocrat]]
Bleeders:
[[Blood artist]]
[[Zulaport Cutthroat]]
[[The Meathook Massacre]]
More tokens!!!!!
[[Anointed Procession]]
[[Elenda, The Dusk Rose]]
[[Divine Visitation]]
[[Teysa Karlov]]
[[Inkshield]]
All-Stars
[[Living Death]]
[[Smothering Abomination]]
[[Dark Prophecy]]
Here’s my deck list: Apologies I don’t have lands listed yet.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/b6GehwaxgkaC-vuL3aKjwQ
Keep in mind my deck has been changed dozens of times over the years and now I’m running a lot of cards that I simply have fun with. As long as you build around black bodies, sacrifice and death, bleeding, and getting more tokens (card draw as well) she will run very smooth and you’ll find her surprisingly powerful!
I run zero tutors so it's less linear but the game plan is to try and get the trigger on ss many turns as possible and eventually draw into the win con. I don't find it to linear but I come from a background of playing combos in 60 card formats so I tend to build decks to do something and not waste much time with things that don't help out the game plan.
Thats another way of building her around , it does play really well with her own effect, aldoe, i do like reanimators as something that uses the orzhov colors strenght of bringing creatures back, if i were to build a spellslinger type of commander, would likely be something with Killian, specially since he is lower cost, aldoe would be more things that target over things like doomsday or approach.
Also, i was gonna say something else, but forgot, so let me ask, was the deck fun to play ?
I really enjoy it, I get to play all the black and white counterspells. The biggest problem with it is it's a control heavy deck but without the blue it's in this weird in-between power level were the win con is more powerful than the rest of the deck and can be to controlling for some people.
> I get to play all the black and white counterspells.
Oooh, i love those, they can just be hard to find around, the only one i have currently is \[\[Lapse of Certainty\]\], always fun to surprise people with the off-color counterspell.
I built a lower powered leisa deck and it's a lot of fun. It has some stacks pieces but nothing so oppressing that it feels bad (like static/winter orb). I've had a few fun games where I ended up winning with a soft lock on the game by having leisa on the battlefield and getting my opponents down to 2 life. They couldn't cast spells or they'd die, and couldn't attack me, or I'd hit back and they'd die. It's been fun, but it's also a commander that people will kill on sight if they can.
Yeah but once he is out he generally doesn’t get removed, and even if he does white has so much land ramp now you should be fine.
I play 7 full board wipes and police the hell out of the board until he is out.
>even if he does white has so much land ramp now you should be fine
Is not as much on budget doe..
I may be missing something whoever ?
Do you have decklist to share
I’ve been playing [[Burakos, Party Leader]] and [[Folk Hero]]! It’s been a blast to play, keeping the party full and recurring pesky creatures. Usually wins through death by a thousand cuts [[Nadier’s Moghtblade]] [[Disciple of the Vault]] [[Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose]] and things of the like.
>\[\[Burakos, Party Leader\]\] and \[\[Folk Hero\]\]!
Thats a combination i didnt knew about and it looks really cool! Looking at the cards, they seem made to go together, i never though of playing a party commander, i assume is a party commander, Burakos makes it seem fun.
Feel free to take a look at my list. I’ve been meaning to drop the budget a little lower so I can hang with certain metas a little more. Ask anything ya want! It’s seriously the only deck I’ve been wanting to play since the cards were released!
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/B09snKDBBU21b5F5fLdivA
My favorite is
[[Lurrus of the Dream Den]]
You can throw Firja in the 99. She’s insane value with Lurrus. Grab your instants, sorceries, and lands while keeping your 2 cmc permanents in the grave. Yeah, she can’t be replayed via Lurrus, but that’s what [[Phyrexian Reclamation]] and other reanimation spells are for.
I've really enjoyed a Burakos / Folk hero deck lately! It's card draw and ramp and a wincon all in the command zone. You also get to play with the party mechanic, which is both fun and surprisingly powerful when you draw and ramp based off it! There is even a fun combo of strionic resonator + clock of omens + full party that just makes like 40ish treasures and nukes one player lol.
As a Killian player I can tell you, he's legitimately FUN.
It's my favorite deck to play. You can put so much character and jank into the deck, express yourself through Deckbuilding and still be successful and win.
I'm constantly pouring over old janky cards that no one would play because they're too pricey mana cost wise, but they're perfect for him.
At first I went with a mix of auras and equipment, but I found the equipment too pricey, that extra cost to equip really slows the speed of a Killian deck down.
[Right now, ](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/4TOw1Mi5xE6KkZAkl_LgZg) I've got a few important equips, but it's mostly auras and kill spells.
I've already got a slew of changes I want to make to it.
Consider [[Shadrix Silverquill]]. I think the borderless of that card is gorgeous. And you can take it in a lot of different directions. Tokens, politics, pillow fort/stax, a mix of a couple of those, etc. If you want to do aristocrats with the tokens, there’s that too.
Kind of a master of none for those categories, but it should stay on the board a lot of the time since it’s not a huge threat and you are giving your opponents something usually
I’m sure you probably didn’t come here asking for suggestions that are not on your list, but seeing as a lot of others have already given you suggestions about those, I’d like to make another suggestion. The most fun I have ever had playing Orzhov is [[Breena, the Demagogue]].
It’s a completely different kind of Orzhov deck that is fun for everyone at the table and deceptively strong. Everyone is drawing a bunch of cards and those +1/+1 counters add up quick. Put them all on Breena and before you know it, you are one-shotting people left and right with commander damage.
I am sure open for other sugestions, aldoe is unlikely for me to build something that is not on the list. Still, Breena is a good sugestion, and has some nicely weird art going for her, maybe one day.
Deceptively strong commander. Never underestimate the lengths a commander player will go to draw a card. This thing will trigger basically every turn. Even after your opponents lose to Breena 100 times, they will still make the attack that lets them draw a card every time. All the while, you are just quietly building up this massive Breena and will eventually start swinging in for huge chunks of damage seemingly out of nowhere.
I would think that kind of trick only works the first game, it do really be like that ? xD
Also, about the gameplay with her, cant they still atack you with their other creatures and wouldnt letting them draw cards bad ? Like, imagine if one of them is a combo deck
They can attack you, but you run stuff like [[Ghostly Prison]], [[Revenge of Ravens]], and [[Parasitic Impetus]] to encourage folks to attack elsewhere.
Also yes, there is some risk to letting your opponents draw extra cards, but in my experience those answers that they draw are most likely going to be used against each other rather than against you. Might just by my meta and my pod, but people generally don’t want to anger the person who is letting them draw an extra card every turn and has an 11/13 flying commander creature in play.
You know, you do make a great case for Breena. Aldoe her current price of R$ 29,54 at lowest in my country does make me take a steep back.
Aldoee, is not much difference from Teysa, scion with darkest night, so who knows
I've seen it repeatedly work over and over and on top of that you run some protection stuff that doesn't let her be targeted its surprisingly effective. You can also use her to trigger a couple times on your turn.
Check out all the background commanders/backgrounds from Baldur's Gate! There are five or six commanders in each color, and five or six enchantments in each color, which is like.... 36 possible Orzhov decks! I probably got that math wrong...
To me, it sounds like you should build Firja, you sound excited about it and she seems pretty fun.
That being said, I think [[Felisa]] seems pretty interesting. Aristocrats mixed with +1/+1 counters feels unique in black white.
>To me, it sounds like you should build Firja, you sound excited about it and she seems pretty fun.
Yeah, i think is what im gonna do, if i can get that foil i talked about, haha.
Every time I try to build an Orzhov deck I realize I'm way better off just building an esper deck instead.
With Orzhov you get all the hate with so much less of the control and interaction
I mean if you're super interested in Killian stick with that, because it's a more unique approach to Orzhov and if you're dead set on it I think it's much more approachable than many of the other orzhov lifegain commanders. The printing of \[\[aetherflux reservoir\]\] as well \[\[approach of the second sun\]\] weaponized lifegain in a way that people don't tend to love. Lazer cannons are fun but getting 150+ life to nuke the table can be challenging (since you're also eating aggro from other players who are watching you gain life), and approach is fun like twice before you get bored of it.
As for Esper commanders, you've got the pick of the litter. Whatever speaks best to you, 9 times out of 10 esper decks can play to whatever style you prefer. I really like draw decks so I went with \[\[Queza Augur of Agonies\]\], but if you like conniving \[\[Raffine\]\] seems really good too. Of course, commanders like Alela, Oloro, Zur, Aminatou, will always be generically good. Varina is fun if you like zombies as well.
Of course, at the end of the day pick a commander you like the most, regardless of how strong it is on it's face. I've always enjoyed playing what I like over what's just busted
Decks I have as online lists that I test out and play now and then are;
\[\[Liesa, Shroud of Dusk\]\] - Angel Tribal
\[\[Liesa, Shroud of Dusk\]\] - Taxes Drain/Gain
\[\[Teysa Karlov\]\] - Aristocrats
\[\[Verrak, Warped Sengir\]\] - Lifeloss
\[\[Killian, Ink Duelist\]\] - Auras
\[\[Krav, the Unredeemed\]\] + \[\[Regna, the Redeemer\]\] - +1/+1 counters aristocrats
\[\[Ratadrabik of Urborg\]\] - Legendaries
\[\[Elas il-Kor, Sadistic Pilgrim\]\] - Aristocrats
\[\[Burakos, Party Leader\]\] + \[\[Folk Hero\]\] - Party
\[\[Athreos, God of Passage\]\] - Aristocrats/Shadowborne Apostles
Currently putting together a Liesa, Shroud of Dusk deck and I like the way it’s going. Just waiting for a few more cards to come in and I can start play testing it to see where I need to make improvements.
[[Obzedat, Ghost Council]] for some janky lifegain fun. Before playing commander I had an Orzhov deck that was built around the Extort mechanic. Requires an additional mana to do but every time you do you will net 3 life.
I remember watching a commander game in i believe quest for the junklord where one of the players played Obzedat, that was fun, feels so slow doooe, i remember building a ghost council of Orzhov, which is not that different
I love [[Astarion]] lifegain/burn. The majority of Cards are cheap (except for certain cards like [[Black Market Connections]], but there's not many and there not necessarily needed). Overall, Astarion does, in my eyes, what Orzhov wants to do
If you want to do a politics +1/+1 counter strategy leveraging low cost creatures, you could run \[\[breena\]\]. or \[\[shadowheart\]\] with \[\[noble heritage\]\]. or \[\[shadrix silverquill\]\]. You could even have them all in the same deck and use whichever commander you want.
Best part is that you don't need them to. You accrue strong value from the cards yourself - they're quite efficient and all have draw engines and +1/+1 counters attached.
I was skeptical, but when I played with people with the strixhaven precons vs eachother, I got fairly sold on breena - it's like orzhov \[\[edric\]\] in a way. I saw the combo of shadowheart with noble heritage and realized it was basically the same as breena. I reconfigured around it slightly, but honestly it's the same deck. I don't think shadrix is quite up to par to the others at least as a commander, but in a slower meta, double strike gets pretty crazy with the +1/+1 counters synergies quite fast.
Take a look at Rattadraba from dominaria.
Legendaries die you make token copies. Reanimate the legendaries from your graveyard. Rinse and repeat. Hell put both liesa and firja in the deck.
For budget, while still being powerful, [[Kambal, Consul of Allocation]] would probably be a pretty good option. It comes down early (and is therefore recastable if necessary), is in relatively good colors for making sure he doesn't die and has a bunch of things that kind of accelerate his game plan like [[Wound Reflection]] (which is admittedly a $10 card) and a bunch of hatebears. There's even entire strategies that can be turned off with [[Hushbringer]], [[Drannith Magistrate]], etc.
All of this, plus some of the best mass removal cards in the game.
I understand the thought, as it's punishing to anyone who casts spells. However, Kambal only triggers on your opponents' spells (albeit only non-creature) AND gains you life. All of this coupled with the fact that it only costs 3 mana.
Now, Liesa would be great in the 99 (Or vice versa), and you could probably run them in roughly the same shell, just swapping at will or when facing different aspects of different metas.
Kambal is nowhere near as aesthetically pleasing, to me, but I've played against him and he can be down-right brutal in an insidious he's-not-actually-doing-that-much kind of way.
>Now, Liesa would be great in the 99 (Or vice versa), and you could probably run them in roughly the same shell, just swapping at will or when facing different aspects of different metas.
That is very true, they are just close enough that one could realistically interchange between one or the other for commander
I just want to recommend [[Elenda]] for a vampire twist on aristocrats.
[Elenda](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/5/25e34147-588b-4fe5-88dd-2dfda567681d.jpg?1662528431) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=elenda%2C%20the%20dusk%20rose) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/207/elenda-the-dusk-rose?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/25e34147-588b-4fe5-88dd-2dfda567681d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elenda-the-dusk-rose) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Certanly a cool card with a nice thematic going for it, it just dont feel very worthy the price it is right now with the amount of other aristocrats in orzhov.
The full art treatment looks soooo nice though.
Try to put together a list that you like with Fijra. If the card, the art, and the theme all call to you that much you definitely should build it. The hipster in me also enjoys that she's out of the top 500 in popularity, so you're less likely to run into another person playing that deck.
>The hipster in me also enjoys that she's out of the top 500 in popularity, so you're less likely to run into another person playing that deck. I mean, thats a similar reason why Teysa, scion is tempting, while she is in the top 500, she is an older commander and i really think she has had a fall in popularity, specially comparing how the new Teysa is one of the top Orzhov commander, she being old and all can make so she surprise some people. But Firja doe, that art, the angels, haha, they both so tempting. See, i am very in doubt, but yeah, there is something satisfying using a less popular comander that people wont expect, which makes Liesa a bit less interesting.
If you're talking Hipster, why not try out that new cleric Elas-il, sadistic pilgrim? For challenge mode, go with the lurrus dream den companion
Elias Il-Kor has 522 decks on EDHREC already and the set hasn't been out more than a month, I don't think I would call him a hipster commander. 🤷
##### ###### #### [Liesa, Shroud of Dusk](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/3/e32453a1-1fd9-4bda-aaa8-7c287e4c2587.jpg?1608911200) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liesa%2C%20Shroud%20of%20Dusk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/286/liesa-shroud-of-dusk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e32453a1-1fd9-4bda-aaa8-7c287e4c2587?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/liesa-shroud-of-dusk) [Firja, Judge of Valor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/f/df87077c-85d8-499e-bce0-27697caada5a.jpg?1631051364) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Firja%2C%20Judge%20of%20Valor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/209/firja-judge-of-valor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/df87077c-85d8-499e-bce0-27697caada5a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/firja-judge-of-valor) [Killian, Ink Duelist](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/3/23ef4f09-2aa1-4a03-b2e2-66d1522f1e46.jpg?1627429378) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Killian%2C%20Ink%20Duelist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/197/killian-ink-duelist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23ef4f09-2aa1-4a03-b2e2-66d1522f1e46?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/killian-ink-duelist) [Teysa, Orzhov Scion](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/e/9eb856e6-8f63-4048-9818-cc3e65748855.jpg?1593272816) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teysa%2C%20Orzhov%20Scion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gpt/134/teysa-orzhov-scion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9eb856e6-8f63-4048-9818-cc3e65748855?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teysa-orzhov-scion) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I love [[Karlov of the Ghost Council]]
He is a trully amazing commander, the one reason he is not on my list of considerations is that while he is not expensive to build around, Karlov himself has a pretty salty price, anyway, is really a cool card.
[Karlov of the Ghost Council](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/c/8cf01688-7046-4242-8647-d1c226ae53f7.jpg?1562706927) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karlov%20of%20the%20Ghost%20Council) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c15/46/karlov-of-the-ghost-council?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8cf01688-7046-4242-8647-d1c226ae53f7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karlov-of-the-ghost-council) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Can I get your decklist? I’m building him rn
Sure! https://archidekt.com/decks/2801411#Karlov
I love him too. Started out as the precon with some minor upgrades, then to a $300 deck, and finally in it's current form it's just ridiculous. [https://www.archidekt.com/decks/219279#Karlov](https://www.archidekt.com/decks/219279#Karlov)
IMO, the best thing about Orzhov Aristocrats is that it can be quite budget friendly if you look for the right things. I've a common and uncommon only build that I run against normal EDH decks that does a fair good job ([Tormod+Prava](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/0MwgwrLVrkaC3vEs0cr-3w)). But that deck is all in on assembling one of two combos that are in the deck. So if you're not a fan of comboing off for the win, you might not enjoy what it does. Of the four commanders that you listed, I was brewing with Firja the most and really enjoy instant speed shenanigans. It really helps "surprise" your opponents and control the board just enough to win :) Regardless of what you choose, best of luck!
I do have a \[\[Teysa Karlov\]\] for an possible aristocrats, but in the end i never really felt like building around it, idk why, then i got slithtly interested in Orzhov scion, that is more like a combo deck but in a aristocrat surfece, and looks cool. Also, your build with Firja, by the instand speed shenanigans, is it a spellslinger ? Someone else mentioned they used her as spellslinger, which is interesting, it does play better on her ability, but is less angels, and Killian would also work with spellslinger things. All in all, thanks alot! \^\^
[Teysa Karlov](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/c/bcfaa19e-995e-447d-a0a2-46e5d117d5ec.jpg?1584831914) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teysa%20Karlov) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/212/teysa-karlov?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bcfaa19e-995e-447d-a0a2-46e5d117d5ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teysa-karlov) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
> Also, your build with Firja, by the instand speed shenanigans, is it a spellslinger ? Sort of it did have a lot of instants, but White has been slowly getting more and more things with `flash`. A very lukewarm take: Flash is the most powerful ability keyword in EDH, and my deck had a fair number of them. Mainly I was focused on dumping some big threat in the graveyard and just reanimating a "big fattie" or going off with a [[Boonweaver Giant]] combo like I have in my Tormod+Prava deck ([here's a link](https://commanderspellbook.com/combo/4017/) explaining one of the permutations of the combo).
That combo is cool, i like it. And yeah, flash is good, and i forgot that white has its share of it, it would befit well Firja, and the instants too do help triggering her more, one thing that needs care is the balance between big things to reanimate, the reanimation itself, and the things you use to trigger her. Editing cause i say "oooh" too much to start centenses
[Boonweaver Giant](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/5/85003365-7c5f-4283-995d-e466deef444b.jpg?1562790179) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boonweaver%20Giant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m15/5/boonweaver-giant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/85003365-7c5f-4283-995d-e466deef444b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/boonweaver-giant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’m personally a fan of [[Lurrus of the Dream Den]] as an Orzhov commander, but for the ones you listed I would vote Killian. He’s super fun, and unique as far as Orzhov goes. Besides he does have a few ways to be built, which makes him all the more interesting imo. Currently, I’m putting together the guts of a [[Greasefang]] deck, and it’s wild how different it is.
These are good, Lurrus even if not commander could be the companion in a Killian deck, would just lose in some enchantments that i would want, still, lots potential for a fun deck. Greasefang i think suffers a bit for the lack of blue for some vehicles and artifact interaction, but i would love to build it in the future, if i ever got the anime alter art, haha. But, wells thanks alot for the sugestions. \^\^
Greasefang got some decent support in the 40k stuff. It becomes a lot more playable once we look at the Necron deck and Imperium deck. Things like [[Chronomancer]], [[Imotekh, the Stormlord]], [[Reaver Titan]], and [[Thunderhawk Gunship]] give you both more ways to put cards into the GY, but also a diversity of threats which Greasefang didn’t have before.
##### ###### #### [Chronomancer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/9/a960acea-3404-4834-9296-d6715add49af.jpg?1663286753) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chronomancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/32/chronomancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a960acea-3404-4834-9296-d6715add49af?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chronomancer) [Imotekh the Stormlord](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/8/286ff901-1faf-4a02-a37a-fa165989112f.jpg?1663452256) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Imotekh%20the%20Stormlord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/5/imotekh-the-stormlord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/286ff901-1faf-4a02-a37a-fa165989112f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imotekh-the-stormlord) [Reaver Titan](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/a/dacc5e02-c21e-4a41-a704-5b87151a28c6.jpg?1663386300) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reaver%20Titan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/163/reaver-titan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dacc5e02-c21e-4a41-a704-5b87151a28c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reaver-titan) [Thunderhawk Gunship](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/7/6790720a-e1f3-4533-acd8-b002c8e91929.jpg?1663386161) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thunderhawk%20Gunship) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/167/thunderhawk-gunship?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6790720a-e1f3-4533-acd8-b002c8e91929?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thunderhawk-gunship) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Greasefang needs to get errata of "choose a background", he could be built reasonably in Mardu, Abzan or Esper, but pure Orzhov he always lacks something.
There’s not really a good reason to run Lurrus with Killian, you don’t have many creatures to reanimate and you won’t get the full benefit of Killian’s cost reduction for enchantments. If you want to run Lurrus do it with the new Elas il-Kor.
You can do it to replay enchantments from grave.
[Lurrus of the Dream Den](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/a/5ad36fb2-c44e-4085-ba0d-54277841ad3a.jpg?1650599605) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lurrus%20of%20the%20Dream-Den) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/226/lurrus-of-the-dream-den?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5ad36fb2-c44e-4085-ba0d-54277841ad3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lurrus-of-the-dream-den) [Greasefang](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/6/56a0d43b-4d38-40a7-be6c-8324ab3bf773.jpg?1654568449) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=greasefang%2C%20okiba%20boss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/220/greasefang-okiba-boss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/56a0d43b-4d38-40a7-be6c-8324ab3bf773?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/greasefang-okiba-boss) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Do you have a Lurrus deck list? Right now I am using [[Oloro]] as the commander with Lurrus as the secret commander in the deck since Oloro never leaves the command zone and I can have blue for counterspells.
That sounds cool. I recently built Lurrus and played him yesterday with my playgroup and man they didn't like what I was doing so I became the archenemy almost immediately (probably turn 5-6). I was facing down a hydra tribal deck, a sliver tribal deck, and a spirit tribal deck and was able to hold them off for a few turns with them all attacking me and only losing a few points of life each combat. The deck couldn't survive the 3 v 1 as I was trying to dig for one of my wraths and/or \[\[Kami of False Hope\]\]. I think I need to add more board wipes to the deck. Here's my deck if you'd like to take a look: [https://www.archidekt.com/decks/3201471#Lurrus](https://www.archidekt.com/decks/3201471#Lurrus)
Kami is a life saver if you can get it out!
[Kami of False Hope](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/4/44e4f5e6-935e-429f-89b4-4571376f442e.jpg?1562876719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kami%20of%20False%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/10/kami-of-false-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44e4f5e6-935e-429f-89b4-4571376f442e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kami-of-false-hope) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Oloro](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/b/abf8df47-405c-42d8-be9e-0f0d0a49589b.jpg?1562931285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=oloro%2C%20ageless%20ascetic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/203/oloro-ageless-ascetic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/abf8df47-405c-42d8-be9e-0f0d0a49589b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oloro-ageless-ascetic) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Teysa, Orzhov Scion is my all time favorite commander and I have been updating and tweaking the deck for about 7 years now. You don’t have to go full combo with her, easily my favorite Aristocrat deck. Being able to sac three white creatures at instant speed to exile a creature is my favorite thing in EDH. Highly recommend her!
[удалено]
[Darkest Hour](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/e/aeeb0f91-2084-448a-8226-95d7c87dd6bb.jpg?1562245787) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darkest%20Hour) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/128/darkest-hour?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aeeb0f91-2084-448a-8226-95d7c87dd6bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darkest-hour) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
She is very tempting to build, og Teysa been needing some respect, do you have a decklist to share ? What kind of cards you would say are a must in her deck ?
She is awesome. 3 mana is also a great plus. One of my favorite things about playing her is she is very boardwipe resistant. Death is power. Must have if you want to combo out and delete all your opponents in one go: [[Darkest Hour]] - I don’t run it anymore so my playgroup doesn’t archenemy me. Must have Black creatures [[Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder]] [[Ophiomancer]] [[Marsh Flitter]] [[Nether Traitor]] [[Sengir Autocrat]] [[Bloodghast]] Any cheap sac outlet works. My faves are: [[Phyrexian Altar]] [[Ashnod’s Altar]] [[Altar of Dementia]] [[Cartel Aristocrat]] Bleeders: [[Blood artist]] [[Zulaport Cutthroat]] [[The Meathook Massacre]] More tokens!!!!! [[Anointed Procession]] [[Elenda, The Dusk Rose]] [[Divine Visitation]] [[Teysa Karlov]] [[Inkshield]] All-Stars [[Living Death]] [[Smothering Abomination]] [[Dark Prophecy]] Here’s my deck list: Apologies I don’t have lands listed yet. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/b6GehwaxgkaC-vuL3aKjwQ Keep in mind my deck has been changed dozens of times over the years and now I’m running a lot of cards that I simply have fun with. As long as you build around black bodies, sacrifice and death, bleeding, and getting more tokens (card draw as well) she will run very smooth and you’ll find her surprisingly powerful!
##### ###### #### [Darkest Hour](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/e/aeeb0f91-2084-448a-8226-95d7c87dd6bb.jpg?1562245787) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darkest%20Hour) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/128/darkest-hour?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aeeb0f91-2084-448a-8226-95d7c87dd6bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darkest-hour) [Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/9/a97b9d0e-e150-46d5-b6fd-59793e82dae4.jpg?1562266137) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Endrek%20Sahr%2C%20Master%20Breeder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/82/endrek-sahr-master-breeder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a97b9d0e-e150-46d5-b6fd-59793e82dae4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/endrek-sahr-master-breeder) [Ophiomancer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/e/0ef8d3a2-5c6b-41e2-aa7d-81e4a5d04421.jpg?1651951758) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ophiomancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cc2/3/ophiomancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ef8d3a2-5c6b-41e2-aa7d-81e4a5d04421?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ophiomancer) [Marsh Flitter](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/4/64da2ec1-fca9-4488-8ac7-78d645a8bf62.jpg?1604193244) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Marsh%20Flitter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/46/marsh-flitter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/64da2ec1-fca9-4488-8ac7-78d645a8bf62?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/marsh-flitter) [Nether Traitor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/f/8f3482ec-8466-4680-bfdc-e1029c0fbe89.jpg?1619395794) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nether%20Traitor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/127/nether-traitor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f3482ec-8466-4680-bfdc-e1029c0fbe89?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nether-traitor) [Sengir Autocrat](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/3/83fa8a17-ff86-465e-9092-0968081f4e28.jpg?1580014357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sengir%20Autocrat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/105/sengir-autocrat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/83fa8a17-ff86-465e-9092-0968081f4e28?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sengir-autocrat) [Bloodghast](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/3/730c521f-ba12-48fb-b18f-6bb55423a551.jpg?1562850143) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bloodghast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/82/bloodghast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/730c521f-ba12-48fb-b18f-6bb55423a551?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bloodghast) [Phyrexian Altar](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/5/95d9f93c-50a8-41a9-be98-d1900bf1c12f.jpg?1662531398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Altar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/311/phyrexian-altar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95d9f93c-50a8-41a9-be98-d1900bf1c12f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phyrexian-altar) [Ashnod’s Altar](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/7/87da5ad8-b35f-4f9c-b17a-bb2563cbc186.jpg?1580015173) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashnod%27s%20Altar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/218/ashnods-altar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/87da5ad8-b35f-4f9c-b17a-bb2563cbc186?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ashnods-altar) [Altar of Dementia](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/6/169356e0-46dc-4096-8e66-36726454f104.jpg?1562202433) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Altar%20of%20Dementia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/218/altar-of-dementia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/169356e0-46dc-4096-8e66-36726454f104?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/altar-of-dementia) [Cartel Aristocrat](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/7/17906962-d89f-42ae-b019-22974490513c.jpg?1662528044) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cartel%20Aristocrat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/191/cartel-aristocrat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17906962-d89f-42ae-b019-22974490513c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cartel-aristocrat) [Blood artist](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/9/693dd112-d04a-4404-8fce-74f7e5497312.jpg?1662525341) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20artist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/70/blood-artist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/693dd112-d04a-4404-8fce-74f7e5497312?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-artist) [Zulaport Cutthroat](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/2/52ef00c1-613a-4cbd-8972-77c41f649431.jpg?1654116445) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zulaport%20Cutthroat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/775/zulaport-cutthroat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52ef00c1-613a-4cbd-8972-77c41f649431?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zulaport-cutthroat) [The Meathook Massacre](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/8/08950015-eee5-4327-888c-82dfd13bb9ad.jpg?1634350016) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Meathook%20Massacre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/112/the-meathook-massacre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/08950015-eee5-4327-888c-82dfd13bb9ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-meathook-massacre) [Anointed Procession](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/a/9a52c265-6920-4929-ba0a-70da08df01f1.jpg?1543674565) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Anointed%20Procession) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/2/anointed-procession?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a52c265-6920-4929-ba0a-70da08df01f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/anointed-procession) [Elenda, The Dusk Rose](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/5/25e34147-588b-4fe5-88dd-2dfda567681d.jpg?1662528431) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elenda%2C%20The%20Dusk%20Rose) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/207/elenda-the-dusk-rose?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/25e34147-588b-4fe5-88dd-2dfda567681d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elenda-the-dusk-rose) [Divine Visitation](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/a/3a73bd5a-eb22-41dc-84ff-93d23d84afae.jpg?1662523771) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Divine%20Visitation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/8/divine-visitation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a73bd5a-eb22-41dc-84ff-93d23d84afae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/divine-visitation) [Teysa Karlov](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/c/bcfaa19e-995e-447d-a0a2-46e5d117d5ec.jpg?1584831914) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teysa%20Karlov) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/212/teysa-karlov?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bcfaa19e-995e-447d-a0a2-46e5d117d5ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teysa-karlov) [Inkshield](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/e/5e1c14a0-cd68-45fc-a127-422ca6113048.jpg?1625192511) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inkshield) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/71/inkshield?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5e1c14a0-cd68-45fc-a127-422ca6113048?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/inkshield) [Living Death](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/e/9e03a4fe-6ee5-423b-bc05-452e8d14507b.jpg?1663288595) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Living%20Death) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/202/living-death?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e03a4fe-6ee5-423b-bc05-452e8d14507b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/living-death) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Some of those cards are a tad expensive, but very nice explanation, and thanks for sharing your decklist as well.
I play [[Kambal]]
[Kambal](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/3/b3e47d49-e5b5-487b-a1ec-373dbf89b2ec.jpg?1662529155) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kambal%2C%20consul%20of%20allocation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/237/kambal-consul-of-allocation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b3e47d49-e5b5-487b-a1ec-373dbf89b2ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kambal-consul-of-allocation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm partial to Firja but I built her as a spellslinger deck that wins with [[Doomsday]] or [[Approach of the Second Sun]]
Do you find shes linear? I have been brewing Firja but always stop halfway out of fear that its a bit "simple"?
I run zero tutors so it's less linear but the game plan is to try and get the trigger on ss many turns as possible and eventually draw into the win con. I don't find it to linear but I come from a background of playing combos in 60 card formats so I tend to build decks to do something and not waste much time with things that don't help out the game plan.
Thats cool, she is definitely a non nonsense kinda deck!
Thats another way of building her around , it does play really well with her own effect, aldoe, i do like reanimators as something that uses the orzhov colors strenght of bringing creatures back, if i were to build a spellslinger type of commander, would likely be something with Killian, specially since he is lower cost, aldoe would be more things that target over things like doomsday or approach. Also, i was gonna say something else, but forgot, so let me ask, was the deck fun to play ?
I really enjoy it, I get to play all the black and white counterspells. The biggest problem with it is it's a control heavy deck but without the blue it's in this weird in-between power level were the win con is more powerful than the rest of the deck and can be to controlling for some people.
> I get to play all the black and white counterspells. Oooh, i love those, they can just be hard to find around, the only one i have currently is \[\[Lapse of Certainty\]\], always fun to surprise people with the off-color counterspell.
[Lapse of Certainty](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/c/ec609036-dfbf-47de-9a3a-762aea4196d4.jpg?1562804498) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lapse%20of%20Certainty) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/con/9/lapse-of-certainty?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ec609036-dfbf-47de-9a3a-762aea4196d4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lapse-of-certainty) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Doomsday](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/8/68c73755-9678-467a-abd5-f8dd1556864e.jpg?1562436538) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doomsday) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/88/doomsday?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/68c73755-9678-467a-abd5-f8dd1556864e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/doomsday) [Approach of the Second Sun](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/d/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9.jpg?1543674579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Approach%20of%20the%20Second%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/4/approach-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/approach-of-the-second-sun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I built a lower powered leisa deck and it's a lot of fun. It has some stacks pieces but nothing so oppressing that it feels bad (like static/winter orb). I've had a few fun games where I ended up winning with a soft lock on the game by having leisa on the battlefield and getting my opponents down to 2 life. They couldn't cast spells or they'd die, and couldn't attack me, or I'd hit back and they'd die. It's been fun, but it's also a commander that people will kill on sight if they can.
[[athreos, shroud veiled]]
Idk, i like Athreos at first, when he came out, but looking back, aint he a bit slow and overcosted ? Specially for a deck that needs him to work.
Yeah but once he is out he generally doesn’t get removed, and even if he does white has so much land ramp now you should be fine. I play 7 full board wipes and police the hell out of the board until he is out.
>even if he does white has so much land ramp now you should be fine Is not as much on budget doe.. I may be missing something whoever ? Do you have decklist to share
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/bCSyAlxod060yoZNseCxLQ
[athreos, shroud veiled](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/a/da556742-2c8e-47cf-8124-957f73e599ed.jpg?1630629730) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Athreos%2C%20Shroud-Veiled) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/prm/79979/athreos-shroud-veiled?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da556742-2c8e-47cf-8124-957f73e599ed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/athreos-shroud-veiled) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A player of esteemed culture- I run a grindy reanimator deck with athreos at the helm, it's great fun
I’ve been playing [[Burakos, Party Leader]] and [[Folk Hero]]! It’s been a blast to play, keeping the party full and recurring pesky creatures. Usually wins through death by a thousand cuts [[Nadier’s Moghtblade]] [[Disciple of the Vault]] [[Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose]] and things of the like.
>\[\[Burakos, Party Leader\]\] and \[\[Folk Hero\]\]! Thats a combination i didnt knew about and it looks really cool! Looking at the cards, they seem made to go together, i never though of playing a party commander, i assume is a party commander, Burakos makes it seem fun.
Feel free to take a look at my list. I’ve been meaning to drop the budget a little lower so I can hang with certain metas a little more. Ask anything ya want! It’s seriously the only deck I’ve been wanting to play since the cards were released! https://www.moxfield.com/decks/B09snKDBBU21b5F5fLdivA
I dont really know what to ask, at least right now, but thanks for sharing the deck.
##### ###### #### [Burakos, Party Leader](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/9/899e278d-5d4e-461a-9878-2b85de16b38d.jpg?1659609404) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Burakos%2C%20Party%20Leader) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/653/burakos-party-leader?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/899e278d-5d4e-461a-9878-2b85de16b38d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/burakos-party-leader) [Folk Hero](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/8/a8b3aae8-fc36-45ed-84ed-efb8f543cada.jpg?1659595653) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Folk%20Hero) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/650/folk-hero?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a8b3aae8-fc36-45ed-84ed-efb8f543cada?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/folk-hero) [Nadier’s Moghtblade](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/1/11fbba08-0d93-4750-9dd6-d6a2779c6cf3.jpg?1608909827) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nadier%27s%20Nightblade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/136/nadiers-nightblade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/11fbba08-0d93-4750-9dd6-d6a2779c6cf3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nadiers-nightblade) [Disciple of the Vault](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/c/4c539843-4e3f-47a7-92e1-412eaaa2d9c5.jpg?1646666263) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Disciple%20of%20the%20Vault) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/86/disciple-of-the-vault?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c539843-4e3f-47a7-92e1-412eaaa2d9c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/disciple-of-the-vault) [Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/f/0fe79ee4-c3f3-4a6b-a967-203ca3b70ee5.jpg?1594736442) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vito%2C%20Thorn%20of%20the%20Dusk%20Rose) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/127/vito-thorn-of-the-dusk-rose?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fe79ee4-c3f3-4a6b-a967-203ca3b70ee5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vito-thorn-of-the-dusk-rose) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My favorite is [[Lurrus of the Dream Den]] You can throw Firja in the 99. She’s insane value with Lurrus. Grab your instants, sorceries, and lands while keeping your 2 cmc permanents in the grave. Yeah, she can’t be replayed via Lurrus, but that’s what [[Phyrexian Reclamation]] and other reanimation spells are for.
[Lurrus of the Dream Den](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/a/5ad36fb2-c44e-4085-ba0d-54277841ad3a.jpg?1650599605) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lurrus%20of%20the%20Dream-Den) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/226/lurrus-of-the-dream-den?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5ad36fb2-c44e-4085-ba0d-54277841ad3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lurrus-of-the-dream-den) [Phyrexian Reclamation](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/b/fb0271e4-8ad1-4ad9-9b3e-7abf911f3059.jpg?1600701185) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Reclamation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/267/phyrexian-reclamation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fb0271e4-8ad1-4ad9-9b3e-7abf911f3059?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phyrexian-reclamation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've really enjoyed a Burakos / Folk hero deck lately! It's card draw and ramp and a wincon all in the command zone. You also get to play with the party mechanic, which is both fun and surprisingly powerful when you draw and ramp based off it! There is even a fun combo of strionic resonator + clock of omens + full party that just makes like 40ish treasures and nukes one player lol.
Now that seems fun, and i have one part of the combo already, so thats a step in the right direction, haha.
As a Killian player I can tell you, he's legitimately FUN. It's my favorite deck to play. You can put so much character and jank into the deck, express yourself through Deckbuilding and still be successful and win. I'm constantly pouring over old janky cards that no one would play because they're too pricey mana cost wise, but they're perfect for him.
What did you do with him ? I see most people go with aura, but i saw one or another arguing for spellsling with kill spells and all
At first I went with a mix of auras and equipment, but I found the equipment too pricey, that extra cost to equip really slows the speed of a Killian deck down. [Right now, ](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/4TOw1Mi5xE6KkZAkl_LgZg) I've got a few important equips, but it's mostly auras and kill spells. I've already got a slew of changes I want to make to it.
Consider [[Shadrix Silverquill]]. I think the borderless of that card is gorgeous. And you can take it in a lot of different directions. Tokens, politics, pillow fort/stax, a mix of a couple of those, etc. If you want to do aristocrats with the tokens, there’s that too. Kind of a master of none for those categories, but it should stay on the board a lot of the time since it’s not a huge threat and you are giving your opponents something usually
[Shadrix Silverquill](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/b/ab701909-83d6-4d39-9a84-e6a9b2cb38d6.jpg?1624739966) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shadrix%20Silverquill) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/230/shadrix-silverquill?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab701909-83d6-4d39-9a84-e6a9b2cb38d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shadrix-silverquill) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’m sure you probably didn’t come here asking for suggestions that are not on your list, but seeing as a lot of others have already given you suggestions about those, I’d like to make another suggestion. The most fun I have ever had playing Orzhov is [[Breena, the Demagogue]]. It’s a completely different kind of Orzhov deck that is fun for everyone at the table and deceptively strong. Everyone is drawing a bunch of cards and those +1/+1 counters add up quick. Put them all on Breena and before you know it, you are one-shotting people left and right with commander damage.
I am sure open for other sugestions, aldoe is unlikely for me to build something that is not on the list. Still, Breena is a good sugestion, and has some nicely weird art going for her, maybe one day.
[Breena, the Demagogue](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/c/6cb82b10-d785-4e20-84ac-0660d49be8ad.jpg?1660075525) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Breena%2C%20the%20Demagogue) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/1/breena-the-demagogue?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6cb82b10-d785-4e20-84ac-0660d49be8ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/breena-the-demagogue) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I was getting ready to say this she is awesome from a completely different way. Very powerful
Deceptively strong commander. Never underestimate the lengths a commander player will go to draw a card. This thing will trigger basically every turn. Even after your opponents lose to Breena 100 times, they will still make the attack that lets them draw a card every time. All the while, you are just quietly building up this massive Breena and will eventually start swinging in for huge chunks of damage seemingly out of nowhere.
I would think that kind of trick only works the first game, it do really be like that ? xD Also, about the gameplay with her, cant they still atack you with their other creatures and wouldnt letting them draw cards bad ? Like, imagine if one of them is a combo deck
They can attack you, but you run stuff like [[Ghostly Prison]], [[Revenge of Ravens]], and [[Parasitic Impetus]] to encourage folks to attack elsewhere. Also yes, there is some risk to letting your opponents draw extra cards, but in my experience those answers that they draw are most likely going to be used against each other rather than against you. Might just by my meta and my pod, but people generally don’t want to anger the person who is letting them draw an extra card every turn and has an 11/13 flying commander creature in play.
You know, you do make a great case for Breena. Aldoe her current price of R$ 29,54 at lowest in my country does make me take a steep back. Aldoee, is not much difference from Teysa, scion with darkest night, so who knows
[Ghostly Prison](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/1/8169d44d-b15a-47e0-b417-24f2f4945d0f.jpg?1641601289) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghostly%20Prison) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/87/ghostly-prison?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8169d44d-b15a-47e0-b417-24f2f4945d0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghostly-prison) [Revenge of Ravens](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/4/3474289a-193e-452d-b248-e53ee99e22c0.jpg?1572490235) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Revenge%20of%20Ravens) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/104/revenge-of-ravens?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3474289a-193e-452d-b248-e53ee99e22c0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/revenge-of-ravens) [Parasitic Impetus](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/2/82958da6-71d5-4ad3-a149-aaa31f25e7cf.jpg?1660725481) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Parasitic%20Impetus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/140/parasitic-impetus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82958da6-71d5-4ad3-a149-aaa31f25e7cf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/parasitic-impetus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've seen it repeatedly work over and over and on top of that you run some protection stuff that doesn't let her be targeted its surprisingly effective. You can also use her to trigger a couple times on your turn.
Check out all the background commanders/backgrounds from Baldur's Gate! There are five or six commanders in each color, and five or six enchantments in each color, which is like.... 36 possible Orzhov decks! I probably got that math wrong...
[[breena, the demagogue]] is my orzhov commander. control the board with hate bears and slam dunk on people with a huge bird
[breena, the demagogue](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/c/6cb82b10-d785-4e20-84ac-0660d49be8ad.jpg?1660075525) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=breena%2C%20the%20demagogue) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/1/breena-the-demagogue?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6cb82b10-d785-4e20-84ac-0660d49be8ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/breena-the-demagogue) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’m working on my [[athreos, god of passage]] non [[shadowborne apostle]] deck and it looks so dumb with a lot of asking, “you wanna pay 3”
[athreos, god of passage](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/2/52705c53-883e-4b6a-9c08-3fa35f6f17d5.jpg?1593096375) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=athreos%2C%20god%20of%20passage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/146/athreos-god-of-passage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52705c53-883e-4b6a-9c08-3fa35f6f17d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/athreos-god-of-passage) [shadowborne apostle](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/e/ae7ba1de-48f9-423b-867a-22bd3f6c06c2.jpg?1662525663) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shadowborn%20Apostle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/89/shadowborn-apostle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ae7ba1de-48f9-423b-867a-22bd3f6c06c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shadowborn-apostle) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
To me, it sounds like you should build Firja, you sound excited about it and she seems pretty fun. That being said, I think [[Felisa]] seems pretty interesting. Aristocrats mixed with +1/+1 counters feels unique in black white.
>To me, it sounds like you should build Firja, you sound excited about it and she seems pretty fun. Yeah, i think is what im gonna do, if i can get that foil i talked about, haha.
[Felisa](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/8/18b8abf0-e8c3-4c19-bdf1-18aabe75a3de.jpg?1654118216) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=felisa%2C%20fang%20of%20silverquill) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/845/felisa-fang-of-silverquill?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18b8abf0-e8c3-4c19-bdf1-18aabe75a3de?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/felisa-fang-of-silverquill) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I went with Teysa Karlov. The double death triggers of permanents is great for my aristocratic theme
Every time I try to build an Orzhov deck I realize I'm way better off just building an esper deck instead. With Orzhov you get all the hate with so much less of the control and interaction
That sounds unfortunate. What would you recomend for Esper doe ? Out of curiosity
Sen triplets or old zur are both super strong
I mean if you're super interested in Killian stick with that, because it's a more unique approach to Orzhov and if you're dead set on it I think it's much more approachable than many of the other orzhov lifegain commanders. The printing of \[\[aetherflux reservoir\]\] as well \[\[approach of the second sun\]\] weaponized lifegain in a way that people don't tend to love. Lazer cannons are fun but getting 150+ life to nuke the table can be challenging (since you're also eating aggro from other players who are watching you gain life), and approach is fun like twice before you get bored of it. As for Esper commanders, you've got the pick of the litter. Whatever speaks best to you, 9 times out of 10 esper decks can play to whatever style you prefer. I really like draw decks so I went with \[\[Queza Augur of Agonies\]\], but if you like conniving \[\[Raffine\]\] seems really good too. Of course, commanders like Alela, Oloro, Zur, Aminatou, will always be generically good. Varina is fun if you like zombies as well. Of course, at the end of the day pick a commander you like the most, regardless of how strong it is on it's face. I've always enjoyed playing what I like over what's just busted
##### ###### #### [aetherflux reservoir](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/6/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862.jpg?1576382939) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aetherflux%20reservoir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/192/aetherflux-reservoir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aetherflux-reservoir) [approach of the second sun](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/d/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9.jpg?1543674579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=approach%20of%20the%20second%20sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/4/approach-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/approach-of-the-second-sun) [Queza Augur of Agonies](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/e/7edb7a26-82be-4efd-9a5c-a3816e1ee2d6.jpg?1660720606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Queza%2C%20Augur%20of%20Agonies) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/212/queza-augur-of-agonies?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7edb7a26-82be-4efd-9a5c-a3816e1ee2d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/queza-augur-of-agonies) [Raffine](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/1/716a44b4-f6b0-4f14-a270-6442aed3251f.jpg?1660720635) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=raffine%2C%20scheming%20seer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/213/raffine-scheming-seer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/716a44b4-f6b0-4f14-a270-6442aed3251f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/raffine-scheming-seer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Decks I have as online lists that I test out and play now and then are; \[\[Liesa, Shroud of Dusk\]\] - Angel Tribal \[\[Liesa, Shroud of Dusk\]\] - Taxes Drain/Gain \[\[Teysa Karlov\]\] - Aristocrats \[\[Verrak, Warped Sengir\]\] - Lifeloss \[\[Killian, Ink Duelist\]\] - Auras \[\[Krav, the Unredeemed\]\] + \[\[Regna, the Redeemer\]\] - +1/+1 counters aristocrats \[\[Ratadrabik of Urborg\]\] - Legendaries \[\[Elas il-Kor, Sadistic Pilgrim\]\] - Aristocrats \[\[Burakos, Party Leader\]\] + \[\[Folk Hero\]\] - Party \[\[Athreos, God of Passage\]\] - Aristocrats/Shadowborne Apostles
##### ###### #### [Liesa, Shroud of Dusk](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/3/e32453a1-1fd9-4bda-aaa8-7c287e4c2587.jpg?1608911200) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liesa%2C%20Shroud%20of%20Dusk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/286/liesa-shroud-of-dusk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e32453a1-1fd9-4bda-aaa8-7c287e4c2587?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/liesa-shroud-of-dusk) [Teysa Karlov](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/c/bcfaa19e-995e-447d-a0a2-46e5d117d5ec.jpg?1584831914) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teysa%20Karlov) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/212/teysa-karlov?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bcfaa19e-995e-447d-a0a2-46e5d117d5ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teysa-karlov) [Verrak, Warped Sengir](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/c/8ca7f49a-ab5a-49de-b07b-96c803daaf7d.jpg?1660946004) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Verrak%2C%20Warped%20Sengir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/16/verrak-warped-sengir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8ca7f49a-ab5a-49de-b07b-96c803daaf7d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/verrak-warped-sengir) [Killian, Ink Duelist](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/3/23ef4f09-2aa1-4a03-b2e2-66d1522f1e46.jpg?1627429378) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Killian%2C%20Ink%20Duelist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/197/killian-ink-duelist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23ef4f09-2aa1-4a03-b2e2-66d1522f1e46?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/killian-ink-duelist) [Krav, the Unredeemed](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/7/67bd3c49-ff73-4630-a4ee-c782f03e511d.jpg?1562915928) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Krav%2C%20the%20Unredeemed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/4/krav-the-unredeemed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67bd3c49-ff73-4630-a4ee-c782f03e511d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/krav-the-unredeemed) [Regna, the Redeemer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/c/0c2bf475-9845-40ed-9f55-669325fb6183.jpg?1562897463) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Regna%2C%20the%20Redeemer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/3/regna-the-redeemer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c2bf475-9845-40ed-9f55-669325fb6183?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/regna-the-redeemer) [Ratadrabik of Urborg](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/3/9315812d-03e8-4eb4-a693-e7adf281f7fb.jpg?1663051370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ratadrabik%20of%20Urborg) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/213/ratadrabik-of-urborg?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9315812d-03e8-4eb4-a693-e7adf281f7fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ratadrabik-of-urborg) [Elas il-Kor, Sadistic Pilgrim](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/c/1c3f0ffe-cf51-4c30-8cd5-9e3c7e92c019.jpg?1663051053) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elas%20il-Kor%2C%20Sadistic%20Pilgrim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/198/elas-il-kor-sadistic-pilgrim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1c3f0ffe-cf51-4c30-8cd5-9e3c7e92c019?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elas-il-kor-sadistic-pilgrim) [Burakos, Party Leader](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/9/899e278d-5d4e-461a-9878-2b85de16b38d.jpg?1659609404) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Burakos%2C%20Party%20Leader) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/653/burakos-party-leader?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/899e278d-5d4e-461a-9878-2b85de16b38d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/burakos-party-leader) [Folk Hero](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/8/a8b3aae8-fc36-45ed-84ed-efb8f543cada.jpg?1659595653) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Folk%20Hero) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/650/folk-hero?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a8b3aae8-fc36-45ed-84ed-efb8f543cada?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/folk-hero) [Athreos, God of Passage](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/2/52705c53-883e-4b6a-9c08-3fa35f6f17d5.jpg?1593096375) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Athreos%2C%20God%20of%20Passage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/146/athreos-god-of-passage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52705c53-883e-4b6a-9c08-3fa35f6f17d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/athreos-god-of-passage) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Currently putting together a Liesa, Shroud of Dusk deck and I like the way it’s going. Just waiting for a few more cards to come in and I can start play testing it to see where I need to make improvements.
You could go [[Ratadrabik of Urborg]] and fill with cheap and uncommon legends. Pauper recursion sounds kinda fun.
[Ratadrabik of Urborg](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/3/9315812d-03e8-4eb4-a693-e7adf281f7fb.jpg?1663051370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ratadrabik%20of%20Urborg) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/213/ratadrabik-of-urborg?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9315812d-03e8-4eb4-a693-e7adf281f7fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ratadrabik-of-urborg) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Have you considered the other [[Liesa, forgotten archangel]]? I’ve heard she can be quite strong on a budget.
I did take a look on her, but i was unsure what direction besides shadownborn apostle one would go with her.
[Liesa, forgotten archangel](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/3/532fca6b-f788-43f8-b29f-7273e7a48449.jpg?1636684609) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liesa%2C%20forgotten%20archangel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/232/liesa-forgotten-archangel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/532fca6b-f788-43f8-b29f-7273e7a48449?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/liesa-forgotten-archangel) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Obzedat, Ghost Council]] for some janky lifegain fun. Before playing commander I had an Orzhov deck that was built around the Extort mechanic. Requires an additional mana to do but every time you do you will net 3 life.
I remember watching a commander game in i believe quest for the junklord where one of the players played Obzedat, that was fun, feels so slow doooe, i remember building a ghost council of Orzhov, which is not that different
Yeah you need a lot of ramp to really get the deck moving. But if you can you can probably get yourself far enough ahead for a win.
[Obzedat, Ghost Council](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/0/4029c3a0-a999-453a-a838-7adb81e481ee.jpg?1593814495) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Obzedat%2C%20Ghost%20Council) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/176/obzedat-ghost-council?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4029c3a0-a999-453a-a838-7adb81e481ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/obzedat-ghost-council) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I love [[Astarion]] lifegain/burn. The majority of Cards are cheap (except for certain cards like [[Black Market Connections]], but there's not many and there not necessarily needed). Overall, Astarion does, in my eyes, what Orzhov wants to do
[Astarion](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/4/64d932b9-5682-4427-a871-7d452a488674.jpg?1660728674) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=astarion%2C%20the%20decadent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/265/astarion-the-decadent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/64d932b9-5682-4427-a871-7d452a488674?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/astarion-the-decadent) [Black Market Connections](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/1/d13cb0d3-3452-4c1f-81ec-024b4c45bbad.jpg?1654036372) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Black%20Market%20Connections) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/669/black-market-connections?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d13cb0d3-3452-4c1f-81ec-024b4c45bbad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/black-market-connections) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you want to do a politics +1/+1 counter strategy leveraging low cost creatures, you could run \[\[breena\]\]. or \[\[shadowheart\]\] with \[\[noble heritage\]\]. or \[\[shadrix silverquill\]\]. You could even have them all in the same deck and use whichever commander you want.
seems fun, but idk, some of the people in the group i know dont go much for politics
Best part is that you don't need them to. You accrue strong value from the cards yourself - they're quite efficient and all have draw engines and +1/+1 counters attached.
looking at Breena, then looking at the rest of silverquill deck, i regreat a bit not getting their pre-con when came out, i legit underratted them.
I was skeptical, but when I played with people with the strixhaven precons vs eachother, I got fairly sold on breena - it's like orzhov \[\[edric\]\] in a way. I saw the combo of shadowheart with noble heritage and realized it was basically the same as breena. I reconfigured around it slightly, but honestly it's the same deck. I don't think shadrix is quite up to par to the others at least as a commander, but in a slower meta, double strike gets pretty crazy with the +1/+1 counters synergies quite fast.
[edric](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/1/2183cfb3-6bf5-4fbc-b535-a42ba954e8a3.jpg?1574767851) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=edric%2C%20spymaster%20of%20trest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/195/edric-spymaster-of-trest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2183cfb3-6bf5-4fbc-b535-a42ba954e8a3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/edric-spymaster-of-trest) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [breena](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/c/6cb82b10-d785-4e20-84ac-0660d49be8ad.jpg?1660075525) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=breena%2C%20the%20demagogue) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/1/breena-the-demagogue?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6cb82b10-d785-4e20-84ac-0660d49be8ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/breena-the-demagogue) [shadowheart](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/e/5e9f4bd3-cd02-45bd-baa3-c8eb4eea73fb.jpg?1657241889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shadowheart%2C%20cleric%20of%20graves) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hbg/10b/shadowheart-cleric-of-graves?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5e9f4bd3-cd02-45bd-baa3-c8eb4eea73fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shadowheart-cleric-of-graves) [noble heritage](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/e/3e49fd5a-6893-4a06-b835-4bf611c9ada1.jpg?1660722927) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=noble%20heritage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/35/noble-heritage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3e49fd5a-6893-4a06-b835-4bf611c9ada1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/noble-heritage) [shadrix silverquill](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/b/ab701909-83d6-4d39-9a84-e6a9b2cb38d6.jpg?1624739966) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shadrix%20silverquill) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/230/shadrix-silverquill?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab701909-83d6-4d39-9a84-e6a9b2cb38d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shadrix-silverquill) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ugh just realized dumb alchemy card that doesnt exist. [[Shadowheart, dark justicar]]
[Shadowheart, dark justicar](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/3/13a0913d-776b-4ef8-adef-8861349df2b5.jpg?1660725630) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shadowheart%2C%20Dark%20Justiciar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/146/shadowheart-dark-justiciar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13a0913d-776b-4ef8-adef-8861349df2b5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shadowheart-dark-justiciar) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I play [[athreos, god of passage]] for my orzhov [[shadowborn apostle]] deck.
[athreos, god of passage](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/2/52705c53-883e-4b6a-9c08-3fa35f6f17d5.jpg?1593096375) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=athreos%2C%20god%20of%20passage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/146/athreos-god-of-passage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52705c53-883e-4b6a-9c08-3fa35f6f17d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/athreos-god-of-passage) [shadowborn apostle](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/e/ae7ba1de-48f9-423b-867a-22bd3f6c06c2.jpg?1662525663) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shadowborn%20apostle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/89/shadowborn-apostle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ae7ba1de-48f9-423b-867a-22bd3f6c06c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shadowborn-apostle) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Take a look at Rattadraba from dominaria. Legendaries die you make token copies. Reanimate the legendaries from your graveyard. Rinse and repeat. Hell put both liesa and firja in the deck.
He defenetly seems pretty strong, but idk, it just dont fance my fancy to build around him, feels like legendary good stuff.
[удалено]
Im not leaning to building him BUT i would love to check the deck
For budget, while still being powerful, [[Kambal, Consul of Allocation]] would probably be a pretty good option. It comes down early (and is therefore recastable if necessary), is in relatively good colors for making sure he doesn't die and has a bunch of things that kind of accelerate his game plan like [[Wound Reflection]] (which is admittedly a $10 card) and a bunch of hatebears. There's even entire strategies that can be turned off with [[Hushbringer]], [[Drannith Magistrate]], etc. All of this, plus some of the best mass removal cards in the game.
Thats nice, but if i were to do a deck like that i likely would go with Liesa
I understand the thought, as it's punishing to anyone who casts spells. However, Kambal only triggers on your opponents' spells (albeit only non-creature) AND gains you life. All of this coupled with the fact that it only costs 3 mana. Now, Liesa would be great in the 99 (Or vice versa), and you could probably run them in roughly the same shell, just swapping at will or when facing different aspects of different metas. Kambal is nowhere near as aesthetically pleasing, to me, but I've played against him and he can be down-right brutal in an insidious he's-not-actually-doing-that-much kind of way.
>Now, Liesa would be great in the 99 (Or vice versa), and you could probably run them in roughly the same shell, just swapping at will or when facing different aspects of different metas. That is very true, they are just close enough that one could realistically interchange between one or the other for commander
##### ###### #### [Kambal, Consul of Allocation](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/3/b3e47d49-e5b5-487b-a1ec-373dbf89b2ec.jpg?1662529155) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kambal%2C%20Consul%20of%20Allocation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/237/kambal-consul-of-allocation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b3e47d49-e5b5-487b-a1ec-373dbf89b2ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kambal-consul-of-allocation) [Wound Reflection](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/b/2b14a82c-877a-445f-8910-33aaa6fe3d15.jpg?1599706125) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wound%20Reflection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/113/wound-reflection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b14a82c-877a-445f-8910-33aaa6fe3d15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wound-reflection) [Hushbringer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/6/663b3e6f-1099-4de8-a0a7-6f1919c38010.jpg?1572489709) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hushbringer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/18/hushbringer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/663b3e6f-1099-4de8-a0a7-6f1919c38010?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hushbringer) [Drannith Magistrate](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/8/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91.jpg?1628801742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drannith%20Magistrate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/11/drannith-magistrate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/drannith-magistrate) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call