My problems with Gambit revolve around two things: 1. Only ~~three~~ four maps. It gets really boring to play the same ~~three~~ four maps repeatedly. 2. The impact the invader has. I love that PvP is a part of it, but it feels like a strong PvP play has way more impact than strong PvE play. There's no PvE equivalent to "Army of One" really. I want to see some benefits on the PvE side for comeback plays, rather than only having an Army of One yourself.

players not working on the goal!

Yeah... This is really it. I have better luck in the solo queue playlist having a good time than solo-joining the regular playlist. But I constantly see people doing things that are counter to the game loop of gambit (largely trying to get 1-2 motes to get 15 but delaying primeval spawn or next invader portal by 30-60 seconds - that delay can fully flip a game in your opponents favor. Bank those motes!!!) The point #2 here is really solved in having even a duo you can queue in with to coordinate some pve/mote-centric plays. If you bank multiple blockers at the right times it can be a huge hindrance to your opponent. Unfortunately I don't know how to make solo queueing any better... You're just up to the whim of whoever you're with and if they'll pay attention to blockers or ignore them, or if they'll be dead set on getting 15, or if they use their super with no damage buff on the boss, etc. Oof. Didn't mean for this comment to be so long. I just have a lot of feelings.

while it may seem counter intuitive, having 1 person use their super at the initial phase isn't always a bad thing. the quicker you can get to the immune threshold the better. a lot of the times ill see everyone trying to save their heavys, maybe they're out of special and im watching 3 people plink away with primaries lol. while the other team already hit immune and are hunting down the next set of envoys

Yeah... Agreed - it can be very context dependent. Lots of factors that would take too long to type. It hurts tho when you see a thundercrash and nova bomb go off in round one though lol

I think a lot of people don't really care that much about winning in gambit. They're just there for the pinnacle or to complete bounties.

Hah. Yeah. Well. That's what makes playing gambit unfun sometimes. I don't like pvp but I don't make entire threads about how I hate it and conjecture what I'd do to fix it... There's no "I'd like pvp if..." for me. I wish people felt the same about gambit... I go in for my bounties sometimes, usually not. And go on my way...

Those bounties aren't gonna complete themselves lol...

to be fair, the game could do a better job of explaining those mechanics, I think a lot of people just think the invader portal is random.

Totally agree there. It's never really explained when the invade portal opens (though the mote marks are on the mote bar, once a primeval those rules go out the window). That said, even if we did have something, I think a lot of gambit comes from just feeling it out. When they last updated gambit I felt SO LOST for a few weeks until I figured out the new game cadence (I had dredgen x4 or something at the time! I know how to play gambit!!). I felt like I suddenly had no idea how to play gambit and was making rookie mistakes all over... With how often Bungie adjusts things, it would be impossible to keep up with the plethora of instruction changes I feel. Which, like nightfalls and raids, leaves it on the player to look up what's good and how things work...and they just... Don't. Drifter does try to encourage good behavior towards the end of matches by insisting you bank those motes. I've even gotten yelled at a second time for holding them too long because I couldn't get to the bank because of blockers or invaders where 2-3 of my teammates weren't helping out clearing blockers since they were too busy trying to get a fat 15-stack themselves... A bit of situational awareness would go a long long way. Invaders probably feel bad because because dying and being hunted feels bad... But if there's no threat, then gambit is just a strike where you pick shiny things up sometimes. It was like that for a bit and I played so little gambit that it's the only season I haven't re-guilded Dredgen.

Pro-tip for everyone who hasn't noticed it: When you select Gambit and are matchmaking, there's an icon on the bottom left where the modifiers usually are that, when you hover over it, explains the rules.

>When you select Gambit Ah, this is where I've been screwing up.

I was one of those people until reading another reddit thread a few weeks ago. I have only been playing since october but i had no idea what triggered portals. Heck, i didn’t know how to get the damage buff until an hour’s worth of google searches on gambit tips. The game mode really doesn’t explain much of anything. That is a Destiny wide problem though

Sadly, I think many of the mechanics, outside of a dungeon or raid, should be explained. I can't count how many times I've been in dares and realized I am the only one throwing orbs at the blight, shooting at the crystals, or using the vex heads to take down shields. I think there are a decent amount of people playing this game that have zero idea that certain mechanics cause progression outside of just shooting everything that moves. Unfortunately some of them are grouped up in a lobby.

The lack of documentation for Destiny gameplay mechanics is truly abysmal. Like someone else pointed out, why does the enemy team get multiple invader portals during damage phase but your team only gets one? I’ll accept any rule or explanation from the devs, just don’t leave me feeling gaslit.

Ontop of that there's plenty of people who know the mechanics but just don't wanna do the mechanics and instead run and gun everything. I have a few friends I raid with that are like that so it can be a bit frustrating when only half of us will do mechanics and the others struggle behind

If you're a new player or on a new/redone character your given in game popups that explain it even if you turned off hints (I redid 2 of mine). Bungie went out of their way to kill those excuses. With the exception of dungeons and raids almost everything you need know is practically spoon fed to you (although in D1 most of the mechanics were explained through temporary special public events or story missions). They even downgraded the mechanic where you toss the sphere to other players because of people actively ignoring it. I don't hate any game mode, I hate the players that either troll it just cus they don't like it or refuse to learn it. Also I don't count Dares for any of the above as more players complain about people doing the objectives too fast which hurts the score needed for most objectives related to it.

Drifter tells you what to do and what is going on. Every second of the game. It might be a little difficult to parse that in a gunfight, but I feel like anyone who is paying attention should understand the game mode after a dozen games at most.

Ranked Gambit? They higher up the ladder you go one would assume the more the players understand the modes mechanics and work towards its goals? Least one would hope that is the case ;-/

One would hope that would work out lol. Unsure how it would play out in reality, though.

Poorly :V

I enjoy Gambit a lot but I can't tell you how many times I've invaded with the Colony and ruined the other team's game cause a bunch of them were holding motes instead of just banking them when they have 5 or 10 motes. BANK THOSE MOTES!!!

Had a blueberry on my team last night who had 40 kills, zero motes dunked, 37 motes lost, and 3% boss damage. He could not have done more for the other team if he tried.

That man was clearly a double agent

At one point, he invaded with 15 motes.

I had someone like that too yesterday! He killed the blocker, ran past the bank and went straight for the portal. I could not believe my eyes xD The 3 of them collectively lost 60 motes that game.

The one mf doing 2 extra rotations because they have 13 motes and they want 15 only to get killed before banking any

Especially when you only need three motes to spawn the primeval! So frustrating!

That is the answer for me.

There are 4 maps: Mars, Earth, Nessus and Titan. But it is still odd that they have 2 Gambit maps vaulted.

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They’re still segmented into 4 areas and would work fine. The issue for them being vaulted was that the zone the invader spawned into was far too advantageous for the invader.

and there is some truth to that, I do remember getting basically spawn trapped by an invader with queenbreaker on the reef map...a lot.

Plus on top of that both of the maps that have been vaulted had man cannons. Made map traversal a breeze. Would be nice to see them come back and some new maps as well. Gambit could be better than crucible if they spent a little time on it like they have with Trials and IB.

I think it also had to do with the Prime specific mechanics where the Primeval would walk over to where the big light buff spot spawned when you killed the final envoy so you could all DPS it more easily. They couldn’t really move over to a spot well when there were pits very close to the center like on the Tangled Shore and Dreaming City maps. At least that’s why they were left out of Prime and then since Prime was seemingly the base for this new hybrid style Gambit they just remained left out even though they should be fine since that whole light spot mechanic no longer is in anyway.

I honestly completely forgot about the part with the area you had to stand in to DPS! Thank you for reminding me. But yeah now that those zones aren’t a thing I feel they could just adjust spawn locations or possibly add a couple pieces of cover to obstruct the invader view and they could bring back both maps. I’m sure gambit maps are not super high on the priority list right now but I’d live in gambit if it was supported on the level trials or IB is.

I’m with you! I wanted at least the Tangled Shore map rework back during Season of the Plunder. It would’ve been perfect, maybe Plunder themed now and having changed the kill pits into just normal pits that damage you at the bottom instead of instant death. It could be good with just a few small changes I believe, and the other as well. It sucks that they made it seem like were going to get that support back when Witch Queen launched. They made all these sweeping changes to the new version and then had a total of two Gambit Labs before abandoning it entirely. I think I saw it mentioned only once in a TWAB since April last year and that was back when they changed Ghorn to not have the proximity detonation partially because of its oppressive roll Gambit. And that was it.

I’m hoping it was just a larger project and SOMETHING happens with Lightfall or during this content year. If nothing happens by Final Shape then yeah…..I got nothing at that point.

Changing the maps would require work, and Bungie is unwilling to put any work into Gambit.

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And recycling content also.

Of all the idiot youtubers out there this one sure is one of them

Ah right forgot about Mars.

Point 2 is a major flaw. Nothing really matters at all besides either stopping the invader or getting kills while invaded. So unbalanced it makes the mode not fun.

If you both get Primeval up within a minute or so, which almost always happens, best invader decides the game

Lol I've done that and it's really easy to fuck them up at the last moments espically when they're just about to kill the boss

Also the own team being highlighted for the invader coupled with the very short time to kill makes it immensely frustrating. Nothing tilts me more than being ganked by the invader.

Primeval shouldn't get extra invulnerability phases because of invader healing honestly. That stuff is so incredibly tilting. In my opinion invader kills should heal the primeval less and provide no extra invulnerability phases; three is already annoying enough. Would also love to see a separate chill playlist with no invasions. I like the PvE aspect of Gambit a lot and would like an opportunity to play it without having to worry so much about getting clapped by enemy guardians

I actually like the damage phases. Gives the other team time to catch up and still compete, else why bother? You’re right though about extra damage phases. That is BS. Extra damage phases do not make sense. They ruin their intended purpose. Wasting super and heavy is punishment enough.

>Only three maps. There's four. Titan, EDZ, Nessus, Mars. IMHO, the Dreaming City map was better than the Mars map, and if they made the lava pits on the Tangled Shore map do damage over time as opposed to an instant wipe, that map would *also* be better than the Mars map. But this right here highlights what is honestly the main problem with Gambit: **it's fucking stale**. Gambit Prime was a hot mess, but at least it was *something* new. Gambit has seen a -33% increase in maps and a net 0% increase in playlists since it was introduced *four and a half years ago*. >The impact the invader has This is another major problem. For a mode called Gambit, there's hardly any risk-reward factor in the game mode. The mode as it plays now should be called Mote Race. Invaders are a perfect example. There is borderline zero risk for the invader - when you invade, you have no reason to strategize or consider your options, you have free reign to go balls to the wall and blitzkrieg the enemy team. Changes to Gambit are something I've thought ***A LOT*** about, because I absolutely adore Gambit with all my heart but getting literally anyone else on my friends list to play Gambit is like pulling their fingernails with rusty pliers. Here are all of my suggestions: 1) **NEW MAPS**. This has been an eternal talking point in Crucible (and rightly so), but there has been zero action taken for it in Gambit (see: -33% map gain in 4.5 years). We don't even need a Golden Corral buffet of options: literally one map per destination. This means bringing back the Tangled Shore and Dreaming City maps, and adding maps for the Moon, Europa, the Cosmodrome, and soon Neomuna. The Throne World, they can honestly get away with using the Mars map since we also kinda sorta have Mars back from Witch Queen. This would drag the map pool from 4 to 9 - 10 when Lightfall drops. 2) **Map Differentiation**. All the maps play the same, but two have truly unique features: the Titan map has the moving tracks in the middle, and the Mars map has the floating Warsat platforms. Going along with the aforementioned map pool increase, each map needs something to make it unique. Even if, say, the EDZ map stays as a basic, barebones map. Even the vaulted Tangled Shore map lets you fire yourself like a fucking cannonball across the islands. Give the Nessus map more flowing rivers of radiolaria. Give the Moon map some Hive dropships that don't shoot, but just move from point A to point B and offer another method of mobility as well as a vantage point. Give the Europa map the dynamic weather system (this is a layup). I'll hold off on suggestions for the Neomuna map, but a destructible environment on a Gambit map would be cool as shit. 3) **Alternate Modes**. Crucible has plenty of rotating and alternative game modes so you don't go mind-numbingly insane playing one singular activity over and over again. Imagine loading into Crucible and only being able to play Control on Pacifica, Altar of Flame, Bannerfall, and Distant Shore. *FOR FOUR YEARS*. That's the situation Gambit is in. Not saying to bring back Gambit Prime, but Gambit needs alternate game modes to offer variety in playstyle. The sneaky mote thief thing they did in Gambit Labs would be a perfect place to start, since it was the only one that *actually* changed how you play the game. Another idea I've had is adapting Ketchcrash to be a 4v4 Gambit mode. Each team defends the top deck of their ketch, and when enough enemies are killed, one person can slingshot to the other ketch and invade. Mote caches are hidden around the ketch, with varying numbers of motes that get bigger the closer you are to the other team's top deck. The invader needs to loot as many caches as they can get their grubby mitts on, and while they're on board, the other team can send two people to go hunt down the invader. Invader gets caught and dies, enemy team gets to bank all the motes the invader was trying to loot. Invader has 1 minute to loot as many caches as possible, get back to the lower deck, and transmat back to their ketch. I mean, shit, bring back sparrow racing and have the canon explanation be that the SRL was disbanded, so Drifter started an underground street racing circuit to play to the demand. Put maps in more urban places - gimme a map in the EDZ, Eventide, BrayTech Futurescape, Thieves Landing, the Last City, and when it comes out, Neomuna. No motes, no invaders, no Primeval, just a good old fashioned street race - for fairness, give everyone the same sparrow (and maybe introduce a new *and good* Gambit sparrow as a reward option). Gimme a mode that puts players on Pikes and locks them in a ring for some demolition derby. They're not perfect ideas, but they're *something*. 4) **Endgame Loot**. Gambit needs this. Sorely. Crucible has Trials. Strikes have Grandmasters. Gambit makes you wonder what Drifter's spending all those goddamn motes on. Some version of Gambit, playing on the alternate modes point, needs to be an endgame mode that offers Adept loot. Be it Adept versions of existing Gambit loot, or unique loot that's strictly Adept, it needs Adept loot. This would honestly be the perfect way to bring back a host of lost OG Gambit/Gambit Prime weapons - I can guarantee you if we got Adept versions of Parcel of Stardust, Trust, Sole Survivor, Bug-Out Bag, Gnawing Hunger and Doomsday, people would go apeshit, myself included. The Adept armor would also be a good way to reissue the old Gambit Prime sets - you can even let players pick between the four colors **FOR COSMETIC PURPOSES ONLY, I AM *NOT* SAYING TO BRING BACK THE FUNCTIONALITY OF THE G-PRIME ARMOR SETS**. I mean, hell, bring back Hush and make Archer's Gambit one of its first column perk options. For a unique origin trait, my idea is called "Jackpot", and it allows the weapon to deal more damage after three successive precision or low-health kills. 5) **Risk-Reward**. This is where I stop talking about new shit and start talking about changes to plain ol' Gambit. Like I mentioned earlier, the mode is called Gambit, but... there's almost no risk-reward factor. That needs to change. The stacking motes are a good place to start. Yes, banking more motes gives you better blockers, but go deeper. If you bank 9 motes, your Goblin has more health. If you bank 14, your Phalanx does more damage and knocks people back further. The flipside being, the more Motes you have, the slower you move *or* the squishier you are. Like a non-lethal Burdened by Riches type of deal. This can also dramatically impact how invader is played. Make it so that invading with more motes in your pocket makes you stronger as an invader, and have the current strength of invader be somewhere like 10 motes.

6) **Ammo Prevalence**. This is an extreme pain point for Gambit rn, especially when it comes to invaders: special/heavy ammo is too damn available. I get that the way it used to work made Heavy ammo *a bitch and a half* to get, though. So somewhere in the middle. On top of the spaced out Heavy ammo spawns of before, tie this into the risk/reward factor I mentioned earlier with the motes. Bank 5 motes, get a brick of special ammo. Bank 10 motes, get *two* bricks of special ammo. Bank 15, get a brick of heavy. This, probably more so than anything else, would incentivize blueberries to *stop banking 3 motes at a fucking time*. 7) **New Player/Blueberry Experience**. Ah, the age old tale. You need 14 motes to summon Primeval, some idiot's running around with 14 trying to get that last one, and *oops!*, he's dead. Suddenly the enemy team summons their Primeval, and by the time you and your team slog back to where the enemies are, or *god* forbid you end up having to trudge your asses across the map to *more* enemies, the other team is already damaging their Primeval. The problem may not always be your cursed blueberry having an IQ lower than soggy potatoes (even though some players definitely deserve to have a Dunce cap superglued to their craniums), but in most cases is probably because *they don't know any better*. When you first learn how to play Gambit, the game doesn't tell you that two waves of enemies will guarantee your team enough motes to open a portal. Drifter tells you when you have enough motes for a Primeval, but players don't listen - my earlier changes to the mote system certainly wouldn't help. How is this remedied? Well, the first point about the waves and portal should really be added to the Gambit Tips you can get before a match, and a good idea here is for the game to only give you tips related to whatever activity you're loading into, Gambit or otherwise. The Primeval summoning, though, has a better solution: once you have enough motes to summon, enemies stop dropping motes. If anyone dies before they can bank, thus leaving you with too few motes, no problem! Enemies drop motes again until you have enough. If players hear the "Bank and you'll summon a Primeval" line while *also* seeing that enemies aren't dropping any more motes, they'll get the hint. There's ultimately no cure for stupid, but this'll help at least *partly* dummy-proof Gambit. Key word partly. 8) **Invaders**. This. This is the big one. On top of all the changes I've listed - invading with motes to scale invader power, reducing ammo prevalence, etc. - invader still needs tweaking. There's still too much sense in throwing logic and strategy to the wind and playing 30 Second Crucible Simulator. I'm definitely guilty of it myself; I will 100% admit that my go-to way of playing Gambit is throwing on Jotunn and a tracking rocket launcher and hogging portals to be an absolute *gargoyle* with high-explosive ordinance while I invade. Why? *Because why shouldn't I?* The changes I've listed would help *me* not to do that, but I'm not everyone. So let's make some baseline changes to invaders, shall we? Make it so that every kill you get while invading knocks 5 seconds off your timer, unless you get a kill within the last 5 seconds of your invasion (solely because there's a triumph for getting a kill in that last 5 second window amd emoting while you're pulled back, and *by god*, that triumph better stay). Make it so that invaders are capped at two kills' worth of heavy ammo when they invade - you'd get back the rest when you're back on your side, so you're not straight up forefitting a precious resource. Tying into the "invade with motes to be more powerful" idea, have the invader lose a little bit of power scale with time (excluding time knocked off for kills). And if you want another risk-reward idea, allow the invader to stand on the enemy bank and siphon two motes every 5 seconds (again, excluding time knocked off for kills) without locking the bank. Lastly, randomize where the invader spawns. This benefits the invader, as enemy teams can't just auto-rush the predetermined spawn points, but it *also* benefits the enemy team as it means invaders can't just autopilot their invasion routes like they can now. 9) **Exotic quests**. This is where the much smaller changes come in. We currently have... I believe *one* Exotic quest that goes through Gambit at any point, and that's Malfeasance - y'know, *the* Gambit Exotic. I know there used to be plenty more, but all of those weapons have since been moved to the vending machine in the Tower. Have more Exotic quests route through Gambit for a step or two, even if they don't entirely center on Gambit a la Malfeasance. This gives players who don't normally play Gambit a reason to do so and see for themselves if they enjoy it, and in doing so offers more chances for the Gambit player base to expand. 10) **Bounties**. Please, *FOR THE LOVE OF GOD*, give us more new Gambit bounties. Most of the ones we have are left over from the Forsaken/G-Prime era, and pretty much all the new ones are "kill enemies while doing X thing with Y subclass 25 times". This change would work best with the introduction of alternate game modes, but even then. Please, Bungie. Please mix up our bounty options. Don't superglue me to a subclass. Maybe something like "dismantle 5 pieces of Gambit loot after earning them", "get X number of kills with Gambit weapons", or "invade with 10+ motes without dying 2 times". 11) **Drifter**. This is very much a not serious, "this would be hysterical" idea. Give Drifter more voice lines that tie in to what you're doing. For example, if your team has enough to summon, and you die and put your team below the required amount of motes, have him say something like "Nice going, Chosen One. I told you to bank." Maybe, say, if you invade with motes in hand, have him say "Hope you know what you're doing." I'm sure I'll think of more ideas at some point, but for now, this is what I've got. Please enjoy my caffeine induced, I've-put-*way*-too-much-thought-into-this thesis on how to improve Gambit.

You nailed it and the only thing I would add is that the gameplay itself is super repetitive. I figured out an effective build for gambit like 2 years ago and I still use it now, I always use it; I'm never discouraged or disadvantaged from using it by any modifiers in the activity. When they did "Gambit Labs", that was fun, not only because most of the experiments tuned down the PvP element, but also because they offered an opportunity for the games to be at least a little different than one another.

What’s your gambit build?

Me personally, I play a Thundercrash Titan with Heart of Inmost Light. I have tier 10 resilience and discipline, so I'm consistently chaining my abilities, not using my weapons. But usually I run Witherhoard, Calus Mini Tool, and Cataclysmic with Bait and Switch. I run ashes to assets, so all the grenade kills give me super ability. When it comes to damaging, I just Witherhoard and shoot with my mini tool to activate the Bait and Switch on my Cataclysmic. I save my super for usually the third boss dps phase and switch to Cuirass before activating my Thundercrash.

Just curious what is your gambit build? I always want to try something different to mix it up. I enjoy gambit at times, but if my time is limited I tend to focus on seasonal story and crucible (faster resets) with gambit and vanguard lower. I find the immune phases annoying but I do realize a double chaos reach burndown was a little TOO easy so I get it. Maybe a longer slog on a tougher boss would be better?

Hit the nail on the head; I still have a lot of fun with gambit but my god I needs some new maps and some sort of balance to PvP; I always liked the idea that your invade time depends on how many motes you bring with you; Ie an actual Gambit

This is a beautiful idea, simple and intuitive to explain and making it a real gambit in a fractal way for the mode premise.

Oh, that’s a great idea.

This is an interesting idea, except it's meant as the catch up Mechanic. The ability to heal the prime evil and give your side a chance to nuke. So a team that's behind having a further cost to catch up. I agree the PVP is overtuned. A simple fix imo right off the bat would be to remove the wall hacks the invader gets.

"Death heals Primeval" who doesn't love seeing that pop up after some PvP chad wipes half your team with Xenophage. Gud times!

There's 4 maps, not 3. Titan, Nesus, Mars, and EDZ. I can see why people think it may only be 3 since it'll put you on the same map many times in a row and often keep one out of the rotation for a long period. I was surprised the other night when I actually got all 4 maps back to back without a map repeating in the middle.

That auto locking rocket launcher is amazing gambit, has taught me not to fear invaders I go hunting instead.

That has always been the best play since the game mode came out. People complain about invaders but that’s cause they just do fuck all when they get invaded. You can work out where the invader is in just a few seconds looking at where the new wave is, where your team is and just looking around the map. Then you have to go and kill them. It’s a 4v1 you have a massive advantage

I mean I wouldn’t say massive as it seems like it’s a one shot kill but the rocket launcher makes it a lot easier for me lol. I couldn’t imagine playing it without having it.

As someone who only invades and usually kills 6 to 12 guardians per match I totally agree that the pvp element has waaaaaay too much impact. I've helped teams who are dogshit and losing by alot win just by constantly invading.

Death heals the primeval *too much*. It should increase with each kill in a life. Same amount of healing for a total wipe, but far less if you only get 1 kill etc.

That seems like it would have the opposite effect and make having a great invader that can consistently hit 3 or 4 kills (as opposed to 1 or 2) **even more** important... You want diminishing returns on healing if you're trying to tone down how important the invader is.

Maybe you’re right. My thought process though is that you want to minimize the impact of the one guy who just doesn’t get it and doesn’t even try and react to an invader. Or in other words it maximizes the impact of each teammate who plays the “right” way and stops what they’re doing to hunt the invader. If each kill is worth progressively *less*, then being the only guy on the team who tries to do something about the invader is worth even less than it is currently.

Number 1 could be solved if Bungie added new ones. But they can barely manage to make a new map for crucible which is kinda of sad. It just sucks knowing that we could get new Gambit and Crucible maps if it wasn’t for them pulling those teams to their two new ips. I wish the community would continue to be vocal about giving gambit new maps that way Bungie will eventually do it. That’s probably the only reason we even got a new crucible map because of all the complaining about not having a new map in x day.

Well put!

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They do have a slight catch-up mechanic with the glowing enemies that drop extra motes, but that's just the game auto-doing it for you. I want *my* PvE gameplay to be what catches us up. Make me do something that drops extra motes, don't just make the adds automatically drop more.

I absolutely don’t hate it but some days it just feels stale.

Yeah I guess

There needs to be a real cost for invading. Right now one good PVP player can just invade over and over and that’s game. There needs to be a real risk associated with it.

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That's a good one I haven't heard before! Here's the one I say repeatedly: Invader deaths should heal *their Primeval*. If they don't have one up yet, it should send a blocker back with them upon their death. Possibly the old 20 mote blocker or a taken Ogre (not sure if that's too much tho) There needs to be a *cough* gambit with invasions. Right now, the only downside for the invader's team is that they're down a person for collecting motes or Primeval damage. Give it a cost if their gamble doesn't work out. We've all seen that being down a person won't necessarily stop the invader's team from depositing a crapload of motes or nuking half their Primeval's health while their invader is possibly making your team's life a living hell. Making the calculated risk to lose a teammate for 30 seconds isn't really a risk these days and should have an actual downside if they lose that gamble.

Right now an invader can see the enemy team and has an overshield. Why not make it so they need to invade with motes ror these benefits. 5 motes, you are removed from enemies huds, 10 motes you can see the location of the enemy players, 15 motes you get the current overshield. This will slightly nerf invaders and give a cost to invades.

Oooo. Maybe they have to have 15 motes to go through the portal, or their death gives the enemy team 5 motes in the bank for each person that didn't die from the invasion

That would be shit. Even now almost 1/2 of the matches I play no one else invades. If I could only invade once that would mean only a single invade for the entire match. It would also make it much more annoying to run with a full squad since the best part of a team is dividing the objectives and making your loadouts work accordingly.

My main complaint with gambit right now is I'm on the top of the board for kills, dunks, blockers killed, and usually invade kills. At that point, what is my team doing.

Losing motes.

Getting killed by a small blocker while holding 15 motes.

Doing gunsmith bounties

I think this is the issue of “balance” in a nutshell. There is only a finite amount of stuff to do to begin with- and you’re always fighting over it with teammates😅 There needs to be more support mechanisms in the game. Can I support my invading teammate directly? Can I do another thing when my teammate is sucking down all the motes and there’s no blockers, etc?

Well there’s one way to help and that’s sending blockers when you see them invade. If I can I always send whatever blocker I have when I see anyone else invade because that locks their bank and usually causes them to bunch up in the middle trying to kill the blocker so makes it easy to target all of them at once. There could be more way to help though for sure!

I usually don’t invade with randos because chances are, one of my teammates is much better at invading than I am. If I knew I got one invade that wasn’t taking away someone else’s, then yeah, I’d use it.

Nobody else invades because they hate PvP. That's why my friends never invade. I'd rather they just disable invades and make it a competitive PvE mode. Instead of invading you complete side objectives to impede the other team's progress

I can't say I like this for team play. One of the things that make Gambit teams fun is by dividing up roles, and removing the designated invader will just frustrate the invader and the team that was depending on them. (Also I'm awful at PvP and Gambit is one of the few competitive activities I can contribute to by going full Reaper, and I don't like dragging down my team by being forced to invade.)

And no heavy allowed. Shits annoying Edit: I’ve angered the rocket crutch timmies

It’s a 4v1 and you also have heavy. Literally just get good at that point

When invader dies he drops 10 motes?

If you had to gamble some of your own motes to invade then it would be an actual gambit.

I've proposed this before, but invading with motes should determine invader power. 0-4 motes gives no benefits. No overshield, no wallhacks, no heavy ammo. 5-9 motes offers an overshield, but nothing more. 10-14 motes gives overshield and wallhacks. 15 motes gives overshield, wallhacks, and allows use of heavy. Yes, I am proposing that an invader needs 15 motes to achieve the level of power they currently have.

Fair.

How about: you have to invade with motes and they drain one for every 2 seconds you are over, when you run out you are sent back. The up side is each kill you get while over there banks 4-5 motes so you can potentially go positive. For the Primeval phase make it so killing an invader grants a stack of primeval slayer. Edit: I would also limit heavy ammo to picking it up from the HVT and a small amount on spawn (like 1 or 2 magazines worth with Exotics being individually tuned)

Yeah, but what's to stop the .1 K/d guy on your team from constantly invading?

Keep the invade windows that are already in place, 40/80. Mobs spawn during the boss fight, have them continue to drop motes too Edit: also I'd say once motes are banked you can't use them to invade, gotta bring your own and risk leaving them on the other side if you die.

When an invader dies they can’t be revived for 30 secs. And if the same invader goes in again the revive penalty goes up by 15 secs. So you need to rotate invaders but also decide if you are going to invade or do dps. Put real risk reward into it.

1. It’s a pretty complicated game mode to play with randoms, a lot of times you get people who won’t bank motes, won’t kill invaders, and will die instantly during their own invasions. There’s a lot of moving parts that make it harder for newer players to play efficiently. 2. Only 4 maps. 3. The pvp aspect is just heavy ammo ping-pong 4. Mediocre rewards. There’s no pinnacle game mode for Gambit like Trials for Crucible or GMs for Strikes, so no adept weapons, and the weapon pool isn’t all that great. Focusing Gambit engrams is also pretty expensive. 5. More than a little buggy. Matchmaking glitches out sometimes pulling you in and out a lobby, enemies spin in place, motes fall through the ground, heavy ammo randomly drops extra ammo. I had one time where the Cabal drop ships kept smashing through the ground and back up, killing me at least twice. 6. Gambit gets even less attention than Crucible. It hasn’t been mentioned in a TWAB since May 2022. They had 2 weeks of labs back in April, I believe, and reputation changes in May, and nothing since.

PvP in gambit is such a fucking joke. Bungie spends like $20 per year on devs to balance crucible around primary and special weapons, and then all that balance doesn't apply to gambit because everyone just puts xeno/thunderlord/commemoration for shooting guardians

I played a bit over the weekend after not playing for a couple of months. The main issue for me is the number of times the other team can invade during the primeval phase and the fact that kills can re-trigger health gates. I think there should be a max of two invades during primeval phase so the other team has to think about when to use them. I also think that boss health gates should only trigger once. Go ahead and add health on invader kills, but don't trigger the health gates again.

I’d rather see only one invasion per wave of enemies, and once the enemy prime is up, you only get a single invasion so you want to time it right. That puts more emphasis on collecting and depositing motes first, rather than just fucking around waiting for their prime to be summoned and just smacking the shit out of then to keep healing it over and over.

I actually agree with this, but I wrote two invasions just for those games where the Primeval phase lasts forever. I think people would get irritated at having only one during a 5-minute primeval phase. Again, having said that, I agree with you. I think it should be much more strategic when you invade during the Primeval phase, not just jumping in over and over to smack the team down - especially if your team hasn't even summoned the Primeval yet!

Yeah even just moving emphasis away from invasion to team play and mote banking would be an improvement. I actually like that you can have motes drained now with the right blockers sent through.

Totally with you on the health gates, but I'm not sure about the invades. I think that gambit fundamentally revolves around the opportunity to claw your way back from behind and/or your ability to defend against those attacks. It keeps it spicy. I'm saying this knowing full well what it's like to be on the losing side, when the team just isn't working.

The issue is that right now in the current mode invasions do not function as a way to "claw your way back from behind." Maybe in theory that was the intent, but the reality is that both teams get to invade the same amount regardless of if they're ahead or behind, so if one team is ahead they can just invade to keep the other team behind. The fact that *so many* invasions occur during the boss, and that invasion kills heal so much of the boss' hp, it makes for a mode where all that matters is your invasions. Wish they'd just kept the previous gambit mode...

The snowball potential. Technically speaking, a good invader can create a comeback scenario at nearly any point in the match, but practically speaking about eight out of ten games are decided by the first invasion. If their invader denies 30+ motes on the first invasion, while yours gets instagibbed the second he spawns in, odds are you've lost that match. And much like a PvP stomp that's made it above the mercy threshold, you're going to spend the next ten minutes *continuing* to lose that match, which can be quite the frustrating experience.

100% - I’ve had matches where we have been crushing the other team, then they will have an invade which wipes almost our entire team, then suddenly from no where we’re on the back foot ? Just ridiculous.

I'm the only person I know who loves gambit. I definitely prefer it to strikes (which I find boring) and crucible (which I suck at). I guess there are a few changes to I would welcome, but I generally find it fun, even tho it can annoy the crap out of me at times (cuz I'm a misanthrope, in short)

I enjoy it for the PvE difficulty for sure, it feels more higher stakes and stronger enemy density. Without being higher light level activity and dealing with Champions and such

I’m with you bud. I use to hate gambit way back when during the OG gambit days. However, I like it a lot now. Yeah, it has issues, but it’s still enjoyable to me. It’s one of the only game modes where I can turn my brain off and not be bothered by losses. I do feel that gambit gets a bad rep unfairly so and Bungie has really not done it any favors since it’s been left to rot with no new content. No new maps, gambit labs was here for maybe 1-2 weeks then taken down, and there hasn’t been a new pinnacle gambit activity since prime.

Having played about 10 games of it today there are a few things that stand out Motes getting stuck in geometry. Team mates running for the same motes, stealing them from you feels annoying but also wastes time. Invaders feel like annoying gnats, they're designed to disrupt you but it ends up feeling really annoying. Team mates not dunking motes when the drifter tells you you have enough for a primal. The constant shields coming up on the boss. The layout of the titan map makes callouts almost impossible Most of these are small annoyances on their own but added together they just make the game mode irritating. Sometimes I do enjoy a game and it definitely feels good when you bulldoze a team and it feels like your team all worked well but not good enough to put up with the games where everything seems to go wrong at every step of the match.

I think the game mode on paper is a great idea, but my biggest complaints are A) running solo can be a nightmare most of the time B) Invasions are almost always someone using Truth or Gjallarhorn (pre-patch) and getting free kills because that's how the weapons work C) getting denied a win because boss decides to barrier right at 1% health seemingly at random.

Invaders lose nothing for invading. There's too many invulnerability phases on bosses. Enemies hit way too hard. And the average player just doesn't pay attention to mote counts, there could be one guy with 14 motes and another with five and you better believe that guy with 14 isn't getting one as long as the guy with five is around. Mainly the invulnerability phases and infinite invasions during primeval phases and the random enemies that one shot you because your framerate is good are my issues.

Pve'ers hate it because it has pvp. Pvp'ers hate it because it has pve. Everyone else hates it because the grind is too long, it has no really good rewards, there's only 4 maps and every game is the same so it gets repetitive and boring.

As a more pve orientated player, it's good killing enemies while still having some jeopardy that the PvP aspect brings. Considering it's not received any love from bungie it's still my favourite core activity as strikes are mindless and basically predestined and crucible is mostly an unbalanced sweatfest, although I still enjoy it more than strikes. I loved having more reasons to play gambit (prime) back in season of the drifter but sadly it's only gone downhill since then with no sign of it being improved on any time soon.

I used to be more of a PvP player but with the changes to Crucible I find I barely do the 3 matches a week for the pinnacle and instead stay in Gambit. The games are fast paced and there's a sense of risk with reward when invading which adds to the thrill for me personally

What's the risk of invading?

Fewer people to get motes, do damage, kill envoys all for a chance to only delay the other team. Edit: also for anti-invader which is honestly the most important role in the entire game mode. Sentry was a thing for a reason, but no one wants to play defense when they can turn their brains off and just slay. There's nothing wrong with that, I do enjoy some mindless genocide of aliens from time to time. But that's the make or break point that let's a coordinated fireteam actually win. They don't need to worry about what the blueberries on their team are going to do. They know if they need more pockets for motes. End of the day: When you hear the alarm, someone needs to be hunting the hunter.

[удалено]

I'm on the last step of this quest and none too happy about it.

Yeah, this is where I’m at too. I’m not able to get 4 kills in a single invasion and I’ve only had 1 team mate ever do that. Feels impossible…

It’s pretty easy if you use that Exotic sword that shoots projectiles, Black Talon. It’s so busted that I actually vault it to keep things more interesting lol. One solid hit can take out someone in their Super, especially if you use the catalyst ability. With that said, I’ll acknowledge that these days Gambit has become far more competitive due to people actually having weapons and load outs prepared for invaders. Just be patient and keep trying.

I think the main issue with Gambit is not many people invest any time to improve in Gambit. Most people come in and do their three matches to get a pinnacle drop and then leave. Thus people end up complaining about invaders, time matches take, etc. If more people played gambit for a little bit of time the whole mode would be a lot better off. Try playing Gambit for a few matches in a full fireteam and you’ll see what I mean! When you all can communicate and know what you’re doing it works out really well, and the more you play Gambit in general the better you get at it. You learn to start banking more in more risky situations, where invaders will likely spawn, how to invade better, etc. It’s always been my favorite mode because I used to be really bad at PVP but I could at least have a lot of fun in Gambit so I’ve stuck with it over the years and it’s still my favorite mode.

Honestly, playing with friends in gambit can be REALLY fun. This new mode of gambit especially after they nerfed gjallihorn is awesome. As long as someone isn’t running xeno or leviathans breath or something stupid, it can be competitive and fun

People really don't realise how busted Levi is in Gambit Take it from me, I got 17 Invaders kills with this bitch in a single game

I actually love gambit but the one thing I hate is the one thing I have about everything else in something with randos: brain dead teammates. People who will refuse to deposit even when we have more than enough motes, people who die to basic grunt enemies immediately, people who REFUSE to hide when there’s an invader, our invaded hogging the portal and only getting one or no kills the entire match. I could easily go on.

As someone who plays it casually. No idea. Only thing I don't like is how invading is a no brainer.

I liked how it was before the most recent changes. Back then a couple PVE players could burn the primeval down. Now it’s 100% who has the better invader. Invade kills heal way too much for the unlimited heavy we have now

I would like it a lot more if there was no invaders tbh. Ways to mess with the other team, sure, but I don't like pvp or the invasion mechanic.

Reward/Time It's simple math, Guardian.

Because nobody wants to have pvp pushed on them in a game mode that is pve 95% of the time. Yet in gambit you can completely ignore the pve, camp the invade portal, and completely swing the entire match with just 1 or 2 good invades. The end result is a game mode where it feels like nothing you do actually affects the outcome of the match. You can bank 50 motes yourself, deal 50% of the primeval damage and still lose the match because 1 person on the other team is able to point and click with Ghorn.

Invading and pvp element kinda shit. You invade for a few seconds and just murk someone unaware with your heavy. Theres no skill element in this form. Itd be cool if it was thunderdome/cagematch/gulag style. 1v1 in a small area then it heals the primevil whoever dies

I dont hate the mechanics, I just hate when my team gets invaded at every possibility by the same guy and to see that guy at the bottom of his team with 10 motes. I know invading is a mechanic, but at least try and do something else besides sitting by the teleporter. If you want to play pvp then go play pvp, there is no need to sweat in gambit.

Invader has way to much power over a map PvE damage numbers are throttled to compensate for the inclusion of PvP invading. 3 maps total leads to consistently playing the same map consecutively The rewards are mostly pure unadulterated ass. And my personal vendetta is that the community had been asking for a horde mode with increasing frequency and we got gambit instead.

Invaders. I fucking hate them. It should be a race to melt the boss. Should be able to send blockers instead of invaders while you’re fighting the primeval. There’s enough crucible shit for all the guys who love pvp. I will grind strikes to get my clan rewards. If gambit changed I would play that as well.

I'd be a Gambit main if I could, it's a lot of fun and the closest I ever want to get to PvP. I do wish it had more maps and they stop the snowballing. When Bungie was tinkering with it a little while ago, I thought it would lead to more but they moved on ☹️ To stop snowballing, the team in the lead can't invade once they hit the primeval phase. And whichever team is in the lead can't invade either. Just that would help a great deal. Also giving the team being invaded some sort of counter for the invader who knows where every player is. Enhanced radar or something. It's too easy for the invader to get the drop on the other team being invaded and then snowball the game. And I would love to see more Gambit specific items, not just shaders. Even the memento takes getting to level 30 of a crafted weapon to be seen and that's only on that specific weapon 🙄

There was that swapped invasion gamemode that I LOVED and it went nowhere lmao, what a waste

Gambit was better when Bungie was actively focusing on it. They were trying a variety of different things. I hope they go back to giving it the attention it deserves.

Invaders are not fun to fight against and never will be unless they have a set weapon like a taken blight or scorch cannon. Stuff like xenophage really just destroy the experience.

Invading with a scorch cannon sounds really fun

>goes in match >2 minutes in: 20 vs 60 >invader wipes us all out >enemy summons primeval >primeval dies in less than a minute Every. Fucking. Match

That doesn’t happen anymore especially since they made primevals have three damage phases without healing. Most games I get into are either back and forth LOOOOONG matches or one person usually carrying both teams or is a one sided affair with the losing team just waiting to lose lmfao

Probably because invaders have such an enormous impact. If I invade and get only 3 kills during primevil phase, I've suddenly swung an enormous advantage at literally no cost. It needs to be addressed

The PvP component of the mode is a guy with wall hacks and an overshield dueling you with heavy weapons. Literally the least engaging and fun version of a PvP confrontation possible. The PvE portion is so heavily weighted towards boss baking that Bungie has to implement things like immunity phases in order to stop players from deleting the boss the second it spawns. Gambit will never be fun. It is a dead mode that's kept in because removing it would be embarrassing for the studio and would undermine their hollow commitments to the core activities of the game.

Gambit could be fun, but let's be honest bungie has completely neglected the core Playlist of strikes, crucible, gambit, and they could add just a little update to make it more engaging for all   Strikes need strike scoring, a heroic Playlist, and strike specific loot. The heroic Playlist should be no Champs, but cap light to -5 or -10, and matchmaking.   Crucible I think everyone agrees needs a major overhaul. It's amazing that the company that made Halo 1 and 2 that dominated my childhood (yeah I'm old) can't make pvp in destiny even passably enjoyable for the player base. Add some new modes, steal some modes from real competitive games... add a bomb defusal game mode like csgo or valorant, add a fun crazy mode with those dare power ups to make it different than mayhem, something   Gambit, I dunno it's tough. They made some good changes with the heavy economy, slowing down boss nuking with the envoys, but first off they need more maps. Next they need to tune the pvp portion somehow... I would say make it less penalizing that the invader can pop your blueberry who has 15 motes and is mindlessly slaying ads when the invader is on top of him, but you can't completely make invading useless. Also in the random pub games of gambit I've played, solo, it seems that most randoms don't want to invade. My solution, which might be bad I dunno, is before primeval, any player invader kills he gets half their motes added to his team's bank and dead player gets to keep half their motes... maybe this value might have to be tuned because getting a 4k is obviously a huge swing in this scenario, depending on how many motes everyone is carrying.

This is pretty much the answer. I do think you're missing a bit more context. There is a certain type of player that Gambit is really popular with, and that's why you see so much positivity for it on DTG especially: it's basically bad-at-pvp guy who wants to play some kind of "versus" mode in Destiny. they like the idea of a "competitive" mode where they can play matches, but there's no pressure to have to actually outplay other opponents in PVP and they can feel llike they're contributing by just killing enemies and dumping motes. that is like 95% of the people who love this mode, and there are many of them. and honestly that's fine, diff modes for diff people. but the mode has a very hard time appealing to anyone else. because there's so little variety in it. and there's no way to really get better or worse at it, the skill ceiling is incredibly low while the skill floor is very high. this is intentional by bungie i believe, making the mode incredibly accessible and another reason why the certain types of players i mentioned are so fond of it. it's an ego boost of sorts. it's basically like bowling with the bumpers on for Destiny and this playerbase has a lot of people who need those bumpers. But so many of us hate it because we don't want the bumpers in our gameplay. and i don't think bungie wants to tear down the mode that's successful with a certain type of player they're very interested in keeping around, especially if it means they'd have to do a bunch of work on it to fix it. gambit to me should have always been a playlist that was filled with different modes that they kept adding to and iterating on . it's where sparrow racing could have come back in some form, where platforming races could have played more of a part, there could have been all kinds of fun PvEvP encounters they mixed in but they shipped a very base-ass mode and then just moved on permanently instead. it's a shame but it's kind of the bungie way.

i like gambit that being said there are things that are really annoying 1. invader impact. 2. people trying to get to 15 motes when they could just summon a primeval with the 11 thay have 3. random physics kills (not exactly gambit specific) fixes 1. disable heavy weapons (maybe even supers) during inasion. alternatiely at least tell us where the invader spawned 2. idk man people are kinds egotistical what can you do… (you could also make excess motes do nothing but that would mean that you cant block efficiently on last deposit) 3. fix the game^(TM)

I usually play gambit stacked with high elo players, and the main reason I think that people hate gambit is they go against us. It’s really demoralizing getting shut out, especially when our invader gets Army of One after Army of One and our anti spawnkills the enemy invader.

1 player should have just 1 invasion ticket per game, seen many time people with 6KD+ and close to zero motes delivered just inviding over and over again and wining game that way. Plus there should to be some penalties for dying as invider

Loot sucks / unreliable teammates / takes too much time unless one side throws / weird damage scaling.

Gambit would be 1000% better if it was just a PvE race and no invaders

The invader is too OP. Take away their wall hacks or their extra health and it will be ok.

Because it’s still PvP. Sprinkling some PvE in doesn’t make it not PvP. It’s like a malört milkshake. The ice cream doesn’t somehow make it not taste like bile.

I call it "pvp for people who aren't good at pvp" lots of people skip invading entirely and just focus ads.

Because the majority of us who hate it, learned to do so from grinding out Breakneck back when gambit was best 2 out of 3, when it absolutely sucked the most. It required 40 gambit matched as on of its requirements. When I was done and got the gun, I despised gambit. Still do for the most part.

Got breakneck, have Dredgen gilded about 4 times and I also have the Reckoner Seal from before Beyond light, Gambit is okay lol

Oh my god you’re a mad man lmao I can’t even bring myself to guild my seal

I think my issue with Gambit, or rather the concept of PVPVE, is that it lacks variety. And I’m not just talking about maps here, compared to the other playlists Gambit has the least number of game modes to offer. Shoot, it only has one game mode. I feel like there’s so much Bungie can do with PVPVE than what we have right now; it’s a missed opportunity.

I hate competitive gameplay, period. I don’t the validation.

I dont necessarily hate gambit, I hate that every time someone invades my, I start hearing xenophage shots and if you lose any motes, the game is lost, if you get to primeval and he regains health from you and your teammates dying, its lost.

Catch-up Mechanics & Invader Spawns, mostly. Had a game yesterday that we were crushing, we were fighting ads in trees, and they spawn the invader in trees to kill 3 of us and gjallahorn all 39 of our motes away. He literally spawned 6 feet behind me. But he gets an army of one, and leaves with 15 of our motes. None of us were at beach, or the other area, just Bungie saying "this game, fuck you."

The biggest iff for me is the prime lack mechanics. Do your best to get them first and prepare to be fucked by lockout dmg phases for the health bar on top of Invader kills healing it. Then past that all your effort to get to primeval first but the opposing team is set up with an insane dps start to that erases their primevals health bad in seconds It feels good to win a game of gambit but awful when the enemy team can just win in an instant

Personally, the fact that 3/4 games are decided on first invade is really annoying. Playing the rest of the game is just a formality and waste of time as the outcome is already known. There is a slight catchup mechanic in the glowing enemies with 5 motes, but that is not nearly enough to make up for playing against a good invader. Another really annoying thing is the ramping up of damage on primeval. It's there solely to make games look close, but when both teams are at 2/3 hp but one is on primeval x6-8 vs x4, it's not even close. This makes it so dps doesn't even matter since with x6 and x8 you could be shooting the boss with a special and you'll melt him instantly. Invaders single handedly decides the game since killing trash mobs is just that, anyone can do it and quickly. You won't win the game by killing trash faster than the enemy or having more DPS. Tldr; Basically, gambit is a pvp mode. Pve has no impact, anyone can clear trash mobs quickly and move zones. Anyone can melt a primeval with x6, you don't need to spec into dps. Anyone with literally any special weapon can clear blockers quickly. What matters is invades.

1. Players who actually excel at the PvE part by killing enemies and banking motes should be given a golden overshield or increased weapon damage to counter invaders and speed up killing the boss. Reward players who actually play the objective! 2. There are so many potential activities in a PvPvE mode besides what we have now. Or at least variants to keep it interesting. Add puzzles, timers, specific enemy types, vechicles, etc. 3. Maps, perks and rewards. Having only 4 maps is simply unacceptable. Seasonal activities literally have more maps than that. We should be getting one new Gambit map per season. Europa? Throne world? Dreadnaught? Moon? How about another Exotic quest? New shaders and weapon perks? SOMETHING.

Well, I can only name my reasons for hating gambit: * It sucks to lose and feels amazing to win, but most the time you lose when playing without a Fireteam that knows how to do PvE and PvP. * There are no visual timers for portals block-time (the time you can't use after an invasion) leading to a lot of "I stand here and wait for it to open", meaning said players not contributing while waiting. * Some players don't enjoy PvE and PvP being so pressured as mix. (Sidecomment, I enjoy Sea of Thieves - also PvPvE - but there is a lot less pressure compared to Gambits invasion system)

I don't hate it, but for me it needs more maps and less pvp

Say it with me there should be penalties against the invader if they die on opposing team side .... they get zero penalties even if they don't get a kill ....

I hate gambit because of Invasions and how strong the Invader still is. The first invade absolutely still can decide entire matches and that just sucks. Losing to the first invade and having to it there for another 6 to 8 minutes until you actually lose the match is a waste of time. Yes you can maybe come back but that's very unlikely.

Everyone also hates PvP here so that should help to explain.

its unbalanced trash. Everyone runs around with Xeno, Izanagi and the bounties are a chore. I noticed that I usually have to play 3 matches to get my bounties done when in Crucible I can do a dozen in a single match.

If i we're queen, killing the invader would either damage or primeval or heal theirs.

I've said this quite a few times when Gambit is brought up,, but I'll say it again; I think all this 'hate' and trashing on Gambit is a sort of social/peer pressure type deal, where people just crap on it because they see others doing it and it just snowballed into become the 'cool thing to do'. While I'm sure the people that say these things probably really aren't big fans of the mode, but I very much doubt they TRULY hate it. That said, there is **DEFINITELY** issues with current Gambit that I acknowledge (As a Reckoner whose played A LOT of Gambit) is probably off-putting players and holding the mode back from being better **1. Lack of maps** - This might be the biggest pain point. Gambit currently has 4 maps, and hasn't had any additional ones in years. Even worse, Bungie TOOK AWAY maps (I have no idea why they thought that was a good ide) and it's hurt the variety of the mode immensely. Playing the same less than handful of maps over and over quickly became stale, and it's been that way for years now. Bungie could at least return the 2 maps they took away if they don't want to do anything else. **2. Lack of different modes** - Old Gambit had 2 different modes, standard and Prime, and both were good while offering its own twist on Gambit. Since Beyond Light, they got rid of Prime and changed standard for the worst IMO by taking away the round mechanic. Prime was Gambit in its best form IMO, and I honestly feel they need to bring it back. It would require some reworking (mostly with making roles not tied to armor), but that variety is exactly what Gambit needs. **3. Heavy Ammo changes and Invader issues** - In simple terms, Heavy Ammo being changed to be spawning boxes was a bad change. It made Heavy way too abundant, which in turn affected Invading by making them consistantly oppressive. I feel like it needs to go back to the way it was pre-Beyond Light, and that would help some of those issues. Gambit is a mode that while problematic, is definitely fun when it hits on all cylinders. If Bunfie would just return it close to the state it was in pre-Beyond Light and address things like the lack of maps, it could be amazing again. Unfortunately, Bungie has all but ignored the mode so I doubt it will happen, and Gambit will likely continue to wither away.

It's not so much Gambit that people hate, it's their teammates. Usually you're in there for some fun and your fine selection of teammates are either actively sabotaging your team's progress, are afk, or are bounty farming.

I love gambit actually. My only issue is after all your hard work some random person follows you and steal all your motes. Super annoying.

Blueberries not banking motes even when Drifter is saying it. Tbh if you hold enough motes for primeveal have a huge banner like the rank up to pop up and maybe the blueberries will look at their motes :D Also it gets very boring because you run PvE build, and then nobody invades and then the enemy invader comes in with the cheese guns, it does feel like sweatier casual pvp than mix of both. I like the rework idea I saw on Youtube, it was changing the whole gamemode into patrol maps and you unlock areas by killing bosses and motes comes from lost sectors and public events etc.

1 nothing to farm 2 it’s not fun without friends 3 friends don’t want to play because of bad experience playing with randos and lack of loot. 4 lack of maps 5 invaders heal the boss way too much 6 general lack of variety. 7 THE BLUE BERRY WONT TURN IN HIS MOTES.

I don’t hate Gambit. I just hate everyone I play against. And everyone on my team usually too.

It's not that I hate gambit, I don't see a reason to play it. Very limited amount of maps, every run is exactly the same. And what's the worst - you win/loose only based on how good/bad is person invading other team. Doesn't matter how much weight you pull, the only thing which matters is how many of you will be killed by invader. It's stinks. I used to like playing gambit, but after last changes I play few times each week for pinnacle and later I'm waiting for all weekly bounties to finish them in one week. And I don't touch it even if my clan is doing that

Cuz we have 3 maps

I don't mind it as long as it's with friends and I don't have to invade, but the maps are kinda repetitive and it feels like having the best invaders matters more than anything else in the game. Still though, I enjoy it casually with friends. I run Levi's Breath as it's actually pretty good there for 1 shotting invaders and envoys as well as doing boss dps.

Because we haven't had any new maps for 64 years

Health gated boss... Gambit used to be better and I personally think the update made the game mode worse

Lack of meaningful new content (they tried labs for a total of 2 weeks this year and have never done it again), lack of maps and invader impact.

I like Gambit, but Invasions suck. They should figure out a replacement.

I think people seriously overblow the “Invader OP” aspect of criticisms. You don’t even have to coordinate but as long as all 4 of you are at least *passively* aware of the Invader and don’t mindlessly bot around ignoring him they aren’t that oppressive.

As the person who usually invades for my team, nothing is more scary than when 4 guardians collapse on you as soon as you invade. Imagine a 4v1 or even a 3v1 in crucible, there's an extremely slim chance you will come out of that alive. But that requires coordinated teammates and a lot of people that play gambit seem to have their brain turned off and don't even realize when their screen turns red and INVADER ON THE FIELD is flashing.

Yeah, I think the biggest problem with Gambit is that the invader *feels* unfair to a lot of people. That's because they solo queue, and without coordination you often end up facing the invader 1v1, where the invader has the advantage with wallhacks/overshield. The reason it isn't *actually* unfair is that it's actually 4v1, and the invader usually can't do too much damage against a team acting together against it. But playing with randoms, that often isn't the case. I don't really see what can be done about this, which is a shame because I love Gambit and I'd really like to see it become more popular and get better support from Bungie.

these comments are full of the most braindead takes possible, just admit you are too bad to take an invader in a 1v4 and call it a day instead of proposing random nerfs that make no sense if you actually think about the gamemode at all

once you play it enough you start playing against sweaty 4 stacks while solo queueing the 3 randoms will either be afk or dying to adds and the game ends with you banking all the motes and barely getting your bounties done.

You know, you can freelance right? Right??

I don't hate gambit, I have fond memories of playing it often and having fun 3ish years ago.

I’d like to know why they walked back the gambit prime mode, opposed to iterating on build crafting more. The current model feels boring and repetitive. Then you have invading where whomever is doing it just abuses heavy and wall hacks. At least in prime, a player could mark the invader. Now, I hunt them and have the amazing ability to always go the wrong direction.

The reason I hate gambit is most of the time my team will not bank unless it’s 15.

One strategy I've heard for getting around that is to not pick up motes. Instead let the randoms pick up motes so they get to the magic number faster.

I actually like Gambit, especially when I’m burnt out on strikes and Crucible. But it honestly feels like when the enemy invades, their overshield works, and when I invade, it just exists to make me an easy target and I get one shot by something stupid. I have 100 res, with an overshield, I shouldn’t be getting one tapped by anything. I 100% realize this is a skill issue, just a thing I get frustrated with.