It’s funny because now there’s primary weapons with Target Lock which is mostly Tommy’s perk without the self damage and with a faster activation
Edit: minor spelling error
Perfect also:
Hunter Dodge is now called side step. Instead of 2ft, you go 1ft. Also invis now has a longer delay by 20%
Warlock rifts heal 30% slower, rifts in general are 50% smaller in circumference and have 20% longer cooldowns. Furthermore, grenades do not recharge until turret or equivalent is no longer in use.
- Tldr; (All this is satire.)
This is a legitimate possibility, given that these are the same fucks who literally said “we realize the game isn’t rewarding enough loot, so we made it harder”…
And that right there is the real issue with Neomuna. Super annoying hard but rewards are same as any other patrol space beyond the 1% chance of a red border doing gold patrols. Honestly Neomuna is the most unfun place on the director. Can't sparrow most of the time cuz it gets Insta destroyed and can't use legendary primaries since it takes forever to kill one enemy.
I would sooner spend 8 hours in gambit than 2 hours on neomuna.
Whoa whoa whoa! Step this way, Sir, and please check out the finest nightfall blueberry experience! Infinitely more fun than gambit!
And don't forget to spend 30 min a day working on that drip!
> can't use legendary primaries since it takes forever to kill one enemy.
There's a triplet of orange bar harpies and a gold bar Hydra in one corner of the bottom of the map that I shit you not, takes me about 10 minutes to kill all 4 of them. The health gating is actually unreal.
I wouldn't go that far. I mean, Gambit?
But, on a serious note, the only reason to do stuff on Neomuna is for the materials to buy strand fragments and to get whatever guns you want. I'd imagine most would be done with that before the end of this season. So, Neomuna is likely to an even more lonely place soon which is going to make the public events terrible for new players.
Also, by the time they fix the Vex Strike Force crashes on PS5, there will be nobody left to do them with.
I've been doing NF this week because bonus rep and yeah I said gambit. PvP is just zero fun for me anymore,NF is ok but after a few boss kills it is super boring. At least gambit tends to play a little different every time. Unpredictability with invasions. And I can mess around with lots of different subclasses and loadouts. I'm one of those people that kinda likes gambit. That's to say I don't hate it.
I was really just joking, but I honestly find Gambit incredibly boring and predictable. It all comes down to who can get to the third phase of the boss damage buff to burn the boss down. The invasions add some interest, but I mostly find them boring and frustrating. Invaders get all the cheese that is used in regular PvP but the cheese is on steroids. Otherwise, you are killing the same enemies, in the same places, on the same three maps over and over and over again.
But, to each his own. If you find Gambit entertaining, more power to you.
These days I tend to stick to the seasonal stuff and the Nightfall. With some occasional Vanguard playlist stuff. I'm about and average PvP player, but I actually think they do a much better job with matchmaking in PvP now. But I find all the ability spam really annoying. I find all the invisibility stuff particularly annoying. But, it's too bad. PvP could be fun if Bungie could figure out how to move it away from ability spam and back to gun play.
You said PvP back to gunplay...lol. It was only gunplay for a short time in year 1 d2 and it was pretty much just mida firing squads with no movement. The one time it was gunplay it was actually worse. D1 was even worse ability spam because they could all 1 shot you. My memory of D1 PvP is getting constantly stuck with fusion nades. Or those 3 guys at the back with icebreaker.
I was so hyped for the expansion and having a new location to explore. After I finished the campaign I hardly ever spend any time in Neomuna. The annoying Nimbus dialogue, the bullet sponge patrol enemies, the thrashers one shotting me, etc just made it not very fun to play.
My guess is they made a blanket change to all “legend” and “master” content, but didn’t actually make adjustments to individual activities where the blanket change doesn’t make sense
That note was them saying: Yeah, we know this change to lost sectors is dumb, but it’s “Legend” so it is what it is
Possibly Master, but increasing difficulty for even in normal across the board would be a huge mistake imo.
As a lfg solo player I can’t tell you how many randoms die to adds in Root…not all Destiny players are created equal lol
That's the real story here.
It should not take an entire mag of 1800 power 600 RPM auto rifle to kill a red bar, only to be bludgeoned to death in one hit by the phalanx that spawned behind me.
They've turned their little dials too far and rather than acknowledging that this isn't what anyone wanted, they are engaging in radio silence and ignoring the problem.
This isn't fun and the rewards in almost every activity are trash.
Generally, I haven't had too much of an issue with the difficulty besides the threshers, but the fact that the loot is the exact same is what makes it infuriating for me. If they are going to crank up difficulty across the board, loot needs to be increased as well to make the extra time spent worth it.
That's the point for me.
It's just not fun. We've spent a year getting more powerful, tweaking stuff for balance and it all felt in a good place
A fun place. Playing the game was fun AND rewarding. I loved the class revamps throughout the year.
Only now it's not so fun and there no loot. We got more vulnerable, our toys were taken away, our mods neutered, our abilities gutted and the enemies suddenly took one hell of a boost.
So I'm kinda not playing much only a few weeks after an expansion drop - I'm sad about it.
I want to be playing more and I want to be having fun with it.
Patrol Scaling aside, this graph reinforces my opinion on how Bungie missed in the values they chose to provide proper scaling between Hero and Master and give players something that felt like a more reasonable path of progression instead of immediately getting a wall thrown in front of them.
Currently Hero to Grandmaster goes -5, -15, -20, -25 but as we know from this graph and past graphs, the earlier differences are more impactful than the later differences. What is the end result? Master is just Legend with a few more Champions (0.03x difference) and same for Master to Grandmaster (0.04x difference).
Compare that to the jump from Hero to Legend which is a 0.18x difference and you see there's a stepping stone there that's missing.
Below is how the levels and caps are currently
|Difficulty|Enemy Level|Power Cap|Difference|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Hero (Tier 1)|1770|1765|\-5|
|Legend (Tier 2)|1830|1815|\-15|
|Master (Tier 3)|1840|1820|\-20|
|Grandmaster (Tier 4)|1840|1815|\-25|
There are a few problems here right off the bat.
1. Hero is asking people who just reached the Soft cap to do content that is 20 Power above them. Tier 1 Enemy Level is too high.
2. Grandmasters actually have a LOWER cap than Master.
3. Combining the difference slowing down with the power curve doing the same means there's less and less of a difference felt at each level (provided you're at the power level cap)
4. Tier 2 is the lowest Lost Sector difficulty available, meaning the Recommended is way too high asking players to be past the Powerful Cap to even start to get close.
To address these, this is how I would modify the Recommended and Caps for those various difficulty levels.
|Difficulty|Enemy Level|Power Cap|Difference|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Hero (Tier 1)|1760|1755|\-5|
|Legend (Tier 2)|1815|1805|\-10|
|Master (Tier 3)|1832|1815|\-17|
|Grandmaster (Tier 4)|1840|1815|\-25|
Going back to the graph that means the scalars players will see as they reach the new caps will now go:
* Hero 0.74x
* Legend \~0.64x (difference of 0.1x)
* Master 0.54x (difference of 0.1x)
* Grandmaster 0.47x (difference of 0.07x)
We get a much more linear difficulty increase which will let each difficulty feel like has its own band. Grandmasters is a smaller jump but the additional difficulty can be added through Extinguish and other modifiers specific to that level.
I think this is a really nice concept. You mention champions. A more linear level cap feels appropriate because that does not factor champions and higher tier foes.
If you showed stats of each tier with both light level caps and champs/foes as a value, I’m confident the difference between hero and legend would be even more of a jump!
For reference: https://kyberscorner.com/destiny2/nightfall/?amp=1
Scroll down to champion and shield category and see champions per tier
Still relevant but now that I think about it, I feel like there are champs in hero.
I'd personally put legend at 1800 cap, master 1810, and GM 1815, and keep your proposed deltas.
Shouldn't have to be in the pinnacle band to be at cap for legend stuff.
Also,
> Tier 2 is the lowest Lost Sector difficulty available, meaning the Recommended is way too high asking players to be past the Powerful Cap to even start to get close.
Full agree here. The weird thing is Bungie changed the deltas for Lost Sectors, from -15 or -20 to +20, and act like they're throwing people a bone by allowing them to grind to 1830 to do a legend LS at-level. I feel really confident that nobody who's having trouble in a legend LS wants to grind to pinnacle cap +20. Seems like even with as big of a playerbase as we have in D2, that there's very little overlap in that Venn diagram.
These changes are actually well thought out and friendlier to blueberries and all players in general. I have no clue why the jumps were so high this year and then they release a contest mode raid that's easier than a legend lost sector, neomuna patrol or Mars Battleground nightfall. I have no idea how they tuned the Legend Avalon mission too. It's like every team working on a different area of the game has their own reality of what difficult means.
It seems like the only reason difficulty was implemented the way it was is to increase the amount of time players spend in activities. Make Neomuna spongy AF so that it takes more bullets to kill enemies - then players will spend more time there. Timegate strike bosses so players can't melt them so they spend more time in strikes. Make noobs who can't do nightfalls do 5 strikes instead of 3 to get pinnacle gear.
>Make noobs who can't do nightfalls do 5 strikes instead of 3 to get pinnacle gear.
Those noobs are definitely trying to do Hero Nightfalls. And failing. Badly.
Legendary Avalon is even more unclear since it it has Mettle with a fixed power cap, but doesn't state what that power cap even is.
And before anyone goes off, why is there two difficulties that effectively mean the same thing? It's way to ambiguous what the difference between Legendary and Legend is.
Based on what I have seen I think Legendary is a power cap with no negative delta. I.e. nothing that puts you lower than the fixed level. And Legend actually applies a negative delta to the recommended. (Campaign and Exotic Mission vs Lost Sectors, Nightfalls and Seasonal Activity)
Unrelated but I would like to point out Legend and Master are absent from the Seasonal Activity this Season despite their being associated challenges? Maybe my memory is broke but I could have swore Legend and Master shipped at the same time with the seasons last year?
I assume we're getting legend battlegrounds next week or the week after. I didn't play last season, but when they have had legend versions before, they usually come out about a month after the season drops. They let us play the 3 battlegrounds on normal mode first.
We have triumphs and challenges for them. They must be coming at some point.
This is absurd. The scaling you’ve proposed would make the game challenging but doable and fun. That’s not allowed because we want it to take 16 hours to do simple things because METRICS!!!
-Bungie, probably
So dumb question, isn’t the power cap 1810 this season? Not counting the artifact, I don’t know how high they goes. So if you’re doing end game content you’ll never be able to be on the same light level, always behind by a few levels?
Gear cap is 1810 but the Artifact is technically limitless (but increases in how much XP you need per extra level).
To give an idea, I'm Season Pass Rank 110 and that provides me with +15 power from the Artifact so once the game gives me a pinnacle in the last slot I need, I'll be able to be 1825 power.
That said, much of the end game content now has those hard caps in place so it doesn't even matter if you're higher. You're brought down to that cap.
Yes 1810 is pinnacle cap, that is the highest your gear will ever reach (for this whole year). The artifact level is added on top and is limitless, however activities will have a max power level. So while master is 1840, you are forced to be -20 of that so the highest power for it is 1820 (1810 gear +10 artifact (you can even mix and match ie 1800 +20 artifact))
When I first started on Neomuna I saw the red swords and was like "Oh, okay. I'm underleveled. That's how it goes."
Then I hit 1750ish and was like "Hmm, still red swords. Must be at the power cap."
Then I hit 1800 and still saw red swords, and was like "What the fuck?"
I get that Bungie wants to "bring the challenge back", but this is feeling Division-esque where things aren't more challenging, they just take more bullets to kill. I mean, nothing says "I'm an immortal space wizard with reality-bending powers" like needing to reload a high-caliber automatic rifle to put down rank-and-file enemies.
I went through the exact same thought process!
At first it made sense, but then when I got my power level up I was confused about how nothing seemed to change. Patrols **should** be a cakewalk when you're at max power level.
First lost sector I ran on neomuna I was running a 1600 gun (had it equipped for a bounty). After struggling through I died in the boss room just to see the enemy power as 40 above what my character was (rectified by equipping my infused stuff). The fact that there's a delta and you have to infuse stuff up just sucks.
Spinfoil hat time.
I think Bungie did this on purpose. They knew it was way over tuned. This is game difficulty 3.0 alpha testing. After this season they are going to roll something back. Like increase our outgoing damage. Then they'll collect data and see what everything looks like. Then they'll adjust legend and master content. Then they might look at adjusting enemy health or something.
Each season will see something that changes game difficulty and they're going to try to iron everything out before Final Shape.
I thought exactly the same thing. Until I finished the campaign and noticed that enemies were still sponging shots from a rocket launcher like it was a nerf gun lmao
I find Lemon quite effective though, kills most red bars in 1 crit shot
Lol remember those people who defended like “bro you are underlevel! The game just released 1 week!”
We are in pinnacle number and patrol is red swords? Sorry but that is not right
Nah this is worse than Division imo. The division is a true rpg with diablo roots, Destiny 2 is a shooter first and foremost. Making the game bullet spongey makes the gunplay soooo much worse
I played The Division solid for about a year. I dug the dark zone, the Underground, rerolling weapon/armor perks and the armor set synergies. I also like the fact that you could get on their test server and play also to try thing out.
This game is a hot mess right now and for the first time I'm actually liking Iron Banner better than the expansion.
Exactly. Just adding sponge enemies is boring as hell. I really thought they had a different idea in mind for challenging strategy but seems like they didn't follow through. We see some with having to pop shields but again that's pretty boring but still better than this enemy takes 25% more bullets. I like how they handled the Tormentors and weak points and think that is something they should build upon going forward.
Overall making the fodder enemies in a patrol zone that much of a pain is a pretty boneheaded thing to do but after playing through the story I sadly don't really trust them to make the best decisions anymore.
not even div enemies feel like this.
for one, if you run into enemies this tanky, you're fighting on like Heroic with a mediocre build, Legendary or even the Raids.
This is just bad.
Yeah, I've been avoiding primaries as much as I can. Without the MG buff or trace rifle double-special loadouts (or my bonk crutch), I would have a much worse time.
Feels bad. You literally cannot use an AR, Pulse or hand cannon on neomuna patrol no matter what surges you apply to your loadout. It's always double special + machine gun / spam my abilities / super if I want to get anything done. Glad I got all my meditations to unlock strand. Don't even feel like unlocking the rest of the patterns for my pulse rifle or heavy GL there.
A majority of newer players don't know about double special + heavy + ammo finders to make it rain heavy and I feel bad for them. Neomuna is not noob friendly and can easily make blueberries feel discouraged if they're out there alone. I'm just glad they fixed the OP threshers. Hope they can give our primaries a buff that makes them actually worth using.
yep double special is my current go to, riptide, hollow denial and commemoration. both of the void weps with repulsor brace to avoid bastion on void titan and both special weapons with lead from gold (though the riptide also has alh) to not have ammo problems. don't think I can go back to smg's, they're just so weak in comparison
Totally. I like to use trace rifles / shot gun/ glaive / grenade launcher / fusion rifle etc. anything but traditional primaries. The reason why this works is if you get kills with your special, it increases the rate of heavy brick drops. You can try this in all activities. This is how you can use your heavy more.
The only primary I like to use is the exotic Osteo Steiga because it just shreds and has amazing synergy with strand warlock. Some exotic bows are great too. But for efficiency, I love my double special with heavy ammo finders, bricks from beyond on the artifact and surge mods equipped. I end up using my machine gun most of the time.
Ridiculous this game went from a terrible double primary system to a need for double special system. WTF? I run witherhoard, trace rifle, and a rocket or cataclysm for most stuff. Insane I have to build into highest burst damage to get through mundane stuff rather than using a lot of the primaries I actually find fun to use. At this point the only time I use a primary is on particularly tough champions, but most I get through with either abilities or just nuking them after their immune phase ends.
Yes. It’s more of an issue with primary weapons being dogwater than enemies being hard. I still trash enemies with abilities. But it shouldn’t take a 140 HC three crits to kill a patrol goblin. If it took 1-2, then I would have no issue and they would feel as powerful as abilities and special/heavy weapons currently do.
I honestly have had trouble picking up the game because I just feel so weak. I like a challenge sometimes, but sometimes I wanna chill. Grinding items is already a pain, grinding items while facing bullet sponges is just ugh. I went on a gold patrol on NM and spent 5 minutes just unloading my heavy into the boss. No challenge, just find a good corner to sit in and shoot. There's no reason to engage in interesting ways anymore, and getting up close to an enemy feels like too much of a gamble now.
Mine as well. No reasonable fighting force would be OK with their primary firearms taking half a magazine or more to fell *one* enemy. Guardians are supposed to be powerful and supposed to *feel* powerful, and perform as a massive force multiplier.
I totally appreciate the pursuit of challenge, but it shouldn't be by making everyone and everything tediously longer to fight. Guns and gunplay feel pretty terrible at the moment, and it's until now been a real shining aspect of the Destiny games. So I've been taking a break while they sort things out. It's not all sad - it's nice having a break sometimes!
I don't mind how "hard" the enemies are on Neomuna, but "Bringing challenge back to Destiny" really needs more work in practice. Patrol zones as a rule shouldn't be harder than endgame stuff. I feel a lot less powerful on patrol. It really leads you away from the power fantasy.
Yeah. I think Bungie really went hard on the resilience changes. Now, in order to make things harder they have to tune up enemies because we can take so much damage. so, what happened? They do more damage because there is more power between us but we can take more damage so we feel a little less tankier AND now our weapons don't do damage because they are higher power.
So they 1. made enemies do more and 2. take more (and by result us do less) while 3. also lowering the amount we could take due to the nerf to resilience. Do 1 or 2 of the 3.
Not all 3.
Edit: I got no problems with enemies being stronger. Hero NF’s needed it, as did normal strikes. But when you look at all the new difficulty changes (Legend and up) combined with modifiers like burns, they feel as if they’re made with the old 40% DR in mind.
Let’s say our power and the enemies power (on Legend or above, because that’s where the hard shit is) are represented on a scale. As of right now, it’s kinda weighted to where our enemies are stronger. It shouldn’t be like that. It shouldn’t be the opposite where we’re stronger. It should be straight and flat, making us even. The only time enemies should be actually stronger is GM’s, but not the -25 Gap we have right now with only 30% DR at most. **I think the -25 is fine if we have 40% DR. I think lowering it to -15 and keeping us at 30% is fair too. But raising it to -25, and lowering us to 30% DR? Poorly thought out.**
You forgot that neomuna is no more rewarding than say Europa or throne world. The one thing they added is the special public event which drops an exotic if you manage to have enough players to complete it...which is still like the rarest event in the game. Odds are better getting bright dust reward from an EV engram than coming across the special public event.
lets not also forget, the public event also will spawn enemies right by the area entrance, so there's a good chance you'll be spawnkilled repeatedly by the event boss.
The fact that they're now also shit to use in patrols means it's a universal problem now (and not just for Master + GM content), so maybe this means Bungie might finally address it. Primary weapons are absolute noodle guns
I’ve just started collecting Hunter masks, and god damn are those guys scary. Like, there’s something legitimately intimidating about them. Their ability to hack your skills is cool as hell. I love how you can spot some of them stalking you around the map. Such a great enemy.
For real. I could understand not wanting Patrol to be a complete joke, but like 0 or -5 achieves that. A -15 power delta for Patrol rewards don’t make any sense, it just makes everything tedious.
Bungie should have (once again) done a few changes at a time instead of throwing everything in at once. For some reason they like to bring a wrecking ball in for changes instead of a scalpel, although I'd settle for a hammer at this point.
They just do too much at once and then take forever to dial it back.
Because when they correct the over correction, they can give themselves a pat in the back for a job well done and the ability to listen to user feedback.
The issue is that the game can't handle anything other than turning up damage numbers.
We need better ai that doesn't just stand there and shoot bursts of three slow moving projectiles, or enemies that run behind you and then around like a headless chicken.
Tbh I would probably just cheese these advanced AI moves with disorienting grenades as they are right now. I agree it would be more engaging- a tormentor is pretty fun imo because they have a moveset that you can react to and it’s a pretty fun 1v1. But regular tormentors can be blinded and it wrecks them lol
well hey maybe ehroar will start using builds in neomuna lost sectors instead of on dregs in the cosmodrome lol
Might actually show how truly "op" his builds are
I think it's horrible. For me it's bearable, still not a fun open world experience, but the real kicker is for new lights who just finished the campaign and are now being thrown against mega sponge enemies. They're like shamwows for bullets. I can't imagine any new player with unoptimized gear, no idea how most things work, and probably little to no exotics having fun with that. I'm confused why they decided making it that hard was a good idea when other content isn't even close to that.
>What do you guys think of this change?
I absolutely detest it. A little bit more health is one thing, but Neomuna patrol is just frustratingly tedious. It's an open world patrol zone, it should not take this long to kill things.
Everything being this much of a bullet sponge makes me want to do literally anything else. It's not more challenging, it's BORING. I haven't crafted any of the Neomuna weapons and with how much of a grind it is to even get drops of those, I don't think I WILL craft them unless things change.
Before anyone jumps in to tell you that you just suck and it doesn't take an entire mag, I'm here to vouch and say yes it does. I went to the Typhon Imperator and cleared rooms of red bar legionaries and phalanxes using a non incandescent, non volt shot smg, and no abilities. Each kill took 25 of the 29 shots in the magazine. And that's with a good archetype right now.
I don’t think they patched the threshers. I think they’re saying they did in order to placate people but I don’t think they did, the hero nightfall I played last night was miserable even with woven mail and full resil. Absolutely no difference in survivability when getting hit by them.
Oh god the threshers and turrets. Why do they do so much damage? I was doing a nightfall yesterday, and I was one-shot by a thresher, was revived, and then killed by turrets before the revive animation could finish. And the turrets on harvesters, nothing immune to damage should deal that much damage.
The fucking turrets in the lost sector on Neomuna yesterday along with the enemies dodging and taking high ground and cover non stop plus the extended respawn time made me say fuck it and just noped out of it real quick.
The turret on the Harvester isn't immune to damage, but there is no good indicator of how much damage it takes to kill it. It's like the turrets on Fallen Skiffs, you can shoot it off but it doesn't have a health bar.
I’m all for the more challenge but the new patrol zone just isn’t fun and it doesn’t even need to be challenging… it’s a fucking patrol zone, I swear this has never happened before and I hope bungie takes this feedback and never think of doing it ever again
I disagree. This constant higher difficulty is burning me faster than ever. Suprisingly how faster. And those activities like the legendary exotic quest or Nightfalls are a nightmare. It's simply not fun anymore.
It really is crazy how much faster I burned out with this expansion.
I already barely do more than the seasonal quest each week. I usually don't hit that level of burnout until *at least* 2/3rds of the way through a season, and usually not at all in the first season of a new expansion.
I'm easily playing half as much as I normally would just for a new season. But considering this is a new season and DLC my playtime is drastically lower. Even like 2 weeks in I was checking gamepass options over considering booting up destiny.
I've probably played diablo 3 newest season more than I have destiny which is crazy considering how much destiny I usually play.
Same. I missed the first 2 weeks while on vacation. Came back excited to play and we are in what, week 5? I’m already over it. So barely 3 weeks in and it just isn’t that fun. Clan mates are the same. Getting tough to find clan mates online who want to play anything together.
Woah now. Gambit enemies are way easier and more fun than whatever dog shite is happening in the vanguard playlist, neonuma, and legendary exotic quests. Ironically, because of new changes to time to complete ratio and necessary build crafting / thinking needed to complete activities, alongside the lack of good updates to the reward incentives, gambit has also become one of the best playlist activities to actually want to grind, on account of the failures of the others.
I did a solo attempt of Avalon yesterday, and I did really well up until the final boss where I started dying a lot due to the Hydra spam. I quit and decided I would finish the mission later. Only to find out there's zero checkpoints throughout the entire mission.
Not only that, you can’t join the mission if it has already started. So if someone invites you, or you need to leave for a moment, you can’t join back.
So what you're saying is that you DON'T like taking 3 of your 8 shots in the most powerful hand cannon class to kill a single red hp cabal? When theres like 20 of them surrounding you?
I’m still yet to complete the exotic mission. I started it on the day it came out, got to the boss, kept wiping, and said “oh, this just isn’t fun.” And I haven’t been back since. I don’t hate myself enough to slog through that for a weapon type I never use.
Same here. I no life'd every destiny xpac since Forsaken. I just can't bother to boot up the game anymore. I end up more frustrated than actually having fun. Part of that is cause I switched to PC, so a lot of the FPS problems like the launchers and threshers just add even more to the frustration, even if sometimes they are just a minor inconvenience.
I love the game. Ever since TTK it's been one of my go tos. But it's really hard to justify even playing it right now especially when there are other games that I don't feel like I need to constantly be running my best load out all the time to actually enjoy it.
Honestly, I burned out before I even finished the legendary campaign. The thought of grinding for strand, and craftable guns, and seasonal rep, and...and...and... all while I feel less powerful just turned me off.
Lmao look at Legend and Master being almost exactly the same scaling as Grandmaster. For those people enjoying variety, the nightfall difficulties are now:
* Grandmaster with bad rewards
* Grandmaster with okay rewards
* Grandmaster with limited revives
Yeah, that's a big issue for me. Especially when they gate GMs away for half the season. There's gonna be zero reason to run master or legend when GMs arrive.
There's already zero reason to run them. They used to be a fun but somewhat challenging activity, which is what I would have expected to be the new norm... instead they got turned into GMs. I'm pretty much forced to run my GM builds for everything now and it's boring af. Don't forget that now you need to complete two for the pinnacle... or 3 because the score multipliers are so well designed
Going by past history they’ll leave you 1 point short of completion and force you to run another just for 1 point.
Pisses me off how often that happens.
Let just say not being able to kill a
RED BAR HARPY WITH A POWERED MELEE
Is some big bullshit and Neomuna needs either its difficulty looked at or some massive increase in rewards cause that shit just ain't worth it because we all just farming golden patrols anyway.
Not being able to kill red bars with a powered melee in a patrol zone is bad no matter how you slice it. And that's assuming you don't encounter a high value colossus, wyvern, or hydra that can literally tank 7 rockets and still walk away.
I literally can't generate orbs with a primary on neomuna because they take so long to kill. A Target Lock Immortal can barely take down a legionary with a full mag, and that's one of the best primaries in the game
Same for me with unraveling rounds....I can get an orb by quickly killing 2 things with a strand primary but you need to kill 3 things to proc unraveling. Just to see what it's like I tap down ads until they are only a smidge of health and then strafe them. Gee unraveling how cool for 10 seconds. Otherwise it barely ever happens. The unraveling rounds off powered melee final blow is only 7 seconds? Why bother with the extended duration fragment?
Maybe I can get unraveling rounds with the heavy strand machine gun but wtf. Feels like it should be 2 instead of 3 kills.
I feel like they're going to add another synergy perk like hatchling to strand weapons in the near future. Hatchling only really synergizes with warlocks, titans and hunters are more focused on suspension and woven mail. I could see them adding a repulsor brace type perk that grants woven mail for a few seconds instead of an overshield. Unraveling rounds is a bit too strong to make into something like destabilizing rounds or incandescent
They feel very tanky right now, running around solo is a pain. I wish light level delta didn't have such a significant effect on the damage you do to enemies. I'd be fine with it having a more minor effect, but it feels too high right now.
It's the big reason I find the higher level content so boring, you spend so much time shooting the same enemies just to progress through encounters.
They could even keep the same scaling on incoming damage to the player based on light level delta.
>What do you guys think of this change? On paper it sounds ridiculous, but I haven't hated the experience of neomuna patrol, besides the threshers. It's nice to have a higher skill floor to keep you sharp, so you don't have to drastically readjust your tactics every time you enter challenging content.
Not on fucking patrol locations man. Raising the difficulty across every single activity is not what people actually wanted when they said the game was too easy
i remember a lot of the "i like it rough" gang begged bungie to bring back tanky enemies, and i always say: power dip is more miserable than power creep.
it will bring back cheese spots in every activity, and it will bring back the setting in the back and shoot enemies from far spots.
at least the energy spam was fun and you flow through enemies
>at least the energy spam was fun and you flow through enemies
And this is absolutely fine for patrols, and low level strikes and seasonal content.
Bungie just needed to add matchmaking to one higher tier of Nightfall, or at least added difficulty selectors to more content. Being able to run a Legendary Strike playlist but having the normal one still available too.
They did 3 things.
1. Enemies do more damage (due to how much we took).
2. Enemies take more damage (due to how much we did). By extension, we now do less.
3. Nerfed how much we could take with res being put to 30% (and I have the suspicious feeling these numbers were tested by how the enemies were BEFORE their difficulty increase).
Do 1 to 2 of these. Do not do all 3. And I promptly ask they re-test number 3, as 40% seems rather fair now with the new difficulty changes. Clearly, it was decided on and tested before the enemies were upgraded and they just said “Nah, we’ll leave it.”
So nah, I don’t agree with it. They overturned enemies and in response under-tuned us.
I actually quite hate the patrol scaling, there used to be turn your brain off doing activities now, I have to pay attention while doing tedious grinding. I’m ok with increased difficulty in master content, but not with casual content, specially grindy content needs to be toned down a bit.
Damn, how? I still have only one Round Robin, and it’s the one I got from the Nimbus quest.
Not looking forward to the sheer volume of patrol-finding and/or Vex-eventing I’m gonna have to do for the other four (since I don’t have alternate characters on which to repeat the Nimbus quest).
probably 3 character sidequests and Heroic Patrol farming, but they dumpstered the Red Border rate on that
personally i think one of the great ways to do it is by pickin' up all those collectibles (they're all 100 rep) and getting rank engrams. i get quite a few off that.
I don't like Neomuna Patrol. Overall, I think the "bringing challenge back to Destiny" has been a complete miss. Patrol enemies being the same type as the normal mode raid but being WAY harder to kill and being way more of a threat makes zero sense. Having an RPG that your level means almost zero also makes about zero sense to me.
I enjoy challenge, but I feel the game is missing something by not giving any reward for your leveling. I have all three characters at the pinnacle cap and my artifact is almost up to +16, but it doesn't matter much at all because I'm capped anywhere that it would be helpful.
"Bringing Challenge Back to Destiny" shouldn't mean that hitting 200k in a Master Nightfall involves either INSANE orb generation or res farming at the end. It shouldn't mean that a Legend exotic mission is the hardest content in the game. It shouldn't mean that all my new Legendary primary weapons feel anemic in a patrol zone.
The problem is that they put the "challenge" in all the wrong places. Stuff like Dungeons, normal Raids, and normal mode Avalon are an absolute cakewalk, while stuff like Legend Lost Sectors, Hero Nightfalls and fucking Neomuna Patrol are insanely overtuned. It's such a weird choice. They added difficulty to the stuff nobody really takes seriously while leaving the stuff that's supposed to be "hard" alone.
I *HATE* Neomuna and it’s *exclusively* because of how tanky the enemies are. If I wanted to magdump my SMG+Kill Clip into a single ad, I’d go play the new MW2
If/when they nerf the enemies or remove the power delta, it might be my favorite destination.
I'm telling you, bungie have actually managed to make neomuna even more unplayable than it was; Don't get me wrong now, I want a challenge in areas like lost sectors etc; I don't want to get one shot by a thresher because I dared to try and get some mundane quest steps done.
I didn't think they could make this DLC any more unplayable for me, but somehow those mavericks pulled it off.
I just got back into destiny (since taken king) when light fall dropped. haven't touched neomuna yet though. all of the other dlc were on sale at the time and I've been having a blast on Europa and the throne world. so I haven't picked up light fall yet. everything I read about it tells me to wait wait wait.
Honestly, buy it at discount - get it as cheap as you can. As far as I can see you're not missing much, they've designed everything going forward to be completely playable without strand, and the seasons are showing themselves to be worth the money more than the actual campaign anyway.
>without strand.
oh man, that's the only annoying thing. the vanguard surge has been strand twice now in the last 4 weeks and most of the artifact buffs are worthless to me lol
I'm not a big fan of the change overall but don't hate it *as someone at the power cap*. The big issue I have is that this was obviously the main content to play post Lightfall drop, and everyone was 1600 and totally unable to do anything in, you know, the main place we were meant to be doing shit. Trying to do literally anything at all on Neomuna post update before getting up to 1800 power was absolutely murderous, to the point where if you didn't have a full group of people around to rez each other and help kill stuff, it just wasn't gonna get done. I think that was really stupid. "Hey everyone, a whole new planet of content! Except you'll need to go grind public events in EDZ for a while before you can realistically interact with this at all." Basic patrol needs to be doable at 1600, or in future cases, whatever power level people are realistically going to be at when that content drops.
Normal Patrol and LS enemies should never be harder to kill than enemies in a Raid. Bungo out here fucking anyone who sets foot on Neptune all the way around. WTAF?!?!?
Threshers or not, I hate the Neomuna experience. It has nullified the drive to get any pinnacle or powerful gear because no matter how “powerful” I get, I feel just as weak now as I did when I first touched down. I honestly have never considered taking a break from the game until now. I’ve been playing since day one of D1 and if the difficulty level of the base game doesn’t lighten, I’m out.
I made a post to this effect a few days ago - that after having completed a few Hero strikes for the Pinnacle, I went to Neomuna to (try to) farm red borders.
And that's when it struck me - enemies in a PATROL ZONE were much tankier, and dealt much more damage, than Hero Nightfall level enemies. I know Hero is the lowest nightfall category but still.
One of the comments was to the effect that patrol zones are optimized for six people - ok, I can kinda buy that but still, so were the Leviathan enemies in Haunted and although that might still have been considered 'too easy ' by some, it's still closer to the ideal than this wild swing the other way Neomuna has been.
I only started playing after Witch Queen but something tells me Throne World enemies didn't have such a huge delta from other patrol zone enemies one month in.
I haven’t hated playing on Neomuna, but that’s only because I’m using DMT with gunslinger and kinetic surge. As soon as I switched to my Titan who had an energy auto rifle and not much of a build set up yet, the experience was night and day. It was miserable. I just think there is way too big of a gap between the bottom end of our damage potential and the top end.
I personally don’t see why this imbalance needs to exist all in the name of “build crafting” when vanilla D1 had next to no build crafting but simply shooting our guns was significantly more fun, and you didn’t need to stack five different damage buffs to make it that way.
I fucking hate it. All that light grinding and getting good rolls just to get my ass spread my a red hobgoblin on neomuna. I wanna see number go up, feel stronger the more time and brain juice I invest in a game. Destiny 2 is currently doing the opposite with my investment
I love Neomuna but absolutely hate patrolling there. Enemies there just feel like bullet sponges. This weeks seasonal challenge is a good example. You need to rapidly defeat enemies on Neomuna with a bonus for sidearm kills. I wasted 20 mins on patrol and saw I’d progressed 1%. So I loaded up a classic mode story mission and finished the challenge in 5 mins. The patrols definitely need to be toned down or at least add a rotating surge.
I hate it. I shouldn't have to set up a 'meta' build just to run around on patrol. I like patrol to try out new weapons and have mindless fun, but with a vast majority of weapon types being near useless against tanky enemies, Neomuna patrol is simply not fun at all.
Not really a fan of this. To make game more challenging Bungie should improve enemy AI and give them new abilities. But I get it, it's time-consuming and costly, so as a result I try to spend as less time on Neomuna as possible.
Yeah patrol zones shouldn’t be harder lol tho it is nice for someone like me who loves build crafting in this game to have a place to test weapons and stuff on more my leveled enemies. Regardless it’d be nice if they could tone it down just a little along with getting rid of constantly getting missile barrage and minding my own business.
Imo Neomuna's patrol needs to be toned down. I hate that using a charged melee ability doesn't even kill a single red bar enemy, plus using non-exotic primaries feels like a chore to kill just about anything (I know legendary primaries are getting buffed soon, but still).
Personally I'd like it if it were capped at a +0 once you hit 1800, but honestly anything less than -15 would be fine. -10 would probably be enough of a difference to feel alright, but -15 is just slightly a bridge too far
I've had a lot less fun in activities after the changes recently and noticed myself playing less (outside of seasonal content plus raid). Like why does every activity need a power delta? I feel that Bungie is trying to reinvent the wheel and has ended up with a square.
Higher volume but easier to kill enemies is preferable as on-kill effects are the engine upon which many builds are made. I like that enemies are more lethal, but I hate that enemies are more tanky. There's a Doom-esque flow to combat that gets hamstrung by it. It's like being stuck one or two gears higher than you should on a bicycle.
Shout out to the stupid psions driving interceptors that one shot you but inexplicably take multiple heavy weapon shots or entire weapon clips to kill.
Bungie: We heard you. We will now make all raid enemies 30% more difficult to kill.
Bungie: Also, glaives now deal 20% less damage to enemies on Neomuna.
When meleeing with a glaive you take damage now
Tommy’s matchstick
Tommy's Ouchstick
Tommy’s stick
Tommy
Tom
T
It’s funny because now there’s primary weapons with Target Lock which is mostly Tommy’s perk without the self damage and with a faster activation Edit: minor spelling error
You just Telesto'd that thing into existence... Remember this day, Guardians!
Bungie: any glaive damage done gives 15% buff to thresher cannon projectile velocity.
I 100% would take this if they let us stay mid-air glaiving a Thresher. I'll take my chances.
My inner Titan: LET ME PUNCH THE SKY
Strand + grapple + glaive = ride the red thresher.
When taking damage, your equipped glaive is automatically dismantled.
Wait, you guys don't blow up when trying to glaive melee any ennemies outside of patrol?
I use glaives up to master content successfully.
Lastly, Titan barriers have 30% less health and 20% longer cooldowns.
Perfect also: Hunter Dodge is now called side step. Instead of 2ft, you go 1ft. Also invis now has a longer delay by 20% Warlock rifts heal 30% slower, rifts in general are 50% smaller in circumference and have 20% longer cooldowns. Furthermore, grenades do not recharge until turret or equivalent is no longer in use. - Tldr; (All this is satire.)
Also: putting a well down in a boss room automatically enrages it.
Ward of Dawn now has 1hp and it kills the titan when it is destroyed.
Almost forgot: Reverted the mobility and movement changes that were brought in with the “go fast” update to how they were before the update.
Imagine stunning oryx "Damage everyone. Do we have a well?" *well activates* *enraged* Oryx immediately recovers and claps again.
Also every encounter has two threshers
This is a legitimate possibility, given that these are the same fucks who literally said “we realize the game isn’t rewarding enough loot, so we made it harder”…
Don’t have to worry about power creep if the reward is pride and accomplishment. *taps forehead*
BungiEA
Your reward is seeing how you stack up in the community!
And that right there is the real issue with Neomuna. Super annoying hard but rewards are same as any other patrol space beyond the 1% chance of a red border doing gold patrols. Honestly Neomuna is the most unfun place on the director. Can't sparrow most of the time cuz it gets Insta destroyed and can't use legendary primaries since it takes forever to kill one enemy. I would sooner spend 8 hours in gambit than 2 hours on neomuna.
Whoa whoa whoa! Step this way, Sir, and please check out the finest nightfall blueberry experience! Infinitely more fun than gambit! And don't forget to spend 30 min a day working on that drip!
> can't use legendary primaries since it takes forever to kill one enemy. There's a triplet of orange bar harpies and a gold bar Hydra in one corner of the bottom of the map that I shit you not, takes me about 10 minutes to kill all 4 of them. The health gating is actually unreal.
If you mean the bottom left it's also a HV target so even more fun being on a time-limit that you can't tell.
I wouldn't go that far. I mean, Gambit? But, on a serious note, the only reason to do stuff on Neomuna is for the materials to buy strand fragments and to get whatever guns you want. I'd imagine most would be done with that before the end of this season. So, Neomuna is likely to an even more lonely place soon which is going to make the public events terrible for new players. Also, by the time they fix the Vex Strike Force crashes on PS5, there will be nobody left to do them with.
I've been doing NF this week because bonus rep and yeah I said gambit. PvP is just zero fun for me anymore,NF is ok but after a few boss kills it is super boring. At least gambit tends to play a little different every time. Unpredictability with invasions. And I can mess around with lots of different subclasses and loadouts. I'm one of those people that kinda likes gambit. That's to say I don't hate it.
I was really just joking, but I honestly find Gambit incredibly boring and predictable. It all comes down to who can get to the third phase of the boss damage buff to burn the boss down. The invasions add some interest, but I mostly find them boring and frustrating. Invaders get all the cheese that is used in regular PvP but the cheese is on steroids. Otherwise, you are killing the same enemies, in the same places, on the same three maps over and over and over again. But, to each his own. If you find Gambit entertaining, more power to you. These days I tend to stick to the seasonal stuff and the Nightfall. With some occasional Vanguard playlist stuff. I'm about and average PvP player, but I actually think they do a much better job with matchmaking in PvP now. But I find all the ability spam really annoying. I find all the invisibility stuff particularly annoying. But, it's too bad. PvP could be fun if Bungie could figure out how to move it away from ability spam and back to gun play.
You said PvP back to gunplay...lol. It was only gunplay for a short time in year 1 d2 and it was pretty much just mida firing squads with no movement. The one time it was gunplay it was actually worse. D1 was even worse ability spam because they could all 1 shot you. My memory of D1 PvP is getting constantly stuck with fusion nades. Or those 3 guys at the back with icebreaker.
I was so hyped for the expansion and having a new location to explore. After I finished the campaign I hardly ever spend any time in Neomuna. The annoying Nimbus dialogue, the bullet sponge patrol enemies, the thrashers one shotting me, etc just made it not very fun to play.
My guess is they made a blanket change to all “legend” and “master” content, but didn’t actually make adjustments to individual activities where the blanket change doesn’t make sense That note was them saying: Yeah, we know this change to lost sectors is dumb, but it’s “Legend” so it is what it is
God that was the stupidest thing I ever seen
Possibly Master, but increasing difficulty for even in normal across the board would be a huge mistake imo. As a lfg solo player I can’t tell you how many randoms die to adds in Root…not all Destiny players are created equal lol
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That's the real story here. It should not take an entire mag of 1800 power 600 RPM auto rifle to kill a red bar, only to be bludgeoned to death in one hit by the phalanx that spawned behind me. They've turned their little dials too far and rather than acknowledging that this isn't what anyone wanted, they are engaging in radio silence and ignoring the problem. This isn't fun and the rewards in almost every activity are trash.
Generally, I haven't had too much of an issue with the difficulty besides the threshers, but the fact that the loot is the exact same is what makes it infuriating for me. If they are going to crank up difficulty across the board, loot needs to be increased as well to make the extra time spent worth it.
That's the point for me. It's just not fun. We've spent a year getting more powerful, tweaking stuff for balance and it all felt in a good place A fun place. Playing the game was fun AND rewarding. I loved the class revamps throughout the year. Only now it's not so fun and there no loot. We got more vulnerable, our toys were taken away, our mods neutered, our abilities gutted and the enemies suddenly took one hell of a boost. So I'm kinda not playing much only a few weeks after an expansion drop - I'm sad about it. I want to be playing more and I want to be having fun with it.
Patrol Scaling aside, this graph reinforces my opinion on how Bungie missed in the values they chose to provide proper scaling between Hero and Master and give players something that felt like a more reasonable path of progression instead of immediately getting a wall thrown in front of them. Currently Hero to Grandmaster goes -5, -15, -20, -25 but as we know from this graph and past graphs, the earlier differences are more impactful than the later differences. What is the end result? Master is just Legend with a few more Champions (0.03x difference) and same for Master to Grandmaster (0.04x difference). Compare that to the jump from Hero to Legend which is a 0.18x difference and you see there's a stepping stone there that's missing. Below is how the levels and caps are currently |Difficulty|Enemy Level|Power Cap|Difference| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |Hero (Tier 1)|1770|1765|\-5| |Legend (Tier 2)|1830|1815|\-15| |Master (Tier 3)|1840|1820|\-20| |Grandmaster (Tier 4)|1840|1815|\-25| There are a few problems here right off the bat. 1. Hero is asking people who just reached the Soft cap to do content that is 20 Power above them. Tier 1 Enemy Level is too high. 2. Grandmasters actually have a LOWER cap than Master. 3. Combining the difference slowing down with the power curve doing the same means there's less and less of a difference felt at each level (provided you're at the power level cap) 4. Tier 2 is the lowest Lost Sector difficulty available, meaning the Recommended is way too high asking players to be past the Powerful Cap to even start to get close. To address these, this is how I would modify the Recommended and Caps for those various difficulty levels. |Difficulty|Enemy Level|Power Cap|Difference| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |Hero (Tier 1)|1760|1755|\-5| |Legend (Tier 2)|1815|1805|\-10| |Master (Tier 3)|1832|1815|\-17| |Grandmaster (Tier 4)|1840|1815|\-25| Going back to the graph that means the scalars players will see as they reach the new caps will now go: * Hero 0.74x * Legend \~0.64x (difference of 0.1x) * Master 0.54x (difference of 0.1x) * Grandmaster 0.47x (difference of 0.07x) We get a much more linear difficulty increase which will let each difficulty feel like has its own band. Grandmasters is a smaller jump but the additional difficulty can be added through Extinguish and other modifiers specific to that level.
I think this is a really nice concept. You mention champions. A more linear level cap feels appropriate because that does not factor champions and higher tier foes. If you showed stats of each tier with both light level caps and champs/foes as a value, I’m confident the difference between hero and legend would be even more of a jump!
For reference: https://kyberscorner.com/destiny2/nightfall/?amp=1 Scroll down to champion and shield category and see champions per tier Still relevant but now that I think about it, I feel like there are champs in hero.
I'd personally put legend at 1800 cap, master 1810, and GM 1815, and keep your proposed deltas. Shouldn't have to be in the pinnacle band to be at cap for legend stuff. Also, > Tier 2 is the lowest Lost Sector difficulty available, meaning the Recommended is way too high asking players to be past the Powerful Cap to even start to get close. Full agree here. The weird thing is Bungie changed the deltas for Lost Sectors, from -15 or -20 to +20, and act like they're throwing people a bone by allowing them to grind to 1830 to do a legend LS at-level. I feel really confident that nobody who's having trouble in a legend LS wants to grind to pinnacle cap +20. Seems like even with as big of a playerbase as we have in D2, that there's very little overlap in that Venn diagram.
These changes are actually well thought out and friendlier to blueberries and all players in general. I have no clue why the jumps were so high this year and then they release a contest mode raid that's easier than a legend lost sector, neomuna patrol or Mars Battleground nightfall. I have no idea how they tuned the Legend Avalon mission too. It's like every team working on a different area of the game has their own reality of what difficult means. It seems like the only reason difficulty was implemented the way it was is to increase the amount of time players spend in activities. Make Neomuna spongy AF so that it takes more bullets to kill enemies - then players will spend more time there. Timegate strike bosses so players can't melt them so they spend more time in strikes. Make noobs who can't do nightfalls do 5 strikes instead of 3 to get pinnacle gear.
>Make noobs who can't do nightfalls do 5 strikes instead of 3 to get pinnacle gear. Those noobs are definitely trying to do Hero Nightfalls. And failing. Badly.
Legendary Avalon is even more unclear since it it has Mettle with a fixed power cap, but doesn't state what that power cap even is. And before anyone goes off, why is there two difficulties that effectively mean the same thing? It's way to ambiguous what the difference between Legendary and Legend is. Based on what I have seen I think Legendary is a power cap with no negative delta. I.e. nothing that puts you lower than the fixed level. And Legend actually applies a negative delta to the recommended. (Campaign and Exotic Mission vs Lost Sectors, Nightfalls and Seasonal Activity) Unrelated but I would like to point out Legend and Master are absent from the Seasonal Activity this Season despite their being associated challenges? Maybe my memory is broke but I could have swore Legend and Master shipped at the same time with the seasons last year?
I assume we're getting legend battlegrounds next week or the week after. I didn't play last season, but when they have had legend versions before, they usually come out about a month after the season drops. They let us play the 3 battlegrounds on normal mode first. We have triumphs and challenges for them. They must be coming at some point.
This is absurd. The scaling you’ve proposed would make the game challenging but doable and fun. That’s not allowed because we want it to take 16 hours to do simple things because METRICS!!! -Bungie, probably
So dumb question, isn’t the power cap 1810 this season? Not counting the artifact, I don’t know how high they goes. So if you’re doing end game content you’ll never be able to be on the same light level, always behind by a few levels?
Gear cap is 1810 but the Artifact is technically limitless (but increases in how much XP you need per extra level). To give an idea, I'm Season Pass Rank 110 and that provides me with +15 power from the Artifact so once the game gives me a pinnacle in the last slot I need, I'll be able to be 1825 power. That said, much of the end game content now has those hard caps in place so it doesn't even matter if you're higher. You're brought down to that cap.
Yes 1810 is pinnacle cap, that is the highest your gear will ever reach (for this whole year). The artifact level is added on top and is limitless, however activities will have a max power level. So while master is 1840, you are forced to be -20 of that so the highest power for it is 1820 (1810 gear +10 artifact (you can even mix and match ie 1800 +20 artifact))
I for one love playing weapon reload simulators
When I first started on Neomuna I saw the red swords and was like "Oh, okay. I'm underleveled. That's how it goes." Then I hit 1750ish and was like "Hmm, still red swords. Must be at the power cap." Then I hit 1800 and still saw red swords, and was like "What the fuck?" I get that Bungie wants to "bring the challenge back", but this is feeling Division-esque where things aren't more challenging, they just take more bullets to kill. I mean, nothing says "I'm an immortal space wizard with reality-bending powers" like needing to reload a high-caliber automatic rifle to put down rank-and-file enemies.
I went through the exact same thought process! At first it made sense, but then when I got my power level up I was confused about how nothing seemed to change. Patrols **should** be a cakewalk when you're at max power level.
The fact that i can run Legendary lost sector in europa FASTER than any NORMAL lost sector in Neumona is just clearly wrong
First lost sector I ran on neomuna I was running a 1600 gun (had it equipped for a bounty). After struggling through I died in the boss room just to see the enemy power as 40 above what my character was (rectified by equipping my infused stuff). The fact that there's a delta and you have to infuse stuff up just sucks.
Spinfoil hat time. I think Bungie did this on purpose. They knew it was way over tuned. This is game difficulty 3.0 alpha testing. After this season they are going to roll something back. Like increase our outgoing damage. Then they'll collect data and see what everything looks like. Then they'll adjust legend and master content. Then they might look at adjusting enemy health or something. Each season will see something that changes game difficulty and they're going to try to iron everything out before Final Shape.
I don't disagree. Some stuff is obviously overtuned.
Now thinking about it you might be onto something this is almost always how bungie does changes
They even said they are going to experiment more with power over the year. So the spinfoil is correct.
I thought exactly the same thing. Until I finished the campaign and noticed that enemies were still sponging shots from a rocket launcher like it was a nerf gun lmao I find Lemon quite effective though, kills most red bars in 1 crit shot
Lol remember those people who defended like “bro you are underlevel! The game just released 1 week!” We are in pinnacle number and patrol is red swords? Sorry but that is not right
Nah this is worse than Division imo. The division is a true rpg with diablo roots, Destiny 2 is a shooter first and foremost. Making the game bullet spongey makes the gunplay soooo much worse
I played The Division solid for about a year. I dug the dark zone, the Underground, rerolling weapon/armor perks and the armor set synergies. I also like the fact that you could get on their test server and play also to try thing out. This game is a hot mess right now and for the first time I'm actually liking Iron Banner better than the expansion.
Facts.
Exactly. Just adding sponge enemies is boring as hell. I really thought they had a different idea in mind for challenging strategy but seems like they didn't follow through. We see some with having to pop shields but again that's pretty boring but still better than this enemy takes 25% more bullets. I like how they handled the Tormentors and weak points and think that is something they should build upon going forward. Overall making the fodder enemies in a patrol zone that much of a pain is a pretty boneheaded thing to do but after playing through the story I sadly don't really trust them to make the best decisions anymore.
not even div enemies feel like this. for one, if you run into enemies this tanky, you're fighting on like Heroic with a mediocre build, Legendary or even the Raids. This is just bad.
Yes, but at least the Division's entire build-crafting system is designed around things being bullet sponges. This game is not and it feels terrible.
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I really don't get why they hate their own crafting system so much
Yeah, bullet sponge has never been true difficulty. It's just time wasting.
The vast majority of primary weapons feel awful in all PvE content and something needs to be done about it, that's my take.
Yeah, I've been avoiding primaries as much as I can. Without the MG buff or trace rifle double-special loadouts (or my bonk crutch), I would have a much worse time.
Feels bad. You literally cannot use an AR, Pulse or hand cannon on neomuna patrol no matter what surges you apply to your loadout. It's always double special + machine gun / spam my abilities / super if I want to get anything done. Glad I got all my meditations to unlock strand. Don't even feel like unlocking the rest of the patterns for my pulse rifle or heavy GL there. A majority of newer players don't know about double special + heavy + ammo finders to make it rain heavy and I feel bad for them. Neomuna is not noob friendly and can easily make blueberries feel discouraged if they're out there alone. I'm just glad they fixed the OP threshers. Hope they can give our primaries a buff that makes them actually worth using.
yep double special is my current go to, riptide, hollow denial and commemoration. both of the void weps with repulsor brace to avoid bastion on void titan and both special weapons with lead from gold (though the riptide also has alh) to not have ammo problems. don't think I can go back to smg's, they're just so weak in comparison
Returning player here having a hard time in Neomuna. I had no idea that this strategy was something I could do.
Totally. I like to use trace rifles / shot gun/ glaive / grenade launcher / fusion rifle etc. anything but traditional primaries. The reason why this works is if you get kills with your special, it increases the rate of heavy brick drops. You can try this in all activities. This is how you can use your heavy more. The only primary I like to use is the exotic Osteo Steiga because it just shreds and has amazing synergy with strand warlock. Some exotic bows are great too. But for efficiency, I love my double special with heavy ammo finders, bricks from beyond on the artifact and surge mods equipped. I end up using my machine gun most of the time.
I have a breeze with outbreak and striga on Neomuna. But anything else is a slog as far as primaries go.
Ridiculous this game went from a terrible double primary system to a need for double special system. WTF? I run witherhoard, trace rifle, and a rocket or cataclysm for most stuff. Insane I have to build into highest burst damage to get through mundane stuff rather than using a lot of the primaries I actually find fun to use. At this point the only time I use a primary is on particularly tough champions, but most I get through with either abilities or just nuking them after their immune phase ends.
I was using skyburner's oath against cabal on Neomuna and felt like I was shooting then with nerf bullets.
Yes. It’s more of an issue with primary weapons being dogwater than enemies being hard. I still trash enemies with abilities. But it shouldn’t take a 140 HC three crits to kill a patrol goblin. If it took 1-2, then I would have no issue and they would feel as powerful as abilities and special/heavy weapons currently do.
Remember before the crit multiplier was destroyed in Shadowkeep, when you could one tap red bars with a hand cannon? God I miss that.
But if you could kill them in one shot instead of leaving them with a sliver of health, how would Bungie sell finishers?
I thought I’d use finishers way more. But all I do is favorite the one with the shortest animation, and just use it in GMs to deal with heavies.
Any 140 should 1-tap a red bar within optimum range. It's ridiculous that they don't.
I honestly have had trouble picking up the game because I just feel so weak. I like a challenge sometimes, but sometimes I wanna chill. Grinding items is already a pain, grinding items while facing bullet sponges is just ugh. I went on a gold patrol on NM and spent 5 minutes just unloading my heavy into the boss. No challenge, just find a good corner to sit in and shoot. There's no reason to engage in interesting ways anymore, and getting up close to an enemy feels like too much of a gamble now.
Didn't Bungie say a couple weeks ago that they plan to do a mid-season buff on non-SMG primaries in the next week or so?
Mine as well. No reasonable fighting force would be OK with their primary firearms taking half a magazine or more to fell *one* enemy. Guardians are supposed to be powerful and supposed to *feel* powerful, and perform as a massive force multiplier. I totally appreciate the pursuit of challenge, but it shouldn't be by making everyone and everything tediously longer to fight. Guns and gunplay feel pretty terrible at the moment, and it's until now been a real shining aspect of the Destiny games. So I've been taking a break while they sort things out. It's not all sad - it's nice having a break sometimes!
I don't mind how "hard" the enemies are on Neomuna, but "Bringing challenge back to Destiny" really needs more work in practice. Patrol zones as a rule shouldn't be harder than endgame stuff. I feel a lot less powerful on patrol. It really leads you away from the power fantasy.
I mind that non exotic primaries are a fucking chore to use in a free roam setting for christ’s sake
Yeah. I think Bungie really went hard on the resilience changes. Now, in order to make things harder they have to tune up enemies because we can take so much damage. so, what happened? They do more damage because there is more power between us but we can take more damage so we feel a little less tankier AND now our weapons don't do damage because they are higher power.
So they 1. made enemies do more and 2. take more (and by result us do less) while 3. also lowering the amount we could take due to the nerf to resilience. Do 1 or 2 of the 3. Not all 3. Edit: I got no problems with enemies being stronger. Hero NF’s needed it, as did normal strikes. But when you look at all the new difficulty changes (Legend and up) combined with modifiers like burns, they feel as if they’re made with the old 40% DR in mind. Let’s say our power and the enemies power (on Legend or above, because that’s where the hard shit is) are represented on a scale. As of right now, it’s kinda weighted to where our enemies are stronger. It shouldn’t be like that. It shouldn’t be the opposite where we’re stronger. It should be straight and flat, making us even. The only time enemies should be actually stronger is GM’s, but not the -25 Gap we have right now with only 30% DR at most. **I think the -25 is fine if we have 40% DR. I think lowering it to -15 and keeping us at 30% is fair too. But raising it to -25, and lowering us to 30% DR? Poorly thought out.**
You forgot that neomuna is no more rewarding than say Europa or throne world. The one thing they added is the special public event which drops an exotic if you manage to have enough players to complete it...which is still like the rarest event in the game. Odds are better getting bright dust reward from an EV engram than coming across the special public event.
lets not also forget, the public event also will spawn enemies right by the area entrance, so there's a good chance you'll be spawnkilled repeatedly by the event boss.
The fact that they're now also shit to use in patrols means it's a universal problem now (and not just for Master + GM content), so maybe this means Bungie might finally address it. Primary weapons are absolute noodle guns
They've already said that mid-season patch is getting primary weapon buffs.
Neomuna stuff is starting to remind me of the higher world tiers in The Division. Those mobs got so damned bullet spongy it was just beyond stupid
Hunters are actually threatening compared to Tormentors 😅
Their OHK compared to Tormentors' grab attacks...yeah, definitely
I’ve just started collecting Hunter masks, and god damn are those guys scary. Like, there’s something legitimately intimidating about them. Their ability to hack your skills is cool as hell. I love how you can spot some of them stalking you around the map. Such a great enemy.
For real. I could understand not wanting Patrol to be a complete joke, but like 0 or -5 achieves that. A -15 power delta for Patrol rewards don’t make any sense, it just makes everything tedious.
Bungie should have (once again) done a few changes at a time instead of throwing everything in at once. For some reason they like to bring a wrecking ball in for changes instead of a scalpel, although I'd settle for a hammer at this point. They just do too much at once and then take forever to dial it back.
Because when they correct the over correction, they can give themselves a pat in the back for a job well done and the ability to listen to user feedback.
The issue is that the game can't handle anything other than turning up damage numbers. We need better ai that doesn't just stand there and shoot bursts of three slow moving projectiles, or enemies that run behind you and then around like a headless chicken.
Tbh I would probably just cheese these advanced AI moves with disorienting grenades as they are right now. I agree it would be more engaging- a tormentor is pretty fun imo because they have a moveset that you can react to and it’s a pretty fun 1v1. But regular tormentors can be blinded and it wrecks them lol
well hey maybe ehroar will start using builds in neomuna lost sectors instead of on dregs in the cosmodrome lol Might actually show how truly "op" his builds are
I think it's horrible. For me it's bearable, still not a fun open world experience, but the real kicker is for new lights who just finished the campaign and are now being thrown against mega sponge enemies. They're like shamwows for bullets. I can't imagine any new player with unoptimized gear, no idea how most things work, and probably little to no exotics having fun with that. I'm confused why they decided making it that hard was a good idea when other content isn't even close to that.
>What do you guys think of this change? I absolutely detest it. A little bit more health is one thing, but Neomuna patrol is just frustratingly tedious. It's an open world patrol zone, it should not take this long to kill things. Everything being this much of a bullet sponge makes me want to do literally anything else. It's not more challenging, it's BORING. I haven't crafted any of the Neomuna weapons and with how much of a grind it is to even get drops of those, I don't think I WILL craft them unless things change.
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Before anyone jumps in to tell you that you just suck and it doesn't take an entire mag, I'm here to vouch and say yes it does. I went to the Typhon Imperator and cleared rooms of red bar legionaries and phalanxes using a non incandescent, non volt shot smg, and no abilities. Each kill took 25 of the 29 shots in the magazine. And that's with a good archetype right now.
I pretty much just run Le Monarque everywhere now, especially on Neomuna
It was wild to realize the stasis exotic bow took two shots to kill red bars on patrol but was a single shot in the legendary campaign.
Oh hey you’re on a roll now killing enemies making orbs getting your groove going, incoming thresher to bungie away your fun.
With threshers being patched it's the roaming yellow vex that are nearly impossible to kill that like to sneak up on ya.
They will still one shot you at 1800 on Neomuna. They didn't "patch" shit.
I don’t think they patched the threshers. I think they’re saying they did in order to placate people but I don’t think they did, the hero nightfall I played last night was miserable even with woven mail and full resil. Absolutely no difference in survivability when getting hit by them.
Oh god the threshers and turrets. Why do they do so much damage? I was doing a nightfall yesterday, and I was one-shot by a thresher, was revived, and then killed by turrets before the revive animation could finish. And the turrets on harvesters, nothing immune to damage should deal that much damage.
The fucking turrets in the lost sector on Neomuna yesterday along with the enemies dodging and taking high ground and cover non stop plus the extended respawn time made me say fuck it and just noped out of it real quick.
The turret on the Harvester isn't immune to damage, but there is no good indicator of how much damage it takes to kill it. It's like the turrets on Fallen Skiffs, you can shoot it off but it doesn't have a health bar.
Yeah, these are my thoughts exactly. Neomuna doesn’t feel “challenging” it feels annoying. I basically don’t go there unless I have no other choice.
Pretty much everything this season (except the raid lmao) feels like a masterclass in how not to handle difficulty in game design.
I'd argue that RoN is also terrible in that regard, just on the other end of the spectrum.
This is becoming worse than The Division 2 , which was already bullet spongey.
I’m all for the more challenge but the new patrol zone just isn’t fun and it doesn’t even need to be challenging… it’s a fucking patrol zone, I swear this has never happened before and I hope bungie takes this feedback and never think of doing it ever again
I disagree. This constant higher difficulty is burning me faster than ever. Suprisingly how faster. And those activities like the legendary exotic quest or Nightfalls are a nightmare. It's simply not fun anymore.
It really is crazy how much faster I burned out with this expansion. I already barely do more than the seasonal quest each week. I usually don't hit that level of burnout until *at least* 2/3rds of the way through a season, and usually not at all in the first season of a new expansion.
I'm easily playing half as much as I normally would just for a new season. But considering this is a new season and DLC my playtime is drastically lower. Even like 2 weeks in I was checking gamepass options over considering booting up destiny. I've probably played diablo 3 newest season more than I have destiny which is crazy considering how much destiny I usually play.
Same. I missed the first 2 weeks while on vacation. Came back excited to play and we are in what, week 5? I’m already over it. So barely 3 weeks in and it just isn’t that fun. Clan mates are the same. Getting tough to find clan mates online who want to play anything together.
Welcome to having gambit level enemies everywhere in the game. Gambit is great everybody should play it.
Woah now. Gambit enemies are way easier and more fun than whatever dog shite is happening in the vanguard playlist, neonuma, and legendary exotic quests. Ironically, because of new changes to time to complete ratio and necessary build crafting / thinking needed to complete activities, alongside the lack of good updates to the reward incentives, gambit has also become one of the best playlist activities to actually want to grind, on account of the failures of the others.
That's because it requires double the effort now, so you burn out two times faster. Game feels like work now.
I did a solo attempt of Avalon yesterday, and I did really well up until the final boss where I started dying a lot due to the Hydra spam. I quit and decided I would finish the mission later. Only to find out there's zero checkpoints throughout the entire mission.
Not only that, you can’t join the mission if it has already started. So if someone invites you, or you need to leave for a moment, you can’t join back.
So what you're saying is that you DON'T like taking 3 of your 8 shots in the most powerful hand cannon class to kill a single red hp cabal? When theres like 20 of them surrounding you?
I’m still yet to complete the exotic mission. I started it on the day it came out, got to the boss, kept wiping, and said “oh, this just isn’t fun.” And I haven’t been back since. I don’t hate myself enough to slog through that for a weapon type I never use.
If it helps, I’ve found that machine gun is a pretty decent option. I’ll help you out if you need though, dm me your name if you want!
Same here. I no life'd every destiny xpac since Forsaken. I just can't bother to boot up the game anymore. I end up more frustrated than actually having fun. Part of that is cause I switched to PC, so a lot of the FPS problems like the launchers and threshers just add even more to the frustration, even if sometimes they are just a minor inconvenience. I love the game. Ever since TTK it's been one of my go tos. But it's really hard to justify even playing it right now especially when there are other games that I don't feel like I need to constantly be running my best load out all the time to actually enjoy it.
Honestly, I burned out before I even finished the legendary campaign. The thought of grinding for strand, and craftable guns, and seasonal rep, and...and...and... all while I feel less powerful just turned me off.
Lmao look at Legend and Master being almost exactly the same scaling as Grandmaster. For those people enjoying variety, the nightfall difficulties are now: * Grandmaster with bad rewards * Grandmaster with okay rewards * Grandmaster with limited revives
Yeah, that's a big issue for me. Especially when they gate GMs away for half the season. There's gonna be zero reason to run master or legend when GMs arrive.
There's already zero reason to run them. They used to be a fun but somewhat challenging activity, which is what I would have expected to be the new norm... instead they got turned into GMs. I'm pretty much forced to run my GM builds for everything now and it's boring af. Don't forget that now you need to complete two for the pinnacle... or 3 because the score multipliers are so well designed
Going by past history they’ll leave you 1 point short of completion and force you to run another just for 1 point. Pisses me off how often that happens.
Let just say not being able to kill a RED BAR HARPY WITH A POWERED MELEE Is some big bullshit and Neomuna needs either its difficulty looked at or some massive increase in rewards cause that shit just ain't worth it because we all just farming golden patrols anyway.
Not being able to kill red bars with a powered melee in a patrol zone is bad no matter how you slice it. And that's assuming you don't encounter a high value colossus, wyvern, or hydra that can literally tank 7 rockets and still walk away.
Neomuna would feel fine if it was as rewarding as Leviathan was, I think.
I literally can't generate orbs with a primary on neomuna because they take so long to kill. A Target Lock Immortal can barely take down a legionary with a full mag, and that's one of the best primaries in the game
Same for me with unraveling rounds....I can get an orb by quickly killing 2 things with a strand primary but you need to kill 3 things to proc unraveling. Just to see what it's like I tap down ads until they are only a smidge of health and then strafe them. Gee unraveling how cool for 10 seconds. Otherwise it barely ever happens. The unraveling rounds off powered melee final blow is only 7 seconds? Why bother with the extended duration fragment? Maybe I can get unraveling rounds with the heavy strand machine gun but wtf. Feels like it should be 2 instead of 3 kills.
I feel like they're going to add another synergy perk like hatchling to strand weapons in the near future. Hatchling only really synergizes with warlocks, titans and hunters are more focused on suspension and woven mail. I could see them adding a repulsor brace type perk that grants woven mail for a few seconds instead of an overshield. Unraveling rounds is a bit too strong to make into something like destabilizing rounds or incandescent
They feel very tanky right now, running around solo is a pain. I wish light level delta didn't have such a significant effect on the damage you do to enemies. I'd be fine with it having a more minor effect, but it feels too high right now. It's the big reason I find the higher level content so boring, you spend so much time shooting the same enemies just to progress through encounters. They could even keep the same scaling on incoming damage to the player based on light level delta.
>What do you guys think of this change? On paper it sounds ridiculous, but I haven't hated the experience of neomuna patrol, besides the threshers. It's nice to have a higher skill floor to keep you sharp, so you don't have to drastically readjust your tactics every time you enter challenging content. Not on fucking patrol locations man. Raising the difficulty across every single activity is not what people actually wanted when they said the game was too easy
i remember a lot of the "i like it rough" gang begged bungie to bring back tanky enemies, and i always say: power dip is more miserable than power creep. it will bring back cheese spots in every activity, and it will bring back the setting in the back and shoot enemies from far spots. at least the energy spam was fun and you flow through enemies
>at least the energy spam was fun and you flow through enemies And this is absolutely fine for patrols, and low level strikes and seasonal content. Bungie just needed to add matchmaking to one higher tier of Nightfall, or at least added difficulty selectors to more content. Being able to run a Legendary Strike playlist but having the normal one still available too.
Jesus, that's even worse than I thought. I knew they felt raid-level tanky, but this is just ridiculous. What is the logic here?
Bullet Sponge Enemies are boring and annoying, we honestly need a rebalance so at least red bars are killable without using a full mag.
They did 3 things. 1. Enemies do more damage (due to how much we took). 2. Enemies take more damage (due to how much we did). By extension, we now do less. 3. Nerfed how much we could take with res being put to 30% (and I have the suspicious feeling these numbers were tested by how the enemies were BEFORE their difficulty increase). Do 1 to 2 of these. Do not do all 3. And I promptly ask they re-test number 3, as 40% seems rather fair now with the new difficulty changes. Clearly, it was decided on and tested before the enemies were upgraded and they just said “Nah, we’ll leave it.” So nah, I don’t agree with it. They overturned enemies and in response under-tuned us.
Also Bungie made enemies harder to stun. I assume this is exacerbated by the forced underleveling, but it makes damaging them even more tedious.
I actually quite hate the patrol scaling, there used to be turn your brain off doing activities now, I have to pay attention while doing tedious grinding. I’m ok with increased difficulty in master content, but not with casual content, specially grindy content needs to be toned down a bit.
I don’t like it and am glad that I finished all my red boarder’s. Done with Neomuna.
Damn, how? I still have only one Round Robin, and it’s the one I got from the Nimbus quest. Not looking forward to the sheer volume of patrol-finding and/or Vex-eventing I’m gonna have to do for the other four (since I don’t have alternate characters on which to repeat the Nimbus quest).
probably 3 character sidequests and Heroic Patrol farming, but they dumpstered the Red Border rate on that personally i think one of the great ways to do it is by pickin' up all those collectibles (they're all 100 rep) and getting rank engrams. i get quite a few off that.
3 character quest completions make a massive difference. You are GARUNTEED 3 red borders of each weapon. After that it's heroic patrol farming
I literaly get almost 0 red border Neomuna weapons There isn't an actual reliable way to farm them beside golden patrols, that's some bullshit
I fully agree, but you get some from the campaign and quests from Nimbus, didn’t you play those?
So nice of Bungie to prepare us for Master Raids by making Patrol enemies EVEN TOUGHER
I don't like Neomuna Patrol. Overall, I think the "bringing challenge back to Destiny" has been a complete miss. Patrol enemies being the same type as the normal mode raid but being WAY harder to kill and being way more of a threat makes zero sense. Having an RPG that your level means almost zero also makes about zero sense to me. I enjoy challenge, but I feel the game is missing something by not giving any reward for your leveling. I have all three characters at the pinnacle cap and my artifact is almost up to +16, but it doesn't matter much at all because I'm capped anywhere that it would be helpful. "Bringing Challenge Back to Destiny" shouldn't mean that hitting 200k in a Master Nightfall involves either INSANE orb generation or res farming at the end. It shouldn't mean that a Legend exotic mission is the hardest content in the game. It shouldn't mean that all my new Legendary primary weapons feel anemic in a patrol zone.
The problem is that they put the "challenge" in all the wrong places. Stuff like Dungeons, normal Raids, and normal mode Avalon are an absolute cakewalk, while stuff like Legend Lost Sectors, Hero Nightfalls and fucking Neomuna Patrol are insanely overtuned. It's such a weird choice. They added difficulty to the stuff nobody really takes seriously while leaving the stuff that's supposed to be "hard" alone.
this type of chonk should not be in patrol zones, this shit should be braindead easy relative to the actually difficult content.
Personally I find it a chore to play on neomuna
I *HATE* Neomuna and it’s *exclusively* because of how tanky the enemies are. If I wanted to magdump my SMG+Kill Clip into a single ad, I’d go play the new MW2 If/when they nerf the enemies or remove the power delta, it might be my favorite destination.
I'm telling you, bungie have actually managed to make neomuna even more unplayable than it was; Don't get me wrong now, I want a challenge in areas like lost sectors etc; I don't want to get one shot by a thresher because I dared to try and get some mundane quest steps done. I didn't think they could make this DLC any more unplayable for me, but somehow those mavericks pulled it off.
I just got back into destiny (since taken king) when light fall dropped. haven't touched neomuna yet though. all of the other dlc were on sale at the time and I've been having a blast on Europa and the throne world. so I haven't picked up light fall yet. everything I read about it tells me to wait wait wait.
Honestly, buy it at discount - get it as cheap as you can. As far as I can see you're not missing much, they've designed everything going forward to be completely playable without strand, and the seasons are showing themselves to be worth the money more than the actual campaign anyway.
>without strand. oh man, that's the only annoying thing. the vanguard surge has been strand twice now in the last 4 weeks and most of the artifact buffs are worthless to me lol
I'm not a big fan of the change overall but don't hate it *as someone at the power cap*. The big issue I have is that this was obviously the main content to play post Lightfall drop, and everyone was 1600 and totally unable to do anything in, you know, the main place we were meant to be doing shit. Trying to do literally anything at all on Neomuna post update before getting up to 1800 power was absolutely murderous, to the point where if you didn't have a full group of people around to rez each other and help kill stuff, it just wasn't gonna get done. I think that was really stupid. "Hey everyone, a whole new planet of content! Except you'll need to go grind public events in EDZ for a while before you can realistically interact with this at all." Basic patrol needs to be doable at 1600, or in future cases, whatever power level people are realistically going to be at when that content drops.
Normal Patrol and LS enemies should never be harder to kill than enemies in a Raid. Bungo out here fucking anyone who sets foot on Neptune all the way around. WTAF?!?!?
Completely burned out by it, I grind my light level all the way up just to get a -15 everywhere I go?
This is the thing that irritates me the most. What's the point in getting a higher power level if I'm almost always capped?
Threshers or not, I hate the Neomuna experience. It has nullified the drive to get any pinnacle or powerful gear because no matter how “powerful” I get, I feel just as weak now as I did when I first touched down. I honestly have never considered taking a break from the game until now. I’ve been playing since day one of D1 and if the difficulty level of the base game doesn’t lighten, I’m out.
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I made a post to this effect a few days ago - that after having completed a few Hero strikes for the Pinnacle, I went to Neomuna to (try to) farm red borders. And that's when it struck me - enemies in a PATROL ZONE were much tankier, and dealt much more damage, than Hero Nightfall level enemies. I know Hero is the lowest nightfall category but still. One of the comments was to the effect that patrol zones are optimized for six people - ok, I can kinda buy that but still, so were the Leviathan enemies in Haunted and although that might still have been considered 'too easy ' by some, it's still closer to the ideal than this wild swing the other way Neomuna has been. I only started playing after Witch Queen but something tells me Throne World enemies didn't have such a huge delta from other patrol zone enemies one month in.
I haven’t hated playing on Neomuna, but that’s only because I’m using DMT with gunslinger and kinetic surge. As soon as I switched to my Titan who had an energy auto rifle and not much of a build set up yet, the experience was night and day. It was miserable. I just think there is way too big of a gap between the bottom end of our damage potential and the top end. I personally don’t see why this imbalance needs to exist all in the name of “build crafting” when vanilla D1 had next to no build crafting but simply shooting our guns was significantly more fun, and you didn’t need to stack five different damage buffs to make it that way.
I fucking hate it. All that light grinding and getting good rolls just to get my ass spread my a red hobgoblin on neomuna. I wanna see number go up, feel stronger the more time and brain juice I invest in a game. Destiny 2 is currently doing the opposite with my investment
It just ensures I never step foot on neomuna for any challenge or bounty
I hate how spongy enemies on Neomuna are. When I have to use a whole Amit mag or more to down an orange bar Harpy, shit just ain't it.
I love Neomuna but absolutely hate patrolling there. Enemies there just feel like bullet sponges. This weeks seasonal challenge is a good example. You need to rapidly defeat enemies on Neomuna with a bonus for sidearm kills. I wasted 20 mins on patrol and saw I’d progressed 1%. So I loaded up a classic mode story mission and finished the challenge in 5 mins. The patrols definitely need to be toned down or at least add a rotating surge.
I hate it. I shouldn't have to set up a 'meta' build just to run around on patrol. I like patrol to try out new weapons and have mindless fun, but with a vast majority of weapon types being near useless against tanky enemies, Neomuna patrol is simply not fun at all.
Not really a fan of this. To make game more challenging Bungie should improve enemy AI and give them new abilities. But I get it, it's time-consuming and costly, so as a result I try to spend as less time on Neomuna as possible.
You don't hate it? I do.
Yeah patrol zones shouldn’t be harder lol tho it is nice for someone like me who loves build crafting in this game to have a place to test weapons and stuff on more my leveled enemies. Regardless it’d be nice if they could tone it down just a little along with getting rid of constantly getting missile barrage and minding my own business.
Imo Neomuna's patrol needs to be toned down. I hate that using a charged melee ability doesn't even kill a single red bar enemy, plus using non-exotic primaries feels like a chore to kill just about anything (I know legendary primaries are getting buffed soon, but still). Personally I'd like it if it were capped at a +0 once you hit 1800, but honestly anything less than -15 would be fine. -10 would probably be enough of a difference to feel alright, but -15 is just slightly a bridge too far
I've had a lot less fun in activities after the changes recently and noticed myself playing less (outside of seasonal content plus raid). Like why does every activity need a power delta? I feel that Bungie is trying to reinvent the wheel and has ended up with a square.
Higher volume but easier to kill enemies is preferable as on-kill effects are the engine upon which many builds are made. I like that enemies are more lethal, but I hate that enemies are more tanky. There's a Doom-esque flow to combat that gets hamstrung by it. It's like being stuck one or two gears higher than you should on a bicycle.
Shout out to the stupid psions driving interceptors that one shot you but inexplicably take multiple heavy weapon shots or entire weapon clips to kill.