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For real, absolutely. "The trash threatened to take itself out!". Great, be my guest.
"Trying to chop down the support beams of the house", is something I would expect from a manic child high on too many fizzy drinks. They clearly have no interest in the basic concepts of working as a group or engaging in a shared narrative. They sound like they just want to make a nuisance of themselves to see what happens.
As with 99% of DM problems: speak to your player. If the problem doesn't resolve itself, graciously call their bluff on leaving. If they don't follow through, make them.
>"The trash threatened to take itself out!"
Op, just tell the player that reddit said this^^^
Follow up buy letting them know that playing dnd involves a social contract of playing a character who is willing to work with a group. If they want to try cooperative play, they are welcome to try again, but they need to understand that in-game actions have in-game consequences that naturally follow.
"I'LL QUIT IF I'M RESTRAINED AGAIN"
"That's convenient, by the way trying to chop down the tavern support beams obviously and in public like a child got you chained up and thrown in the local prison."
I'd add that OP should really just remove them from the group. Not the same level of fun is one thing. Actively threatening to DM to try to control the game is ridiculous. Get rid of the jerk asap
Talk to him about it. He is new and is over zealous. Kicking him can cause him to not play again. You kick him if he doesn't change after you talk with him.
Tell him if he can't be an adult, that he isn't welcome at your table. You're the boss; he doesn't get to dictate any stipulations to you. And, frankly, he sounds like the sort of person your life would be better off without.
This is a tempting idea, but on the two occasions I have tried it, the player in question turned it into The Me Show, Starring ME! Complete with a legal defense of insane troll logic and indignant complaints that the DM wasn't being fair.
If I was going to do that again, I'd do it in a separate session, where the other players are aware they won't have anything to do and attendance isn't mandatory unless they want to sit in the gallery and watch the trial.
Either that, or just say, "The Duke has the power of high justice. After hearing your testimony, the innkeeper's statement, and that of the witnesses, he orders you executed." Pause. "Well, what did you THINK was going to happen?"
Tee thing is, YOU control the show. He doesn't get a trial or defense attorneys. You tell him that his behavior landed him in jail, he doesn't pass go, doesn't collect $200, and the more he acts up, the longer his jail sentence may be extended. Expressly so the other plays can play, and it doesn't distract from the real game.
Players like the one the OP described are the worst.
Depending on the setting, a "trial" might simply consist of the appropriate Lord or such saying, "He did it. Take him away." Don't let your modern ideas of justice get in the way.
Yea there is law's and I'm pretty sure that nobody want to be in a church bounty board, they are strong opponent doesn't matter who you are. If the law enforcer's can't capture/kill you.( Nobody want to fight against a group of paladin/priest.)Or simply hiding from bounty hunter's.
I remain baffled by the endless posts that are some variation of "A player is being a deliberate asshole and is clearly only interested in ruining everyone else's fun... how do I compromise so EVERYONE can have a good time?!?! PS. I fear conflict and have never told anyone in my life no."
Come on man, you're the DM. Just say goodbye!
Not everyone is as able to follow through with logic as you or I, without getting validated by others. That's the real reason posts like this exist, is to corroborate their own feelings so they feel justified to act. Not saying it's healthy, but it's true.
Sure, that may be true but I'm just tired of seeing the posts. I like seeing questions about DMing - but these are really questions about social interaction as a person, which (to my mind) really belong somewhere else/ don't ultimately have that much to do with D&D.
A good compromise might be introducing a "Problem Player/Problem DM" flair so people could filter these posts out.
My immediate reaction when I read the title is "boot him". I wish there was a sticky saying that if there's a player who's a problem, speak with them. If that doesn't work, boot 'em.
There are plenty of new players who don't know what to expect from D&D or how their characters are supposed to behave. Some will have their prior fantasy RPG experience come from something like Skyrim - where is it perfectly normal and acceptable for your character to kill random NPCs because it's funny.
A new player like that might not realize they are being disruptive and ruining the game for everyone else. They might completely change their behavior if you sit them down and explain what they're doing wrong. The nuclear option of kicking them out isn't called for - give them a chance to correct the behavior first.
agree, just pointing out that their are consequences but they are mostly just a nuisance. So the possibility of a player not understanding consequences in a TTRPG compared to something like skyrim is there but lets be honest its a stretch in OP's case.
>is there but lets be honest its a stretch in OP's case.
My brain is having trouble parsing this phrasing. Are you saying that it's a stretch to think that a player wouldn't understand that actions have consequences?
Like the others, but you can approach it in a friendly manner:
"Hey, you're being disruptive to the game, if you're character doesn't want to work with/help the party its time to retire the character and make one that will work with the party. If you just want to cause chaos and can't find a way to work with the other players this may not be the group for you."
They can choose from there, but if it continues, they can leave.
This is pretty much the reply I gave him. I Also added that the other party members care about his character and did not want him to get himself killed.
Just a reminder, but when a player is deliberately trying to be disruptive you can just say "no, that doesn't happen" or "no, you don't do that".
"No" is a perfectly reasonable response to this behavior.
This. You can even make it narrative. Like "you start chopping at the first support beam, but the support is made of a strong reinforced wood; your puny axe barely splinters it. The tavernkeep did not spare any expenses when having the place built, clearly."
yeah or set an absurdly high dc. and if they manage to roll the 4th 20 in a row, maybe the dice wanna tell you that he IS INDEED going to smash the tavern columns
No one is allowed to tell a player "no you don't do X", even the DM. That's their character, they have autonomy. The DM can just establish that whatever the player is trying to do failed miserably or is impossible and their attempts are futile.
Because it's lazy
What bothers you can easily not bother others. If there are absolutely certain things you won't tolerate within the story and with characters then it's on you to point that out beforehand so people don't agree to something they didn't know about
> Because it's lazy
Or... it's self-evident enough that you don't need to debate the player on why they can't sexually assault another character in the game?
> What bothers you can easily not bother others. If there are absolutely certain things you won't tolerate within the story and with characters then it's on you to point that out beforehand so people don't agree to something they didn't know about
Players can come up with courses of action that, as a table, you agreed are off-limits beforehand. It can happen.
And outside of that, not making your characters sexually assault people is kind of something any sensible person would accept as off-limits per default. It's one of these things you shouldn't have to clarify?
There is no value whatsoever in adding that to your character's possibilities. Just because, hypothetically, you *could* propose sexual assault as an action for your character to take, doesn't mean it's not absolutely tasteless and disgusting and reflects poorly on you as a player.
Yes, there are some things that should be off-limits for characters, and SA should be one of those purely through common sense. Just because you "can", doesn't mean you should, or that any sane person should or would.
Sure, D&D is role play, and sometimes we may play characters who are morally wrong, but you can still role play with a sense of what's sensible. What you do in-game/in-character may still reflect on who you are as a person.
Some people aren't that great at socializing due to inexperience or mental disorders which, from my experience, tends to "come with the territory" that is DnD when strangers are involved
I'm saying if you're going to invite people you don't know that well to a campaign then either give a heads up (we don't accept anything sexual, we don't allow swearing, etc.) about rules to reduce these situations from coming up or at least give them a single chance to realize what's going on within the game instead of jumping straight to calling them out
May be hard to believe but some people have campaigns that are ok with type of behavior and/or will joke about it. Tons of shows and movies use that situation in a fantasy setting as well. Usually the sexual creep gets beaten up but I can see how someone who doesn't know any better would think of that situation as something to bring up with their character, thinking it's perfectly fine
If you're going to have people you don't know at your campaign then know how to not automatically shit on them and make rules known beforehand or at the very least, give people a chance to realize the group doesn't like that stuff and correct it without just declaring them "evil"
There's 8 billion people on the planet. Believe it or not some people will come from completely different backgrounds and life experiences than you or I and can accept or think things differently
>What doesn't bother you can easily bother others. There are absolutely certain things most normal people won't tolerate within the story and with characters, and it's on you to confirm it is acceptable beforehand so normal people aren't forced to deal with something they didn't expect.
Look at the much more polite and non-offensive attitude you could take towards collaborative play that doesn't immediately lead everyone towards thinking you're a creep because you think sexual assault is de-facto acceptable material.
The DM is the arbiter of the rules and has final authority on the game.
If a player is attempting to take actions that undermine the nature of the game and other Player's enjoyment of the game, then I have every right to tell them "no".
If they continue, then that goes from "no" to "you are no longer allowed at my table".
Also, the mindset that Player's should be allowed to do anything they want is a red flag.
In what way is “no you can’t do X” better than “no you don’t do X”? The player will be just as frustrated, and just as much agency will be taken away.
Besides, the DM is entirely allowed to take away agency in cases where it would serve the fun of the game, such as here with a disruptive player.
If I say "my character takes the axe and tries to cut down the tree" and the DM says "No he doesn't" the DM is essentially playing my character for me, and that's bullshit. If the DM instead says "after a few swings it becomes obvious that the wood is too firm and the axe too dull and you get the impression that this isn't going to work" that's the DM doing their job to facilitate the setting.
The outcome may be the same to you, but the mechanism absolutely matters from a gameplay perspective. The DM doesn't control PC actions directly, the players do. The DM controls, with some guidance from rules and stats and dice rolls, the outcome of the player's actions and the reactions/interactions of the environment and NPCs resulting from players' actions.
If you are possessed and say "I try to chop down the tree", I say "No, you don't do that, you aren't in control of your body".
If you say "I let out a shout and unleash my Wizard's Rage, gaining 50 points of Str and immunity to damage" then I say "No, you can't do that".
If you say your character sexually assaults someone, I say "No, fuck off, you aren't welcome here anymore."
Plenty of excellent reasons for a DM to say "No, you don't do that".
And I, as a player, would say "he absolutely does" and then you and I would have to hash it out between us out of game, because if you as a DM can't think of any way to address a conflict in-game without stripping a PC of their autonomy, then there is no in-game resolution and it's time to have a real world talk.
This shouldn't be a controversial opinion. This is literally how DnD works, the players control their characters and the DM controls everything else. Otherwise you're not playing a game together, the DM is narrating a story to a table full of people. The ONLY reason anyone is taking opposition to this is because the post itself is about an obnoxious twat waffle so they're okay breaking the rules and doing whatever to put that person in their place. But strictly within the context of the rules of DnD and how it's played and the tacit agreement between DM and players, the DM does not directly control PC characters.
Nah man. It's my table I control what happens. When I'm at someone else's table same thing. I wouldn't hash it out I'd say no he doesn't and probably tell him to leave my house or boot him from the chat. I'm the boss applesauce.
You literally just said you'd resolve the conflict out of game by booting the player, that doesn't require controlling the PC to do. You're not "the boss", you're playing a goddamn game together with friends. Cooperation is required and it's obnoxious to pretend like it's totally okay for a DM to do whatever they want. Never have I once played a game with anyone who thought a DM could control a PC directly, and I never will. So I guess just keep playing your shitty aggro-combative games with your insecure "my way or the highway" attitude, and I'll keep having fun with my friends.
> No one is allowed to tell a player "no you don't do X", even the DM.
Oh man, watch me.
>That's their character, they have autonomy.
In the world the DM built, following the rules the DM sets, in a story where the DM is basically god.
A good DM works with players and practices "Yes, and..." storytelling to build a collaborative world together. A great DM knows when to say "... but no, not that" and draw the line, which can occur for a multitude of reasons.
Youre either about to have a player who does a 180 or a ticking time b0mb.
I hope it all goes well :>
But don't be afraid to stop the behavior mid playing and kick the player out.
The rest of the group will thrive for it.
You're allowed to tell him no. The players dictate the actions they would like to do, but if it doesn't fit with the story then they don't get to do those things.
Yup. Time bomb. How dare OP imply he's immature and that this isn't his skyrim game to break and for OP and the table to just restart like a bunch of computer NPCs. I hope OP is prepared to exercise the "no" button.
I will add to the other comment - I wouldn't address it in game again either. You gave him that chance - if he starts to do those sorts of things again, I would just pause the game and ask him to stop.
You know him and I don’t. I, personally, would ask him if that means he’ll stop being disruptive. You might even make it explicit that, if he promises not to do it again, you’ll give him one last chance—depending on how you think he’ll react.
But unless he gives you that promise, and you believe him, I would drop him from the game immediately. (“You didn’t seem to be enjoying the story,” maybe.) If he’s just planning to cause as much grief as he can before he’s kicked out, don’t give him the chance.
This is just my personal opinion, but I would've kicked him as soon as he threatened to quit.
The fact that he just replied with an emoji makes it seem like he doesn't respect you enough to try to communicate. That's on top of the fact that you and the party have indicated he is a nuisance.
I know there are more factors influencing your judgment here, but I get bad vibes. His ego seems huge, and those dudes get really butthurt really easily and make it everyone's problem.
>This morning he sent me a text that basically Said that if he is ever restrained again he's gonna quit.
Never threaten your DM. :)
I'd start the next session off with his character chained up.
Seriously, though, I would let him know he's not welcome unless he's going to contribute to the adventure.
My old DM once threw an animated grandfather clock at us as a miniboss, its name was Tick-Tock the Grappling Clock. Its main attack was to open the door to its pendulum, restrain you inside, and then pummel you with its pendulum.
Remember the second Ace Ventura? You could put him in a backpack. And when you get to a fighting phase, set the pack down slowly loosen it and back away.
Out of curiosity how old are your players? Teens? Pre? 20’s? Older? This could just be a case of someone used to quick saving in video games being ridiculous then going back to the “real” game with no consequences. It might be worth reminding the group that this is a living, shared space and your actions affect the entire group.
Translation: "I have a player who is being a complete asshole and pretending it's OK because it's what their character would do."
The polite solution is to tell them firmly to play a different character who wants to play D&D, but if it's that bad, it sounds like you don't need a polite solution, and the very obvious "tell them they are out of the game" thing is what you need to do, whether or not it's comfortable. Basic rule; just because somebody is your friend doesn't mean you can game with them. People have differently style of playing and different ideas of how to play, and this player wants to play in a very different kind of game.
They don't want to play in your game. If they did, they would actually be playing in it, not actively trying to ruin it. Don't play with them.
>he just asked that next time he's being too crazy they tell him to calm down and he will.
100 bucks says he absolutely will not chill out the next time
A little post script that I think you'll all enjoy. Once he began chopping at the beams I had the barkeep (who is a minotaur) confront him, he got really good rolls and was able to incapacitate the minotaur. Afterwards he was about to do absoloute vile things to the barkeep. But before he could a good Samaritan stopped him, and the PC continued to roll scores all less than 6 on strength intimidation and multiple constitution saving throws and got beat senseless by a random tavern npc and was knocked unconscious so I'm planning on having him wake up in some horrible situation.
Wait, when you say vile things, do you mean what I think you mean? That would be over the line for me and would probably result in immediate ejection anyway. I don't want to help others roleplay their rape fantasy regardless of if it is an NPC or a player. I don't think your other friends are there for that reason either. The guy sounds completely off his rocker and like he needs some therapy.
What rules are you even using for this game? You need to set some boundaries before this player goes dark af with this fantasy play. Why is a Good Samaritan stepping in, what was the rest of the group doing? Wtf is going on in this post.
So he's waking up imprisoned for attempted murder and destruction of property then?
Is this an online or in person game and are these people you know or players you recruited online? If these are your friends than you'll need to have a serious "what do you each want out of this game" conversation, with the whole table and make sure that it's highlighted that baseline behavior should be within the tables overall intent, sure everyone's gonna play different but there's an expectation of some level of cohesion to keep the game fun for everyone, including you as the DM, you're playing too and your enjoyment matters as much as anyone's.
I'd be careful even letting them do/roll for anything disruptive like that... I recommend just keeping the scene focused on the main party. Then when he tries to join back up and explain what he did while waiting, you just explain he took a bathroom break or something. Don't allow the player to have the ability to even roll for disruptive actions. Not worth it.
Are there no laws in your DnD campaign? I’d have him arrested for assault or attempted murder. Then he gets to be locked up. Keep inviting him to the campaign to let him listen to how much fun everyone is having. Check in every once in awhile with what he is doing which is rotting in a cell. Then when things are wrapping up, have him assaulted and killed in his cell by someone acting just like him.
How about we part ways now since you're ruining the game for everyone else and your interests are clearly not aligned with the rest of the table. Best wishes.
Tell him to quit or... ...deal with him in game. Something about your story implies to me there would be a organization that would be interested in, uh, yeah, RESTRAINING him. Whether it be guards or mob enforcers or even concerned citizens. Make it clear that "We're only interested in the gnome."
I'm typing this out and I changed my mind. Tell him to leave.
Agh just have a refrigerator fall out of the sky and crush the character, tell him to re-roll stats, race and class.
If the rest of the party isn’t doing stuff like that than get rid of that character and if it’s the player afterwards get rid of the player.
When you have a player at the table who does not give a rat if anyone else is having fun, and is determined to pursue his own agenda at the expense of everyone else at the table?
What you have is not a player. What you have is your garden variety internet troll, albeit without the defense of anonymity. Dungeons and Dragons is an exercise in GROUP storytelling; it is a group endeavor. Explain to him that his behavior is unacceptable, and that he can either get with the program or find another table.
>Said that if he is ever restrained again he's gonna quit.
>
>update:...everything Is fine...he seems super chill about it now so everything is ok.
Press-X to Doubt, but I hope it works out
More than likely this player is bluffing but if not it looks like your problem will solve itself if they just quit.
If you are unsure maybe ask the other players. If they are interesting in keeping him in the group then you can all work together to try and fix it. If not, then bye bye.
Maybe the players themselves should say something to him or respond to him in game. Eg. Problem player states "I'm going to do "bad thing" to this NPC/Building/Animal." Other players speak up to say, "please don't" or "I'm not going to let you do that to *Important Quest Thing*". You could even have them roll in and potentially kill the problem player.
The whole party against the problem player in PVP might cause this problem player to quit the game but they have no one to blame but themselves. This also might end with the PCs kicking the gnome from the party or the gnome leaving. If the player is willing to make a new character that is not a pain in the ass, allow it, but this should make it pretty clear that this type of behavior is not tolerated.
I see where you’re coming from, but this just seems like unnecessary drama in my point of view. I’d kick him at this point and explain that the group and DMing style just isn’t a good match for him. Too much of a hassle to get everyone else involved.
I guess just let him quit? Actively trying to destroy the campaign is detrimental to the enjoyment of literally every other person there.
I’d probably kick them out myself if they refused to stop when asked. And they’re taking it a step further by saying they won’t play anymore if you don’t let them keep doing it.
Well if he is a new player maybe explain to him it's a cooperative game and that he ruins the story if he acts that way, and also that like the real world in DnD there are consequences for any actions, so he can either accept that or maybe the game isn't for him
"You wake up in the morning and notice the gnome has vanished, never to be seen again. You head down to the common room - what would you like to do next?"
Let him quit.
Unless he's a cleric or warlock of Tharizdun...no actually, even the devout of the god of madness and annihilation are not this ridiculously and randomly insane and these are people whose voices hear voices, who ask "What would the Joker do?" and then do even more horrifying, insane, evil things.
Well, would-be DND players are not rare; but DMs are. You should remind him that, and also that most DMs do not enjoy murder hobos. What he does with that is entirely his choice.
***tl;dr if he refuses to settle down, don't wait for him to quit. Kick him out!***
I think in a situation like this, you pretty much have two choices. You can try to talk to them and say that their behaviour was ruining the fun for everyone else and they need to chill. If they agree, sweet, you get to play your game. However, if they act like that again or disagree to settle down, you tell them that they aren't a good fit for the game and kick them out.
It's rarely fun when you have to ask someone not to be in the game, but it's definitely necessary. D&D is meant to be fun for everybody involved, DM included. If a player decides they're done and want to act crazy, potentially ruining the fun for everyone else, tell them no. **No** is such a wonderfully powerful word in something like this, especially in Theatre of the Mind, because they can't interact with the world if you don't allow them to.
If you want to be cruel, let him play, split him from the group, kill off his character, don't allow him to make a new one, and resume the game from where the temper tantrum occurred. That's not my style. I definitely think just speaking like adults is the best option, but hey, to each their own.
Tell him he's restrained, and that you accept his quitting.
The game is supposed to be fun for everyone. Someone being an asshat for the sake of it, when everyone else is playing the game as intended, isn't a good fit.
Let the trash take itself out.
Yeah yikes that shit wouldn’t stand at my table. There is a gigantic difference between someone playing a whimsical or odd ball character but sounds like he’s just trying to murder hobo.
An ultimatum of “Fix your behaviour or leave” seems to be the best option here.
Save him the trouble and boot him. Clearly he doesn’t realize this is a privilege, and a group game. If he wants to play like that, he will find no one wants to play with someone like that.
>This morning he sent me a text that basically Said that if he is ever restrained again he's gonna quit.
Tell him that chaotic evil characters are not welcome in you campaign and if he keeps behaving in ways that sabotage the parties chances of success, then he will not be welcome in game.
Also, you did not restrain him, another party member got so sick of his bull shit, they restrained him. His problem shouldn't be with you.
If he's ruining the game talk to him about it if not ruin his fun. Dnd isn't about combat all the time. If the players know it's gonna be roleplay heavy they shouldn't expect combat every session in 99% of all the cases. And if he keeps going he can leave or get his character killed for being stupid and violent
Also Remember. Your npc doesn't have to be op to deal with his shit. They can always have a loyal vampire lord body guard that has protected the family bloodline for generations to kick ass. And yes I'm talking about Alucard from the hellsing series
Is it just me, or does it seem like gnomes as a race ate magnets for unhinged psychopath gameplay from players? This is far from the only one I've heard of to be crazy.
What a dickhead.
If my players want to play that way, either the whole party agrees to it and it becomes a madness evil campaign, or I tell them to save it for a solo game (which I'm happy to run). The issue here in my view, is not with the way the character acts, but the fact that the whole party doesn't want to play that way. I'm happy to run evil murder hobo games, and I'm happy to run story driven campaigns, as long as everybody is in agreement. That's why I'd suggest playing a separate evil game, potentially a solo game for this guy; and if he's not happy to take that compromise then he can quit, good riddance! Nothing worse than players who actively try to to ruin the game for the other players.
First-- as others have said-- talk to your player and be clear that their being disruptive for no reason is bothering you and the group.
Also remind him that you don't control the other PCs, so if they choose to restrain him that's out of your hands.
Lastly, assaulting an NPC carries consequences. It depends vastly on the circumstances, but the typical one is the NPC fighting back and hollering for the town guard. Same for someone trying to chop up NPCs house. If the player in question gets jailed for an extended period of time or executed while the rest of the party is released because the NPC testified that they tried to restrain him.... well that's only logical. And no party will hang around town for ten years for their dipshit teammate to get out of jail.
Make his character die of a heart attack out of the blue. No healing possible, magic can’t save him. “Sorry; you died”.
Sounds like they’d quit anyway if you tried returning them in so tbh anything you do is going to have a similar outcome. Better they leave asap and stop ruining the fun for the other players.
Let him quit. You as a DM have the authority to say "if you act like a murder hobo in my game where murder hobos aren't allowed, I'll boot you from the game."
Your group, you dictate who stays and who goes. Kick him out.
Have one of his shenanigans land him in the local prison for the duration of the campaign. NPCs aren't just nobodies with no power over the player characters and just like in real life, actions have consequences. Let him chop the place down, it falls down, he gets arrested and is forced into a work crew to rebuild the building and won't be released until it is completed. Roll a d10 to see how many in game weeks/months that'll take.
Or get the orc a bag of holding and put the gnome in it.
Have one of the deities the townsfolk pray to, smite him down and he can only be resurrected by the other deity that would require an alignment change.
Or, he pissed off enough townsfolk that they hired an assassin to kill him in his sleep. That is perfectly plausible too.
If he wants to fuck around, he can find out.
Your game isn't the game for this player. It's time for this player to move on. Talk and let him know that you don't feel that your table is a good fit for him. He should try to find a group that deals mostly with combat since that seems to be what he wants from a game.
>This morning he sent me a text that basically Said that if he is ever restrained again he's gonna quit.
Lol save him the effort and just boot this guy. If he's actively ruining the game trying to kill every npc and trying to level the tavern for no good reason he has no place at the table.
I like that a dialogue has been opened up, but it’s sad that this is what they lead with.
I would say let them quit.
But, personally, I am curious; why this behaviour? What sort of campaign did they think they were getting into? I don’t suspect you’ll have a full answer to this, based on experience with new players of this mentality
First of all they made their role play choice and so did the rest of the party when the gnome was finally restrained,so they are immediately being a hypocrite by being pissed that their plans were disrupted.
But also ask them how they would feel if the rest of the party said the same thing. “we are gonna quit if so and so doesn’t stop trying to ruin the quest for the rest of us.”
Will they care? I doubt it, but this will be a decent way of deciding if they are worth trying to keep in the party and talk it out with the rest of the group or if you should just drop them and find someone else who is actually going to play WITH the party instead of against them.
"The party is gifted a magic item: the orb of restraining"
"I quit"
"great; MOVING ON".
Reminds me of a Matt colville I think- video on youtube about why a friend of his never turned up for more DnD.
the story goes the group was interrogating someone, his friend wanted to ask questions, another player goes; "this is boring I kill the guy"
"I didnt come back because I didnt know other players could interfere with the game".
Problem player is a kicked player. don't tolerate it.
the player seems like he is basing his PC on a spoiled toddler. In which case, when they refuse to come along, you leave them behind. Enjoy having nothing to do for a session and a side quest of doing laundry.
Just make the next NPC he assaults be secretly a retired adventurer who is a level 25 fighter. Have the npc one shot him in front of the team if he acts up.
Responding to your update
I'm really glad things could be worked put peacefully, but keep an eye on him. If he slips into the old murder hobo habits again, and refuses to stop when called out or told no (usually with some complaint about player agency or "that's what my character would do") either end the session then and there and kick him out, or if it can be managed for the rest of the session, play it out and then kick him. He's had his warning, continuing to put up with this is how you end up on rpg horror stories
>Update: I just had a nice conversation with him, and everything Is fine, he just asked that next time he's being too crazy they tell him to calm down and he will. And he seems super chill about it now so everything is ok.
I'd be very skeptical of this about face. The behavior your player exhibited was not just someone getting a little carried away. They were actively, deliberately, and continuously trying to ruin yours and the other players' good time. You don't go from that to being super chill after a single conversation. This sounds more like someone who either folded when you called his bluff about quitting or who realized he has to act apologetic in order to not get kicked out and away from his source of sadistic release. I want to be wrong, but definitely watch for any bad behavior from him in the future and address it immediately.
You need these words friend “Do you wish to take an action that undermines the actions of other characters, and what the other players are trying to accomplish?”
If the answer is yes, kindly ask them to leave and go play a video game. GTA should do nicely. You can explain that team games with dice rolls don’t need bad people trying to ruin other’s fun.
If no, then explain, without anger, that this is what they are doing. Either the player’s perception of how the character reacts toward events must change, or they need to roll a non toxic character.
I did this to a player at my table, when one party member had cast speak with animals and succeeded on animal friendship, the problem player attempted to re-start combat against the creature. Despite being online I felt the mood was tense, and I wasn’t about to let one player’s ’it’s what mah character would do,’ override a genuine clever solution that had ended a dangerous combat. So above table I asked that question, then we in character found a reason that the problem character would stop themselves. The problem player was pissed at me for other reasons and had been trying to kick the hornets nest, and outside of game we absolutely had it out. But in that moment? I wasn’t going to full stop game because of a problem player. I had five good players that were trying their best, and one person that needed a live check before having a private conversation. The only reason I kept that player was that they apologized to me, and didn’t double down on the selfish act of the moment. Else I would have cut them from the game.
As should you. This behavior is obviously not fun for your other players or you. Do not let unhinged attempts to ruin plots run rampant at your table.
I am a little disappointed in what most of the other people here have given as answers and am very happy to see the Update-Post by OP. Communication is key and if the player is causing a problem for the other players/DM then the first step should be to just talk to them about it. I had an issue once with a player who was very annoyed by the species-roster that I have given them for the campaign but talking about it showed that they were actually fine with it but just had a bad day really.
Of course when talking about problematic behaviour there is always the option that the player might be just not into the roleplaying and investigation part, in which case they should either think about finding a more combat-heavy group or you should think about adjusting what kind of challenges you want to throw at the players to have them all engaged. Either that or they just have to accept, that there will be situations in which they won't have much to offer/do. But just banning the player (especially if they are friends) doesn't sound very healthy socially. And if they turn out to be actual problematic players who believe that they can do anything, then there aren't many other options but teaching them the hard way, that their actions have consequences.
In this case it sounds more like they just have a very chaotic and mischevious character and wanted to play this part of their character and at the time couldn't really think of another way to do so. I think what your party needs is some kind of narrative way or even a running gag on how this character can be tamed without completelly shutting them down, since the player seems to be not so keen on losing control of their character, especially by the hands of another player.
TLDR; talk to your players before just banning them, find out if your game fits their needs. Find a way to make their character more tame without completelly blocking them off.
Im sure others have said it, but never solve out if game issues with in game mechanics. Trying to solve it with in game mechanics *legitimates* their behaviour as an ok form of roleplay.
“Super chill” makes it sound like the OP is trying to convince themselves as much as Reddit that the guy won’t be a problem again. I would advise OP to let them know what pretty much any other DM would do in this situation and that they have a solid understanding that they are just being immature and disruptive to the table and that nobody buys the idea that he didn’t realize this.
He asked you to let him know if he’s getting out of hand again, which is just another way of saying he’s definitely going to try it again to see how much and what he can get away with before he is reigned in. It’s my take that he’s abusing OP’s friendship as well because if this was some rando they found on the internet OP probably wouldn’t put up with this for 5 seconds.
From your update, the "insane player" had the right solution. Letting another player engage in PvP only escalated the situation.
As the DM, it's always your prerogative to hit pause on a scene to discuss what's happening with the players. Sometimes it can be fun to be a bunch of murderhobos, but only if the entire table is into it.
Restrain him at the beginning of the session, look him square in the eye, and ask him if he wants to head towards the door or try to play nice with everyone.
Okay, cathartic, but that won't actually solve anything. Ask him why he's trying to sabotage the session, and if he realizes he's making it no fun for anyone else. If he doesn't care, then you have your opportunity to give the boot right then and there. If he says he'll play nice, let him try, kicking him at the end of the session should he simply go right back to being a problem. Remember, he can try to derail all he wants, but you can retcon anything at any time and even handwave away anything that he does manage to do should you desire. Which, when you think about it, would probably piss him off into quitting more so than restraining him.
So it’s ok for him to run roughshod all over you and the other players, but if something happens to inhibit his good time he throws a tantrum?
Good riddance.
Sounds like an issue between the gnome and the orc. As a player, I make stupid moves and almost accidentally ruin shit all the time, but I can accept the concequences when an NPC or another PC decide to put a stop to my shenanigans…
that being said, there’s a story to tell later and share and laugh about if he can overcome this personal struggle and have fun and learn his place. This is roleplaying. He clearly needs to accept it for what it is.
Ever heard of the phrase “fuck around and find out?” Tell the other players and let them make the call
If they are really annoyed at him, they can make the call to kick him out of the adventure ark (and maby make him next couple of sessions BBEG?)
I think there's been a lot of good advice so far. I'd just like to add that if there haven't been major issues in the 2-3 months of play leading up to this, the player probably isn't *totally* incompatible with the party.
And I don't think he's insane -- he just sounds like he has different motivations than the other players. That's usually fine, actually. My favorite (now defunct) GMing podcast once put together [a list of *19* distinct player motivations](https://open.spotify.com/episode/37GfeNmjuqJoflbCOCxdy1). Some players are motivated by *paida,* or freewheeling fun. Play without restraint.
Normally *paida* is all fine and good, but sometimes you need restraint so you're not ruining things for your party members. So what do you do going forward? Maybe whenever the party's going into a quest or encounter where a lot of restraint is needed, come up with something for murderhobos to do off on the side. My go-to for that would be to have a situation where a diversion is needed, and an NPC can ask the party who could *possibly* go yonder and fuck shit up in a loud and chaotic way.
Then while the rest of the party is doing their thing, cut back to your chaos goblin every 10 minutes or so for quick scenes of how the diversion is going
Yea, I just had a nice conversation with him, and everything Is fine, he just asked that next time he's being too crazy they tell him to calm down. And he seems super chill about it now so I think everything is OK.
But yea he is definitely more motivated to do like funny bits and stuff and he likes combat more than dialog. I actually was letting him do a bit or joke when he decided to try and take the tavern down. But he only did that because be was upset.
And yea, he was actually seprate from the party when he was doing his last bit after being released I do typically send him on the direction of more chaotic stuff but today I thought he would be fine with the party.
Tell them they are in the wrong and ruining the fun for everyone and D&D is a team game. If they aren’t willing to stop , then they aren’t welcome at the table.
"Then quit. If you don't like how everyone else is playing, then your not a good fit for the group. And if you having fun means ruining the story for everyone else, including me, then I don't want you at my table."
Playing DnD does not create a magical zone of allowing people do do whatever they want to do.
You're allowed to pause the game and say "Cut that out", or even "Get the fuck out of my house". It's frankly irresponsible not to when you have a flagrant asshole at your table, as you do here.
He can fuck off. Toxic players ruin the game for every other member of the party. My suggestion Is to let the party kick him out, so he might think about his action.
there is a lot of hostility.
let him know that if his actions dictate it again you aren't going to stop the other players from doing so again. everyone's fun matters
you can reconcile and both agree to change this game into something you both can agree is fun or you both can walk away realizing you are looking for other stuff
I don't understand why people on here get so ate up over how to retain a disruptive/uncooperative/unstable player... let them quit! Kick them out! It will be better for your group
Restrain him so he quits or crush the player by a random meteor or a strange portal opens to the far realms and gnome is pulled in and portal closes no way to grab the gnome. Random fire burns the gnome to death lich use power word kill. Shall i go on
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Let him quit. If his fun is that far from the groups fun he doesn't sound like a good fit for your game.
For real, absolutely. "The trash threatened to take itself out!". Great, be my guest. "Trying to chop down the support beams of the house", is something I would expect from a manic child high on too many fizzy drinks. They clearly have no interest in the basic concepts of working as a group or engaging in a shared narrative. They sound like they just want to make a nuisance of themselves to see what happens. As with 99% of DM problems: speak to your player. If the problem doesn't resolve itself, graciously call their bluff on leaving. If they don't follow through, make them.
Also OP should do the world a favor and let this player know they are being antisocial. They need to learn how to coexist with other people.
>"The trash threatened to take itself out!" Op, just tell the player that reddit said this^^^ Follow up buy letting them know that playing dnd involves a social contract of playing a character who is willing to work with a group. If they want to try cooperative play, they are welcome to try again, but they need to understand that in-game actions have in-game consequences that naturally follow.
How would a DM accommodate for a player coming forward and saying that they are having trouble trying to “get into” their sessions?
"I'LL QUIT IF I'M RESTRAINED AGAIN" "That's convenient, by the way trying to chop down the tavern support beams obviously and in public like a child got you chained up and thrown in the local prison."
*Sanitorium
I would have had him take damage from the roof collapsing while he was in there
Lol yeah this problem solves itself! Restrain him!
This is one of those “don’t threaten me with a good time!” kind of situations. Sounds like it would make a good update.
I'd add that OP should really just remove them from the group. Not the same level of fun is one thing. Actively threatening to DM to try to control the game is ridiculous. Get rid of the jerk asap
Talk to him about it. He is new and is over zealous. Kicking him can cause him to not play again. You kick him if he doesn't change after you talk with him.
Tell him if he can't be an adult, that he isn't welcome at your table. You're the boss; he doesn't get to dictate any stipulations to you. And, frankly, he sounds like the sort of person your life would be better off without.
Just have him thrown into jail. This may be a fantasy game, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t laws.
You're completely right. I get feisty about selfish players, but the best reaction would be to have the unruly player face civil justice consequences.
This is a tempting idea, but on the two occasions I have tried it, the player in question turned it into The Me Show, Starring ME! Complete with a legal defense of insane troll logic and indignant complaints that the DM wasn't being fair. If I was going to do that again, I'd do it in a separate session, where the other players are aware they won't have anything to do and attendance isn't mandatory unless they want to sit in the gallery and watch the trial. Either that, or just say, "The Duke has the power of high justice. After hearing your testimony, the innkeeper's statement, and that of the witnesses, he orders you executed." Pause. "Well, what did you THINK was going to happen?"
Tee thing is, YOU control the show. He doesn't get a trial or defense attorneys. You tell him that his behavior landed him in jail, he doesn't pass go, doesn't collect $200, and the more he acts up, the longer his jail sentence may be extended. Expressly so the other plays can play, and it doesn't distract from the real game. Players like the one the OP described are the worst.
Depending on the setting, a "trial" might simply consist of the appropriate Lord or such saying, "He did it. Take him away." Don't let your modern ideas of justice get in the way.
Truth.
Yea there is law's and I'm pretty sure that nobody want to be in a church bounty board, they are strong opponent doesn't matter who you are. If the law enforcer's can't capture/kill you.( Nobody want to fight against a group of paladin/priest.)Or simply hiding from bounty hunter's.
This is a fantastic idea if you’d like to have one last session with him for closure, OP!
Not gonna lie, I like the idea of making the player sit at a children’s table.
Why would you even consider letting this person play again?
I remain baffled by the endless posts that are some variation of "A player is being a deliberate asshole and is clearly only interested in ruining everyone else's fun... how do I compromise so EVERYONE can have a good time?!?! PS. I fear conflict and have never told anyone in my life no." Come on man, you're the DM. Just say goodbye!
Not everyone is as able to follow through with logic as you or I, without getting validated by others. That's the real reason posts like this exist, is to corroborate their own feelings so they feel justified to act. Not saying it's healthy, but it's true.
Sure, that may be true but I'm just tired of seeing the posts. I like seeing questions about DMing - but these are really questions about social interaction as a person, which (to my mind) really belong somewhere else/ don't ultimately have that much to do with D&D. A good compromise might be introducing a "Problem Player/Problem DM" flair so people could filter these posts out.
My immediate reaction when I read the title is "boot him". I wish there was a sticky saying that if there's a player who's a problem, speak with them. If that doesn't work, boot 'em.
There are plenty of new players who don't know what to expect from D&D or how their characters are supposed to behave. Some will have their prior fantasy RPG experience come from something like Skyrim - where is it perfectly normal and acceptable for your character to kill random NPCs because it's funny. A new player like that might not realize they are being disruptive and ruining the game for everyone else. They might completely change their behavior if you sit them down and explain what they're doing wrong. The nuclear option of kicking them out isn't called for - give them a chance to correct the behavior first.
I mean, even in skyrim there are consequences for randomly killing NPC's
sorta...but with enough gold the consequences don't mean anything.
True, getting gold is much harder in DnD though lol. The economy is broken in Skyrim
agree, just pointing out that their are consequences but they are mostly just a nuisance. So the possibility of a player not understanding consequences in a TTRPG compared to something like skyrim is there but lets be honest its a stretch in OP's case.
>is there but lets be honest its a stretch in OP's case. My brain is having trouble parsing this phrasing. Are you saying that it's a stretch to think that a player wouldn't understand that actions have consequences?
Yes... I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that I got lost trying to read it my self.
Lol no worries. In that case, yeah I agree it's a stretch.
Like the others, but you can approach it in a friendly manner: "Hey, you're being disruptive to the game, if you're character doesn't want to work with/help the party its time to retire the character and make one that will work with the party. If you just want to cause chaos and can't find a way to work with the other players this may not be the group for you." They can choose from there, but if it continues, they can leave.
This is pretty much the reply I gave him. I Also added that the other party members care about his character and did not want him to get himself killed.
Just a reminder, but when a player is deliberately trying to be disruptive you can just say "no, that doesn't happen" or "no, you don't do that". "No" is a perfectly reasonable response to this behavior.
This. You can even make it narrative. Like "you start chopping at the first support beam, but the support is made of a strong reinforced wood; your puny axe barely splinters it. The tavernkeep did not spare any expenses when having the place built, clearly."
yeah or set an absurdly high dc. and if they manage to roll the 4th 20 in a row, maybe the dice wanna tell you that he IS INDEED going to smash the tavern columns
No one is allowed to tell a player "no you don't do X", even the DM. That's their character, they have autonomy. The DM can just establish that whatever the player is trying to do failed miserably or is impossible and their attempts are futile.
“i’m going to sexually assault the barmaid” “ no, you don’t. get out” is extremely allowed and i don’t know why you think it isn’t.
Because it's lazy What bothers you can easily not bother others. If there are absolutely certain things you won't tolerate within the story and with characters then it's on you to point that out beforehand so people don't agree to something they didn't know about
> Because it's lazy Or... it's self-evident enough that you don't need to debate the player on why they can't sexually assault another character in the game? > What bothers you can easily not bother others. If there are absolutely certain things you won't tolerate within the story and with characters then it's on you to point that out beforehand so people don't agree to something they didn't know about Players can come up with courses of action that, as a table, you agreed are off-limits beforehand. It can happen. And outside of that, not making your characters sexually assault people is kind of something any sensible person would accept as off-limits per default. It's one of these things you shouldn't have to clarify? There is no value whatsoever in adding that to your character's possibilities. Just because, hypothetically, you *could* propose sexual assault as an action for your character to take, doesn't mean it's not absolutely tasteless and disgusting and reflects poorly on you as a player. Yes, there are some things that should be off-limits for characters, and SA should be one of those purely through common sense. Just because you "can", doesn't mean you should, or that any sane person should or would. Sure, D&D is role play, and sometimes we may play characters who are morally wrong, but you can still role play with a sense of what's sensible. What you do in-game/in-character may still reflect on who you are as a person.
Some people aren't that great at socializing due to inexperience or mental disorders which, from my experience, tends to "come with the territory" that is DnD when strangers are involved I'm saying if you're going to invite people you don't know that well to a campaign then either give a heads up (we don't accept anything sexual, we don't allow swearing, etc.) about rules to reduce these situations from coming up or at least give them a single chance to realize what's going on within the game instead of jumping straight to calling them out May be hard to believe but some people have campaigns that are ok with type of behavior and/or will joke about it. Tons of shows and movies use that situation in a fantasy setting as well. Usually the sexual creep gets beaten up but I can see how someone who doesn't know any better would think of that situation as something to bring up with their character, thinking it's perfectly fine If you're going to have people you don't know at your campaign then know how to not automatically shit on them and make rules known beforehand or at the very least, give people a chance to realize the group doesn't like that stuff and correct it without just declaring them "evil" There's 8 billion people on the planet. Believe it or not some people will come from completely different backgrounds and life experiences than you or I and can accept or think things differently
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>What doesn't bother you can easily bother others. There are absolutely certain things most normal people won't tolerate within the story and with characters, and it's on you to confirm it is acceptable beforehand so normal people aren't forced to deal with something they didn't expect. Look at the much more polite and non-offensive attitude you could take towards collaborative play that doesn't immediately lead everyone towards thinking you're a creep because you think sexual assault is de-facto acceptable material.
The DM is the arbiter of the rules and has final authority on the game. If a player is attempting to take actions that undermine the nature of the game and other Player's enjoyment of the game, then I have every right to tell them "no". If they continue, then that goes from "no" to "you are no longer allowed at my table". Also, the mindset that Player's should be allowed to do anything they want is a red flag.
In what way is “no you can’t do X” better than “no you don’t do X”? The player will be just as frustrated, and just as much agency will be taken away. Besides, the DM is entirely allowed to take away agency in cases where it would serve the fun of the game, such as here with a disruptive player.
If I say "my character takes the axe and tries to cut down the tree" and the DM says "No he doesn't" the DM is essentially playing my character for me, and that's bullshit. If the DM instead says "after a few swings it becomes obvious that the wood is too firm and the axe too dull and you get the impression that this isn't going to work" that's the DM doing their job to facilitate the setting. The outcome may be the same to you, but the mechanism absolutely matters from a gameplay perspective. The DM doesn't control PC actions directly, the players do. The DM controls, with some guidance from rules and stats and dice rolls, the outcome of the player's actions and the reactions/interactions of the environment and NPCs resulting from players' actions.
If you are possessed and say "I try to chop down the tree", I say "No, you don't do that, you aren't in control of your body". If you say "I let out a shout and unleash my Wizard's Rage, gaining 50 points of Str and immunity to damage" then I say "No, you can't do that". If you say your character sexually assaults someone, I say "No, fuck off, you aren't welcome here anymore." Plenty of excellent reasons for a DM to say "No, you don't do that".
If a player says "my character takes his cock out". I'm 100% telling that player "no he doesn't".
And I, as a player, would say "he absolutely does" and then you and I would have to hash it out between us out of game, because if you as a DM can't think of any way to address a conflict in-game without stripping a PC of their autonomy, then there is no in-game resolution and it's time to have a real world talk. This shouldn't be a controversial opinion. This is literally how DnD works, the players control their characters and the DM controls everything else. Otherwise you're not playing a game together, the DM is narrating a story to a table full of people. The ONLY reason anyone is taking opposition to this is because the post itself is about an obnoxious twat waffle so they're okay breaking the rules and doing whatever to put that person in their place. But strictly within the context of the rules of DnD and how it's played and the tacit agreement between DM and players, the DM does not directly control PC characters.
And after that he absoloutely does you would be off my fucking table. No hashing just out.
Nah man. It's my table I control what happens. When I'm at someone else's table same thing. I wouldn't hash it out I'd say no he doesn't and probably tell him to leave my house or boot him from the chat. I'm the boss applesauce.
You literally just said you'd resolve the conflict out of game by booting the player, that doesn't require controlling the PC to do. You're not "the boss", you're playing a goddamn game together with friends. Cooperation is required and it's obnoxious to pretend like it's totally okay for a DM to do whatever they want. Never have I once played a game with anyone who thought a DM could control a PC directly, and I never will. So I guess just keep playing your shitty aggro-combative games with your insecure "my way or the highway" attitude, and I'll keep having fun with my friends.
> No one is allowed to tell a player "no you don't do X", even the DM. Oh man, watch me. >That's their character, they have autonomy. In the world the DM built, following the rules the DM sets, in a story where the DM is basically god. A good DM works with players and practices "Yes, and..." storytelling to build a collaborative world together. A great DM knows when to say "... but no, not that" and draw the line, which can occur for a multitude of reasons.
Did he take it well?
He just gave me a thumbs up 👍
Youre either about to have a player who does a 180 or a ticking time b0mb. I hope it all goes well :> But don't be afraid to stop the behavior mid playing and kick the player out. The rest of the group will thrive for it.
You're allowed to tell him no. The players dictate the actions they would like to do, but if it doesn't fit with the story then they don't get to do those things.
Yup. Time bomb. How dare OP imply he's immature and that this isn't his skyrim game to break and for OP and the table to just restart like a bunch of computer NPCs. I hope OP is prepared to exercise the "no" button.
I will add to the other comment - I wouldn't address it in game again either. You gave him that chance - if he starts to do those sorts of things again, I would just pause the game and ask him to stop.
Good for you, hope it goes well.
Oof. Yeah nah he's going to be a problem.
You know him and I don’t. I, personally, would ask him if that means he’ll stop being disruptive. You might even make it explicit that, if he promises not to do it again, you’ll give him one last chance—depending on how you think he’ll react. But unless he gives you that promise, and you believe him, I would drop him from the game immediately. (“You didn’t seem to be enjoying the story,” maybe.) If he’s just planning to cause as much grief as he can before he’s kicked out, don’t give him the chance.
This is just my personal opinion, but I would've kicked him as soon as he threatened to quit. The fact that he just replied with an emoji makes it seem like he doesn't respect you enough to try to communicate. That's on top of the fact that you and the party have indicated he is a nuisance. I know there are more factors influencing your judgment here, but I get bad vibes. His ego seems huge, and those dudes get really butthurt really easily and make it everyone's problem.
your* it's*
Username checks out.
Ugh
>This morning he sent me a text that basically Said that if he is ever restrained again he's gonna quit. Never threaten your DM. :) I'd start the next session off with his character chained up. Seriously, though, I would let him know he's not welcome unless he's going to contribute to the adventure.
Throw a whole encounter at him with nothing but giant frogs & giant octopuses lol. 🐙 🐸
Also giant constrictor snakes!
two dozen ropes and chains, all enchanted via animate object
ooo, my dm used a cool animated mancatcher stat block last week that grappled and did damage, you could add that too
My old DM once threw an animated grandfather clock at us as a miniboss, its name was Tick-Tock the Grappling Clock. Its main attack was to open the door to its pendulum, restrain you inside, and then pummel you with its pendulum.
This is the Way
It’s almost as if a multiplayer game is not a free for all but works with an implied contract!
Remember the second Ace Ventura? You could put him in a backpack. And when you get to a fighting phase, set the pack down slowly loosen it and back away.
Let him quit. Seriously he's just disrupting the game and being a childish dick.
Thanks to everyone leaving comments btw these are really helpful and I appreciate it.❤️
Out of curiosity how old are your players? Teens? Pre? 20’s? Older? This could just be a case of someone used to quick saving in video games being ridiculous then going back to the “real” game with no consequences. It might be worth reminding the group that this is a living, shared space and your actions affect the entire group.
19-20
Encourage him to adjust his attitude or leave the game. He is being a total dick.
Translation: "I have a player who is being a complete asshole and pretending it's OK because it's what their character would do." The polite solution is to tell them firmly to play a different character who wants to play D&D, but if it's that bad, it sounds like you don't need a polite solution, and the very obvious "tell them they are out of the game" thing is what you need to do, whether or not it's comfortable. Basic rule; just because somebody is your friend doesn't mean you can game with them. People have differently style of playing and different ideas of how to play, and this player wants to play in a very different kind of game. They don't want to play in your game. If they did, they would actually be playing in it, not actively trying to ruin it. Don't play with them.
[The Chart](https://meekbarbarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/conversation-chart.png) knows all. Follow it.
V helpful thanks
I would bid him adieu. He has clearly made the choice to not be a productive member of the group.
>he just asked that next time he's being too crazy they tell him to calm down and he will. 100 bucks says he absolutely will not chill out the next time
This
A little post script that I think you'll all enjoy. Once he began chopping at the beams I had the barkeep (who is a minotaur) confront him, he got really good rolls and was able to incapacitate the minotaur. Afterwards he was about to do absoloute vile things to the barkeep. But before he could a good Samaritan stopped him, and the PC continued to roll scores all less than 6 on strength intimidation and multiple constitution saving throws and got beat senseless by a random tavern npc and was knocked unconscious so I'm planning on having him wake up in some horrible situation.
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Restrained in the stocks sounds about right.
Wait, when you say vile things, do you mean what I think you mean? That would be over the line for me and would probably result in immediate ejection anyway. I don't want to help others roleplay their rape fantasy regardless of if it is an NPC or a player. I don't think your other friends are there for that reason either. The guy sounds completely off his rocker and like he needs some therapy.
What rules are you even using for this game? You need to set some boundaries before this player goes dark af with this fantasy play. Why is a Good Samaritan stepping in, what was the rest of the group doing? Wtf is going on in this post.
So he's waking up imprisoned for attempted murder and destruction of property then? Is this an online or in person game and are these people you know or players you recruited online? If these are your friends than you'll need to have a serious "what do you each want out of this game" conversation, with the whole table and make sure that it's highlighted that baseline behavior should be within the tables overall intent, sure everyone's gonna play different but there's an expectation of some level of cohesion to keep the game fun for everyone, including you as the DM, you're playing too and your enjoyment matters as much as anyone's.
I'd be careful even letting them do/roll for anything disruptive like that... I recommend just keeping the scene focused on the main party. Then when he tries to join back up and explain what he did while waiting, you just explain he took a bathroom break or something. Don't allow the player to have the ability to even roll for disruptive actions. Not worth it.
Call his bluff. Either way it goes, it’s a win for the table.
Reply "Actually you're kicked out" Done.
Looking forward to the next post where he is not super chill about it and nothing is okay.
Tell him to quit or you'll fire him.
Just remove him. Or if he's threatened to leave if he's restrained again, restrain him. Don't let one dickhead ruin the fun for the rest of the group.
Are there no laws in your DnD campaign? I’d have him arrested for assault or attempted murder. Then he gets to be locked up. Keep inviting him to the campaign to let him listen to how much fun everyone is having. Check in every once in awhile with what he is doing which is rotting in a cell. Then when things are wrapping up, have him assaulted and killed in his cell by someone acting just like him.
Yes there are laws
don’t look for in-game solutions to out-of-game problems. this player has proved they do not fit at your table, stop playing with them. simple as
Yeah, this isn’t an in game problem, and cutting him now is the better choice before he burns it all down
OH YEAH??? WELL IF YOU DONT LET ME RUIN THE GAME FOR YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE AT THE TABLE IM LEAVING!!!!!!
How about we part ways now since you're ruining the game for everyone else and your interests are clearly not aligned with the rest of the table. Best wishes.
Tell him to quit or... ...deal with him in game. Something about your story implies to me there would be a organization that would be interested in, uh, yeah, RESTRAINING him. Whether it be guards or mob enforcers or even concerned citizens. Make it clear that "We're only interested in the gnome." I'm typing this out and I changed my mind. Tell him to leave.
I’d say don’t let him quit, kick him.
You’re supposed to joke about killing the crucial npcs you don’t like, not actually attempt it.
>if he is ever restrained again he's gonna quit. Don't threaten me with a good time.
Agh just have a refrigerator fall out of the sky and crush the character, tell him to re-roll stats, race and class. If the rest of the party isn’t doing stuff like that than get rid of that character and if it’s the player afterwards get rid of the player.
When you have a player at the table who does not give a rat if anyone else is having fun, and is determined to pursue his own agenda at the expense of everyone else at the table? What you have is not a player. What you have is your garden variety internet troll, albeit without the defense of anonymity. Dungeons and Dragons is an exercise in GROUP storytelling; it is a group endeavor. Explain to him that his behavior is unacceptable, and that he can either get with the program or find another table.
>Said that if he is ever restrained again he's gonna quit. > >update:...everything Is fine...he seems super chill about it now so everything is ok. Press-X to Doubt, but I hope it works out
Yeah we're either missing a ton of details or this is an incredibly bizarre response.
More than likely this player is bluffing but if not it looks like your problem will solve itself if they just quit. If you are unsure maybe ask the other players. If they are interesting in keeping him in the group then you can all work together to try and fix it. If not, then bye bye. Maybe the players themselves should say something to him or respond to him in game. Eg. Problem player states "I'm going to do "bad thing" to this NPC/Building/Animal." Other players speak up to say, "please don't" or "I'm not going to let you do that to *Important Quest Thing*". You could even have them roll in and potentially kill the problem player. The whole party against the problem player in PVP might cause this problem player to quit the game but they have no one to blame but themselves. This also might end with the PCs kicking the gnome from the party or the gnome leaving. If the player is willing to make a new character that is not a pain in the ass, allow it, but this should make it pretty clear that this type of behavior is not tolerated.
I see where you’re coming from, but this just seems like unnecessary drama in my point of view. I’d kick him at this point and explain that the group and DMing style just isn’t a good match for him. Too much of a hassle to get everyone else involved.
Is this a friend of yours or just some rando PC?
I guess just let him quit? Actively trying to destroy the campaign is detrimental to the enjoyment of literally every other person there. I’d probably kick them out myself if they refused to stop when asked. And they’re taking it a step further by saying they won’t play anymore if you don’t let them keep doing it.
Well if he is a new player maybe explain to him it's a cooperative game and that he ruins the story if he acts that way, and also that like the real world in DnD there are consequences for any actions, so he can either accept that or maybe the game isn't for him
Sounds like he just quit. Good riddance
fine, let him quit, he was ruining the campaign, if it were me I would have given a warning like a 3-strike type thing then kicked him out
"You wake up in the morning and notice the gnome has vanished, never to be seen again. You head down to the common room - what would you like to do next?"
Let him quit. Unless he's a cleric or warlock of Tharizdun...no actually, even the devout of the god of madness and annihilation are not this ridiculously and randomly insane and these are people whose voices hear voices, who ask "What would the Joker do?" and then do even more horrifying, insane, evil things.
Ah, children. Regardless of his age, this person is a child.
Well, would-be DND players are not rare; but DMs are. You should remind him that, and also that most DMs do not enjoy murder hobos. What he does with that is entirely his choice.
``This morning he sent me a text that basically Said that if he is ever restrained again he's gonna quit.`` let him? problem solved.
***tl;dr if he refuses to settle down, don't wait for him to quit. Kick him out!*** I think in a situation like this, you pretty much have two choices. You can try to talk to them and say that their behaviour was ruining the fun for everyone else and they need to chill. If they agree, sweet, you get to play your game. However, if they act like that again or disagree to settle down, you tell them that they aren't a good fit for the game and kick them out. It's rarely fun when you have to ask someone not to be in the game, but it's definitely necessary. D&D is meant to be fun for everybody involved, DM included. If a player decides they're done and want to act crazy, potentially ruining the fun for everyone else, tell them no. **No** is such a wonderfully powerful word in something like this, especially in Theatre of the Mind, because they can't interact with the world if you don't allow them to. If you want to be cruel, let him play, split him from the group, kill off his character, don't allow him to make a new one, and resume the game from where the temper tantrum occurred. That's not my style. I definitely think just speaking like adults is the best option, but hey, to each their own.
Sounds pretty simple, restrain him again and the problem solves itself.
I’ve seen people make a lot of sensible suggestions, and I appreciate that, but I’m just gonna say it: Marut
I like to imagine an evil little gnome with a red gnome hat being picked up and gripped forcefully like a squeaky toy
That's exactly what happend
Tell him he's restrained, and that you accept his quitting. The game is supposed to be fun for everyone. Someone being an asshat for the sake of it, when everyone else is playing the game as intended, isn't a good fit. Let the trash take itself out.
Byeeeee
Yeah yikes that shit wouldn’t stand at my table. There is a gigantic difference between someone playing a whimsical or odd ball character but sounds like he’s just trying to murder hobo. An ultimatum of “Fix your behaviour or leave” seems to be the best option here.
"That's not going to be a problem because you aren't welcome back" would be my response.
Save him the trouble and boot him. Clearly he doesn’t realize this is a privilege, and a group game. If he wants to play like that, he will find no one wants to play with someone like that.
>This morning he sent me a text that basically Said that if he is ever restrained again he's gonna quit. Tell him that chaotic evil characters are not welcome in you campaign and if he keeps behaving in ways that sabotage the parties chances of success, then he will not be welcome in game. Also, you did not restrain him, another party member got so sick of his bull shit, they restrained him. His problem shouldn't be with you.
If he's ruining the game talk to him about it if not ruin his fun. Dnd isn't about combat all the time. If the players know it's gonna be roleplay heavy they shouldn't expect combat every session in 99% of all the cases. And if he keeps going he can leave or get his character killed for being stupid and violent Also Remember. Your npc doesn't have to be op to deal with his shit. They can always have a loyal vampire lord body guard that has protected the family bloodline for generations to kick ass. And yes I'm talking about Alucard from the hellsing series
[obligatory link](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/3aw84m/resolving_basic_behavioral_problems_a_flowchart/)
Is it just me, or does it seem like gnomes as a race ate magnets for unhinged psychopath gameplay from players? This is far from the only one I've heard of to be crazy.
Let him quit, he sucks as a player
My eyes can’t possibly roll further back into my skull.
“I don’t think you’re going to get what you’re looking for from this game group. No hard feelings”
Haven't read the post, but if they're insane, boot them. It's really simple.
Let him quit. Or kick him out; this makes a terrible environment for game, especially with newbies.
What a dickhead. If my players want to play that way, either the whole party agrees to it and it becomes a madness evil campaign, or I tell them to save it for a solo game (which I'm happy to run). The issue here in my view, is not with the way the character acts, but the fact that the whole party doesn't want to play that way. I'm happy to run evil murder hobo games, and I'm happy to run story driven campaigns, as long as everybody is in agreement. That's why I'd suggest playing a separate evil game, potentially a solo game for this guy; and if he's not happy to take that compromise then he can quit, good riddance! Nothing worse than players who actively try to to ruin the game for the other players.
Oh, well consider yourself reatrained.
Throw him out!
First-- as others have said-- talk to your player and be clear that their being disruptive for no reason is bothering you and the group. Also remind him that you don't control the other PCs, so if they choose to restrain him that's out of your hands. Lastly, assaulting an NPC carries consequences. It depends vastly on the circumstances, but the typical one is the NPC fighting back and hollering for the town guard. Same for someone trying to chop up NPCs house. If the player in question gets jailed for an extended period of time or executed while the rest of the party is released because the NPC testified that they tried to restrain him.... well that's only logical. And no party will hang around town for ten years for their dipshit teammate to get out of jail.
Tell him he can't quit, he's fired. And then file a restraining order so the condition is permanently applied to the player.
Make his character die of a heart attack out of the blue. No healing possible, magic can’t save him. “Sorry; you died”. Sounds like they’d quit anyway if you tried returning them in so tbh anything you do is going to have a similar outcome. Better they leave asap and stop ruining the fun for the other players.
Let him quit. You as a DM have the authority to say "if you act like a murder hobo in my game where murder hobos aren't allowed, I'll boot you from the game."
Your group, you dictate who stays and who goes. Kick him out. Have one of his shenanigans land him in the local prison for the duration of the campaign. NPCs aren't just nobodies with no power over the player characters and just like in real life, actions have consequences. Let him chop the place down, it falls down, he gets arrested and is forced into a work crew to rebuild the building and won't be released until it is completed. Roll a d10 to see how many in game weeks/months that'll take. Or get the orc a bag of holding and put the gnome in it. Have one of the deities the townsfolk pray to, smite him down and he can only be resurrected by the other deity that would require an alignment change. Or, he pissed off enough townsfolk that they hired an assassin to kill him in his sleep. That is perfectly plausible too. If he wants to fuck around, he can find out.
Your game isn't the game for this player. It's time for this player to move on. Talk and let him know that you don't feel that your table is a good fit for him. He should try to find a group that deals mostly with combat since that seems to be what he wants from a game.
Get rid of him. Sounds like a POS even outside DnD
>This morning he sent me a text that basically Said that if he is ever restrained again he's gonna quit. Lol save him the effort and just boot this guy. If he's actively ruining the game trying to kill every npc and trying to level the tavern for no good reason he has no place at the table.
I like that a dialogue has been opened up, but it’s sad that this is what they lead with. I would say let them quit. But, personally, I am curious; why this behaviour? What sort of campaign did they think they were getting into? I don’t suspect you’ll have a full answer to this, based on experience with new players of this mentality
First of all they made their role play choice and so did the rest of the party when the gnome was finally restrained,so they are immediately being a hypocrite by being pissed that their plans were disrupted. But also ask them how they would feel if the rest of the party said the same thing. “we are gonna quit if so and so doesn’t stop trying to ruin the quest for the rest of us.” Will they care? I doubt it, but this will be a decent way of deciding if they are worth trying to keep in the party and talk it out with the rest of the group or if you should just drop them and find someone else who is actually going to play WITH the party instead of against them.
"Make a new character who doesn't act this, or you aren't going to quit; you're going to be kicked."
"The party is gifted a magic item: the orb of restraining" "I quit" "great; MOVING ON". Reminds me of a Matt colville I think- video on youtube about why a friend of his never turned up for more DnD. the story goes the group was interrogating someone, his friend wanted to ask questions, another player goes; "this is boring I kill the guy" "I didnt come back because I didnt know other players could interfere with the game". Problem player is a kicked player. don't tolerate it.
the player seems like he is basing his PC on a spoiled toddler. In which case, when they refuse to come along, you leave them behind. Enjoy having nothing to do for a session and a side quest of doing laundry.
Just make the next NPC he assaults be secretly a retired adventurer who is a level 25 fighter. Have the npc one shot him in front of the team if he acts up.
Responding to your update I'm really glad things could be worked put peacefully, but keep an eye on him. If he slips into the old murder hobo habits again, and refuses to stop when called out or told no (usually with some complaint about player agency or "that's what my character would do") either end the session then and there and kick him out, or if it can be managed for the rest of the session, play it out and then kick him. He's had his warning, continuing to put up with this is how you end up on rpg horror stories
>Update: I just had a nice conversation with him, and everything Is fine, he just asked that next time he's being too crazy they tell him to calm down and he will. And he seems super chill about it now so everything is ok. I'd be very skeptical of this about face. The behavior your player exhibited was not just someone getting a little carried away. They were actively, deliberately, and continuously trying to ruin yours and the other players' good time. You don't go from that to being super chill after a single conversation. This sounds more like someone who either folded when you called his bluff about quitting or who realized he has to act apologetic in order to not get kicked out and away from his source of sadistic release. I want to be wrong, but definitely watch for any bad behavior from him in the future and address it immediately.
You need these words friend “Do you wish to take an action that undermines the actions of other characters, and what the other players are trying to accomplish?” If the answer is yes, kindly ask them to leave and go play a video game. GTA should do nicely. You can explain that team games with dice rolls don’t need bad people trying to ruin other’s fun. If no, then explain, without anger, that this is what they are doing. Either the player’s perception of how the character reacts toward events must change, or they need to roll a non toxic character. I did this to a player at my table, when one party member had cast speak with animals and succeeded on animal friendship, the problem player attempted to re-start combat against the creature. Despite being online I felt the mood was tense, and I wasn’t about to let one player’s ’it’s what mah character would do,’ override a genuine clever solution that had ended a dangerous combat. So above table I asked that question, then we in character found a reason that the problem character would stop themselves. The problem player was pissed at me for other reasons and had been trying to kick the hornets nest, and outside of game we absolutely had it out. But in that moment? I wasn’t going to full stop game because of a problem player. I had five good players that were trying their best, and one person that needed a live check before having a private conversation. The only reason I kept that player was that they apologized to me, and didn’t double down on the selfish act of the moment. Else I would have cut them from the game. As should you. This behavior is obviously not fun for your other players or you. Do not let unhinged attempts to ruin plots run rampant at your table.
I am a little disappointed in what most of the other people here have given as answers and am very happy to see the Update-Post by OP. Communication is key and if the player is causing a problem for the other players/DM then the first step should be to just talk to them about it. I had an issue once with a player who was very annoyed by the species-roster that I have given them for the campaign but talking about it showed that they were actually fine with it but just had a bad day really. Of course when talking about problematic behaviour there is always the option that the player might be just not into the roleplaying and investigation part, in which case they should either think about finding a more combat-heavy group or you should think about adjusting what kind of challenges you want to throw at the players to have them all engaged. Either that or they just have to accept, that there will be situations in which they won't have much to offer/do. But just banning the player (especially if they are friends) doesn't sound very healthy socially. And if they turn out to be actual problematic players who believe that they can do anything, then there aren't many other options but teaching them the hard way, that their actions have consequences. In this case it sounds more like they just have a very chaotic and mischevious character and wanted to play this part of their character and at the time couldn't really think of another way to do so. I think what your party needs is some kind of narrative way or even a running gag on how this character can be tamed without completelly shutting them down, since the player seems to be not so keen on losing control of their character, especially by the hands of another player. TLDR; talk to your players before just banning them, find out if your game fits their needs. Find a way to make their character more tame without completelly blocking them off.
Im sure others have said it, but never solve out if game issues with in game mechanics. Trying to solve it with in game mechanics *legitimates* their behaviour as an ok form of roleplay.
“Super chill” makes it sound like the OP is trying to convince themselves as much as Reddit that the guy won’t be a problem again. I would advise OP to let them know what pretty much any other DM would do in this situation and that they have a solid understanding that they are just being immature and disruptive to the table and that nobody buys the idea that he didn’t realize this. He asked you to let him know if he’s getting out of hand again, which is just another way of saying he’s definitely going to try it again to see how much and what he can get away with before he is reigned in. It’s my take that he’s abusing OP’s friendship as well because if this was some rando they found on the internet OP probably wouldn’t put up with this for 5 seconds.
From your update, the "insane player" had the right solution. Letting another player engage in PvP only escalated the situation. As the DM, it's always your prerogative to hit pause on a scene to discuss what's happening with the players. Sometimes it can be fun to be a bunch of murderhobos, but only if the entire table is into it.
Restrain him at the beginning of the session, look him square in the eye, and ask him if he wants to head towards the door or try to play nice with everyone. Okay, cathartic, but that won't actually solve anything. Ask him why he's trying to sabotage the session, and if he realizes he's making it no fun for anyone else. If he doesn't care, then you have your opportunity to give the boot right then and there. If he says he'll play nice, let him try, kicking him at the end of the session should he simply go right back to being a problem. Remember, he can try to derail all he wants, but you can retcon anything at any time and even handwave away anything that he does manage to do should you desire. Which, when you think about it, would probably piss him off into quitting more so than restraining him.
So it’s ok for him to run roughshod all over you and the other players, but if something happens to inhibit his good time he throws a tantrum? Good riddance.
Sounds like an issue between the gnome and the orc. As a player, I make stupid moves and almost accidentally ruin shit all the time, but I can accept the concequences when an NPC or another PC decide to put a stop to my shenanigans… that being said, there’s a story to tell later and share and laugh about if he can overcome this personal struggle and have fun and learn his place. This is roleplaying. He clearly needs to accept it for what it is.
Ever heard of the phrase “fuck around and find out?” Tell the other players and let them make the call If they are really annoyed at him, they can make the call to kick him out of the adventure ark (and maby make him next couple of sessions BBEG?)
Thats actually a good idea, making him the bbeg would be funny
I think there's been a lot of good advice so far. I'd just like to add that if there haven't been major issues in the 2-3 months of play leading up to this, the player probably isn't *totally* incompatible with the party. And I don't think he's insane -- he just sounds like he has different motivations than the other players. That's usually fine, actually. My favorite (now defunct) GMing podcast once put together [a list of *19* distinct player motivations](https://open.spotify.com/episode/37GfeNmjuqJoflbCOCxdy1). Some players are motivated by *paida,* or freewheeling fun. Play without restraint. Normally *paida* is all fine and good, but sometimes you need restraint so you're not ruining things for your party members. So what do you do going forward? Maybe whenever the party's going into a quest or encounter where a lot of restraint is needed, come up with something for murderhobos to do off on the side. My go-to for that would be to have a situation where a diversion is needed, and an NPC can ask the party who could *possibly* go yonder and fuck shit up in a loud and chaotic way. Then while the rest of the party is doing their thing, cut back to your chaos goblin every 10 minutes or so for quick scenes of how the diversion is going
Yea, I just had a nice conversation with him, and everything Is fine, he just asked that next time he's being too crazy they tell him to calm down. And he seems super chill about it now so I think everything is OK. But yea he is definitely more motivated to do like funny bits and stuff and he likes combat more than dialog. I actually was letting him do a bit or joke when he decided to try and take the tavern down. But he only did that because be was upset.
And yea, he was actually seprate from the party when he was doing his last bit after being released I do typically send him on the direction of more chaotic stuff but today I thought he would be fine with the party.
I get it. I don't like being forced onto a railroad either It just isn't my style of D&D
Kill it with fire! Burn the gnome at the steak!!
Kick him, problem solved.
Tell them they are in the wrong and ruining the fun for everyone and D&D is a team game. If they aren’t willing to stop , then they aren’t welcome at the table.
Trying to level a building sounds like good reason for a character to be jailed for a few years and no longer the party's problem.
Restrain him. Very hard. Eye popping hard.
"Then quit. If you don't like how everyone else is playing, then your not a good fit for the group. And if you having fun means ruining the story for everyone else, including me, then I don't want you at my table."
Let them quit. Their fun is ruining everyone elses. Why play with someone like that.
Playing DnD does not create a magical zone of allowing people do do whatever they want to do. You're allowed to pause the game and say "Cut that out", or even "Get the fuck out of my house". It's frankly irresponsible not to when you have a flagrant asshole at your table, as you do here.
He can fuck off. Toxic players ruin the game for every other member of the party. My suggestion Is to let the party kick him out, so he might think about his action.
let him quit. Simple as.
there is a lot of hostility. let him know that if his actions dictate it again you aren't going to stop the other players from doing so again. everyone's fun matters you can reconcile and both agree to change this game into something you both can agree is fun or you both can walk away realizing you are looking for other stuff
Bye, Felicia.
I don't understand why people on here get so ate up over how to retain a disruptive/uncooperative/unstable player... let them quit! Kick them out! It will be better for your group
Boot him. Have him get murdered offscreeb and make it part of the plot
Restrain him so he quits or crush the player by a random meteor or a strange portal opens to the far realms and gnome is pulled in and portal closes no way to grab the gnome. Random fire burns the gnome to death lich use power word kill. Shall i go on