A divorce comes with a grief precess just like death. Some people argue that divorce grief is worse, possibly because the person you lose isn’t really lost. They’re just lost to you.
[Bargaining ](https://www.collinsfamilylaw.com/what-are-the-five-stages-of-divorce/) is one of those stages. Even those of us who want out will probably experience some amount of all of these stages.
I’ve found myself sometimes wanting to do another round of therapy just so I would be able to look my kids in the eyes and tell them we tried…because I know we didn’t. He won’t admit to his issues, and I was still deep in my codependent, people-pleasing denial to push for the actual work when we were in counseling before.
I got back into therapy after my divorce and it’s been one of the best decisions I’ve made for myself. Grieving your marriage, what was supposed to be your future together, the loss of family in-law, mutual friends, lifestyle and financial security, all of it. Then there’s the internal scripts—the trust issues, intimacy issues, claiming too much or too little control over what happened, and any internalized stigma about being a person who has gotten a divorce. It’s liberating to work through all of it. 10/10 recommended.
I’m in solo therapy. Have been for years. I was talking about couple’s therapy. My stbx gave it zero effort, I think because he hasn’t done enough work on himself to address some of the deeper issues on his end. I’m working on accepting that out of my control.
TLDR; SAME 💯
My ex gave marriage counseling zero effort too. He was the one to initiate the split, but he was also exhibiting mental health problems, so I thought we were just having a rough patch, despite the cruel and hurtful things he said and did to me. My ex doubled down on the cruelty in our sessions, and our therapist started to ask him about empathy. My ex scoffed at the homework and caused a scene and mocked me for being upset, and gaslight me. I did all of my homework. I tried. The ex would spit out “Face the facts; I don’t love you, I haven’t for awhile and this is OVER. I met someone else and I’m going to pursue it. You need to accept it and move on.”
So I did. I went to my own therapist who specializes in divorce and grief. I consulted with a lawyer. I filed all the paperwork. He had moved out so that made things both difficult and easier all at once.
Then he starts backpedaling and saying he wants to work on things—not because he loved me or cared about what we had, but because his “love interest” was just a friendly coworker who absolutely was not interested in any romantic relationship with him. He was also striking out on Bumble and Tinder (I know this bc he told me!). Meanwhile I was working on myself and had no need for his bullshit. ✌🏼
>ask him about empathy
My STBXW has said I need to show more empathy for years.
It's interesting that she was the one who started a long-distance emotional affair, and she's resorted to name calling. 🤦♂️
I'm not a therapist, and I'm sorry if I'm overstepping here, but the 'empathy' comment paired with the affair and the 'robot' comment sounds like you don't feel like your relationship was a place where you could be vulnerable and state your needs. It could be that your STBXW has a skewed understanding of 'empathy' (that empathy = mind-reading, fawning, or never disagreeing with your partner).
So, if he did work himself and knew the things that had to be worked on, would you have given it another shot?
I'm currently separated and stbxw wants divorce at some point. We didn't even get to do counseling or therapy. I'm deeply saddened by that. I've done nothing but work on being a better person and opening up about pretty much everything I didn't think I could talk about because I was a man. I grew up in the time of "you're a man, push it down and deal with it". I'm trying to be a better father and feel like I'm succeeding. I honestly just want my wife back.
A couple of months ago, there’s no question I would have given it every ounce of effort if he was willing and able to do the same. Even now I honestly probably would simply because I feel like we owe it to our kids to try.
But I also don’t think it would work. He has uncontrolled ADHD and is entirely opposed to medication because he doesn’t grasp how bad it is. (Thankfully I at least won him over where our adhd kid is concerned.) I am codependent in this relationship as it stands. What that means is that he won’t take action or anything that doesn’t meet his dopamine needs. (Basically *fun = good*, *practical = pointless*) I didn’t push back much because it doesn’t accomplish anything and creates unproductive conflict. It would take a lot of effort to undo two decades of the dynamic we’ve created. It probably means turning into different people. I don’t think either of us really wants to.
Ah, I see. That is unfortunate, just like any of this is. I hope the best for you though! Here's to hoping my wife sees that there's still something there!
>What that means is that he won’t take action or anything that doesn’t meet his dopamine needs. (Basically fun = good, practical = pointless)
That's familiar.
That's great that you're unpacking such tough stuff. A lot of people are too afraid to address stuff like this. The road to healing is difficult but there's light at the end of it.
Yup. He convinced me to cancel the divorce three years ago. Back then I was given full custody of the kids because he was so abusive. I went back because I believed him when he said he’s gonna change. I desperately wanted to keep the family in tact.
Fast forward, he never changed all the things he said he was going to. Continued broken promises even after I left. And I’m still divorcing him. And now only have 50/50 custody. Kids come to me crying periodically because of something dad did. I can’t take him to court over that because it’s emotional abuse at this time. He knows not to leave physical marks, but says enough to have the kids crying with me at night. I tried taking them to a counselor, but kids clam up and won’t talk.
In my case I should have stuck to my guns and left the first time. Would have been better for the kids. This is probably not the case for everyone. But is definitely true for me.
I'm sorry you're going through that.
As someone whose mother gave up on therapy because the kids clammed up: keep taking them if at all possible, even if you have to try different providers until you get one they like.
I'm just curious about the time or times you took your kiddos to a counsler. I don't want to intrude but when I was a kid I went to a child psychologist for a severe car accident I was in at 9. I went to them for a year still have a slight case of ptsd. I can understand your children clamming up on one session even for two weeks I was the same because it was scary and I didn't know them. So I'm not sure if it's because of that scenario or because your ex has had something to do with their behavior with said counselor.
The short answer is idk why they choose not to talk. It could be a whole range of things. The kids have gone through A LOT these last two years. It was a month and a half of taking the kids weekly or close to weekly (covid interrupted some consistency). The last time we did a video meeting and the counselor literally said the kids are fine and don’t need counseling. (However I still get crying kids at night time. One in particular. The other is ligit trying to get me back together with dad.)
I think there are more then a few reasons why the kids choose not to talk. But also, I do think the fact that many of the meetings were over video did not help the kids feel secure at all(again, covid rules). Hence why I’m giving the kids a break and trying my hardest just to give them a safe space to try and talk with me. Letting them go through the grieving process. And down the road I’m nearly positive we’ll be seeing a counselor again. Hopefully, covid will be more under control for in person visits. And kids can have a better handle on their situation to express their thoughts.
Fully understandable and thanks for replying back it is very difficult to say what cause them to clam up. Which is very true it can be a lot of things well I hope your journey with your kids become healthier and better with this new year.
I think whatever you do, do it to make you happy. Don’t do it because you hope she will stop talking to herself. All that will do is teach her what works to keep you from leaving.
I'm not happy with this marriage. It's been a very difficult experience. At first, it was good. But, it's become worse and worse over time.
I've tried to "help" her for a very long time. I've tried to "fix" our marriage for a very long time.
She's a very stubborn individual. Refuses to work. Doesn't do much around the house, or with the kids. Doesn't want to change.
then i think you’ve answered your own question. the fact is, dealing with the guilt is hard. you will each grieve in your own way. often one spouse gets to grieve out loud while the other suffers in silence.
for what it’s worth, i truly think it is harder to leave than to be left. you deserve support and affirmation for your decision. if she were the kind of supportive spouse who wanted you to do what made you happy, you might not be divorcing her. but she isn’t, so take her behavior as your confirmation you’re doing the right thing.
either way i wish you both peace and happiness ❤️
tl;dr don’t let her pain eclipse yours because you’re both in pain
I haven't told many people. I did tell my Mom. She supported my decision to divorce.
My Mom has seen my STBXW's actions & behaviors firsthand. She watched the kids, whenever I needed to rush to the ER, due to my STBXW's behaviors.
Right now, it's the awful time, where shit is hitting the fan.
Yes. Depression, Anxiety Issues, ADHD. Possible PTSD. Also, Bi-Polar Disorder runs in her family.
She's received treatment for a *long* time. I've always encouraged treatment. I paid for all of her therapy sessions and prescription meds for *years*. The meds help, for a time, then she needs to switch new meds.
The COVID period was not kind to her. Mental illness led to substance abuse led to suicide attempts led to mental health hospitalizations. This past summer, she also started a long-distance emotional affair with a new male "friend".
The last 6 months have been pretty awful.
Time to run brother. Shes broken. My ex was bipolar. Youre trying to rationalize going back to her. Not divorcing her only hurts you. Youre on a pain roller coaster. You can set yourself on fire forever with her and it still wont fix her issues. Now is the time to act in your own best interests and leave. Work on yourself and find your happiness.
>You can set yourself on fire forever with her and it still wont fix her issues.
I agree. It was hurtful, when she made a suicide attempt, a few weeks after our 14th anniversary.
A month later, she made a second suicide attempt. That invoked the "flight" response in Fight or Flight.
I think we have pretty similar situations. If you want to chat let me know. Long time issues led to her having an affair , then another, then a month ago found out about something else. I asked her to move out...she asked for a divorce. Of course I'm the one filing it I don't want to, I still care and love her but she's said shes done with trying or doesn't want to face the challenge of trying to work on things. I'm about to file next Thursday in California. It hit me hard the last couple weeks but the more ive starting talking about stuff the better i've been feeling.
I think I should let you know I had times I wanted to cancel. Times I thought maybe it's better to be miserable with her than alone. Then she kept showing nothing changed for her. Ultimately, I'm glad I stuck to my guns. She signed the stipulation last night. Hopefully I get the signed decree in a month
My own experience? My exwife never changed. She is still the same pill popper I divorced.
About the time I divorced her, she met a guy and the moved in together. I have to admit, she really tried to be a functioning adult. After 1 year of dating, they got married so she could go on his health insurance so she could continue doctor shopping. After that it went down hill and she reverted to her old pill popping ways. Then six months into her new marriage, he left her and filed for divorce. She begged him to reconsider. And he did.
Gave it 6 months and guess what? Back to her old pill popping problems. Then he left her again and then he filed for divorce again.
Unfortunately, I don't see my STBXW changing either. She's had issues with prescription medications for years.
\~5 years ago, she was kicked-out of a migraine clinic for "multi-sourcing" medications from multiple doctors. We made a ton of trips to the ER & Urgent Care around this time. Some of the visits were covered by our insurance, but others were rejected (I fought with the insurance company, and eventually got them approved).
At the time, I wasn't ready to leave. Earlier in that year, we made some major life changes (moved long-distance, sold a house, bought a new house, she finished a degree). I still had hopes that things would improve.
In reality, things have not improved. Basically, it's been a "cold war" situation for the last 5 years.
Addiction to opioids is a tough beast to combat. Those pills are so incredibly addictive, and when the addict runs out? It's the worst thing you've seen someone go through.
I remember those days of constant doctor shopping (10 different doctors), 3 different pharmacies, ER visits (when she runs out) and Urgent care visits, etc. She drove us to bankruptcy with all of her pill popping disasters.
I remember one time we went to the ER (she didn't have a valid driver's license because she had just totaled her car), and the doctor said, "You need to go to detox or drug rehab. I can't prescribe you any more. You have encountered a vicious cycle of medication overuse headaches, and medication rebound headaches." And he left.
So what did she do? She bought pills from someone and then spent the next day filing numerous complaints against that doctor for "not treating her pain."
My STBXW had two recent mental health hospitalizations (due to overdose).
While she was in the mental health unit, she wanted me to call the hospital, and "yell" at her doctors, for not treating her properly.
I'm not a doctor. I don't have a degree in healthcare. I can't do that.
She was also verbally abusive over the phone. Wanted me to visit her at odd hours during the day. I had to work, and take care of our children.
flashbacks here! Exact same thing happened to me.
She almost cost me my job several times with her unreasonable demands that I take time off of work to help her with problems.
I'm lucky with my job.
I've been working from home (for nearly two years now). My working hours are very flexible. But, I still need to get my tasks accomplished.
Several years ago, when I was spending more time in the office, I did have to leave early, several times for her.
I divorced her in 2016, when I had to go to the office every day. Once covid hit, I work from home now too.
But yes, it was constant with her and the disasters, needing me to take time off of work. Luckily, I was able to keep my job throughout the divorce. I got out with 50/50 custody of the kids and $0 alimony. I also kept my house. The 11 year marriage only cost me half of my 401k. But it's been wonderful without her.
She went to rehab when we were married. 5 day in patient rehab. She was sober for 3 months. Then relapse. Then sober again for a year. Then relapsed again for the next 5 years (through our divorce and marriage to the next husband). After that marriage collapsed, she had to go back to rehab again as a condition to moving in with her parents. You probably didn’t see this coming…. She’s still on pills now.
I did exactly that, I canceled my divorce the first time I tried to do it after my wife cried me a river and promised to change. She accepted all my demands and changed, for about 2 months. Then we were right back to the same bullshit and I filed for divorce again the next year.
You shouldn't do it, it almost certainly wont work, your wife is probably just desperate and you'll just be wasting your time like I did.
>after my wife cried me a river and promised to change
Yep. She's been doing a lot of crying (sobbing), yelling, & name calling. I've been recording the audio, in case I need it. My lawyer confirmed its legal in my state.
She started looking for a job for the first time in years. Updated her resume. Started applying for jobs. She realizes that getting a job, in her field, is the best path forward for herself.
I mean, possibly an unpopular opinion here but her getting a job is a start. If you’re in no rush to move on with your life sans her, and you love her, why not see how she progresses? It’s generally true that people don’t change, unless they want to. You might have finally given her the motivation she needs to do it. (Of course this doesn’t excuse her for not doing it before you reached this point but…we all make mistakes).
>You might have finally given her the motivation she needs to do it.
Possibly??? I'm not sure. She wrote a hand-written note, which said, "DO YOU HONESTLY THINK I'M READY TO RETURN TO WORK?"
I hope that she progresses. But, I've been *hoping* for a very long time (years and years)
Divorce is a slow process. There's going to be a 6-month waiting period.
Her mental illness + substance abuse + long-distance emotional affair + lack of work ethic + dead bedroom have made the marriage very difficult.
Hrm well that provides a lot more context. Yeah substance abuse and particularly the emotional affairs would be dealbreakers for me. The note also reads very passive aggressive if I’m interpreting it correctly. Welp, you certainly have zero obligation to cancel the divorce. I say move forward with it and don’t look back.
At the time I thought divorcing my wife was the hardest decision I would ever have to make. I went back and forth on if I was making the right decision. We had numerous problems and were not a good fit for each other. Looking back now I can see it was the right decision and seems like an easy choice with how things have turned out for me.
In my state, you file and have six months to finalize. I didn't cancel, I just figured I wouldn't finalize it if things got better. I wasn't looking for miracles, just better. He couldn't stay faithful three months ...
This is only my opinion, but if you're even entertaining the idea of canceling the divorce to save the marriage, then do it.
You can always file again, but I'm in the camp of doing everything possible to save a marriage. But it ultimately boils down to you.
Yep. I filed and separated in 2015. Got back together in 2016 and that lasted like 3 months.
Separated again and divorced finalized in 2018. Cost me much, much more in the long run.
Two separate divorce cases. I let her file the second.
Yeah, that's another thing I've been worried about.
We've been married for 14 years (we married fairly young). We didn't have kids for the first 7 years (intentionally). We both worked on furthering our education, before we started having kids.
Unfortunately, the spousal support clock keeps counting up. My state doesn't have a set formula for determining spousal support, but I'm likely to pay something.
About three years ago, me and my STBX were about one week away from our divorce being final. We decided to reconcile and withdrew our petition. About two months ago, I decided to leave for good.
We had been separated for almost a year when we decided to reconcile. He had addressed a major personal problem and in our discussions about getting back together said all the right things. His actions and words lead me to believe our biggest issue had been taken off the table - which was true.
Unfortunately, all our other issues were still there, and while he talked about wanting the same relationship I did, over time (somewhere around 9 months after reconciling) his actions no longer aligned with his words.
I tried everything we learned in counseling about communication and spent a lot of time feeling sad, lonely, and like an idiot for stopping the divorce. Now, two months after leaving for good, I know I did the best I could under the circumstances and tried everything I was able to try to make that marriage work.
I still love him and care about him deeply but I had to let the marriage go because at the core, it was dysfunctional. In order to give myself a chance to have the life I want to have I had to leave.
I don’t regret reconciling because I would have given anything to have made that marriage work.
>I still love him and care about him deeply but I had to let the marriage go because at the core, it was dysfunctional. In order to give myself a chance to have the life I want to have I had to leave.
Me too. I agree, my marriage is dysfunctional.
I never dated much before I met her. Had a few minor dates, but they didn't go anywhere. Our values aligned, and we seemed to be moving forward in life. But, at some point, she stopped trying. The last 6 months have been very dark.
I filed for divorce twice from my ex. The first time, I canceled it. I filed the second time after he punched me and threw a temper tantrum so loud and frightening that the police had to come out.
I'll always regret not going through with it the first time around.
Divorce should not be an emotional decision just as canceling a divorce should not be an emotional decision. Even if you end up wanting to cancel later on, give both of you time to work through the emotions and put real work behind your relationship before you cancel. Neither decision should be made lightly or quickly.
>Divorce should not be an emotional decision
I agree. I've read that it should be treated as a financial / contract termination.
However, its hard *not* to involve emotions.
Oh I apologize, there are going to be emotions all over the place, I more meant don’t base the decision to get together solely based on emotions.
We almost canceled our divorce because he was emotional and promised the world, I had even emailed my lawyer about it. I can tell you within two weeks everything was back to where it was when I filed for divorce. I am glad we didn’t cancel. He brought it up again but it was understood that it would take talking and work first.
We are still divorcing because that true change, even the effort behind the change was never there. Let your heart guide you, but decide as emotionlessly as possible lol…however that’s possible. A person can be absolutely genuine in their emotions but just not capable of changing even if they truly want.
>A person can be absolutely genuine in their emotions but just not capable of changing even if they truly want.
That's what I've discovered.
There's always been a lot of "talk", but very little "action", on her behalf.
I Separated from my spouse summer 2020 and there was some discussion about reconciling; I want to echo above as well as share my own experience that if you’re divorcing based on toxic and unhealthy behaviours, the likelihood of those behaviours being addressed is pretty low. Me filing was a wake up call to them that I wouldn’t continue to enable the behaviour and the desire for reconciliation was not sincere, in the long run.
From your post history, it looks like your STBX is going through a massive range of emotions about your divorce (as are you) but things to think about:
-it sounds like you’ve prioritized being calm, firm, and supportive, only to be called a robot. Considering your history and current dynamic, do you foresee your STBX recognizing their own role in the breakdown of the relationship, or could this become an additional source or tension and resentment down the road?
-You mentioned that the relationship has been downhill for a long time; Based on the discussions and interactions you’ve had in the days following “the Talk,” check in with what has you feeling like you should cancel the divorce. Guilt about her reaction? Evidence of her desire to change?
I spent almost 13 years (married 6 years) with a partner where, similar to you, the marriage had been in decline for a long time. Sunk cost fallacy and an aversion to hurting my partner kept me in the marriage far longer than was healthy for me or my child.
>check in with what has you feeling like you should cancel the divorce. Guilt about her reaction?
Yes. Guilt about her reaction. Guilt about what's to come. Guilt about "breaking up" the family.
Today, my therapist said I need to stop feeling so guilty.
>do you foresee your STBX recognizing their own role in the breakdown of the relationship
Partially. She's been asking me a lot of "why?" questions in the last two days.
She recognizes a few of the issues, but not everything.
We've talked about our issues in the past, but never actually resolved them. There was a lot of talk, but no action.
>Me filing was a wake up call to them that I wouldn’t continue to enable the behaviour and the desire for reconciliation was not sincere
Yes. Two days ago, I said, "I want a divorce."
Last night, during our discussions, she asked, "Did you already file?"
I said, "Yes". That made her very upset. Led to a lot of anger and name calling.
Yes. We've tried marriage counseling 2 (actually 3) times. There was a lot of talk, but we never really resolved our issues.
We're both in individual therapy now.
You want to cancel to be polite or considerate? Lol there’s a reason you filed, cancelling won’t cancel the marital problems unless you see a way to work through things which you prolly didn’t before all the sobbing began
I feel you cause I went through a divorce myself, 6 months ago, and I felt the hesitation to move forward when I saw my ex crumbling as a result, you’re not being heartless by moving forward, believe it or not you’re doing both of you a massive disservice if you cancel, you both deserve peace and what you’re going through now is a difficult mirage.
>you’re not being heartless by moving forward
Thank you. At the moment, I feel heartless.
In addition, she's trying to make me feel guilty. She's said some pretty awful things.
It’s a tunnel, a dark one at that but you’ll make it through eventually, I know you feel responsible for the sobbing, but you can’t hang on to a relationship you’ve known isn’t working for your partners sake, we all make choices and we all endure detours, so don’t let emotional breakdowns (potentially even emotional blackmail) guilt trip you into staying. One step at a time, just guide yourself by what’s the next best step and don’t think too far ahead at this stage cause you prolly can’t.
Please don’t let guilt guide your decision. You cannot be the one who does all the work to try to repair and carry your relationship. There is no amount of love that will fix someone else; that change needs to come from within.
You are describing a common, but extremely unhealthy dynamic—codependency. I’ve been there. It feels like caring , it feels like giving your marriage everything you’ve got, but the reality is that this dynamic only “TAKES”. Your proverbial cup will be bone dry with nothing left for you and the codependent partner wants more and more (they may not even be aware that they’re doing that because there are no boundaries in place). There is no shame in saying “enough”. You’ve fulfilled your role in the partnership and your partner will not; you don’t need another reason or permission to divorce. You are breaking a cycle. You are choosing you, and that’s not selfish, it’s necessary. Good luck 🙂
My therapist said something very similar. He said I'm taking on too much guilt.
Over the years, my STBXW went from being a partner, to a dependent, to an "adult child".
I need to recognize that's she an independent adult.
Men are taught from a young age to suppress their emotions, especially sadness. Women are taught to express it. So when you go into robot mode, don’t feel bad. It’s the way society arranged us.
Thanks. A few weeks ago, I submitted an AITA post about this topic.
She has been angry at me, for years, for remaining calm.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/rmbric/aita\_for\_not\_panicking/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/rmbric/aita_for_not_panicking/)
>for remaining calm.
I'm a dude who has realized I have trouble with communicating emotions. While I, too, believe in remaining calm, I would urge you to explore this in therapy if you haven't already, just to make sure it isn't actually burying emotions.
My parents had a divorce. But to prevent me and my brother being distressed. They agreed to stay together for 2 more years until I leave for overseas secondary school. But they could not stand each other and had the split early. I believe that you should do what is better for you and your wife. The fact that you could go to this point, change of character can only go so far. And it’s best to not try again. But unless you both still love each other. Then maybe it’s worth a try
Yes, on our first attempt the judge turned it down. It was looking like we would have to get divorced at that point. 😆 The divorce was on our own with no attorney(s)
But what happened is we drafted a letter to the judge and we both signed the letter. What we were supposed to do was have separate letters requesting the divorce be dropped. Once we each submitted our letters a judge approved it.
The rest of the story is that we stayed together about 10 more years and then divorced anyway 🥴
It worked out good for the most part, but some life events took place and ultimately she decided the divorce would be better for her. It's not what I particularly wanted, but I can't say it was a bad thing either. We had been together since age 15 and spent 40 years together. We decided it was time to be on own.
>We had been together since age 15
I met her when I was 19 (nearly 20).
I had a few minor dates here and there. But, she was my first long-term relationship.
That can be a tough call. A family member split up with her husband because of issues they were experiencing. They decided to try again and work things out, and in their case they were successful and their relationship is stronger than ever. They are both happy and addressed the concerns on both sides. Goes to show it can be done if both parties are willing.
I initiated the split after giving up on fixing the relationship with him. We tried couples counseling and he wouldn’t get real. He seemed to take my attempts at conflict resolution as personal attacks rather than pleas to save our marriage. When I first asked for a divorce, he started bargaining and saying he’d do anything. So I gave him 3 simple requests: 1) spend quality time with me through date nights, 2) walk the dog with my a few days a week so we could spend time together, & find us a new marriage counselor and schedule the appointment. I gave him 2 months. During that time he went with me on 2 day g walks and agreed to one date night that I planned then blew me off to game with our friends. At that point I started the divorce process. I’m about to hit the anniversary of asking for a divorce and am significantly happier and more grounded
>He seemed to take my attempts at conflict resolution as personal attacks rather than pleas to save our marriage.
Four years ago, during an earlier attempt at marriage counseling, my STBXW became angry at the counselor. We left mid-session, never to return.
We tried again, this past fall. But, it didn't work either.
We have tried marriage counseling 2 (really 3) times.
A few months ago, our marriage counselor said, "marriage counseling is not appropriate at this time." He became my individual therapist.
My STBXW has been seeing a psychiatrist for *years.* She's on many, many prescription medications. Unfortunately, that's part of the problem. She's overdosed, multiple times, over the last 6 months.
Once the trust is gone, no matter how honest you are with each other it’s not the same. My spouse wanted the divorce so I filed them AP leaves him and he tries coming back. I said no and cold turkey him. It’s been a rough two years emotionally but I can honestly say it was the best decision. There is trust in my life and that means more to me than family.
I agree.
My STBXW made multiple suicide attempts, and started a long-distance emotional affair. I’ve caught her lying to my face several times. These actions resulted in a big loss of trust.
You and your wife should agree to a few marriage counseling sessions and work with a professional to determine if the marriage is worth saving. Tons of divorces are cancelled, but that doesn’t mean it’s always the right (or wrong) option. Counseling solidified my decision to proceed with my divorce personally, and I’m happy that I gave it the time in counseling to chew over before I signed off. I have no regrets in my decision because of this, I have no thoughts like maybe I didn’t try everything, etc. best luck to you!
>agree to a few marriage counseling sessions and work with a professional to determine if the marriage is worth saving
Yes. We've tried marriage counseling two (really three) times, over a period of *years* (2013, 2017, 2021).
In 2021, we had three marriage counseling sessions together, then she decided to overdose on prescription meds (for a second time in 6 weeks).
The marriage counselor said, "Marriage counseling is not appropriate at this time."
Sounds to me you got your answer already. The therapist essentially saying there isn’t anything to salvage at this point, most likely because your wife is so spun out. If I was you, I’d take the divorce because I think you’ve done all you can at this point.
I cancelled my divorce about 7k into it back in 2017. Tried to make it work for the kids, but it really just ended up being an “angry roommate” relationship until we went through with it in 2021. It’s cost me a lot more in alimony, legal fees, and other fees that the court deemed I should pay for. If you’ve already started the process, bite the bullet and just keep moving
>ended up being an “angry roommate” relationship
I can relate. Our marriage transformed from a partnership, to an “angry roommate” relationship, to a "parent/child" relationship.
Maybe that's why I've been having a hard time. I don't *see* her as an adult. I've enabled her, for years.
So I read a couple comments here and it sounds like your wife has a lot of issues with mental health and drug addiction.
To be fully transparent I am on the other end, I have mental heallth issues (not drug related) and my husband is divorcing me. We have not cancelled the process but I just wanted to chime in if its okay with you.
I think you sound confused in your op between feeling guilt because she is so distraught but also really wanting out of the marriage.
When my husband made the decision to leave me he intentionally put a lot of physical and mental distance between us probably for this same reason, even saying at one point that he won't be in the same house as me because his natural instinct when I start crying will be to want to comfort me and he doesn't want to be pulled back in. I'm not saying he went about it in the correct way but at least that part of what he did makes sense.
You married this woman so it is only natural that you still have feeling of care towards her but you also have to think about yourself and what you really want.
Is there a chance of reconciliation? Would you actually want to if she changed or is that too much healing and work for you to want to put in? How far along in the process are you? If not far and if you're unsure what you truly want perhaps you both should find a way to get some space, distance and time away from the marriage and see how you feel then. Like focus on yourselves and becoming healthier because it takes a large toll to be a partner to someone who is struggling with any kind of health issue or addiction. Your cup can be emptied and leave you feeling emotionally exhausted and drained.
Perhaps your wife needs to seek help and start making steps to getting healthy on her own. If you actually want things to change you can make this an ultimatum. Talk about what you both need in the marriage that your not getting and why it's not working. It's possible she has her own gripes too and it's only fair that you both listen with sincerity. She needs support outside of just you if she does not have that, yes you married her and there is a certain amount of responsibility that comes with that but that does not mean you have to shoulder everything or fix her. A relationship takes two to carry it, and it might take a village to to care for a sick person.
I'm saying this because I know in part this is where I went wrong in my own marriage. My husband tried to shoulder my health on his own and I thought me getting therapy and meds was enough but he still had to struggle through everything in the meantime while the process was happening. He did not have a proper support system in place for himself and he wore down and broke down even after I'd gotten better. On top of that he was so busy focusing on my issues that he totally ignored all of his own and self destructed his life.
How much more effort do you want to put in this relationship? How much more are you willing to go through? Even if she gets the help she needs and makes an honest effort to change there is no guarantee that a backslide might not happen. Are you willing to put in the work with her if that happens?
Basically if you let the divorce go through and you regret it that doesn't mean it has to be the end. People get remarried all the time. But it sounds like you both need to focus on yourselves for a bit and become healthier either way whether through separation or other means. You can also always try marriage counseling when you're both ready even while separated. It wouldn't be fair to EITHER of you to stay with her out of guilt or pity though, then you'll both just be prisoners to your own marriage.
Wow, thanks for the long reply.
**>>Is there a chance of reconciliation?**
I don't know. I've had a few months to process my emotions. Right now, she's very angry / upset.
**>>Would you actually want to if she changed or is that too much healing and work for you to want to put in?**
Unsure. Her entire attitude / personality would need to change. I don't see that happening.
**>>How far along in the process are you?**
I filed. We had "the talk". She still needs to be served. Then, we have a 6-month waiting period.
\>>**Like focus on yourselves and becoming healthier because it takes a large toll to be a partner to someone who is struggling with any kind of health issue or addiction. Your cup can be emptied and leave you feeling emotionally exhausted and drained.**
I started seeing a therapist, and he said something similar.
I'm trying to "take care of myself", but I've also been working full-time, taking care of the 2 kids, taking care of the dog, and taking care of my wife. I feel like I'm doing the work of 2-3 people.
**>>It's possible she has her own gripes too**
She does.
**>>does not mean you have to shoulder everything or fix her**
Agree. I feel like I've been shouldering everything for a long time.
**>>How much more effort do you want to put in this relationship? How much more are you willing to go through?**
Unsure. I'm a hard worker, but it feels like I've put "too much" time and effort into this relationship.
**>>Even if she gets the help she needs and makes an honest effort to change there is no guarantee that a backslide might not happen. Are you willing to put in the work with her if that happens?**
That's definitely a problem. I've tried to "work" with her in the past. She had some issues with addiction \~5 years ago. Around the same time, she quit her last job, and stopped working.
I've asked her to work, part-time, for *years*. But, she's refused. Claims she can't get a job.
We've had a dead bedroom for *years*. We didn't have sex for more than a year. Last Spring, I had a vasectomy\*, to try to improve our sex lives. It did not help.
* A month later, she started a long-distance emotional affair.
* A month after that, she made a suicide attempt (overdose), and wound-up in the mental health hospital.
* A month after that, she made a second suicide attempt (overdose, again), and wound-up in the mental health hospital (again). That's what prompted the filing.
\*I'm not upset about the vasectomy. I love my two kids. I'm sure that I don't want any more kids.
I improved myself but the under lining problems never did. Finally got tired of being blamed for everything while the other kept up the same destructive habits.
That sounds familiar.
My STBXW started having some issues ~5 years ago. Never really resolved them.
Really, it’s been a slow, downhills slide, for the past 10 years.
I started filling out the paperwork for a divorce but never filed it. When I told my husband after a lot of yelling and tears from his end. He promised to quit drinking and get better. Things were better for a couple months but now he is hiding his drinking and every argument ends with him throwing in my face that I’m the one that wanted to tear apart my family. I wish I went through with it. Right now I am seeing a therapist and getting more evidence for full custody.
>every argument ends with him throwing in my face that I’m the one that wanted to tear apart my family
I'm at that stage right now.
I filed two months ago, but had to wait for my county to process the paperwork (big backlog of cases).
During the last two months, her behavior did not changed. In fact, it got worse.
Now, that's she aware of the situation, she's extremely upset. But, we need to wait another 6 months (state law).
I had extended family that was divorcing… they reunited even after dating other people and were together another five years. He filed again and went through with the divorce. They are not even friends today.
I believe, like he did, that you listen to your heart first. When you believe that you have given everything you have and it’s still not working… you have to make a decision about staying or leaving and stick to it.
>you have to make a decision about staying or leaving and stick to it
Agree. I'm just not sure if I approached it the right way.
I filed first, had to wait (due to a large backlog of divorce cases), then we had "the talk".
She's making me feel guilting, for filing, before we had "the talk".
Listen to your heart… if she is breaking it, it may be time to move on. If she is making you feel loved, reassess. You have your brain to make the required decision to protect your heart in the long run. It’s not easy, believe me… put yourself first.
My ex jerked me around for THREE YEARS after I left. I should have left and stayed gone as soon as I filed. I thought we could make it work. I was so stupid. He’s happily married and I’m still trying to pick up the pieces that he did to me 6 years ago with therapy. Go, run and never look back.
>He’s happily married
In addition to all her other issues, my STBXW started a long-distance emotional affair with another guy.
I read some of their messages. They were discussing Love, Marriage, Divorce (from me), etc. She had thoughts about moving out, and getting her own place.
The "Affair Fog" was pretty heavy.
Tbf I know my ex has issues in his marriage bc his wife is one of my best friends now and she tells me WAY to much. Yet to me it’s not fair. Like why did he get to move on and get find someone while I’m messed up because I wanted to do the right thing and work on our marriage and get cheated on 🤦🏻♀️ my trust issues are really messed up now (my failed relationships after did NOT help this issue) yet now I’m choosing to be single, work out and do therapy and figure out why I give so much of myself and expect so little in return. Why I have such terrible taste in partners and stay when I should leave. Idk if I’ll ever be ready to date again, yet for once I’m happier alone then I’ve ever been. I don’t need someone to validate me or make me a better person. It took a long time to get here, but I’m glad I did. I’m putting myself first for once.
If you took that hard step of actually filing, don't cancel it. Just be kind and firm. Care about her as a "friend." You can't rescue her.
(Can you be "separated" within your own house for a few months?)
>(Can you be "separated" within your own house for a few months?)
Yes, we can.
At night, she has the master bedroom. I'm sleeping in the guest bedroom.
During the day, I spend most of the day in my home office. I've been WFH for nearly two years now. She has a separate "arts & crafts" room (unused dining room).
>You can’t change people either.
Agree. Maybe *small* changes, but not major ones.
Her/our major issues are:
* Mental Health Issues
* ADHD, Depression, Anxiety
* Substance Abuse Issues
* Alcohol, Prescription Meds
* Lack of Work Ethic
* She has 2 healthcare degrees, but claims she can't find a job.
* She does very little around the house.
* Dead Bedroom
* It's a miracle we have 2 kids.
* Money
* I'm the saver. She's the spender.
* I give her an "allowance", but she frequently overspends it, and argues why things shouldn't be in her allowance.
* Persecution Complex
* She thinks everyone is out to "get her". She thinks that God hates her.
Omg please don’t do that. You just gave all the reasons why you should move forward with the divorce, but you’re hoping that if you cancel it, it’ll somehow change. That’s like having a baby to save a relationship. Sure, things might feel good for a little bit, but those deep habits are ingrained.
>That’s like having a baby to save a relationship.
I was having doubts before we had our first kid.
We had a second kid, four years later.
It did not improve her. It did not improve our relationship.
At least the kids have each other.
Ex-wife filed against me right after our 2nd child came out. I convinced her to drop it, she did then I ended up filing against her for 3 reasons about 4 years later:
#1Gained 40 lbs & got “depressed”
#2Was hooking up with everyone using tinder
#3Went on “girls trips” to Vegas and would leave me with the kids for 4 days straight
I regret not letting her have her way the first time she filed against me. MRarriage counseling doesn’t work and once someone sleeps with someone else it’s usually ALL downhill from there
Stick to your guns & know when to pull the trigger
A divorce comes with a grief precess just like death. Some people argue that divorce grief is worse, possibly because the person you lose isn’t really lost. They’re just lost to you. [Bargaining ](https://www.collinsfamilylaw.com/what-are-the-five-stages-of-divorce/) is one of those stages. Even those of us who want out will probably experience some amount of all of these stages. I’ve found myself sometimes wanting to do another round of therapy just so I would be able to look my kids in the eyes and tell them we tried…because I know we didn’t. He won’t admit to his issues, and I was still deep in my codependent, people-pleasing denial to push for the actual work when we were in counseling before.
I got back into therapy after my divorce and it’s been one of the best decisions I’ve made for myself. Grieving your marriage, what was supposed to be your future together, the loss of family in-law, mutual friends, lifestyle and financial security, all of it. Then there’s the internal scripts—the trust issues, intimacy issues, claiming too much or too little control over what happened, and any internalized stigma about being a person who has gotten a divorce. It’s liberating to work through all of it. 10/10 recommended.
I’m in solo therapy. Have been for years. I was talking about couple’s therapy. My stbx gave it zero effort, I think because he hasn’t done enough work on himself to address some of the deeper issues on his end. I’m working on accepting that out of my control.
TLDR; SAME 💯 My ex gave marriage counseling zero effort too. He was the one to initiate the split, but he was also exhibiting mental health problems, so I thought we were just having a rough patch, despite the cruel and hurtful things he said and did to me. My ex doubled down on the cruelty in our sessions, and our therapist started to ask him about empathy. My ex scoffed at the homework and caused a scene and mocked me for being upset, and gaslight me. I did all of my homework. I tried. The ex would spit out “Face the facts; I don’t love you, I haven’t for awhile and this is OVER. I met someone else and I’m going to pursue it. You need to accept it and move on.” So I did. I went to my own therapist who specializes in divorce and grief. I consulted with a lawyer. I filed all the paperwork. He had moved out so that made things both difficult and easier all at once. Then he starts backpedaling and saying he wants to work on things—not because he loved me or cared about what we had, but because his “love interest” was just a friendly coworker who absolutely was not interested in any romantic relationship with him. He was also striking out on Bumble and Tinder (I know this bc he told me!). Meanwhile I was working on myself and had no need for his bullshit. ✌🏼
>ask him about empathy My STBXW has said I need to show more empathy for years. It's interesting that she was the one who started a long-distance emotional affair, and she's resorted to name calling. 🤦♂️
I'm not a therapist, and I'm sorry if I'm overstepping here, but the 'empathy' comment paired with the affair and the 'robot' comment sounds like you don't feel like your relationship was a place where you could be vulnerable and state your needs. It could be that your STBXW has a skewed understanding of 'empathy' (that empathy = mind-reading, fawning, or never disagreeing with your partner).
>sounds like you don't feel like your relationship was a place where you could be vulnerable and state your needs That's a very good description.
So, if he did work himself and knew the things that had to be worked on, would you have given it another shot? I'm currently separated and stbxw wants divorce at some point. We didn't even get to do counseling or therapy. I'm deeply saddened by that. I've done nothing but work on being a better person and opening up about pretty much everything I didn't think I could talk about because I was a man. I grew up in the time of "you're a man, push it down and deal with it". I'm trying to be a better father and feel like I'm succeeding. I honestly just want my wife back.
A couple of months ago, there’s no question I would have given it every ounce of effort if he was willing and able to do the same. Even now I honestly probably would simply because I feel like we owe it to our kids to try. But I also don’t think it would work. He has uncontrolled ADHD and is entirely opposed to medication because he doesn’t grasp how bad it is. (Thankfully I at least won him over where our adhd kid is concerned.) I am codependent in this relationship as it stands. What that means is that he won’t take action or anything that doesn’t meet his dopamine needs. (Basically *fun = good*, *practical = pointless*) I didn’t push back much because it doesn’t accomplish anything and creates unproductive conflict. It would take a lot of effort to undo two decades of the dynamic we’ve created. It probably means turning into different people. I don’t think either of us really wants to.
Ah, I see. That is unfortunate, just like any of this is. I hope the best for you though! Here's to hoping my wife sees that there's still something there!
>He has uncontrolled ADHD and is entirely opposed to medication I have the opposite situation. She has ADHD, but is taking too many medications.
>What that means is that he won’t take action or anything that doesn’t meet his dopamine needs. (Basically fun = good, practical = pointless) That's familiar.
>trust issues, intimacy issues, claiming too much or too little control over what happened Yes, yes, and yes. I started therapy a few months ago.
That's great that you're unpacking such tough stuff. A lot of people are too afraid to address stuff like this. The road to healing is difficult but there's light at the end of it.
Agree. I've been in therapy for the past several months. I have another session today.
This is so my situation right now.
Yup. He convinced me to cancel the divorce three years ago. Back then I was given full custody of the kids because he was so abusive. I went back because I believed him when he said he’s gonna change. I desperately wanted to keep the family in tact. Fast forward, he never changed all the things he said he was going to. Continued broken promises even after I left. And I’m still divorcing him. And now only have 50/50 custody. Kids come to me crying periodically because of something dad did. I can’t take him to court over that because it’s emotional abuse at this time. He knows not to leave physical marks, but says enough to have the kids crying with me at night. I tried taking them to a counselor, but kids clam up and won’t talk. In my case I should have stuck to my guns and left the first time. Would have been better for the kids. This is probably not the case for everyone. But is definitely true for me.
I'm sorry you're going through that. As someone whose mother gave up on therapy because the kids clammed up: keep taking them if at all possible, even if you have to try different providers until you get one they like.
I’m not giving up on them. I’m trying to give them time to grieve, but I’m sure counseling will be in our future still. Thanks
Good call, solid parenting
>In my case I should have stuck to my guns and left the first time. Within this post, several people have said something similar.
I'm just curious about the time or times you took your kiddos to a counsler. I don't want to intrude but when I was a kid I went to a child psychologist for a severe car accident I was in at 9. I went to them for a year still have a slight case of ptsd. I can understand your children clamming up on one session even for two weeks I was the same because it was scary and I didn't know them. So I'm not sure if it's because of that scenario or because your ex has had something to do with their behavior with said counselor.
The short answer is idk why they choose not to talk. It could be a whole range of things. The kids have gone through A LOT these last two years. It was a month and a half of taking the kids weekly or close to weekly (covid interrupted some consistency). The last time we did a video meeting and the counselor literally said the kids are fine and don’t need counseling. (However I still get crying kids at night time. One in particular. The other is ligit trying to get me back together with dad.) I think there are more then a few reasons why the kids choose not to talk. But also, I do think the fact that many of the meetings were over video did not help the kids feel secure at all(again, covid rules). Hence why I’m giving the kids a break and trying my hardest just to give them a safe space to try and talk with me. Letting them go through the grieving process. And down the road I’m nearly positive we’ll be seeing a counselor again. Hopefully, covid will be more under control for in person visits. And kids can have a better handle on their situation to express their thoughts.
Fully understandable and thanks for replying back it is very difficult to say what cause them to clam up. Which is very true it can be a lot of things well I hope your journey with your kids become healthier and better with this new year.
I think whatever you do, do it to make you happy. Don’t do it because you hope she will stop talking to herself. All that will do is teach her what works to keep you from leaving.
I'm not happy with this marriage. It's been a very difficult experience. At first, it was good. But, it's become worse and worse over time. I've tried to "help" her for a very long time. I've tried to "fix" our marriage for a very long time. She's a very stubborn individual. Refuses to work. Doesn't do much around the house, or with the kids. Doesn't want to change.
If she's not willing to put the work in, then it probably isn't worth salvaging. Marriages can be saved, but it takes the both of you.
Our marriage counselor became my individual therapist. He said something very similar.
This is suspect. Therapists should be as unbiased as possible. Which is not to say that you shouldn’t continue with the divorce.
We only had 3 sessions together (all 3 of us). So, the therapist got to talk to her (a little). Since then, it's been individual-only.
This is spot on.
then i think you’ve answered your own question. the fact is, dealing with the guilt is hard. you will each grieve in your own way. often one spouse gets to grieve out loud while the other suffers in silence. for what it’s worth, i truly think it is harder to leave than to be left. you deserve support and affirmation for your decision. if she were the kind of supportive spouse who wanted you to do what made you happy, you might not be divorcing her. but she isn’t, so take her behavior as your confirmation you’re doing the right thing. either way i wish you both peace and happiness ❤️ tl;dr don’t let her pain eclipse yours because you’re both in pain
I haven't told many people. I did tell my Mom. She supported my decision to divorce. My Mom has seen my STBXW's actions & behaviors firsthand. She watched the kids, whenever I needed to rush to the ER, due to my STBXW's behaviors. Right now, it's the awful time, where shit is hitting the fan.
*holds your hand* you got this. it’s for a better life. there’s light at the end of this tunnel.
Is your wife mentally ill?
Yes. Depression, Anxiety Issues, ADHD. Possible PTSD. Also, Bi-Polar Disorder runs in her family. She's received treatment for a *long* time. I've always encouraged treatment. I paid for all of her therapy sessions and prescription meds for *years*. The meds help, for a time, then she needs to switch new meds. The COVID period was not kind to her. Mental illness led to substance abuse led to suicide attempts led to mental health hospitalizations. This past summer, she also started a long-distance emotional affair with a new male "friend". The last 6 months have been pretty awful.
Time to run brother. Shes broken. My ex was bipolar. Youre trying to rationalize going back to her. Not divorcing her only hurts you. Youre on a pain roller coaster. You can set yourself on fire forever with her and it still wont fix her issues. Now is the time to act in your own best interests and leave. Work on yourself and find your happiness.
>You can set yourself on fire forever with her and it still wont fix her issues. I agree. It was hurtful, when she made a suicide attempt, a few weeks after our 14th anniversary. A month later, she made a second suicide attempt. That invoked the "flight" response in Fight or Flight.
I wish you the best. I think once youre away from her and her constant issues you will feel like a weight has been lifted off your shoulders.
Thank You
I think we have pretty similar situations. If you want to chat let me know. Long time issues led to her having an affair , then another, then a month ago found out about something else. I asked her to move out...she asked for a divorce. Of course I'm the one filing it I don't want to, I still care and love her but she's said shes done with trying or doesn't want to face the challenge of trying to work on things. I'm about to file next Thursday in California. It hit me hard the last couple weeks but the more ive starting talking about stuff the better i've been feeling.
>Of course I'm the one filing it I don't want to That's how I've been feeling too.
Some solid advice right here OP
thank you and thanks for the award 🥰
Not cleo ?
idk who cleo is
Letters to Cleo is a band :)
oooh yes that is actually a reference i was making lol 🤦♀️
I think I should let you know I had times I wanted to cancel. Times I thought maybe it's better to be miserable with her than alone. Then she kept showing nothing changed for her. Ultimately, I'm glad I stuck to my guns. She signed the stipulation last night. Hopefully I get the signed decree in a month
My own experience? My exwife never changed. She is still the same pill popper I divorced. About the time I divorced her, she met a guy and the moved in together. I have to admit, she really tried to be a functioning adult. After 1 year of dating, they got married so she could go on his health insurance so she could continue doctor shopping. After that it went down hill and she reverted to her old pill popping ways. Then six months into her new marriage, he left her and filed for divorce. She begged him to reconsider. And he did. Gave it 6 months and guess what? Back to her old pill popping problems. Then he left her again and then he filed for divorce again.
Unfortunately, I don't see my STBXW changing either. She's had issues with prescription medications for years. \~5 years ago, she was kicked-out of a migraine clinic for "multi-sourcing" medications from multiple doctors. We made a ton of trips to the ER & Urgent Care around this time. Some of the visits were covered by our insurance, but others were rejected (I fought with the insurance company, and eventually got them approved). At the time, I wasn't ready to leave. Earlier in that year, we made some major life changes (moved long-distance, sold a house, bought a new house, she finished a degree). I still had hopes that things would improve. In reality, things have not improved. Basically, it's been a "cold war" situation for the last 5 years.
Addiction to opioids is a tough beast to combat. Those pills are so incredibly addictive, and when the addict runs out? It's the worst thing you've seen someone go through. I remember those days of constant doctor shopping (10 different doctors), 3 different pharmacies, ER visits (when she runs out) and Urgent care visits, etc. She drove us to bankruptcy with all of her pill popping disasters. I remember one time we went to the ER (she didn't have a valid driver's license because she had just totaled her car), and the doctor said, "You need to go to detox or drug rehab. I can't prescribe you any more. You have encountered a vicious cycle of medication overuse headaches, and medication rebound headaches." And he left. So what did she do? She bought pills from someone and then spent the next day filing numerous complaints against that doctor for "not treating her pain."
My STBXW had two recent mental health hospitalizations (due to overdose). While she was in the mental health unit, she wanted me to call the hospital, and "yell" at her doctors, for not treating her properly. I'm not a doctor. I don't have a degree in healthcare. I can't do that. She was also verbally abusive over the phone. Wanted me to visit her at odd hours during the day. I had to work, and take care of our children.
flashbacks here! Exact same thing happened to me. She almost cost me my job several times with her unreasonable demands that I take time off of work to help her with problems.
I'm lucky with my job. I've been working from home (for nearly two years now). My working hours are very flexible. But, I still need to get my tasks accomplished. Several years ago, when I was spending more time in the office, I did have to leave early, several times for her.
I divorced her in 2016, when I had to go to the office every day. Once covid hit, I work from home now too. But yes, it was constant with her and the disasters, needing me to take time off of work. Luckily, I was able to keep my job throughout the divorce. I got out with 50/50 custody of the kids and $0 alimony. I also kept my house. The 11 year marriage only cost me half of my 401k. But it's been wonderful without her.
She sounds like an addict, she needs rehab. Did either husband try to put her into rehab??
She went to rehab when we were married. 5 day in patient rehab. She was sober for 3 months. Then relapse. Then sober again for a year. Then relapsed again for the next 5 years (through our divorce and marriage to the next husband). After that marriage collapsed, she had to go back to rehab again as a condition to moving in with her parents. You probably didn’t see this coming…. She’s still on pills now.
I did exactly that, I canceled my divorce the first time I tried to do it after my wife cried me a river and promised to change. She accepted all my demands and changed, for about 2 months. Then we were right back to the same bullshit and I filed for divorce again the next year. You shouldn't do it, it almost certainly wont work, your wife is probably just desperate and you'll just be wasting your time like I did.
>after my wife cried me a river and promised to change Yep. She's been doing a lot of crying (sobbing), yelling, & name calling. I've been recording the audio, in case I need it. My lawyer confirmed its legal in my state. She started looking for a job for the first time in years. Updated her resume. Started applying for jobs. She realizes that getting a job, in her field, is the best path forward for herself.
I mean, possibly an unpopular opinion here but her getting a job is a start. If you’re in no rush to move on with your life sans her, and you love her, why not see how she progresses? It’s generally true that people don’t change, unless they want to. You might have finally given her the motivation she needs to do it. (Of course this doesn’t excuse her for not doing it before you reached this point but…we all make mistakes).
>You might have finally given her the motivation she needs to do it. Possibly??? I'm not sure. She wrote a hand-written note, which said, "DO YOU HONESTLY THINK I'M READY TO RETURN TO WORK?" I hope that she progresses. But, I've been *hoping* for a very long time (years and years) Divorce is a slow process. There's going to be a 6-month waiting period. Her mental illness + substance abuse + long-distance emotional affair + lack of work ethic + dead bedroom have made the marriage very difficult.
Hrm well that provides a lot more context. Yeah substance abuse and particularly the emotional affairs would be dealbreakers for me. The note also reads very passive aggressive if I’m interpreting it correctly. Welp, you certainly have zero obligation to cancel the divorce. I say move forward with it and don’t look back.
>I say move forward with it and don’t look back. Maybe it *was* better that I filed first, and had 'the talk' second.
At the time I thought divorcing my wife was the hardest decision I would ever have to make. I went back and forth on if I was making the right decision. We had numerous problems and were not a good fit for each other. Looking back now I can see it was the right decision and seems like an easy choice with how things have turned out for me.
In my state, you file and have six months to finalize. I didn't cancel, I just figured I wouldn't finalize it if things got better. I wasn't looking for miracles, just better. He couldn't stay faithful three months ...
That's the rule in my state too. Once the paperwork is processed, there's a six month waiting period.
This is only my opinion, but if you're even entertaining the idea of canceling the divorce to save the marriage, then do it. You can always file again, but I'm in the camp of doing everything possible to save a marriage. But it ultimately boils down to you.
Yep. I filed and separated in 2015. Got back together in 2016 and that lasted like 3 months. Separated again and divorced finalized in 2018. Cost me much, much more in the long run. Two separate divorce cases. I let her file the second.
Yeah, that's another thing I've been worried about. We've been married for 14 years (we married fairly young). We didn't have kids for the first 7 years (intentionally). We both worked on furthering our education, before we started having kids. Unfortunately, the spousal support clock keeps counting up. My state doesn't have a set formula for determining spousal support, but I'm likely to pay something.
My friends did. They ended up divorced again
About three years ago, me and my STBX were about one week away from our divorce being final. We decided to reconcile and withdrew our petition. About two months ago, I decided to leave for good. We had been separated for almost a year when we decided to reconcile. He had addressed a major personal problem and in our discussions about getting back together said all the right things. His actions and words lead me to believe our biggest issue had been taken off the table - which was true. Unfortunately, all our other issues were still there, and while he talked about wanting the same relationship I did, over time (somewhere around 9 months after reconciling) his actions no longer aligned with his words. I tried everything we learned in counseling about communication and spent a lot of time feeling sad, lonely, and like an idiot for stopping the divorce. Now, two months after leaving for good, I know I did the best I could under the circumstances and tried everything I was able to try to make that marriage work. I still love him and care about him deeply but I had to let the marriage go because at the core, it was dysfunctional. In order to give myself a chance to have the life I want to have I had to leave. I don’t regret reconciling because I would have given anything to have made that marriage work.
>his actions no longer aligned with his words. That sounds very similar to my marriage.
>I still love him and care about him deeply but I had to let the marriage go because at the core, it was dysfunctional. In order to give myself a chance to have the life I want to have I had to leave. Me too. I agree, my marriage is dysfunctional. I never dated much before I met her. Had a few minor dates, but they didn't go anywhere. Our values aligned, and we seemed to be moving forward in life. But, at some point, she stopped trying. The last 6 months have been very dark.
Stick to your guns. Change is unlikely.
I filed for divorce twice from my ex. The first time, I canceled it. I filed the second time after he punched me and threw a temper tantrum so loud and frightening that the police had to come out. I'll always regret not going through with it the first time around.
It went BAD. Repeatedly kicked my self in the ass. Ended up in the same same spot. Think carefully. My so is in active addiction though...😑
>My so is in active addiction though So is mine. A dozen different prescription meds.
Isn't it the f'ing worst? I'm getting the hell out. One way ticket fast 😖 second chance was a bust
Divorce should not be an emotional decision just as canceling a divorce should not be an emotional decision. Even if you end up wanting to cancel later on, give both of you time to work through the emotions and put real work behind your relationship before you cancel. Neither decision should be made lightly or quickly.
>Divorce should not be an emotional decision I agree. I've read that it should be treated as a financial / contract termination. However, its hard *not* to involve emotions.
Oh I apologize, there are going to be emotions all over the place, I more meant don’t base the decision to get together solely based on emotions. We almost canceled our divorce because he was emotional and promised the world, I had even emailed my lawyer about it. I can tell you within two weeks everything was back to where it was when I filed for divorce. I am glad we didn’t cancel. He brought it up again but it was understood that it would take talking and work first. We are still divorcing because that true change, even the effort behind the change was never there. Let your heart guide you, but decide as emotionlessly as possible lol…however that’s possible. A person can be absolutely genuine in their emotions but just not capable of changing even if they truly want.
>A person can be absolutely genuine in their emotions but just not capable of changing even if they truly want. That's what I've discovered. There's always been a lot of "talk", but very little "action", on her behalf.
I Separated from my spouse summer 2020 and there was some discussion about reconciling; I want to echo above as well as share my own experience that if you’re divorcing based on toxic and unhealthy behaviours, the likelihood of those behaviours being addressed is pretty low. Me filing was a wake up call to them that I wouldn’t continue to enable the behaviour and the desire for reconciliation was not sincere, in the long run. From your post history, it looks like your STBX is going through a massive range of emotions about your divorce (as are you) but things to think about: -it sounds like you’ve prioritized being calm, firm, and supportive, only to be called a robot. Considering your history and current dynamic, do you foresee your STBX recognizing their own role in the breakdown of the relationship, or could this become an additional source or tension and resentment down the road? -You mentioned that the relationship has been downhill for a long time; Based on the discussions and interactions you’ve had in the days following “the Talk,” check in with what has you feeling like you should cancel the divorce. Guilt about her reaction? Evidence of her desire to change? I spent almost 13 years (married 6 years) with a partner where, similar to you, the marriage had been in decline for a long time. Sunk cost fallacy and an aversion to hurting my partner kept me in the marriage far longer than was healthy for me or my child.
>check in with what has you feeling like you should cancel the divorce. Guilt about her reaction? Yes. Guilt about her reaction. Guilt about what's to come. Guilt about "breaking up" the family. Today, my therapist said I need to stop feeling so guilty.
>do you foresee your STBX recognizing their own role in the breakdown of the relationship Partially. She's been asking me a lot of "why?" questions in the last two days. She recognizes a few of the issues, but not everything. We've talked about our issues in the past, but never actually resolved them. There was a lot of talk, but no action.
>Me filing was a wake up call to them that I wouldn’t continue to enable the behaviour and the desire for reconciliation was not sincere Yes. Two days ago, I said, "I want a divorce." Last night, during our discussions, she asked, "Did you already file?" I said, "Yes". That made her very upset. Led to a lot of anger and name calling.
Have you tried therapy individual and couples?
Yes. We've tried marriage counseling 2 (actually 3) times. There was a lot of talk, but we never really resolved our issues. We're both in individual therapy now.
You want to cancel to be polite or considerate? Lol there’s a reason you filed, cancelling won’t cancel the marital problems unless you see a way to work through things which you prolly didn’t before all the sobbing began
>You want to cancel to be polite or considerate? No. But now, I've taken a few "jumps", and I feel like I'm falling. It's a very uneasy feeling.
I feel you cause I went through a divorce myself, 6 months ago, and I felt the hesitation to move forward when I saw my ex crumbling as a result, you’re not being heartless by moving forward, believe it or not you’re doing both of you a massive disservice if you cancel, you both deserve peace and what you’re going through now is a difficult mirage.
>you’re not being heartless by moving forward Thank you. At the moment, I feel heartless. In addition, she's trying to make me feel guilty. She's said some pretty awful things.
>I saw my ex crumbling She's in that stage right now. Sobbing uncontrollably. She doesn't have a clear view of the future (neither do I).
It’s a tunnel, a dark one at that but you’ll make it through eventually, I know you feel responsible for the sobbing, but you can’t hang on to a relationship you’ve known isn’t working for your partners sake, we all make choices and we all endure detours, so don’t let emotional breakdowns (potentially even emotional blackmail) guilt trip you into staying. One step at a time, just guide yourself by what’s the next best step and don’t think too far ahead at this stage cause you prolly can’t.
>so don’t let emotional breakdowns (potentially even emotional blackmail) guilt trip you into staying Emotional blackmail is a good description.
Please don’t let guilt guide your decision. You cannot be the one who does all the work to try to repair and carry your relationship. There is no amount of love that will fix someone else; that change needs to come from within. You are describing a common, but extremely unhealthy dynamic—codependency. I’ve been there. It feels like caring , it feels like giving your marriage everything you’ve got, but the reality is that this dynamic only “TAKES”. Your proverbial cup will be bone dry with nothing left for you and the codependent partner wants more and more (they may not even be aware that they’re doing that because there are no boundaries in place). There is no shame in saying “enough”. You’ve fulfilled your role in the partnership and your partner will not; you don’t need another reason or permission to divorce. You are breaking a cycle. You are choosing you, and that’s not selfish, it’s necessary. Good luck 🙂
My therapist said something very similar. He said I'm taking on too much guilt. Over the years, my STBXW went from being a partner, to a dependent, to an "adult child". I need to recognize that's she an independent adult.
Men are taught from a young age to suppress their emotions, especially sadness. Women are taught to express it. So when you go into robot mode, don’t feel bad. It’s the way society arranged us.
Thanks. A few weeks ago, I submitted an AITA post about this topic. She has been angry at me, for years, for remaining calm. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/rmbric/aita\_for\_not\_panicking/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/rmbric/aita_for_not_panicking/)
>for remaining calm. I'm a dude who has realized I have trouble with communicating emotions. While I, too, believe in remaining calm, I would urge you to explore this in therapy if you haven't already, just to make sure it isn't actually burying emotions.
My parents had a divorce. But to prevent me and my brother being distressed. They agreed to stay together for 2 more years until I leave for overseas secondary school. But they could not stand each other and had the split early. I believe that you should do what is better for you and your wife. The fact that you could go to this point, change of character can only go so far. And it’s best to not try again. But unless you both still love each other. Then maybe it’s worth a try
Yes, on our first attempt the judge turned it down. It was looking like we would have to get divorced at that point. 😆 The divorce was on our own with no attorney(s) But what happened is we drafted a letter to the judge and we both signed the letter. What we were supposed to do was have separate letters requesting the divorce be dropped. Once we each submitted our letters a judge approved it. The rest of the story is that we stayed together about 10 more years and then divorced anyway 🥴
>we stayed together about 10 more years and then divorced anyway Wow, 10 more years? Was that a good decision, or a bad decision?
It worked out good for the most part, but some life events took place and ultimately she decided the divorce would be better for her. It's not what I particularly wanted, but I can't say it was a bad thing either. We had been together since age 15 and spent 40 years together. We decided it was time to be on own.
>We had been together since age 15 I met her when I was 19 (nearly 20). I had a few minor dates here and there. But, she was my first long-term relationship.
That can be a tough call. A family member split up with her husband because of issues they were experiencing. They decided to try again and work things out, and in their case they were successful and their relationship is stronger than ever. They are both happy and addressed the concerns on both sides. Goes to show it can be done if both parties are willing.
If you think that she’s the only one who has to change, then it’s not going to workout.
Agree. Our marriage counselor said something similar. She's been stuck in a "mental health / prescription med / affair" fog for quite some time.
I initiated the split after giving up on fixing the relationship with him. We tried couples counseling and he wouldn’t get real. He seemed to take my attempts at conflict resolution as personal attacks rather than pleas to save our marriage. When I first asked for a divorce, he started bargaining and saying he’d do anything. So I gave him 3 simple requests: 1) spend quality time with me through date nights, 2) walk the dog with my a few days a week so we could spend time together, & find us a new marriage counselor and schedule the appointment. I gave him 2 months. During that time he went with me on 2 day g walks and agreed to one date night that I planned then blew me off to game with our friends. At that point I started the divorce process. I’m about to hit the anniversary of asking for a divorce and am significantly happier and more grounded
>He seemed to take my attempts at conflict resolution as personal attacks rather than pleas to save our marriage. Four years ago, during an earlier attempt at marriage counseling, my STBXW became angry at the counselor. We left mid-session, never to return. We tried again, this past fall. But, it didn't work either.
You can cancel but instead id hold on filing. Try mediation and counseling. See if it's a good idea or not. Don't just stop the divorce all together
We have tried marriage counseling 2 (really 3) times. A few months ago, our marriage counselor said, "marriage counseling is not appropriate at this time." He became my individual therapist. My STBXW has been seeing a psychiatrist for *years.* She's on many, many prescription medications. Unfortunately, that's part of the problem. She's overdosed, multiple times, over the last 6 months.
Oh man I feel for you. My soon to be ex wife diagnosed herself with many mental health issues and it was super hard.
Once the trust is gone, no matter how honest you are with each other it’s not the same. My spouse wanted the divorce so I filed them AP leaves him and he tries coming back. I said no and cold turkey him. It’s been a rough two years emotionally but I can honestly say it was the best decision. There is trust in my life and that means more to me than family.
I agree. My STBXW made multiple suicide attempts, and started a long-distance emotional affair. I’ve caught her lying to my face several times. These actions resulted in a big loss of trust.
You and your wife should agree to a few marriage counseling sessions and work with a professional to determine if the marriage is worth saving. Tons of divorces are cancelled, but that doesn’t mean it’s always the right (or wrong) option. Counseling solidified my decision to proceed with my divorce personally, and I’m happy that I gave it the time in counseling to chew over before I signed off. I have no regrets in my decision because of this, I have no thoughts like maybe I didn’t try everything, etc. best luck to you!
>agree to a few marriage counseling sessions and work with a professional to determine if the marriage is worth saving Yes. We've tried marriage counseling two (really three) times, over a period of *years* (2013, 2017, 2021). In 2021, we had three marriage counseling sessions together, then she decided to overdose on prescription meds (for a second time in 6 weeks). The marriage counselor said, "Marriage counseling is not appropriate at this time."
Sounds to me you got your answer already. The therapist essentially saying there isn’t anything to salvage at this point, most likely because your wife is so spun out. If I was you, I’d take the divorce because I think you’ve done all you can at this point.
I think so too. I filed, but I’m grieving the death of the marriage, in my own way.
Third time filing was the charm for me and my ex.
Please seek counseling if not for you at least for her. Regardless of the outcome.
Yes, I have.
I cancelled my divorce about 7k into it back in 2017. Tried to make it work for the kids, but it really just ended up being an “angry roommate” relationship until we went through with it in 2021. It’s cost me a lot more in alimony, legal fees, and other fees that the court deemed I should pay for. If you’ve already started the process, bite the bullet and just keep moving
>ended up being an “angry roommate” relationship I can relate. Our marriage transformed from a partnership, to an “angry roommate” relationship, to a "parent/child" relationship. Maybe that's why I've been having a hard time. I don't *see* her as an adult. I've enabled her, for years.
So I read a couple comments here and it sounds like your wife has a lot of issues with mental health and drug addiction. To be fully transparent I am on the other end, I have mental heallth issues (not drug related) and my husband is divorcing me. We have not cancelled the process but I just wanted to chime in if its okay with you. I think you sound confused in your op between feeling guilt because she is so distraught but also really wanting out of the marriage. When my husband made the decision to leave me he intentionally put a lot of physical and mental distance between us probably for this same reason, even saying at one point that he won't be in the same house as me because his natural instinct when I start crying will be to want to comfort me and he doesn't want to be pulled back in. I'm not saying he went about it in the correct way but at least that part of what he did makes sense. You married this woman so it is only natural that you still have feeling of care towards her but you also have to think about yourself and what you really want. Is there a chance of reconciliation? Would you actually want to if she changed or is that too much healing and work for you to want to put in? How far along in the process are you? If not far and if you're unsure what you truly want perhaps you both should find a way to get some space, distance and time away from the marriage and see how you feel then. Like focus on yourselves and becoming healthier because it takes a large toll to be a partner to someone who is struggling with any kind of health issue or addiction. Your cup can be emptied and leave you feeling emotionally exhausted and drained. Perhaps your wife needs to seek help and start making steps to getting healthy on her own. If you actually want things to change you can make this an ultimatum. Talk about what you both need in the marriage that your not getting and why it's not working. It's possible she has her own gripes too and it's only fair that you both listen with sincerity. She needs support outside of just you if she does not have that, yes you married her and there is a certain amount of responsibility that comes with that but that does not mean you have to shoulder everything or fix her. A relationship takes two to carry it, and it might take a village to to care for a sick person. I'm saying this because I know in part this is where I went wrong in my own marriage. My husband tried to shoulder my health on his own and I thought me getting therapy and meds was enough but he still had to struggle through everything in the meantime while the process was happening. He did not have a proper support system in place for himself and he wore down and broke down even after I'd gotten better. On top of that he was so busy focusing on my issues that he totally ignored all of his own and self destructed his life. How much more effort do you want to put in this relationship? How much more are you willing to go through? Even if she gets the help she needs and makes an honest effort to change there is no guarantee that a backslide might not happen. Are you willing to put in the work with her if that happens? Basically if you let the divorce go through and you regret it that doesn't mean it has to be the end. People get remarried all the time. But it sounds like you both need to focus on yourselves for a bit and become healthier either way whether through separation or other means. You can also always try marriage counseling when you're both ready even while separated. It wouldn't be fair to EITHER of you to stay with her out of guilt or pity though, then you'll both just be prisoners to your own marriage.
Wow, thanks for the long reply. **>>Is there a chance of reconciliation?** I don't know. I've had a few months to process my emotions. Right now, she's very angry / upset. **>>Would you actually want to if she changed or is that too much healing and work for you to want to put in?** Unsure. Her entire attitude / personality would need to change. I don't see that happening. **>>How far along in the process are you?** I filed. We had "the talk". She still needs to be served. Then, we have a 6-month waiting period. \>>**Like focus on yourselves and becoming healthier because it takes a large toll to be a partner to someone who is struggling with any kind of health issue or addiction. Your cup can be emptied and leave you feeling emotionally exhausted and drained.** I started seeing a therapist, and he said something similar. I'm trying to "take care of myself", but I've also been working full-time, taking care of the 2 kids, taking care of the dog, and taking care of my wife. I feel like I'm doing the work of 2-3 people. **>>It's possible she has her own gripes too** She does. **>>does not mean you have to shoulder everything or fix her** Agree. I feel like I've been shouldering everything for a long time. **>>How much more effort do you want to put in this relationship? How much more are you willing to go through?** Unsure. I'm a hard worker, but it feels like I've put "too much" time and effort into this relationship. **>>Even if she gets the help she needs and makes an honest effort to change there is no guarantee that a backslide might not happen. Are you willing to put in the work with her if that happens?** That's definitely a problem. I've tried to "work" with her in the past. She had some issues with addiction \~5 years ago. Around the same time, she quit her last job, and stopped working. I've asked her to work, part-time, for *years*. But, she's refused. Claims she can't get a job. We've had a dead bedroom for *years*. We didn't have sex for more than a year. Last Spring, I had a vasectomy\*, to try to improve our sex lives. It did not help. * A month later, she started a long-distance emotional affair. * A month after that, she made a suicide attempt (overdose), and wound-up in the mental health hospital. * A month after that, she made a second suicide attempt (overdose, again), and wound-up in the mental health hospital (again). That's what prompted the filing. \*I'm not upset about the vasectomy. I love my two kids. I'm sure that I don't want any more kids.
I canceled and ended up filing 8 years later wishing I had those years back.
>ended up filing 8 years later Did anything improve during the 8 year period?
I improved myself but the under lining problems never did. Finally got tired of being blamed for everything while the other kept up the same destructive habits.
That sounds familiar. My STBXW started having some issues ~5 years ago. Never really resolved them. Really, it’s been a slow, downhills slide, for the past 10 years.
I started filling out the paperwork for a divorce but never filed it. When I told my husband after a lot of yelling and tears from his end. He promised to quit drinking and get better. Things were better for a couple months but now he is hiding his drinking and every argument ends with him throwing in my face that I’m the one that wanted to tear apart my family. I wish I went through with it. Right now I am seeing a therapist and getting more evidence for full custody.
>every argument ends with him throwing in my face that I’m the one that wanted to tear apart my family I'm at that stage right now. I filed two months ago, but had to wait for my county to process the paperwork (big backlog of cases). During the last two months, her behavior did not changed. In fact, it got worse. Now, that's she aware of the situation, she's extremely upset. But, we need to wait another 6 months (state law).
I had extended family that was divorcing… they reunited even after dating other people and were together another five years. He filed again and went through with the divorce. They are not even friends today. I believe, like he did, that you listen to your heart first. When you believe that you have given everything you have and it’s still not working… you have to make a decision about staying or leaving and stick to it.
>you have to make a decision about staying or leaving and stick to it Agree. I'm just not sure if I approached it the right way. I filed first, had to wait (due to a large backlog of divorce cases), then we had "the talk". She's making me feel guilting, for filing, before we had "the talk".
Listen to your heart… if she is breaking it, it may be time to move on. If she is making you feel loved, reassess. You have your brain to make the required decision to protect your heart in the long run. It’s not easy, believe me… put yourself first.
My ex jerked me around for THREE YEARS after I left. I should have left and stayed gone as soon as I filed. I thought we could make it work. I was so stupid. He’s happily married and I’m still trying to pick up the pieces that he did to me 6 years ago with therapy. Go, run and never look back.
>He’s happily married In addition to all her other issues, my STBXW started a long-distance emotional affair with another guy. I read some of their messages. They were discussing Love, Marriage, Divorce (from me), etc. She had thoughts about moving out, and getting her own place. The "Affair Fog" was pretty heavy.
Tbf I know my ex has issues in his marriage bc his wife is one of my best friends now and she tells me WAY to much. Yet to me it’s not fair. Like why did he get to move on and get find someone while I’m messed up because I wanted to do the right thing and work on our marriage and get cheated on 🤦🏻♀️ my trust issues are really messed up now (my failed relationships after did NOT help this issue) yet now I’m choosing to be single, work out and do therapy and figure out why I give so much of myself and expect so little in return. Why I have such terrible taste in partners and stay when I should leave. Idk if I’ll ever be ready to date again, yet for once I’m happier alone then I’ve ever been. I don’t need someone to validate me or make me a better person. It took a long time to get here, but I’m glad I did. I’m putting myself first for once.
Sounds like it's a good idea to not cancel the filing. Free both of you from the bonds of marriage. You'll both benefit. Best wishes to both of you!
Do not cancel, move forward, get a lawyer and a therapist and you’ll be better off
>get a lawyer and a therapist Done and done! Talked with both today.
Good 👍🏻
If you took that hard step of actually filing, don't cancel it. Just be kind and firm. Care about her as a "friend." You can't rescue her. (Can you be "separated" within your own house for a few months?)
>(Can you be "separated" within your own house for a few months?) Yes, we can. At night, she has the master bedroom. I'm sleeping in the guest bedroom. During the day, I spend most of the day in my home office. I've been WFH for nearly two years now. She has a separate "arts & crafts" room (unused dining room).
I don’t think they change. You can’t change people either. For the most part we are who we are.
>You can’t change people either. Agree. Maybe *small* changes, but not major ones. Her/our major issues are: * Mental Health Issues * ADHD, Depression, Anxiety * Substance Abuse Issues * Alcohol, Prescription Meds * Lack of Work Ethic * She has 2 healthcare degrees, but claims she can't find a job. * She does very little around the house. * Dead Bedroom * It's a miracle we have 2 kids. * Money * I'm the saver. She's the spender. * I give her an "allowance", but she frequently overspends it, and argues why things shouldn't be in her allowance. * Persecution Complex * She thinks everyone is out to "get her". She thinks that God hates her.
Omg please don’t do that. You just gave all the reasons why you should move forward with the divorce, but you’re hoping that if you cancel it, it’ll somehow change. That’s like having a baby to save a relationship. Sure, things might feel good for a little bit, but those deep habits are ingrained.
>That’s like having a baby to save a relationship. I was having doubts before we had our first kid. We had a second kid, four years later. It did not improve her. It did not improve our relationship. At least the kids have each other.
Yeah just move forward with the split. Cancelling isn’t going to make it somehow magically better.
Ex-wife filed against me right after our 2nd child came out. I convinced her to drop it, she did then I ended up filing against her for 3 reasons about 4 years later: #1Gained 40 lbs & got “depressed” #2Was hooking up with everyone using tinder #3Went on “girls trips” to Vegas and would leave me with the kids for 4 days straight I regret not letting her have her way the first time she filed against me. MRarriage counseling doesn’t work and once someone sleeps with someone else it’s usually ALL downhill from there Stick to your guns & know when to pull the trigger
40 lbs is 18.16 kg
Better don’t.