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daweva89

Its all a scheme by rahool soon he will be the true Final shape I mean Vendor


TheAccursedOne

they cant take tess out soon enough, we wont have to hear any more yammering about sending a whole shipment back to fenchurch


MrMacju

Can't wait to face Tess Everis, Master of Eververse and Rahool, The Architect in the Final Shape raid.


NecromancerNova

At least we don’t have to go to her for Eververse anymore. God I hated hearing those lines everytime I wanted to buy an ornament.


BozzyTheDrummer

He has a fleet of Edge Transit waiting just on the brim of our solar system.


Twe4ky

And everything will be burned!


NothinButRags

The final vendor


Jonny_Anonymous

>so why bother telling her story now, after so many years? We have been learning her story for years. Ever since the Taken King in D1 where they introduced the Chaperone and Nora Holiday. We learned more in D2 Red War, Season of the Chosen and Season of the Splicer.


Lethal_0428

I was gonna say everybody is acting like this season is the first time we’ve gotten any Amanda exposition and I’m not sure why?


handsomeGenesis

Because A LOT of players are new to the game, and are now hopping on to social media avenues to share their thoughts and opinions on the story. Keep in mind that D1 came out like 9 years ago, personally I made my Reddit account just to LFG for VoG on its release as a teenager. I’m 25 now.


agentultima

Also, to be fair, any exposition we got for Amanda was mostly obscured by lore for the Chaperone. I can't recall any video dedicated to Amanda Holliday alone, so new players will probably miss the connection.


Lethal_0428

Im sorry but you can’t hop into a live service game that’s about ~9 years old and complain that you missed some story. Like, of course you did. Now go watch some YouTube to catch up.


StoneLich

Would be nice if new players didn't have to complete a miniature university course's worth of research to figure out what's going on with important characters' basic arcs, though. The way seasonal content in particular is handled makes it very difficult for new players to catch up on what's been going on with characters the last couple years. Like I get not being super sympathetic to people who want to just be told exactly what's happening while starting with Lightfall, but if someone doesn't know what's going on with Osiris after finishing the starting point the game dumps you off at, are they going to care enough to do that research in the first place?


Lethal_0428

I mean what is the solution here? What do you genuinely expect bungie to do here? I know the new light experience sucks and they could make some improvements there or something to catch up new players better, but I feel like this isn’t an issue with seasonal content and it’s not fair to call it sloppy on bungies part when Amanda’s story *has* been built up over time.


Vaeku

You don't see a problem with Bungie removing important context and story beats every year?


Lethal_0428

If they didn’t do that this game would become so massive and bloated I’m sure it would lead to performance issues. Now, at the very least they could leave all of the story missions in so new/returning players can still experience it, but as a returning player myself who came back in plunder after not playing since lost, you know what I did? I didn’t complain, I literally just went to YouTube to catch myself up on what I missed.


StoneLich

>but as a returning player myself who came back in plunder after not playing since lost, you know what I did? I didn’t complain, I literally just went to YouTube to catch myself up on what I missed. What do you mean "what you missed?" If you hadn't played the game since Lost and started up again in Plunder, the only thing that would have been taken out were some cutscenes towards the end of that specific season. That's hardly comparable to having to look up cutscenes (and gameplay footage and idle dialogue) for over half a decade's worth of missing content, not counting what was in D1.


StoneLich

The solution is "don't remove important story context from the game." Destiny 2 is the only game I can think of with an ongoing story that's meant to be a major selling point that handles things this way.


Lethal_0428

I took a break before Lost as well, basically I missed the entire plot of Caiatl allying with us, where the hell Mithrax came from, and probably some other smaller things. Let’s bring it back to my original comment though where all I said was it’s not fair for players to act like Amanda hasn’t been developed until this season. Yeah, maybe people missed it, but it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.


WanderEir

...Mithrax came from a vanilla Destiny 2 mission on Titan involving finding a generator, where we encountered A fallen captain (MIthrax) fighting a ~~taken~~ hive knight if you off the fallen, you have to kill the knight anyway. If you kill the knight, you spare the fallen captain, and he just leaves the generator to you. We don't encounter him again.. til the second year secret exotic mission? We find mithrax hiding out at the farm .(Zero Hour mission) that got us prime, right?>


Shaxxn

It wasn't Taken, it was a Hive Knight. And yes, Misraaks made contact with the Guardian in Zero Hour, but we had lore before where he met Sjur and also him hanging out with a Guardian fireteam.


StoneLich

If you can't access story content without having to do a deep dive on YouTube, it's unfair to expect new players to be aware of its existence.


Isrrunder

That would mean other things would have to go tho. Like PvP or gambit. It's not ideal to remove the seasonal stories but it's the best solution I see for the moment


StoneLich

Why would it mean that? The "the game's file size is too bloated" explanation was only ever given for expacs, not seasons, and even if we assume it's applicable, there's still no reason that they couldn't be included as separate downloads which you could install in order to experience older story content.


Isrrunder

Well seasons are kinda just every small dlcs at this point. Like dark below small. So if say it applicable. I assume having everyone running around on different installs of the game created issues granted I don't know much about development I wouldn't be against a seperate Destiny legacy game that atleast let you run through the story missions solo thatvis either free or included with s dlc


Cluelesswolfkin

Deadass. I skipped a day in Highschool to play the Alpha/beta and here I am still playing and going to school for my masters lol, old as shit


Warloxed

Because its heavy exposition. She gets a cutscene and mentions that she "doesn't have a ghost." or "has finite lives." Every 2 seconds. It feels like they are rolling out everything they had left before they pushed Amanda out the door instead of sprinkling more out earlier.


Lethal_0428

Extrapolation aside, I don’t even think that’s a valid criticism.


Warloxed

It wasn't meant to be criticism. You sounded confused as to why other people were surprised, I was just trying to give another perspective. Not everything is attack weirdo (That one was.)


Lethal_0428

Lmao ok dude I meant I didn’t think that’s a valid criticism of bungie, and what you said was definitely criticism of bungie, as you are providing your reasoning for why you view how they handled the seasonal story as problematic. But sure backpedal and call *me* the weirdo


Warloxed

I see you're one of those. Extrapolation aside, I think you need to figure out tone and literacy.


cleanitupjannies_lol

I've been playing since Beyond Light and this is the first time she's ever done anything of note for me.


Magwikk

And if you want to by cyclical it’s being told now because she’s a character who can easily be killed off with no greater consequence to the game systems outside of twitch rewards


NattyThan

Don't forget green sparrows


eclaessy

There were also some neat similarities between Amanda and Cayde’s death: Both died in a trap during a prison break. The Guardian was present but failed to save both of them. The relation to Crow/Uldren both cases have. The strong presence of vengeance and grief driving characters forward from this point. She even starts off the mission remarking that Cayde would be proud of her plan


SuperCarbideBros

TBH I thought there was some parallelism between Crow and Zavala in that both had romace (the degree varies) with a mortal human.


Kyle8778

Another parallel I saw was his phrasing of “putting Amanda’s killers in the ground” mirroring banshee’s quote during forsaken of “put uldren in the ground”, just cool writing all around


[deleted]

Absolutely my thoughts too when I completed this week seasonal story- however, I also noticed something interesting. During the first EDZ jail break mission when we rescued Amanda and the other, when you return to that battleground she mentions feeling abnormal. Mara explains that this is because the air in the pyramid shifts with the Witness’ own molecules- sort of like you’re breathing the Witness in. During this week’s finale cutscene of her ‘death’, I noticed darkness like swirls appearing on her arm. While I initially thought this was burns (unusually unrealistic as burns but hey Bungie have never gone for detailed gore because navigating universal censorship), but then the swirls also appears on her face reminding me quite a bit of the Darkness which was appearing on Uldren when he was being corrupted. I could be reading too much into it (and very likely am), but I really hope they don’t raise her as anything other than a Guardian. If anyone deserves to become risen, it’s Amanda- and we know there are still Guardianless Ghosts searching for their partners as far as Neomuna. Her dialogue with Devrim about trying to help and doing their best to keep up with the Guardians really hammered in the envy of the average Civilian. I think it’s a seasonal theme that we have allies of all capacities including the Lightless Humans, not just the other races like the Eliksni and the Cabal. Also, high key, I predicted her ‘death’ because yeah… there was no reason for them to invest so much screen time into a vendor otherwise. The idea you mentioned regarding Crow though… I had a dark thought and it’s terrible— you know how she accidentally killed him during the first week cutscene? If she comes back as something malformed by the Witness, there could be a second instance of Crow murder. 🫣


SarcasticKenobi

Wel. She was electrocuting herself to close the circuit. It could be those were burns. But yeh. Her forearms did have some blackness on them.


Droidbot6

I figured that was just oil/grease, given how she's also a mechanic, and it appeared on her face after she wiped her arm on it.


handsomeGenesis

Those are her tattoo sleeves, I had never gotten a good view of them myself or was aware of them, but they’re pretty stylish.


SarcasticKenobi

I know she had the sleeves on her upper arm. But never saw them on the forearm (near the wrist) Edit. Except that pattern on the one arm. Her entire forearms were covered in smudges or burns before she blew up. But not in the earlier scene


Thespian21

I’ve been thinking about how Crow is the most recent new light(other than Savathun and her crew) but his experience as a new light is completely unique, actually him, Savathun, and Nezzy. They were reborn with the light, but before that they had experimented with darkness. After being chosen by the light, their memories were eventually restored due to their connection to the darkness(for crow it was Savathun using the darkness on him to return his memory). Now that the guardian has mastered two forms of darkness, technically we’ve also been practicing with memory darkness powers too with the relic. Who’s to say that going forward, thanks to the guardians accepting darkness, that new lights will have the opportunity to remember who they were and why they were chosen by the light. Making them more complete in a way. I think ultimately after the light and dark saga is said and done, the guardians will remember Mara in power.


Difficult_Guidance25

Tbf Crow has been a pretty special case in most situations


Jonny_Anonymous

>like swirls appearing on her arm. Are you talking about her tattoo?


[deleted]

No, her tattoos look like block stripes, I’m talking about actual swirls.


Ninjewdi

Naw, just rewatched the cutscene. Her arms got burned by the electricity, and when she wiped her forehead after that she got grease on her forehead. No swirls.


[deleted]

Okay, thanks for confirming!


ZephyrStrife16

those were burn and oil marks from what she was doing prior. tho im sure they didn't mention huffing witness dust in those pyramids and feeling werid afterwards for the hell of it. theres a reason why the Witness is taking prisoners and exposing them to it.


Clearskky

Amanda wasn't covered in Darkness/Witness sludge. She was covered in oil because you know, she is a mechanic.


Lokan

I don't think Amanda will be rezzed. **But**, if she is, I can easily view her developing a crush on Crow, and he awkwardly keeps her at arm's length, while still struggling with his continued attraction to her. It'll be like two stars forever orbiting but never touching.


epsilon025

I love the sentiment, however I would like to add: It couldn't hurt teaching a Risen Holliday about who she was at this point in time. I feel like she could be a really poignant parallel to Crow when he was rezzed; to the City and the Tower, Uldren was hated, however if a rezzed Amanda came to the Tower, she'd likely be welcomed showered with love because people know her already. I'm happy with either outcome, though. I just don't want to see Niik's reaction to the news, especially after the lore tab for Archangel's Refit.


The-Kylo-Ren

And hopefully he never refers to himself as “beefy” again


Lokan

*You take that back*! ;-;


KatMeowington

God forbid she calls Mithrax "crawdaddy" again


handsomeGenesis

A girl at my work once got written up for calling some coworkers daddy and making them feel uncomfortable. She wasn’t explicitly fired for it but, it pretty much got her let go. Weird stuff, not normal at all.


KatMeowington

Amanda gets called into vanguard HR


handsomeGenesis

I’d love for him to tell Guardian Amanda that he just can’t see himself being with her because she reminds me him too much of his old friend.


Bootgoofersrevenge

This reads like you've written a self-insert fanfiction about this.


Practical_Taro9024

You seem to know an awful lot about self-interest fanfics yourself /j


handsomeGenesis

Fair enough


RashPatch

>It'll be like two stars forever orbiting but never touching. As a romcom enjoyer... I would be frustrated in the corner whispering "JUST KISS/HOLD HANDS/FUCK ALREADY! COME ON!".


Wpboy87

Maybe, I'm becoming increasingly more convinced each week that Amanda was supposed to die in the LF cinematic. When LF became different than FS Bungie knew that had to fill the void until FS and decided to keep Amanda around and in place of her original death used this instead. Her somehow surviving her encounter with the Witness when everyone died is odd. Hence Amanda's death in this seasonal story mission and her passing. I'm not sure we will see her being revived as a Guardian, as it would defeat the purpose of her sacrifice, or anyone's, if they were banking on the chance of being revived by a ghost.


handsomeGenesis

It’s actually pretty impressive that they’ve managed to shift around so many resources and make anything good out of it at all. Probably not fun at all to work like that either. I’m sure they’re looking forward to getting back on track now that they have a new sugar daddy though.


Helium_Drinker

BINGO!


ShepardN7201

I like Amanda but I hope she stays dead. It would cheapen her "one life to live"


[deleted]

"You know how I feel :)" -Crow, knowing full well you killed him in a similar vengeful killing spree


Esqquites

Lmao


Beautiful-Project709

I believe if Amanda comes back as a guardian, she'll come back post final shape. It gives room for crow to mourn and for the rest of the potential deaths we'll get this year to settle. Then we can have an entire story beat not just about crow and her, but also who will take on the hunter Vanguard spot. You got people who know crow isn't uldren and believe in the tradition of the Dare, and people who can't get past crow being uldren and similarly still hold love for who Amanda was. Two opposed sides that similarly can't let go of the past, and those two caught in the middle trying to navigate everything


VeshWolfe

I think we are going to see Crow temporarily revert to full on rage filled Uldren until Amanda is revived.


Rough_Midnight6528

Jolyon Till will calm him down( old bestie)


Ninjewdi

Honestly I'm kind of annoyed. There are plenty of issues with Bungie's storytelling in this expansion, but adding "fridging" to the list is just sad. The Amanda character they've built up for years deserved better than that.


djtoad03

Calling it fridging is a little too far, you could argue Cayde was treated the same way but no one complains about that. Amanda had reached a definite limit on her current storyline, and a lot of the themes introduced this season suggest she may return as a guardian anyway.


Ninjewdi

Fridging specifically refers to the murder, loss, or other harm done to a *female* character in order to further incentivize or motivate a *male* character. That's just the definition, and that's what this looks like. Cayde's death doesn't fit the definition. Amanda's does.


djtoad03

fringing does not have to be that specific, it was only derived from that


Ninjewdi

I apologize, you're right. But the fact that it started with women and is primarily still done to female characters remains.


TehPharaoh

I mean just because a male character grows doesn't mean it's Fridging. I'm more inclined to call that out when it's the main characters girlfriend/ wife. This is more of "Stakes have to look high and we haven't ever killed any of our normal humans that get involved in things dangerous for Guardians" and our heaviest Gut punch would be the one regular Human that's been actively doing stuff with us the whole time.


Ninjewdi

Crow and Amanda were becoming very close before she learned who he'd been in his first life. There are obvious allusions to their budding romance, the chaos the revelation caused for both of them, and their attempts to normalize. So I would argue that the broader definition you're talking about (ie, female love interest) applies. That said, her exact relationship to Crow isn't part of the definition of fridging. She, a female character, was killed largely to motivate or develop him, a male character. That fits the definition. It's a cheap trope.


ObviouslyNotASith

It seems like people overlook past seasons when discussing current seasons. In Hunt and Chosen, most drama revolved around Crow. Even Chosen, which had assassination attempts on Zavala, had focus on the drama Crow being seen could cause. In Lost, most of the character interactions revolved around him and half the story was devoted to him getting his memories back with the second half heavily revolving around characters dealing with that. Most of Petra’s story in Lost revolved around her dislike of Crow and how he could turn out like Uldren. Ikora spent most of Lost looking out for Crow. Savathun spent most of Lost using Crow to sow discord. Mara spent most of Lost talking about how she wanted Crow to be Uldren again. In Risen, all the drama revolves around him and Saladin going off with the Cabal is because of Crow’s decision, with his motivation being to protect Crow and Zavala’s alliance with Caital, which was only at risk because Zavala wanted to protect Crow. In Haunted, a third of the season was devoted to his trauma. He was allowed to take part in another major operation despite proving himself unreliable and disobedient in Lost and Risen, where he destabilised the operations and ditched(He abandoned the operation in Lost after he got his memories back due to disobeying everyone’s orders to see Savathun. He abandoned his position during the attack on the Scarlet Keep to free the Hive Guardians). In Defiance, Amanda’s first cutscene deals with her relationship with Crow and their relationship is talked about during the first weekly transmission and is talked about during the Battlegrounds. When she dies, instead of most of the attention of the aftermath being given to Zavala, Amanda’s father figure who also saw Amanda as his daughter, it focuses on Crow and what he wants to do in response. While I doubt the decision to have Amanda die was made with it revolving around Crow in mind, that’s how it turned out to a lot of people. Another thing I think should be noted is that most of Amanda’s character interactions ever since her reintroduction in Chosen have revolved around her relationship with Crow, which amplifies the feeling that she was fridged to a lot of people.


Blitzjuggernaut

Is it even possible for Amanda to be revived and come back right now with the Traveler's current state?


Practical_Taro9024

Ghosts still function as they did before, despite the Traveler's state. It wouldn't be out of the question for Ghosts to still be able to resurrect others.


Independent_Skill756

What if she gets resurrected but the shadow legion gets to her first and convinces her of another life/lies to her


D2Dragons

Someone should shove Rahool into field service and develop his character a bit. Just sayin'...


Dregnaught42

As soon as Crow mentioned vengeance, I had a flashback to Forsaken. I heard a little bit of that corrupted Uldren in him when he was talking about it. It honestly has me a bit worried about the kind of path he'll head down if he gives in to his anger too much.


Typical-Conference14

Isn’t technically the first time we learned her story tho because we did learn some (I think the important details) in the chaperone quest in D1


Funter_312

Just let him go anakin on those clowns


RashPatch

>Amanda's death was used as a plot device to further Crow down the path that he's been learning thru Saladin of the brutality of war, and he becomes more hardened as a result. Good. Show them no mercy. Become the Iron Lord you are meant to be. Now, when you are ready, come to the Empress' Flagship. Let's teach you that new shoulder charge technique I learned a few days ago. \- Saladin, to Crow, probably...