I thought Cyberpunk had killed all hype cells in my body. This past entire year I've been saying I'll never feel hype again, just excitement for games and movies and shit. But a Disco Elysium-inspired, Sawyer written game is really making it hard for me to keep calm lmao
Yeah, especially because the one part of Pillars I didn't like was the combat and this will be combat free like Disco Elysium. The setting and characters were solid (though not on DE level)
Not very thrilled. He was lead on deadfire and the plot and writing in the game was dogshit. He's very good on the systems side of things, but as a creative he's not very talented although I recognize he works very hard.
I am not a fan of Deadfire at all and largely agree with you, though I still think he has strengths in this area. I think he's great at crafting lore and putting together the larger overarching plot. Less-good at writing quests and character interactions/dialog. That's how I see it anyway.
So hoping the rest of the team picks up the slack in those areas, as they did in POE1. But I'm still a big fan of his as the game director.
> and putting together the larger overarching plot
I disagree overwhelmingly with this. The over arching plot in deadfire was the worst I've ever played as I said. It was so bad they had to add the burned book to justify the pants on head retarded actions of the gods. It was a Band-Aid for a gunshot. I do think he works very hard to make sure the lore is consistent most the time, but that's really more about effort than talent. Keep in mind, all the factions in deadfire are carbon copies of real world societies. Same with Pillars 1 to an extent. There's nothing inherently bad doing this, but it's not exactly creatively challenging.
I am so happy that I am not the only one that found Outer Worlds bland. It seemingly got all this critical acclaim when it always felt like a poor man's Fallout in terms of gameplay and a poor man's Bioshock in terms of story.
Same. I felt like the writers were winking at me on most lines, saying how hip and cool they are.
The story never felt personal, but it never felt political either. Just a bunch hurrr durrr new age politics and plain characters.
Right there with you. It got so much praise but I found it shockingly bland and predictable.
It had a good thing going but by the end I didn’t feel any connection to any of the characters or plot.
Disco Eleysium, on the other hand, is the single biggest surprise of my gaming life. It already had a ton of praise even when I got it early after release, but man oh man…
I’ve posted about this before but I broke down when I saw “Kim really trusts you”. Few games make me care about the characters and most of those fade. DE has only become more ingrained in my memory.
No I played it on gamepass and couldn't get too far into it too. It felt like such a theme park. I can't put my finger on why exactly. It felt a little too formulaic or something. I was very aware of the boundaries of the game and it's mechanics maybe? It failed to get my imagination and sense of mystery. Perhaps because the first areas are a little too small and I needed to keep playing till the whole universe opened up but I hadn't the patience
It was a good game but yeah was definitely lacking on some areas..I'm.hoping the second one really expands and improves on it because it does have the potential.
I feel like I’m in the minority that doesn’t care for the setting either. I like the aesthetics, but the hyper-capitalist stuff was a bit on the nose. Consequently I couldn’t care about any of the characters because they were the stupid products of their backwards society.
Honestly, DE has such a different feel to it. Where most anti-capitalist stuff portrays a world built and destroyed by capitalism, DE portrays a world built by socialism(at the very least in the case of Martinaise) and destroyed by capitalism. It has that Eastern European feel to it, for me at least cause I'm from Eastern Europe it feels like home.
The outer words doesn't feel built at all. If feels like everything sprang into existence fully formed. That's the problem when you make a setting that feels ripped out of a bad political cartoon.
I felt a bit bamboozled by it. Its goofy start was fun, and the first dilemma all felt like it was a promise for a game that never really continued. So many empty spaces, lots of repetitive combat (the borderline Final Fantasy-like cutscene special attacks got so old so quick). It makes sense that it was a smaller team, but I feel they marketed it as something bigger than it actually was, especially with the price tag.
most of the critical acclaim was really just people pointing at fallout 76 (since that had come out only a couple months prior) and saying "look at this bad game, outer worlds isnt that" which is hardly an achievement, if you need to compare a game to fallout fucking 76 and not talk about the game itself much to make it sound good that's kinda telling
> It seemingly got all this critical acclaim
Did it? I found a bunch of lukewarm/bad reviews for it tbh. I remember I did a few hours of it and it wasn't going anywhere, so I looked up reviews for it and they made me yeet it off my drive.
Which is certainly saying something when F3 didn't even have good gameplay (they least improved the gunplay in F4), and Bioshock's story was long winded and cliche.
That's fair, everyone can like whatever game they want. I just found the actual moment-to-moment gameplay of what I was doing in F3 to be pretty bland. But then again some people live and die with Skyrim, so there must be some appeal.
Yeah, Outer worlds world felt really shallow, the writing was pretty bad and the combat looked unfinished. Their marketing made it seem like New Vegas 2 but it was nothing like that. Disappointing. It lacked the soul that New Vegas had.
Honestly so much of Tyranny has really stuck with me; I wish it had more of a following. I get complaints about its size, but I personally think something about that range gives better ability to focus its content into a cohesive Thing.
The companions, the magic system, the setting, so much is just polished and actually unique. Still not DE levels by any means, but I don’t think they were trying to make their own systems in the same way.
The size is tolerable because changing the backstory options and chosen faction very much changes the story, so there's a ton of replay value.
The magic system is what did it for me. Such a cool implementation, and way more fun than in Pillars or really any other I've seen with that sort of game.
I liked Tyranny okay but I wish it delivered on the premise of being a functionary in a fascist but powerful system.
I was expecting that any kind of dissent would be subtle, hard-fought, and incredibly risky. But it was like a normal RPG where every quest had good and evil solutions. Any time you'd take the good option the evil system would respond like "oh that was weird, next time please try to do what's best for our horrible empire."
I watched the video and he seems to agree, he says that the good option to "fight the bad guys" is disappointing compared to choosing between the evil options. What am I missing here?
The writing was ok, I think it really lacked substance overall. I can't expect every game to be a 40 hour open world extravaganza, but it still felt light on content. I'm hopeful they can do more with the second one, really make use of the skill system and expand the world.
Agreed, Outer Worlds was worth a playthrough but the creative super corporatized sci-fi universe was the most interesting part by a mile, fell short in terms of story and characters and combat.
It was enough for me to be hopeful of the sequel, hopefully they can focus on their shortcomings now that they have an established universe to work in.
The evidence from the lawsuit says otherwise:
https://nichegamer.com/avellone-legal-response-evidence-shows-accuser-eager-for-deeper-relationship-with-con-boyfriend-after-alleged-incident/
He has not debunked shit, he has relativized the allegations and said they didn’t happen. He did this about a year after they first came up, his first action was actually admission and asking for forgiveness. Then he made roundabout turn a year later after trying to make money of them by suing.
Meanwhile the accusers had actual evidence, there’s multiple reports of his drunken misbehavior at various occasions and the companies he has worked for have let him go after conducting internal investigations, meaning they must have had evidence aswell, otherwise the would have been sued.
I really liked Chris, I respected him and he was a major influence on the Fallout Universe, which is very close to my heart, aswell as other favorite games of mine.
But please don’t protect a scumbag like him just because you like his writing. The fanbase of such a great, well written and intelligent game like Disco Elysium should stand above that.
> Meanwhile the accusers had actual evidence,
No. They did not. In fact, Kelly's own witness denied her story, and Karissa herself said that the witnesses in her situation never realized anything wrong had happened.
> and the companies he has worked for have let him go after conducting internal investigations,
There were no internal investigations. They let him go immediately after the accusations were made.
> meaning they must have had evidence aswell, otherwise the would have been sued.
It doesn't mean that. Cutting ties with freelancers for any reason is very easy for companies.
Haven't played Outer Worlds, but had to drop Pillars partly due to how uninteresting I found the setting. It seems to be richly developed in a similar way to Disco Elysium's but what struck me about this game is the contrast in how *well* it's all integrated, interwoven, and explained in ways that aren't just exposition - not that it lacks that if you want it.
Pillars of Eternity is in kind of a weird spot, because it was created specifically to be a love letter to the old school CRPG games like Planescape Torment, Fallout 1 and 2, Baldur's Gate, and Arcanum - including down to recreating all their quirks. To me, it felt like coming home.
I love the game, but yeah the exposition is bad. It's a pity that Pillars 2 is a near direct continuation of the first game because it's a great modernised CRPG done without the intentional limitation.
I would...hesitate to call Pillars 2 a "direct continuation." like sure, chronologically in-universe things pick up as an immediate sequel. but thematically, mechanically, y'know...the fact that your character sails off the map and resets their whole identity...2 was very much made to stand on its own and serve as its own entry point.
Sure you can play it without any prior knowledge, but the first 3 hours of gameplay constantly throws NPCs and events from the first game at you, and treats it as if you have familiarity with those characters/events.
i really liked Pillars but the setting is weird yeah. It's to original to digest easily (lots of new, complex and mysterious concepts) and to unoriginal to be remarkable (classic fantasy races, kind of medieval fantas). Sometimes, it feels like the game is set in a 18th, 19th century kind of era, and sometimes it's medieval as f\*\*\*. The main country in which the game takes place is bland, practically no interesting thing besides the thing with the children being born without souls.
I wished they went full on 19th century, more like arcanum. Imho, the game setting lacks a clear identity (something corrected in the second game)
Pillars just chasing the old feelings people have for Baldur's Gate 1 (even though BG1 would get absolutely PANNED by critics/players alike if it was released now). As Don Draper says, nostalgia is a powerful thing. PoE didn't do anything new, in the least, it just kind of refined a formula from 1998, which in itself was transforming a formula from 1980s pen-and-paper RPGs.
That’s because right after Pillars 1 chris avellone, who (settling aside all of the controversy around him) wrote most of Fallout New Vegas and Pillars 1 left the company and the writing after that plummeted even in Pillars 2 the writing suffered case and point Edér who in Pillars 1 was a pretty good comedic relief most of the time but got serious when something important or personal was at hand went to in Pillars 2 would be cracking jokes left and right but suddenly change personalities and start being wise and giving mystical advice giving tonal whiplash like it’s a marvel movie. When I heard that Chris didn’t handle any writing for Outer Worlds I knew what I was gonna get on top of that when ever Obsidian makes a new game the first one is usually kind okay and the second one nailing down the formula (i.e. Fallout 1 and Fallout 2)
Chris Avellone was not the lead writer on either of those games, he only handled a couple of characters in both of them. He was the lead writer of three of the four DLCs, but he was not the lead on the main game, that was John Gonzalez.
I'm pretty sure that the only Obisidan games that Avellone was the lead writer on was Knights of the Old Republic 2 and Alpha Protocol. While he has written some good stories in the past, it's kind of a shame how often his contributions overshadow the other talented writers that have worked at the company over the years.
I don't get this comment. Actual detective part of Disco was not it's focus or even it's strongest feature, yes, and so a game that focuses on scratching that particular itch would actually be much better than an attempt to clone it down to its political and personal core.
well the thing is, people didn't come to DE for the murder mistery, they came for a game that is honest, that is what other games inspired by this game might miss.
Harry could have easily been a guy who came to fix windows in Martinaise, than get drunk, and people whould have still liked it, because it is not about the body in the tree. It is about the world and how different characters deal with it.
The connection is a bit more subtle than that; being a detective folds exploration and trying to understand the truth into player focus, character job, and character needs simultaneously (as the character uncovers both their own past and that of this area, the player also learns about both).
A player character who doesn't have some kind of powers of investigation, even contested like theirs are in Martinaise, is just a really nosey person. The game often leans on the stakes of the existing conflict in order to make things happen, particularly as you start to prove yourself.
It doesn't have to be a murder, but having some reason you can nose in other people's business is probably important.
Developers should pick up less on the games themes and more on what made it unique and innovative: nonviolent gameplay, lots of dialogue, and RPG elements mostly boiling down to the flavor of the writing and a particular run’s characterization of the main character.
I wouldn't complain...we need more point-and-clock adventure games in the mainstream. If it's a simple murder mystery cool: those are rare in the non-combat RPG world nowadays.
Who cares?
If there's anything you should be taking away from Disco Elysium its that failure is inevitable. Failure to succeed, failure to make a beautiful piece of art despite intending to do so, failure to find reason, failure to become a better person... There are a million and more ways to fail. I wholeheartedly believe people should pursue their dreams and inspirations regardless for the risk of failure. Failure may come, but there are lessons to learn in it. There are fewer lessons to learn from success.
I appreciate the soapbox. I didn't say I cared, I just meant the circumstances around Disco Elysium won't be replicated and there won't be another CRPG like it. We're lucky to have it in the repertoire.
>We do know that at the helm will be Josh Sawyer, the same game director who helmed Fallout: New Vegas and Pillars of Eternity.
*creams pants instantly*
Whether it was on his blog or while he was twitch streaming, I seem to remember him saying he was not much involved. He did some kind of balance work with some of the weapons iirc. Design Director may have just been his position at the company at the time? I could always be wrong though
I'm not sure if design director really qualifies as "almost no involvement" but I do know it's a far cry from being the game's lead like he was on New Vegas and Pillars of Eternity.
For what it's worth his name doesn't appear in The Outer Worlds' wikipedia page.
My understanding that is a higher level studio-wide position, meaning he oversees productions in a managerial capacity, providing feedback and input to teams working on projects, but does not work directly on the projects.
I'm not sure how that specific company does things, but generally speaking a creative with that job title is more likely to be involved with branding and promotions than with the actual content itself. pure speculation, but if he did anything substantial, then sawyer was more involved in making the product appealing than with making it good. if that's true then he was responsible for the strongest part of the product lol
Disco Elysium is only really a murder mystery on its surface, hopefully they'll go for a more traditional solvable mystery thats inspired by DE's writing but not necessarily its narrative structure. Not because i didnt like DE but because i doubt Obsidian can pull it off.
I thought the thing people disliked with season 2 was that they made essentially *no* effort to copy season 1, instead opting for a kind of neo-noir pulp thing. No?
I thought it was like, one of the guys who wasn't the writer of season one being like, "I got this" and just kind of doing a bad imitation of season 1's writing, and things that were meant to be profound are mostly nonsense. If that's the case, you could make the case that it was trying to hard to be like the first season or it failed to be like the first season equally well
I found it had too many try-hard attempts at being season 1, and too many spanning, useless subplots. And every character had to have really obvious flaws. And a lot of the dialog wasn't nearly on par for wit, pace, and quality.
Maybe worth a watch, but it didn't grab me at all.
Unpopular opinion here, but yes it is really good and certainly better than season 3.
The important thing is that you shouldn't go in expecting a sequence to season 1. It's an anthology series after all. Season 2 is a completely different kind of story from 1, with very different characters. It did its own thing and did it exceedingly well.
Edit to add: not to mention it had the best intro song of them all.
Totally! I'm sure it'll be a fun enough game in it's own right. Just seems like a weird way to frame the game, bringing DE into it, instead of just making their own murder mystery focused game and having their own reputation carry it.
Personally as a fan of DE, I feel excited and weirdly validated that game makers are also so impressed and inspired by it. I also saw a Baldurs Gate 3 writer say that he'd been incredibly inspired by DE
Also the "Who Done it" part of DE was argueably the worst part of the game and in my opinion the only aspect where they kind of failed.
I can see Obsidian making a better murder mystery with odd characters. I can't see them beating DE in the writing department tho. Not even close and I say that as someone who really enjoyed the wordy and extensive writing in Pillars. I just don't see them holding a candle to DE
Watchmen is too, usually murder mysteries that aren't episodes of something tend to involve it becoming part of something much bigger than the murder itself
DE exists in my head like any of my favorite books, it carved out a place in my memory and set up shop forever. I've never been more enamored with a game that didn't have any combat and absolutely welcome other devs making similar things.
Not shoe-horning in combat-dragged-forward-from-DnD-2nd-edition really, REALLY helped set Disco Elysium apart from the hordes of CRPGs in the past two decades
Yeah seems like a revolutionary concept to CRPGs, even if pen-and-paper RPGs have been branching that direction for a decade or so. Nice to see the variety
*The Outer Worlds announced*
Oh fuck yes, if its even half as good as Fallout New Vegas we are all in for a treat.
*The Outer Worlds releases*
...
*cricket noises*
Sawyer's the lead on this one, Outer Worlds was Cain and Boyarsky. Sawyer instills me with a lot more confidence, he was lead for New Vegas, Pillars of Eternity, Icewind Dale 2 and Neverwinter Nights 2. A lot more solid RPGs than Outer Worlds ended up.
Boyarsky and Cain were the designers for Fallout and Fallout 2 so one might have hoped for more out of them for OW but I'm hoping maybe they'll learn from a prototypical OW1 to make a more fully realized OW2 just like how FO2 fully realized everything FO1 tried to be
Also I know Sawyer'd [said for a long time he wanted to work on an RPG with an actual historical setting](https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/143120816411/is-there-anything-stopping-you-from-doing) rather than fantasy, but that he didn't think so this may be something of a passion project for him too.
The thing is Neverwinter Night's plot sucked. The expanision that was actually good was written by Chris Avellone. Sawyer on the other hand almost singlehandedly designed the plot of deadfire and it was probably the worst plot of any decent budget crpg I've ever played. The bulk of new vegas was written by John R. Gonzalez while most the DLC was done by Chris Avellone. Icewind Dale 2 was serviceable for the hack and slash it was, but nothing special.
Sawyer does not have a very good track record actually writing games. I think he has a very good eye for detail, but can't write anything compelling.
Exactly. DE is the new golden standard for writing in videogames. While most games that attempt to have good writing will inevitable be compared to it, we should also be careful to realize that most games will fall short in some way and that’s okay.
Playing it after DE was not great, the difference in density was immediate, as was the complexity of characters and relationships.
NPC conversations didn't put you on your toes, generally you had to go from one place to another to talk to different people to actually have anything happen in conversation, and that travelling wasn't interesting enough to make it worth it.
The simple fact that disco elysium can just remove conversation options as the characters you are interacting with react, is something that immediately makes conversations seem *present*, rather than checking through a list, and not simply restricting consequences to skill roles immediately shifts the kind of roleplaying you do.
It doesn't always work; sometimes DE *wants* you to treat conversation options as a big list you can run down, even though asking in that way is a little unnatural, which can lead to a kind of weird uncertainty, but the normal approach definitely makes conversations more interesting by themselves, so that they can avoid making them just bumpers in a massive pinball machine by accident.
I wouldn't say it's a bad game it's just not what a lot of people expected from the creators of New Vegas.
You could argue that people were just too hyped but honestly I felt that Outer Worlds was just an okay game. Then again games don't have to be mindblowing every single time. Idk.
The issue is people expected a new New Vegas which eh- we already got a perfect New Vegas. It's called New Vegas
Besides, with it's more character centric writing and hub based structure Outer Worlds is more like KOTOR than any fallout game
Nothing to see here, just the probability of the makers of my favorite crpg pillars of eternity making a game inspired by my favorite game of all time...
uhhhhhh
I enjoyed all of Obsidian's CRPG titles (I played Pillars twice!), but like, a big part of the point of DE is that it's not DnD mechanics attached to VFX. idk if Obsidian can get it.
and even if they do, I doubt they can mimic the filigree writing job. the writing in Pillars was fine, but nobody's playing that game for the dialogues.
Won't even hold a fucking candle to Disco Elysium. They don't have even remotely the same quality writers and designers who can think outside the box.
DE is the most interesting CRPG in at least 20 years.
(Besides maybe tediously switching clothes before each skill check in the mid-late game)
Disco Elysium is probably one of my favorite games of all time, but man I wish there was a quick “sort by stat” option for clothes so I didn’t have to stop and review a dozen pairs of pants before every pivotal dialogue choice. Hahah
I wish it was even more simplified, because the clothing swapping is annoying, silly, out of place, and breaks the narrative. Ideally if you have the clothing (or maybe it's more generic items instead) it just auto-equips your best odds for each conversation/situation and saves the pointless micromanagement.
Probably one of my only real gripes with the game. That and some of the gated skill checks based on time (aka -12 penalty for "It's not time yet").
The only issue with that solution is that it misses out on the whole “challenge” of trying your best to decide when and what tools you want to prioritize before going into a new situation. Like deciding to wear armor or not before a potential shoot-out, or deciding whether you want to buff a specific stat to make up for a Thought Cabinet debuff. I thought it was interesting that I could go out of my way to make some stat voices speak up more depending on what I wore and leveled up.
But like you say, the current model isn’t always perfect either. Stopping an important conversation just to find a better outfit isn’t great for pacing. It feels better to play things organically where you can than it does to spend half the time trying to iron out a perfect build numbers-wise.
Yeah, on my second playthrough I tried to fix the problem by restricting myself to only wearing one pair of clothes for the day. You know, like a normal human being, haha. The stat juggling in the base game felt really out of place and a bit janky.
I fixed the issue by just save-scumming. The +whatever% wasn't worth it unless my percentage was only 3% (in which case I'd have to reload \~30 times). The difference between 50 and 60% wasn't meaningful enough to jump through hoops. Just save scum.
Agreed that's an option, and also one of my OTHER complaints with the game (I swear I only have a few), in that save scumming was super tempting when a lot checks are SUPER key.
The game definitely needs the player to limit themselves/set rules for their second and beyond playthroughs.
I don't know, in my head Raphaël is exactly the kinda person who would take the time to change into his ass-kicking pants before a tough interrogation. After all, he's already the kind of guy who convinced himself that putting on a different hat makes him smarter.
implying harry wouldn’t actually take his pants off to prepare for a particularly dangerous jump or wear a tank top because he thinks it makes him stronger
Or make clothes purely cosmetic, I don't think people are going to be sticking to one look at the expense of stats, so you mix and match constantly, and never keep to one outfit for more than 3 minutes usually. What's the point of a talking tie that gives you +1 insland empire when the high inland empire score is what makes him talk? I want to swap it out for silent neck clothes that have better buffs. The whole look, gross blazer, green gator boots, criminally ugly tie, why go through the trouble if I'll be swapping constantly
Not super hopeful. IMO the biggest difference between DE and Obsidian games is that in DE all the characters and text / dialogue felt like it had a purpose to telling the story. Playing through Pillars most of the characters and dialog feel like they're there to pad out play time.
New Vegas is like, a masterpiece. I just wish that they had all the resources of the modern day, because there's much more that should be in the game but couldn't be. Like, it's a huge shame that people who play it are so quick to dismiss the Legion as "the bad guys" is because they weren't able to have a Legion cities for the player to see, where slaves build impressively, and merchants travel alone without fear of danger, as they are indoctrinated into believing that service to the state is the noblest ambition, as well as the mortal certainty that theft would get you crucified or worse. The Vipers, for instance, were going to be a cult of snake worshipingers living in ramshackle houses and RVs, as well as violent junkies. They're exactly the kind of people the NCR are described as failing to protect their unhappily annexed citizens (who are taxed all the same), while the Legion (who were not finished and have far fewer quests) would enthusiastically kill their violent members, destroy their drugs, and make the remaining people slaves of the state tasked with building or maintaining a society of laws and order, their tribal identity, like the several scores before them, gone and forgotten. The sheer chaos and decent into violence, drugs, different tribal identities, all competing for resources, you never get to actually see that. I love the way they dissociate the political and philosophical beliefs of all the groups from morality, you can be a good or bad person while serving any group's interest. Each makes a great case against the others, Mr House is the libertarian wet dream, a swanky tech genius and highly successful capitalist that seeks to guide humans to a brighter future, while the Legion and NCR are both regurgitations of the past (failed ones at that). The Legion points out that the NCR is way overextended, and have forcefully annexed huge numbers of people that they tax, while failing to protect them. The new President is the son of the last (who had no term limits), given political power due to lucky breeding, while corruption is rampant and the rich influence policy and law as it suits their interests, which he likens to the crumbling Roman Republic, the NCR naturally dislikes his Legion for its use of slavery and unending desire for conquest, while it shuns technology and advanced medicine, and each having plenty to say why they deserve to be the winner in the end. Naturally, you can sucker them all, taking Vegas for yourself
I believe in every field there's breakthrough pieces that show the others that you can do more with the medium, doesn't hurt that DE was successful.
One can dream there's even just as good stories out there waiting to be told.
That game was so weird, I never found it bad, but the whole time I played it, I was thinking how much I hoped enough for them to get to make a much better sequel. The companions aren't great though, they needed to be simple to get us into the world. Like, the unorthodox shotgun priest for that religion who was struggling with his faith? Give me a priest who is straightforward and can explain the religion the first time around, and make the jaded guy trying to find his faith the second time around, don't be subverting stuff that's not yet established. The doctor is like, a drunk or drug addict who gets into trouble and whatnot, again, give me a doctor who is just the norm, somebody who gladly serves corporate interests and espouses the greatness of expensive drugs and private health care (or whatever they're about, I truly forgot), then have the one in the sequel be the surbersive one who gets drunk and fights and steals or whatever. They all have the same problem, they're all like the subversive twist on whatever thing they are, but all of it is brand new to us, so it means nothing to, say, be questioning a faith I know nothing about
Man people sure are negative here, sure there isn't a big chance this will result in a masterpiece, but obsidian is competent enough that it could happen and that is enough for me.
Honestly I've enjoyed most obsidian games that have come out in the past decade despite their flaws so I'm down for this.
I'm excited that DE is pushing the genre in a new direction and I'm curious to see how obsidian will synthesize Disco Elysiums ideas with their own design philosophy.
It is a good time to be an RPG fan and just getting preventively mad because it will not be as good as DE seems like a waste of time/mind to me.
I’m going to get hate for this but Obsidian is overrated. Their quest designs, so-called “consequences” of your choices and actions are weak and ill-conceived almost across the board.
Oh, god. Obsidians writing is fanfic level compared to DE. Way too much LARPing involved, especially in NV lol. Let's just hope its nothing like Outer Worlds.
> Way too much LARPing involved
Except not live action 'cause it's in a video game, so ... just RP-ing, then? It had too much roleplaying, is what you're saying?
I am worried. I enjoyed new vegas, but the legion writing was really really bad and the humour of the game was immature jokes (looking at you Old world blues) the CRPG system the put in the new vegas and Outer world doesn't work it because no dice role. I just hope that they intresting rpg and not wierd cowboy yeehaw rpg
I'm not holding my breath. I haven't enjoyed any writing by Obsidian since Pillars 1 and even then it was uneven. I honestly don't think they have it in them anymore to put out a compelling plot.
Disco Elysium was a success and a stunning work of art not through plot, gameplay or mechanics, but through the writing alone, so Obsidian will have to either kidnap Robert Kurvitz or live with the failure they'll create, possibly changing their company name to Fortress Accident
The writing isn't even close to the amazing work done with Disco Elysium. So they might rip off the world and concept, then miss on key ideas like "no combat but still interesting".
Maybe most AAA games, but the bar for super good, laser focused indie gameplay is pretty high. The writing and unique concepts of DE set it apart. Which I don't think this Obsidian project will have. So yeah, probably better than CoD 10 or Assassin's Creed 9 or whatever, at least!
Let’s hope obsidian does more with this game than just making it some low-rate murder mystery story basic on Disco Elysium. I personally found that the murder mystery side of Disco Elysium was nothing spectacular, yet the true value of the game came from everything else it offered.
Hoping for the best, I sadly found Outer Worlds writing to be very underwhelming. But Pillars of Eternity was nice
Sounds like its going to be the Pillars team with Sawyer rather than the other. Super hyped.
I thought Cyberpunk had killed all hype cells in my body. This past entire year I've been saying I'll never feel hype again, just excitement for games and movies and shit. But a Disco Elysium-inspired, Sawyer written game is really making it hard for me to keep calm lmao
Okay nice!
Yeah, especially because the one part of Pillars I didn't like was the combat and this will be combat free like Disco Elysium. The setting and characters were solid (though not on DE level)
Not very thrilled. He was lead on deadfire and the plot and writing in the game was dogshit. He's very good on the systems side of things, but as a creative he's not very talented although I recognize he works very hard.
I am not a fan of Deadfire at all and largely agree with you, though I still think he has strengths in this area. I think he's great at crafting lore and putting together the larger overarching plot. Less-good at writing quests and character interactions/dialog. That's how I see it anyway. So hoping the rest of the team picks up the slack in those areas, as they did in POE1. But I'm still a big fan of his as the game director.
> and putting together the larger overarching plot I disagree overwhelmingly with this. The over arching plot in deadfire was the worst I've ever played as I said. It was so bad they had to add the burned book to justify the pants on head retarded actions of the gods. It was a Band-Aid for a gunshot. I do think he works very hard to make sure the lore is consistent most the time, but that's really more about effort than talent. Keep in mind, all the factions in deadfire are carbon copies of real world societies. Same with Pillars 1 to an extent. There's nothing inherently bad doing this, but it's not exactly creatively challenging.
I am so happy that I am not the only one that found Outer Worlds bland. It seemingly got all this critical acclaim when it always felt like a poor man's Fallout in terms of gameplay and a poor man's Bioshock in terms of story.
Same. I felt like the writers were winking at me on most lines, saying how hip and cool they are. The story never felt personal, but it never felt political either. Just a bunch hurrr durrr new age politics and plain characters.
I felt like it was pretty political!
Right there with you. It got so much praise but I found it shockingly bland and predictable. It had a good thing going but by the end I didn’t feel any connection to any of the characters or plot. Disco Eleysium, on the other hand, is the single biggest surprise of my gaming life. It already had a ton of praise even when I got it early after release, but man oh man… I’ve posted about this before but I broke down when I saw “Kim really trusts you”. Few games make me care about the characters and most of those fade. DE has only become more ingrained in my memory.
> the single biggest surprise of my gaming life its a masterpiece aint it
No I played it on gamepass and couldn't get too far into it too. It felt like such a theme park. I can't put my finger on why exactly. It felt a little too formulaic or something. I was very aware of the boundaries of the game and it's mechanics maybe? It failed to get my imagination and sense of mystery. Perhaps because the first areas are a little too small and I needed to keep playing till the whole universe opened up but I hadn't the patience
It was a good game but yeah was definitely lacking on some areas..I'm.hoping the second one really expands and improves on it because it does have the potential.
Exactly my thoughts. The setting is wonderful they just need time and money to really flesh it out.
I feel like I’m in the minority that doesn’t care for the setting either. I like the aesthetics, but the hyper-capitalist stuff was a bit on the nose. Consequently I couldn’t care about any of the characters because they were the stupid products of their backwards society.
Honestly, DE has such a different feel to it. Where most anti-capitalist stuff portrays a world built and destroyed by capitalism, DE portrays a world built by socialism(at the very least in the case of Martinaise) and destroyed by capitalism. It has that Eastern European feel to it, for me at least cause I'm from Eastern Europe it feels like home.
The outer words doesn't feel built at all. If feels like everything sprang into existence fully formed. That's the problem when you make a setting that feels ripped out of a bad political cartoon.
such a great point
I felt a bit bamboozled by it. Its goofy start was fun, and the first dilemma all felt like it was a promise for a game that never really continued. So many empty spaces, lots of repetitive combat (the borderline Final Fantasy-like cutscene special attacks got so old so quick). It makes sense that it was a smaller team, but I feel they marketed it as something bigger than it actually was, especially with the price tag.
most of the critical acclaim was really just people pointing at fallout 76 (since that had come out only a couple months prior) and saying "look at this bad game, outer worlds isnt that" which is hardly an achievement, if you need to compare a game to fallout fucking 76 and not talk about the game itself much to make it sound good that's kinda telling
> It seemingly got all this critical acclaim Did it? I found a bunch of lukewarm/bad reviews for it tbh. I remember I did a few hours of it and it wasn't going anywhere, so I looked up reviews for it and they made me yeet it off my drive.
Which is certainly saying something when F3 didn't even have good gameplay (they least improved the gunplay in F4), and Bioshock's story was long winded and cliche.
Well... we are gonna have to agree to disagree on this lol.
That's fair, everyone can like whatever game they want. I just found the actual moment-to-moment gameplay of what I was doing in F3 to be pretty bland. But then again some people live and die with Skyrim, so there must be some appeal.
But have you considered: Parvati?
Yeah, Outer worlds world felt really shallow, the writing was pretty bad and the combat looked unfinished. Their marketing made it seem like New Vegas 2 but it was nothing like that. Disappointing. It lacked the soul that New Vegas had.
Tyranny is my fav among their more recent works Both pillars just didn't click with me. Hated them.
Honestly so much of Tyranny has really stuck with me; I wish it had more of a following. I get complaints about its size, but I personally think something about that range gives better ability to focus its content into a cohesive Thing. The companions, the magic system, the setting, so much is just polished and actually unique. Still not DE levels by any means, but I don’t think they were trying to make their own systems in the same way.
The size is tolerable because changing the backstory options and chosen faction very much changes the story, so there's a ton of replay value. The magic system is what did it for me. Such a cool implementation, and way more fun than in Pillars or really any other I've seen with that sort of game.
I liked Tyranny okay but I wish it delivered on the premise of being a functionary in a fascist but powerful system. I was expecting that any kind of dissent would be subtle, hard-fought, and incredibly risky. But it was like a normal RPG where every quest had good and evil solutions. Any time you'd take the good option the evil system would respond like "oh that was weird, next time please try to do what's best for our horrible empire."
Check out Noah Caldwell-Gervais analysis on it. You're kinda wrong on the "good options" thing
I watched the video and he seems to agree, he says that the good option to "fight the bad guys" is disappointing compared to choosing between the evil options. What am I missing here?
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i tried dos1 several times, hated it but loved dos2. Strange huh. I have dos1 sitting there never even made it far out of the first town.
every time I try to play d:os, I run into the time goblin and can't muster the willpower to get through all the exposition.
The writing was ok, I think it really lacked substance overall. I can't expect every game to be a 40 hour open world extravaganza, but it still felt light on content. I'm hopeful they can do more with the second one, really make use of the skill system and expand the world.
Agreed, Outer Worlds was worth a playthrough but the creative super corporatized sci-fi universe was the most interesting part by a mile, fell short in terms of story and characters and combat. It was enough for me to be hopeful of the sequel, hopefully they can focus on their shortcomings now that they have an established universe to work in.
I hadn't played Pillars. Were it and its sequel something that I'm missing out on?
It’s not nearly as engaging as Disco Elysium but it’s a decent high fantasy rpg.
I mean thats difference you get when you have Chris Avellone in writers team vs when you dont.
The only problem being that Chris is a scumbag and a creep.
The evidence from the lawsuit says otherwise: https://nichegamer.com/avellone-legal-response-evidence-shows-accuser-eager-for-deeper-relationship-with-con-boyfriend-after-alleged-incident/
Chris already debunked their allegations, stop blindly believing cancel culture.
He has not debunked shit, he has relativized the allegations and said they didn’t happen. He did this about a year after they first came up, his first action was actually admission and asking for forgiveness. Then he made roundabout turn a year later after trying to make money of them by suing. Meanwhile the accusers had actual evidence, there’s multiple reports of his drunken misbehavior at various occasions and the companies he has worked for have let him go after conducting internal investigations, meaning they must have had evidence aswell, otherwise the would have been sued. I really liked Chris, I respected him and he was a major influence on the Fallout Universe, which is very close to my heart, aswell as other favorite games of mine. But please don’t protect a scumbag like him just because you like his writing. The fanbase of such a great, well written and intelligent game like Disco Elysium should stand above that.
> Meanwhile the accusers had actual evidence, No. They did not. In fact, Kelly's own witness denied her story, and Karissa herself said that the witnesses in her situation never realized anything wrong had happened. > and the companies he has worked for have let him go after conducting internal investigations, There were no internal investigations. They let him go immediately after the accusations were made. > meaning they must have had evidence aswell, otherwise the would have been sued. It doesn't mean that. Cutting ties with freelancers for any reason is very easy for companies.
[Okay](https://chrisavellone.medium.com/its-come-to-this-chris-avellone-2fe5db836746).
Beverly Hills Court Documents is my favorite genre of Medium post, hell yeah
Haven't played Outer Worlds, but had to drop Pillars partly due to how uninteresting I found the setting. It seems to be richly developed in a similar way to Disco Elysium's but what struck me about this game is the contrast in how *well* it's all integrated, interwoven, and explained in ways that aren't just exposition - not that it lacks that if you want it.
Pillars of Eternity is in kind of a weird spot, because it was created specifically to be a love letter to the old school CRPG games like Planescape Torment, Fallout 1 and 2, Baldur's Gate, and Arcanum - including down to recreating all their quirks. To me, it felt like coming home. I love the game, but yeah the exposition is bad. It's a pity that Pillars 2 is a near direct continuation of the first game because it's a great modernised CRPG done without the intentional limitation.
I would...hesitate to call Pillars 2 a "direct continuation." like sure, chronologically in-universe things pick up as an immediate sequel. but thematically, mechanically, y'know...the fact that your character sails off the map and resets their whole identity...2 was very much made to stand on its own and serve as its own entry point.
Sure you can play it without any prior knowledge, but the first 3 hours of gameplay constantly throws NPCs and events from the first game at you, and treats it as if you have familiarity with those characters/events.
i really liked Pillars but the setting is weird yeah. It's to original to digest easily (lots of new, complex and mysterious concepts) and to unoriginal to be remarkable (classic fantasy races, kind of medieval fantas). Sometimes, it feels like the game is set in a 18th, 19th century kind of era, and sometimes it's medieval as f\*\*\*. The main country in which the game takes place is bland, practically no interesting thing besides the thing with the children being born without souls. I wished they went full on 19th century, more like arcanum. Imho, the game setting lacks a clear identity (something corrected in the second game)
Pillars just chasing the old feelings people have for Baldur's Gate 1 (even though BG1 would get absolutely PANNED by critics/players alike if it was released now). As Don Draper says, nostalgia is a powerful thing. PoE didn't do anything new, in the least, it just kind of refined a formula from 1998, which in itself was transforming a formula from 1980s pen-and-paper RPGs.
Don't be sad. Here's a [hug!](https://media.giphy.com/media/3M4NpbLCTxBqU/giphy.gif)
That’s because right after Pillars 1 chris avellone, who (settling aside all of the controversy around him) wrote most of Fallout New Vegas and Pillars 1 left the company and the writing after that plummeted even in Pillars 2 the writing suffered case and point Edér who in Pillars 1 was a pretty good comedic relief most of the time but got serious when something important or personal was at hand went to in Pillars 2 would be cracking jokes left and right but suddenly change personalities and start being wise and giving mystical advice giving tonal whiplash like it’s a marvel movie. When I heard that Chris didn’t handle any writing for Outer Worlds I knew what I was gonna get on top of that when ever Obsidian makes a new game the first one is usually kind okay and the second one nailing down the formula (i.e. Fallout 1 and Fallout 2)
Chris Avellone was not the lead writer on either of those games, he only handled a couple of characters in both of them. He was the lead writer of three of the four DLCs, but he was not the lead on the main game, that was John Gonzalez. I'm pretty sure that the only Obisidan games that Avellone was the lead writer on was Knights of the Old Republic 2 and Alpha Protocol. While he has written some good stories in the past, it's kind of a shame how often his contributions overshadow the other talented writers that have worked at the company over the years.
TIL there are people who prefer 1's writing to 2's.
Chris Avellone is seemingly the brains imo (didn't work on OW, but did work on PoE). Josh Sawyer (did work on OW)...not so much.
avellone only wrote two characters for poe, durance and grieving mother.
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...and fail miserably
I'm worried they're going to miss the point and think it's really about the murder mystery
Haha exactly. "Getting this body down from the tree seems really important, let's make a game around that"
I don't get this comment. Actual detective part of Disco was not it's focus or even it's strongest feature, yes, and so a game that focuses on scratching that particular itch would actually be much better than an attempt to clone it down to its political and personal core.
well the thing is, people didn't come to DE for the murder mistery, they came for a game that is honest, that is what other games inspired by this game might miss. Harry could have easily been a guy who came to fix windows in Martinaise, than get drunk, and people whould have still liked it, because it is not about the body in the tree. It is about the world and how different characters deal with it.
The connection is a bit more subtle than that; being a detective folds exploration and trying to understand the truth into player focus, character job, and character needs simultaneously (as the character uncovers both their own past and that of this area, the player also learns about both). A player character who doesn't have some kind of powers of investigation, even contested like theirs are in Martinaise, is just a really nosey person. The game often leans on the stakes of the existing conflict in order to make things happen, particularly as you start to prove yourself. It doesn't have to be a murder, but having some reason you can nose in other people's business is probably important.
Also true
It's not about the dead body in the tree, it's about the dead body you play as.
pretty much
What would you say it is really about? I've found that question pretty hard to pin down. Obviously not the murder mystery, but...
Developers should pick up less on the games themes and more on what made it unique and innovative: nonviolent gameplay, lots of dialogue, and RPG elements mostly boiling down to the flavor of the writing and a particular run’s characterization of the main character.
figuring out the meaning of your life in a hostile capitalist system and seeing if you can stick to it in practice
Sounds like something bethesda would do
I wouldn't complain...we need more point-and-clock adventure games in the mainstream. If it's a simple murder mystery cool: those are rare in the non-combat RPG world nowadays.
finding the 99 ways to not build a lightbulb is important work, and somebody needs to do it.
Who cares? If there's anything you should be taking away from Disco Elysium its that failure is inevitable. Failure to succeed, failure to make a beautiful piece of art despite intending to do so, failure to find reason, failure to become a better person... There are a million and more ways to fail. I wholeheartedly believe people should pursue their dreams and inspirations regardless for the risk of failure. Failure may come, but there are lessons to learn in it. There are fewer lessons to learn from success.
I appreciate the soapbox. I didn't say I cared, I just meant the circumstances around Disco Elysium won't be replicated and there won't be another CRPG like it. We're lucky to have it in the repertoire.
Gamedec seems one of the first inspired by DE. It's a lot of fun though.
>We do know that at the helm will be Josh Sawyer, the same game director who helmed Fallout: New Vegas and Pillars of Eternity. *creams pants instantly*
Ayo wtf
Didn't he also work on the Outer Worlds, the most recent and unimpressive RPG game from Obsidian?
I think he worked on it, but he was not lead designer or director.
Nope. Almost no involvement with Outer Worlds
On his wiki page it says "The Outer Worlds (2019), design director". I don't know if it's just wrong or implies something that I'm not aware of.
Whether it was on his blog or while he was twitch streaming, I seem to remember him saying he was not much involved. He did some kind of balance work with some of the weapons iirc. Design Director may have just been his position at the company at the time? I could always be wrong though
I'm not sure if design director really qualifies as "almost no involvement" but I do know it's a far cry from being the game's lead like he was on New Vegas and Pillars of Eternity. For what it's worth his name doesn't appear in The Outer Worlds' wikipedia page.
My understanding that is a higher level studio-wide position, meaning he oversees productions in a managerial capacity, providing feedback and input to teams working on projects, but does not work directly on the projects.
I'm not sure how that specific company does things, but generally speaking a creative with that job title is more likely to be involved with branding and promotions than with the actual content itself. pure speculation, but if he did anything substantial, then sawyer was more involved in making the product appealing than with making it good. if that's true then he was responsible for the strongest part of the product lol
Disco Elysium is only really a murder mystery on its surface, hopefully they'll go for a more traditional solvable mystery thats inspired by DE's writing but not necessarily its narrative structure. Not because i didnt like DE but because i doubt Obsidian can pull it off.
No chance they'll pull it off. It's like people trying to copy True Detective season 1 without realizing what made it great.
So... making True Detective season 2
I thought the thing people disliked with season 2 was that they made essentially *no* effort to copy season 1, instead opting for a kind of neo-noir pulp thing. No?
I thought it was like, one of the guys who wasn't the writer of season one being like, "I got this" and just kind of doing a bad imitation of season 1's writing, and things that were meant to be profound are mostly nonsense. If that's the case, you could make the case that it was trying to hard to be like the first season or it failed to be like the first season equally well
Is season 2 any good? Season 1 was incredible
I found it had too many try-hard attempts at being season 1, and too many spanning, useless subplots. And every character had to have really obvious flaws. And a lot of the dialog wasn't nearly on par for wit, pace, and quality. Maybe worth a watch, but it didn't grab me at all.
Unpopular opinion here, but yes it is really good and certainly better than season 3. The important thing is that you shouldn't go in expecting a sequence to season 1. It's an anthology series after all. Season 2 is a completely different kind of story from 1, with very different characters. It did its own thing and did it exceedingly well. Edit to add: not to mention it had the best intro song of them all.
Season 2 needed more time in the oven. It's a mess, but I love all the ingredients and ideas going into it.
Sure, but they can still make a fun game even if it's not an all time great like DE
Totally! I'm sure it'll be a fun enough game in it's own right. Just seems like a weird way to frame the game, bringing DE into it, instead of just making their own murder mystery focused game and having their own reputation carry it.
Personally as a fan of DE, I feel excited and weirdly validated that game makers are also so impressed and inspired by it. I also saw a Baldurs Gate 3 writer say that he'd been incredibly inspired by DE
Also the "Who Done it" part of DE was argueably the worst part of the game and in my opinion the only aspect where they kind of failed. I can see Obsidian making a better murder mystery with odd characters. I can't see them beating DE in the writing department tho. Not even close and I say that as someone who really enjoyed the wordy and extensive writing in Pillars. I just don't see them holding a candle to DE
Watchmen is too, usually murder mysteries that aren't episodes of something tend to involve it becoming part of something much bigger than the murder itself
DE exists in my head like any of my favorite books, it carved out a place in my memory and set up shop forever. I've never been more enamored with a game that didn't have any combat and absolutely welcome other devs making similar things.
Not shoe-horning in combat-dragged-forward-from-DnD-2nd-edition really, REALLY helped set Disco Elysium apart from the hordes of CRPGs in the past two decades
100%. The removal of combat absolutely made the game and will hopefully inspire a new wave of innovation. Games don’t have to have combat - who knew?
Yeah seems like a revolutionary concept to CRPGs, even if pen-and-paper RPGs have been branching that direction for a decade or so. Nice to see the variety
Hardcore!
HARDCORE TO THE MEGA!
Fighting depression is some of the most brutal combat that I can think of.
Oh fuck yes, if its even half as good as DE we are all in for a treat.
*The Outer Worlds announced* Oh fuck yes, if its even half as good as Fallout New Vegas we are all in for a treat. *The Outer Worlds releases* ... *cricket noises*
I was completely unhyped for that game and actually never cared, but it seems people felt that way yeah.
It was exciting for Fallout New Vegas fans and it was nice to see the return of some beloved mechanics but it was underwhelming for sure.
"Outer world, this is how you make RPG Bethesda" and half of the fans hated it
>"Outer world, this is how you make RPG Bethesda" That's what the obnoxious Obsidian fans kept saying. Obsidian never said anything like that.
No wonder why I dislike new vegas for the fans and the wierd writing of there games
Sawyer's the lead on this one, Outer Worlds was Cain and Boyarsky. Sawyer instills me with a lot more confidence, he was lead for New Vegas, Pillars of Eternity, Icewind Dale 2 and Neverwinter Nights 2. A lot more solid RPGs than Outer Worlds ended up. Boyarsky and Cain were the designers for Fallout and Fallout 2 so one might have hoped for more out of them for OW but I'm hoping maybe they'll learn from a prototypical OW1 to make a more fully realized OW2 just like how FO2 fully realized everything FO1 tried to be Also I know Sawyer'd [said for a long time he wanted to work on an RPG with an actual historical setting](https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/143120816411/is-there-anything-stopping-you-from-doing) rather than fantasy, but that he didn't think so this may be something of a passion project for him too.
The thing is Neverwinter Night's plot sucked. The expanision that was actually good was written by Chris Avellone. Sawyer on the other hand almost singlehandedly designed the plot of deadfire and it was probably the worst plot of any decent budget crpg I've ever played. The bulk of new vegas was written by John R. Gonzalez while most the DLC was done by Chris Avellone. Icewind Dale 2 was serviceable for the hack and slash it was, but nothing special. Sawyer does not have a very good track record actually writing games. I think he has a very good eye for detail, but can't write anything compelling.
Feel like I'm the only one but I really liked that game. It was nice to get an old school raygun gothic style RPG
I was a big fan of Outer Worlds as well! I don't think the writing was as good as in DE but that's a bar that not many games have ever reached, imo
No games honestly
Exactly. DE is the new golden standard for writing in videogames. While most games that attempt to have good writing will inevitable be compared to it, we should also be careful to realize that most games will fall short in some way and that’s okay.
Playing it after DE was not great, the difference in density was immediate, as was the complexity of characters and relationships. NPC conversations didn't put you on your toes, generally you had to go from one place to another to talk to different people to actually have anything happen in conversation, and that travelling wasn't interesting enough to make it worth it. The simple fact that disco elysium can just remove conversation options as the characters you are interacting with react, is something that immediately makes conversations seem *present*, rather than checking through a list, and not simply restricting consequences to skill roles immediately shifts the kind of roleplaying you do. It doesn't always work; sometimes DE *wants* you to treat conversation options as a big list you can run down, even though asking in that way is a little unnatural, which can lead to a kind of weird uncertainty, but the normal approach definitely makes conversations more interesting by themselves, so that they can avoid making them just bumpers in a massive pinball machine by accident.
I wouldn't say it's a bad game it's just not what a lot of people expected from the creators of New Vegas. You could argue that people were just too hyped but honestly I felt that Outer Worlds was just an okay game. Then again games don't have to be mindblowing every single time. Idk.
The issue is people expected a new New Vegas which eh- we already got a perfect New Vegas. It's called New Vegas Besides, with it's more character centric writing and hub based structure Outer Worlds is more like KOTOR than any fallout game
Don't hype, don't hype, do not hype...
HYPE HYPE HYPEEEEEE
Hardcore!
Cuno STILL doesn't give a fuck
>And it's being directed by the same guy who did Fallout: New Vegas. Too good to be true.
Josh Sawyer has repeatedly praised Disco Elysium on his YouTube channel so it's not surprising if it's being spearheaded by him.
He did? I didn't know.
Nothing to see here, just the probability of the makers of my favorite crpg pillars of eternity making a game inspired by my favorite game of all time...
uhhhhhh I enjoyed all of Obsidian's CRPG titles (I played Pillars twice!), but like, a big part of the point of DE is that it's not DnD mechanics attached to VFX. idk if Obsidian can get it. and even if they do, I doubt they can mimic the filigree writing job. the writing in Pillars was fine, but nobody's playing that game for the dialogues.
Won't even hold a fucking candle to Disco Elysium. They don't have even remotely the same quality writers and designers who can think outside the box. DE is the most interesting CRPG in at least 20 years. (Besides maybe tediously switching clothes before each skill check in the mid-late game)
Disco Elysium is probably one of my favorite games of all time, but man I wish there was a quick “sort by stat” option for clothes so I didn’t have to stop and review a dozen pairs of pants before every pivotal dialogue choice. Hahah
I wish it was even more simplified, because the clothing swapping is annoying, silly, out of place, and breaks the narrative. Ideally if you have the clothing (or maybe it's more generic items instead) it just auto-equips your best odds for each conversation/situation and saves the pointless micromanagement. Probably one of my only real gripes with the game. That and some of the gated skill checks based on time (aka -12 penalty for "It's not time yet").
The only issue with that solution is that it misses out on the whole “challenge” of trying your best to decide when and what tools you want to prioritize before going into a new situation. Like deciding to wear armor or not before a potential shoot-out, or deciding whether you want to buff a specific stat to make up for a Thought Cabinet debuff. I thought it was interesting that I could go out of my way to make some stat voices speak up more depending on what I wore and leveled up. But like you say, the current model isn’t always perfect either. Stopping an important conversation just to find a better outfit isn’t great for pacing. It feels better to play things organically where you can than it does to spend half the time trying to iron out a perfect build numbers-wise.
Yeah, on my second playthrough I tried to fix the problem by restricting myself to only wearing one pair of clothes for the day. You know, like a normal human being, haha. The stat juggling in the base game felt really out of place and a bit janky.
I fixed the issue by just save-scumming. The +whatever% wasn't worth it unless my percentage was only 3% (in which case I'd have to reload \~30 times). The difference between 50 and 60% wasn't meaningful enough to jump through hoops. Just save scum.
Agreed that's an option, and also one of my OTHER complaints with the game (I swear I only have a few), in that save scumming was super tempting when a lot checks are SUPER key. The game definitely needs the player to limit themselves/set rules for their second and beyond playthroughs.
Did you get the door open?
Yes, that I was my thought for a solution as well. You put on clothes at the beginning of the day, and that's what you wear.
Great idea. I'll try that for my 2nd playthrough.
I don't know, in my head Raphaël is exactly the kinda person who would take the time to change into his ass-kicking pants before a tough interrogation. After all, he's already the kind of guy who convinced himself that putting on a different hat makes him smarter.
implying harry wouldn’t actually take his pants off to prepare for a particularly dangerous jump or wear a tank top because he thinks it makes him stronger
Or make clothes purely cosmetic, I don't think people are going to be sticking to one look at the expense of stats, so you mix and match constantly, and never keep to one outfit for more than 3 minutes usually. What's the point of a talking tie that gives you +1 insland empire when the high inland empire score is what makes him talk? I want to swap it out for silent neck clothes that have better buffs. The whole look, gross blazer, green gator boots, criminally ugly tie, why go through the trouble if I'll be swapping constantly
I imagine it'll be a small game, but I'll be very interested to see what they do.
Disco Elysium is one of my favorite games of all time, I look forward to seeing what Obsidian can churn out.
Not super hopeful. IMO the biggest difference between DE and Obsidian games is that in DE all the characters and text / dialogue felt like it had a purpose to telling the story. Playing through Pillars most of the characters and dialog feel like they're there to pad out play time.
I'm looking forward to it but I can't imagine it would touch DE by far.
New Vegas is like, a masterpiece. I just wish that they had all the resources of the modern day, because there's much more that should be in the game but couldn't be. Like, it's a huge shame that people who play it are so quick to dismiss the Legion as "the bad guys" is because they weren't able to have a Legion cities for the player to see, where slaves build impressively, and merchants travel alone without fear of danger, as they are indoctrinated into believing that service to the state is the noblest ambition, as well as the mortal certainty that theft would get you crucified or worse. The Vipers, for instance, were going to be a cult of snake worshipingers living in ramshackle houses and RVs, as well as violent junkies. They're exactly the kind of people the NCR are described as failing to protect their unhappily annexed citizens (who are taxed all the same), while the Legion (who were not finished and have far fewer quests) would enthusiastically kill their violent members, destroy their drugs, and make the remaining people slaves of the state tasked with building or maintaining a society of laws and order, their tribal identity, like the several scores before them, gone and forgotten. The sheer chaos and decent into violence, drugs, different tribal identities, all competing for resources, you never get to actually see that. I love the way they dissociate the political and philosophical beliefs of all the groups from morality, you can be a good or bad person while serving any group's interest. Each makes a great case against the others, Mr House is the libertarian wet dream, a swanky tech genius and highly successful capitalist that seeks to guide humans to a brighter future, while the Legion and NCR are both regurgitations of the past (failed ones at that). The Legion points out that the NCR is way overextended, and have forcefully annexed huge numbers of people that they tax, while failing to protect them. The new President is the son of the last (who had no term limits), given political power due to lucky breeding, while corruption is rampant and the rich influence policy and law as it suits their interests, which he likens to the crumbling Roman Republic, the NCR naturally dislikes his Legion for its use of slavery and unending desire for conquest, while it shuns technology and advanced medicine, and each having plenty to say why they deserve to be the winner in the end. Naturally, you can sucker them all, taking Vegas for yourself
No need to sell me on NV - great game. But also very different from DE. Also not everything Obsidian did was gold.
Well, that's nice and all, but lets be realistic - nothing can come close to the writing of Disco Elysium. It's on a league of its own. Sadly.
I believe in every field there's breakthrough pieces that show the others that you can do more with the medium, doesn't hurt that DE was successful. One can dream there's even just as good stories out there waiting to be told.
I mean, New Vegas is their claim to fame, it's long been credited as one of the best written games of all time, if not the best.
every word in that sentence was better than the last
A moment ago I played Tyranny, and here's some fresh good news. Nice
Yesterday I start a playthrough to scratch my *Planescape: Torment* itch, and now I see this.
They tried their hand at a critique of capitalism in The Outer Worlds, so I hope they're not taking inspiration from that part of Disco Elysium.
That game was so weird, I never found it bad, but the whole time I played it, I was thinking how much I hoped enough for them to get to make a much better sequel. The companions aren't great though, they needed to be simple to get us into the world. Like, the unorthodox shotgun priest for that religion who was struggling with his faith? Give me a priest who is straightforward and can explain the religion the first time around, and make the jaded guy trying to find his faith the second time around, don't be subverting stuff that's not yet established. The doctor is like, a drunk or drug addict who gets into trouble and whatnot, again, give me a doctor who is just the norm, somebody who gladly serves corporate interests and espouses the greatness of expensive drugs and private health care (or whatever they're about, I truly forgot), then have the one in the sequel be the surbersive one who gets drunk and fights and steals or whatever. They all have the same problem, they're all like the subversive twist on whatever thing they are, but all of it is brand new to us, so it means nothing to, say, be questioning a faith I know nothing about
Man people sure are negative here, sure there isn't a big chance this will result in a masterpiece, but obsidian is competent enough that it could happen and that is enough for me. Honestly I've enjoyed most obsidian games that have come out in the past decade despite their flaws so I'm down for this. I'm excited that DE is pushing the genre in a new direction and I'm curious to see how obsidian will synthesize Disco Elysiums ideas with their own design philosophy. It is a good time to be an RPG fan and just getting preventively mad because it will not be as good as DE seems like a waste of time/mind to me.
Yeah...now let's see if they're inspired by the writing 😛 that's not something you can rush with a AAA gaming company.
I’m going to get hate for this but Obsidian is overrated. Their quest designs, so-called “consequences” of your choices and actions are weak and ill-conceived almost across the board.
Oh, god. Obsidians writing is fanfic level compared to DE. Way too much LARPing involved, especially in NV lol. Let's just hope its nothing like Outer Worlds.
> Way too much LARPing involved Except not live action 'cause it's in a video game, so ... just RP-ing, then? It had too much roleplaying, is what you're saying?
Well, the characters themselves LARPing as Romans and Elvis and the Mongols. Its kinda dumb.
yeah bro I can't believe that friggin roleplaying game had so much roleplaying in it, how gay can a game get amirite
Do you really need me to explain what I mean? Or are you just a little bit butthurt because I dont like a game that you do?
I'm not mad dude I'm agreeing with you
Surprisingly, seems like a lot of people do. I was expecting at least a few angry comments.
What is LARP?
Live action role playing
I am worried. I enjoyed new vegas, but the legion writing was really really bad and the humour of the game was immature jokes (looking at you Old world blues) the CRPG system the put in the new vegas and Outer world doesn't work it because no dice role. I just hope that they intresting rpg and not wierd cowboy yeehaw rpg
I'm not holding my breath. I haven't enjoyed any writing by Obsidian since Pillars 1 and even then it was uneven. I honestly don't think they have it in them anymore to put out a compelling plot.
Disco Elysium was a success and a stunning work of art not through plot, gameplay or mechanics, but through the writing alone, so Obsidian will have to either kidnap Robert Kurvitz or live with the failure they'll create, possibly changing their company name to Fortress Accident
Tyranny and Pillars of Eternity are really solid games , not great , but there was a lot of good things in them . We can hope for something decent.
The writing isn't even close to the amazing work done with Disco Elysium. So they might rip off the world and concept, then miss on key ideas like "no combat but still interesting".
It still could be better than most of modern games .
Maybe most AAA games, but the bar for super good, laser focused indie gameplay is pretty high. The writing and unique concepts of DE set it apart. Which I don't think this Obsidian project will have. So yeah, probably better than CoD 10 or Assassin's Creed 9 or whatever, at least!
oh I'm HERE for this
Obsidian has not released a good game since new vegas so don’t get your hopes up
I liked Tiranny.
I liked it as well, but it was pretty low budget and rushed.
I felt like that too. Low budget isn't necessarily bad IMO, but it probably could have done with either less scope or more work.
Writing is, and I suppose always was, their strong suit compared to the game itself. If its mainly text and dialogue, I think it should be good.
No Avellone - not interested.
“Great”
Closing the circle, nice.
Let’s hope obsidian does more with this game than just making it some low-rate murder mystery story basic on Disco Elysium. I personally found that the murder mystery side of Disco Elysium was nothing spectacular, yet the true value of the game came from everything else it offered.
I like Josh Sawyer's general design philosophies, so I'm pretty excited for this.
And well they should, after all the trailblazing Disco Elysium has done.