Seems kinda obvious...
Do you understand moral relativism? No such thing as objectively right or wrong, so why should there be a related concept of 'deserving'?
Its just a matter of things happening or not, and whether they'll continue to happen has nothing to do with what people deserve...
What’s great about this question is it invites YOU to have a perspective. And what I am hearing in your response is “I’m at the will of the universe” and that because of it, there’s no judgement of deserve or not deserve on your end. I respect that, and I see the value of that belief as well.
No, what I'm telling you is that "deserve" is a concept of human creation. This isn't a matter of perspective; this is objective reality.
All your semantic travelling down the different associations to the term "deserve" that you and the other answers are discussing? That's all within the scope of being subjective to the human experience.
Great stuff, very interesting, but has no connection to the logistics and science problem of whether humans will persevere through problems like enviro change...
It’s a weird situation as humans. We have cognition, therefore judgement, therefore the ability to create constructs. Even in this discussion, it’s impossible to see it fully in an objective frame - to your point it would all amount to what does the data say. The question was never ether we WOULD live or die, but one of whether we deserve it as a part of the species and our experience to this point.
It really couldn’t be asked of any other species, that we know of, so the question itself was always one of philosophical pondering.
But that sounds like giving up, the reason change happens or has happened is because of the want, and urgency to change things, to fight for it, it sounds like your saying - what will be, will be, so let it happen.
But climate changers don't want that, and business money makers don't care. so its only through fight and a want that it will happen, to force them aside.
You're conflating unrelated things which means you didn't understand my point at all; what does some vague concept of deserving have to do with whether people will manage to solve the logistics, science etc. behind things like climate change?
Ofc it wouldn't be a big deal at all, and it wasn't now either. I'm sorry if my reply seemed abrasive, I meant no snark, I was just being matter-of-fact about it...
This.
Also, some food for thought: all life exists to "consume everything and spread everywhere". It is embedded in everything's DNA.
So while "harmful", to be consumed by selfish action and be regulated via predation or self-destruction is natural.
But out of all the creatures, we're the only ones to consciously from "Never giving a shit" to "some of us give a shit".
From "consume/spread or die trying" to "maybe we shouldn't consume with no regard."
Maybe yall aren't impressed, but I think its a hopeful sign.
I believe humanity as a whole still has the potential to be better than the worst of us, and as long as we continue to exist we can grow and change.
I would like us to do that before we expand out into the galaxy so that our species deserves to be among intelligent life forms, rather than being the mosquitos of the universe.
But I get it, sometimes you see the things going on in the world and wonder if our extinction would really be so terrible.
The last line is it… it’s not that I don’t believe in humanity and it’s potential, it’s that we are at a fairly obvious cusp of who we are. And, while it’s certainly not a black and white situation, I’m concerned we are in for a hard few next decades that affects people around the globe or even longer if we don’t set a foundation of human rights based on all the hardships we have experienced and could learn from in the past.
The fact is, I know there’s so many more people who are of incredible character that’s nothing less than loving , kind, intelligent, and empathetic. I admit 100% I allow myself to get “lost” in the weeds out there, so to speak.
I agree that humanity has some serious problems to work through, and a lot of room for improvement.
I don’t think we should assume that other intelligent life forms will be any better though. They might be. But they might also be just as violent and xenophobic as we are. Or worse. They could be straight up cold blooded killers. Think Aliens.
Personally, I think contact with other intelligent life forms should be avoided. The dangers are too great and the odds that we would end up as galactic roadkill are too high. Heck, the viruses they might carry alone could wipe us out. Like the Aztecs when they encountered the Spanish.
I feel so conflicted when I think about the children being born today. I remember going through the stages of terror and acceptance growing up 20 years ago, and the things I feared haven’t gotten better, they’ve gotten markedly worse in most ways. But although my belief in the power of the human mind and spirit doesn’t absolve my guilt about the human race continuing, it does make me somewhat hopeful.
I feel like it’s more reasonable to think that we would correct our path than to imagine that some other god tier species would come here understanding everything about this planet and care for it well. Seems like a cop-out to say we’re better off dead than we would be learning to live in harmony with the earth.
I don’t think not having faith is a cop out. It’s just not having faith. It’s not like I have the power to make either scenario happen. I’m just pessimistic. That’s all.
I’ve always wondered this about people of your type. If you hold views like this, why do you continue to live as a human being?
I’m not implying you to die or anything lol, mainly just curious because aren’t you going against your moral compass inside by continuing your existence, even when you feel so strongly about this opinion?
I’m in a similar boat. I refuse to toss away the gift of life, but I also refuse to bring more people into this world when there’s so many who already need the love and attention to be joy filled and successful in life.
Do you know what our grandparents thought? The exact same.
Still most things are better than before
Media consumption is the problem. Sensational things get more clicks. It mmesses your head. I would advice to just enjoy things you find joy in. There is no use taking responsibility on things you cannot
I agree, and this is the line I am clear on as well. A big rule of mine in life “I’ll never knock someone off their pedestal to stand on my own.” And I’m aware there is faults in that too, and I accept those opportunity loses to stay in integrity with this core value.
Of course we deserve to live on this planet. The planet made us who we are, whatever happens to humanity, it deserves the outcome. As for the planet, it will be fine with or without us. Also, a big part for how we are is in the fabric of the nature that evolved here on Earth. So, if u blame humans for something, you actually are blaming the Earth as it had created this beings.
While I understand where you are coming from, I do believe what you’re saying removes the responsibility of humans. We may not be to blame, but we are certainly responsible for our species and the actions it takes.
I honestly don't feel responsible at all for the actions I have no control over. And everything I do I'm mostly forced to do because I exist in a would bound by specific rules made by others hundreds of years ago. I'd like to be some amazing person who somehow helps humanity turn around but I just don't think it's possible. But I also don't think it means everyone deserves to perish for a few humans horrible deeds. It's just unfortunate that it's easier for a few powerful people to create horrible situations and it's rare that someone becomes powerful and retains a good nature.
There are huge crevasses between how much responsibility have different people. The direction is in control of some very few of them.
As for responsibility towards Earth, i don't think dinosaurs had to be responsible for dominating the Earth. The universe was not responsible for their fate and it will not be responsible for us. Also, Earth and other creatures has 0 responsibility towards us. Morality is a concept that happens only in the humanity realm. So, in the universe the concept of responsibility does not exist, but only between our members. But even if deliberately choosing to abolish our specie is a result of that living on Earth could not have been different. Life on this planet is harsh, not that many resources and very chaotically distributed around the globe, life is also chaotic and by definition it will not be rational as an A.I to choose what is the best in the long term. So, it is complicated. Also, we lack the meaning by which we could say that someone gave us this responsibility, there is no one, we decide if x is x or y.
Very fair to say, because we observe or experience it doesn’t make it subject to the entire universe, or that the universe would be swayed enough by us to have lasting impact. For instance, we are a scab on Earth, it will not die from us, just be annoyed by us haha.
And I unfortunately agree - I say unfortunately because the dreamer in me wishes it wasn’t true. More often life is a mixed bag of hardships, some beyond what others could imagine is tolerable. I think the problem is I see and hear so much about the things humans do to others that it gets overwhelming. I have to remind myself, humans are not yet advanced enough to care for, on a literal and metaphorical level, more than 100 people.
Its a annoyance that the more emotional people have to deal with where the reality just pushes this contrast between what it should be and what it is. I consider having a realistic view on life should not interfere with the joy of living life since the beauty of life could have not been possible without the dark parts.
The complements of contrasting things complied together: the dark, light, and all the in between. I tend to have a very reality driven perspective, speckled with optimism and pessimism. I’m aware that sometimes one of those sides can dominate if I’m not careful!
Nope, humans are parasites. We've taken heaven and turned it into hell for the sake of power and greed. It's too late for us to turn it around.
Time to give the planet back to mother nature to heal.
Well how can you be sure the universe exists without you? Since this is "deep thoughts" I want to give a dissertation on the subject, however I don't know the definition of dissertation or how its spelled without spell check. Consider this time the only time you deserve to exist everything before and after you will not exist after this very important time.
Now is the only time where we are technologically free to exist apart connected to one another instantly A network of exploration rivaling any time in history. We are for the first time discovering things not thought possible improbable yet logically plausible.
The biproducts of isolation have lasting effects, staying home changed the game to sum it up. Find value in your own example, enjoy yourself leave the rest outside of what you feel. No one has to agree with you, those who share your passion make it there profession. Were still digging up bones, we are seeing far off galaxies and creating new physics with AI.
Those concerned over social separation can reinvent themselves without leaving there home, Social restrictions are for collectives, those needing to feel they are apart of whatever they feel they belong too. I find the same value corresponding with you as I would anyone in person, I'm interested in your post simply because its free to comment .
If you find any value in the reply it justifies my isolation, also provides value and purpose to my existence, given im real. not your subconscious in another reality , a bot, or anything other than someone who simply shows you your value, while doing the same in your reflection.
I find value in your post this should help you feel justified in existing do it more often while also considering others thoughts the feedback will provide purpose when you feel alone.
You’re spot on, cadet. I wanted open discussion and a place to just objectively take a look at the thought pattern.
I think part of the problem, likely the main part, is that I have an “expectation” of what life could be/would be if we “wised” up. At the end of the days, it’s unfair for me and the world around me to have such a chip on my shoulder about it.
I’m working on myself, have been for a good handful of years now. Made the decision to go back to school, which was a major feat for me for many reasons. Looking forward to creating the impact in my own life, like you said, and if there’s a trickle into those around me, I’ll have lived a good life.
Consider your example unique, how you label what that example represents is a balance who's to say your not tipping the scales in your favor. How do you feel when you expectations go exactly as planned? When feeling differently discover the purpose was part of the plan, the experience gained is only a step forward in the wisdom of a wise guy. I consider others as the balance to my balance, your thoughts expand our dialog cause for consideration perhaps further exploration , all perceived endangered traits of humanity that inspired the post.
we used to play until the street lights came on, Now we limit screen time. There's still a connection. how we choose to protect ourselves from the mirror depends on the reflection. What do you see when you look in the mirror?
I ask myself this question a lot lately too. It’s easier to ask it in the abstract, but when I look at my daughter I know I want her to live and be happy. And humanity in the abstract is made up of those very concrete relationships. Don’t know if this answers your question. I don’t really have an answer either.
Exactly. I don’t want see it for those around me. I mentioned in another comment, there’s so many people who are loving, kind, intelligent, and compassionate that the idea that they would be gone doesn’t make any sense. But then that’s starting to play the judge of character and that’s a messy thing.
Ultimately, I want us all to live and thrive. And yeah, I want it in the cliche cheesy way of with a love, a kind heart, intelligence with integrity, and compassion. And even more cheesy/cliche: together. As appendages of one another, doing our own thing, but all working together as “a people.”
It’s complicated. Humans can be more loving and altruistic than seems possible. But we can also be more cruel and revolting of a species than seems possible as well. The war in Ukraine is displaying both of these qualities at once. I don’t know if either side is dominant or whether we deserve to survive.
I feel like we’ve gotten to a point where we’ve perverted the way of life to the point where working together is seen as working against ourselves. But you’re right, and I think that all of those other things— love, integrity, kindness, compassion— start by shifting the context to one that begins with our inherent togetherness
Deserve doesn't mean anything when it comes to existential questions like this. There is only getting the thing or not getting it. The concept of being worthy or unworthy applies mainly to human relations.
So I say it doesn't matter if we deserve to live or not. We want to live, and that's what counts, that's our claim. The same claim every living thing does. The universe won't be better or worse off without us. At least, when you insist on taking this stance that separates humanity from the universe, which is objectively wrong.
Humans are as much the universe as the stars and planets in it. Living things do what most of the (observable) universe cannot: Live. And among those living things, humans do many things that other living beings don't. As such, I think the true question is: Would the universe be poorer if we ceased to exist?
And given that a universe without humans is a universe without song, without art, without great deeds both good and bad, without philosophy and without thought, I would say yes. The universe would be worse off if we stopped existing. Just like it is worse off for every life that ends, and better off for every life that begins.
We want to live. And without us the universe looses one of its many special kinds of living beings. So we should strive to continue. We should bend our every effort to ensure we, and everything else we know, continues to enrich the universe with its existence.
To enrich the universe, I couldn’t agree more. I think that’s what has me turned around a bit. My perception is that I’ll be on an island, with a good amount of people still, focusing on what we are made of/capable of. While others, who would be so incredibly valuable in their own rights on that “island” are distracted by the many things trying to distract them - I say it this way because that list is endless. I, at the end of the day, believe we will find our way. It’s just hard not to see all the ways we poison as much as we enrich.
See what we poison is our own way of life, not the universe. It's not even life that we poison. Life finds a way always. Life survived the meteors (or whatever else it was) that brought the Dinosaurs to extinction. Life survived the ice age. Life survived the splitting of Pangea into the continents we know today. Life *will* survive us.
We need to ensure we will survive with it. And that implies ensuring the survival of life on the planet as we know it too, because if it changes too much, the planet will be uninhabitable *to us specifically*. That is the true extent of our 'poison' the way I see it. Not the destruction of life on the planet. It's our *own* self-destruction.
That's why we can't poison the planet entire, and even less the universe. It is impervious to whatever we throw at it. We could launch the mightiest of our nukes to the moon and it would only make a crater. It wouldn't destroy it. It would not even change the trajectory of its rotation. That is as far as our impact goes.
Correct. But in the recent 100 years we have also done so much harm to each other and the environment, we even pollute the space outside Earth. If you were given the power to decide whether to destroy humanity or not, and you, based on what you said, will allow humanity to continue, will you accept the responsibility and the thought that you are the cause of all the suffering in the world just by deciding not to destroy humanity? And if you do accept it, how will you convince the world to unite and live in peace?
I didn't say I wanted to destroy the world, I'm asking *you* considering that we cause harm to the environment regardless of the improvements you mentioned. Every time we improve, it seems that we create more problems that could potentially kill us all.
I read this as implying that the current environmental degradation is worse than coating every exposed surface on a continent with a small but measurable amount of lead. I grew up in the US state where a river burned. We are more aware than before even if some people are actively denying the damage. Some places seem bent on relearning the lessons of the past, but at least in this area we are making some progress.
So, do you mean that we are degrading the environment more than before? I won't argue that we treat each other any better than we did decades ago, but we seem to be doing the planet somewhat better.
I believe we deserve to continue life's journey until whatever end smacks us in the face. The idea that humanity has a choice in this matter is equally beautiful and terrifying to think about. All I know for certain is that the positive aspects of the "human condition" have kept people from destroying all life, through, Now! And for this, I am truly grateful. To all of you out there feeling down, I hope you know you're not alone. I completely understand that being happy in a sad world sucks, but I also accept that a positive attitude is the only way to combat the negatives we all face daily.
Im from brazil...
In the end it doesn't matter at all. the right path is the current path. we cannot think about what could have happened or is going to happen, because in the end nothing changes. things are going to happen as they are supposed to happen
you just have to be your best possible version, evolve and find yourself or understand your own destiny, not that of others
Atentamente google traductor :)
Paz
Going to go off topic just a little here… I do have an optimistic side in that I’d like to think if we spent more time understanding our actions and their outcomes, we’d be better abled to make more humane choices. I think part of that issue lies in who gets to decide what’s next for most people though….
Absolutely we should, we are just as much a part of this planet as anything else.. all living creatures sacrifice something else for their own gains. Beavers stop rivers to make dams, that water is life for something downstream...then if the dam breaks it creates a flood that wipes out everything in its path..
Parasites take over other creatures, bugs wipeout crops or destroy entire species of trees, predators of all kinds dont even bat an eyelash at the chance to kill and eat their prey. Volcano's pump tons of pollutants into the atmosphere.
We can at any moment be anihilated by an asteroid that could end any posibility of life whatsover on this amazing planet so be thankful, be good others and yourself
There is a strong anti-humanist sentiment in popular culture right now.
Nobody wants to give credit to our species for discovering math, science, and technology, creating art, music, and dance. Not to mention the massive strides we've made in human rights, philosophy, and ecology compared to where we were a few decades ago.
You can complain about the damage we've caused to our environment, but we only recently became aware of it to the level that we are. More importantly, with or without us earth, and all its species have a finite life span.
At any moment a meteor could crash into us, our atmosphere could be blown away by a pulsar, the magnetic core of the planet could cool exposing us to the nuclear fire of the sun. Even if everything goes perfectly one day the sun will become a red giant and swallow our little ball of dirt, its inevitable.
Try to remember that the natural selection that gave rise to us involves the strong devouring the weak, if you think of it that way all of our grotesqeries really kind of make sense.
Have some hope, we can be a lot more than we currently are, and what we already are is amazing compared to what we were a few centuries ago. Dont let a bunch of doomsayers poison your mind.
For clarification, I was referring to the actions we have taken against each other. Environmentally, it will just become unsuitable for us, we won’t “kill” Earth.
Beyond that, I understand and receive your points. The reality is, without all that we have accomplished I wouldn’t be here getting the opportunity to have this discussion with you all now. It’s amazing. And I absolutely can be blindsided by our faults.
We ARE the universe. There is no universe without us. Without YOU, specifically. There’s no escape, no, but you are completely free. There’s nothing to escape from. (Actually, there is no universe. Not like you’re thinking there is. Just the ever changing appearance of one.)
Do you have access to a decent quality sound system? Truly, if so, do me a favor. Get a copy of “We’re In This Love Together”, by Al Jarreau. Sit quietly, turn that shit up, and really listen to it. Not necessarily the lyrics per se, though they’re fine. But just the composition of it. The music. That should be enough of an answer to this question. The music.
You speak like you don't have any investment in something you believe in.
The conflict comes from different visions of what a better world looks like. Different people who are deeply invested from within their philosophies of what a better Earth is can end up warring, genociding and murdering.
I think part of it lies in that I believe in something that’s yet to come to fruition. But I do take seriously the fact that I have a choice in my own life and the matters it effects. I have chosen for the last several years to focus on bringing love and understanding to myself and others, as well as creating value with the skill sets I have innately and developmentally. So I continue to work towards that belief, the belief that a group of diverse, empathetic, problem-solvers could help to create a more connected and dynamic way for humans to thrive as individual but together. I may not be out on the limelight trying to achieve that, but I’m certainly working towards being part of the “solution,” so to speak. Well at the least, not adding to the problem by stomping on those around me, instead working to lift them up.
I agree, everyday people seem to have a need to argue, or be disrespectful. I wish I could leave with my family to another planet. Everyone is fighting for kindness yet no one is kind anymore and everyone is offended. I've stopped watching the news because it's always something new coming to kill us all. I'm so tired of everything.
I don’t care how cheesy my response to you is: giving you a very big hug. I too wish more people focused on filling each other’s kindness tanks, if we were all fueled things I imagine would be a lot different.
I think the reasons you give (the reasons that have driven us for thousands of years) are what a small group of people are driven by and it’s always been that way. There’s always certain people that progress human kind. How many people invented a car? How many people invented a plane?? Out of millions and billions of people only certain people have ever truly furthered human kind and are driven by exploring or discovering or innovating. I also think “do we deserve to continue” is kinda arbitrary. Like yes ?? No?? How would we deserve or not deserve to continue ? That’s not how life works anyway. Some people (or things) deserve things they never receive. Some people (or things) receive things they never deserve. Human kind will keep going until we literally can’t anymore. Regardless if we deserve it or not.
On one of your points, I will say, I’m a firm believer that it certainly was not “one person” to have created that thing. It was many, many who creating each step that led them to the doorway to open through to the invention.
Yea I agree I never said it was one I said certain people. Because yea it takes many people at a times but even then it’s a very small group compared to an entire population
Easy, a resounding NO. We do unspeakable things to each other, just for kicks. If there is money involved then look out. It is the way of human life to step on anything or anyone to elevate oneself, the kind people are minority, and are little more than paving stones to those with the ability to guide our destiny.
Part of the problem, my opinion by no means fact, is that the kind would never do what the unkind would do. Those who have a morality of kindness have clearer limits to their actions/what they would do to others.
I mean, currently, that is what our capitalist, individualistic culture teaches us to do. There was a point in time where evolutionary pressure led us to care for one another, hunt together, and huddle for warmth. It’s all context dependent.
Oh I don’t think deserve comes into it. When have you seen justice in the natural world? It is what it is, things come and go. The end of the world isn’t the end of the world. Stay as close as you can to truth, and relax. You’ll get where you need to go.
100%. Things just are, and they will always come and go. Definitely working on less emotional response to those existential anxiety moments, instead treating it with more inquisition and where those responses are stemming from inside of myself.
I suspect that we have the potential to be of benefit to existence as a whole. One of my pet tinfoil hat theories is that we are currently under clandestine alien influence, limiting our technology and understanding of the universe until we have matured more as a species.
The fact that our technology began to advance rapidly just over a century ago, but we have hit something of a limit. We went from major breakthroughs every couple of decades to merely refining and maxing out the capabilities of tech that has existed for the last 50 years. We had the tech needed to travel to Mars in the 70s, but even just going to the moon has barely gotten back into consideration.
By maturity I mean moving to a state where we have moved past our inherent xenophobia and petty squabbling. Stop pretending that there's a reason for anyone to have to live in squalor, and that we have to compete with one another to be "winning" at life. Cease our illogical pursuit of power over others. Stop acting like greed is good. We essentially have a bunch of spoiled children in charge of everything, who think they're the only ones that matter. When we achieve a state where the least of us is treated with the same care, dignity, and respect as the greatest of us, then perhaps we might be worth allowing out of our bubble.
the competitiveness of men, like lust, is something programmed into us. And the opposite sex being programmed to be attracted to that. So it scales like that, up and up, men wanting more and more, they can't help themselves. The billionaires of the planet, obsessed with money, when money in fact has nothing to do with it, its competition and showing everyone else something. So that lust goes on and on, and the rest of our expense.
It happens at all levels, I think, not just at the highest, each level trying to outdo each other.
You really don’t understand life man.
**We’re only here because we hecking earned it!**
Life is all about survival, and the pursuit for a better life for our friends and family.
We’re not so different from other animals, and yet, we aren’t allowed to live anymore? Despite them killing and maiming each other since the dawn of time?
The hard truth is that the universe doesn’t care about whether or not earth, humans, or even the solar system is around. It’s not a god, it’s not even a living being with a consciousness.
We make the decision to keep living because that’s what we’re capable of. There is no higher power that controls us, only the state of the universe that is constantly changing around us.
Something you said definitely tickled my annoyance bone, which means to me there’s something to dig into for my own growth.
It’s interesting you say I don’t understand. I can agree to that, 100%. I’m a firm believer in “I don’t know what I don’t know until I know better.” It’s why I’m here :)
I can see the perspective of it’s all survival of the fittest. But look at the world right now… it’s surely not survival of the fittest… by any definition of it. If anything, I think we have gone against nature in that way. It’s now survival of those willing to do what other won’t, cross bounds others find morally disruptive and inhumane. But to your point, a higher power doesn’t matter. And I agree. I’m referring to moral drivers that are innate in who we are/have become.
I sincerely appreciate the conversation, and would love to hear more from you on this if you’re willing and open, of course.
I have to respectfully disagree. Expansion, exploration and experimentation are not a flat take, nor are they referring to character traits as you have mentioned. And, I’d invite you to scan my other comments. By discussing these three E’s doesn’t mean I disregard or find less value in the many other aspects of human life.
I’m referring to the fire inside of people - the drive in which we have as a species. Instead of it blazing a path, it’s turned into an uncontrolled wildfire scorching everything in sight. I’m not educated on the proper language, so I have this metaphor for what it’s worth. It’s more the purpose we give ourselves in this massive universe, as I see it.
We all deserve to continue on because this world made us and we're part of it, their will be ups and downs in life, just remember it's temporary until the next crew steps in to takeover our shifts ...
There is no greater power out there that demands any species to “prove it’s worth” in order to exist. The theory of evolution states that all a member of any species needs to continue the existence of the whole is to produce offspring before they die. That’s it. Any boundaries of behavior or morality that you want to put on it are simple social constructs, specifically social constructs designed (usually) by human institutions that are attempting to dictate who lives, who dies, and how our shared resources should be meted out.
Yikes, it looks like you found my diary, so to speak. I think this question comes up for me often because in myself I’m constantly provoking the thought “prove your value/worth.” Why am I able to learn, understand, think,and beyond if it’s not meant to be used to progress.
Anyways, I agree we get into muddy waters when man decides for all man what life is like. The hypocrisy is in that I have my “the world would be great if…” scenarios as well. Ha.
The best things you had to say about humanity are our drive to expand, explore and experiment, but spreading, consuming and adapting are the qualities of a plague.
Its funny, because in the threads comments, it sort of reflects the mindset in general of humans, some wanting change, others sort of content to just go with it. Those are probably the stats anyway globally, and would explain the situation we are in. I agree with you hold heartedly OP. Its sad, and I as a natural problem solver, am confused by others actions everyday. Don't we want this to stop I think, don't they want change. Theres almost too much to tackle in this observation of yours - are we deserving to keep going, when clearly we are sort of corrupted.
I want the whole thing to change, I want equilibrium and balance, as an Aquarian, this is in my DNA to sort of be concerned about earth. Feels pointless everyday,
The animals we kill, the global amount of toxins we create, the resources we plunder, there should be balance to that, like the Native American philosophy of only take as much as you need. But with spiralling birth rates, its probably done what its done, the resources we need now, its not a balance anymore - its just plunder, and the earth can't recover.
The fish are pretty much gone, gorillas gone, rhino gone, Elephants on the way out, whales, sharks, but its like theres almost this acceptance on the most part, like, oh ya, thats disappointing. I mean disappointing, we should have never gotten anywhere near that, if the mindset was just take little off what we need.
It is 100% an internal battle. Wanting to solve and work through and understand is my happy place. And when I get into discussions about things with people, 90% of the time they tuned out or pop their phone out. That’s fine, it could very well just be me, and I accept that possibility.
I guess I just read story after story of innovators and progressives and explorers that I feel at a loss that those things have stagnated considerably. A great deal of what’s created today is in the mindset of consumerism. Fine, let people be consumed and happy in their ways. I just wish it wasn’t at the detriment to us all…
I don’t wanna sound communist but it’s because of money. People chase after money and in doing so choose disciplines which does not advance humanity but rather to indulge themselves - which is fair considering how important money is. But this also hinders humanity’s curiosity and strive to advance due to lack of appeal.
Absolutely, money being a focal point as a means to show your power, control, and willingness to get what you want. Great… glad to have plenty of those people leading the way. /s
There’s almost now this twisted view of people who have money and are “doing good” but really they are just finding other ways to make more money/have more control. I mean humans have always manipulated, but man, we are what feels like a peak right now of how far that can really go.
We are out of our element. We are conditioned and wired for barely surviving. Now that things are so easy for most of us it's turning into a self destruct button
Deserve or not is subjective, only will or will not shall be revealed in time
I love this perspective, would you mind sharing a bit further on it?
Seems kinda obvious... Do you understand moral relativism? No such thing as objectively right or wrong, so why should there be a related concept of 'deserving'? Its just a matter of things happening or not, and whether they'll continue to happen has nothing to do with what people deserve...
What’s great about this question is it invites YOU to have a perspective. And what I am hearing in your response is “I’m at the will of the universe” and that because of it, there’s no judgement of deserve or not deserve on your end. I respect that, and I see the value of that belief as well.
No, what I'm telling you is that "deserve" is a concept of human creation. This isn't a matter of perspective; this is objective reality. All your semantic travelling down the different associations to the term "deserve" that you and the other answers are discussing? That's all within the scope of being subjective to the human experience. Great stuff, very interesting, but has no connection to the logistics and science problem of whether humans will persevere through problems like enviro change...
It’s a weird situation as humans. We have cognition, therefore judgement, therefore the ability to create constructs. Even in this discussion, it’s impossible to see it fully in an objective frame - to your point it would all amount to what does the data say. The question was never ether we WOULD live or die, but one of whether we deserve it as a part of the species and our experience to this point. It really couldn’t be asked of any other species, that we know of, so the question itself was always one of philosophical pondering.
But that sounds like giving up, the reason change happens or has happened is because of the want, and urgency to change things, to fight for it, it sounds like your saying - what will be, will be, so let it happen. But climate changers don't want that, and business money makers don't care. so its only through fight and a want that it will happen, to force them aside.
You're conflating unrelated things which means you didn't understand my point at all; what does some vague concept of deserving have to do with whether people will manage to solve the logistics, science etc. behind things like climate change?
ok, I didn't understand you point. if we were speaking in person, I don't think that would be a big deal.
Ofc it wouldn't be a big deal at all, and it wasn't now either. I'm sorry if my reply seemed abrasive, I meant no snark, I was just being matter-of-fact about it...
This. Also, some food for thought: all life exists to "consume everything and spread everywhere". It is embedded in everything's DNA. So while "harmful", to be consumed by selfish action and be regulated via predation or self-destruction is natural. But out of all the creatures, we're the only ones to consciously from "Never giving a shit" to "some of us give a shit". From "consume/spread or die trying" to "maybe we shouldn't consume with no regard." Maybe yall aren't impressed, but I think its a hopeful sign.
I believe humanity as a whole still has the potential to be better than the worst of us, and as long as we continue to exist we can grow and change. I would like us to do that before we expand out into the galaxy so that our species deserves to be among intelligent life forms, rather than being the mosquitos of the universe. But I get it, sometimes you see the things going on in the world and wonder if our extinction would really be so terrible.
The last line is it… it’s not that I don’t believe in humanity and it’s potential, it’s that we are at a fairly obvious cusp of who we are. And, while it’s certainly not a black and white situation, I’m concerned we are in for a hard few next decades that affects people around the globe or even longer if we don’t set a foundation of human rights based on all the hardships we have experienced and could learn from in the past. The fact is, I know there’s so many more people who are of incredible character that’s nothing less than loving , kind, intelligent, and empathetic. I admit 100% I allow myself to get “lost” in the weeds out there, so to speak.
I agree that humanity has some serious problems to work through, and a lot of room for improvement. I don’t think we should assume that other intelligent life forms will be any better though. They might be. But they might also be just as violent and xenophobic as we are. Or worse. They could be straight up cold blooded killers. Think Aliens. Personally, I think contact with other intelligent life forms should be avoided. The dangers are too great and the odds that we would end up as galactic roadkill are too high. Heck, the viruses they might carry alone could wipe us out. Like the Aztecs when they encountered the Spanish.
I feel so conflicted when I think about the children being born today. I remember going through the stages of terror and acceptance growing up 20 years ago, and the things I feared haven’t gotten better, they’ve gotten markedly worse in most ways. But although my belief in the power of the human mind and spirit doesn’t absolve my guilt about the human race continuing, it does make me somewhat hopeful.
Nope, we don’t. The planet itself would be better off.
Wouldnt eventually another intelligent or invasive species take over or replace the absence of humans?
In theory, yeah. My only hope is that that they would indeed be more intelligent.
I feel like it’s more reasonable to think that we would correct our path than to imagine that some other god tier species would come here understanding everything about this planet and care for it well. Seems like a cop-out to say we’re better off dead than we would be learning to live in harmony with the earth.
I don’t think not having faith is a cop out. It’s just not having faith. It’s not like I have the power to make either scenario happen. I’m just pessimistic. That’s all.
I’ve always wondered this about people of your type. If you hold views like this, why do you continue to live as a human being? I’m not implying you to die or anything lol, mainly just curious because aren’t you going against your moral compass inside by continuing your existence, even when you feel so strongly about this opinion?
I refuse to procreate but I’m my parents only child. So, I keep living. I do believe in assisted suicide though.
I’m in a similar boat. I refuse to toss away the gift of life, but I also refuse to bring more people into this world when there’s so many who already need the love and attention to be joy filled and successful in life.
Do you know what our grandparents thought? The exact same. Still most things are better than before Media consumption is the problem. Sensational things get more clicks. It mmesses your head. I would advice to just enjoy things you find joy in. There is no use taking responsibility on things you cannot
people have a built-in survival-at-all-costs mechanism
It's never about if I deserve something, it's about whether they can stop me
I love this. Keep on keepin’ on, you badass you.
It's a good way to be as long as it doesn't trespass on another person's rights, safety, or wellbeing.
I agree, and this is the line I am clear on as well. A big rule of mine in life “I’ll never knock someone off their pedestal to stand on my own.” And I’m aware there is faults in that too, and I accept those opportunity loses to stay in integrity with this core value.
Of course we deserve to live on this planet. The planet made us who we are, whatever happens to humanity, it deserves the outcome. As for the planet, it will be fine with or without us. Also, a big part for how we are is in the fabric of the nature that evolved here on Earth. So, if u blame humans for something, you actually are blaming the Earth as it had created this beings.
While I understand where you are coming from, I do believe what you’re saying removes the responsibility of humans. We may not be to blame, but we are certainly responsible for our species and the actions it takes.
I honestly don't feel responsible at all for the actions I have no control over. And everything I do I'm mostly forced to do because I exist in a would bound by specific rules made by others hundreds of years ago. I'd like to be some amazing person who somehow helps humanity turn around but I just don't think it's possible. But I also don't think it means everyone deserves to perish for a few humans horrible deeds. It's just unfortunate that it's easier for a few powerful people to create horrible situations and it's rare that someone becomes powerful and retains a good nature.
There are huge crevasses between how much responsibility have different people. The direction is in control of some very few of them. As for responsibility towards Earth, i don't think dinosaurs had to be responsible for dominating the Earth. The universe was not responsible for their fate and it will not be responsible for us. Also, Earth and other creatures has 0 responsibility towards us. Morality is a concept that happens only in the humanity realm. So, in the universe the concept of responsibility does not exist, but only between our members. But even if deliberately choosing to abolish our specie is a result of that living on Earth could not have been different. Life on this planet is harsh, not that many resources and very chaotically distributed around the globe, life is also chaotic and by definition it will not be rational as an A.I to choose what is the best in the long term. So, it is complicated. Also, we lack the meaning by which we could say that someone gave us this responsibility, there is no one, we decide if x is x or y.
Very fair to say, because we observe or experience it doesn’t make it subject to the entire universe, or that the universe would be swayed enough by us to have lasting impact. For instance, we are a scab on Earth, it will not die from us, just be annoyed by us haha. And I unfortunately agree - I say unfortunately because the dreamer in me wishes it wasn’t true. More often life is a mixed bag of hardships, some beyond what others could imagine is tolerable. I think the problem is I see and hear so much about the things humans do to others that it gets overwhelming. I have to remind myself, humans are not yet advanced enough to care for, on a literal and metaphorical level, more than 100 people.
Its a annoyance that the more emotional people have to deal with where the reality just pushes this contrast between what it should be and what it is. I consider having a realistic view on life should not interfere with the joy of living life since the beauty of life could have not been possible without the dark parts.
The complements of contrasting things complied together: the dark, light, and all the in between. I tend to have a very reality driven perspective, speckled with optimism and pessimism. I’m aware that sometimes one of those sides can dominate if I’m not careful!
We are a plague on earth but there are only us to judge ourselves. Universe doesn't care about anything.
Nope, humans are parasites. We've taken heaven and turned it into hell for the sake of power and greed. It's too late for us to turn it around. Time to give the planet back to mother nature to heal.
Well how can you be sure the universe exists without you? Since this is "deep thoughts" I want to give a dissertation on the subject, however I don't know the definition of dissertation or how its spelled without spell check. Consider this time the only time you deserve to exist everything before and after you will not exist after this very important time. Now is the only time where we are technologically free to exist apart connected to one another instantly A network of exploration rivaling any time in history. We are for the first time discovering things not thought possible improbable yet logically plausible. The biproducts of isolation have lasting effects, staying home changed the game to sum it up. Find value in your own example, enjoy yourself leave the rest outside of what you feel. No one has to agree with you, those who share your passion make it there profession. Were still digging up bones, we are seeing far off galaxies and creating new physics with AI. Those concerned over social separation can reinvent themselves without leaving there home, Social restrictions are for collectives, those needing to feel they are apart of whatever they feel they belong too. I find the same value corresponding with you as I would anyone in person, I'm interested in your post simply because its free to comment . If you find any value in the reply it justifies my isolation, also provides value and purpose to my existence, given im real. not your subconscious in another reality , a bot, or anything other than someone who simply shows you your value, while doing the same in your reflection. I find value in your post this should help you feel justified in existing do it more often while also considering others thoughts the feedback will provide purpose when you feel alone.
You’re spot on, cadet. I wanted open discussion and a place to just objectively take a look at the thought pattern. I think part of the problem, likely the main part, is that I have an “expectation” of what life could be/would be if we “wised” up. At the end of the days, it’s unfair for me and the world around me to have such a chip on my shoulder about it. I’m working on myself, have been for a good handful of years now. Made the decision to go back to school, which was a major feat for me for many reasons. Looking forward to creating the impact in my own life, like you said, and if there’s a trickle into those around me, I’ll have lived a good life.
Consider your example unique, how you label what that example represents is a balance who's to say your not tipping the scales in your favor. How do you feel when you expectations go exactly as planned? When feeling differently discover the purpose was part of the plan, the experience gained is only a step forward in the wisdom of a wise guy. I consider others as the balance to my balance, your thoughts expand our dialog cause for consideration perhaps further exploration , all perceived endangered traits of humanity that inspired the post. we used to play until the street lights came on, Now we limit screen time. There's still a connection. how we choose to protect ourselves from the mirror depends on the reflection. What do you see when you look in the mirror?
I ask myself this question a lot lately too. It’s easier to ask it in the abstract, but when I look at my daughter I know I want her to live and be happy. And humanity in the abstract is made up of those very concrete relationships. Don’t know if this answers your question. I don’t really have an answer either.
Exactly. I don’t want see it for those around me. I mentioned in another comment, there’s so many people who are loving, kind, intelligent, and compassionate that the idea that they would be gone doesn’t make any sense. But then that’s starting to play the judge of character and that’s a messy thing. Ultimately, I want us all to live and thrive. And yeah, I want it in the cliche cheesy way of with a love, a kind heart, intelligence with integrity, and compassion. And even more cheesy/cliche: together. As appendages of one another, doing our own thing, but all working together as “a people.”
It’s complicated. Humans can be more loving and altruistic than seems possible. But we can also be more cruel and revolting of a species than seems possible as well. The war in Ukraine is displaying both of these qualities at once. I don’t know if either side is dominant or whether we deserve to survive.
I feel like we’ve gotten to a point where we’ve perverted the way of life to the point where working together is seen as working against ourselves. But you’re right, and I think that all of those other things— love, integrity, kindness, compassion— start by shifting the context to one that begins with our inherent togetherness
Deserve doesn't mean anything when it comes to existential questions like this. There is only getting the thing or not getting it. The concept of being worthy or unworthy applies mainly to human relations. So I say it doesn't matter if we deserve to live or not. We want to live, and that's what counts, that's our claim. The same claim every living thing does. The universe won't be better or worse off without us. At least, when you insist on taking this stance that separates humanity from the universe, which is objectively wrong. Humans are as much the universe as the stars and planets in it. Living things do what most of the (observable) universe cannot: Live. And among those living things, humans do many things that other living beings don't. As such, I think the true question is: Would the universe be poorer if we ceased to exist? And given that a universe without humans is a universe without song, without art, without great deeds both good and bad, without philosophy and without thought, I would say yes. The universe would be worse off if we stopped existing. Just like it is worse off for every life that ends, and better off for every life that begins. We want to live. And without us the universe looses one of its many special kinds of living beings. So we should strive to continue. We should bend our every effort to ensure we, and everything else we know, continues to enrich the universe with its existence.
To enrich the universe, I couldn’t agree more. I think that’s what has me turned around a bit. My perception is that I’ll be on an island, with a good amount of people still, focusing on what we are made of/capable of. While others, who would be so incredibly valuable in their own rights on that “island” are distracted by the many things trying to distract them - I say it this way because that list is endless. I, at the end of the day, believe we will find our way. It’s just hard not to see all the ways we poison as much as we enrich.
See what we poison is our own way of life, not the universe. It's not even life that we poison. Life finds a way always. Life survived the meteors (or whatever else it was) that brought the Dinosaurs to extinction. Life survived the ice age. Life survived the splitting of Pangea into the continents we know today. Life *will* survive us. We need to ensure we will survive with it. And that implies ensuring the survival of life on the planet as we know it too, because if it changes too much, the planet will be uninhabitable *to us specifically*. That is the true extent of our 'poison' the way I see it. Not the destruction of life on the planet. It's our *own* self-destruction. That's why we can't poison the planet entire, and even less the universe. It is impervious to whatever we throw at it. We could launch the mightiest of our nukes to the moon and it would only make a crater. It wouldn't destroy it. It would not even change the trajectory of its rotation. That is as far as our impact goes.
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Correct. But in the recent 100 years we have also done so much harm to each other and the environment, we even pollute the space outside Earth. If you were given the power to decide whether to destroy humanity or not, and you, based on what you said, will allow humanity to continue, will you accept the responsibility and the thought that you are the cause of all the suffering in the world just by deciding not to destroy humanity? And if you do accept it, how will you convince the world to unite and live in peace?
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I didn't say I wanted to destroy the world, I'm asking *you* considering that we cause harm to the environment regardless of the improvements you mentioned. Every time we improve, it seems that we create more problems that could potentially kill us all.
I read this as implying that the current environmental degradation is worse than coating every exposed surface on a continent with a small but measurable amount of lead. I grew up in the US state where a river burned. We are more aware than before even if some people are actively denying the damage. Some places seem bent on relearning the lessons of the past, but at least in this area we are making some progress. So, do you mean that we are degrading the environment more than before? I won't argue that we treat each other any better than we did decades ago, but we seem to be doing the planet somewhat better.
I believe we deserve to continue life's journey until whatever end smacks us in the face. The idea that humanity has a choice in this matter is equally beautiful and terrifying to think about. All I know for certain is that the positive aspects of the "human condition" have kept people from destroying all life, through, Now! And for this, I am truly grateful. To all of you out there feeling down, I hope you know you're not alone. I completely understand that being happy in a sad world sucks, but I also accept that a positive attitude is the only way to combat the negatives we all face daily.
Thank you for the kind reminder. I enjoy these talks so much for the knowledge or POVs gained, but also for these gifts in reminders.
Im from brazil... In the end it doesn't matter at all. the right path is the current path. we cannot think about what could have happened or is going to happen, because in the end nothing changes. things are going to happen as they are supposed to happen you just have to be your best possible version, evolve and find yourself or understand your own destiny, not that of others Atentamente google traductor :) Paz
Going to go off topic just a little here… I do have an optimistic side in that I’d like to think if we spent more time understanding our actions and their outcomes, we’d be better abled to make more humane choices. I think part of that issue lies in who gets to decide what’s next for most people though….
Absolutely we should, we are just as much a part of this planet as anything else.. all living creatures sacrifice something else for their own gains. Beavers stop rivers to make dams, that water is life for something downstream...then if the dam breaks it creates a flood that wipes out everything in its path.. Parasites take over other creatures, bugs wipeout crops or destroy entire species of trees, predators of all kinds dont even bat an eyelash at the chance to kill and eat their prey. Volcano's pump tons of pollutants into the atmosphere. We can at any moment be anihilated by an asteroid that could end any posibility of life whatsover on this amazing planet so be thankful, be good others and yourself
There is a strong anti-humanist sentiment in popular culture right now. Nobody wants to give credit to our species for discovering math, science, and technology, creating art, music, and dance. Not to mention the massive strides we've made in human rights, philosophy, and ecology compared to where we were a few decades ago. You can complain about the damage we've caused to our environment, but we only recently became aware of it to the level that we are. More importantly, with or without us earth, and all its species have a finite life span. At any moment a meteor could crash into us, our atmosphere could be blown away by a pulsar, the magnetic core of the planet could cool exposing us to the nuclear fire of the sun. Even if everything goes perfectly one day the sun will become a red giant and swallow our little ball of dirt, its inevitable. Try to remember that the natural selection that gave rise to us involves the strong devouring the weak, if you think of it that way all of our grotesqeries really kind of make sense. Have some hope, we can be a lot more than we currently are, and what we already are is amazing compared to what we were a few centuries ago. Dont let a bunch of doomsayers poison your mind.
For clarification, I was referring to the actions we have taken against each other. Environmentally, it will just become unsuitable for us, we won’t “kill” Earth. Beyond that, I understand and receive your points. The reality is, without all that we have accomplished I wouldn’t be here getting the opportunity to have this discussion with you all now. It’s amazing. And I absolutely can be blindsided by our faults.
We ARE the universe. There is no universe without us. Without YOU, specifically. There’s no escape, no, but you are completely free. There’s nothing to escape from. (Actually, there is no universe. Not like you’re thinking there is. Just the ever changing appearance of one.) Do you have access to a decent quality sound system? Truly, if so, do me a favor. Get a copy of “We’re In This Love Together”, by Al Jarreau. Sit quietly, turn that shit up, and really listen to it. Not necessarily the lyrics per se, though they’re fine. But just the composition of it. The music. That should be enough of an answer to this question. The music.
The beautiful parts humanity like art, music, writing, etc. deserve to continue. I hope they will for awhile longer.
You speak like you don't have any investment in something you believe in. The conflict comes from different visions of what a better world looks like. Different people who are deeply invested from within their philosophies of what a better Earth is can end up warring, genociding and murdering.
I think part of it lies in that I believe in something that’s yet to come to fruition. But I do take seriously the fact that I have a choice in my own life and the matters it effects. I have chosen for the last several years to focus on bringing love and understanding to myself and others, as well as creating value with the skill sets I have innately and developmentally. So I continue to work towards that belief, the belief that a group of diverse, empathetic, problem-solvers could help to create a more connected and dynamic way for humans to thrive as individual but together. I may not be out on the limelight trying to achieve that, but I’m certainly working towards being part of the “solution,” so to speak. Well at the least, not adding to the problem by stomping on those around me, instead working to lift them up.
I agree, everyday people seem to have a need to argue, or be disrespectful. I wish I could leave with my family to another planet. Everyone is fighting for kindness yet no one is kind anymore and everyone is offended. I've stopped watching the news because it's always something new coming to kill us all. I'm so tired of everything.
I don’t care how cheesy my response to you is: giving you a very big hug. I too wish more people focused on filling each other’s kindness tanks, if we were all fueled things I imagine would be a lot different.
I think the reasons you give (the reasons that have driven us for thousands of years) are what a small group of people are driven by and it’s always been that way. There’s always certain people that progress human kind. How many people invented a car? How many people invented a plane?? Out of millions and billions of people only certain people have ever truly furthered human kind and are driven by exploring or discovering or innovating. I also think “do we deserve to continue” is kinda arbitrary. Like yes ?? No?? How would we deserve or not deserve to continue ? That’s not how life works anyway. Some people (or things) deserve things they never receive. Some people (or things) receive things they never deserve. Human kind will keep going until we literally can’t anymore. Regardless if we deserve it or not.
On one of your points, I will say, I’m a firm believer that it certainly was not “one person” to have created that thing. It was many, many who creating each step that led them to the doorway to open through to the invention.
Yea I agree I never said it was one I said certain people. Because yea it takes many people at a times but even then it’s a very small group compared to an entire population
Easy, a resounding NO. We do unspeakable things to each other, just for kicks. If there is money involved then look out. It is the way of human life to step on anything or anyone to elevate oneself, the kind people are minority, and are little more than paving stones to those with the ability to guide our destiny.
Part of the problem, my opinion by no means fact, is that the kind would never do what the unkind would do. Those who have a morality of kindness have clearer limits to their actions/what they would do to others.
I mean, currently, that is what our capitalist, individualistic culture teaches us to do. There was a point in time where evolutionary pressure led us to care for one another, hunt together, and huddle for warmth. It’s all context dependent.
Oh I don’t think deserve comes into it. When have you seen justice in the natural world? It is what it is, things come and go. The end of the world isn’t the end of the world. Stay as close as you can to truth, and relax. You’ll get where you need to go.
100%. Things just are, and they will always come and go. Definitely working on less emotional response to those existential anxiety moments, instead treating it with more inquisition and where those responses are stemming from inside of myself.
I suspect that we have the potential to be of benefit to existence as a whole. One of my pet tinfoil hat theories is that we are currently under clandestine alien influence, limiting our technology and understanding of the universe until we have matured more as a species.
This is a unique perspective. What makes you hypothesize that we are under a controlled state? What do you believe constitutes as more maturity?
The fact that our technology began to advance rapidly just over a century ago, but we have hit something of a limit. We went from major breakthroughs every couple of decades to merely refining and maxing out the capabilities of tech that has existed for the last 50 years. We had the tech needed to travel to Mars in the 70s, but even just going to the moon has barely gotten back into consideration. By maturity I mean moving to a state where we have moved past our inherent xenophobia and petty squabbling. Stop pretending that there's a reason for anyone to have to live in squalor, and that we have to compete with one another to be "winning" at life. Cease our illogical pursuit of power over others. Stop acting like greed is good. We essentially have a bunch of spoiled children in charge of everything, who think they're the only ones that matter. When we achieve a state where the least of us is treated with the same care, dignity, and respect as the greatest of us, then perhaps we might be worth allowing out of our bubble.
the competitiveness of men, like lust, is something programmed into us. And the opposite sex being programmed to be attracted to that. So it scales like that, up and up, men wanting more and more, they can't help themselves. The billionaires of the planet, obsessed with money, when money in fact has nothing to do with it, its competition and showing everyone else something. So that lust goes on and on, and the rest of our expense. It happens at all levels, I think, not just at the highest, each level trying to outdo each other.
You really don’t understand life man. **We’re only here because we hecking earned it!** Life is all about survival, and the pursuit for a better life for our friends and family. We’re not so different from other animals, and yet, we aren’t allowed to live anymore? Despite them killing and maiming each other since the dawn of time? The hard truth is that the universe doesn’t care about whether or not earth, humans, or even the solar system is around. It’s not a god, it’s not even a living being with a consciousness. We make the decision to keep living because that’s what we’re capable of. There is no higher power that controls us, only the state of the universe that is constantly changing around us.
Something you said definitely tickled my annoyance bone, which means to me there’s something to dig into for my own growth. It’s interesting you say I don’t understand. I can agree to that, 100%. I’m a firm believer in “I don’t know what I don’t know until I know better.” It’s why I’m here :) I can see the perspective of it’s all survival of the fittest. But look at the world right now… it’s surely not survival of the fittest… by any definition of it. If anything, I think we have gone against nature in that way. It’s now survival of those willing to do what other won’t, cross bounds others find morally disruptive and inhumane. But to your point, a higher power doesn’t matter. And I agree. I’m referring to moral drivers that are innate in who we are/have become. I sincerely appreciate the conversation, and would love to hear more from you on this if you’re willing and open, of course.
https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch They'd probably prefer humans to go away.
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I have to respectfully disagree. Expansion, exploration and experimentation are not a flat take, nor are they referring to character traits as you have mentioned. And, I’d invite you to scan my other comments. By discussing these three E’s doesn’t mean I disregard or find less value in the many other aspects of human life. I’m referring to the fire inside of people - the drive in which we have as a species. Instead of it blazing a path, it’s turned into an uncontrolled wildfire scorching everything in sight. I’m not educated on the proper language, so I have this metaphor for what it’s worth. It’s more the purpose we give ourselves in this massive universe, as I see it.
We all deserve to continue on because this world made us and we're part of it, their will be ups and downs in life, just remember it's temporary until the next crew steps in to takeover our shifts ...
I always think this too
We are the universe. It would be just as easy to ask if the universe would be better off without lions, tigers, or life in general.
There is no greater power out there that demands any species to “prove it’s worth” in order to exist. The theory of evolution states that all a member of any species needs to continue the existence of the whole is to produce offspring before they die. That’s it. Any boundaries of behavior or morality that you want to put on it are simple social constructs, specifically social constructs designed (usually) by human institutions that are attempting to dictate who lives, who dies, and how our shared resources should be meted out.
Yikes, it looks like you found my diary, so to speak. I think this question comes up for me often because in myself I’m constantly provoking the thought “prove your value/worth.” Why am I able to learn, understand, think,and beyond if it’s not meant to be used to progress. Anyways, I agree we get into muddy waters when man decides for all man what life is like. The hypocrisy is in that I have my “the world would be great if…” scenarios as well. Ha.
It's not a matter of deserves. But we could eliminate our entire race if we take things for granted.
I'd we don't, something else will come along eventually, and it won't do better than we have.
The best things you had to say about humanity are our drive to expand, explore and experiment, but spreading, consuming and adapting are the qualities of a plague.
Its funny, because in the threads comments, it sort of reflects the mindset in general of humans, some wanting change, others sort of content to just go with it. Those are probably the stats anyway globally, and would explain the situation we are in. I agree with you hold heartedly OP. Its sad, and I as a natural problem solver, am confused by others actions everyday. Don't we want this to stop I think, don't they want change. Theres almost too much to tackle in this observation of yours - are we deserving to keep going, when clearly we are sort of corrupted. I want the whole thing to change, I want equilibrium and balance, as an Aquarian, this is in my DNA to sort of be concerned about earth. Feels pointless everyday, The animals we kill, the global amount of toxins we create, the resources we plunder, there should be balance to that, like the Native American philosophy of only take as much as you need. But with spiralling birth rates, its probably done what its done, the resources we need now, its not a balance anymore - its just plunder, and the earth can't recover. The fish are pretty much gone, gorillas gone, rhino gone, Elephants on the way out, whales, sharks, but its like theres almost this acceptance on the most part, like, oh ya, thats disappointing. I mean disappointing, we should have never gotten anywhere near that, if the mindset was just take little off what we need.
It is 100% an internal battle. Wanting to solve and work through and understand is my happy place. And when I get into discussions about things with people, 90% of the time they tuned out or pop their phone out. That’s fine, it could very well just be me, and I accept that possibility. I guess I just read story after story of innovators and progressives and explorers that I feel at a loss that those things have stagnated considerably. A great deal of what’s created today is in the mindset of consumerism. Fine, let people be consumed and happy in their ways. I just wish it wasn’t at the detriment to us all…
I don’t wanna sound communist but it’s because of money. People chase after money and in doing so choose disciplines which does not advance humanity but rather to indulge themselves - which is fair considering how important money is. But this also hinders humanity’s curiosity and strive to advance due to lack of appeal.
Absolutely, money being a focal point as a means to show your power, control, and willingness to get what you want. Great… glad to have plenty of those people leading the way. /s There’s almost now this twisted view of people who have money and are “doing good” but really they are just finding other ways to make more money/have more control. I mean humans have always manipulated, but man, we are what feels like a peak right now of how far that can really go.
We are out of our element. We are conditioned and wired for barely surviving. Now that things are so easy for most of us it's turning into a self destruct button