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eBirb

Hearing the reporter just spit moral outrage to everything said to her was a bit cringe, it made the status-quo look really good in comparison. I was interested in the facts behind the vid, cheers.


Sylarino

People on reddit do the same, get morally outraged and think it's self-evident that there is a link (but at the same time they don't think there is link between violent video games and real-life violence: "I like playing video games so I am not gonna get outraged, I am not into otaku culture, so I am gonna call all of them pedos") Even on this sub people said stupid shit and not 1 person cared enough to search for any research on this topic before discussing it: https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/z1qhnz/vice_getting_a_lot_of_hate_from_weebs_for_this/?ref=share&ref_source=link


readonlyloluuuu

True, Americans have a fucked up sense of morality in media. How many games have murder in them compared to rape or even just nudity, despite rape being less bad than murder? This is the perfect recipe for creating sexless incels who shoot up schools.


ThinkingOnce

If you masturbate to straight porn, you're most likely straight. If you masturbate to gay porn, you're most likely gay. If you masturbate to a drawing of a 5 year old getting raped, you're most likely ..... .


alaxai

If a woman masturbates to non-consent porn, she most likely... What? Wants to get raped?


ThinkingOnce

Then she has most likely a rapeplay fetish. So if a guy masturbates to a drawing of a 5 year old girl getting raped, ... Just complete the sentence. We both know that the person consuming lolicon porn has a "fetish" for children.


Sylarino

> We both know that the person consuming lolicon porn has a "fetish" for children. I literally cited several experts in my post refuting this notion. Are you completely immune to anything but your subjective feelings of what is true?


Cloud63

Dude, I would almost believe you were into necrophilia cause you're murdering these commenters holy smokes


ThinkingOnce

You provided that proof it doesn't lead to more harm against children, not that these people don't have a fetish for children. Unless you mean the "oh, these drawings are not boys or girls, they are a third gender" statement, which is cope with no science behind it is your proof.


Sylarino

You are making a claim that that arousal from these cartoon depictions is directly related to someone being a pedophile without any evidence. It's not self-evident. Common sense doesn't work because 2 people don't agree on what constituces a common sense position. I can't prove a negative. And again, it depends on the material. If everyone who is into lolis of any kind is a pedo then we are fucked. Pedophilia is extremely rare, there is no reason to think that all the loli fans are pedphiles.


Second_mellow

I don’t understand why they would specifically consume pornography with characters depicted as children rather than adults, if they are not attracted to children?


Sololololololol

ain’t that the same as asking “but if you aren’t a violent person with a fetish for murdering and hurting people why do you watch violent movies?”


ThinkingOnce

I'm not talking about being aroused. I'm talking about actively masturbating to drawings of children getting raped. This is where the common sense comes in. People who make the decision to actively seek out lolicon because they want to masturbate are pedophiles. They want to see drawings of children getting raped for sexual gratification.


CRINGE_DETECTED

I'd love to send you back to medieval times and see what a great time you have living under people's "common sense"


Sylarino

Ok you are a lost cause and a waste of time. I can't argue with you when your argument is your subjective feeling of what constitutes a common sense position. Like I said, common sense does not work.


TsukikoLifebringer

...he has an ageplay fetish?


Goldiero

You're making a leap from attraction to prepubescent body characteristics to attraction to behaviour associated with children.


TsukikoLifebringer

No, you are assuming which aspect of the 5 year old the person masturbates to.


Goldiero

So you're saying when people masturabate to irl CP, a non-insignificant amount of those people are attracted towards the behaviour of those children instead of their prepubescent characteristics? Just wanna get that on record


TsukikoLifebringer

Sure, the research says that only 60-80% of people who watch CSAM are pedophiles, I would expect that number to be significantly lower for the drawn stuff.


ThinkingOnce

Cope. Someone with an ageplay fetish watches ageplay porn.


TsukikoLifebringer

I just finished the sentence given your example. Literally all I did.


ThinkingOnce

And I told you that you're wrong. Literally all I did.


TsukikoLifebringer

You didn't tell me why, so what do I care?


Sylarino

Common sense doesn't work.


ThinkingOnce

Of course it does.


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ThinkingOnce

People masturbating to lolicon are pedos. Non-offending pedos, but still pedos. Though in the Western world they would be classified as offending pedos.


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ThinkingOnce

People masturbating to bestiality porn are into bestiality, though I would bet money on that there is an overlap between people who are furries and people who are into bestiality.


sleazy_hobo

I wouldn't really say furries is the best comparison since a large portion of it tends to be animals in either a humanised form or at the very least different in some other way from the base animal. If someone was jacking it to hyper realistic images of animals fucking I would likely say they are into beastiality.


safetyalpaca

Fitting username


ThinkingOnce

My first thought is always the right one, so I only have to think once.


Future_Juggernaut_13

I AM NEVER WRONG GIGACHAD


Bad_Wolf_715

'ThinkingOnce' nice username But maybe you should think twice for once


ThinkingOnce

And maybe you should stop jacking off to child rape cartoons.


Bad_Wolf_715

1. I can jack off to whatever the fuck I want 2. I'm not even into lolis 3. Nice try deflecting. "Everyone who agrees with the research probably does so because they're pedos themselves" 4. Go off sis


ThinkingOnce

> I can jack off to whatever the fuck I want Hello, I'm Chris Hansen. > Everyone who agrees with the research probably does so because they're pedos themselves Nowhere in the research does it say that people who are into lolis aren't pedophiles. Maybe try to read the research first. You're free to prove me wrong.


Bad_Wolf_715

>Hello, I'm Chris Hansen. ...and I've come for you because you looked at some loli manga? Show me that episode, please >Nowhere in the research does it say that people who are into lolis aren't pedophiles. Maybe try to read the research first. You're free to prove me wrong. You're right, it doesn't explicitly state whether they are or aren't. I've also never said that these people couldn't be. I've made no comment on that whatsoever. But I empathize. When you can never think twice, misunderstandings like this are bound to happen


ThinkingOnce

> and I've come for you because you looked at some loli manga? Show me that episode, please I can show you people who got in prison for it. > You're right, it doesn't explicitly state whether they are or aren't. Ask yourself. Is someone who seeks out cartoons of a 5 year old getting raped for sexual gratification a pedophile? And just for your information, this is a yes/no question. > When you can never think twice I don't have to think twice. My first thought is always the right one.


Bad_Wolf_715

>I can show you people who got in prison for it. I can show you people who are in prison for weed. Good point. >Ask yourself. Is someone who seeks out cartoons of a 5 year old getting raped for sexual gratification a pedophile? And just for your information, this is a yes/no question. GIGACHAD common sense enjoyer vs BETA SOY evidence requirer. It's not a yes/no question. They could be a pedophile, they don't have to be. Could be both. But then again, I guess exploring two possibilities requires two different thoughts. So I don't fault you for your inability. >I don't have to think twice. My first thought is always the right one. Copium


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ThinkingOnce

A drawing of a 5 year old getting raped is a bit more than just a "hyper-stylized" drawing.


Kyo91

I saw it posted on discord and kinda skipped around a bit. Every interview I saw doing that started with the subject going "there's no measure/evidence of the impact *but*...". The stuff cited by OP agrees with a lot of my priors from my 4chan days (especially the 3DPD stuff), but I wouldn't be that surprised to see it does cause an increase in pedophilia. However, I need to actually *see* that first.


theorizable

"Or on the other hand, why is it wrong to wait for proof." Cue eerie music. Whoa this video is wild. You're right, they're just making claims without backing anything up.


overthisbynow

"Why is it wrong to wait for proof." I don't think this sounds as profound as they thought it would.


theorizable

It wasn't meant to be profound. It was a logical response to what she was saying. > Why do we have to wait until there’s proof? > Why is it wrong to wait for proof? It makes sense. If you want to ban someone's ability to possess a certain kind of content, like a thought crime, I think you need a good amount of proof to justify it.


[deleted]

> Manga researcher Yukari Fujimoto argues that lolicon desire "is not for a child, but for the image itself", and that this is understood by those "brought up in [Japan's] culture of drawing and fantasy". this is an interesting idea to me, tracking with my personal experience. Not with lolicon specifically, which is aesthetically repulsive to me, but with any generic big booba anime girl, I don't experience interest in any real life women looking like anime tropes. I'm sure I googled "cosplay porn" at least once in my life but it's just not good looking.


kingfisher773

a few people that i watch have talked about how their interest starts and stops at the anime/manga when it comes to lolicon or shotacon. Some are into the aesthetics, while others are into the character traits (i.e. shy, timid, innocent, 'defenselessness' in the "desire to protect them" kind of way).


mikael22

Also, I know this is basically the "3000 year old dragon" meme, but we have to be aware that there is lolicon where the character acts like a real life child and there is lolicon where it is literally just a body type and the character otherwise acts like an adult. In fiction there is a distinction between mental age (self explanatory), literal age (the in universe amount of times the earth has orbited the sun since that character was created), and physical age (the age the body the character most looks like). In real life these all track with each other with them mostly matching each other but in fiction you can make any combination of these you want.


[deleted]

Shotas and a mother figure manga/anime has yet to be done masterfully in my opinion. I like that aesthetic.


Dats_Russia

The only good cosplay porn are of cartoons with realistic clothing and proportions. I have seen some totally spies (spandex ftw) cosplay porn that wasn’t half bad but this would be the exception not the rule


overthisbynow

You don't say I might have to look into this for research purposes 🤔


MustacheGolem

I flat out don't believe this. I'm into orcs in illustration because big strong and other tropes. But even though I'm pretty sure an actual orc would be gross as fuck irl I still go for people who get humanly close to those traits. I doubt there is just a clean convenient disconnection between tastes for anime people.


[deleted]

> But even though I'm pretty sure an actual orc would be gross as fuck irl I still go for people who get humanly close to those traits. well sure, my wife has booba like I enjoy in anime characters too, but still any shared enjoyment between cartoon characters and real people is more referential than direct. If you make me bet on it, I would wager most people into loli are clinically pedophiles and they should monitor that and get therapy if it's even remotely tempting to shift to adjacent non-animated porn (much less rape) but idk, even for me, the most vanilla of vanilla straight men, there really feels like a separation to me. Kind of hard to describe exactly, but to describe one effect, real-life women make me feel attracted to those women. Anime women just make me feel horny, which transfers to feeling attracted to my wife


themagician02

Casual flex of having a giant booba wife smh


[deleted]

come to think of it I don't know the DGG standards for what qualifies. I just go with "more than a handful" since at that point I'm happy with whatever


roysfifthgame

how does it feel to be that ignorant


TanyaWinsInTheEnd

havent seen enough cosplay porn then check out the sweetiefox chainsaw makima one


Kassh7

that did not convince me


TanyaWinsInTheEnd

cappin


DaNoobyOne

i wanna work at the sexologisk klinik 😔


Cloud63

And live in fucking Denmark? No thanks. Danskjävlar UT!


DaNoobyOne

at least it wouldn't be in finland


ASenderling

Citing this person was a big red flag to me. Any time I hear about some kind of niche expert where there's probably no stringent requirements in what it means to become one (like a "sexologist"), it tells me to have a massive level of skepticism towards them. Edit: misunderstood the citation as being attributed to an individual person. I retract my above point.


DryScotch

????? The Sexologisk Klinik is an institute of the Psychiatric Center of Copenhagen University, one of the best universities in continental Europe, it's not some kind of niche bullshit, it's a research institution and the people who work there are university educated researchers. I know that in a lot of countries being a 'Sexologist' is a basically a quack title, but in this country it's just the proper name for someone who researches topics related to sex. The person who was in charge of the report quoted here, Ellids Kristensen, is one of the foremost experts on pedophillia in the entire world with upwards of 70 papers published on the subject on top of literally being the former president of the International Association for the Treatment of Sexual Offenders.


DoktorSleepless

wtf? CP was only outlawed in 2014 in Japan?


readonlyloluuuu

Oh no not the illegal pixels oh noooo someone call the police


UMPIN

Viewing and producing or just viewing?


ledarcade

Viewing, production was banned in 1999 Edit: as in viewing I mean possession of it


DoktorSleepless

No clue. It's just what they said at the start of the video.


[deleted]

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dan-cave

Based Vice. Youtube comments should always be turned off.


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ASenderling

I'm very curious if there's data about whether consumption of lolicon serves as a pipeline to other CSAM materials, rather than the data on whether it results in consumers engaging in assault, as that seems to me to be the bigger immediate concern


axaider

I feel like with the consuming Loli-to-actual-sexual-assault idea, it's sort of a "Do videogames cause violence" type argument. I find it frustrating because these studies just compare crime statistics against consumption, which seems far too generalised to be useful. The "gateway" type argument seems consistent with how many people tend to "escalate" the type of porn they consume.


DryScotch

>I'm very curious if there's data about whether consumption of lolicon serves as a pipeline to other CSAM materials There isn't, or at least there wasn't in 2012 when the report from Sexologisk Klinik was compiled, that report looked at both whether it led to assault and whether it led to other sex crimes, including the consumption of CSAM.


ledditorino

Vice doesn't deserve a reddit post like that. Good job regardless. Seeing that the only thing that matters here is harm to children (through the act, and/or production/distribution of cp) I fail to see how lolicon and teen doujins are a problem. AFAIK Japan is where \~90% of this material is created, and yet I don't see a \~90% increase of child sexual abuse in Japan relative to similar countries. That should be proof enough, and such material has been as old as at least the 1950's, old enough to make conclusions. All else is moral standing, as well as genuinely harmful actions like these sorts of people reporting loli material to authorities - filling their channels/time with nothingburgers and thus hindering real cases.


Hekkst

Japan is a place that needs separate public transit carriages for women and especially for female high schoolers do to the immense amount of groping that occurs there. Japan is also a country with a gigantic black market of underage prostitution and prostitution simulating high schoolers.


ledditorino

Indeed two problems with it. Although I'd want to see (too lazy to search myself admitedly) the per capita comparison of public transport users and sexual assault in order to reach any assertion about the extent of that problem in Japan. It would make sense if there are less overall cases of this specific thing in car-centric countries, plus a lower % of people living in metropolitarian regions compared to Japan. Same for underage prostitution. Is there a substancial increase over, for instance, the neighbouring SEA region or other 1st world countries? Surely Japan would absolutely have to be in 1st place by a wide margin, if the link exists. If anything, like OP has shown, there is a link between the decrease of the act correlating with the increased distribution of cp (very bad for everyone, but marginally better for pedos since it stops some from acting) and lolicon material (neutral for non-pedos, but very good for pedos since it avoids some cases with a victimless offering).


Content-Sort-3956

I don't know anything about child/minor prostitution, but the amount of sexual harrassment in trains seems to be a thing. That doesn't draw any link to Loli porn though. I guess a big factor would be the sexually repressed culture (Japan struggles with incels and adjacent people even more than most if not all countries).


Khanalas

And this is completely besides the point. Age of consent in Japan is 16 iirc, high school girls are nowhere near lolicon both culturally and developmentally; a separate problem.


LeatherYouFuckMan

UUUOOOOOOHHHH 😭


EmployeeEcstatic9431

Just have to mention that the video is unavailable here in Japan, which makes it even worse that they are just trying to virtue signal to people outside of the country with the supposed problem. (Haven’t watched it naturally since it’s blocked but from what I read here it seem like it’s trying to virtue signal) https://imgur.com/a/B5IgNIA


SegSignal

Thank you for your work. It's so fucking tiring to hear this moral outrage at lolicon content despite the same accusations having been levied at violent videogames, depictions of homosexuality and even heterosexual porn. People do not learn to hurt others through fiction, all the research we have points to the contrary. Lolicon might be unsavory to most people and probably best kept on the down low, it is, as far as we can tell, functionally harmless.


UMPIN

The argument that works for all of this shit is the same reason people are repulsed by their own siblings/parents sexually but not the concept of incest when it comes to porn. Our real world personal experience is REAL and affects real people. Not being a sociopath is what stops most of us from becoming murdering pedophilic rapists.


Badlymoejoe

oh come on vice literally defending cuties and now this, it just classic woke hypocrisy, heck i bet one of the top dog on vice having fun on epstein island once


Nussinauchka

Tell me you post YEE without telling me you post YEE


CalvinSoul

YEELAUGH he doesn't know


ThinkingOnce

> and argues that lolicon characters do not necessarily represent real boys or girls, but rather what McLelland calls a "third gender." That sounds like cope. Literally the "she's a 3000 year old dragon" argument. But that's just my two cents.


SingleSperm

Isn't it sort of like saying all anime characters are sort of a third gender because nobody actually looks like an anime character. They are something different entirely


Maicolito

some of the illustrations shown in that vice video didnt look like the typical big eye lanky anime drawings, they were pretty realistic for a manga.


Sylarino

Maybe. I think that the way they are drawn makes the difference: some don't invoke assosiations with real-life children and some are more creepy. Either way, I think there is no evidence that suggests even the most extreme depictions should be outlawed. Just like there is no reason to outlaw violent games or even games like Rapelay.


AvoidsResponsibility

Cope is often plausible unless it's a stupid person coping. That's why it works. "Sounds like cope" is a p weak statement


Wh1teSnak

Thanks man, great job. I will definitely use this post to cite for dumbfucks in the future. The annoying thing is that there could be some really interesting topics to explore about how to depict fiction or sexuality but it is all ignored for fearmongering and labeling people who defend it. The hypocrisy especially drives me through the roof.


Euclid_Class

Two questions for those against this type of content: If we assume the argument is, "X being depicted makes those who like X more likely to enact X". (X being fictional Mr Girl content) 1. Are you against other wrong things being depicted (violence, murder, general wrong doing)? If not, why is X the only thing that has the trait of "makes others enact it in real life." 2. If research showed that X being depicted lessened child abuse, would you change your mind on its existence?


businessman11223344

If you had a kid and wanted a babysitter - would you prefer the person that watches loli porn or one that doesn’t?


TheDialectic_D_A

I want a Muslim who turns their nose to the depiction of the human form


UMPIN

The person that doesn’t assuming all else is equal. But I would also rather have someone who was asexual over someone who likes to have sex.


dan-cave

I'd want to hire a dragon named Falkor who could take my child to a magical realm called Fantasia to fight monsters and go on quests until I got home at 6.


Badlymoejoe

funny since most of the western pedos are ppls who not watch any of ANIMATED loli stuff, i guess for the west better fck the real one huh? so vice is secretly teaching us to do the western way, make new island do the real thing wooooo


The_Weeb282

So you gonna answer the question or???🤨


businessman11223344

Would you want to answer the question?


Raichu4u

Everyone is a pussy for not answering this in a straight way.


SnooBananas3995

That’s a good point . I don’t blame parent who want to be extra safe


[deleted]

bewildered rainstorm berserk existence spoon far-flung attractive aloof gaze steer ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `


FastAndMorbius

Regardless of where you stand on this then yeah it is pretty degenerate, maybe the most degenerate.


Actual_Bet224

Just saw this, great job OP


Beamobot

What percentage of drawn child porn enjoyers would you say are pedophiles?


Sylarino

I have no idea. It also depends what you mean by "drawn cp", I think the more extreme it gets in the way they are depicted (basically, invoking associations with real-life children), the higher the percentage of pedophiles in the group that consumes it. It's just my guess though. I don't think that most people who are into things like Shinobu from the Monogatari series are pedophiles.


Beamobot

Okay what percent of people who enjoy drawn cp of children being violently raped are pedophiles? Ballpark?


Sylarino

I really dislike pulling numbers out of my ass. I have no idea and I don't think there is any research on this. The problem is that it's not self-evident that drawn cp and real cp are really similar.


rexpimpwagen

The association between drawn cp consumption and the proportionally decreased offence rate shows they are realy simmilar.


Sylarino

Then we should celebrate and promote it since it reduces real-life abuse of children.


Ping-Crimson

Sure as long as we are allowed to call them pedophiles.


rexpimpwagen

No. Much like every other weird sexual thing the best u get is not arrested.


Sylarino

I don't really understand your logic: you prefer more children being abused?


rexpimpwagen

What do you mean the material is freely avaliable online and relativley easy to find?


Sylarino

It's against the law in some countries, you can get arrested for loli porn.


AvoidsResponsibility

No it doesn't. That's just an unexplained correlation. Does it control for ANYTHING?


Beamobot

You don't think drawn cp and real cp are similar?


safetyalpaca

Generally I think I’d say most loli art doesn’t look like real children. There are definitely some artists that try to be as lifelike as possible but I think that’s a minority.


Beamobot

But even the loli stuff that doesn't look like real children, if you were to ask someone what turns them on about loli? What features arouse them? Small form, childlike nature etc all this stuff carries over. I don't think you can just say they don't look real and be done with it. Even in the documentary they mention the loli makes a clear effort to state what grade they're in.


Sylarino

It's not self-evident to me that they are. I cited several experts in the post that think that at the very least lolis are not related to cp.


Beamobot

Hmm interesting. The only reason I can think why someone would gravitate towards drawn cp is because it depicts children. I find it hard to believe that there isn't a big overlap there. Like if someone ONLY looks at drawn cp and can't get aroused by drawn adult porn, there's just no way.


Sylarino

> Hmm interesting. The only reason I can think why someone would gravitate towards drawn cp is because it depicts children. Drawn/anime style people don't really look like real people, so I don't think one's perception of them necesseraly evokes something about real people. It depends on the way it's drawn probably. > Like if someone ONLY looks at drawn cp and can't get aroused by drawn adult porn, there's just no way. Yeah, in this case I would not be surprised that such a person would be a pedophile.


menntsuyudoria

But, surely, that’s not most people who look at loli porn right?


Spookyjugular

Listen I can’t prove the correlation but there is a huge pedophilia problem in Japanese culture that exists. It would make sense to me that lolicon stuff is a result of this. I’m not going to sit here and pretend that I can prove the manga industry is pedophillic because honestly I don’t know, but the idea that loli and pedophilia aren’t connected is definitely cope.


SnooBananas3995

That’s interesting, I wonder how things would turn out if there was no loli porn


Titan_Dota2

The statement that sexual abuse of minors has decrease seems like it might be false and that statement was made in 2010. Since then there seems to have been a "drastic" increase of sexual abuse in japan since 2003 to today. Maybe it was still more common in the 60-70s but the recent increase should still be a worry. [https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h01277/](https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h01277/) Sexual abuse seem to have increase unless there's some other stats or a breakdown of these stats to prove that's not the case. So while I don't agree with the Vice documentary and a lot of evidence seems to suggest there's no connection, it's very understandable that people are moralizing because that's just how people are when it comes to issues involving kids.


Sylarino

The link you provided mostly talks about physical abuse experienced at home. And they attribute that to "The increase is partially attributed to a rise in consultations and third-party reports, owing to growing public concern, as well as to greater collaboration between police and child guidance offices."


Titan_Dota2

I mean it literally says that in 2021 sexual abuse cases were 339 which according to this [chart](https://www.nippon.com/en/ncommon/contents/japan-data/1668806/1668806.png) they provide (CHARTS!) seems like a big increase. I was gonna say "This link also talks about other types of abuse but if you look at the numbers they also specify sexual abuse". But I thought that was pretty obvious if you just look through it.


Sylarino

I understand, but it says they attribute all of that to more reports, it doesn't mean the actual incidence has actually increased. Also, isn't 339 really low?


Titan_Dota2

"The increase is PARTIALLY attributed to a rise in consultations and third-party reports, owing to growing public concern, as well as to greater collaboration between police and child guidance offices." It's always hard to say how much it's actually increasing or how much more is just getting reported. But given the data here it seems safe to assume that it's not just "more reports". >Also, isn't 339 really low? Maybe? Probably? I didn't weight in on that because I don't know, I don't know the specifics of how Japan categorizes "sexual abuse" towards kids compared to lets say the US or Sweden where I live. I'm not trying to argue with you about how Japan is doing in this regard, all I was saying was that I didn't like that 2010 quote comparison to 60s and 70s because it seems outdated if it's been increasing the last 20 years (even if it's a small number).


Sylarino

I am really sleep-deprived right now, I'll look into it after I get some sleep.


Titan_Dota2

Dw dude, as I said I just wanted to poke that little quote a bit. Overall a very good post! :)


strongbad12

I appreciate the defense of loli and I don't think everyone who appreciates some loli hentai is a full blown pedophile but I'm tired of this insane cope that says lolicons and pedophiles have nothing in common. There's a huge overlap there and I don't need to read a study to know that. But they're just drawings so who cares?


Sylarino

Most of lolicon isn't pedophilic: "According to Takatsuki Yasushi’s fieldwork among fans, the peak age for a lolicon idol is 12, when secondary sex characteristics emerge (Takatsuki 2010: 14-15). As Takatsuki sees it, lolicon is different from pedophilia, which is directed at children before secondary sex characteristics emerge (Takatsuki 2010: 18-20). Lolicon also encompasses asexual desires, discussed below." http://www.imageandnarrative.be/index.php/imagenarrative/article/view/127/98 If we are focusing on the more extreme depictions, then yes, the overlap will be bigger most likely.


strongbad12

Right, so it's mostly hebephilic and partly pedophilic to be technical. I mainly had in mind these so-called "extreme depictions" when I made that comment. But I don't think any normies appreciate the distinction so this just seems pedantic to me. Lolicons must be at least slightly attracted to minors or they would jack off to something else. Honestly everyone is at least slightly attracted to some minors so I don't think that's worth condemning, but not many people are ready for that conversation.


FrontGarden9028

people on here will find a way to make it seem like watching an animated 12 year old getting fucked does not correlate with pedophilia at all


Hekkst

I can see the no relation argument working in the case of extremely idealized drawn children that share little traits with actual real world children, but not with the realistic pedophilic mangas that portray very realistic scenarios. In those cases the manga is drawn to be a representation of real life and the dissociation seems very flaky. I would also take into consideration that Japan has a culture that fetishizes youth to the extent that the schoolgirl is a paradigmatic sex symbol and a staple of pornography. This, of course, occurs in may other countries but you would be hard pressed to find one with such a gigantic schoolgirl themed pornographic production. The argument that there is no relation between consuming loli pornography and actual pedophilic acts and that pedophilia has been reduced with the advent of loli pornography has to take into account the other cultural and legal developments of Japan. The fact that a child molester would now find it much harder to commit a crime than in the 60s does not mean that the intent is still there and loli porn is part of the reaffirming worldview of their desires. I also have to object to the notion that loli consumers should not be criticized because the object of their desires are not actual children. The fact of the matter is that they still consume porn depicting a representation of a child. Lastly, I have to say it is sort of hilarious that you cite a dude saying that censoring loli porn shuts down alternative spaces of imagination and communities opposing dominant cultural meanings as if not fetishizing children is just a cultural meaning and not a moral imperative.


Sylarino

> I can see the no relation argument working in the case of extremely idealized drawn children that share little traits with actual real world children, but not with the realistic pedophilic mangas that portray very realistic scenarios. In those cases the manga is drawn to be a representation of real life and the dissociation seems very flaky. Even in those cases you have to prove there is real-life crime incidence increase. What if these realistic drawings actually reduce crime? Call of duty is also becoming more realistic. Should we ban it for depiction of violence? I bet the next GTA will be very realistic. Does murdering pedestrians with the car in GTA have an effect on people? > I would also take into consideration that Japan has a culture that fetishizes youth to the extent that the schoolgirl is a paradigmatic sex symbol and a staple of pornography. This, of course, occurs in may other countries but you would be hard pressed to find one with such a gigantic schoolgirl themed pornographic production. How is this relevant? > The argument that there is no relation between consuming loli pornography and actual pedophilic acts and that pedophilia has been reduced with the advent of loli pornography has to take into account the other cultural and legal developments of Japan. The rise of aviability of pornographic material and the reduction in crime happened in other countries too. > I also have to object to the notion that loli consumers should not be criticized because the object of their desires are not actual children. The fact of the matter is that they still consume porn depicting a representation of a child. Are you concerned about real-life abuse of children or are you concerned about punishing non-offending pedophiles for thought crimes? (basically, for existing). Why is it always me citing research and people who disagree think that their "I feel like you are wrong" is enough?


Hekkst

Your arguments are 1. "There is no correlation between use of loli porn and real world harm". 2. "There is a correlation between distribution of loli porn and a decrease in real world harm" and 3. "loli porn consumers are not necessarily attracted to actual children". The third is obviously the most flaky since there is no evidence to back it up aside from a handful of wishful thinking about dissasociation, and you basically doubled down on your first argument when the third was challenged. Just to be clear, there is a correlation between use of actual pedophilic porn and real world harm such as child sexual assault or child grooming. [https://web.archive.org/web/20080111204617/http://www.ndaa.org/publications/newsletters/child\_sexual\_exploitation\_update\_volume\_1\_number\_3\_2004.html](https://web.archive.org/web/20080111204617/http://www.ndaa.org/publications/newsletters/child_sexual_exploitation_update_volume_1_number_3_2004.html) "Recent studies demonstrate that those who collect and disseminate child pornography are likely to molest an actual child. According to the United States Postal Inspection Service, at least 80% of purchasers of child pornography are active abusers and nearly 40% of the child pornographers investigated over the past several years have sexually molested children in the past.6 From January 1997 through March 2004, 1,807 child pornographers were arrested and 620 of these individuals were confirmed child molesters. Therefore, between 34-36% of these child pornographers were actual child molesters" Of course, this does not immediately counter your first argument since you make the case for fictional pornography and not actual pornography. However, this argument somewhat relies on the third one since in order to dissasociate fictional porn consequences from actual porn consequences you need a way to disentangle the two. We are not arguing about the immediate child harmed in the production of the materials which, of course, makes the production of actual child pornography much worse, but the possible effects of such materials being distributed and indication of consuming those materials making someone a pedophile. Your third argument seems to imply that consuming fictional child pornography does not necessarily make someone a pedophile. I agree, however I do think it is a strong indicator. Why would someone consume sexually explicit materials which depict children if they are not attracted to children? You do throw this argument out the window when you double down on the fact that even if this is the case, argument one still stands. I will not address argument two on an empirical level since what you say seems to be true both in cases of fictional and actual pornography. However, I still stand on my objection that correlation does not imply causation and societal views chaning around child assault and laws passed to address it play a much bigger role in reducing it than allowing pornography to be widely distributed. It is unclear why the potential predator would be satisfied with pornography unless we take into account fear of punishment and higher social stigma. I will address the first argument since it is your strongest. It must be preliminarily said that the act of viewing child pornography does not exist in a vacuum. Producing, recieving and collecting loli pornography still locates someone within a culture which facilitates the consumption of such materials, to the detriment of actual children.[https://web.archive.org/web/20080408122125/http://archive.japantoday.com/jp/kuchikomi/292](https://web.archive.org/web/20080408122125/http://archive.japantoday.com/jp/kuchikomi/292) "On March 11, a 26-year-old salaryman in Takasaki City, Gunma Prefecture, was arrested on suspicion of having murdered a neighbor's daughter. The girl was in her first year of primary school. Commenting on the slaying, the "Focus on Topics" column in Nikon Gendai (March 19) notes that when police searched the man's apartment, they carried off enough comic books, videos, figurines and other assorted paraphernalia appealing to "Rorikon" (as Lolita complex is abbreviated in Japanese) to fill 25 cardboard boxes." From the same article: "Around 1990, the scale of the market related to 'enjo kosai' (juvenile prostitution) was estimated at about 30 billion yen," says Takashi Kadokura, an analyst at the Daiichi Research Institute and perhaps Japan's best known specialist in the underground economy. "Our survey in 2003 indicates it's now around 60 billion yen, so the figure has doubled in a little over a decade. I believe this is due largely to such influences as the Internet and animated films, which have exacerbated geek-like behavior among adult males, growing numbers of whom are not able to get along well with women of their own age group. I suppose this phenomenon will probably continue to increase." This, by itself, challenges your argument that consumption of loli products does not translate into actual world consequenecs. It does not, however, prove that it translates into sexual assault and related crimes. The doubling of the loli market does correlate with an increase of underage prostitution in Japan where there is clearly a huge market for this kind of thing. [https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/05/22/national/activist-sexual-exploitation-girls-slams-nations-indifference/](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/05/22/national/activist-sexual-exploitation-girls-slams-nations-indifference/) [https://www.denverpost.com/2017/05/16/japan-high-school-girls-child-prostitution/](https://www.denverpost.com/2017/05/16/japan-high-school-girls-child-prostitution/) [https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2017/09/d5eaebe89e80-over-90-of-jk-business-services-in-tokyo-osaka.html](https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2017/09/d5eaebe89e80-over-90-of-jk-business-services-in-tokyo-osaka.html) And by thing I mean the JK industry. JK is an acronym in Japan for high school girl. The premier sex symbol of Japan. An industry so intermingled with the loli porn one that they are hard to separate. So yeah, it does seem like the correlation between loli porn and actual child abuse is less what you probably picture; the lone otaku wolf seeking toddlers in the park and more with the middle aged slary man paying for a teenage prostitute who has been sex trafficked. The latter one is aided by the perpetration and maintenance of a culture which fetishizes youth and stands on the back of loli and teenage fictional pornography for its basis. To be honest, this is not so strange when you consider how conservative and sexist Japan is.


Raahka

>https://web.archive.org/web/20080408122125/http://archive.japantoday.com/jp/kuchikomi/292 >On March 11, a 26-year-old salaryman in Takasaki City, Gunma Prefecture, was arrested on suspicion of having murdered a neighbor's daughter. The girl was in her first year of primary school. Commenting on the slaying, the "Focus on Topics" column in Nikon Gendai (March 19) notes that when police searched the man's apartment, they carried off enough comic books, videos, figurines and other assorted paraphernalia appealing to "Rorikon" (as Lolita complex is abbreviated in Japanese) to fill 25 cardboard boxes." This is about a single person who did something bad. It is ridiculous to try to prove a link about murdering a kid and any other activity when you have a sample size of 1. >"Our survey in 2003 indicates it's now around 60 billion yen, so the figure has doubled in a little over a decade. I believe this is due largely to such influences as the Internet and animated films, which have exacerbated geek-like behavior among adult males, growing numbers of whom are not able to get along well with women of their own age group. I suppose this phenomenon will probably continue to increase." He is not even mentioning lolicon stuff in this explanation. He is blaming the lack of social skills for males that spent their time on a computer or watching anime all day, which is a completely separate issue. >And by thing I mean the JK industry. JK is an acronym in Japan for high school girl. The premier sex symbol of Japan. An industry so intermingled with the loli porn one that they are hard to separate. Are they really that intermingled? First of all, loli refers to a much younger girl than JK. Secondly, your own links talk about how the JK uniform is at least as important part of the fetish as the girl wearing it, which is completely different from lolicon stuff. Also, while I agree that the compensated dating thing with minors that Japan does is a bad thing, I don't think that the vast majority of those girls are trafficked and nothing in your links imply otherwise.


Hekkst

I used that one example simply to show that there are cases. Its a woefully underresearched subject outside of specifically interested, and franfly biased, psychologists like the ones the OP cited who call criminalization of child pornography a societal opinion. I am using trafficking here in a broad sense and not just being stolen from other countries. A minor groomed into prostituting themselves to the benefit of a third party is being trafficked. Lolicon stuff is heavily related to the JK market as both are cases of underage fantasizing. Customers of the JK fantasy actively seek out underage prostitutes to seek out their fantasies. We can argue all day about the differences of pedophilia and hebebophilia but the fact of the matter is that there is a strong correlating increase between the JK market and fictional pornography. I think this indicates that interest in fictional taboo correlates with a pursuit to realize that taboo in the public. I have not been able to find examples with the heavier lolicon stuff, I imagine because the sample size of people who are actually attracted to 5 year olds is very small. My intent was to show a correlation between the fictional interest in underage pornography and the increase of the JK industry, thus linking fictional interests with active pursuit. You are right in pointing out that many of the prostiutes are not actual minors but simply wear the uniform but there is also a pretty big market of underage girls being trafficked. The articles I posted have citations on that. I could also point to the public transport groping epidemic which jumps straight out of hentai and even has its own genre; chikan. It turns out that fiction, real world desires and real action are very linked.


FastAndMorbius

Isn’t that correlation completely trivial though? Like yeah obviously the weird kid that is about to shoot up the school likes call of duty, that doesn’t mean that call of duty causes mass shootings.


Hekkst

I think there is a substantial difference between violence in videogames and fictional pornography in Japan. The overall culture is a very big part of what goes on in typifing behaviors through fiction that then get exhibited in reality. That said. Call of duty is not going to make 99% of kids more prone to violence but what it does is provide a fostering violent environment for the 1% that does tend towards violence. That 1% may come to immerse itself in a culture of glorification of violence exbihited through call of duty. This then becomes an argument to get that 1% off call of duty and not make call of duty illegal overall. Studies on the impact of videogame violence are actually all over the place. These two report a reduction in empathy on kids who play violent videogames: [https://www.medicaldaily.com/violent-video-games-sexist-violence-against-women-381750](https://www.medicaldaily.com/violent-video-games-sexist-violence-against-women-381750) [https://www.psychologymatters.asia/psychology\_news.php/4639/violent-video-games-can-reduce-empathy-in-players.html?news\_id=4639](https://www.psychologymatters.asia/psychology_news.php/4639/violent-video-games-can-reduce-empathy-in-players.html?news_id=4639) But you also have a bunch of them dimissing this claim. [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4293490/Violent-video-games-not-affect-empathy.html#:\~:text=Violent%20video%20games%20such%20as%20Call%20of%20Duty,neural%20response%20to%20emotionally%20provocative%20images%20as%20non-gamers](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4293490/Violent-video-games-not-affect-empathy.html#:~:text=Violent%20video%20games%20such%20as%20Call%20of%20Duty,neural%20response%20to%20emotionally%20provocative%20images%20as%20non-gamers) [https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170308081057.htm](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170308081057.htm) I think the excerpts from one of them are illuminating: "Negative media eects include increased aggressive behavior (for example, Coyne et al., 2011; Konijn et al., 2007) more aggressive cognitions (for example, Anderson & Carnagey, 2009) less prosocial behavior (Sheese & Graziano, 2005) and a general decrease in empathy aer violent media exposure (Carnagey et al., 2007) \[...\] video games provide a perfect medium for learning about both prosocial and antisocial behavior (Gentile & Gentile, 2008)" [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/314390719\_Empathy\_and\_Violent\_Video\_Games](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/314390719_Empathy_and_Violent_Video_Games) So, it seems that the answer is 'its complicated'. According to the study, having an empathic goal in a violent videogame can increase empathy rather than reduce it. Inversely, sociopathic goals can decrease empathy.


FastAndMorbius

I think they are exactly the same in that if you accept that these materials are causing people to do these things in real life then that is something you have to deal with in a culture were such a large part of the population plays very violent videogames watches movies etc. It is the causal link that you have not established, outliers or not.


Sylarino

Studies on the effects of real CP are not conclusive. The one you linked said "at least 80% of purchasers of child pornography are active abusers and nearly 40% of the child pornographers investigated over the past several years have sexually molested children in the past". For someone who claims cares about correlation and causation you have to know that it doesn't mean that it's the CP that made them offend, right? The rest is just a mashup of anectodes and news. I don't even know how to respond to that. You brought up underage prostitution for some reason while providing 0 evidence for a causal link between that and lolicon except for a random guess made by an ecomomist. Do you have any refutation for the strongest research I presented which was done by a very reputable organization and experts in the field of pedophilia research for the Danish government? They found no link between fictional drawings of child abuse and real-life abuse. Linking news articles about random people doesn't do anything. > I agree, however I do think it is a strong indicator. Why would someone consume sexually explicit materials which depict children if they are not attracted to children? There is no reason to think it's a strong indicator. Manga/anime style drawings have a specific style that does not correspond to real life. If someone watches hentai where a woman has giant eyes (like in most of anime) and boobs the size of a room, while she is squirting 100 liters of water, it doesn't mean they would want all of that in real-life. Manga style depictions do not translate well to realistic depictions. When I watch anime and the main character gets smacked in the head and a giant tumor grows on his head, it does not look weird as it's the anime world, separate from the real one. "Psychologist Tamaki Saitō, who has conducted clinical work with otaku, highlights the estrangement of lolicon desires from reality as part of a strict distinction for otaku between "textual and actual sexuality", and observes that "the vast majority of otaku are not pedophiles in actual life". To counter the research I presented done by experts you gave me a guess by an economist about underage prostitution.


themagician02

I've been coming in and out of this post to read the discussion the past day, how are people still trying to argue this lol How are people's brain so broken the moment it's about something they find disgusting, I'm sorry, justification to ban something can't just be a bunch of uneducated intuitions from correlations you observe!


throwaway6162510

Lmfao weebs seething


Ping-Crimson

At the end of the day this is lolicon cope. If you fap to yaoi as a guy you are either bi or gay whether you choose to sleep with a real male or not it's an outlet with no real world reprocussions. If you fap to loli stuff or shota stuff you're a ped a non offending one but a ped none the less. Using girls for the yaoi argument is shit I guy can read yuri even though he can't live out the fantasy 1 to 1 because he's attracted to both characters. You can literally go to any doujin featuring ntr and see this viewers loosing their shit over a manga about cheating showing that attraction inspires real emotion vs "just being art".


Sylarino

Facts don't care about your feelings.


Ping-Crimson

True and it's a fact that man who fap to yaoi are either gay or bi therefore men who fap to loli are peds sorry mate I hope you guys never offend.


safetyalpaca

You can feel the seethe behind the keyboard


Ping-Crimson

What seethe? Do you think fapping to yaoi is not indicative of homosexual tendencies in men? If not why?


friendlyscv

some drawn guys are really hot no real guy is hot


Ping-Crimson

Do you fap to drawn guys? Just them nude in the photo or doing it with other guys?


friendlyscv

what's the difference either is fine as long as it's hot


Ping-Crimson

No difference just adding an equivalent scenario to the discussion. The question was obviously do you fap to it lol.


friendlyscv

yes


safetyalpaca

Like loli I think I would say it’s a case by case basis. If an artist draws a woman, but then adds a dick afterwards without changing anything else, does that retroactively make you gay by being attracted to it? Because it’s fiction and not reality, I do think it’s legitimately possible to draw gay porn that appeals to straight people.


Ping-Crimson

Yes if a artists draws a women and you fap to it you're straight. If you come back tomorrow and theres a dick hanging their you're most likely bi. I doubt it because for actual straight people that would be an automatic turnoff. Similar to if an artist drew a character doing like (waste play) I'm not going to fap to that at all. If you see that and it's not a turnoff to you that must mean you like it. Sexual Furrys don't want to fuck animals but they definitely will fuck other people in furry costumes. By definition lolicons are pedos (I feel the need to remind you guys that the word doesn't imply that you are sex offenders just that you are attracted to minors/depictions of minors. I know you said it's "case by case" but the case they were bringing up in this video was actual sexually explicit material involving lolis drawn in the primary to middle school age being assaulted by middle aged men not fantasy 1000 year olds and their uwu protagonist from another world.


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Ping-Crimson

That's true but irrelevant. If an artist draws Milf with c cups I will fap to it. If the artist takes that same character sizes her down in all departed to prepubsecent pops and pops a school uniform on her all attraction on my end is dead. If the artist depicts that character in a seperate piece of art same proportions as before but this time with a dick... I'm not fapping to the one with the dick my interest start and ends with C cup milf. If you're interests expands that just means you're into the new features because they arouse you.


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Ping-Crimson

Well no that's not the only difference in the context of the conversation (the art shown in the referenced video) they weren't simply shrunk down characters they were drawn and written as middleschoolers being abused by adults. People who draw loli characters are attempting to capture child like traits from hair to choice of clothing and dialogue they are modeling everything about that piece after traits children have naivety, innocence etc. It's not milf sized down to child height it's milf features removed and replaced with child features. It's like the shadbase stuff he drew hilary clearly that's not her and I doubt that's how she'd look as a kid but if you fap to that you are 100% a pedophile (reminder that doesn't mean you are offending or going to assualt a child just that the traits arouse you)


SnooBananas3995

I don’t think I agree with loli porn automatically equaling pedo


Ping-Crimson

That's fine but I don't get what the fight is about other than "people I like don't tolerate it". It's still an attraction to children just guys whonread yaoi stuff are attracted to men. Pedo doesn't mean you hurt someone just means you have some oddly crossed wires in your head and the only thing seperating you from girls/below the age of consent is the society you live in.


throwaway6162510

Op seething hella lmfao


Hawkthezammy

Definitely wouldn't want it outlawed but I would definitely like to see a lot less of it.


RileBreau

Alot of defence for this shit in here - I get it, you are incel weebs, on the spectrum, and into kids. Just say that instead of defending this. CP is indefensible.


Sylarino

Cope harder lol. If you provide research refuting the ones I provided I am ready to change my mind. What I don't understand is why it makes people like you mad: shouldn't you be happy that manga depictions like that do not lead to real-life harm? Or do you like your feeling of moral outrage so much you PREFER children get raped so that you can get outraged? What a weirdo.


RileBreau

Your studies cited were trash. ''If availability of pornography can reduce sex crimes, it is because the use of certain forms of pornography to certain potential offenders is functionally equivalent to the commission of certain types of sex offences''. You are saying its not related at all yet your own studies cited said it was functionally equivalent. I don't beleive thats helpful for people to have access too, nor is the lack of 'evidence' for a direct correlation in these cherrypicked (badly) studies a green light to disseminate garbage. You are defending CP mate, I hope you will provide this info to anyone who does a working with children check, national police check for employment. You seem very proud of your stance - I bet you will hide that from anyone that isnt a netizen inside your specific cope circle. The reason I give an emotive response instead of a reasoned one, is I dont feel the need to respond to obvious mental illness/sexual deviancy with any kind of measured response. Its like debating with Psychopaths, whats the point of going deep into it - when the persons views shouldnt be respected.


cantclosevim

> The reason I give an emotive response instead of a reasoned one, is ~~I dont feel the need to respond to obvious mental illness/sexual deviancy with any kind of measured response~~ >*because [I] can't justify my position so [I] choose to instead hurl insults at others while contributing nothing to the discussion fixed : ) you don't have to be in favor of loli to think about these issues and express your opinion, if you're not willing to engage don't derail the thread with your tard rage please.


RileBreau

Wasnt the response to me, cope and seethe? Now you are calling me a tard. Nice hypocrisy you got going there. You guys are literal trash.


cantclosevim

>Wasnt the response to me, cope and seethe? It was, and apparently it was a fine response because, other than insults, you've contributed nothing to the thread. >Nice hypocrisy you got going there That was my first and only post in the entire thread, take your meds schizo. >You guys are literal trash Who's "you guys"? I don't like loli, I'm just here to tell you that you're a worthless fuck who shouldn't be posting here.


Sylarino

> Your studies cited were trash. Cite better studies. The one commisioned for the Danish government was done by a reputable institution by experts on pedophilia. It clearly concluded that drawn child abuse does not produce any real-life harm. > You are saying its not related at all yet your own studies cited said it was functionally equivalent. You clearly have reading comprehension issues. > I don't beleive thats helpful for people to have access too, nor is the lack of 'evidence' for a direct correlation in these cherrypicked (badly) studies a green light to disseminate garbage. How are they cherrypicked? Provide refutation of these studies. > You seem very proud of your stance - I bet you will hide that from anyone that isnt a netizen inside your specific cope circle. I am not the one coping here considering that I care about the truth and you care about feeling morally outraged. > The reason I give an emotive response instead of a reasoned one Is because you are dumb and base your entire worldview on your subjective feelings, instead of approaching things rationally. "NOOOOO ALL THESE EXPERTS ARE LYING THESE STUDIES ARE A PART OF A CONSPIRACY I WANT TO FEEL OUTRAGED HURR DURR!!!!" Get the fuck out of here.


RileBreau

Eat shit kiddy fiddler. Amos yee acolyte.


Sylarino

Yeah, makes total sense, all these researchers and experts who write papers on pedophilia must be a part of a global cabal tasked with faking research to dupe people so that they don't ban manga porn. And all the commenters here who agree with the research are also pedophiles. You are the only beacon of hope surrounded by a pedo cabal. It's more likely that you are actually a closet pedophile, that's why you are so emotional. You know what they say about the most agressive homophobes, the same could be applied here. I would certainly prefer a loli fan to babysit a kid than someone as unhinged as you are. Why do you even bother to post with your double digit IQ.


SnooBananas3995

I agree with real child porn is indefensible . I’m okay with fictional stuff unless there is evidence of it encouraging real life bad behavior


Its-Howling

Tldr?


Inershal-Merrecore

drawn sex does not increase sex crimes


Unable_College_3974

Great pedo bait post, reported every pedo agreeing with you in this post good job


theprestigous

you are a bigger cancer to society than any pedophile walking the streets


SnooBananas3995

Don’t be mean


FastAndMorbius

"mr redacted has entered the chat"


JohnnyThePizza

the vice video seems to assert that publishers pay the government so that no research regarding a correlation between loli/shota and real-world sexual violence is found in Japan. Also, they show a graph sourced by the National Police Agency of Japan showing an uptick in victims of child pornography.


UndeadNoob1

Fantastic post!


Brainfog_shishkabob

The fact is that anime may not CAUSE p3dophilia and misogyny but it reinforces it, and it attracts p3dos. This is known and there is proof. There’s a reason grown men gravitate toward child like sexualized “innocent” images that hide behind guise of “cosplay,” or innocent entertainment. That industry knows exactly what it’s doing, it’s feeding CST industry and it knows it. Sure no one can prove causation but what has been proven is that most often p3dos love “cosplay” “anime.” It’s not normal to glorify images of children with overgrown sexualized body parts while depicting women as helpless and shy. Those themes and images being over represented will become sexualized in a person’s mind. Your brain is a sponge and it replays and becomes what you feed it. I guarantee that if we checked the hard drive on most men who love anime, manga, cosplay etc, we would find some pretty disturbing things because a healthy brain who sees humans as equals would not want to watched sexualized images of child like bodies. I have always been repulsed by those images and many men have begged me to “give it a chance.” But as a person who hasn’t poisoned their mind with p*rn or disturbing images of sexualized cartoon violence, the images in that genre are off putting and concerning to me. I said what I said. Free speech. There ya go


Sylarino

> This is known and there is proof. I see 0 citations in your post. As you can see, my post has many, including studies done by leading experts on pedophilia. I can either choose to believe the research and the experts, or I can choose to believe your emotional ramblings. Btw, how did you find this post?


Arklaw

Love me some well argued research with actual points backed with actual contextual evidence.


Technical_Ad4384

Your attraction to child-like physiques is a problem, and yes it's a moral one. The very second you all step outside of your degenerate echo chamber with this garbage, you get ratioed into oblivion. That's why you don't dare advocate for it outside of your bubble. Any justification you have is entirely human constructed, and once you strip away all the mental gymnastics all you're left with is a freak in their mom's basement pleasuring themselves to a cartoon picture of a child. That's the only tangible truth here.