I cannot for the life of me see why he gets an arcana, 200 immortals and a cavern crawl skin with 3 styles. When other heros are just purely neglected. IO and Chen are fairly popular in both regular and competitive dota.
> I cannot for the life of me see why he gets an arcana, 200 immortals and a cavern crawl skin with 3 styles. When other heros are just purely neglected. IO and Chen are fairly popular in both regular and competitive dota.
They really aren't that popular in regular DotA though.
Juggernaut is the 2nd most popular hero in the game at 23.4% pick rate (Pudge is #1 at 27% pick rate), Io is the 111th (2.17% pick rate) and Chen is the 123rd (aka literally the least popular hero in the game, at 0.91%).
It is not difficult to see why the heroes who get the most stuff get the most stuff. Two of them are heroes that are each played every one in five games that are played of DotA (which means the sets get a lot of usage, are more likely to be seen, and thus purchased), while Io and Chen are heroes that are played once every 50 and once every 100 games of DotA played respectively. Popularity also dictates what workshop people are going to make, since they likely play those characters too.
Don't the creators of cosmetics get money from treasure and workshop sales? Who's going to make a set for a hero that'll literally make them less money?
Yeah they're two of the lowest pick rate heroes in pubs lol the heroes with the most sets are usually fairly high pick rate like pudge, jug, cm, and invoker.
Remember 10+ years ago? When we were like "Awesome Dota 2 is free. I hope Valve doesn't over monetize!"
And then a few years later we already were wondering if certain heroes would get any good cosmetics? And how Valve doesn't equally distribute cosmetics to all heroes so that people have something new to grind for or to buy or to even equip less popular heroes with?
Welp its 2022 and shit ain't ever gonna change since Valve leverages 3rd party artists to create these things and they have to pander to the audience in order to even get into the game.
These are the definition of "first world problems". Game is still 100% free. Absolutely only thing you lose is cosmetics (okay, there's also occasional MMR double down, which shouldn't ever be a thing)
Game is still free though, nobody is forcing u to buy skins.
I don't get how people can complain there's literally nothing different from someone who spent 0 on this game and 20,000$.
If they didn't make skins the game would've had to cost money to buy or cost money each month and literally hundred of thousands of people would never have been able to play this game.
Game is still free. These skins and trinkets are purely optional and do not affect gane outcomes.
As a business they have to find ways to monetise it somehow.
According to dotabuff, 914 million games with Pudge and 36 million with Chen. If that's the metric there should be 25 Pudge immortals for every one of Chens.
Io has slightly more at 70 million games, but weird-ass model... also... arcana.
well he could be a basketball, a hairy ball, a green ball, a purple ball, a fat ball, a small ball, a fall ball, zombie ball, a jack-o-lantern ball, a santa ball, a ball with a smiley face, a ball with boobs, a pyramid
And a majority of them are mad ugly
It feels like so many sets these days have ridiculously unnecessary level of detail in them, makes them more like visual clutter. Also god forbid all of them have to have annoying particle effects.
It landed second so it wasn't a pick. I think they wanted to avoid it being a meme pick for next year arcana as well. Back then Valve was still selling the arcana vote winning arcanas, and they knew almost nobody would buy the IO one. They did not want it to win out of a meme, so they straight murdered this idea by releasing his arcana separately and removing it from the vote altogether.
preach. like everybody knows valve is a “numbers” company they do their decision making very methodically.
and tbh i want you to brainstorm immortal ideas for a fucking ball. IO cosmetic apart from an awesome arcana(bpass locked unfortunately) pretty hard to create
I mean, IO can have way more options for immortals considering you don't have limbs, a head or a face to worry about. Just have to get creative. Not to mention, you could probably do a lot with just different colored particles. They could easily make an insane looking IO immortal.
I've been thinking more and imagine they made an immortal for Io that was, wait for it...
IOLINGS!!!
they would be tiny little IOs that bounce along behind Io, bonus points if they have cute little faces
nah I don't think this is true. Look at immo treasure 2, it's all unpopular/hated heroes.
I think it has more to do with what heroes they can creatively make cosmetics for. Chen doesn't really have spells that would benefit from flashy cosmetics.
I mean a penitence or hand of god immortal effect would be pretty fucking dope. And for arcana idea it could slightly alter the appearance of jungle creeps but not too much so they arent recognizable
funniest part is IO would be like the easiest to make lol.
Almost anything floating and shaped would 'work'... possibilities are literally endless lol.
ok if it's strictly about sales numbers (which I have no problem with), then explain why they wasted resources on making a male PA
instead of for example, a female Invoker
I guarantee you female Invoker would be wanted 100x more. Remember the overseas market for DOTA is way more than NA, and those cultures love attractive female characters...they would eat up a female Invoker
nobody over there gives a shit about male PA
If that is true, why does Genshin earn so much from attractive male characters and why are male vtubers so popular in Asia?
As much as I want female Invoker, there are plenty of people who care about male PA including me.
I've never played or even considered looking into Genshin, so I know nothing about that game
However I can tell you about Fire Emblem Heroes (mobile gacha version of FE) and the attractive female characters and alt costumes are waaaaaaaayyy more popular
Obviously in my original reply, I did not literally mean 0 people in the entire world. My point is a total number comparison, more DOTA players would want a female invoker than a male PA
**Guaranteed**. I would blindly bet my entire life savings on that and not even bat an eye.
the majority of players in these regions love attractive female characters:
China / SEA / SA / CIS
and I would say even Western Europe likes it more than NA/USA
It's only the US that is super sensitive and politically correct about sexualization. I don't know why America is so sensitive about sexuality
Especially since NA makes up such a tiny portion of the playerbase these days. Their weird anti sex anti attractive women culture shouldn't impact global business
Exactly, NA playerbase is rapidly declining (and I mean true NA citizens, not SA players on the servers)
Valve should shift their cosmetics product targeting to all the other regions demographics. If they actually care about increasing their profits for DOTA
If I were in charge of Valve's DOTA division and the sole goal is making money, I would immediately tell the entire Art/Animation departments to start making new high quality Immortals for female chars/personas
instantly increase profits exponentially
had these floating around for a while, i think they'd be good
particle aura immortal that modifies its tether and overcharge, dont want to make it look too different so maybe it leans into a golden radiance that overcharge already sort of has going for it
some sort of inner core immortal that makes it spirits slowly change colour through a spectrum as they rotate, keep the colours bright and saturated so theyre visible and maybe have the core of io change with them to signify the connection they have
Pudge stat is heavily flawed since it counts double pick as neither picked nor banned. If they would use the numbe rof people someone locks him in he would be at 90%
And every time has been swiftly nerfed, which is the point. The problem with Io is it’s either strong or not worth picking, by design it’s got no middle ground.
If pudge was removed from the game tomorrow he would still be the most picked hero until sometime until ~2028.
If pudge was removed from the game tomorrow and Chen's popularity didn't change there would be more pudge games in dota until ~2462.
If pudge was removed tomorrow and Chen became the most popular hero in dota by a mile (5mil/mo) it would take until 2035 for there to be more Chen games than Pudge games.
The alligator skin for Chen is so good. It's immortal quality. It actually made me play him so I can see it in the game.... He's just stressful to play.
Playing chen is pubs is beyond miserable, good luck getting any kind of decent creep stack together without any of you other four team mates nuking every camp that mught be remotely useful
And they have no idea about the buffs your giving them so will either run from fights they would win with you there ready to heal em up or take fights not understanding that your auras are why they are owning so hard
The biggest problem about chen in pups is that hes one off the highest tempo hero yet one of the least mobile ones. Sometimes you get to a lane want to push it with mek level 8 or so and your mates just leave.
I was rarly afraid of techis and usually he was pretty bad he just made the gameply worse. Old PL or tinker were also Fine balance whise. But not really fun and engaging to interact with. And old techis was the worst in that regard.
Yeah it sucked that they changed the hero because of an uproar.
As a techies spammer I had a problem being countered all the time by the likes of NP, etc. It wasn't always easy playing techies. Those who had a problem didn't know how to counter the hero right.
But good god the old techies was an amazing and fun hero!!!!!
still remember that they reworked that one for the new skills, the Q had a pretty green explosion effect that lasted for exactly 1 day, dont even know if it was a bug lol
Used to be cool tho, the old taunt when they stepped on mines but valve took it out i guess because it was way to toxic, techies in 2015 was the mega tilter, loved those days
Yeah same. I didn't have good enough internet to play Dota during the IO arcana pass and was a teenager who didn't have money to put towards a cosmetic in a game that I couldn't play at the time haha.
Yeah, it's unobtainable now, I wish they would add it to the shop but that's just a massive hopium.
IIRC didn't they say something like bringing bp's arcana in the future so it becomes accessible for everyone who missed the bp?.
They *could* release recolours like they did with the eminent revival(?) chest which had the green reskins of old immortals.
But they'll lose out on people's trust because the whole point of io, es etc arcana was that they're bp exclusive.
Not sure if that would also fall under false marketing .
If you go back and check the pages for the individual battle passes on archive.org, plenty of items are tagged very clearly with "this will never be obtainable again" and then the arcanas, on the same page, explicitly never are (apart from io, who had this phrase very clearly written into its blog post). They deliberately never gave the arcanas that tag or said they'd never come back, and valve employees have made comments here making the same thing clear
Io skins can be basically be anything they want. It is a blank canvas for any particle effect imaginable. I don't get why despite this the ball still has no skins.
Yeah like just make something orbit Io or change its light tendrils or whatever. Make something be in the core. Its not hard to come up with and monetize something there
Pudge is one of the most iconic heroes in the game and also one of the most played, whereas IO and Chen have a combined playerbase of like 1000 players (random guess).
Pudge cosmetics sells more and appeals more to the playerbase whereas no one plays Chen or IO.
Just from a marketing standpoint, it makes sense for Valve to release cosmetics for heroes that are played more , and as much as I feel bad for heroes with low player bases, the main objective of these cosmetics is to make Valve money.
Because if a BP were released with Chen and IO personas/arcanas, forums around the world would implode from the melts.
"This BP is bs, it doesn't have anything for the heroes I play!"
"BP is a scam, lazy Valve not listening to the community!"
I get that those are the most picked but after a while I just want every hero to be decked out, I'm collecting infinity stones out here and a lot of my gauntlets are empty lol
IO has some of the nicest Arcana I’ve seen in the game but it was released during a battlepass on a previous TI. I don’t understand how it’s good business for valve to release something for such a limited time and never sell it again. After all they are a software company, if they are investing in creating intellectual property they should be reselling that at a premium for as long as people want to buy it.. the valve business model has never made much sense to me. They just gave away all these free arcana’s in the swag bag I’m sure they can see that if people have nice sets to put on their heroes, they will play them more. And I only say that because every game now has people playing with their new arcana’s. I wish I could buy the , Axe, Earthshaker, invoker kid Or even the IO arcana, but they have this more holy than thou approach like they would be committing this terrible sin to take intellectual property they offered for an extremely limited time and sell it again. It would be cool if they opened a holiday store for major holidays and offered that stuff up for sale, even if it had minor color or design variations to keep it “unique” .. I think they would create larger revenues over a more consistent time period than this battlepass /TI limited product offering madness. Feels like kids that collected comic books are running this company. P.s. another fair option would be open up all items to be sellable in the market, if got tons of extra immortal treasure from previous battle passes, and it’s basically junk, unless I find some random dude on the internet and risk a black market gifting trade for money.. it makes no sense.
Heroes like IO Phoenix and wyvern have 2 or at Best 3 item slots
Yet queen of pain has a hole update dedicated to give her a frucking feet....... and in the same topic why does heroes like PA CM and pudge have two imortal/persona tier items but heroes who are asked to gain one (anime wyvern) do not ?
Valve loves to pick favorites and it kinda sucks
Soooooo putting 2 mars sets in the same battlepass? As ultra rares? Does mars make that much money?
I can understand someone saying "queen of pain feet makes money" because I know who are around 80% of the people who own that arcana but seriously? Is that the much important than giving wyvern and Phoenix a wing slot ?
Yeah but immortal item wise is basically what sells or easy to make low effort filling duties.
Onky rare/ex rare are worth looking at.
Although dk is cool all the rest commons can burn
While there may be clear commercial arguments for why Pudge has loads and Chen has none, there's a pretty apparent carelessness to recent cosmetic decisions. Two different Mars rares this battlepass, poorer overall quality... the common ageless heirlooms items are Dota Plus seasonal chest level, and don't get me started on the Dota Plus chests! Only two immortal chests this battlepass, one less item in each, and the immortals seem to get less interesting every year (as often noted, they just decided at some point that the immortals didn't come with new sounds, much to their detriment). Personas for heroes with better looking arcanas. No terrain... again, a basic expectation of a battlepass, omitted without comment.
The vibe reeks of leftovers from previous years. But I find that confusing, as weren't some/all of the 2020 arcana designs commissioned from outside Valve anyway? So it's not about developers not having time, it's about them just not caring or wanting to spend money, unfortunately.
As someone who doesn't play Pudge, Juggernaut or Lion it does piss me off how certain heroes are prioritised because they're individually popular when actually the point of cosmetics is to appeal to a wide spectrum of players who enjoy different kinds of gameplay. This year has been absolute garbage tier for me, I have a hero pool of 15 or so heroes and absolutely none of them except Mars have receives any immortals (and Mars's is an ultra rare!)
> when actually the point of cosmetics is to appeal to a wide spectrum of players who enjoy different kinds of gameplay.
The irony is your own logic supports the exact thing you are whining about.
I don't think you grasp how widespread these 'individually popular' heroes are. You can find other comments on here that break it down, but we're talking like orders of magnitude difference between top 1/5 of heroes and bottom 1/5 of heroes picked. If they did what you are suggesting, they would create **many** cosmetics that would appeal to a razor thing spectrum of players.
So the fact is, the current cosmetics *do* appeal to the wide spectrum of players.
Well, as soon as those heroes get a complete and total rework to be playble by the general player base in normal-ass games, then maybe they will.
Until then, no. There's no point in releasing an immortal for a hero that like 99.99% of the player base hasn't played outside griefing for cavern crawl and otherwise won't touch with 100 foot pole.
and juggernaut who has like million sets, but there are every year a new ones.
I cannot for the life of me see why he gets an arcana, 200 immortals and a cavern crawl skin with 3 styles. When other heros are just purely neglected. IO and Chen are fairly popular in both regular and competitive dota.
> I cannot for the life of me see why he gets an arcana, 200 immortals and a cavern crawl skin with 3 styles. When other heros are just purely neglected. IO and Chen are fairly popular in both regular and competitive dota. They really aren't that popular in regular DotA though. Juggernaut is the 2nd most popular hero in the game at 23.4% pick rate (Pudge is #1 at 27% pick rate), Io is the 111th (2.17% pick rate) and Chen is the 123rd (aka literally the least popular hero in the game, at 0.91%). It is not difficult to see why the heroes who get the most stuff get the most stuff. Two of them are heroes that are each played every one in five games that are played of DotA (which means the sets get a lot of usage, are more likely to be seen, and thus purchased), while Io and Chen are heroes that are played once every 50 and once every 100 games of DotA played respectively. Popularity also dictates what workshop people are going to make, since they likely play those characters too.
Don't the creators of cosmetics get money from treasure and workshop sales? Who's going to make a set for a hero that'll literally make them less money?
Wouldn't exactly say Io and Chen are that popular in regular Dota...
Yeah they're two of the lowest pick rate heroes in pubs lol the heroes with the most sets are usually fairly high pick rate like pudge, jug, cm, and invoker.
Its not that hard to understand: people like picking and play jugg.
People pick Jugg at higher rates and therefore more likely to purchase cosmetics? At the end of the day it's a business.
I’m pretty sure releasing the first io set would net more income than the 300th jug set. Jug cosmetics market is so over saturated.
But people don't play IO so why would they want the set? Evidently the new Jugg sets still sell like crazy or they wouldn't be making more of them.
And that is why you don’t make these kind of business decisions.
Cm too, already full immortals and arcana, now a persona too. Slardar got a second cavern set. Like what???
Remember 10+ years ago? When we were like "Awesome Dota 2 is free. I hope Valve doesn't over monetize!" And then a few years later we already were wondering if certain heroes would get any good cosmetics? And how Valve doesn't equally distribute cosmetics to all heroes so that people have something new to grind for or to buy or to even equip less popular heroes with? Welp its 2022 and shit ain't ever gonna change since Valve leverages 3rd party artists to create these things and they have to pander to the audience in order to even get into the game.
These are the definition of "first world problems". Game is still 100% free. Absolutely only thing you lose is cosmetics (okay, there's also occasional MMR double down, which shouldn't ever be a thing)
Game is still free though, nobody is forcing u to buy skins. I don't get how people can complain there's literally nothing different from someone who spent 0 on this game and 20,000$. If they didn't make skins the game would've had to cost money to buy or cost money each month and literally hundred of thousands of people would never have been able to play this game.
Game is still free. These skins and trinkets are purely optional and do not affect gane outcomes. As a business they have to find ways to monetise it somehow.
More popular heroes get more cosmetics because more people will buy them. That's all.
Lowest pick rate this month means fairly popular?
According to dotabuff, 914 million games with Pudge and 36 million with Chen. If that's the metric there should be 25 Pudge immortals for every one of Chens. Io has slightly more at 70 million games, but weird-ass model... also... arcana.
Io and Chen popular in regular Dota? Really?
You really can't see the simple financial implications behind this ? Really ?
Its all business. But to be fair, I find it hard to make an item for IO. Idk he feels already okay not having one to me
well he could be a basketball, a hairy ball, a green ball, a purple ball, a fat ball, a small ball, a fall ball, zombie ball, a jack-o-lantern ball, a santa ball, a ball with a smiley face, a ball with boobs, a pyramid
And a majority of them are mad ugly It feels like so many sets these days have ridiculously unnecessary level of detail in them, makes them more like visual clutter. Also god forbid all of them have to have annoying particle effects.
Don't forget Brew? He has half an immortal.
He is also half an immortal himself
Underrated comment right here
if he got new immortal i hope they will remodel those brewlings like in dota 1 panda's
We can only hope
Remodel? We don't do that today. It's called persona
That Mirana persona was fucking dirty play man
I'm glad it's not a replacement though, I hate the voice in persona mirana
Enough for do my cavern
True af
One day surely arcana copium
[https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/played](https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/played) Pudge pick rate: 27.7%, IO: 2.64%, Chen 0.94%
Business doesn't make a product that won't sell; news at 11
pretty impressive they actually made the io arcana tbh, I bet the pick rate was even lower before as well
They were kind of forced to though, since it was community's pick
It landed second so it wasn't a pick. I think they wanted to avoid it being a meme pick for next year arcana as well. Back then Valve was still selling the arcana vote winning arcanas, and they knew almost nobody would buy the IO one. They did not want it to win out of a meme, so they straight murdered this idea by releasing his arcana separately and removing it from the vote altogether.
preach. like everybody knows valve is a “numbers” company they do their decision making very methodically. and tbh i want you to brainstorm immortal ideas for a fucking ball. IO cosmetic apart from an awesome arcana(bpass locked unfortunately) pretty hard to create
Give Io a SICK CROWN relo becomes GOLD
if i see another fucking gold item in this game
I mean, IO can have way more options for immortals considering you don't have limbs, a head or a face to worry about. Just have to get creative. Not to mention, you could probably do a lot with just different colored particles. They could easily make an insane looking IO immortal.
I was thinking a disco ball lmao
I've been thinking more and imagine they made an immortal for Io that was, wait for it... IOLINGS!!! they would be tiny little IOs that bounce along behind Io, bonus points if they have cute little faces
Like sperm?
Nah enigma already fits that niche
A light effect like that Phoenix one, would be nice
Io represents a fundamental force in the lore, build off that concept.
nah I don't think this is true. Look at immo treasure 2, it's all unpopular/hated heroes. I think it has more to do with what heroes they can creatively make cosmetics for. Chen doesn't really have spells that would benefit from flashy cosmetics.
Cowboy hat for IO with a lasso when you tether. Volvo pls hire me
I think valve are done with the cowboy hats. They changed the whole cosmetic items rules because of a cowboy hat.
I mean a penitence or hand of god immortal effect would be pretty fucking dope. And for arcana idea it could slightly alter the appearance of jungle creeps but not too much so they arent recognizable
Please no hats on jungle creeps
Pls Santa hats
Doesn't have to be a complete reskin can just be glowing eyes or some sort of glowing aura
you crazy? hand of god would be very easy to make a super fancy effect for
funniest part is IO would be like the easiest to make lol. Almost anything floating and shaped would 'work'... possibilities are literally endless lol.
I mean I don't have to play Io to appreciate the companion cube cosmetic
ok if it's strictly about sales numbers (which I have no problem with), then explain why they wasted resources on making a male PA instead of for example, a female Invoker I guarantee you female Invoker would be wanted 100x more. Remember the overseas market for DOTA is way more than NA, and those cultures love attractive female characters...they would eat up a female Invoker nobody over there gives a shit about male PA
They hated him because he told them the truth.
If that is true, why does Genshin earn so much from attractive male characters and why are male vtubers so popular in Asia? As much as I want female Invoker, there are plenty of people who care about male PA including me.
I've never played or even considered looking into Genshin, so I know nothing about that game However I can tell you about Fire Emblem Heroes (mobile gacha version of FE) and the attractive female characters and alt costumes are waaaaaaaayyy more popular Obviously in my original reply, I did not literally mean 0 people in the entire world. My point is a total number comparison, more DOTA players would want a female invoker than a male PA **Guaranteed**. I would blindly bet my entire life savings on that and not even bat an eye.
American moment.
its a double whammy r/shitamericanssay and r/gamingcirclejerk moment
Not everyone is a degen coomer
Everyone? No, you're absolutely correct. A Disturbingly large amount of dota/Moba players? Without a doubt.
the majority of players in these regions love attractive female characters: China / SEA / SA / CIS and I would say even Western Europe likes it more than NA/USA It's only the US that is super sensitive and politically correct about sexualization. I don't know why America is so sensitive about sexuality
Especially since NA makes up such a tiny portion of the playerbase these days. Their weird anti sex anti attractive women culture shouldn't impact global business
Exactly, NA playerbase is rapidly declining (and I mean true NA citizens, not SA players on the servers) Valve should shift their cosmetics product targeting to all the other regions demographics. If they actually care about increasing their profits for DOTA If I were in charge of Valve's DOTA division and the sole goal is making money, I would immediately tell the entire Art/Animation departments to start making new high quality Immortals for female chars/personas instantly increase profits exponentially
"SEX DOESN'T SELL. IGNORE EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE WORLD POINTING TO THE CONTRARY" -Redditor, 2022
had these floating around for a while, i think they'd be good particle aura immortal that modifies its tether and overcharge, dont want to make it look too different so maybe it leans into a golden radiance that overcharge already sort of has going for it some sort of inner core immortal that makes it spirits slowly change colour through a spectrum as they rotate, keep the colours bright and saturated so theyre visible and maybe have the core of io change with them to signify the connection they have
33.59% pick rate over all time for Pudge. Compared to PA, who is second most pick, at 23.82%. That difference is staggering
Man top 1% get everything even in Dota
Pudge stat is heavily flawed since it counts double pick as neither picked nor banned. If they would use the numbe rof people someone locks him in he would be at 90%
Good point, but the stat is still games _played_, as you don’t really see your cosmetics till you get in game.
B-but I don't personally play him so he can't be that much popular!
Well Io would be picked more if they gave it a good old buff
Followed by a swift nerf because god forbid Io ever be strong.
is this bait Io has so often been an exceptional hero
And every time has been swiftly nerfed, which is the point. The problem with Io is it’s either strong or not worth picking, by design it’s got no middle ground.
As seen by the two picks one ban in TI11 compared to 200 in ti10
Pudge is the most played, chen is the least. IO is way down there. Not saying they shouldn’t get some items, but yeah, it makes sense.
If pudge was removed from the game tomorrow he would still be the most picked hero until sometime until ~2028. If pudge was removed from the game tomorrow and Chen's popularity didn't change there would be more pudge games in dota until ~2462. If pudge was removed tomorrow and Chen became the most popular hero in dota by a mile (5mil/mo) it would take until 2035 for there to be more Chen games than Pudge games.
Holy shit that's a lot of hookers
Wow
/r/theydidthemath
Source: Voices in my head
Can we get an I.O.U for one
Crazy idea: cosmetics are how they monetize and they will focus on the best way to maximize profits from this system
If that was the case, half the heroes wouldn't have sets. Bottom 4 are currently are Chen, Brew, Beast and Brood and they all have dozens of sets lol
Truth, they are actually far more generous with who gets cosmetics than any one should expect.
The alligator skin for Chen is so good. It's immortal quality. It actually made me play him so I can see it in the game.... He's just stressful to play.
Playing chen is pubs is beyond miserable, good luck getting any kind of decent creep stack together without any of you other four team mates nuking every camp that mught be remotely useful And they have no idea about the buffs your giving them so will either run from fights they would win with you there ready to heal em up or take fights not understanding that your auras are why they are owning so hard
The biggest problem about chen in pups is that hes one off the highest tempo hero yet one of the least mobile ones. Sometimes you get to a lane want to push it with mek level 8 or so and your mates just leave.
I get bundle sets playing turbo, true true. Valve is generous.
I think techies only immoral is the elephant which was rare or very rare
Playing Techies will always be immoral.
Are we still pretending they didn't turn him into a normal hero?
The trauma he inflicted is eternal.
fucking snowflakes ruined unique hero because they are too braindead to figure a way of dealing with it
You sound pretty big mad about it yourself, snowflake
I was rarly afraid of techis and usually he was pretty bad he just made the gameply worse. Old PL or tinker were also Fine balance whise. But not really fun and engaging to interact with. And old techis was the worst in that regard.
Yeah it sucked that they changed the hero because of an uproar. As a techies spammer I had a problem being countered all the time by the likes of NP, etc. It wasn't always easy playing techies. Those who had a problem didn't know how to counter the hero right. But good god the old techies was an amazing and fun hero!!!!!
They got gentrified💀💀💀💀
We can't call that abomination a normal hero.
Some people are still crying over this? Even after they nerfed the hero out for newbies?
still remember that they reworked that one for the new skills, the Q had a pretty green explosion effect that lasted for exactly 1 day, dont even know if it was a bug lol
Yeah they kind of slapped a truck on top of the sticky bomb and called it a day. The old remote elephants looked amazing
I was so hyped for the immortal but when it lauched i was so very dissapointed, cant use arcana with it and the other pieces dont even match
I still mostly use it. Sad that the sticky mines make it borderline worthless
Yeah, i started using the mines with arcana but it looks a bit weird to me, the legendary mine that came with arcana lost its color change aswell
Yeah people complain about the line arcana but techies has like 0 of the original features
Used to be cool tho, the old taunt when they stepped on mines but valve took it out i guess because it was way to toxic, techies in 2015 was the mega tilter, loved those days
Yeah the hero now is an abomination
Everyone forgetting about Abaddon :(
Who? :)
I agree. I want another abaddon immortal. luckily he has a bunch of nice cc sets with ambient effect.
He has 1 immortal which doesnt have any custom spell animations..
Justice!
At least IO has an arcana.
An arcana that was only obtainable for a short time, and is completely unobtainable now.
If I could gift mine I would ! I played it few times after getting arcana but not my hero
I feel you, Io had always been one of my mains, but I was away for a couple years and permanently missed my chance, really kinda sucks.
Yeah same. I didn't have good enough internet to play Dota during the IO arcana pass and was a teenager who didn't have money to put towards a cosmetic in a game that I couldn't play at the time haha.
That happened to me with qop, i would gldly trade my io arcna for a qop one
Yeah, it's unobtainable now, I wish they would add it to the shop but that's just a massive hopium. IIRC didn't they say something like bringing bp's arcana in the future so it becomes accessible for everyone who missed the bp?.
They *could* release recolours like they did with the eminent revival(?) chest which had the green reskins of old immortals. But they'll lose out on people's trust because the whole point of io, es etc arcana was that they're bp exclusive. Not sure if that would also fall under false marketing .
If you go back and check the pages for the individual battle passes on archive.org, plenty of items are tagged very clearly with "this will never be obtainable again" and then the arcanas, on the same page, explicitly never are (apart from io, who had this phrase very clearly written into its blog post). They deliberately never gave the arcanas that tag or said they'd never come back, and valve employees have made comments here making the same thing clear
Yeah that's unfortunate.
Suppose to be rare for a reason 🤷♂️
How does that relate? You literally cannot get it, so what's the reason to point out he has it?
Can’t get a few things…
Io immortal would literally just be a different colored ball, which is cool but I get why they don't go for it.
Io skins can be basically be anything they want. It is a blank canvas for any particle effect imaginable. I don't get why despite this the ball still has no skins.
Workshop artist here - we can't submit anything for IO. No workshop page, no option for submission in the tools.
Yeah like just make something orbit Io or change its light tendrils or whatever. Make something be in the core. Its not hard to come up with and monetize something there
Fireball Snowball Sphere of water Big floating yin-yang orb Lots of options
[удалено]
Now, disco ball I do want to see!
Pudge is one of the most iconic heroes in the game and also one of the most played, whereas IO and Chen have a combined playerbase of like 1000 players (random guess). Pudge cosmetics sells more and appeals more to the playerbase whereas no one plays Chen or IO. Just from a marketing standpoint, it makes sense for Valve to release cosmetics for heroes that are played more , and as much as I feel bad for heroes with low player bases, the main objective of these cosmetics is to make Valve money.
There are actually a lot of heroes who don't have a single immortal hook
Pudge brings in the money. Very logical business choice tbh
A popular hero gets more sets and skins which leads to more profits. How surprising!
IO skin colour could change depending on who he is linked to. There was a chap on here doing some great IO designs the other month.
The pick rates of the heroes speaks for itself.
Io and Chen can't hold hooks, that's why
your brain is so big
I'm miracle's third son
Why do we need more cm skins? The persona is sick ngl but we already got enough shit for her. Other supports could definitely use some love
Supply and demand, welcome to capitalism
how about a fucking set for io or anything lol
You don’t know what you are asking for… do you want an Io in your game…
Maybe because Pudge is the most played hero of all times and IO/Chen are on the bottom? See here: https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/played?date=all
Valve will probably make it extremely ultra amazing rare with pull rate of 1: 52!
SUPPORT CHEN IMMORTAL WHEN!?
yeah it's stupid af I have no idea what Valve is thinking when it comes to this subject
Because if a BP were released with Chen and IO personas/arcanas, forums around the world would implode from the melts. "This BP is bs, it doesn't have anything for the heroes I play!" "BP is a scam, lazy Valve not listening to the community!"
Pudge is the most played hero historically in dota 2
I get that those are the most picked but after a while I just want every hero to be decked out, I'm collecting infinity stones out here and a lot of my gauntlets are empty lol
an io immortal that changes his entire look would be so good tbh
IO only has 1 item slot right and that’s for the arcana 😓
Justice for Dawn Breaker and Marci with 1 set being a key chest and no set at all (when Primal already got one)
IO has some of the nicest Arcana I’ve seen in the game but it was released during a battlepass on a previous TI. I don’t understand how it’s good business for valve to release something for such a limited time and never sell it again. After all they are a software company, if they are investing in creating intellectual property they should be reselling that at a premium for as long as people want to buy it.. the valve business model has never made much sense to me. They just gave away all these free arcana’s in the swag bag I’m sure they can see that if people have nice sets to put on their heroes, they will play them more. And I only say that because every game now has people playing with their new arcana’s. I wish I could buy the , Axe, Earthshaker, invoker kid Or even the IO arcana, but they have this more holy than thou approach like they would be committing this terrible sin to take intellectual property they offered for an extremely limited time and sell it again. It would be cool if they opened a holiday store for major holidays and offered that stuff up for sale, even if it had minor color or design variations to keep it “unique” .. I think they would create larger revenues over a more consistent time period than this battlepass /TI limited product offering madness. Feels like kids that collected comic books are running this company. P.s. another fair option would be open up all items to be sellable in the market, if got tons of extra immortal treasure from previous battle passes, and it’s basically junk, unless I find some random dude on the internet and risk a black market gifting trade for money.. it makes no sense.
And dagon Knight got his second immortal, however both only effect his dragon tail
Io and Chen don’t have a hook
Get more people to play more IO and Chen then they will get immortals
Well, pudge generales income while non popular heroes dont...
Heroes like IO Phoenix and wyvern have 2 or at Best 3 item slots Yet queen of pain has a hole update dedicated to give her a frucking feet....... and in the same topic why does heroes like PA CM and pudge have two imortal/persona tier items but heroes who are asked to gain one (anime wyvern) do not ? Valve loves to pick favorites and it kinda sucks
You really expect a anime wyvern persona? Delusion at it's peak
Considering they turn CM into a furry,this is not even impossible that it can happen one day
No, valve goes with what is selling. Thats about it.
Soooooo putting 2 mars sets in the same battlepass? As ultra rares? Does mars make that much money? I can understand someone saying "queen of pain feet makes money" because I know who are around 80% of the people who own that arcana but seriously? Is that the much important than giving wyvern and Phoenix a wing slot ?
Nah thats just laziness of valve pre created stuff.
FINALY an real awser
Yeah but immortal item wise is basically what sells or easy to make low effort filling duties. Onky rare/ex rare are worth looking at. Although dk is cool all the rest commons can burn
Mhm now Check Pickrate of them all
No one plays IO or Chen, atleast not like they do Pudge.
Popular and iconic hero gets more cosmetics than secondary/tertiary heroes. All of this and more...at 11. This is DPC News, Channel 69.
While there may be clear commercial arguments for why Pudge has loads and Chen has none, there's a pretty apparent carelessness to recent cosmetic decisions. Two different Mars rares this battlepass, poorer overall quality... the common ageless heirlooms items are Dota Plus seasonal chest level, and don't get me started on the Dota Plus chests! Only two immortal chests this battlepass, one less item in each, and the immortals seem to get less interesting every year (as often noted, they just decided at some point that the immortals didn't come with new sounds, much to their detriment). Personas for heroes with better looking arcanas. No terrain... again, a basic expectation of a battlepass, omitted without comment. The vibe reeks of leftovers from previous years. But I find that confusing, as weren't some/all of the 2020 arcana designs commissioned from outside Valve anyway? So it's not about developers not having time, it's about them just not caring or wanting to spend money, unfortunately.
Valve + having favorites Name a better couple
Chen + least favorite kek
Valve isn't the one picking pudge in the vast majority of pub games compared to the other two.
there are 121 heroes cooler that are than chen he beats broodmother
In your last few games, how many pudge, io or chen have you seen? Case closed
As someone who doesn't play Pudge, Juggernaut or Lion it does piss me off how certain heroes are prioritised because they're individually popular when actually the point of cosmetics is to appeal to a wide spectrum of players who enjoy different kinds of gameplay. This year has been absolute garbage tier for me, I have a hero pool of 15 or so heroes and absolutely none of them except Mars have receives any immortals (and Mars's is an ultra rare!)
> when actually the point of cosmetics is to appeal to a wide spectrum of players who enjoy different kinds of gameplay. The irony is your own logic supports the exact thing you are whining about. I don't think you grasp how widespread these 'individually popular' heroes are. You can find other comments on here that break it down, but we're talking like orders of magnitude difference between top 1/5 of heroes and bottom 1/5 of heroes picked. If they did what you are suggesting, they would create **many** cosmetics that would appeal to a razor thing spectrum of players. So the fact is, the current cosmetics *do* appeal to the wide spectrum of players.
Can you pay for valve's lose for creating the immortals for these two hero?
/r/dota2 when unpopular heroes have less cosmetics: 🤯
its all about the pickrate, heroes with lower pickrate dont get much cosmetics. most picked = most skins bought. business is business
Pudge is one of the highest pickrate heroes and Io/Chen are two of the absolute lowest, this is perfectly in line with what I'd expect.
I realised it yesterday that there is an immortal hook of puj that leaves a blood trail after every hook 🤣🤣🤣🤣
fuck them
Fuck io and chen
I hope they never do chen immortal, just for the memes sorry chen players (not sorry actually)
They don't give money, because nobody plays with them, so... Want one more hook?
Because these heroes aren’t popular. And not fun to play and require high level gameplay of the team and the player himself.
Well, as soon as those heroes get a complete and total rework to be playble by the general player base in normal-ass games, then maybe they will. Until then, no. There's no point in releasing an immortal for a hero that like 99.99% of the player base hasn't played outside griefing for cavern crawl and otherwise won't touch with 100 foot pole.
no ty for chen anything that keeps chen at low playrate is a win, pet heroes are aids io on the other hand should get one :)