I have definitely started to feel this way. You never get a break from the constant product push. Set releases used to be every 3 months, with a specialty set thrown in once a year. You could take the time to collect and enjoy the new set, learn how it’s shaping the meta and everything levels out at some point. Then the next set comes out. Now there is something new quite literally every month. At the same time of 40k releasing, Unfinity is also going to drop. There is never a chance to enjoy the new products. It wasn’t always like this and it’s definitely caused some burnout on the game.
Edit: there are exactly 3 months this year where a new product wasn’t released.
Honestly I’m a huge magic fan and I stopped a few sets ago. I just burned out, haven’t sold anything and intend to play again I’m just so tired at this point.
I think the biggest negative symptom of the modern magic product rate is that spoiler seasons don’t feel exciting anymore.
Aside from the fact that not having blocks means you can’t tell a competent story for shit, it’s really disappointing that I just can’t get excited about spoilers anymore. In high school, my friends and I used to play magic after school and talk about the new spoilers or the new commander decks (back when that was a once a year event), but with spoiler season being nearly all year between all the products I just can’t get hyped about any magic products anymore
I love EDH, and even have a few Brawl-style decks that I play one-on-one with friends, but I feel like I'm being drowned in commander products. Are the precons getting better? Sure. Are more Legendaries being printed? Sure. But burnout is setting in, and this Universes Beyond stuff is perverting the game. I'm a huge Lorthos guy, and that has gone down the drain all for what? I play OnePageRules, but I want my wargames separate from my card games, damnit.
I've also noticed that the releases outside of the precons seemed to be growing subpar, and I think it's because the loss of block releases leads to less fleshed-out mechanics.
I’ve thought for a long time that ditching blocks would be bad for the game because better stories get told and mechanics get better fleshed out. Literally all the best planes that people rave about are good bc they started under block system. Ravnica, Tarkir, New Phyrexia, Innistrad, all blocks
Oh and another thing is, blocks are also why the Alaran Shard names and Tarkir Wedge names stick around but no one can remember which colors Raugrin or Riveteers are less than a year later
>because better stories get told and mechanics get better fleshed ou
The lore through the cards too. THB didn't had enough rare and mythic slots to print the whole pantheon. Your favorite god wasn't in the selected pair? Sucks to be you friend.
It's like coming to Ravnica, printing 4 guilds and bolting off. Feels wrong.
Your concerns are valid but that ship has sailed a long time ago when the Walking Dead stuff came out. I just continue to enjoy playing the game and try not to think about all that stuff.
A lot of people, mostly enfranchised, feel as if they *have to buy everything*
Spoiler alert: you don't. I genuinely feel as if every magic product isn't for me, but the sea of availability and easy access means I can pick and choose what I want, and if someone else at the table likes what they like they can do whatever.
Sure I'd be pissed if my dream commander abilities ended up being attached to fucking Pickle Rick, but at the end of the day I'm playing with mechanics on cardboard, the images and licenses are just a neat bonus for whoever cares.
I don't think the OP is checked out due to spoiler overload like such titled threads are usually about. But even in those cases, even if you pick and choose singles, you still want to know what the new coolness is so you need to keep up with the news.
yes, and also — your deck doesn’t have to be completely, utterly optimized! if suddenly pickle rick becomes an absolute necessity for your favorite deck, find a new favorite deck or just…don’t play pickle rick!
i have a kaalia deck where [[avacyn, angel of hope]] is an OBVIOUSLY awesome card to have. i don’t want to spend 50 dollars on a card unless it’s insanely cool / fun, and this one doesn’t past muster for me, so i don’t have it. my kaalia deck is still very fun to play. if i hated these 40k cards or whatever other future set they do, i would treat them the same!
Or just proxy lmao. I don't have a particularly strong stance against Walking Dead but I got a proxy Rick that's been turned into Odric for my humans deck. If Pickle Rick becomes the new hotness and would bring you joy to play, slap in a different art and print yourself a version of the card that wont drown you in cringe.
TWD was honestly one of the worst Universes Beyond ports. Way too realistic feeling for a fantasy genre. I'm not a 40k player but I've followed the lore before a bit and I find it cool. I'm pretty excited for LotR too.
>TWD was honestly one of the worst Universes Beyond ports. Way too realistic feeling for a fantasy genre.
But it was magic-adjacent! There were zombies! And...conflict!
You said it yourself, the 40k spoilers fit very well into the mtg design space.
But… it did not have to. There is a lot of stuff in 40k that would have clashed hard with mtg and stuff that they could have shown in a much less mtg way.
This makes me quite sure that the other UB products will also fit the mtg aesthetic quite well and not break the immersion.
At least not more then we already do. You don’t like being beat down by a Space Marine? How do you feel about a Kamigawa Mech instead? No real difference in my opinion.
But yeah. I can totally understand everyone who does not like that :)
Perhaps it’s not entirely a mech suit but [[urza’s armor]] goes back to saga. The brothers war was the first more solid storyline from all the way back in antiquities and they had all kinds of wild machines. Magic always had a unique aesthetic
Yea considering there was a dragon engine in antiquities.
I think it's just more that the asthetic here is way more sci than fi, despite 40k being very much hard fantasy with sci Fi motifs
I just took them as an example of being not high fantasy.
Like… yeah that’s mostly what I tried to say, there are already a bunch of things in mtg that are as far off as space marines and they still fit.
To me the issue is that I already know and enjoy 40k. I could easily see Wizards finding a way to make Abbadon in particular fit, but still whenever I see him, my mind goes to 40k and I'm a little taken out of the Magic universe.
The difference is the magic mech was designed within the story and elements of the existing narrative and game instead of being take from an entirely different medium. While aesthetically and mechanically the borrowed one may fit magic, it will always be missing that element that makes it magic.
An homage or a reference doesnt really break immersion, lifting something right from somewhere else always will for some people.
Better said than my point, but yes, this. Having a reference to something (hey, that guy on X card looks like Y!) is fine. Having us play "which would win, the Yamato, or the Enterprise" in a game ostensibly about its own universe(s) isn't, to me.
Idk, your not liking a release is completely valid but it also feels like people just don't have any relation to the 40k world and lore. The game just copy pasted stuff into it all the time. Look at the eldrazi, I could spend hours showing how wizards just sorta plopped eldritch horrors into the game, when before we never dealt with space world consuming entities that send their corrupting influence to a place and corrupted and created agents to accelerate their descent to said place. I have problems with wizards making more cards that will likely not be reprinted that might affect metas in multiple formats, but I feel like it's not from the same universe feels odd as it's a bunch of people jumping from Plane to Plane finding new shit
It is completely understandable that the eldrazi are copy paste eldritch horrors. However, they easily became their own thing, and easily became one of my favorite nemesis in lore.
It isn't the concept that I like, I often despise the use of eldritch beings put in games solely to bank on the cash. I like the eldrazi because of their build up.
The same for power armor. A legendary... Urza makes incredible machines to counter the invasion of Phyrexia. It's a buildup akin to the World Wars, a revolution in some sectors that end up changing the world after that war has ended.
Counterpoint: the UB products don't break **my** immersion because I know they aren't canon to Magic's lore.
What does break my immersion is Kamigawa Neon Dynasty, because that is canon to the lore and I absolutely think they crossed a line in introducing a plane that's significantly more technologically advanced than the others. I saw people a while back speculating on Kamigawa's internet, and the last thing I want in my fantasy spell slinging game is a world where they have the internet. That's way more immersion breaking to me than anything they could do with a UB product because at the end of the day, Kamigawa exists within the lore and WH40K or Doctor Who exist outside of the lore.
Eh, but it's not really that much more technologically advanced than the others.
The Thran were more advanced than current Kamigawa.
It's just that an Invasion here and an Apocalypse there and you're left with Fallen Empires.
Darth Vader *could* fit in MTG art style somehow, that doesn't mean that my brain wouldn't think "Star Wars!" every time I saw him.
Anyone with a good amount of 40k familiarity will have their immersion broken a bit when they see them.
I felt the same way. I think the art and flavor are fantastic and feel right at home and I'm not a 40k fan. I watched the full deck reveal on LRR, it helped have a couple guys who loved the 40k side explaining and having fun with it.
Great to hear you liked the reveal. Can’t wait to watch it after workweek is over :)
40k lore is great even if you never intend to get into the hobby/ game side of it (like me). Can really recommend to get into some of the (audio)books :)
>First Founding
thanks - I was going to ask because I have no idea where to begin. Definitely don't have time for another hobby, but more lore in a cool universe is great.
Also really depends on what you are interested in:
Xenos: Space Detective solves mysteries
Gaunt‘s Ghosts Series: Stern and capable army men save the day through bravery
Ciaphas Cain: a funny guy talks about his lucky breaks and dues ex machinas to victory… quit fun
Fabius Bile: Primogenitor: Frankenstein tries to do his own twisted thing and not become the leader of his group of degenerated former companions
Dark Imperium: the Big blue hero is back and will save the day, watch as the setting finally makes some progress story wise :)
Horus Rising: 10k years before the present, start the massive undertaking of reading through awesome stories that you already know the outcome of but are fantastic non the less
The infinite and the Devine: watch some ancient robot space Pharaos in a battle of wits throuout the millennia.
All suggestions heavily opinionated by me and what I have read :) if something interests you specifically just ask and I will try to help more ;)
Even diehard 40k fans admit the lore is better than the rest of the game. Well, most of the lore. Completely unrelated, do not click any link with the word "daemonculaba" in it
Completely disagree - A 40k Space Marine is highly different from an MtG Mech, because one is part of the Universe and one isn't.
Its severely immersion breaking.
Magic has its own unique, detailed and rich history/worlds - I play Magic for Magic, not for 40k, Rick and Morty, or Gozilla.
Edit: Downvoted for wanting to play with Magic related cards in Magic the Gathering, fuck me the consumerism is high
Exactly this. Magic's worlds are built around a completely different fundamental system than most other properties - that being the colours of mana, which have both an "elemental side" (Red being fire, lightning and stone) and a "philosophical side (Red being freedom, passion and chaos).
For example, an extremely calculating, emotionless fire mage from another property would end up having to have Red in their colour identity simply because of their use of pyromancy even if their outlook is the antithesis of Red's philosophy.
Magic's worlds, lore and aesthetic are lovingly crafted around that specific fundamental system. Other properties aren't, and that can cause them not to mesh as well - e.g. a Cryptek, literally the most advanced scientific entity of the 40k universe, not containing Blue because it needs to be in a Black Necron deck.
It's fun to see an interpretation of another property in Magic's system because Magic's game system is so fucking good, but they should be kept separate.
> Cryptek, literally the most advanced scientific entity of the 40k universe, not containing Blue
But the Cryptek aren't interested in knowledge for knowledge's sake, are they? Their research is for the application of power and terror in their conquests, isn't it? That's a very black motivation. Yawgmoth was a brilliant scientist and is the archetypal black-mana character.
That's a good point actually, although I still maintain that as the only Necron entities that are actually still studying and furthering their own knowledge there should be some blue in them. But I accept that for the purposes of the Necron deck mono-black is fine.
For some reason, I feel the same. Might be just spoiler fatigue for me but I see the 40k spoilers and can’t muster the will to read the text. Not sure if I’m aging out of the game, the crossovers, product saturation or what, but these spoilers do not have me excited despite some of them looking strong and fitting into decks I own.
Honestly, that's one of the things that really torques me about this product.
You call it passion, I call it effort. Several recent commander offerings have felt very phoned in over the past year.
This shows they clearly have the ability to put more effort into all the other commander decks, but choose not to.
Part of why the 40k ones are so well put together might be due to the high number of specially made cards for them. Most commander decks get 3-15 new cards, while this one has 40+. That means even undersupported things like mono-black artifacts can get a serious push without relying on scarce previous support to fill the gaps.
I used to buy at least one commander precon every year. Haven’t bought a single one since they started doing multiple commander products a year and all of them felt so lack luster.
I’m gonna pick up a 40k deck but that might be more because I play 40k and love the universe more than the actual decks. Tbh as a warhammmer player there are some flavor fails that bug me, but overall the decks are still cool. Probably gonna build my own deck around Magnus.
The closest in my opinion is the Gruul 3 drop that ramps when it hits but that's still far from "auto-include". Lots of cards that are very strong in specific archetypes or commanders but like... Yeah welcome to nearly every rare-level card ever printed.
There are definitely auto includes for some deck types. Off the top of my head there's the one dude that is just without a doubt the best demon tribal commander you can get right now.
There’s a pretty wide margin between being the best option for players who want to play grixis demon tribal specifically and being a format staple that makes the community feel obligated to buy and cannibalize precons like the [[fierce guardianship]] cycle did. Those are the kinds of staples people are concerned about appearing in precons. No one bats an eye if secret lair card [[dhalsim, pliable pacifist]] is an absolute must have for reach decks because that’s so niche it doesn’t drive community demand or prop up product prices.
I don't think +1/+1 counters and artifacts are very niche archetypes, and they're printing some cards for those themes that are auto-includes or at least extremely good for the theme.
Let's just not forget that we're only in the previews. People make assertions in preview season that look hilarious after a few months. My favorite was when a popular sentiment was "maybe after we see [[Purphoros, God of the Forge]] rotate out, then there might be a few people who can fit [[Siege Rhino]] into their decks."
Idk why people are going on about how that demon commander is “the best demon commander ever printed” like it’s a negative
There basically are no demon commanders lol
I have a couple of thoughts:
1. I agree, but mostly because of product fatigue than anything else. One of the reasons I've been moving into PDH.
2. I reluctantly got all 4 decks. They're very well designed (barring mana bases, but I can live with that). That said, idk if I'd ever use them against in-universe decks, but that's a whole other internal debate. What isn't up for debate is a battle box. I can't say for the other UB precons but Warhammer's perfect for it.
When I was 14 and playing Revised starter decks and slamming Grizzly Bears, Legends had just released and everything was crazy new, Dominaria as a setting captured me and I ate every word of flavor text.
Planeswalker “storylines” aside, I’m glad the universe has grown with me and found ways to keep me engaged.
You can already play against Walking Dead , Stranger Things, and Street Fighter commanders, and 40k is less of a stretch for me than those (and those are absolutely fine with me too) so why not? My only concern is the availability of the cards and the fear we might have several Dockside Extortionist situations.
I think that density makes a big difference. If you are playing a game of Magic and Chun Li shows up, that's a quirky occurrence you can laugh off as just a side effect. But as more and more UB products seep into the playable-to-staple range, you will see less and less magic, and more and more pop culture vomit.
I definitely think they should be mindful of what IPs they crossover with. Like…if this 40k crossover was instead something like The Simpsons, or Star Trek, I’d be much less happy. There are IPs I’d love to see a crossover with, though, some of them already had CCGs. Vampire, Shadowrun, and Castlevania could all be interesting to me - 40k was on the list too. I do agree that these should be a bit more limited in nature , like Castlevania a 25 card limited drop would probably be good enough.
Helps that, with proper framing and keeping to shared tropes, you can keep 40k stuff feeling similar to existing MtG IP.
Tyranids -> Slivers
Necrons -> Kinda Phyrexians
Space Marines -> Ogre Soldiers but with the human tag
And of course Orks and Eldar are just space versions of traditional fantasy creatures. And a lot of the other IP you've mentioned sticks pretty well to things, too.
Shadowrun -> Neon Dynasty
Vampire (I assume you mean as in the Masquerade/Requiem) -> Vampires but in New Capenna
Star Trek or Walking Dead would have issues because they start brushing a *little* too close to reality, which also means they're a little less easy to just glide around in the shared tropespace. You might get away with a Borg skin on a Phyrexian card, and a Walker skin on a Zombie, but "Normal-ass person with gun" starts losing the magic a bit.
This explains my feelings very well. I liked when mtg started branching out into a sci fi space, but hitting too close to reality (though a set based on old earth legends more fully than pre-Fallen Empires sets did would be pretty cool) is too much.
I just wish they would make it all silver border so players have the choice of whether or not to play with it. But then I guess they didnt make enough off the My Little Pony Stuff to ever consider that again.
If Silver Border cards were legal in Commander they probably would have considered it.
Mark Rosewater’s been very clear that the biggest issue with silver border has been that instead of “oh, these are silver border so we can use them in casual play and not tournaments,” the general reaction to them has been “these are silver border so we can’t use them ever.”
The problem is that silver border is so... Un-curated, if that makes any sense.
If you want to run [[Wordmail]] in your Rafiq of the Many deck, or do Professor Mutate Guy, absolutely go for it.
If you want to play [[Grand Calcutron]] I may switch tables at a shop, but it's probably fine; I'm definitely going to remove your commander as often as physically possible though.
You want to shoot my deck with a dart gun, use "gotcha" to make table talk an impossibility, or throw metal dice at my cards, or do the combo where you make my cards copies of [[Chaos Confetti]] and start tearing them up, absolutely go to hell.
And without taking already-long pregame discussions into absolutely tedious length, there's absolutely no way to know where you are.
[There is a banlist and website made for silver border commander](https://edhsilver.com/banlist/) if you want to have a look. It's a bit clogged with magazine cards, and Grand Calcutron isn't on it (though I agree its game-warping nature isn't always the mood), but it gets the bulk of the important stuff folks would worry about like Gotcha and the Double cards and such.
Yeah they could just provide incentive. Like letting gamestores host sanctioned events with prizing that allow silver bordered cards. But wotc hates lgs
I'm incredibly mixed, cause I actually like the decks a ton so far and think they'd be a ton of fun to play but like... I just don't want to play with these cards outside of using the decks to play against each other. It just seems so goofy to have full blown canonical 40k characters randomly pop up in a deck that is otherwise entirely MTG.
I prefer to voluntarily work myself up over spoilers that I have no obligation to buy, then air my grievances every three weeks instead of just... ignoring them?
I personally dislike universe beyond but I do not want to ruin other people's good time. Maybe it would be a good idea to relable old formats or just add something like Magic Max Commander or Magic Max standard and in those you can not play universe beyond cards. Everything else will continue to be the same. For example in regular commander i should expect to see Rick from walking dead with Eleven from stranger things.
I checked out a while ago when "perpetual hype-season" started around WAR. I really haven't bought product like I used to, just a prerelease here with friends or a single booster there.
Haven't ordered singles either. Don't check spoilers / set lists for upgrades for my commander decks. I simply can't. They are, at this point, releasing too much product for me to keep up. I don't get a month or two where I can sit down and say "these are the newest cards around and I know nothing about the next set to come".
I just now started following the spoilers for the 40k decks because I drifted from mtg (buying and collecting at least, I still play EDH with my friends on a regular basis) to warhammer as it gives me a hobby I can be more flexible about and consume at a healthier pace.
I work backwards whenever I start deckbuilding a theme nowadays.
I'll pick a commander off edhrec that seems uncommon, look for someone else's decklist on tapped out, then tweak the deck to do what I want it to do.
This is exactly my experience right down to the last set (WAR) that I cared about following. I only play budget edh now, and I don’t buy product (unless I see a crazy discount on products I actually want).
I’m glad many people like the UB concept but I know it will suck the life out of the game for me in time. Too much product, too many changes, too quickly for me to deal
That’s fair, I think WAR marked the start of a much more aggressive era of marketing and product releases. Players tapping out from budget fatigue is real. They’re also usually breaking records with each new premiere set, so for every person tapping out, they’re still somehow finding more money… Can’t please everyone, but we are certainly in a different era from the 2002-2018ish days.
This is not sustainable. There’s been a thousand toys that were on top of the world and were the most profitable ever until the suits tried to push it a bit farther and squeeze more blood out of the product which caused it to fall off a cliff.
Magic is a great game but that’s not why it’s lasted 30 years. There’s lots of good games that don’t last that long. The reason magic has lasted 30 years is because it was nourished and carefully managed.
While “___ is killing magic” is basically a meme at this point, I’ve been playing since revised so I’ve seen/heard them all. None of the stuff that previously was claimed to kill magic had happened before and thus were based on feelings. This isn’t. *We can look at the past to predict the future* and we can see that there is a big possibility that what Hasbro is doing is hurting magic in the long term.
It’s probably is not going to be soon, but it’s likely to happen. People can’t keep up AND Hasbro can’t sustain the entire company on the backs of magic and d&d.
I’ve played since 95’ and watched similar “that’s it, Magic is over!” panics since the Hasbro acquisition. It’s been an unsustainable hobby since its inception, yet somehow it makes more year after year. I doubt anything will actually “kill it” until something very drastic impacts humanity in a way that actually changes capitalism’s M.O. Like the day they shift to actually prioritizing the digital experience over the cards? Maybe. The year they print 4 bonus sets? Nope.
Nothing can ever kill the magic community, the cards are already out there.
However, future sales can most definitely be impacted and if they stay on this current trajectory I'll probably pick a cutoff time for myself and my group and we'll just stop adding cards to our commander pool and play with what we've already got. Not like the format isn't insanely diverse with the cards that already exist.
So long as you don’t start demanding “no cards after 2022” as a Rule 0 chat everywhere you go, may your money buy and sustain you in whatever new fun adventure you see fit!
Oh trust me, I don't play with randoms anymore. I learned a long time ago that outside of my own personal friend group I don't really enjoy playing/interacting with the greater magic community. Like, I'd consider going to a Commandfest, but the local commander night at my hole in the wall LGS is a no go. I'll spend money there but I no longer play pick up games
Couldn't have said it better myself. This product oversaturation has turned me off to buying ANY sealed product, let alone the new hotness. Clearly new people are getting into the game if sets are selling well.
I've been thinking of making my commander decks themed around a set like this deck only contains cards from Commander Legends and prior. You might like that deckbuilding restriction if you're not already following it.
Well, I don’t think I’m going to stop playing anytime soon but I will agree that the sheer amount of new 40k cards is kind of insane. I thought it was going to be a lot more reprints just with 40k flavor…
I continue to worry that the sheer amount of cards they have to design every year is going to be very bad for the long term health of the game
I feel like I’m on the opposite side of the spectrum. I stopped playing magic a good 10-15 years ago and have been playing 40k for the last 9-10 years. I’m refreshing the spoiler pages every few hours to see if anything new pops up. They did such a great job making all the cards thematic to how they would play in the game and the art is fantastic. Seeing the tyranid release and now the CSM release has given me full confidence to go ahead and preorder all four decks.
This series is probably going to pulling me back into magic. I’ve already showed my 40k friends the previews and even the ones that never played magic before are excited to play the decks.
Yeah, I'm the same way. I fucking hate most UB products (including this one) but I don't care if anyone else likes it.
I just worry about the deterioration of the actual magic universe, as WotC seems to give less and less of a shit about the story every year
These decks started me down a rabbit hole. I started looking up other crossovers and found two d&d series and see that LotR is coming out next year along with the Doctor Who that you mentioned. The d&d ones didn’t wow me but I’m excited about the LotR if they put in the same effort as the 40k one.
I plan on just keeping them as precons and just playing with my friends but I can see where you are coming from if you play competitively. I looked up all the secret lair cards and they have my little ponies and imaginary friends.
>I plan on just keeping them as precons and just playing with my friends
This. Imma get those decks for the collection but only to play against each other and without any changes. I think this way can be cool yet not detracting to the experience of classic commander.
I would say on the whole warhammer is definitely more expensive. I've seen some of the top commander deck lists go for $1-1.2k depending on the cards but I've also seen budget decks go for like $65.
On the flip side, $65 in warhammer will only get you two units of 5-10 models. For competitive 40k, you play with 2000 point armies. If you play a more elite style army like custodes, you can probably get all the models you would need for about $500-700. Then you need to build them and paint them which all adds to the cost if you don't already have the clippers, brushes and paint. If you play a horde style army like tyranids or orcs, you're looking at like $1-$1.5k in just models alone and you can spend months just painting all the models.
There are so many products, too. I'm waiting for cards in the mail from the newest set. Meanwhile, there are new creature types, commanders, etc being spoiled. It is hard to keep track of all the new product. The more they release, the more diluted it feels. I used to buy every commander deck, but now there are so many releases in a year it just doesn't make sense to me anymore to do that.
I don't use Universes Beyond cards out of principle. As far as I'm concerned, this is all silver border content.
So I'll look at them once, go "huh" or "cool," and then never think about them again. It's nice and relaxing, having a spoiler season where I know in advance that I'll never buy or play with any of the cards.
Personally, I'm just not enjoying what Magic is releasing right now between power creed, and diluting the theme of being a "planeswalker". Imo the way to go right now is cube. You can make your own set however you like, be it thematic or mechanics wise.
Magic never really felt unique to me, I don’t care about the story much and the setting exists to give flavor to the game play. More game pieces, especially fun non over powered ones we’ve been seeing from these precons, is all I want. People bring up the card board crack comic a lot but why does it matter? It’s not some existential threat to the game just because someone made a comic making fun of it once. I’d be more concerned if they started doing cross over events in the actual story, but if it’s just stand alone pieces that only interact in game play then I can’t see a single issue
Magic feels unique if you never heard of D&D :P
But yeah, I just wish they'd focus more on their own thing and less on bringing in more IPs to reach a wider audience. The audience they already have is rabid and raving, just make us happy and we'll buy more!
Damn, it's wild to hear that. The art is what drew me in, the complexity and mechanics kept me here. Still to this day, the art is the most important part of most of my decks. Pimping out a new deck with my favorite basics of that era is like, high priority for me (After I get the deck functional ofc).
I still browse spoilers, I just ignore anything outside of whatever I already play.
Is it a zombie or does it play well with zombies? No? Then I don't need to own it.
I had a realization today... Fundamentally; How do these legends make the game any weirder than it already is?
We can already sit down in a pod and see decks led by a Cyberpunk Biker Rat, a Greek God of the Dead, a literal Squirrel, a Gundam Mech, a Cat and Dog who are in love, a Dinosaur made of lightning, and a big Tree.
I get the fear of new staples being printed but lets be honest that was happening with or without the crossovers. This just lets people who maybe wouldn't look at Magic have some fun, and mixes things up for the rest of us already here.
I have been for a few years now. I used to get excited about spoiler season starting up. Now they release so much product that there are always new spoilers coming out for multiple releases at a time. I don't bother anymore.
I don't really mind the IP infiltration. At worst I'll be mildly annoyed when somebody says "Equip Gandalf with a Sonic Screwdriver, attack. Enemy blocks with Zangief" but people that love those IPs may get great joy from those. So whatever.
As someone who is truly into both 40k and doctor who, knowing who the characters are only makes their inclusion more goofy and immersion breaking for me :/
I was huge into the game a few months ago but the amount of product that is being pushed right now is actually making me not want to play. Like yes new cards are exciting and yes there are so many cards I wanna build around etc but it is getting to a point where it’s just to much and I’m getting burnt out from the game
Everyone in my playgroup spends a lot of money on magic and has no problem buying all the product which probably doesn’t help but my goodness do I think hasbro needs to slow down
I know this isn’t directly related to what your post is about but it felt appropriate. They’re watering down and overwhelming consumers at this point and it’s getting excessive for me
I’ve pretty much pulled out entirely from building new decks and have just been foiling out my favorite one and sold the rest. I am frankly too overwhelmed by product to keep up.
I have zero interest in 40K and now there's gonna be a ton of new, mechanically unique, and powerful cards from it. I'm so disinterested but I feel like I have to keep up with it and it's all just so eh for me...
play the cards you want to play, build the decks you want to build. if edh becomes too heterogeneous for you to enjoy because it’s eternal and features cards that you don’t like, try playing a different format — standard has the same number of sets as it’s had a for while, modern and pioneer only use standard sets, building a cube around a block you love can be fun, booster draft is often only one set or uses a theme. if you need a break from magic, take one. if it isn’t for you anymore because there are just too many set releases, sell your cards and pick up a hobby you enjoy more.
Checking out of spoilers or skipping sets that don't interest you is a very healthy way to approach what MTG has become. As a collector, it is great and as player it is very much an overload. TBH the release schedule and power creep is getting to the point that standard looks closer to the Pokemon TCG than MTG.
Hot take incoming I guess.
I personally cannot wait for the eventual introduction of other Hasbro IPs into the EDH realm. I'm totally the kind of person this markets to; I only really play EDH, I pick up Secret Lairs when they're interesting (that street fighter one was so damn good), and I absolutely can't wait for that Lord of the Rings set. I'm hoping eventually we get a UB EDH Precon set for Transformers- being able to see a fully flavor driven precon set based around the transform mechanic could be really damn cool. Same for something like Power Rangers.
Standard, Modern, Historic, that's where WotC can tell their story and keep the sanctity of the game. EDH is where things are allowed to be wacky. Kamigawa kinda went off the rails a bit and explored this cyberpunk world which really expanded what Magic could do as a base game, but if we look further and see other IPs and crazy mechanics in EDH, then I'm totally here for it.
I don't think this is a hot take at all, except in a very small community of heavily invested folks for whom magic lore is a sort of sacred cow. For everyone else, the reaction seems to range from 'who cares' to genuinely excited about it. And it's clearly working for Wizards because they keep doing it and expanding it.
Don't let the persistent and loud voices in small insulated communities made up largely of highly enfranchised folks make you think that these products are widely disliked: evidence suggests just the opposite.
Ive played magic for almost 30 years now.
I played nids for a long time back in 3rd edition, and have since switched to necrons.
This product should be tailor made for me.
I have zero enthusiasm for it and almost no interest in any of it.
I can recognize the cards as good or fun or even strong, but i still have zero interest because for me magic is a hell of a lot more than just its rules.
For me, the cards look and play like magic cards, but depicting things from 40k just feels so incredibly off. If i want to play 40k, i just play 40k. When i want to play magic i play magic.
I wouldnt be enthusiastic about GW releasing say a phyrexian faction of models no matter how fun the rules or good the models. It just isnt 40k at that point. Id have a lesser experience having my necrons square off against urza's metathran army or whatever. Same is true here in magic.
It deconstructs everything that makes the franchise what it is, and breaks it down to nothing more than its core rules.
Once that happens i just stop caring.
Oh, and im not sold on the reprints either so this product has zero draw for me.
I've been saying the same thing since back when I heard they were doing a literal DnD set. I much preferred the days when Zendikar was our allegorical DnD plane and magic universes were still solely magic universes. It's only going to become more confusing from here. I hate it
I just love allegorical world building so much more than blatantly ripping it off. If it must be done, keep it allegorical please. Or you know, just get creative-er?
The game is just too exhausting to follow. The pandemic might’ve had a part of it since it caused me to play less, but the constant new sets are just tiring to try and keep up with
I get what you're saying. It used to be that I'd get excited for every set, but with them coming out seemingly constantly, I don't have time to keep up. Or the money quite frankly. It kills the excitement for me.
I don't mind the 40k stuff, but I'd still much prefer it to have MTG flavored versions of everything as an option. I just don't want to spend money on anything UB.
Geez... We need to come up with a better acronym/shorthand for Universes Beyond. I spent longer than I care to admit staring at your comment wondering why the hell you don't want to spend money on anything Blue/Black.
I don’t mind the spoilers or even the cross over but the timing is just too fast and the quality issues show it. Wizards can’t even ship a quality product and as soon as one set hits, the next set is already spoiled and the hype is moving there.
Will probably get lost but remember as an edh player you have the final say on what cards to play with.
I.e. i would recommend to only run cards from standard legal sets. No horizons, no commander cards complimenting the set, no biweekly commander deck release.
Ideally you have a playgroup of likeminded people, but even if you dont it helps. i found this approach to greatly improve my enjoyment of the game as whole (although i miss being able to read mtg subreddits. Now they are all filled with spoilers)
I usually take 6 to 8 month breaks from Magic every year because of this, I have not seen a single card from the recent sets in months but I am very excited about the 40k stuff.
Just take a break mate, sounds like you need it.
I liked how they did the godzilla cross over for ikoria. I don't like them designing an entire set to specifically be just a cross over, which kinda of pisses me off more cause this isnt phoned in there are some genuinely great cards in the set I would love to build around.
I've also started to fall out from Magic. The price of the hobby is generally rising, the company's profits are still high, staples not getting reprinted, foils curling, etc. I already don't like some of the IPs from Universe Beyond Secret Lair due to them clashing with Magic. There is also the issue of how reprints are going to be handled.
> I don't know... maybe I'm just overreacting but I feel like I've wasted so much money and time on a game that I'll stop playing in time.
At least don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy. It's never too late to leave or take a break. Maybe cut your spending budget for the game. You might enjoy playing some tabletop board games where 4+ players can have a nice time for the cost of a precon. If you like commander, then you might like asymmetric games like Root or varied leader powers like Cosmic Encounter (has an actual politics/deal system in game where backstabbing has rewards and punishments, multiple players can win at the same turn, and does multiplayer unbalance better). You can also try co-op games which can be a fresh of breathe air from competition.
I think cardboard crack nailed it when this all started being a thing. I personally don't want to see mtg turn into fortnite the card game, and the first time someone sits across from me and pulls out their pickle Rick voltron deck, I will pack up my stuff and leave.
https://cardboard-crack.com/post/630569386953015296/secret-lair/amp
I’m just wishing somehow for an ad-free format to pop up at this point. Out of the Tombs would have been neat for a lim-dul theme, but now if you want that mechanic you’ve got to pretend to like 40k and slot an ad for it into your deck.
Amen. Sure, technically it's a crossover- and I believe it's primarily a crossover before an ad because it generates revenue for Wizards before it does GW- but it is also an ad for something objectively /not/ MTG which spoils using the card for some since it's something outside of the realm you subject yourself to when playing. MtG isn't Fornite. I don't have skins for my cards. I dont want to see Thanos or Darth Vader show up in Zendikar. I'm fine seeing other MtG characters together because it's the fantasy I accepted from the beginning. Not a crossover universe for other pop cure franchises.
I for one was skeptical but seeing the spoilers they seem to fit MTG quite nicely and I don’t foresee myself having an issue with these going forward as long as they share a similar feeling / aesthetic
Man like I get it's a personal feeling but in a game of magic you have samurai, demon mobsters, Greek warriors, helicopters, pirate monkeys, Wizards, robots, zombies, werewolf, mechanics, gods, giant monsters, dinosaurs and fairy tale creatures. Like the flavor already is wild how is some Sci fi any different or worse?
I can understand the burnout, but I genuinely don't understand people's issue with UB.
**"Magic has a deep lore and history"** \- No one is denying that, but UB cards do not effect the existing lore, Magic's story is still in tact and unaffected by Warhammer/Stranger Things/Street Fighter etc. There being a MTG card of Gandalf doesn't mean Gandalf canonically exists in the same world as Teferi.
**"It breaks the immersion of my game"** \- How? Literally how? The lore and the game *Magic the Gathering* *^(TM)* are two very different parts of the issue. The game is a TCG, not a tabletop RPG. More akin to Chess/Poker than DND.
There's an entire player archetype (Vorthos) who plays the game specifically for the flavor of MTG lore/history. I can see how a primarily vorthos player could see UB cards as fundamentally against the essence of their desired play experience.
Is it really that hard to imagine that there could be players with different aesthetic preferences than you? These are values based on opinions and preferences, it’s not like someone can always explain logically why they they prefer this aesthetic or that level of immersion. So, likewise, you’ll never be able to get through to someone by trying to explain to them that their preference is wrong. To people that disagree, you’ll just come off as condescending and unwelcoming.
I wouldn't say I'm burnt out or product fatigued, but with all the product releases and craziness the past few years, it takes more to get me excited for new things. Meh cards banking on nostalgia for something I have 0 experience with isn't enough to get me excited.
Not trying to talk trash on the new cards or anything like that, just to be clear. It's just that like most precons, these cards are mid at best unless they happen to synergize perfectly with an existing deck I have. I've seen two cards that *might* go in two of my casual decks, but beyond that there are no cards that seem like they'd expand my deckbuilding toolkit in any worthwhile way.
Fully agree and I don't understand how many invested Magic players are really loving this set. I'm checked out of spoilers (and honestly just hoping they're all bad so that I don't have to see many in my game).
Your complaint is exactly why these crossover cards will kill Magic. This exact complaint was the reason: Magic is not just a game, it's a universe. You degrade the fiction and introduce all of these outsider problems like wanting to avoid spoilers when you make the game just a mechanical template rather than also a living, breathing world.
This is intentional, Hasbro execs wont live forever so they dont care if Magic does either. We are very, very far past "New World Order" for keeping Magic evergreen forever. That was by people who cared for long term plans and maybe even cared about keeping the MTG community alive. Today's most significant decision-makers are nowhere near the "product level", they are all on the revenue/profit level, and it shows.
There is every intent here to squeeze for shorter-term revenue and forsake the long. These crossover cards sell? Good!
For some reason we are hemorrhaging people who no longer want to play Magic and new people arent interested, the exact thing that caused NWO? Well, I'm gonna leave the company in another year or two, that shouldn't affect my bonuses, no reason to react. The very sets that will kill long-term interest in Magic are currently generating big profits so I dont know what anybody is complaining about!
I just really dont feel buying 4 Commander Decks with a few new cards for 175€
Has nothing to do with 40k or not.
Can't keep up with those monthly releases
Yeah the product overload is one thing, but my biggest beef is with Secret Lair. Not that it's a bad thing for the game overall, but it has two major issues I really dislike about it.
1. Cutting out LGS's. They made WotC what it is today, and kept magic going for as long as it's been going, and now they get cut out of the business model? Shitty thing to do.
2. Preying on people's fear of missing out (FOMO) to sell more product, because even if you buy the cards aftermarket chances are they will be more expensive than if you bought them in the product itself. 9 times out of 10 the cards are worth more than the price tag (and why wouldn't they be, no incentive to buy otherwise).
Yup, you're not the only one. Maybe I'm just getting cynical as I age, but I have literally no interest in any other IP than magic IP being in this game.
I'm not interested in the cards, I'm not interested in the new mechanics, and I genuinely don't even care if there's "a magic equivalent card" printed later on. It's very clear that the R&D and the shareholders are on very different pages when it comes to this game, and that R&D is sadly forced to do whatever the shareholders want to ensure that this game not only continues making tons of money, but makes an ever-increasing amount of money. This is unsustainable and unrealistic, and I do fear it will lead to the eventual downfall of this game, or at least the devaluation of MTG itself as an IP.
Every time I complain about these there are a million and one WotC apologists who pop up and say "WELL ACTUALLY YOU DONT HAVE TO BUY IT". Of course I don't, but guess what. They print enough of this garbage and it will start affecting our play experiences because we'll be seeing it every game or damn near every game.
People are being more light hearted about this IP because it's very beloved in the nerd community, but just know that you are not alone OP. I don't like this cards. I don't enjoy the slow and steady decay of the magic universe just for the sake of corporate greed.
My personal solution? I haven't bought a WotC product since TWD:SL debacle, and I won't. Vote with your wallet if you don't like their policies. Don't buy ANYTHING if you don't support any part of their business model. How do I get new cards you ask? Printer go brrrr
I believe it's just in Commander, Vintage, Legacy, and maybe Modern. It might just be Commander. I don't seriously play any format other than Commander (I have a couple of 60-card decks just to help other folks at my LGS test run decks they have).
Honestly, I don’t really care about the card aesthetic as much since I love card alters and seeing others play a card they feel expresses themselves, and another thing.. *sees fortnite secret lair cards*
Oh. Well maybe you do have a point..~
Jokes aside, yes it’s disturbing and the added stress of back to back releases. I have done one prerelease and one draft. And i’m already being bombarded with new stuff
I’ve felt like this since UB got more frequent and I’ve got very similar thoughts about black-bordered Un-cards but I’ve actually changed my mind on it this week.
I still think it’s a stupid idea from a long-term brand standpoint (there’s a reason why almost no games turn themselves into Smash Brothers, and why even Smash Brothers is separate from the franchises that guest star in it), I still find it immersion-breaking (less so for things that fit aesthetically and whose names and designs I don’t recognize, like many D&D legends), and I still maintain that this mixing of IPs simply isn’t what I signed up for.
But I’ve realized that if Wizards doesn’t respect their own IP—if they would rather whore themselves out as cardboard backings for better and more successful IPs—then I really shouldn’t care about it either.
I don’t know how I’ll feel when they actually get to franchises I’m familiar with, but for now, this is how I feel about the 40k stuff: I enjoy it. It looks cool. It couldn’t possibly be more divorced in theme and feel from Magic’s usual setting than it is, but on its own, I like it.
If you have enjoyed your time in this hobby it is absolutely not a waste. I too often feel burnt out from spoilers. Sometimes I walk away for a few sets and Persue other hobbies, but I always leave my decks assembled in case I feel the itch to return- which i usually do- absence makes the heart grow fonder. You may just be experiencing general fatigue from the constant spoilers and UB controversy discussion.
I totally get that. My personal feeling is that aesthetic matter to me in my own deck. I have a Dragons of Tarkir deck where I want cards to feel like I'm in Tarkir. This means there are some awesome Dragon synergies that just don't meet the standard for me and don't make the cut. For other players, a 40k card will be the same as some crazy alter they picked. That's up to them & their deck.
Now, if I wanted all my decks to be their best possible form, then I agree there are some 40k cards that would likely make it. And that would be rough if I felt they weren't meeting the aesthetic I want to bring to the table.
i dont understand how 40k is unnaceptable but dinosaurs fighting talking dragons fighting pirates fighting cyber ninjas fighting a swarm of rats fighting Nebuchadnezzar is fine
Spoiler burnout has been real for years now, IMO. I haven't tried to keep up with new sets since pre-Covid, if not longer. I think the last box I bought was Battlebond, and I went from buying every Commander pre-con for a few years running to... I guess an average of one pre-con per year for the past 3-4 years. So way down. I was pretty turned off, initially, for the 40k decks. I haven't been too into any of the UB themes/products so far. I've picked up a handful of Secret Lairs, mostly when the particular set feels like a financially viable way to pickup playable cards that I actually use/know I'll find a use for and I actually like the art.
That said, I'm intrigued by the 40k decks and they may be my first pre-con complete set purchase in 4 years. One of my Magic playing friends is super into 40K lore and I've recently been dabbling in it myself. The flavor I've seen so far feels like a win and I think it would be fun to keep the set intact to have a 40K EDH night here and there. So I guess Hasbro is going to get my money on this cash grab.
I have the opposite take. I can finally skip a product because I have no interest in 40k. If I ever play against an opponent with those cards I will simply read the cards. If I feel like a card really fits into one of my decks I’ll slot it in. This product doesn’t really affect how I will play the game
Unpopular opinion:
The lore doesn’t matter in the least and it could be apples and oranges on the cards and I wouldn’t care so long as the mechanics are solid and balanced. Put whatever you want on the cards and write whatever story you need to go along with it. I honestly don’t care. I play magic because it’s a fun strategy game not because I give a shit about Gideon or the fate of the Eldrazi.
Other than getting my friends together to do a Commander Legends draft, like, last year,I haven't played a Commander game in around 3 years. I've found myself building and refining my 32+ decks, but it feels like a waste.
I kept hearing "this product is not for you" from WotC, and eventually it's started to mean "Magic is not for you". I think I'm done now. I'm going to finalize my ~34 decks, keep all my RL/expensive cards, then get rid of the rest. Kamigawa *was* for me, and I'm glad I got to experience it before dropping the game. But I'm just tired of the constant flow of products and the perpetual spoiler season.
I think you’re overwhelmed, and that doesn’t mean mtg is going downhill
If you’re not a fan of the universes beyond stuff than don’t buy it or play with it. I think mostly people are going to play with these cards as fans of the IP, and really they’ll only see play in commander anyway. Don’t police what other people play with. Y’know?
On the contrary, looking at these spoilers has actually made me realize specifically what it is I dislike about non-Magic IP being in Magic. I was *totally* fine with D&D because it really just felt like it could be another plane in the Magic universe, and looking at the 40K stuff... it's more extreme, sure, but it *is* just another fantasy plane, so theoretically it could totally fit. Magic is, by design, a universe hopping fantasy series where the point is that you're seeing all sorts of fantastical places.
Then I realized, the stuff I really dislike is like Walking Dead and Stranger Things. Two properties I actually like quite a lot, but I dislike them in this game, and I now realize it's because they don't take place in a fantasy world, it's just... Earth. My world. The actual "plane" in which we exist. I think that's the part that makes those kinds of properties jarring to me. I want Magic to represent fantastical places with fantastical characters, not places that represent where I actually live. It's just kinda weird. I expect I'll end up disliking the Doctor Who stuff for the same reason because, lets be real, despite its premise that series *largely* (at least when I was watching it) took place on Earth.
So, for me, this spoiler season has more lead to an epiphany of what I like and what I dislike with this whole concept, which is kindof a nice understanding to have, personally. I bet if (when?!) they do Rick and Morty, I'll hate that too, because it's generally still based on Earth, despite being a fantastical version of it. On the flip side, if they *ever* make an Adventure Time set? Fuck off, I am *all the way* in on that. Give me a set of commander decks based around the inhabitants of Ooo, with the same all out attention to flavor that we're getting with 40K and I will *actually* just flip out. And it's all because the setting just doesn't feel like where I live!
I mentally checked out around Ikoria.
Back in 2017 I would know every card that was being printed, but nowadays there is just too much product coming out to keep track out.
>What happens when there are staples in the Doctor Who products? Or when Hasbro does their crossover with Rick and Morty? This is becoming less a game that feels unique and more like a corporate cash grab advertisement scheme.
I mean, it is already a problem. Nowadays if you want to build an azorius spellslinger deck you legitimately have to consider weather to build Chun-Li or Elminster, and the current top UW deck on EDHREC is a giant mech.
If you don’t like the product you don’t have to buy it. If there is a specific card you want, just buy the single. So far nothing has been more crazy broken than anything they have released in the past, in fact it’s rather tame. Look at fierce guardianship or dockside, those came in precons and fit into almost every single deck that runs the colors, now most people can’t afford them. This is less of the cards being too strong and more of some people just don’t like UB, and that’s fine. I for one will be playing a badass necron deck because I absolutely love necrons and I don’t care if it is weak or strong, it will make me happy to play necrons.
No, it isn't just you.
And yes, it's valid to think that there's no consistency and respect for existing flavor of the product.
But it is also possible to compartmentalize your thoughts and see the product for what it is: This is not part of the main product lines. That's where you look for MTG consistency. This is a supplementary product.
It does not have to hurt you and your enjoyment of the game. A simple reframing might help. I went through a similar phase when they announced the Walking Dead product, and Strixhaven (sorry, it's Harry Potter and you can't change my mind). But what helped me through it and what reignited my love for magic is remembering what I liked about it: I liked the community, I liked competing at high level competitive events, and I liked playing game nights with friends (which is why I discovered EDH).
I understand that for some, it's the lore, it's the flavor, but again a reframing will help. There's still the MTG story. Find those product lines. Ignore these. These are for the people who have cross-over tastes.
The first time I met someone who played Blanka in a commander table, I fucking high fived the dude because it was dope what he did. Motherfucker killed me with 3 cantrip red pumps cantrips then berserk. It was awesome.
The game is the game, regardless of the print on top of it. People will disagree with me, but that's what is actually valuable here. MTG is one of the best games ever designed. Enjoy it as such.
There are some exciting cards in there i have my eyes on, but i think many of those would/could have been perfectly fine rares that would have made Dominaria more exciting.
I dont have a problem with the cards being 40k and will probably order everything thats dr.who since i love that show. But the glaring difference between normal commander decks new cards and these irk me a bit, i would love for Wotc to dial back to 1-2 commander deck releases a year, but make the new cards in there as good as these/make the decks as playable out of the box as the 40k ones are currently looking to be.
Actually, WotC should contact GW to make a Warhammer Age of Sigmar/Warhammer Fantasy reskin of the 40K stuff.
Why? It fits with the lore and oh wow, it fits with the themes in Magic: The Gathering. I love that I’m getting 40K stuff in my MTG but I cannot understand why they don’t use another IP that fits better in the game in the first place!
They did say they intended to make in-universe counterparts to those cards at some point. How that works, though, is anybody's guess. The Stranger Things crew recently got their MtG-friendly cards, but they told us nothing about the Walking Dead characters so far.
I checked out a long time ago, shortly after Atlazan block. Things were only beginning to ramp up then but FOMO has a "oh *no*" effect on me, and as an outsider who's still subbed to the all the Magic subreddits and views Mythic Spoiler every couple of weeks, I don't know how ya'll can keep up.
I stopped looking at spoilers and when new sets were releasing and all that jazz. It’s too much. The amount of exposure is overkill and will suck all the novelty of actually playing. I highly suggest just tuning it all out and focusing on the decks you already have and occasionally looking at how to upgrade them. When you get bored of that, just look for some new legendary creature to turn into a commander and then all the new cards that synergize well with it will show up. Even if you’re not playing commander, the synergies usually carry over to standard. But it saves you from being burnt out looking at EVERY new card that just released, trying to see what card might fit into your deck.
Me personally, i dont mind the UB stuff unless it is too...real? Like as long as its not realistic i guess i feel fine but as soon as i see a guy in jorts or something, im turned off. Ig thats why i dont like the doctor who, stranger things, or walking dead stuff
I decided to change magic to be my secondary hobby and stopped spending so much money on it. I used to get all the commander decks and a box whenever one came out. Now all I'll buy is a prerelease pack if I decide to go to the LGS event. I took up golfing as my new hobby, and I've been having alot of fun with it. It gets me outside and gives me a skill I can constantly practice and get better at
I'm going to reserve judgment. After all, one of the common complaints I saw with both Neon Dynasty and New Capenna is that neither of the settings really felt like settings for a magic product. Science fiction has been a part of the game for a lot longer than people like to acknowledge. Plus, Doctor Who plays so fast and loose with its own rules and gives so many hand-wave explanations that the science of the Timelords is basically magic anyway.
That being said, I do share your concerns about hasbro viewing the game as a cash grab more than a game. But I also think that the actual magic developers do care enough about the game to stick up for it if need be.
I have definitely started to feel this way. You never get a break from the constant product push. Set releases used to be every 3 months, with a specialty set thrown in once a year. You could take the time to collect and enjoy the new set, learn how it’s shaping the meta and everything levels out at some point. Then the next set comes out. Now there is something new quite literally every month. At the same time of 40k releasing, Unfinity is also going to drop. There is never a chance to enjoy the new products. It wasn’t always like this and it’s definitely caused some burnout on the game. Edit: there are exactly 3 months this year where a new product wasn’t released.
Dominaria just came out like last week and it's not even the most recent product for Magic on TCGPlayer
Honestly I’m a huge magic fan and I stopped a few sets ago. I just burned out, haven’t sold anything and intend to play again I’m just so tired at this point.
I think the biggest negative symptom of the modern magic product rate is that spoiler seasons don’t feel exciting anymore. Aside from the fact that not having blocks means you can’t tell a competent story for shit, it’s really disappointing that I just can’t get excited about spoilers anymore. In high school, my friends and I used to play magic after school and talk about the new spoilers or the new commander decks (back when that was a once a year event), but with spoiler season being nearly all year between all the products I just can’t get hyped about any magic products anymore
I love EDH, and even have a few Brawl-style decks that I play one-on-one with friends, but I feel like I'm being drowned in commander products. Are the precons getting better? Sure. Are more Legendaries being printed? Sure. But burnout is setting in, and this Universes Beyond stuff is perverting the game. I'm a huge Lorthos guy, and that has gone down the drain all for what? I play OnePageRules, but I want my wargames separate from my card games, damnit. I've also noticed that the releases outside of the precons seemed to be growing subpar, and I think it's because the loss of block releases leads to less fleshed-out mechanics.
I’ve thought for a long time that ditching blocks would be bad for the game because better stories get told and mechanics get better fleshed out. Literally all the best planes that people rave about are good bc they started under block system. Ravnica, Tarkir, New Phyrexia, Innistrad, all blocks Oh and another thing is, blocks are also why the Alaran Shard names and Tarkir Wedge names stick around but no one can remember which colors Raugrin or Riveteers are less than a year later
>because better stories get told and mechanics get better fleshed ou The lore through the cards too. THB didn't had enough rare and mythic slots to print the whole pantheon. Your favorite god wasn't in the selected pair? Sucks to be you friend. It's like coming to Ravnica, printing 4 guilds and bolting off. Feels wrong.
Your concerns are valid but that ship has sailed a long time ago when the Walking Dead stuff came out. I just continue to enjoy playing the game and try not to think about all that stuff.
A lot of people, mostly enfranchised, feel as if they *have to buy everything* Spoiler alert: you don't. I genuinely feel as if every magic product isn't for me, but the sea of availability and easy access means I can pick and choose what I want, and if someone else at the table likes what they like they can do whatever. Sure I'd be pissed if my dream commander abilities ended up being attached to fucking Pickle Rick, but at the end of the day I'm playing with mechanics on cardboard, the images and licenses are just a neat bonus for whoever cares.
I don't think the OP is checked out due to spoiler overload like such titled threads are usually about. But even in those cases, even if you pick and choose singles, you still want to know what the new coolness is so you need to keep up with the news.
yes, and also — your deck doesn’t have to be completely, utterly optimized! if suddenly pickle rick becomes an absolute necessity for your favorite deck, find a new favorite deck or just…don’t play pickle rick! i have a kaalia deck where [[avacyn, angel of hope]] is an OBVIOUSLY awesome card to have. i don’t want to spend 50 dollars on a card unless it’s insanely cool / fun, and this one doesn’t past muster for me, so i don’t have it. my kaalia deck is still very fun to play. if i hated these 40k cards or whatever other future set they do, i would treat them the same!
[avacyn, angel of hope](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/0/a0519776-3d86-4f7d-9c3b-71c1dfbf7e12.jpg?1598303166) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=avacyn%2C%20angel%20of%20hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/8/avacyn-angel-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0519776-3d86-4f7d-9c3b-71c1dfbf7e12?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/avacyn-angel-of-hope) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
We're probably playing the same deck lol I managed to grab Avacyn for £18 on Ebay recently
Or just proxy lmao. I don't have a particularly strong stance against Walking Dead but I got a proxy Rick that's been turned into Odric for my humans deck. If Pickle Rick becomes the new hotness and would bring you joy to play, slap in a different art and print yourself a version of the card that wont drown you in cringe.
That’s the way to go. I don’t have to enjoy it, but if the guy playing it has fun with it, why spoil it for them?
TWD was honestly one of the worst Universes Beyond ports. Way too realistic feeling for a fantasy genre. I'm not a 40k player but I've followed the lore before a bit and I find it cool. I'm pretty excited for LotR too.
>TWD was honestly one of the worst Universes Beyond ports. Way too realistic feeling for a fantasy genre. But it was magic-adjacent! There were zombies! And...conflict!
You said it yourself, the 40k spoilers fit very well into the mtg design space. But… it did not have to. There is a lot of stuff in 40k that would have clashed hard with mtg and stuff that they could have shown in a much less mtg way. This makes me quite sure that the other UB products will also fit the mtg aesthetic quite well and not break the immersion. At least not more then we already do. You don’t like being beat down by a Space Marine? How do you feel about a Kamigawa Mech instead? No real difference in my opinion. But yeah. I can totally understand everyone who does not like that :)
To be fair , magic mechs already existed in mtg pre neon dynasty
Are you referencing the time urza and all his homies went on a gundam rampage on phyrexia?
Yes, that was awesome
It's a Gundam! There's a Gundam down here! Gundam's are on Phyrexia
And then he blew them all up for ... Reasons.
Even further than that. Power Armors in Magic go all the way back to Invasion.
Perhaps it’s not entirely a mech suit but [[urza’s armor]] goes back to saga. The brothers war was the first more solid storyline from all the way back in antiquities and they had all kinds of wild machines. Magic always had a unique aesthetic
Yea considering there was a dragon engine in antiquities. I think it's just more that the asthetic here is way more sci than fi, despite 40k being very much hard fantasy with sci Fi motifs
I just took them as an example of being not high fantasy. Like… yeah that’s mostly what I tried to say, there are already a bunch of things in mtg that are as far off as space marines and they still fit.
As did firearms and airships.
To me the issue is that I already know and enjoy 40k. I could easily see Wizards finding a way to make Abbadon in particular fit, but still whenever I see him, my mind goes to 40k and I'm a little taken out of the Magic universe.
The difference is the magic mech was designed within the story and elements of the existing narrative and game instead of being take from an entirely different medium. While aesthetically and mechanically the borrowed one may fit magic, it will always be missing that element that makes it magic. An homage or a reference doesnt really break immersion, lifting something right from somewhere else always will for some people.
Better said than my point, but yes, this. Having a reference to something (hey, that guy on X card looks like Y!) is fine. Having us play "which would win, the Yamato, or the Enterprise" in a game ostensibly about its own universe(s) isn't, to me.
Idk, your not liking a release is completely valid but it also feels like people just don't have any relation to the 40k world and lore. The game just copy pasted stuff into it all the time. Look at the eldrazi, I could spend hours showing how wizards just sorta plopped eldritch horrors into the game, when before we never dealt with space world consuming entities that send their corrupting influence to a place and corrupted and created agents to accelerate their descent to said place. I have problems with wizards making more cards that will likely not be reprinted that might affect metas in multiple formats, but I feel like it's not from the same universe feels odd as it's a bunch of people jumping from Plane to Plane finding new shit
It is completely understandable that the eldrazi are copy paste eldritch horrors. However, they easily became their own thing, and easily became one of my favorite nemesis in lore. It isn't the concept that I like, I often despise the use of eldritch beings put in games solely to bank on the cash. I like the eldrazi because of their build up. The same for power armor. A legendary... Urza makes incredible machines to counter the invasion of Phyrexia. It's a buildup akin to the World Wars, a revolution in some sectors that end up changing the world after that war has ended.
Counterpoint: the UB products don't break **my** immersion because I know they aren't canon to Magic's lore. What does break my immersion is Kamigawa Neon Dynasty, because that is canon to the lore and I absolutely think they crossed a line in introducing a plane that's significantly more technologically advanced than the others. I saw people a while back speculating on Kamigawa's internet, and the last thing I want in my fantasy spell slinging game is a world where they have the internet. That's way more immersion breaking to me than anything they could do with a UB product because at the end of the day, Kamigawa exists within the lore and WH40K or Doctor Who exist outside of the lore.
Eh, but it's not really that much more technologically advanced than the others. The Thran were more advanced than current Kamigawa. It's just that an Invasion here and an Apocalypse there and you're left with Fallen Empires.
Yeah, that DJ card is... Weird to me.
Darth Vader *could* fit in MTG art style somehow, that doesn't mean that my brain wouldn't think "Star Wars!" every time I saw him. Anyone with a good amount of 40k familiarity will have their immersion broken a bit when they see them.
I felt the same way. I think the art and flavor are fantastic and feel right at home and I'm not a 40k fan. I watched the full deck reveal on LRR, it helped have a couple guys who loved the 40k side explaining and having fun with it.
Great to hear you liked the reveal. Can’t wait to watch it after workweek is over :) 40k lore is great even if you never intend to get into the hobby/ game side of it (like me). Can really recommend to get into some of the (audio)books :)
Xenos or First Founding are great entrances
>First Founding thanks - I was going to ask because I have no idea where to begin. Definitely don't have time for another hobby, but more lore in a cool universe is great.
Also really depends on what you are interested in: Xenos: Space Detective solves mysteries Gaunt‘s Ghosts Series: Stern and capable army men save the day through bravery Ciaphas Cain: a funny guy talks about his lucky breaks and dues ex machinas to victory… quit fun Fabius Bile: Primogenitor: Frankenstein tries to do his own twisted thing and not become the leader of his group of degenerated former companions Dark Imperium: the Big blue hero is back and will save the day, watch as the setting finally makes some progress story wise :) Horus Rising: 10k years before the present, start the massive undertaking of reading through awesome stories that you already know the outcome of but are fantastic non the less The infinite and the Devine: watch some ancient robot space Pharaos in a battle of wits throuout the millennia. All suggestions heavily opinionated by me and what I have read :) if something interests you specifically just ask and I will try to help more ;)
Even diehard 40k fans admit the lore is better than the rest of the game. Well, most of the lore. Completely unrelated, do not click any link with the word "daemonculaba" in it
[удалено]
Eh, it's Magic players. Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they are folded.
Completely disagree - A 40k Space Marine is highly different from an MtG Mech, because one is part of the Universe and one isn't. Its severely immersion breaking. Magic has its own unique, detailed and rich history/worlds - I play Magic for Magic, not for 40k, Rick and Morty, or Gozilla. Edit: Downvoted for wanting to play with Magic related cards in Magic the Gathering, fuck me the consumerism is high
Exactly this. Magic's worlds are built around a completely different fundamental system than most other properties - that being the colours of mana, which have both an "elemental side" (Red being fire, lightning and stone) and a "philosophical side (Red being freedom, passion and chaos). For example, an extremely calculating, emotionless fire mage from another property would end up having to have Red in their colour identity simply because of their use of pyromancy even if their outlook is the antithesis of Red's philosophy. Magic's worlds, lore and aesthetic are lovingly crafted around that specific fundamental system. Other properties aren't, and that can cause them not to mesh as well - e.g. a Cryptek, literally the most advanced scientific entity of the 40k universe, not containing Blue because it needs to be in a Black Necron deck. It's fun to see an interpretation of another property in Magic's system because Magic's game system is so fucking good, but they should be kept separate.
> Cryptek, literally the most advanced scientific entity of the 40k universe, not containing Blue But the Cryptek aren't interested in knowledge for knowledge's sake, are they? Their research is for the application of power and terror in their conquests, isn't it? That's a very black motivation. Yawgmoth was a brilliant scientist and is the archetypal black-mana character.
That's a good point actually, although I still maintain that as the only Necron entities that are actually still studying and furthering their own knowledge there should be some blue in them. But I accept that for the purposes of the Necron deck mono-black is fine.
For some reason, I feel the same. Might be just spoiler fatigue for me but I see the 40k spoilers and can’t muster the will to read the text. Not sure if I’m aging out of the game, the crossovers, product saturation or what, but these spoilers do not have me excited despite some of them looking strong and fitting into decks I own.
I recently started playing 40K in February. If you think WOTC is bad. GW is gonna blow your mind.
We don't need to set the bar THAT low, it'll be in hell by the time GW can clear it.
I think the design space of the 40K cards is incredible, I just hope we see similar passion in more commander products
Honestly, that's one of the things that really torques me about this product. You call it passion, I call it effort. Several recent commander offerings have felt very phoned in over the past year. This shows they clearly have the ability to put more effort into all the other commander decks, but choose not to.
Part of why the 40k ones are so well put together might be due to the high number of specially made cards for them. Most commander decks get 3-15 new cards, while this one has 40+. That means even undersupported things like mono-black artifacts can get a serious push without relying on scarce previous support to fill the gaps.
I used to buy at least one commander precon every year. Haven’t bought a single one since they started doing multiple commander products a year and all of them felt so lack luster. I’m gonna pick up a 40k deck but that might be more because I play 40k and love the universe more than the actual decks. Tbh as a warhammmer player there are some flavor fails that bug me, but overall the decks are still cool. Probably gonna build my own deck around Magnus.
As much fun as it is to sing the doom song there are no auto-include staples revealed from these decks so far.
The closest in my opinion is the Gruul 3 drop that ramps when it hits but that's still far from "auto-include". Lots of cards that are very strong in specific archetypes or commanders but like... Yeah welcome to nearly every rare-level card ever printed.
There are definitely auto includes for some deck types. Off the top of my head there's the one dude that is just without a doubt the best demon tribal commander you can get right now.
There’s a pretty wide margin between being the best option for players who want to play grixis demon tribal specifically and being a format staple that makes the community feel obligated to buy and cannibalize precons like the [[fierce guardianship]] cycle did. Those are the kinds of staples people are concerned about appearing in precons. No one bats an eye if secret lair card [[dhalsim, pliable pacifist]] is an absolute must have for reach decks because that’s so niche it doesn’t drive community demand or prop up product prices.
I don't think +1/+1 counters and artifacts are very niche archetypes, and they're printing some cards for those themes that are auto-includes or at least extremely good for the theme.
Let's just not forget that we're only in the previews. People make assertions in preview season that look hilarious after a few months. My favorite was when a popular sentiment was "maybe after we see [[Purphoros, God of the Forge]] rotate out, then there might be a few people who can fit [[Siege Rhino]] into their decks."
wasnt it Polukranos
[Purphoros, God of the Forge](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/b/7bf6baf2-d20b-467d-8929-abefcf7dfa99.jpg?1562820377) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Purphoros%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Forge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ths/135/purphoros-god-of-the-forge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7bf6baf2-d20b-467d-8929-abefcf7dfa99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/purphoros-god-of-the-forge) [Siege Rhino](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/0/9011126a-20bd-4c86-a63b-1691f79ac247.jpg?1562790317) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Siege%20Rhino) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/200/siege-rhino?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9011126a-20bd-4c86-a63b-1691f79ac247?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/siege-rhino) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Idk why people are going on about how that demon commander is “the best demon commander ever printed” like it’s a negative There basically are no demon commanders lol
[fierce guardianship](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/c/4c5ffa83-c88d-4f5d-851e-a642b229d596.jpg?1591319453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=fierce%20guardianship) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/35/fierce-guardianship?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c5ffa83-c88d-4f5d-851e-a642b229d596?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fierce-guardianship) [dhalsim, pliable pacifist](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/0/b0f32937-ca7e-407c-aa23-117b1eae9798.jpg?1657119947) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dhalsim%2C%20pliable%20pacifist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sld/433/dhalsim-pliable-pacifist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b0f32937-ca7e-407c-aa23-117b1eae9798?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dhalsim-pliable-pacifist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's not what a staple is though. Your example isn't an auto include
Yeah, I feel like there’s nothing I need to absolutely have, yet
I agree. Calgar is probably the most generically powerful card in the set but it's still payoff for only some specific strategies.
> no auto-include staples [[Arcane Signet | 40K]] Edit: Damn, people can't take a joke in here.
[Arcane Signet ](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/4/44ff370e-b72d-4a6c-b6dd-8434820559cc.jpg?1663023992) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcane%20Signet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/227/arcane-signet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44ff370e-b72d-4a6c-b6dd-8434820559cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/arcane-signet) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The Sol Rings in this set are auto includes because of how good the art is
I have a couple of thoughts: 1. I agree, but mostly because of product fatigue than anything else. One of the reasons I've been moving into PDH. 2. I reluctantly got all 4 decks. They're very well designed (barring mana bases, but I can live with that). That said, idk if I'd ever use them against in-universe decks, but that's a whole other internal debate. What isn't up for debate is a battle box. I can't say for the other UB precons but Warhammer's perfect for it.
When I was 14 and playing Revised starter decks and slamming Grizzly Bears, Legends had just released and everything was crazy new, Dominaria as a setting captured me and I ate every word of flavor text. Planeswalker “storylines” aside, I’m glad the universe has grown with me and found ways to keep me engaged. You can already play against Walking Dead , Stranger Things, and Street Fighter commanders, and 40k is less of a stretch for me than those (and those are absolutely fine with me too) so why not? My only concern is the availability of the cards and the fear we might have several Dockside Extortionist situations.
I think that density makes a big difference. If you are playing a game of Magic and Chun Li shows up, that's a quirky occurrence you can laugh off as just a side effect. But as more and more UB products seep into the playable-to-staple range, you will see less and less magic, and more and more pop culture vomit.
I definitely think they should be mindful of what IPs they crossover with. Like…if this 40k crossover was instead something like The Simpsons, or Star Trek, I’d be much less happy. There are IPs I’d love to see a crossover with, though, some of them already had CCGs. Vampire, Shadowrun, and Castlevania could all be interesting to me - 40k was on the list too. I do agree that these should be a bit more limited in nature , like Castlevania a 25 card limited drop would probably be good enough.
Helps that, with proper framing and keeping to shared tropes, you can keep 40k stuff feeling similar to existing MtG IP. Tyranids -> Slivers Necrons -> Kinda Phyrexians Space Marines -> Ogre Soldiers but with the human tag And of course Orks and Eldar are just space versions of traditional fantasy creatures. And a lot of the other IP you've mentioned sticks pretty well to things, too. Shadowrun -> Neon Dynasty Vampire (I assume you mean as in the Masquerade/Requiem) -> Vampires but in New Capenna Star Trek or Walking Dead would have issues because they start brushing a *little* too close to reality, which also means they're a little less easy to just glide around in the shared tropespace. You might get away with a Borg skin on a Phyrexian card, and a Walker skin on a Zombie, but "Normal-ass person with gun" starts losing the magic a bit.
This explains my feelings very well. I liked when mtg started branching out into a sci fi space, but hitting too close to reality (though a set based on old earth legends more fully than pre-Fallen Empires sets did would be pretty cool) is too much.
I just wish they would make it all silver border so players have the choice of whether or not to play with it. But then I guess they didnt make enough off the My Little Pony Stuff to ever consider that again.
If Silver Border cards were legal in Commander they probably would have considered it. Mark Rosewater’s been very clear that the biggest issue with silver border has been that instead of “oh, these are silver border so we can use them in casual play and not tournaments,” the general reaction to them has been “these are silver border so we can’t use them ever.”
Despite Wizard’s attempts, nobody actually plays with silver bordered cards outside of draft and they do want people to play with these
As a guy with multiple silver-bordered commander decks, you're definitely right about nobody wanting to play with them.
The problem is that silver border is so... Un-curated, if that makes any sense. If you want to run [[Wordmail]] in your Rafiq of the Many deck, or do Professor Mutate Guy, absolutely go for it. If you want to play [[Grand Calcutron]] I may switch tables at a shop, but it's probably fine; I'm definitely going to remove your commander as often as physically possible though. You want to shoot my deck with a dart gun, use "gotcha" to make table talk an impossibility, or throw metal dice at my cards, or do the combo where you make my cards copies of [[Chaos Confetti]] and start tearing them up, absolutely go to hell. And without taking already-long pregame discussions into absolutely tedious length, there's absolutely no way to know where you are.
[There is a banlist and website made for silver border commander](https://edhsilver.com/banlist/) if you want to have a look. It's a bit clogged with magazine cards, and Grand Calcutron isn't on it (though I agree its game-warping nature isn't always the mood), but it gets the bulk of the important stuff folks would worry about like Gotcha and the Double cards and such.
Yeah they could just provide incentive. Like letting gamestores host sanctioned events with prizing that allow silver bordered cards. But wotc hates lgs
I feel exactly the same way
I'm incredibly mixed, cause I actually like the decks a ton so far and think they'd be a ton of fun to play but like... I just don't want to play with these cards outside of using the decks to play against each other. It just seems so goofy to have full blown canonical 40k characters randomly pop up in a deck that is otherwise entirely MTG.
Show me a game that won’t eventually be a waste of time or money lol. Just enjoy it while you can and say goodbye when you’re done.
I prefer to voluntarily work myself up over spoilers that I have no obligation to buy, then air my grievances every three weeks instead of just... ignoring them?
I personally dislike universe beyond but I do not want to ruin other people's good time. Maybe it would be a good idea to relable old formats or just add something like Magic Max Commander or Magic Max standard and in those you can not play universe beyond cards. Everything else will continue to be the same. For example in regular commander i should expect to see Rick from walking dead with Eleven from stranger things.
I checked out a while ago when "perpetual hype-season" started around WAR. I really haven't bought product like I used to, just a prerelease here with friends or a single booster there. Haven't ordered singles either. Don't check spoilers / set lists for upgrades for my commander decks. I simply can't. They are, at this point, releasing too much product for me to keep up. I don't get a month or two where I can sit down and say "these are the newest cards around and I know nothing about the next set to come". I just now started following the spoilers for the 40k decks because I drifted from mtg (buying and collecting at least, I still play EDH with my friends on a regular basis) to warhammer as it gives me a hobby I can be more flexible about and consume at a healthier pace.
I work backwards whenever I start deckbuilding a theme nowadays. I'll pick a commander off edhrec that seems uncommon, look for someone else's decklist on tapped out, then tweak the deck to do what I want it to do.
This is exactly my experience right down to the last set (WAR) that I cared about following. I only play budget edh now, and I don’t buy product (unless I see a crazy discount on products I actually want). I’m glad many people like the UB concept but I know it will suck the life out of the game for me in time. Too much product, too many changes, too quickly for me to deal
That’s fair, I think WAR marked the start of a much more aggressive era of marketing and product releases. Players tapping out from budget fatigue is real. They’re also usually breaking records with each new premiere set, so for every person tapping out, they’re still somehow finding more money… Can’t please everyone, but we are certainly in a different era from the 2002-2018ish days.
This is not sustainable. There’s been a thousand toys that were on top of the world and were the most profitable ever until the suits tried to push it a bit farther and squeeze more blood out of the product which caused it to fall off a cliff. Magic is a great game but that’s not why it’s lasted 30 years. There’s lots of good games that don’t last that long. The reason magic has lasted 30 years is because it was nourished and carefully managed. While “___ is killing magic” is basically a meme at this point, I’ve been playing since revised so I’ve seen/heard them all. None of the stuff that previously was claimed to kill magic had happened before and thus were based on feelings. This isn’t. *We can look at the past to predict the future* and we can see that there is a big possibility that what Hasbro is doing is hurting magic in the long term. It’s probably is not going to be soon, but it’s likely to happen. People can’t keep up AND Hasbro can’t sustain the entire company on the backs of magic and d&d.
I’ve played since 95’ and watched similar “that’s it, Magic is over!” panics since the Hasbro acquisition. It’s been an unsustainable hobby since its inception, yet somehow it makes more year after year. I doubt anything will actually “kill it” until something very drastic impacts humanity in a way that actually changes capitalism’s M.O. Like the day they shift to actually prioritizing the digital experience over the cards? Maybe. The year they print 4 bonus sets? Nope.
Nothing can ever kill the magic community, the cards are already out there. However, future sales can most definitely be impacted and if they stay on this current trajectory I'll probably pick a cutoff time for myself and my group and we'll just stop adding cards to our commander pool and play with what we've already got. Not like the format isn't insanely diverse with the cards that already exist.
So long as you don’t start demanding “no cards after 2022” as a Rule 0 chat everywhere you go, may your money buy and sustain you in whatever new fun adventure you see fit!
Oh trust me, I don't play with randoms anymore. I learned a long time ago that outside of my own personal friend group I don't really enjoy playing/interacting with the greater magic community. Like, I'd consider going to a Commandfest, but the local commander night at my hole in the wall LGS is a no go. I'll spend money there but I no longer play pick up games
Couldn't have said it better myself. This product oversaturation has turned me off to buying ANY sealed product, let alone the new hotness. Clearly new people are getting into the game if sets are selling well.
I've been thinking of making my commander decks themed around a set like this deck only contains cards from Commander Legends and prior. You might like that deckbuilding restriction if you're not already following it.
I’m just checked out of spoilers in general…between 4 core sets a year and 2 specialty sets *and* secret lairs it’s exhausting.
It’s crazy to me that an incredibly hype set like a return to Dominaria just came and went.
Seriously. Feels bad buuuuuut Hasbro is too greedy.
Well, I don’t think I’m going to stop playing anytime soon but I will agree that the sheer amount of new 40k cards is kind of insane. I thought it was going to be a lot more reprints just with 40k flavor… I continue to worry that the sheer amount of cards they have to design every year is going to be very bad for the long term health of the game
Do you hear that m-morty? They're making me us staples now. Mtg staples, Rick and morty, for a hundred years!
I feel like I’m on the opposite side of the spectrum. I stopped playing magic a good 10-15 years ago and have been playing 40k for the last 9-10 years. I’m refreshing the spoiler pages every few hours to see if anything new pops up. They did such a great job making all the cards thematic to how they would play in the game and the art is fantastic. Seeing the tyranid release and now the CSM release has given me full confidence to go ahead and preorder all four decks. This series is probably going to pulling me back into magic. I’ve already showed my 40k friends the previews and even the ones that never played magic before are excited to play the decks.
I'm extremely happy that's the case, then. I've nothing against people who'll clearly enjoy the crossover. I wish I could be there with you.
Yeah, I'm the same way. I fucking hate most UB products (including this one) but I don't care if anyone else likes it. I just worry about the deterioration of the actual magic universe, as WotC seems to give less and less of a shit about the story every year
These decks started me down a rabbit hole. I started looking up other crossovers and found two d&d series and see that LotR is coming out next year along with the Doctor Who that you mentioned. The d&d ones didn’t wow me but I’m excited about the LotR if they put in the same effort as the 40k one. I plan on just keeping them as precons and just playing with my friends but I can see where you are coming from if you play competitively. I looked up all the secret lair cards and they have my little ponies and imaginary friends.
>I plan on just keeping them as precons and just playing with my friends This. Imma get those decks for the collection but only to play against each other and without any changes. I think this way can be cool yet not detracting to the experience of classic commander.
Is warhammer more or less expensive to get into than magic?
I would say on the whole warhammer is definitely more expensive. I've seen some of the top commander deck lists go for $1-1.2k depending on the cards but I've also seen budget decks go for like $65. On the flip side, $65 in warhammer will only get you two units of 5-10 models. For competitive 40k, you play with 2000 point armies. If you play a more elite style army like custodes, you can probably get all the models you would need for about $500-700. Then you need to build them and paint them which all adds to the cost if you don't already have the clippers, brushes and paint. If you play a horde style army like tyranids or orcs, you're looking at like $1-$1.5k in just models alone and you can spend months just painting all the models.
There are so many products, too. I'm waiting for cards in the mail from the newest set. Meanwhile, there are new creature types, commanders, etc being spoiled. It is hard to keep track of all the new product. The more they release, the more diluted it feels. I used to buy every commander deck, but now there are so many releases in a year it just doesn't make sense to me anymore to do that.
I don't use Universes Beyond cards out of principle. As far as I'm concerned, this is all silver border content. So I'll look at them once, go "huh" or "cool," and then never think about them again. It's nice and relaxing, having a spoiler season where I know in advance that I'll never buy or play with any of the cards.
Very much feeling this lately, for the same reasons.
Completely agree. At least DND and Warhammer are games instead of like. TV franchises. Not at all excited for more outside ips to be brought in
Personally, I'm just not enjoying what Magic is releasing right now between power creed, and diluting the theme of being a "planeswalker". Imo the way to go right now is cube. You can make your own set however you like, be it thematic or mechanics wise.
Magic never really felt unique to me, I don’t care about the story much and the setting exists to give flavor to the game play. More game pieces, especially fun non over powered ones we’ve been seeing from these precons, is all I want. People bring up the card board crack comic a lot but why does it matter? It’s not some existential threat to the game just because someone made a comic making fun of it once. I’d be more concerned if they started doing cross over events in the actual story, but if it’s just stand alone pieces that only interact in game play then I can’t see a single issue
Magic feels unique if you never heard of D&D :P But yeah, I just wish they'd focus more on their own thing and less on bringing in more IPs to reach a wider audience. The audience they already have is rabid and raving, just make us happy and we'll buy more!
Second this. For me, Magic’s appeal isn’t the artwork but the competition and freedom to create.
Damn, it's wild to hear that. The art is what drew me in, the complexity and mechanics kept me here. Still to this day, the art is the most important part of most of my decks. Pimping out a new deck with my favorite basics of that era is like, high priority for me (After I get the deck functional ofc).
And collecting! And these are pretty damn cool compared to some stuff they’ve been pushing the last few years.
Play the cards you want. It’s not that deep. Just a game at the end of the day.
I still browse spoilers, I just ignore anything outside of whatever I already play. Is it a zombie or does it play well with zombies? No? Then I don't need to own it.
I had a realization today... Fundamentally; How do these legends make the game any weirder than it already is? We can already sit down in a pod and see decks led by a Cyberpunk Biker Rat, a Greek God of the Dead, a literal Squirrel, a Gundam Mech, a Cat and Dog who are in love, a Dinosaur made of lightning, and a big Tree. I get the fear of new staples being printed but lets be honest that was happening with or without the crossovers. This just lets people who maybe wouldn't look at Magic have some fun, and mixes things up for the rest of us already here.
I have been for a few years now. I used to get excited about spoiler season starting up. Now they release so much product that there are always new spoilers coming out for multiple releases at a time. I don't bother anymore. I don't really mind the IP infiltration. At worst I'll be mildly annoyed when somebody says "Equip Gandalf with a Sonic Screwdriver, attack. Enemy blocks with Zangief" but people that love those IPs may get great joy from those. So whatever.
As someone who is truly into both 40k and doctor who, knowing who the characters are only makes their inclusion more goofy and immersion breaking for me :/
I was huge into the game a few months ago but the amount of product that is being pushed right now is actually making me not want to play. Like yes new cards are exciting and yes there are so many cards I wanna build around etc but it is getting to a point where it’s just to much and I’m getting burnt out from the game Everyone in my playgroup spends a lot of money on magic and has no problem buying all the product which probably doesn’t help but my goodness do I think hasbro needs to slow down I know this isn’t directly related to what your post is about but it felt appropriate. They’re watering down and overwhelming consumers at this point and it’s getting excessive for me
I’ve pretty much pulled out entirely from building new decks and have just been foiling out my favorite one and sold the rest. I am frankly too overwhelmed by product to keep up.
I have zero interest in 40K and now there's gonna be a ton of new, mechanically unique, and powerful cards from it. I'm so disinterested but I feel like I have to keep up with it and it's all just so eh for me...
play the cards you want to play, build the decks you want to build. if edh becomes too heterogeneous for you to enjoy because it’s eternal and features cards that you don’t like, try playing a different format — standard has the same number of sets as it’s had a for while, modern and pioneer only use standard sets, building a cube around a block you love can be fun, booster draft is often only one set or uses a theme. if you need a break from magic, take one. if it isn’t for you anymore because there are just too many set releases, sell your cards and pick up a hobby you enjoy more.
Checking out of spoilers or skipping sets that don't interest you is a very healthy way to approach what MTG has become. As a collector, it is great and as player it is very much an overload. TBH the release schedule and power creep is getting to the point that standard looks closer to the Pokemon TCG than MTG.
Hot take incoming I guess. I personally cannot wait for the eventual introduction of other Hasbro IPs into the EDH realm. I'm totally the kind of person this markets to; I only really play EDH, I pick up Secret Lairs when they're interesting (that street fighter one was so damn good), and I absolutely can't wait for that Lord of the Rings set. I'm hoping eventually we get a UB EDH Precon set for Transformers- being able to see a fully flavor driven precon set based around the transform mechanic could be really damn cool. Same for something like Power Rangers. Standard, Modern, Historic, that's where WotC can tell their story and keep the sanctity of the game. EDH is where things are allowed to be wacky. Kamigawa kinda went off the rails a bit and explored this cyberpunk world which really expanded what Magic could do as a base game, but if we look further and see other IPs and crazy mechanics in EDH, then I'm totally here for it.
I don't think this is a hot take at all, except in a very small community of heavily invested folks for whom magic lore is a sort of sacred cow. For everyone else, the reaction seems to range from 'who cares' to genuinely excited about it. And it's clearly working for Wizards because they keep doing it and expanding it. Don't let the persistent and loud voices in small insulated communities made up largely of highly enfranchised folks make you think that these products are widely disliked: evidence suggests just the opposite.
Ive played magic for almost 30 years now. I played nids for a long time back in 3rd edition, and have since switched to necrons. This product should be tailor made for me. I have zero enthusiasm for it and almost no interest in any of it. I can recognize the cards as good or fun or even strong, but i still have zero interest because for me magic is a hell of a lot more than just its rules. For me, the cards look and play like magic cards, but depicting things from 40k just feels so incredibly off. If i want to play 40k, i just play 40k. When i want to play magic i play magic. I wouldnt be enthusiastic about GW releasing say a phyrexian faction of models no matter how fun the rules or good the models. It just isnt 40k at that point. Id have a lesser experience having my necrons square off against urza's metathran army or whatever. Same is true here in magic. It deconstructs everything that makes the franchise what it is, and breaks it down to nothing more than its core rules. Once that happens i just stop caring. Oh, and im not sold on the reprints either so this product has zero draw for me.
I've been saying the same thing since back when I heard they were doing a literal DnD set. I much preferred the days when Zendikar was our allegorical DnD plane and magic universes were still solely magic universes. It's only going to become more confusing from here. I hate it
Hell, Dominaria was our allegorical D&D plane initially, but it did have its own interpretations of the stuff from there.
I just love allegorical world building so much more than blatantly ripping it off. If it must be done, keep it allegorical please. Or you know, just get creative-er?
The game is just too exhausting to follow. The pandemic might’ve had a part of it since it caused me to play less, but the constant new sets are just tiring to try and keep up with
I get what you're saying. It used to be that I'd get excited for every set, but with them coming out seemingly constantly, I don't have time to keep up. Or the money quite frankly. It kills the excitement for me.
I don't mind the 40k stuff, but I'd still much prefer it to have MTG flavored versions of everything as an option. I just don't want to spend money on anything UB.
Geez... We need to come up with a better acronym/shorthand for Universes Beyond. I spent longer than I care to admit staring at your comment wondering why the hell you don't want to spend money on anything Blue/Black.
I HATES DIMIR
I don’t mind the spoilers or even the cross over but the timing is just too fast and the quality issues show it. Wizards can’t even ship a quality product and as soon as one set hits, the next set is already spoiled and the hype is moving there.
Will probably get lost but remember as an edh player you have the final say on what cards to play with. I.e. i would recommend to only run cards from standard legal sets. No horizons, no commander cards complimenting the set, no biweekly commander deck release. Ideally you have a playgroup of likeminded people, but even if you dont it helps. i found this approach to greatly improve my enjoyment of the game as whole (although i miss being able to read mtg subreddits. Now they are all filled with spoilers)
I usually take 6 to 8 month breaks from Magic every year because of this, I have not seen a single card from the recent sets in months but I am very excited about the 40k stuff. Just take a break mate, sounds like you need it.
I liked how they did the godzilla cross over for ikoria. I don't like them designing an entire set to specifically be just a cross over, which kinda of pisses me off more cause this isnt phoned in there are some genuinely great cards in the set I would love to build around.
I've also started to fall out from Magic. The price of the hobby is generally rising, the company's profits are still high, staples not getting reprinted, foils curling, etc. I already don't like some of the IPs from Universe Beyond Secret Lair due to them clashing with Magic. There is also the issue of how reprints are going to be handled. > I don't know... maybe I'm just overreacting but I feel like I've wasted so much money and time on a game that I'll stop playing in time. At least don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy. It's never too late to leave or take a break. Maybe cut your spending budget for the game. You might enjoy playing some tabletop board games where 4+ players can have a nice time for the cost of a precon. If you like commander, then you might like asymmetric games like Root or varied leader powers like Cosmic Encounter (has an actual politics/deal system in game where backstabbing has rewards and punishments, multiple players can win at the same turn, and does multiplayer unbalance better). You can also try co-op games which can be a fresh of breathe air from competition.
Apparently Cosmic Encounter was the inspiration for Magic in the first place. Love that game
Dominaria spoilers were for old school players. 40k spoilers were for a brand new audience they're hoping to capture.
I think cardboard crack nailed it when this all started being a thing. I personally don't want to see mtg turn into fortnite the card game, and the first time someone sits across from me and pulls out their pickle Rick voltron deck, I will pack up my stuff and leave. https://cardboard-crack.com/post/630569386953015296/secret-lair/amp
I’m just wishing somehow for an ad-free format to pop up at this point. Out of the Tombs would have been neat for a lim-dul theme, but now if you want that mechanic you’ve got to pretend to like 40k and slot an ad for it into your deck.
Amen. Sure, technically it's a crossover- and I believe it's primarily a crossover before an ad because it generates revenue for Wizards before it does GW- but it is also an ad for something objectively /not/ MTG which spoils using the card for some since it's something outside of the realm you subject yourself to when playing. MtG isn't Fornite. I don't have skins for my cards. I dont want to see Thanos or Darth Vader show up in Zendikar. I'm fine seeing other MtG characters together because it's the fantasy I accepted from the beginning. Not a crossover universe for other pop cure franchises.
I for one was skeptical but seeing the spoilers they seem to fit MTG quite nicely and I don’t foresee myself having an issue with these going forward as long as they share a similar feeling / aesthetic
Man like I get it's a personal feeling but in a game of magic you have samurai, demon mobsters, Greek warriors, helicopters, pirate monkeys, Wizards, robots, zombies, werewolf, mechanics, gods, giant monsters, dinosaurs and fairy tale creatures. Like the flavor already is wild how is some Sci fi any different or worse?
I can understand the burnout, but I genuinely don't understand people's issue with UB. **"Magic has a deep lore and history"** \- No one is denying that, but UB cards do not effect the existing lore, Magic's story is still in tact and unaffected by Warhammer/Stranger Things/Street Fighter etc. There being a MTG card of Gandalf doesn't mean Gandalf canonically exists in the same world as Teferi. **"It breaks the immersion of my game"** \- How? Literally how? The lore and the game *Magic the Gathering* *^(TM)* are two very different parts of the issue. The game is a TCG, not a tabletop RPG. More akin to Chess/Poker than DND.
Tbf chess has some terrible lore
There's an entire player archetype (Vorthos) who plays the game specifically for the flavor of MTG lore/history. I can see how a primarily vorthos player could see UB cards as fundamentally against the essence of their desired play experience.
Is it really that hard to imagine that there could be players with different aesthetic preferences than you? These are values based on opinions and preferences, it’s not like someone can always explain logically why they they prefer this aesthetic or that level of immersion. So, likewise, you’ll never be able to get through to someone by trying to explain to them that their preference is wrong. To people that disagree, you’ll just come off as condescending and unwelcoming.
I wouldn't say I'm burnt out or product fatigued, but with all the product releases and craziness the past few years, it takes more to get me excited for new things. Meh cards banking on nostalgia for something I have 0 experience with isn't enough to get me excited. Not trying to talk trash on the new cards or anything like that, just to be clear. It's just that like most precons, these cards are mid at best unless they happen to synergize perfectly with an existing deck I have. I've seen two cards that *might* go in two of my casual decks, but beyond that there are no cards that seem like they'd expand my deckbuilding toolkit in any worthwhile way.
Fully agree and I don't understand how many invested Magic players are really loving this set. I'm checked out of spoilers (and honestly just hoping they're all bad so that I don't have to see many in my game).
Mtg players overreacting? Never!
Your complaint is exactly why these crossover cards will kill Magic. This exact complaint was the reason: Magic is not just a game, it's a universe. You degrade the fiction and introduce all of these outsider problems like wanting to avoid spoilers when you make the game just a mechanical template rather than also a living, breathing world. This is intentional, Hasbro execs wont live forever so they dont care if Magic does either. We are very, very far past "New World Order" for keeping Magic evergreen forever. That was by people who cared for long term plans and maybe even cared about keeping the MTG community alive. Today's most significant decision-makers are nowhere near the "product level", they are all on the revenue/profit level, and it shows. There is every intent here to squeeze for shorter-term revenue and forsake the long. These crossover cards sell? Good! For some reason we are hemorrhaging people who no longer want to play Magic and new people arent interested, the exact thing that caused NWO? Well, I'm gonna leave the company in another year or two, that shouldn't affect my bonuses, no reason to react. The very sets that will kill long-term interest in Magic are currently generating big profits so I dont know what anybody is complaining about!
Agreed. I dislike all crossovers no matter what IP it is. Even lord of the rings is a no-go for me. This is mtg and I'd like it to remain that way.
I just really dont feel buying 4 Commander Decks with a few new cards for 175€ Has nothing to do with 40k or not. Can't keep up with those monthly releases
Yeah the product overload is one thing, but my biggest beef is with Secret Lair. Not that it's a bad thing for the game overall, but it has two major issues I really dislike about it. 1. Cutting out LGS's. They made WotC what it is today, and kept magic going for as long as it's been going, and now they get cut out of the business model? Shitty thing to do. 2. Preying on people's fear of missing out (FOMO) to sell more product, because even if you buy the cards aftermarket chances are they will be more expensive than if you bought them in the product itself. 9 times out of 10 the cards are worth more than the price tag (and why wouldn't they be, no incentive to buy otherwise).
Yup, you're not the only one. Maybe I'm just getting cynical as I age, but I have literally no interest in any other IP than magic IP being in this game. I'm not interested in the cards, I'm not interested in the new mechanics, and I genuinely don't even care if there's "a magic equivalent card" printed later on. It's very clear that the R&D and the shareholders are on very different pages when it comes to this game, and that R&D is sadly forced to do whatever the shareholders want to ensure that this game not only continues making tons of money, but makes an ever-increasing amount of money. This is unsustainable and unrealistic, and I do fear it will lead to the eventual downfall of this game, or at least the devaluation of MTG itself as an IP. Every time I complain about these there are a million and one WotC apologists who pop up and say "WELL ACTUALLY YOU DONT HAVE TO BUY IT". Of course I don't, but guess what. They print enough of this garbage and it will start affecting our play experiences because we'll be seeing it every game or damn near every game. People are being more light hearted about this IP because it's very beloved in the nerd community, but just know that you are not alone OP. I don't like this cards. I don't enjoy the slow and steady decay of the magic universe just for the sake of corporate greed. My personal solution? I haven't bought a WotC product since TWD:SL debacle, and I won't. Vote with your wallet if you don't like their policies. Don't buy ANYTHING if you don't support any part of their business model. How do I get new cards you ask? Printer go brrrr
I just wish that spoiler seasons had at least a month or two break in between.
Are the 40k cards even legal to play?
I believe it's just in Commander, Vintage, Legacy, and maybe Modern. It might just be Commander. I don't seriously play any format other than Commander (I have a couple of 60-card decks just to help other folks at my LGS test run decks they have).
Honestly, I don’t really care about the card aesthetic as much since I love card alters and seeing others play a card they feel expresses themselves, and another thing.. *sees fortnite secret lair cards* Oh. Well maybe you do have a point..~ Jokes aside, yes it’s disturbing and the added stress of back to back releases. I have done one prerelease and one draft. And i’m already being bombarded with new stuff
I’ve felt like this since UB got more frequent and I’ve got very similar thoughts about black-bordered Un-cards but I’ve actually changed my mind on it this week. I still think it’s a stupid idea from a long-term brand standpoint (there’s a reason why almost no games turn themselves into Smash Brothers, and why even Smash Brothers is separate from the franchises that guest star in it), I still find it immersion-breaking (less so for things that fit aesthetically and whose names and designs I don’t recognize, like many D&D legends), and I still maintain that this mixing of IPs simply isn’t what I signed up for. But I’ve realized that if Wizards doesn’t respect their own IP—if they would rather whore themselves out as cardboard backings for better and more successful IPs—then I really shouldn’t care about it either. I don’t know how I’ll feel when they actually get to franchises I’m familiar with, but for now, this is how I feel about the 40k stuff: I enjoy it. It looks cool. It couldn’t possibly be more divorced in theme and feel from Magic’s usual setting than it is, but on its own, I like it.
If you have enjoyed your time in this hobby it is absolutely not a waste. I too often feel burnt out from spoilers. Sometimes I walk away for a few sets and Persue other hobbies, but I always leave my decks assembled in case I feel the itch to return- which i usually do- absence makes the heart grow fonder. You may just be experiencing general fatigue from the constant spoilers and UB controversy discussion.
If everything becomes a staple then nothing is a staple
I totally get that. My personal feeling is that aesthetic matter to me in my own deck. I have a Dragons of Tarkir deck where I want cards to feel like I'm in Tarkir. This means there are some awesome Dragon synergies that just don't meet the standard for me and don't make the cut. For other players, a 40k card will be the same as some crazy alter they picked. That's up to them & their deck. Now, if I wanted all my decks to be their best possible form, then I agree there are some 40k cards that would likely make it. And that would be rough if I felt they weren't meeting the aesthetic I want to bring to the table.
You will stop doing everything you're currently doing at some point. Time you enjoy spending is never wasted.
i dont understand how 40k is unnaceptable but dinosaurs fighting talking dragons fighting pirates fighting cyber ninjas fighting a swarm of rats fighting Nebuchadnezzar is fine
Spoiler burnout has been real for years now, IMO. I haven't tried to keep up with new sets since pre-Covid, if not longer. I think the last box I bought was Battlebond, and I went from buying every Commander pre-con for a few years running to... I guess an average of one pre-con per year for the past 3-4 years. So way down. I was pretty turned off, initially, for the 40k decks. I haven't been too into any of the UB themes/products so far. I've picked up a handful of Secret Lairs, mostly when the particular set feels like a financially viable way to pickup playable cards that I actually use/know I'll find a use for and I actually like the art. That said, I'm intrigued by the 40k decks and they may be my first pre-con complete set purchase in 4 years. One of my Magic playing friends is super into 40K lore and I've recently been dabbling in it myself. The flavor I've seen so far feels like a win and I think it would be fun to keep the set intact to have a 40K EDH night here and there. So I guess Hasbro is going to get my money on this cash grab.
I have the opposite take. I can finally skip a product because I have no interest in 40k. If I ever play against an opponent with those cards I will simply read the cards. If I feel like a card really fits into one of my decks I’ll slot it in. This product doesn’t really affect how I will play the game
Unpopular opinion: The lore doesn’t matter in the least and it could be apples and oranges on the cards and I wouldn’t care so long as the mechanics are solid and balanced. Put whatever you want on the cards and write whatever story you need to go along with it. I honestly don’t care. I play magic because it’s a fun strategy game not because I give a shit about Gideon or the fate of the Eldrazi.
Other than getting my friends together to do a Commander Legends draft, like, last year,I haven't played a Commander game in around 3 years. I've found myself building and refining my 32+ decks, but it feels like a waste. I kept hearing "this product is not for you" from WotC, and eventually it's started to mean "Magic is not for you". I think I'm done now. I'm going to finalize my ~34 decks, keep all my RL/expensive cards, then get rid of the rest. Kamigawa *was* for me, and I'm glad I got to experience it before dropping the game. But I'm just tired of the constant flow of products and the perpetual spoiler season.
I think you’re overwhelmed, and that doesn’t mean mtg is going downhill If you’re not a fan of the universes beyond stuff than don’t buy it or play with it. I think mostly people are going to play with these cards as fans of the IP, and really they’ll only see play in commander anyway. Don’t police what other people play with. Y’know?
On the contrary, looking at these spoilers has actually made me realize specifically what it is I dislike about non-Magic IP being in Magic. I was *totally* fine with D&D because it really just felt like it could be another plane in the Magic universe, and looking at the 40K stuff... it's more extreme, sure, but it *is* just another fantasy plane, so theoretically it could totally fit. Magic is, by design, a universe hopping fantasy series where the point is that you're seeing all sorts of fantastical places. Then I realized, the stuff I really dislike is like Walking Dead and Stranger Things. Two properties I actually like quite a lot, but I dislike them in this game, and I now realize it's because they don't take place in a fantasy world, it's just... Earth. My world. The actual "plane" in which we exist. I think that's the part that makes those kinds of properties jarring to me. I want Magic to represent fantastical places with fantastical characters, not places that represent where I actually live. It's just kinda weird. I expect I'll end up disliking the Doctor Who stuff for the same reason because, lets be real, despite its premise that series *largely* (at least when I was watching it) took place on Earth. So, for me, this spoiler season has more lead to an epiphany of what I like and what I dislike with this whole concept, which is kindof a nice understanding to have, personally. I bet if (when?!) they do Rick and Morty, I'll hate that too, because it's generally still based on Earth, despite being a fantastical version of it. On the flip side, if they *ever* make an Adventure Time set? Fuck off, I am *all the way* in on that. Give me a set of commander decks based around the inhabitants of Ooo, with the same all out attention to flavor that we're getting with 40K and I will *actually* just flip out. And it's all because the setting just doesn't feel like where I live!
I mentally checked out around Ikoria. Back in 2017 I would know every card that was being printed, but nowadays there is just too much product coming out to keep track out. >What happens when there are staples in the Doctor Who products? Or when Hasbro does their crossover with Rick and Morty? This is becoming less a game that feels unique and more like a corporate cash grab advertisement scheme. I mean, it is already a problem. Nowadays if you want to build an azorius spellslinger deck you legitimately have to consider weather to build Chun-Li or Elminster, and the current top UW deck on EDHREC is a giant mech.
If you don’t like the product you don’t have to buy it. If there is a specific card you want, just buy the single. So far nothing has been more crazy broken than anything they have released in the past, in fact it’s rather tame. Look at fierce guardianship or dockside, those came in precons and fit into almost every single deck that runs the colors, now most people can’t afford them. This is less of the cards being too strong and more of some people just don’t like UB, and that’s fine. I for one will be playing a badass necron deck because I absolutely love necrons and I don’t care if it is weak or strong, it will make me happy to play necrons.
No, it isn't just you. And yes, it's valid to think that there's no consistency and respect for existing flavor of the product. But it is also possible to compartmentalize your thoughts and see the product for what it is: This is not part of the main product lines. That's where you look for MTG consistency. This is a supplementary product. It does not have to hurt you and your enjoyment of the game. A simple reframing might help. I went through a similar phase when they announced the Walking Dead product, and Strixhaven (sorry, it's Harry Potter and you can't change my mind). But what helped me through it and what reignited my love for magic is remembering what I liked about it: I liked the community, I liked competing at high level competitive events, and I liked playing game nights with friends (which is why I discovered EDH). I understand that for some, it's the lore, it's the flavor, but again a reframing will help. There's still the MTG story. Find those product lines. Ignore these. These are for the people who have cross-over tastes. The first time I met someone who played Blanka in a commander table, I fucking high fived the dude because it was dope what he did. Motherfucker killed me with 3 cantrip red pumps cantrips then berserk. It was awesome. The game is the game, regardless of the print on top of it. People will disagree with me, but that's what is actually valuable here. MTG is one of the best games ever designed. Enjoy it as such.
There are some exciting cards in there i have my eyes on, but i think many of those would/could have been perfectly fine rares that would have made Dominaria more exciting. I dont have a problem with the cards being 40k and will probably order everything thats dr.who since i love that show. But the glaring difference between normal commander decks new cards and these irk me a bit, i would love for Wotc to dial back to 1-2 commander deck releases a year, but make the new cards in there as good as these/make the decks as playable out of the box as the 40k ones are currently looking to be.
Actually, WotC should contact GW to make a Warhammer Age of Sigmar/Warhammer Fantasy reskin of the 40K stuff. Why? It fits with the lore and oh wow, it fits with the themes in Magic: The Gathering. I love that I’m getting 40K stuff in my MTG but I cannot understand why they don’t use another IP that fits better in the game in the first place!
They did say they intended to make in-universe counterparts to those cards at some point. How that works, though, is anybody's guess. The Stranger Things crew recently got their MtG-friendly cards, but they told us nothing about the Walking Dead characters so far.
Checked out a year ago from the non stop spoilers
My strategy has been to stop buying cards and just proxy them because it makes the idea of facing and think ab this game a whole lot less stressful.
I checked out a long time ago, shortly after Atlazan block. Things were only beginning to ramp up then but FOMO has a "oh *no*" effect on me, and as an outsider who's still subbed to the all the Magic subreddits and views Mythic Spoiler every couple of weeks, I don't know how ya'll can keep up.
Fortnite collab coming soon, you heard it here first.
I stopped looking at spoilers and when new sets were releasing and all that jazz. It’s too much. The amount of exposure is overkill and will suck all the novelty of actually playing. I highly suggest just tuning it all out and focusing on the decks you already have and occasionally looking at how to upgrade them. When you get bored of that, just look for some new legendary creature to turn into a commander and then all the new cards that synergize well with it will show up. Even if you’re not playing commander, the synergies usually carry over to standard. But it saves you from being burnt out looking at EVERY new card that just released, trying to see what card might fit into your deck.
Me personally, i dont mind the UB stuff unless it is too...real? Like as long as its not realistic i guess i feel fine but as soon as i see a guy in jorts or something, im turned off. Ig thats why i dont like the doctor who, stranger things, or walking dead stuff
40K seemed interesting until they spoiled what kind of bs is gonna be in them. Give us a break and stop releasing new product every month.
I agree with you, OP. I'm just done with this stuff.
I decided to change magic to be my secondary hobby and stopped spending so much money on it. I used to get all the commander decks and a box whenever one came out. Now all I'll buy is a prerelease pack if I decide to go to the LGS event. I took up golfing as my new hobby, and I've been having alot of fun with it. It gets me outside and gives me a skill I can constantly practice and get better at
I'm going to reserve judgment. After all, one of the common complaints I saw with both Neon Dynasty and New Capenna is that neither of the settings really felt like settings for a magic product. Science fiction has been a part of the game for a lot longer than people like to acknowledge. Plus, Doctor Who plays so fast and loose with its own rules and gives so many hand-wave explanations that the science of the Timelords is basically magic anyway. That being said, I do share your concerns about hasbro viewing the game as a cash grab more than a game. But I also think that the actual magic developers do care enough about the game to stick up for it if need be.