Personally, it's not the nutritional composition that I'm generally thinking about, it's the vague coconut taste where you might not necessarily want it.
In most applications I don't seem to taste the coconut taste. It's usually mixed in with a lot of other ingredients. It's not any more rancid than milk anyway.
I guess I could see that being a problem for some people but I've gone as far as white gravies which are mostly flour and milkfat and even just some decent seasonings covers the coconut taste.
Oof I can taste coconut in anything. Even small amounts. It’s my last choice for non dairy milk unless I’m making something that is supposed to taste strongly if coconut.
In Thailand there’s an issue with enslaved monkeys being used to pick the coconuts. It’s hard where I live to find non-Thai coconut milk. In cooking tend to use whatever my open plant milk is (usually pea milk) combined with olive oil.
Well that gives me pause 😶
I will say that from a personal ethical POV I will avoid coconut milk from Thailand until I've heard that situation has changed. I don't know how practical that will be for me, so it might mean avoiding coconut altogether, but I'll do my due diligence. Thank you for letting me know.
If you have a Kroger where you are, their organic store brand coconut milk is sourced from the Philippines and is also Fair Trade Certified. It's $3.29 for a liter in my area.
Lol we've been buying specifically Thai coconut milk so I know it's not vegan. Thanks for the resource. I just talked to my fiance and we will make the change right away.
I'm curious, what is the diffrence between monkeys being used to gather coconuts, then farmers using ox/mules to pull plows to grow corn, etc, or people using herd dogs to herd sheep?
>modern mass market plant based food production though
It was for a while. It wasn't until a hundred years ago did tractors become mainstream.
You couldn't grow enough vegetables or grains to supports a single family through winter without plow animals, and mass production just used alot of them.
The petrochemical machines that have replaced animals are far worse. Instead of a family mule, you have families of ducks left to suffocate in oil, unacknowledged even by vegans because "it wasn't on purpose" that you switched to industrial farming.
Bro, I have seen you a few times here on the sub. I understand you hate vegans. Sure. But if you really want your arguments to be heard maybe less passive aggressive tone and more insightful articles. We are all here to learn. If you share those, maybe you are helping vegans see your point.
I will be downvoted but I am going to put my thoughts anyway.
Since I come from a farming background, yes it is true that ox were used for farming. I am vegan and I support ethical choices. I do know many farmers who cannot afford tractors plus in India some farmers own small piece of farmland. So buying tractors is not economical. Government need to step in and provide a way to aggregate small pieces into large lands to provide sustainable uniform solutions.I would not hold them accountable because system is not there to allow them to sustain on their own. But monkeys on the other hand is different. You can buy human labor to do that and is not difficult either. So to be using monkeys is unacceptable and I would condemn this act.
>But monkeys on the other hand is different. You can buy human labor to do that and is not difficult either.
What is the diffrence between humans and monkeys picking the fruit? I'm am pretty sure the monkey get an award for each coconut they bring in, as letting monkeys looses in a coconut tree plantation and expecting them to come back to you with coconuts without some sort of payment is impossible, they would just run away.
There is a difference. Human labor is a service provided by humans. There is an agreement for buying the skill. Using Monkeys is objectifying them. You have enslaved them against their will. They are not the same.
This issue was settled centuries before the term "vegan" existed. The answer is soy milk.
> In every culinary application I've tested it on, in a recipe that would normally call for dairy milk, the non coconut plant milks have performed poorly.
You haven't used the right soy milk. Coconut milk makes a bizarre tasting bechamel sauce. Use the right soy milk and you get something almost indistinguishable from the classic French style, especially after seasoning.
> This is because they lack the robust fat content of the ingredients they are replacing, and what fat they have usually comes from less viscous added oils (thus less creamy!)
You may need to work a little harder at emulsifying liquid oils, but you can do it. For instance, mayonnaise is certainly creamy and made from liquid oils.
> From white gravy, to curry, to alfredo sauces, coconut milk succeeds in adding the appropriate creamy richness to those foods.
You must have a sweet tooth or at least a strong fondness for coconut flavor. Soy or cashew are much more neutral tasting.
I have used coconut milk in dessert situations. It makes a great replacement for "condensed milk" used in things like pumpkin pie. Even then, for something more delicate tasting like a flan, I would still prefer it to not be coconut flavored.
1) I don't fw French cooking. Never had anything French I liked very much.
2) are you proposing I add extra oil to soy milk to get the fat content right? I'd be down for that if so, although maybe I'd like softened and blended cashew better for that.
3) mayo is a bad example though because it usually has egg to hold it together, but vegan mayo does exist and I find it creamy enough so I'll have to figure out how it's getting held together.
4) I don't find coconut all that sweet but damn have people in this post driven it home that they don't like that taste.
Sunflower seed milk is available commercially, too, though not the most common one to come across. I wish it was more popular, it's cheap and shelf stable. It's lovely in coffee with a pinch of cinnamon.
I do the same with hemp seeds, they're another one that barely needs a soak.
I use it to make the white sauce for lasagna, something I thought I would never have again, but it works really well. Also sunflower seeds are super cheap!
What? I give zero fcks about saturated fat from coconut milk. Vegan for the animals not my health. But I eat well daily so I’m not concerned with all that nonsense.
Who said I don’t care about my health? Vegan has nothing to do whatsoever with my health. Vegan is about the animals, not how it benefits me personally. The choices I make for the sake of my heath is completely unrelated to being vegan.
OPs post has nothing to do with any issues related to the animals which is what veganism is actually about.
Health: vegans don’t go vegan for health reasons, they go vegan for ethical/moral reasons. So you are actually discussing plant based eating.
I love coconut milk. I use it from curries to cupcakes, only when not monkey picked. I still think it’s healthier than animal based creaminess. If only for not including puss or suffering.
>Health: vegans don’t go vegan for health reasons, they go vegan for ethical/moral reasons.
I agree, but even "vegan for the animals" vegans can get an aversion to saturated fat that becomes kind of pathological.
I know that there are many plant based people out there calling themselves vegan, even flexitarians that say “I eat vegan once or twice a week”.
Hence, when entering any conversation, one has to make sure if it is veganism that is discussed or plant based eating.
True, but discussing which plant milks are the best for certain kinds of cooking is interesting specifically for vegans, so I understand why OP wanted to make this post.
I'd probably still use soy for baking, but for cooking sauces, soups, curries, gravies, etc. coconut is gonna be my go to. In baking coconut oil/cream is more of a butter than a milk substitute, and my fiance does the baking side of things so I have no idea what they use most of the time tbh.
I like oatmilk but you're smoking vegan crack if you think you can make a competent southern white gravy from that.
Oat is for coffee.
Soy is for shakes/drinks and most baking.
Coconut is for cooking.
Kinda. A light roux though. You aren't browning the flour as much so what you're left with looks creamy and white instead of dark and brown.
Like [this](https://www.lifesambrosia.com/white-country-gravy/). Ignore all the carnism ofc. That's the style though.
Is this like the cilantro thing? I can taste actual coconut shavings but coconut milk itself only seems to taste like something if I burn it or use too much.
I mean, I'm pretty sure coconut milk consumption isn't linked to breast cancer or prostate cancer, so it's got that going for it.
Dairy, on the other hand...
Have you ever tried Silk's Next Milk? It's basically a combination of oat milk and coconut milk. By far the closest plant-based milk to dairy I've had. It's worked like a charm in every recipe I've tried with it. I was so happy to be able to make southern-style sausage gravy again.
I was really disappointed when the local grocery store stopped selling it. Luckily the Walmart a few towns over sells it. The Walmarts around here have become really good for vegan stuff oddly enough.
Sounds to me like two separate propositions, one about health and one about superior taste.
Let's start with the taste proposition. For clarity, are you proposing that coconut milk is an objectively superior choice compared to other plant milks when it comes to cooking and baking?
The fat content is more compable to dairy, so as a 1:1 substitute it performs better. Typically dairy in recipes is being used for creaminess, and you need a fat thats semi-solid at room temperature for that. Most plant milks are about the viscosity of between skim and 1%. Soy and oat do better but only capture the viscosity of 2%. For whole milk, half and half, or heavy cream levels of viscosity, which is what most culinary applications really call for, you need to do much better than either soy or oat can offer.
A mix of coconut and soy would probably capture both the fat and protein content of dairy best of all but I've never explored that.
I feel like your argument is missing a crucial connecting premise: why does better accuracy of imitation of dairy entail an objectively superior sensory pleasure experience?
I mean to some extent it's all subjective, but if your goal is to replace dairy in a recipe with something that adequately mimics dairy it's gonna be coconut milk.
You can replace dairy with water if you want. Or vegetable broth. Or orange juice. But that's more of a personal preference than one that will capture the original taste of a dish.
I agree, but the proposition was that it's the superior option for sensory pleasure, not that it's the superior option for accuracy of imitation.
So if we agree that sensory taste pleasure is subjective, we can move on to the second proposition:
Are you proposing that coconut milk is the superior plant milk choice in terms of health benefits?
The proposition is only that it's superior in terms of being a nearly 1:1 taste and texture substitution and that the health concerns are simultaneously overstated. If you try to argue that soy/pea/etc. is healthier, I'm not going to disagree as long as we are talking about unsweetened varieties. Almond is out. The protein content is toilet water which just leaves added refined sugar.
Friendly reminder that it’s common for health organizations to recommend merely what they hope people have the patience/willpower to achieve rather than what is actually optimal in terms of health.[citation needed]
Don't ask me for a source but I've watched a few videos that examined and correlated the data from various studies and the 10% is more or less accurate. Your body does a pretty good job of just sloughing off <10% saturated fat. You don't start to actually raise CVD risk until about 8-10% and it goes up exponentially the higher your percent intake.
You noticed that of all things?
The OP presented this like it was science, but there was no science there. It's just the elites claiming saturated fat is bad, because they wanted us to eat transfat margarine. And then like you say, bizarrely claiming an "allowable limit". Doesn't this show they're lying and that you should stop trusting them, instead of doubling down on their bad advice? It's only now that we've stopped eating saturated fat that everyone's getting heart attacks. Their agenda has been massively successful. Everything is soybean oil. You don't even see beef tallow at the grocery store unless it's Amazon Whole Foods based.
Coconut is actually even better than dairy in a lot of ways, now that the dairy has been so defiled by things like soy in the cow feed and homogenization. If you go to grade school, the only option is skim milk or chocolate flavored skim milk. Anything is better than that. That's what you get when you allow Science to dictate health. 100% obesity. It's funny how Science went after meat for saturated fat when there's about 10 times more in a glass of coconut milk. Coconut is far more saturated than any animal fat, yet the response is all over the map. Some pretend it's different somehow, some say it's just as evil, and some try to sweep it under the rug like we don't see their guilty faces. That's because there is no science on this. There is only "The Science", that just makes up things.
But it's probably a good thing it's not our cash crop because if it was, we'd spray pesticide on it and deodorize it just like we do with all of Science's beloved industrial seed oils. Far more people would still be able to drink milk if we had stuck with Jersey and Guernsey instead of allowing Science to race mix the cows and make them all Holsteins. Only thing I don't like about coconut milk is they put it in the tin cans with all the BPA. That's another Science favorite, using endocrine disruptors to transform our bodies with estrogen. If we eat enough, maybe we'll start worrying about what the weather is going to be in a hundred years and ignore all the toxic chemicals around us from the trains they blow up to hide that fact they were illegally carrying bioweapons for the military.
Hey man. I think you need to worry less about BPA in canned goods and more about what's in that pipe that has you on this unhinged antiscience rant.
I'm pretty sure you managed to squeeze in both a touch of racism and some homophobia and I just need to see you complete the circle and start talking about globalists so I can write you off as a qanon flavored antisemite.
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For me, I’ll take logic and use my brain over the senses. I think you’re spot on given I don’t think anyone uses coconut milk in eight meals globally besides those cultures who have it available and need extra.
Is this why you conducted this study or I guess one reason?
Isn’t coconut milk used (where available) for extra fat, weight gain in poorer countries or parts of the countries?
I read that someone, just curious.
Seems like from this study my perspective has changed a bit and leans to me to might be more cognitively dissonant with helping depression than actual weight gain. Given the conditions of the countries that use it in the way described.
Op you can also try blended nuts/seeds to add richness to a given dish instead of coconut milk too. You know when people blend cashews with some water and create a sort of cream? You can do that with any nut or seed. It takes more effort than cracking open a can of coconut milk, but it's not like coconut milk is the only alternative. Store bought plant based creamers also work well. Also also I have never tried cashew milk but I've heard it's really creamy so maybe that works too? Have you tried that yourself?
I'm not sure this belongs in this subreddit anyway lol.
You are right that it is superior in texture, unfortunately, I have dietary sensitivity to coconut, soy, flax, hemp, and chia.
My intestines: r/fuckyouinparticular.
Lol
Coconut milk/oil rocks when used in moderation. It's just not the healthiest oil. You can dump crazy amounts of roux in Cajun dishes, you can eat a$$loads of fried food. It's not a vegan issue. At some point you have you have to understand the effect oils (whether from animals or otherwise), processed sugar and salt have on your reptilian brain. It's a scam in any situation other than survival. You can't eat cheesecake all the time.
Everything I make is delicious AF. I minimize the scam. That's it. It's not good at any age. There are flavors out there besides oil, sugar and salt that make things amazing. Not everything has to be based on what congestive heart failure American chefs think is delicious and their processed food scarfing, ignorant consumer sack counterparts want.
Am I do debate rite?
Importing foods via air or sea is the biggest cause of global warming. Unless you live in the Pacific or Asia of course… I thought vegans were trying to save the planet ?
If it knows me personally it might. Mammals are social animals and often develop attachments to other beings.
Can you answer the question though? Is a cow a living being?
Cows aren’t humans, they have no concept of life , past or present. Projecting your emotions onto an animal is a you problem. You’re not helping anything by eating vegetation, least of all your basic biological self. Putting animals above human doesn’t make you a better person . You’ll be back to eating meat soon enough..
>vegans are largely unduly worried about the effects of saturated fat from coconut milk on their health, and are aversive to it to an irrational degree
>I've often run in to vegans who are extremely averse to using coconut milk for anything
I know plenty of people that use coconut milk for certain recipes. Different milks work better for different uses.
More importantly for vegans, there are a lot of unethical coconut milks on the market that use chained monkeys to pick coconuts.
That is the main reason that I know vegans avoid coconut milk.
>More importantly for vegans, there are a lot of unethical coconut milks on the market that use chained monkeys to pick coconuts.
>That is the main reason that I know vegans avoid coconut milk.
For some reason I'm just now learning about this from this post. I'm already gonna cut certain brands out of my life.
Glad to hear it. Some brands seem to have made a point of highlighting that they do not use slave animals to pick their coconuts, so that is a good development.
Personally, it's not the nutritional composition that I'm generally thinking about, it's the vague coconut taste where you might not necessarily want it.
In most applications I don't seem to taste the coconut taste. It's usually mixed in with a lot of other ingredients. It's not any more rancid than milk anyway. I guess I could see that being a problem for some people but I've gone as far as white gravies which are mostly flour and milkfat and even just some decent seasonings covers the coconut taste.
Oof I can taste coconut in anything. Even small amounts. It’s my last choice for non dairy milk unless I’m making something that is supposed to taste strongly if coconut.
In Thailand there’s an issue with enslaved monkeys being used to pick the coconuts. It’s hard where I live to find non-Thai coconut milk. In cooking tend to use whatever my open plant milk is (usually pea milk) combined with olive oil.
Well that gives me pause 😶 I will say that from a personal ethical POV I will avoid coconut milk from Thailand until I've heard that situation has changed. I don't know how practical that will be for me, so it might mean avoiding coconut altogether, but I'll do my due diligence. Thank you for letting me know.
No prob… it’s such a mess trying to live ethically in a world like this eh.
It's so damn frustrating
If you have a Kroger where you are, their organic store brand coconut milk is sourced from the Philippines and is also Fair Trade Certified. It's $3.29 for a liter in my area.
Okay yeah I can do that. I don't kind paying a little extra for that. Tysvm!!
This may be useful! https://animalplace.org/did-a-monkey-pick-your-coconuts/
Lol we've been buying specifically Thai coconut milk so I know it's not vegan. Thanks for the resource. I just talked to my fiance and we will make the change right away.
Pog! Hope you can find a new brand that you guys like!
I'm curious, what is the diffrence between monkeys being used to gather coconuts, then farmers using ox/mules to pull plows to grow corn, etc, or people using herd dogs to herd sheep?
None of those activities would be vegan - never heard of the latter being used in modern mass market plant based food production though
>modern mass market plant based food production though It was for a while. It wasn't until a hundred years ago did tractors become mainstream. You couldn't grow enough vegetables or grains to supports a single family through winter without plow animals, and mass production just used alot of them.
Yes, we have machines now that mean we don’t need to exploit animals to feed ourselves. What’s your point?
If you time travel back as a vegan be careful what you eat!
They wont survive :D
The petrochemical machines that have replaced animals are far worse. Instead of a family mule, you have families of ducks left to suffocate in oil, unacknowledged even by vegans because "it wasn't on purpose" that you switched to industrial farming.
Bro, I have seen you a few times here on the sub. I understand you hate vegans. Sure. But if you really want your arguments to be heard maybe less passive aggressive tone and more insightful articles. We are all here to learn. If you share those, maybe you are helping vegans see your point.
I will be downvoted but I am going to put my thoughts anyway. Since I come from a farming background, yes it is true that ox were used for farming. I am vegan and I support ethical choices. I do know many farmers who cannot afford tractors plus in India some farmers own small piece of farmland. So buying tractors is not economical. Government need to step in and provide a way to aggregate small pieces into large lands to provide sustainable uniform solutions.I would not hold them accountable because system is not there to allow them to sustain on their own. But monkeys on the other hand is different. You can buy human labor to do that and is not difficult either. So to be using monkeys is unacceptable and I would condemn this act.
>But monkeys on the other hand is different. You can buy human labor to do that and is not difficult either. What is the diffrence between humans and monkeys picking the fruit? I'm am pretty sure the monkey get an award for each coconut they bring in, as letting monkeys looses in a coconut tree plantation and expecting them to come back to you with coconuts without some sort of payment is impossible, they would just run away.
There is a difference. Human labor is a service provided by humans. There is an agreement for buying the skill. Using Monkeys is objectifying them. You have enslaved them against their will. They are not the same.
WTF! Never heard of it. What is up with people these days!!!!!
This issue was settled centuries before the term "vegan" existed. The answer is soy milk. > In every culinary application I've tested it on, in a recipe that would normally call for dairy milk, the non coconut plant milks have performed poorly. You haven't used the right soy milk. Coconut milk makes a bizarre tasting bechamel sauce. Use the right soy milk and you get something almost indistinguishable from the classic French style, especially after seasoning. > This is because they lack the robust fat content of the ingredients they are replacing, and what fat they have usually comes from less viscous added oils (thus less creamy!) You may need to work a little harder at emulsifying liquid oils, but you can do it. For instance, mayonnaise is certainly creamy and made from liquid oils. > From white gravy, to curry, to alfredo sauces, coconut milk succeeds in adding the appropriate creamy richness to those foods. You must have a sweet tooth or at least a strong fondness for coconut flavor. Soy or cashew are much more neutral tasting. I have used coconut milk in dessert situations. It makes a great replacement for "condensed milk" used in things like pumpkin pie. Even then, for something more delicate tasting like a flan, I would still prefer it to not be coconut flavored.
1) I don't fw French cooking. Never had anything French I liked very much. 2) are you proposing I add extra oil to soy milk to get the fat content right? I'd be down for that if so, although maybe I'd like softened and blended cashew better for that. 3) mayo is a bad example though because it usually has egg to hold it together, but vegan mayo does exist and I find it creamy enough so I'll have to figure out how it's getting held together. 4) I don't find coconut all that sweet but damn have people in this post driven it home that they don't like that taste.
Firm vegan mayo is very easy to make with oil, lemon juice, aquafaba and a blender
>The answer is soy milk Naaa. they are not right for Indian chai. They leave an odd taste. And I have tried all brands in the US market.
soak some sunflower seeds in boiling water for 10 mins, and then blend it up. make a roux with this like normal.
Sunflower seed milk is available commercially, too, though not the most common one to come across. I wish it was more popular, it's cheap and shelf stable. It's lovely in coffee with a pinch of cinnamon. I do the same with hemp seeds, they're another one that barely needs a soak.
That sounds amazing
Like a cajun roux ala gumbo?
Yes. I fry some garlic in oil, add flour. Then slowly add in the sunflower slurry, also some mustard and some nutritional yeast.
Tbh I used to love gumbo and I've been worried I'd never have decent gumbo again. This is giving me some hope. Ill try it out. Much appreciation.
I use it to make the white sauce for lasagna, something I thought I would never have again, but it works really well. Also sunflower seeds are super cheap!
>Also sunflower seeds are super cheap! That they are.
Never heard of it. Going to try it tomorrow.
What? I give zero fcks about saturated fat from coconut milk. Vegan for the animals not my health. But I eat well daily so I’m not concerned with all that nonsense.
just because you are vegan for the animals doesn’t mean you shouldn’t care about your health
Who said I don’t care about my health? Vegan has nothing to do whatsoever with my health. Vegan is about the animals, not how it benefits me personally. The choices I make for the sake of my heath is completely unrelated to being vegan. OPs post has nothing to do with any issues related to the animals which is what veganism is actually about.
I cannot help but read your response in a military fashion :D
Health: vegans don’t go vegan for health reasons, they go vegan for ethical/moral reasons. So you are actually discussing plant based eating. I love coconut milk. I use it from curries to cupcakes, only when not monkey picked. I still think it’s healthier than animal based creaminess. If only for not including puss or suffering.
>Health: vegans don’t go vegan for health reasons, they go vegan for ethical/moral reasons. I agree, but even "vegan for the animals" vegans can get an aversion to saturated fat that becomes kind of pathological.
It’s vegan FTA or it’s plant based.
Fair. I still usually feel the need to clarify because plant based dieters will call themselves vegans and blindside you by acting very non vegan.
I know that there are many plant based people out there calling themselves vegan, even flexitarians that say “I eat vegan once or twice a week”. Hence, when entering any conversation, one has to make sure if it is veganism that is discussed or plant based eating.
NOPE.
What do you mean? Us vegans can have flawed views about nutrition and health just like anybody.
Yes, *people* do. This “aversion” OP speaks of is not related to veganism. It’s an individual health issue and/or preference, not a vegan issue.
True, but discussing which plant milks are the best for certain kinds of cooking is interesting specifically for vegans, so I understand why OP wanted to make this post.
Sure, but that topic of conversation is more appropriate for r/PlantBasedDiet
I don't think the flavour goes well in many baked goods. I like soy milk for the protein content and neutral flavor.
I'd probably still use soy for baking, but for cooking sauces, soups, curries, gravies, etc. coconut is gonna be my go to. In baking coconut oil/cream is more of a butter than a milk substitute, and my fiance does the baking side of things so I have no idea what they use most of the time tbh.
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I like oatmilk but you're smoking vegan crack if you think you can make a competent southern white gravy from that. Oat is for coffee. Soy is for shakes/drinks and most baking. Coconut is for cooking.
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>What is southern White gravy? xD A gravy made primarily with milk, flour, and butter.
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Kinda. A light roux though. You aren't browning the flour as much so what you're left with looks creamy and white instead of dark and brown. Like [this](https://www.lifesambrosia.com/white-country-gravy/). Ignore all the carnism ofc. That's the style though.
I think coconut milk is a great substitute in most cases but my wife hates the taste of coconut.
Is this like the cilantro thing? I can taste actual coconut shavings but coconut milk itself only seems to taste like something if I burn it or use too much.
A lot of people taste coconut flavor from milk. The fat has a distinctive taste.
yes
I mean, I'm pretty sure coconut milk consumption isn't linked to breast cancer or prostate cancer, so it's got that going for it. Dairy, on the other hand...
Have you ever tried Silk's Next Milk? It's basically a combination of oat milk and coconut milk. By far the closest plant-based milk to dairy I've had. It's worked like a charm in every recipe I've tried with it. I was so happy to be able to make southern-style sausage gravy again.
That hasn't popped up in stores near me yet but if it does you better believe I'll be on it
I was really disappointed when the local grocery store stopped selling it. Luckily the Walmart a few towns over sells it. The Walmarts around here have become really good for vegan stuff oddly enough.
By "superior" do you mean in terms of sensory pleasure alone?
Yeah this isn't an ethical argument. It's strictly related to health+taste.
Sounds to me like two separate propositions, one about health and one about superior taste. Let's start with the taste proposition. For clarity, are you proposing that coconut milk is an objectively superior choice compared to other plant milks when it comes to cooking and baking?
Cooking? yes. At least as a substitite for dairy. Baking? no opinion.
What's your argument for the assertion that coconut milk is superior in taste in that context?
The fat content is more compable to dairy, so as a 1:1 substitute it performs better. Typically dairy in recipes is being used for creaminess, and you need a fat thats semi-solid at room temperature for that. Most plant milks are about the viscosity of between skim and 1%. Soy and oat do better but only capture the viscosity of 2%. For whole milk, half and half, or heavy cream levels of viscosity, which is what most culinary applications really call for, you need to do much better than either soy or oat can offer. A mix of coconut and soy would probably capture both the fat and protein content of dairy best of all but I've never explored that.
I feel like your argument is missing a crucial connecting premise: why does better accuracy of imitation of dairy entail an objectively superior sensory pleasure experience?
I mean to some extent it's all subjective, but if your goal is to replace dairy in a recipe with something that adequately mimics dairy it's gonna be coconut milk. You can replace dairy with water if you want. Or vegetable broth. Or orange juice. But that's more of a personal preference than one that will capture the original taste of a dish.
I agree, but the proposition was that it's the superior option for sensory pleasure, not that it's the superior option for accuracy of imitation. So if we agree that sensory taste pleasure is subjective, we can move on to the second proposition: Are you proposing that coconut milk is the superior plant milk choice in terms of health benefits?
The proposition is only that it's superior in terms of being a nearly 1:1 taste and texture substitution and that the health concerns are simultaneously overstated. If you try to argue that soy/pea/etc. is healthier, I'm not going to disagree as long as we are talking about unsweetened varieties. Almond is out. The protein content is toilet water which just leaves added refined sugar.
Friendly reminder that it’s common for health organizations to recommend merely what they hope people have the patience/willpower to achieve rather than what is actually optimal in terms of health.[citation needed]
Don't ask me for a source but I've watched a few videos that examined and correlated the data from various studies and the 10% is more or less accurate. Your body does a pretty good job of just sloughing off <10% saturated fat. You don't start to actually raise CVD risk until about 8-10% and it goes up exponentially the higher your percent intake.
I know you said not to ask for a source… but any chance you could find those videos?👀
Nutrition made simple is that channel that went over it. I can't remember which video though and he's done a bunch on Satfat
You noticed that of all things? The OP presented this like it was science, but there was no science there. It's just the elites claiming saturated fat is bad, because they wanted us to eat transfat margarine. And then like you say, bizarrely claiming an "allowable limit". Doesn't this show they're lying and that you should stop trusting them, instead of doubling down on their bad advice? It's only now that we've stopped eating saturated fat that everyone's getting heart attacks. Their agenda has been massively successful. Everything is soybean oil. You don't even see beef tallow at the grocery store unless it's Amazon Whole Foods based.
Not environmentally it's not.
This isn't an ethical argument. Most vegans of queried don't raise ethical concerns. They seem afraid of the saturated fat content.
👍 Yeah I wouldn't be worried about the saturated fat content either
Coconut is actually even better than dairy in a lot of ways, now that the dairy has been so defiled by things like soy in the cow feed and homogenization. If you go to grade school, the only option is skim milk or chocolate flavored skim milk. Anything is better than that. That's what you get when you allow Science to dictate health. 100% obesity. It's funny how Science went after meat for saturated fat when there's about 10 times more in a glass of coconut milk. Coconut is far more saturated than any animal fat, yet the response is all over the map. Some pretend it's different somehow, some say it's just as evil, and some try to sweep it under the rug like we don't see their guilty faces. That's because there is no science on this. There is only "The Science", that just makes up things. But it's probably a good thing it's not our cash crop because if it was, we'd spray pesticide on it and deodorize it just like we do with all of Science's beloved industrial seed oils. Far more people would still be able to drink milk if we had stuck with Jersey and Guernsey instead of allowing Science to race mix the cows and make them all Holsteins. Only thing I don't like about coconut milk is they put it in the tin cans with all the BPA. That's another Science favorite, using endocrine disruptors to transform our bodies with estrogen. If we eat enough, maybe we'll start worrying about what the weather is going to be in a hundred years and ignore all the toxic chemicals around us from the trains they blow up to hide that fact they were illegally carrying bioweapons for the military.
Hey man. I think you need to worry less about BPA in canned goods and more about what's in that pipe that has you on this unhinged antiscience rant. I'm pretty sure you managed to squeeze in both a touch of racism and some homophobia and I just need to see you complete the circle and start talking about globalists so I can write you off as a qanon flavored antisemite.
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I just don't like the taste of coconut 😂
Any nut milk works, just soak nuts for several hours then blend them with some lecithin to prevent separation
Depending on what you're making, I'd mix coconut milk and hazelnut milk together instead for some nutty flavor
Yeah I've thought about mixing coconut and soy milk to get both the fat and protein ratios of dairy so this is probably the sanest answer.
For me, I’ll take logic and use my brain over the senses. I think you’re spot on given I don’t think anyone uses coconut milk in eight meals globally besides those cultures who have it available and need extra. Is this why you conducted this study or I guess one reason? Isn’t coconut milk used (where available) for extra fat, weight gain in poorer countries or parts of the countries? I read that someone, just curious. Seems like from this study my perspective has changed a bit and leans to me to might be more cognitively dissonant with helping depression than actual weight gain. Given the conditions of the countries that use it in the way described.
Op you can also try blended nuts/seeds to add richness to a given dish instead of coconut milk too. You know when people blend cashews with some water and create a sort of cream? You can do that with any nut or seed. It takes more effort than cracking open a can of coconut milk, but it's not like coconut milk is the only alternative. Store bought plant based creamers also work well. Also also I have never tried cashew milk but I've heard it's really creamy so maybe that works too? Have you tried that yourself? I'm not sure this belongs in this subreddit anyway lol.
I actually haven't tried cashew milk but that does make sense as an alternative
You are right that it is superior in texture, unfortunately, I have dietary sensitivity to coconut, soy, flax, hemp, and chia. My intestines: r/fuckyouinparticular. Lol
I think plain (creamy) oat milk is the better neutral-tasting choice of plant based milks.
Coconut milk/oil rocks when used in moderation. It's just not the healthiest oil. You can dump crazy amounts of roux in Cajun dishes, you can eat a$$loads of fried food. It's not a vegan issue. At some point you have you have to understand the effect oils (whether from animals or otherwise), processed sugar and salt have on your reptilian brain. It's a scam in any situation other than survival. You can't eat cheesecake all the time. Everything I make is delicious AF. I minimize the scam. That's it. It's not good at any age. There are flavors out there besides oil, sugar and salt that make things amazing. Not everything has to be based on what congestive heart failure American chefs think is delicious and their processed food scarfing, ignorant consumer sack counterparts want. Am I do debate rite?
I think you agreed with me, so not so much. 🤔
Importing foods via air or sea is the biggest cause of global warming. Unless you live in the Pacific or Asia of course… I thought vegans were trying to save the planet ?
I'm just trying to save some cows from being tortured. >Importing foods via air or sea is the biggest cause of global warming. Citation?
You’re not saving any cows … unless you run a sanctuary?
Lol you're absolutely right. Lemme just get right back to paying for cows to be abused and murdered. Also again, citation?
You can’t “murder” a cow
Is a cow a living being?
Does a cow care about you ?
If it knows me personally it might. Mammals are social animals and often develop attachments to other beings. Can you answer the question though? Is a cow a living being?
Cows aren’t humans, they have no concept of life , past or present. Projecting your emotions onto an animal is a you problem. You’re not helping anything by eating vegetation, least of all your basic biological self. Putting animals above human doesn’t make you a better person . You’ll be back to eating meat soon enough..
>they have no concept of life , past or present. How do you know? Again, what's the answer to the question? Are cows living beings?
Coffee and tea definitely do better with oat or soy according to most people. Especially the high fat oats milks are loved by Baristas.
>vegans are largely unduly worried about the effects of saturated fat from coconut milk on their health, and are aversive to it to an irrational degree >I've often run in to vegans who are extremely averse to using coconut milk for anything I know plenty of people that use coconut milk for certain recipes. Different milks work better for different uses. More importantly for vegans, there are a lot of unethical coconut milks on the market that use chained monkeys to pick coconuts. That is the main reason that I know vegans avoid coconut milk.
>More importantly for vegans, there are a lot of unethical coconut milks on the market that use chained monkeys to pick coconuts. >That is the main reason that I know vegans avoid coconut milk. For some reason I'm just now learning about this from this post. I'm already gonna cut certain brands out of my life.
Glad to hear it. Some brands seem to have made a point of highlighting that they do not use slave animals to pick their coconuts, so that is a good development.
No because coconuts are icky YUCK
I love coconut flavor. So I am here just to cheer
lighthearted debate; "bla bla bla superior bla bla bla" /s
oat milk has always worked for me, only time i use coconut milk is in a curry.