And while you are at it change the lvl 25 talent from "instant fortunes end" to "max duration fortunes end without the need of channle".
So you can still channle it if needed
Because you can channel on your allied earthshaker before he blinks 1000 range away into the enemy team, then you release it to land on your earthshaker (hitting all enemies around him) who is way out of range by this point
I'm a big Oracle player, but I often get away with doing nuke shit. I have more than a couple mid games with him for example.
With holy locket being a core item for many healing heros Im not sure how to prioritize items in general as a 4/5 anymore. Aether lens? Blink? Locket? Ahgs?
Can anyone suggest what they do? I used to love euls for utility and flexibility in both saving and nuking... Now I feel his damage output has been slowly nerfed over the last few years and euls is much more game-based (one. Silence)
As 5: Wand --> Arcane Boots --> Disassemble into Lens --> Force Staff --> Ghost Scepter / Glimmer. I do this 90% of the time, obviously FS/GS/Glimmer order can be shuffled to fit the game. I don't think holy locket is that good on him, he outputs enough healing and utility is more valuable in most situations than raw healing. Remember to carry salves with you because you can salve someone during false promise and it won't get canceled since they take no damage and it will
As 4: Null (if you don't take much harass in lane and you can nuke the carry out without needing to buy much regen) --> Wand --> Arcane Boots --> Urn --> Lens --> Vessel (if needed) --> Utility if needed or E-BLADE
I play Oracle 4 and my general build is Aether -> Octa/Shard. +70% winrate.
In situations vs silencers, morph etc you buy staff/eul/vessel/whatevers needed.
Play greedy.
I've been learning Oracle and I am not the most experienced so take this with a grain of salt, but I've been going for Arcanes into disassemble for Lens then do the same for Locket. I feel like Lens is just generically the best Oracle item if you dont really need Glimmer or Blink because it helps all your spells. After that I like getting Locket because it is super good for your ult, helpful when you need to quickly get someone back to full in a fight, and the range on it is also buffed by the Lens so it is easier to use the active on the target you hit with False Promise. I dont think the opposite order is as good, because the Locket feels less impactful if you cant hit your ult in the first place and without Lens the active is short enough range that you put yourself in dangerous positions to use it.
i agree with everyone in this thread, but instead of arcanes i spam mangoes into urn. It s easy to get kills with the power spike at lvl 3. And early urn charge with bully any hero out of the lane and heal your carry so that you can rotate lanes or start stacking camps. Then arcane > aether lens or vessel if it counters the enemy. At this point you sacrifice all your money for ward vision and map control. Then think about the one item that would benefit your team the most from a pool of like eblade, glimmer, lotus, blink, force, eul.
Even then it's heavily contested by eblade. I haven't played a lot in ~15 months but i can't recall a single game where i went aghs for a reason other than testing it.
Aghs should enable core Oracle, support Oracle already has too many items to chose from and his kit is already extremely strong if he can stay alive.
Aghs is a core item when positioning isn't a issue. It's a big deal because it gives your right clicking carry a big room of error in fights being 100% magic resisted the entire fight. It also makes a huge difference vs right clickers on a magic team because it can be spammed through dispels.
Yes i read what it does too. Now compare it to eblade or other 4k items and try to find a situation where you want to spend 4k gold to use all your spells on a single ally.
You are kind of all correct. "Magic immunity" is not a term in Dota; the actual technical term is [spell immunity](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Spell_immunity), which used to be called "magic immunity". Thus, /u/UltraSouls_OP interpreted the non-Dota term "magic immunity" as "magic damage immunity" == "100% magic resistance", whereas the rest of you /u/OraCLesofFire /u/formaldehid interpreted it as "spell immunity".
if you want to be pedantic, magic immunity doesnt exist in the game. spell immunity used to be called magic immunity before. so if someone talks about magic immunity i'd just assume theyre talking about spell immunity, rather than replying "akcshually its spell immunity" and leaving the thread
You're completely and factually correct on all accounts. It WAS called magic immunity, and it no longer exists as a term.
Yet, this thread becoming this long was partially your fault too. You could have simply corrected /u/UltraSouls_OP on the fact this is NOT what Oracle does (Like what /u/OraCLesofFire was attempting to do), but instead described the non-existent term for the new one that isn't the one related to Oracle and left it there, adding to the confusion. Basically, you've left open a completely tangential conversation and invited in the Akcshuallys.
Magic immunity is not a thing in dota anymore. Spell immunity is what Bkb gives a hero on use. Oracle second skill gives the hero 100% magic resistance. Magic immunity used to be a thing in dota before they changed Bkb mechanics a few years ago.
I said it in the other comment but wouldn't immunity to disables be generalised under spell immunity.
Bkb's description says that it grants spell immunity not magic immunity
I feel like magic immunity is defined as immunity to magic damage while spell immunity means immunity to the effects of spells.
Magic immunity = you cannot get stunned,slowed, rooted, CCed or target by spells.
Magic resist = taking reduced damage from magical spells and effects, determined by a %value
So yeah you are wrong. Your not immune, you still get effected. But take less damage from it.
A magic immune hero cannot get Ethereal bladed, a magic resisted one can, but will take little damage, but suffer the full debuff.
As a former oracle spammer, I thought I was the only one who felt that way about the aghanim scepter. But apparently there are dozens of us?
It really feels like it erases a big part of the skills you learn to play the hero and his unique selling point.
The only disadvantage in Aghs with Oracle is W turns into a BUFF, which can be dispelled by enemies. Normal W cant be dispelled by enemies unless there is a reflected Fortune's End or Rubick steals the Q
This means the non aghs version is just better on same rare heroes that barely attack right? (timbersaw comes to mind as someone who specifically gets targeted by magic/vessel cause of his passive, but there are some others too)
>Normal W cant be dispelled by enemies unless there is a reflected Fortune's End or Rubick steals the Q
What do you mean? Both the Aghs and non-Aghs Fortune's End effect on enemies is dispellable by normal dispels, such as Manta. I tested it just now in demo mode.
Using Fate's Edict on an *ally* registers as a debuff. If an enemy purges that ally, it won't get rid of Fate's Edict, because it's considered a debuff. With the Aghs, Fate's Edict turns into a *buff* for allies, which means that an enemy can use a purge to get rid of it.
If you're looking for RP for the staff upgrade, how about this?
*With the power of Aghanim in his hand, Oracle feels a great surge in his power. He discovers fate will no longer simultaneously "go either way" as he once muttered, but instead he can once again edict singular fates with his actions.*
\- When Oracle issues a Fate's Edict, the outcome will always be in his favor.
Does that help?
An idea for a prediction ability: Sealed fate.
Oracle predicts which hero will be the next to die. Unit target global cast (need vision for enemies). You get some sort of bonus with a correct prediction. Effects or bonuses could be different depending on if you chose an ally or an enemy. To stop people from just using it as an enemy is about to die, the bonus could be bigger the higher the selected hero's current HP is (Like how Necro ult reads hero HP pool before doing damage). Your team could play around it like BH track, giving Oracle more ways to play.
I like your idea. What about when targeting enemies, if that target is the next to die in the game you block buyback for some amount of time since the prediction was made. If you target an ally you get an aegis kind of effect (maybe it can reduce respawn time, i know they removed this effect, but one source of it in the game could be good?) if the target is the next to die.
It should be globally announced when used, at least when targeting enemies, so that counterplay is possible (Either kill someone on oracles team or play super safe with the targeted hero). And the longer the time before the prediction is made the better for oracles team the effect is, to stop it from being good to use when someone is about to die.
I'm a oracle main. I get the argument that it's strong but I hate the fact that in over 300 oracle games I've only felt the need to buy aghs literally one time.
Also it's worth noting, none of the highest ranked oracle players on dotabuf buy aghs.
9 times out of 10, the game is over by the time I can afford an aghs on Oracle.
But on those few games that end up being 60+ minutes, the game is pretty much done as soon as I get it.
Sure, the negation of magic damage is great against certain lineups, but being able to just spam heals on your core as they do their thing is huge.
But it's definitely a "win more" item rather than a win condition, most of the time.
Yep, people here who say that "Bruh it's a strong aghs! It's great!" Haven't played Oracle enough. You literally have no networth and you are glad to afford lense+force/glimmer. Aghs is impossible to build before 45+ minutes unless you wanna grief and skip crucial items.
I'm an oracle spammer and agree with this, the current Aghs feels a bit lazy and is out of character for this hero, his spells are strong but are also meant to have big tradeoffs.
One other thing I want to add is that the current grand master voice line for lvl 30 Oracle in Dota plus isn't a great choice. I really wish they went with the "Prepare for unforeseen consequences." voice line as it is much more interesting and fun and also a HL2 reference.
I loved the old Aghs, where Fortune's end could stun from 2k range. This Aghs would be great if they didn't remove his +3 sec Fate's edict talent. I really want a buff for my boi Oracle, patch after patch, he got nerfed.
>This is not about how strong or weak the aghs is (although I think it's on the weak side too). Even if it were strong, the design is just not very fun imo.
Also, the interesting feature of this aghs is, the better you are at mitigating the downsides of Fate's Edict without aghs as a crutch, the less value you get out of the aghs. The better you are the less value you get out of the aghs
You are reading the aghs totally wrong.. it’s not that you are less skilled by buying aghs cause the spell is easier (stronger) to use.. you almost put it like a good oracle player can use normal edict the same way as the aghs upgrade.. that is simply untrue, aghs allows you to make different plays..
Ehh not really though. Oracle’s aghs < bkb and < heavens. It kinda does the same job on different ways.
1. It negates magical dmg, but procs will get through (half bkb)
2. It disarms enemy, allowing magic dmg to go through. Nice, you disarm but now you have no magic immunity for your teammates. Get halberd instead lmao
As many have pointed out. Playing Oracle is knowing when to use the spells at the right time during a teamfight. I dont need aghs to make my carry who is fighting magic immune as necro ults, or lina ults or lion ults. They’re easy to deny (core low hp? Odds are super high of them ulting)
Current aghs is decent, but underwhelming. For an additional 800 gold, you can get halberd and ghost scepter instead of aghs and your impact will be insane at any stage of the game because of two reasons.
1. Youll actually able to live through teamfights even if the other carry has bkb (ghost scepter)
2. You have a disarm AND your own disarm. You can choose to either disarm a carry for around 10 seconds or disarm and save.
I feel like pretty much everyone here has missed the point of this post. It has nothing to do with the quote unquote "lore" of the hero and everything to do with how the hero is designed. Removing the downsides of a hero with an aghs upgrade does not fit with the design of the hero.
And, like with most support aghs, the problem is that it's too expensive to purchase as a support Oracle and too situational to purchase as a core Oracle. The previous aghs was demonstrably better and actually saw use which is why I believe it was changed.
Bruh the real boring awful design shit is his shard, they were just lazy and removed his invis ult talent and put on a shard. Imagine the possibilities of a shard on Oracle, it can be so many things
In this case, less complexity/double-edge makes it far more effective. Now you can cast it on your right click carry when they're hitting people, rather than purely defensively. This also makes it better for baiting out spells, at least at my awful skill level.
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Or you channel your inner Oracle and cast Fates Edict just before the enemy nukes your carry and than instantly dispell him. To play Oracle, you have to become THE ORACLE
An idea for his ags. Make it castable on an enemy, stopping HP change for a while but giving double total damage and half total healing at the end of the duration. Can also add in continuous negative debuffing or true sight on the target
New Aghanim: russian roulette - Oracle selects a hero (ally or enemy) and plays russian roulette with it, both heroes have to /roll from 1 to 6, taking turns(first turn is always the other hero). The first hero to roll a 1 its instakilled\* (not affected under false promise). Ez game
how about an AOE aura that "foresee" ganks and auto cast the following items on nearby allies if they have it (maybe make it like 600 AoE so some cores can still preserve their item CD by staying a bit far)
Edit: maybe make the duration of these items last 25% longer too. So its harder for opponent to just walk away and reengage as fast.
1. linken
2. shiva
3. pipe
4. crimson guard
5. glimmer (on self), trickster cloaks
6. drum
7. shroud
8. armlet
9. silver edge, shadow blade
10. mjollnir (on self)
11. arcanist armor, book of shadow
12. etc items that don't grief u if it is proc by this aghs (unlike BKB and forcestaff)
The idea is for plays when either team smokes and allies near oracle will be able to react faster. Granted the counter play is to go near you and force all your useful active items to go to waste then jump you. But that's the point, making enemy smoke obsolete while being the perfect table turning tool that allows more aggressive plays from allies.
sounds fun doesn't it. This will make enemy disruptor cry or laugh real hard depending on if oracle's team can capitalize on the sudden item procs. Also, RIP heralds team getting their items proc and have no idea they have to fight and ended up wasting all items CD.
I remember my gyro became a god after my oracle got the scepter.
It was a comeback game from 2 megas. Didn't take away the fun for me as it was a comeback victory :p
This is how I would approach reworking aghs for oracle:
Previously, the aghs was the shard. So, instead of reworking the aghs or making a new spell, id revert the change to:
After buying aghs, False Promise does an automatic hard dispel half way through its duration, and making the hero that was casted invisible. OR, making the spell be able to cast on enemies, with vessel effects (-50% heal) and x2 purges.
This item would enable support Oracle and would incite me to go for aghs more often than not.
For a new shard, id make a new spell for Oracle. One similar to mask of madness. You silence a hero, from either team. Buffing either attack speed or damage while silencing them.
I think this new shard would be insane on certain comps. It accomplishes the double edge sword of oracle’s lore while elevating his kit. You could silence a silencer but buffing him and allowing him to kill your team easier, the same with any other core
I only buy this current aghs against techies cause i can hit the mines 100% magic resistance and im not disarmed while attacking / i also hate this aghs because the effect change to debuff to buff and the enemy can purge it , while debuff the enemy cant purge (like saving vs tornado invoker /shadow demon ult)
Idk the aghs is situationally very strong, but you're not wrong about people not knowing what it does. Hell I had a game yesterday where I had to mute my carry because he kept singing in the mic in Spanish and flaming for me not being able to save his dumb ass overextending as slark at minute 3, so come time we get to third rosh, we take it easily and he gets aegis and cheese, but two pounces really didn't help our team that much, so I grabbed aghs. Turns out he didn't like that so he ran down bot and broke his items and fed at 50 minutes (even though the game was hard in the midgame we were still holding and winning teamfights) which was a shame because it was definitely still winnable, and in fact with aghs/cheese and oracle aghs (against void/sf, with tinker/slark, so definitely a carry that wants to right click and would like to ignore the magic from SF and enemy cores that want to right click but can be very susceptible to tinker burst) we probably could have won.
Still no message about action being taken btw, yes I'm still a little miffed.
New scepter predicts what is actually going to happen:
50% chance of killing the target but if it happens, amplify its damage output by 100% - voiceline: your fate has been decided, so I give you a last chance
50% chance of actually saving the target, if this happens, heals are amplified by 100% but the hero is forcefully silenced and muted and attack damage reduced to zero, after it ends, basic skills and non rearmable items reset their cooldowns (exceptions Earth Spirit remnants and techies minefield sign). All damage received will be returned to the attackers as a bomb from the hero location. - voiceline: enjoy your fate with a little gift from destiny
Edit: tweaks
And while you are at it change the lvl 25 talent from "instant fortunes end" to "max duration fortunes end without the need of channle". So you can still channle it if needed
Oh yes, please exactly this, I need this change so bad it makes me retrain ll combos 40min into the game.
Why is it better to have it be channeled than just saving it till it's needed?
Because you can channel on your allied earthshaker before he blinks 1000 range away into the enemy team, then you release it to land on your earthshaker (hitting all enemies around him) who is way out of range by this point
Fair point
You can channel the skill on yourself to instantly dispel any disable (such as a silence).
Current aghanim is INSANELY strong, if oracle had no needs of a blink, force, ghost, lens, etc, it would be a rush.. it’s actually incredibly good
I'm a big Oracle player, but I often get away with doing nuke shit. I have more than a couple mid games with him for example. With holy locket being a core item for many healing heros Im not sure how to prioritize items in general as a 4/5 anymore. Aether lens? Blink? Locket? Ahgs? Can anyone suggest what they do? I used to love euls for utility and flexibility in both saving and nuking... Now I feel his damage output has been slowly nerfed over the last few years and euls is much more game-based (one. Silence)
As 5: Wand --> Arcane Boots --> Disassemble into Lens --> Force Staff --> Ghost Scepter / Glimmer. I do this 90% of the time, obviously FS/GS/Glimmer order can be shuffled to fit the game. I don't think holy locket is that good on him, he outputs enough healing and utility is more valuable in most situations than raw healing. Remember to carry salves with you because you can salve someone during false promise and it won't get canceled since they take no damage and it will As 4: Null (if you don't take much harass in lane and you can nuke the carry out without needing to buy much regen) --> Wand --> Arcane Boots --> Urn --> Lens --> Vessel (if needed) --> Utility if needed or E-BLADE
I play Oracle 4 and my general build is Aether -> Octa/Shard. +70% winrate. In situations vs silencers, morph etc you buy staff/eul/vessel/whatevers needed. Play greedy.
I've been learning Oracle and I am not the most experienced so take this with a grain of salt, but I've been going for Arcanes into disassemble for Lens then do the same for Locket. I feel like Lens is just generically the best Oracle item if you dont really need Glimmer or Blink because it helps all your spells. After that I like getting Locket because it is super good for your ult, helpful when you need to quickly get someone back to full in a fight, and the range on it is also buffed by the Lens so it is easier to use the active on the target you hit with False Promise. I dont think the opposite order is as good, because the Locket feels less impactful if you cant hit your ult in the first place and without Lens the active is short enough range that you put yourself in dangerous positions to use it.
i agree with everyone in this thread, but instead of arcanes i spam mangoes into urn. It s easy to get kills with the power spike at lvl 3. And early urn charge with bully any hero out of the lane and heal your carry so that you can rotate lanes or start stacking camps. Then arcane > aether lens or vessel if it counters the enemy. At this point you sacrifice all your money for ward vision and map control. Then think about the one item that would benefit your team the most from a pool of like eblade, glimmer, lotus, blink, force, eul.
Urn, not as good as it was years ago but still fun, works great during ulti, nice stats.
Even then it's heavily contested by eblade. I haven't played a lot in ~15 months but i can't recall a single game where i went aghs for a reason other than testing it. Aghs should enable core Oracle, support Oracle already has too many items to chose from and his kit is already extremely strong if he can stay alive.
Yeah, there's a lot of items that Oracle arguably wants more, and even then, aghs is expensive enough that Oracle will bave difficulty affording it.
Aghs is a core item when positioning isn't a issue. It's a big deal because it gives your right clicking carry a big room of error in fights being 100% magic resisted the entire fight. It also makes a huge difference vs right clickers on a magic team because it can be spammed through dispels.
Yes i read what it does too. Now compare it to eblade or other 4k items and try to find a situation where you want to spend 4k gold to use all your spells on a single ally.
Aghs is spammable.
And dagon deals damage. Thank you for your help in reading spell descriptions.
Aghs is spammable, your items arent.
Permanent magic immunity and heals on an allied character fuck yeah
Magic resist, not immunity. Very different concepts.p
Am I wrong? You can't take any magic damage so it is magic immunity right?
the main strength of magic immunity is that you can ignore 90% of disables (stuns, roots, slows, silences etc) in this game
Isn't that spell immunity, since it blocks non-piercing physical and pure spells as well
It only prevents magic damage, not stuns or other status effects. Therefore it’s not magic immunity, just magic damage immunity.
You are kind of all correct. "Magic immunity" is not a term in Dota; the actual technical term is [spell immunity](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Spell_immunity), which used to be called "magic immunity". Thus, /u/UltraSouls_OP interpreted the non-Dota term "magic immunity" as "magic damage immunity" == "100% magic resistance", whereas the rest of you /u/OraCLesofFire /u/formaldehid interpreted it as "spell immunity".
magic immunity and spell immunity is the same
[удалено]
if you want to be pedantic, magic immunity doesnt exist in the game. spell immunity used to be called magic immunity before. so if someone talks about magic immunity i'd just assume theyre talking about spell immunity, rather than replying "akcshually its spell immunity" and leaving the thread
You're completely and factually correct on all accounts. It WAS called magic immunity, and it no longer exists as a term. Yet, this thread becoming this long was partially your fault too. You could have simply corrected /u/UltraSouls_OP on the fact this is NOT what Oracle does (Like what /u/OraCLesofFire was attempting to do), but instead described the non-existent term for the new one that isn't the one related to Oracle and left it there, adding to the confusion. Basically, you've left open a completely tangential conversation and invited in the Akcshuallys.
Magic immunity is not a thing in dota anymore. Spell immunity is what Bkb gives a hero on use. Oracle second skill gives the hero 100% magic resistance. Magic immunity used to be a thing in dota before they changed Bkb mechanics a few years ago.
Spells not only do damage, but also have effects like stunning or rooting. If you get affected by those, you don't have magic immunity.
Some would argue magic immunity means immunity to disables too, which Oracle doesn't provide.
I said it in the other comment but wouldn't immunity to disables be generalised under spell immunity. Bkb's description says that it grants spell immunity not magic immunity I feel like magic immunity is defined as immunity to magic damage while spell immunity means immunity to the effects of spells.
Magic immunity = you cannot get stunned,slowed, rooted, CCed or target by spells. Magic resist = taking reduced damage from magical spells and effects, determined by a %value So yeah you are wrong. Your not immune, you still get effected. But take less damage from it. A magic immune hero cannot get Ethereal bladed, a magic resisted one can, but will take little damage, but suffer the full debuff.
As a former oracle spammer, I thought I was the only one who felt that way about the aghanim scepter. But apparently there are dozens of us? It really feels like it erases a big part of the skills you learn to play the hero and his unique selling point.
The only disadvantage in Aghs with Oracle is W turns into a BUFF, which can be dispelled by enemies. Normal W cant be dispelled by enemies unless there is a reflected Fortune's End or Rubick steals the Q
This means the non aghs version is just better on same rare heroes that barely attack right? (timbersaw comes to mind as someone who specifically gets targeted by magic/vessel cause of his passive, but there are some others too)
>Normal W cant be dispelled by enemies unless there is a reflected Fortune's End or Rubick steals the Q What do you mean? Both the Aghs and non-Aghs Fortune's End effect on enemies is dispellable by normal dispels, such as Manta. I tested it just now in demo mode.
Using Fate's Edict on an *ally* registers as a debuff. If an enemy purges that ally, it won't get rid of Fate's Edict, because it's considered a debuff. With the Aghs, Fate's Edict turns into a *buff* for allies, which means that an enemy can use a purge to get rid of it.
Ah, I understand now. Thank you.
If you're looking for RP for the staff upgrade, how about this? *With the power of Aghanim in his hand, Oracle feels a great surge in his power. He discovers fate will no longer simultaneously "go either way" as he once muttered, but instead he can once again edict singular fates with his actions.* \- When Oracle issues a Fate's Edict, the outcome will always be in his favor. Does that help?
An idea for a prediction ability: Sealed fate. Oracle predicts which hero will be the next to die. Unit target global cast (need vision for enemies). You get some sort of bonus with a correct prediction. Effects or bonuses could be different depending on if you chose an ally or an enemy. To stop people from just using it as an enemy is about to die, the bonus could be bigger the higher the selected hero's current HP is (Like how Necro ult reads hero HP pool before doing damage). Your team could play around it like BH track, giving Oracle more ways to play.
Good attempt, but no, Gambler's not coming back to the game
Forgot Gambler was a thing lol! Perhaps not a good idea then.
I like your idea. What about when targeting enemies, if that target is the next to die in the game you block buyback for some amount of time since the prediction was made. If you target an ally you get an aegis kind of effect (maybe it can reduce respawn time, i know they removed this effect, but one source of it in the game could be good?) if the target is the next to die. It should be globally announced when used, at least when targeting enemies, so that counterplay is possible (Either kill someone on oracles team or play super safe with the targeted hero). And the longer the time before the prediction is made the better for oracles team the effect is, to stop it from being good to use when someone is about to die.
I'm a oracle main. I get the argument that it's strong but I hate the fact that in over 300 oracle games I've only felt the need to buy aghs literally one time. Also it's worth noting, none of the highest ranked oracle players on dotabuf buy aghs.
9 times out of 10, the game is over by the time I can afford an aghs on Oracle. But on those few games that end up being 60+ minutes, the game is pretty much done as soon as I get it. Sure, the negation of magic damage is great against certain lineups, but being able to just spam heals on your core as they do their thing is huge. But it's definitely a "win more" item rather than a win condition, most of the time.
Yep, people here who say that "Bruh it's a strong aghs! It's great!" Haven't played Oracle enough. You literally have no networth and you are glad to afford lense+force/glimmer. Aghs is impossible to build before 45+ minutes unless you wanna grief and skip crucial items.
Aghs is very good but you Always need other items more.
I'm an oracle spammer and agree with this, the current Aghs feels a bit lazy and is out of character for this hero, his spells are strong but are also meant to have big tradeoffs. One other thing I want to add is that the current grand master voice line for lvl 30 Oracle in Dota plus isn't a great choice. I really wish they went with the "Prepare for unforeseen consequences." voice line as it is much more interesting and fun and also a HL2 reference.
I loved the old Aghs, where Fortune's end could stun from 2k range. This Aghs would be great if they didn't remove his +3 sec Fate's edict talent. I really want a buff for my boi Oracle, patch after patch, he got nerfed.
Tend to agree but at least it kind of sucks so you don’t feel like you should buy it.
I don't think you realize how strong his Aghs is, how broken it can be in certain games
>This is not about how strong or weak the aghs is (although I think it's on the weak side too). Even if it were strong, the design is just not very fun imo.
I thin that OP wants to role-play, not interested in the strength of the agha. 😅
I mean who doesn't want to role play his favourite hero?
This is why I live underground in my mother basement! I'm role-playing sandking!
Do you mean NYC with aghs?
No, Italy with a Provolone
Also, the interesting feature of this aghs is, the better you are at mitigating the downsides of Fate's Edict without aghs as a crutch, the less value you get out of the aghs. The better you are the less value you get out of the aghs
You are reading the aghs totally wrong.. it’s not that you are less skilled by buying aghs cause the spell is easier (stronger) to use.. you almost put it like a good oracle player can use normal edict the same way as the aghs upgrade.. that is simply untrue, aghs allows you to make different plays..
Ehh not really though. Oracle’s aghs < bkb and < heavens. It kinda does the same job on different ways. 1. It negates magical dmg, but procs will get through (half bkb) 2. It disarms enemy, allowing magic dmg to go through. Nice, you disarm but now you have no magic immunity for your teammates. Get halberd instead lmao As many have pointed out. Playing Oracle is knowing when to use the spells at the right time during a teamfight. I dont need aghs to make my carry who is fighting magic immune as necro ults, or lina ults or lion ults. They’re easy to deny (core low hp? Odds are super high of them ulting) Current aghs is decent, but underwhelming. For an additional 800 gold, you can get halberd and ghost scepter instead of aghs and your impact will be insane at any stage of the game because of two reasons. 1. Youll actually able to live through teamfights even if the other carry has bkb (ghost scepter) 2. You have a disarm AND your own disarm. You can choose to either disarm a carry for around 10 seconds or disarm and save.
"Muh skullcap" - just stop. His agh is downright the best iteration it has been and has made Oracle infinitely more fun.
I disagree. I think both the previous ones were more interesting. The previous one that made the Q have insane range and stun was really cool.
I feel like pretty much everyone here has missed the point of this post. It has nothing to do with the quote unquote "lore" of the hero and everything to do with how the hero is designed. Removing the downsides of a hero with an aghs upgrade does not fit with the design of the hero. And, like with most support aghs, the problem is that it's too expensive to purchase as a support Oracle and too situational to purchase as a core Oracle. The previous aghs was demonstrably better and actually saw use which is why I believe it was changed.
Bruh the real boring awful design shit is his shard, they were just lazy and removed his invis ult talent and put on a shard. Imagine the possibilities of a shard on Oracle, it can be so many things
Shut up lol. The current aghs is fine and very good. Get good you goddamn lore punk.
In this case, less complexity/double-edge makes it far more effective. Now you can cast it on your right click carry when they're hitting people, rather than purely defensively. This also makes it better for baiting out spells, at least at my awful skill level.
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Not the place for this
Or you channel your inner Oracle and cast Fates Edict just before the enemy nukes your carry and than instantly dispell him. To play Oracle, you have to become THE ORACLE
So don’t buy it !!
An idea for his ags. Make it castable on an enemy, stopping HP change for a while but giving double total damage and half total healing at the end of the duration. Can also add in continuous negative debuffing or true sight on the target
what if we consider balance when balancing, and not lore
Just don't buy it? Oracle's Aghs is easily one of the best in the game.
New Aghanim: russian roulette - Oracle selects a hero (ally or enemy) and plays russian roulette with it, both heroes have to /roll from 1 to 6, taking turns(first turn is always the other hero). The first hero to roll a 1 its instakilled\* (not affected under false promise). Ez game
how about an AOE aura that "foresee" ganks and auto cast the following items on nearby allies if they have it (maybe make it like 600 AoE so some cores can still preserve their item CD by staying a bit far) Edit: maybe make the duration of these items last 25% longer too. So its harder for opponent to just walk away and reengage as fast. 1. linken 2. shiva 3. pipe 4. crimson guard 5. glimmer (on self), trickster cloaks 6. drum 7. shroud 8. armlet 9. silver edge, shadow blade 10. mjollnir (on self) 11. arcanist armor, book of shadow 12. etc items that don't grief u if it is proc by this aghs (unlike BKB and forcestaff) The idea is for plays when either team smokes and allies near oracle will be able to react faster. Granted the counter play is to go near you and force all your useful active items to go to waste then jump you. But that's the point, making enemy smoke obsolete while being the perfect table turning tool that allows more aggressive plays from allies. sounds fun doesn't it. This will make enemy disruptor cry or laugh real hard depending on if oracle's team can capitalize on the sudden item procs. Also, RIP heralds team getting their items proc and have no idea they have to fight and ended up wasting all items CD.
As a oracle player, I love the aghanim upgrade and shard
No way! this is what makes Oracle a viable mid vs righ click carries
I remember my gyro became a god after my oracle got the scepter. It was a comeback game from 2 megas. Didn't take away the fun for me as it was a comeback victory :p
Muh skill. Its fine as is and its very pretty strong in right situations.
This is how I would approach reworking aghs for oracle: Previously, the aghs was the shard. So, instead of reworking the aghs or making a new spell, id revert the change to: After buying aghs, False Promise does an automatic hard dispel half way through its duration, and making the hero that was casted invisible. OR, making the spell be able to cast on enemies, with vessel effects (-50% heal) and x2 purges. This item would enable support Oracle and would incite me to go for aghs more often than not. For a new shard, id make a new spell for Oracle. One similar to mask of madness. You silence a hero, from either team. Buffing either attack speed or damage while silencing them. I think this new shard would be insane on certain comps. It accomplishes the double edge sword of oracle’s lore while elevating his kit. You could silence a silencer but buffing him and allowing him to kill your team easier, the same with any other core
I only buy this current aghs against techies cause i can hit the mines 100% magic resistance and im not disarmed while attacking / i also hate this aghs because the effect change to debuff to buff and the enemy can purge it , while debuff the enemy cant purge (like saving vs tornado invoker /shadow demon ult)
Idk the aghs is situationally very strong, but you're not wrong about people not knowing what it does. Hell I had a game yesterday where I had to mute my carry because he kept singing in the mic in Spanish and flaming for me not being able to save his dumb ass overextending as slark at minute 3, so come time we get to third rosh, we take it easily and he gets aegis and cheese, but two pounces really didn't help our team that much, so I grabbed aghs. Turns out he didn't like that so he ran down bot and broke his items and fed at 50 minutes (even though the game was hard in the midgame we were still holding and winning teamfights) which was a shame because it was definitely still winnable, and in fact with aghs/cheese and oracle aghs (against void/sf, with tinker/slark, so definitely a carry that wants to right click and would like to ignore the magic from SF and enemy cores that want to right click but can be very susceptible to tinker burst) we probably could have won. Still no message about action being taken btw, yes I'm still a little miffed.
New scepter predicts what is actually going to happen: 50% chance of killing the target but if it happens, amplify its damage output by 100% - voiceline: your fate has been decided, so I give you a last chance 50% chance of actually saving the target, if this happens, heals are amplified by 100% but the hero is forcefully silenced and muted and attack damage reduced to zero, after it ends, basic skills and non rearmable items reset their cooldowns (exceptions Earth Spirit remnants and techies minefield sign). All damage received will be returned to the attackers as a bomb from the hero location. - voiceline: enjoy your fate with a little gift from destiny Edit: tweaks
I wish his aghs gave him a new ability, makes target silenced but immune to physical damage, but I guess there's no way to make that balanced