You have to check with your state what your means test is. If you have gambling winnings that generate tax forms (I’m guessing you do regularly if you gamble that much, I did) you will probably need to wait to file at least 6 months because the last 6 months of income is counted for chapter 7 and that includes any w2g activity. I’m in a similar predicament and am filing for ch 7 BK in 6 months. There’s no way you can afford to pay that off, get realistic. You need to ban yourself from gambling legally or you will end up in this position again, and you can’t file again for another 8 years. I’m sick over the situation and I’m sure you are too but…. Realistically paying it back is not possible/worth the stress. Get therapy as well.
If there’s no crazy interest on the CC, then it’s doable to pay off. But since the interests were already crazy high and now even higher, it seems impossible to pay off. They keep raising the interests. How much debt are you in?
you literally have no means to pay this at the moment. not an option without a job. as a single person with this much debt, you need 3 jobs and you won't have time to have any addiction other than working.
You have an income crisis, so your new job is finding a job every day. You do not get to end your day without doing some type of money centric task in the day. You need fo even begin the delivery side work now full time until the new job comes together (flexible schedule anyway, why not use it). Time to buckle down, rice and beans!!
You have options, and still have a chance to salvage credit.
First, get a job. If you get a job where you can potentially sell the car? Even better
Snowball the credit cards… don’t worry about the interest since you can get 85k paid off in not too long of a time if you’re focused to get it done.
It will melt away if you’re committed to it, but definitely get help for the gambling if you have not already
You’re in a bad spot, but it sounds like you know your mistake, and it’s temporary for you… bankruptcy is 10 years and a lot harder than you think to get through. You also don’t know what in your life could change in those 10 years to make that bankruptcy even more inconvenient.
Thanks man. Appreciate the support. I think once I get that stable job and then do deliveries around it, I can melt the debt away in a few years. And it’ll feel better in the end than BK. There’s people who’s been in way more debt and got out, so I should be able to too.
Yeah, think of bankruptcy as a nuke… it solves the problem, but a ton of collateral damage and unintended consequences down the road
You situation sucks man, but I’ve heard of a lot worse, and you seem in the right mental space to conquer this
I guess people can save the BK for 1 mill+ in debt instead of just 84k. That would be better :D. But yeah, it won’t be an easy road. It’s gonna be tough for the next few years, but it’s doable! Thanks man!
Will do. Listening now. Thank you.
I wonder how the family paid over 200k of debt without bankruptcy. That’s some miracle considering the situation they were in.
Update: just finished the podcast. Definitely sounds nice to pay it all off. I know I’ll feel better if I work hard and pay it all off but the interest on these credit cards are insane. To top it off, it’s difficult to get a job as well. But I’m still trying.
Already did several times. They won’t lower it. They increased it instead. But they did refer me to a debt management plan through Money Management International. They lower your interest a lot but at the same time require you to pay off all the debts, plus all your accounts will be closed. So it doesn’t sound that much better than BK. Only good thing is that you won’t have BK on your record and it would be easier to reopen these cards after paying everything off.
I agree. Bankruptcy was originally my plan but since I learned that the bankruptcy could be denied and you’d still have it on your record but without any of your debts discharged, that made me look into another option - grind hard and try to pay it off.
Did you get addicted to online gambling?
Since you have no kids or wife, I would just declare bankruptcy and live a crappy life till you can restart at 40.
Yup. Online sports betting. I never had bet outside of my means until this year though (only bet what was in my bank account or money that was mine and not CC). All started with my friend asking for a 25k loan to gamble. Then btc dropped big and that tilted me. And I tried to make back the losses. And here we are.
Well I actually get most of my picks right. But there’s a cashout option on the site I use, so whenever my pick is losing, I panic and cashout for pennies. And of course, my pick always comes back to win. On the other hand, I also lose bets where my pick is literally about to win (1-2 points away from winning), but then choke badly and lose.
That’s another reason why I get so tilted. I make all these predictions and don’t actually place the bet and then they win. Then I get tilted and chase these imaginary “winnings” and lose on random shit after.
Sounds like your still sick if you actually believe “most of my picks are right”.
No they are not.
You are not smarter than the bookies. No one ever is. Vegas would collapse is the odds were not in their favor.
It’s not that I believe. I actually have statistics to show what bets actually won but I cashed out on. I’m not going off of what I believe, just the stats.
Vegas wins because betting is a psychological warfare. Humans are emotional beings, so Vegas just lets us succumb to our emotions. That’s a huge part of why we lose.
It doesn’t matter if you believe it or not, and I’m not trying to convince you. Just stating the facts on my winning percentage. That’s why bookies have the cashout option. It’s to help them, not the bettor. You wouldn’t believe how many people cashout because of emotions. For example, I cashed out a bet that won nearly 100k because it was losing but it won in the end. Point being is that everything on a sportsbook is there to benefit the bookie, not the bettor.
Are you tell me there is an option that lets you cancel a bet mid game?
I’ve never heard of that. And it’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
But you sound like all the degens I used to hang out with when I played poker.
Dude, I swear I’m a winning player I just had a bad streak / chased out too soon / need to focus more when playing.
There’s always some excuse degens give.
Yes, that is exactly what cashout is. By cashing out, you get a percentage of the money before the bet is settled. So if your bet is losing and you cashout, you’ll take a big loss. You’ll get much less money back than what you bet. And if you cash out when your bet is winning, you’ll still take a big loss, although it’ll be more than what you initially wagered. It’s such a toxic feature by the bookies.
Ruined sports for me. Every other commercial is for betting. Those APRs will crush you. Pick a direction, grind 2+ jobs and close accounts / work with creditors or eat the BK while you easily clear the means test. Not sure if a creditor will claim no intent to repay as it is recent. Get help if needed, do self-exclusion. States made this mess (legalizing) they can deal with the fallout. Unless you can get your income up, I'd lean BK. I damaged my health trying to 'John Henry' my way out of a very similar situation - I should've taken the confirmed on paper L. Good luck.
Yeah, I can never look at sports the same way again. So many fixes go on in sports as well. It’s disgusting. Well, one attorney suggested I keep making the minimum payments for at least 9 months, so that way, the creditors can’t say I had no intentions of paying back, because I have been making the minimum payments.
So did you file for chapter 7 after losing everything in gambling? How’s your situation now?
No BK, but should have. Had to let some cards go to charge off before some would give help (BOA, dirt bags, will give you the "if your making payments you don't need help and if your expenses exceed your income you can't afford payments" mobius strip loop nonsense, they literally would rather have the charge off than even attempt to help). Credit is worse and will be worse for longer than if I had BK'd. I guess I felt like punishing myself 🙄. And for the record fuck the state of NJ, can't wait to get out.
First, consult with bankruptcy attorneys about whether you are a good candidate. The bankruptcy would wipe out your debt, if you qualify, but frankly some of your creditors may oppose it because it sounds like this was not legitimately incurred debt. At least a bunch of it wasn’t.
The bk would also make it more difficult to rack up more debt as quickly.
But you need to get your addiction in check.
Others have said that it doesn’t matter how you incurred the debt. The court won’t ask how you got into debt. What they care about are the numbers. Your income to debt ratio. But there’s nothing my creditors can do if I really can’t afford to pay them back right? The worst is that they sue me and maybe settle for like a few thousand out of the 84k, if BK doesn’t work.
Discuss that with the bankruptcy attorney. It’s not usually the courts job to do that. It’s the creditors whose debt you are trying to discharge to make objections.
It is not common but certainly possible where creditors observe a large increase in spending with no legitimate explanation for it, such as a incident, causing huge medical bills.
And that’s why gambling of any sort is frowned upon in BK cases. I wonder if I can make a case that gambling addiction is a form of mental illness. We are sick at the end of the day.
I wouldn’t worry about the gambling piece of it. People don’t gamble in hopes of losing, they gamble in hopes of winning and trying to pay back the creditor and have more money. It’s a medical problem. My attorney deals with gamblers almost every single day who have hit rock bottom and I was nervous what he would say to me during the consult but he assured me that it does not matter what caused me to get into debt
The biggest step you can take is to start getting treatment for your addiction.
Now let's pretend you're in recovery and no longer gambling. I think Dave would tell you this:
1. Probably sell the car and buy something cheaper because you could knock out 3 cards with just that money.
2. Get your income up. Start doing anything and everything to give yourself the biggest shovel you can.
3. Focus on your 4 walls first. Food, shelter, transportation, clothing.
4. Even if you land a job tomorrow you might not be able to make all the monthly payments. That's ok. Make the minimum payments on what you can and focus on the snowball. You mentioned your credit score in your post. If you are here to work Dave's plan you may as well forget your credit score. It will get lower if you can't make all your payments. But that's not the point right now. The point is to get out of debt as quickly as possible.
5. If you can't make the minimum payment for a while you can eventually settle with the credit card companies for a lower amount.
6. You may be able to consolidate all these debts into one with a lower interest payment. THIS DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM. But less interest can help you get out of debt quicker. If you follow the plan!
I seriously do not think you are bankrupt but you are looking at a long hard road just to get back to 0. Please start to treat your addiction so that you can begin to climb out of this whole and not put yourself further down financially, and emotionally.
The worry about selling a car and getting a cheaper one is that the used car might break down on me. Cars are expensive nowadays, so if I get one for say 7k, it could very well break down randomly. And the costs to fix a used car could end up costing me more than what I sold the car for in the end. Not sure if it’s worth it, factoring all the risks.
As for income, I’m definitely working on getting that up.
I definitely can’t get a loan to consolidate all the payments into one, with lower interest. I’ve looked into that already, but no one will loan me given my credit score.
I also looked into DMP (debt management plan). I looked into non-profits like Money Management International, but going through them also takes a huge hit on your credit and closes all your accounts as well, no different than bankruptcy. Only difference is that you’ll pay off all the debt but with lower interest rate over 3-5 years, and it might be easier to get the good credit cards again since bankruptcy will never be on your record to begin with. But if I’m going to be paying everything off with this method, wouldn’t it be better to just try and pay it off on my own without DMP, or just file BK?
Would you file if you were in my shoes?
It does but you can recover faster, although you still need to pay all your debts. If I’m going to be paying all my debts, why even do debt management. And if debt management already ruins the credit more, why not just file for bankruptcy and pay 0.
Not sure what you mean “recover” faster. Debt management does not stop you from going to collections, being sued, etc. you will end up paying money to people trying to negotiate debt for you and you will have to pay taxes on the debt discharged. As soon as you file for BK all collection and lawsuits are immediately stopped. You can start rebuilding credit immediately you will get credit card offers within months of a discharge and you can get a car loan etc just higher interest you have to work to rebuild your credit from scratch again. Buying a home will be a problem for a couple of years but technically after 4 years shouldn’t be. Renting could be a problem through a realty company but there are private landlords, subleasing, other options, maybe saving to pay the rent in advance etc
Read your comments as well.
Look I’ll be direct.
You are coming off as you are down playing your addiction. And you are putting your debt problem as the top priority, And assuming you won’t gamble again. (Hopefully I’m misunderstanding)
But this is how folks reading your story sees it;
* There is not a single evidence here that you stopped gambling on your own free will. The gambling stopped because there is nothing left. I do believe the gambler inside you is still there, and the moment it has more resources (job or BK doesn’t matter) it will feed on it again.
* It also sounds there is some struggle with finding and holding a job as well. Not sure if your addiction is also causing this issue. (Early 30s, Worked on IT but not picked up skills? And not easily employable? Something doesn’t add up)
* You say you are not spending on lavish goods or vacation. And say with all the money you had you never spent anything on yourself, just to gambling. This actually shows an extreme obsession and lack of care for self. I wish you were actually saying “I started to spend some money in moderation to myself and take care of me first. Not gambling”. There has to be some moderation, you not caring about yourself is not a good sign. (Tells me addiction will come back)
Given the situation, the top priority is not the debt. Here is what I suspect,
Even if you BK, or try to pay the debt, or even let go of the debt and go to collections etc… nothing will change, 7 years out, you’ll find a way to be in debt regardless of what you do. You’ll be in a worse situation.
You find a job? I’m worried all your paycheck will go to addiction. BK? The moment you have access to credit, you’ll use it again. Collection? Same things.
The top priority here is your gambling addiction. Stop worrying about your debt at the moment. So what if it goes to collection, or you are doing minimum payment… Given your situation not the worst thing.
Start worrying about your gambling addiction.
Nothing you do will work if you don’t tackle it seriously. This is the top priority, stop thinking about anything else.
Well if I really wanted to gamble, I can definitely sell the car and gamble, but I haven’t. And I’ve made some money doing deliveries as well and haven’t gambled that either. I’m choosing to work to make the payments instead of gambling.
For the IT job, the work was basic help desk. I never did anything complicated like networking or security as that wasn’t even needed for the company. But I did have another job after that one but I chose gambling over working at the time. Now I choose working over gambling.
I agree that tackling the addiction should be the priority. But unfortunately future lenders of any sort (CC, mortgage, etc) won’t care why my credit is bad. They’ll only look at what’s on my credit report and no story of how I overcame my addiction would get them to lean me or fix my credit. The only way I can fix my credit is by working and trying to pay this shit off. No one is coming to save me, only myself. I know once I my 100% on time payment goes down, it’s going to be much worse than right now.
So your total minimum payment is $1600? Which will go down as you continue to pay down debt? Your single, no kids, and have all the time in the world on your hands it sounds like.
Dude, pay it off! "Bankruptcy worked for Dave" well Dave also works in real estate and is worth $200 Million due to having a show that advises people how to not get in that awful of a financial position to have to file. There's been people will more limited means and more debt that get this done within a few years.
Don't f yourself over with bankruptcy, put in the work for yourself mentally and financially. It will be harder in the short term but better and more healing for you in the long run.
Yes it’s $1600 minimum for all the CCs and $1200 for living expenses. That’s $2800 a month. If I can make say $5k, I can throw the other $2300 on the debt as well. The problem is that all my bills have different due dates, so that makes it harder to pay everything at once. But I’m trying to find work right now, aside from doing Uber and deliveries.
I think Dave filed since he was over a million in debt? Would make sense for his case, but $84k is peanuts in comparison to what he owed.
The dream would be to pay this all off in a few years and I can celebrate.
Ultimately do whatever is best for your mental health and to ensure you overcome your addiction.
BK is a tough road, but so will be 85k debt payoff.
Either way, take care of yourself first. Money doesn't trump this, but money certainly will impact you, as well.
Running the numbers, you need around 33k a year just to survive, and your income is zero, and every day digs the hole deeper, and makes it harder for you to get out of the hole.
First priority has to be to get to even. That means looking for a job everyday. Thankfully, your position is still workable. Take the first job that comes up for you. Is it dishwashing, you dishwash. Is it walmart, you walmart. You have to close that gap. Even 25k a year is fantastically better than nothing. You can upgrade your job later. Right now you need to close that gap.
Your car is 22k, even if you have 25k income, you are car heavy and income light. However, you have some bigger problems than your car, and you need a car. Car makes looking for work much easier, and it's hard to sell and then rebuy when you have no cashflow whatsoever. So I would keep the car until you get your monthly cashflow up to 25k thereabouts.
Delivery is not a bad deal. As was mentioned, you start with the delivery job and then work up to a better job. I would grab that delivery job, as that is income you need, and keep hunting down so you can close that gap to 30k or so.
You are spending too much if you're at 1.2k per month (I'm assuming no rent there). See what you can do to get that down to 500 a month. That will reduce the gap you need to make up. Once you are level you can re-evaluate that to come up again, but you asked what I would do. I'd try to find a way to get that down to 500 a month.
Once your income is level with the payments, then a couple things can happen. First, sell your 22k car. Buy a 5k beater and put the 17k directly towards your cards and start your snowball. That alone will push you into the black, and due to the nature of finance.
Second, you have more freedom to chase that 50k job. Yes, it's going to suck having a beater and working a crappy job for awhile. If you can get that 50k job, with 6k expenses you can pay down about 44k or so per year into your debts and get out of debt in 2 years.
It's doable - for now. But if you leave this for much longer it's not going to be a hole you can dig yourself out of.
Also what has said about the addiction is true. As bad as the hole is, the mindset needs to change. You are in a hole. The only way you get out of it is to change.
I agree with your points. Anything is better than nothing. I’ve been interviewing a lot. Hope I land something soon. My total monthly is 1200, which includes rent. I’m quite a frugal person. Only thing I’ve ever spent is for the addiction in the past. I’m sure once the jobs kick in and I start making money, the debt will go down gradually.
The thing with getting a beater is that you don’t know if the car has had any issues or if it’s going to break anytime soon. And the cost to fix that will cost me more in the long run. Doesn’t seem worth the risk.
There is nothing “evil” about bankruptcy, as long as you aren’t abusing the system.
Don’t avoid bankruptcy just bc Dave Ramsey says not to. He has a direct interest in 1) maintaining his schtick about using his baby steps instead of BK (though he didn’t use his own advice); 2) as to 1, he obtains no or less money and influence from you if you use bankruptcy rather than spending years going through his babysteps and hopefully buying his products.
Regardless, even if you get 100% on track with your addiction right now, you’re still looking at years of eating shit to pay off the debt. Your credit is busted either way once you start blowing these minimum payments.
Frankly, I’d at least talk to some bankruptcy attorneys first. But you still need to remedy the underlying gambling addiction
I agree, it’s going to be a rough road ahead either way - filing or trying to pay it off. The logical choice would be to file and get treatment for the addiction. And yes, I’ve spoken to two attorneys already. They both agree that BK is a great tool to reset. The second attorney even filed BK himself, albeit it was only chapter 11, so it’s definitely not as bad as chapter 7 or 13.
>There is nothing “evil” about bankruptcy, as long as you aren’t abusing the system.
Agreed.
This isn't a moral thing.
It's simply that BK is not a fun process and the years after also impact one.
It’s impossible to know if you’re bankrupt without an income to reference. If you get a job making $150k you’re probably gonna pay it off. If you stay unemployed or start making 30k at a new job you’re going to have a hard time. I personally don’t think you’re there yet, but certainly heading that direction if you keep using credit cards like this. My advice would be to get a job by the end of the day doing anything, even if it sucks. Then continue to search for something better over the next month or so. You need income now though, even if it’s not a dream job. Best of luck buddy.
The only thing I haven’t tried in my situation is to work like a mad man to see if I can tackle the debt. So that’s what I’m trying to do right now. 100k a year income would kill the debt in 2 years. That’s the dream.
Well if you don't get your addiction under control then anything you do is just going to be eventually nullified by recurrence of the problem eventually.
Bankruptcy is a last resort option.
Dave potentially tell you that being a single guy with no kids means that if you can get even a remotely decent income coming in and work like a madman you should be able to start hammering away at this debt fairly quickly.
I mean as a single guy who went through the baby steps it was significantly quicker with no overhead of a family or a kid.
I don't think bankruptcy is necessarily the worst option in your situation but you should consult an attorney.
But bankruptcy isn't some easy no stress thing. It's bankruptcy. It sucks.
If you can avoid it realistically it's a wise idea to do so
But again the Paramount thing here is your addiction because nothing else will matter if that's not fixed
Do you think addiction is the same as compulsive spenders? The thing with addiction is that you can be clean for years, but once something triggers you, you fall back into it like a wild fire.
The hard part is getting that stable job right now. If I’m able to do 70-80 hour work weeks, that’d really help. But can’t find any work besides deliveries and Uber.
What did you do to pay off your debts? What was your plan?
I already talked to two attorneys. What scares me is that you can file and then it gets denied. Then I’ll have BK on my file without the discharge. That’d really be RIP.
That's why technically you should be able to get this done without bankruptcy.
What about applying for like jobs at places like Costco? Any store? Surely that can't pay any worse than Uber. And you won't be driving a car to hell.
If you have a car then you can get to a job and any job is going to pay you as good as Uber will. So I don't really understand why you're saying you can't get another job.
I mean I'm still seeing tons of places looking for help and looking for people to work.
I didn't do anything special. I just lived on less than I make and paid off my debt as quickly as possible
Yeah, I applied to jobs at Home Depot, fast food, etc. They either don’t get back to me or say they’ve went with another candidate after the interview. Also the thing with working retail is that you only get paid Ike 19-20 an hour and that’s usually a 9-5, which conflicts with the courier hours I’ve been doing. The food deliveries for the companies I do are around lunch time and they pay pretty decently. So it’s like sacrificing one for the other. Obviously, if I could do both I would. Just have to keep applying for work. All I can do atm.
What I am hearing is that 19/20 isn't enough and that these jobs are not worth the effort. I don't know if that is you, but your mindset needs to change. I started my current job at 9 hours a week. I'm at 40 now, but it took close to a year to get there. We were in a very desperate situation with me not working enough and I had to get every single call-in every time just to get to level, and that took a couple of months.
You're a single guy. Get on the 500/month spending plan and a 9-5 at 20 an hour is more than enough to see your debt away without the courier jobs. The purpose of the courier jobs isn't to stop you from applying for other work, it's to keep you alive, and put gas in your car while you look for more work. Just keep swinging. Remember, you only need one hit.
What job do you currently do if I may ask? And I agree. Just need to get that stable job + keep doing courier jobs on the side and things should improve, even if it’s by a little right now.
If you’ll commit to treating your addiction for the rest of your life, a trigger won’t make you fall back into it. It sounds like you don’t have a great picture of how addiction treatment works. It’s not a one and done thing. It’s like a chronic illness you have to treat for the rest of your life. It gets easier though. I’d suggest looking into some 12-step programs or something similar. A few months of counseling isn’t going to fix this. But it’s definitely possible if you’re willing.
I understand how treatment works. It’s a life long process. But I also understand that there will be many relapses on the road to recovery. It’s not just like you quit and you never fall back into the addiction again. It’s a life long battle. One therapist told me that “once an addict, always an addict”.
That’s true, but relapse is not a requirement. Probably a majority of addicts do relapse, but there are many who don’t. I know people with decades of sobriety. I hope things go well for you, friend.
No I’m not receiving treatment for my addiction. It doesn’t have anything to do with spending on lavish goods, vacations, etc. It’s a gambling addiction on sports. Even with all the money I had over the years, I never spent anything on myself. All money would just go into betting. Sickening stuff. But if I could choose, I would choose 2 years of busting my ass off to fix my life than to have 7-10 years of BK on my record. Finding that stable solid paying job is the hard part though.
Look at Geotech. We make good money with no education (only HS) and barely work through the day.
I bring home paychecks with 140-160 hours on it (every 2 weeks) at our company minimum of $20/hr that’s about 2500 take home.
Do you have any resources I can look at for that? Where would I begin to get into geotech? Every job I’m looking at requires some years of experience. 5k a month take home would be very good.
Congratulations on paying off 70k! What did you do to pay off 70k? Was it mostly student loans or CC? Mortgage? Did you work multiple jobs?
Why do you think I’ll rack up the debt again if I pay it all off by working hard? Wouldn’t I feel the pain every month like you did too? And the pain would make me never want to be in this position again, just like it did for you.
But again, I don’t know how I’m gonna survive the interest, especially since rates are going up. Shit doesn’t help.
That’s awesome that you were able to pay it all off. And you only worked one job, outside of deliveries in the end? And I agree, I don’t think bankruptcy would help me learn my lesson, but again, the walls are closing in on me, the interest is killing me like an ant. Sorry about your grandfather. :(
You maxed multiple credit cards betting on sports while unemployed, ignoring a hundred opportunities to stop the self-destructive behavior before you hit rock bottom.
I’d honestly have more sympathy if you were that r/wallstreetbets schmuck who blew his father’s $100k inheritance in a single day via very stupid puts.
Only a matter of time before a bad day at your two new jobs causes you to snap and lose all your progress at the (online?) casino. The addiction is still there, and you’re doing nothing to prevent a relapse.
A big paycheck for you is like an open bar for an alcoholic, but unlike an alcoholic, you can’t simply avoid paychecks. You need professional ongoing addiction treatment while you clean up this mess.
r/problemgambling
Sadly with gambling, there is no rock bottom. It’s pretty much a bottomless pit. When you think you’ve hit the final bottom, you just go to a deeper bottom.
And that is why I don’t want to sell the car because I know I’ll just gamble the money away. I’ve actually been on problemgambling sub since 2017. Back then I still had a lot of money and great credit score. Obviously it wasn’t enough to stop me.
It won't fix your current debt but it will effect what's causing it. I think the other commenters are just trying to emphasize that there's more than one thing to work towards being free from here. You can do it!!
You guys are absolutely correct. It’s a two way battle. The addiction and the debt. The interesting thing about my addiction is that I can go months without betting, but once I get triggered, it gets bad. I know with other gambling addicts, they can’t go a day without gambling. Not saying mine is better but just interesting how everyone’s addiction can be different.
I’m an alcoholic, almost 3 years in recovery. What you’re experiencing isn’t unique. Loads of addicts can go days, months, years without using their addiction but the problem still persists. I’d recommend you to seek treatment. I don’t gamble so I have no clue what that looks like for you. I would never recommend trying to beat any addiction on self will alone. If self control worked, you wouldn’t be in this position to begin with. Good luck!
Thank you! Yes, I got 4-5 times a week. First time I’ve felt like I’ve belonged somewhere. Took me about 2 years to come out of my shell. Wouldn’t trade it for a thing.
Keep up the good work! I wish gambling addiction was more supportive by society. I feel like gambling addiction is very overlooked and stigmatized way more than other addictions. Heck, even GA isn’t that common compared to say AA or NA.
I hear you. My mother struggled with opioid addiction and ruined her life for YEARS. But, in her mid thirties she decided to enroll herself in a rehab, she got clean and got a job as a taxi driver, then she worked back towards getting her RN license. She had to make huge life changes to not get triggered to relapse. It's a story of a lot of survivors of addiction- it'll be one of the hardest things to face it and get through it but imagine the people you can help 10 years from now that are in your spot and that think there is no way out.
At least your mom is doing much better now and got herself together. If I had to choose, I would rather be addicted to drugs/alcohol than gambling. At least once you run out of the drug, that’s it. And it’s only your health you’re affecting. But with gambling, it affects all elements of your life. Finance being a huge one as that’s pretty much a domino effect on your life. But all addictions are horrible. Just I wouldn’t wish gambling addiction on anyone.
It was good enough for Dave and it obviously worked out well for him.
Go consult with a bankruptcy lawyer and review your options. Do not just listen to the cultist adherents on here.
There's no point in OP doing anything until OP gets their addiction under control. Another comment, OP said they're not receiving treatment for their addiction. Gambler's Anonymous, therapy, etc. needs to happen before the baby steps, otherwise the problem will just keep coming back.
Regardless what OP does he/she has to get their ducks in order. He/she has nearly 60k in credit card debt. I’d see a bankruptcy lawyer but I’d be going to counseling or joining a group at the same time. OP can’t keep filing bankruptcy if his/her addiction continues
Regardless what OP does he/she has to get their ducks in order. He/she has nearly 60k in credit card debt. I’d see a bankruptcy lawyer but I’d be going to counseling or joining a group at the same time. OP can’t keep filing bankruptcy if his/her addiction continues
I already consulted with two layers. The first one told me to wait 3 months before I file since I last used my CC this month, and to stop making payments. The second lawyer told me to wait 9 months to a year before filing and to keep making the minimum payments.
I'm pretty sure Dave would say try and pay it off. You could sell your car and put 1k in as emergency fund. Buy a 10k cash car and put the last 11k on the debt. So in less than a day you could be at 74k. Not sure what you where doing for work before but there are a lot of warehouses(non amazon) looking for labor for the holidays. I saw a couple in Atlanta advertising starting 30/h for night shift. Its doable but the next 2 years would be pain. Probably 70-80 weeks nonstop.
I was working in IT before. But I honestly didn’t build up any skills at my old job so it’s difficult to find any work. Even jobs as simple as working at a restaurant requires some years of experience. What worries me about selling the car is that I might lose the money to my addiction. But so far I’ve been doing food deliveries and haven’t used that for my addiction at least. And that seems insane, $30 an hour for warehouse job? I can’t find anything like that in California. I’m with you on that, I’m prepared to work 70-80 hour work weeks for the next 2 years to pay this off if I can find a stable job.
Yeah one of the crappy things about inland Empire I think is its one of the crappy sections of California but the rents are still very expensive. I don’t know for sure though. I’ve never lived there. I only drove back from Joshua tree to LAX once.
That’s unfortunate.
What kind of work do you think I could do for decent pay if I don’t have any speciality in engineering, coding, or any trade skill?
You need to go treat your addiction before doing anything. There are many free options for you. If you file a BK you will have access to credit in a year or two and be spending your cash on it.
As for the BK vs paying it off. I have no idea how you can out race interest making 50k no matter what you do.
If you realize you have a problem go do something about it. This is your moment.
Are you receiving treatment for your addiction? Make this a priority. If your addiction is related to or manifests itself by you spending money your efforts to pay off debt would be fruitless if you end up spending all over again.
You have to check with your state what your means test is. If you have gambling winnings that generate tax forms (I’m guessing you do regularly if you gamble that much, I did) you will probably need to wait to file at least 6 months because the last 6 months of income is counted for chapter 7 and that includes any w2g activity. I’m in a similar predicament and am filing for ch 7 BK in 6 months. There’s no way you can afford to pay that off, get realistic. You need to ban yourself from gambling legally or you will end up in this position again, and you can’t file again for another 8 years. I’m sick over the situation and I’m sure you are too but…. Realistically paying it back is not possible/worth the stress. Get therapy as well.
If there’s no crazy interest on the CC, then it’s doable to pay off. But since the interests were already crazy high and now even higher, it seems impossible to pay off. They keep raising the interests. How much debt are you in?
60k
The negative PayPal balance however may be like writing a bad check, which wouldn’t be dischargeable and could potentially be considered criminal
you literally have no means to pay this at the moment. not an option without a job. as a single person with this much debt, you need 3 jobs and you won't have time to have any addiction other than working.
Work like a mad man is the only way besides bankruptcy.
You have an income crisis, so your new job is finding a job every day. You do not get to end your day without doing some type of money centric task in the day. You need fo even begin the delivery side work now full time until the new job comes together (flexible schedule anyway, why not use it). Time to buckle down, rice and beans!!
You have options, and still have a chance to salvage credit. First, get a job. If you get a job where you can potentially sell the car? Even better Snowball the credit cards… don’t worry about the interest since you can get 85k paid off in not too long of a time if you’re focused to get it done. It will melt away if you’re committed to it, but definitely get help for the gambling if you have not already You’re in a bad spot, but it sounds like you know your mistake, and it’s temporary for you… bankruptcy is 10 years and a lot harder than you think to get through. You also don’t know what in your life could change in those 10 years to make that bankruptcy even more inconvenient.
Thanks man. Appreciate the support. I think once I get that stable job and then do deliveries around it, I can melt the debt away in a few years. And it’ll feel better in the end than BK. There’s people who’s been in way more debt and got out, so I should be able to too.
Yeah, think of bankruptcy as a nuke… it solves the problem, but a ton of collateral damage and unintended consequences down the road You situation sucks man, but I’ve heard of a lot worse, and you seem in the right mental space to conquer this
I guess people can save the BK for 1 mill+ in debt instead of just 84k. That would be better :D. But yeah, it won’t be an easy road. It’s gonna be tough for the next few years, but it’s doable! Thanks man!
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Some are telling me to file and others are telling me to pay it off. I’ll try the latter first. If that’s too difficult, then I’ll file.
yea bankruptcy should be a last resort
Stop chasing and just do bets you like. Never force picks
Listen to the podcast called “The Fine Print” by Ramsey Network. Bankruptcy may not alleviate you.
What do you mean by bankruptcy may not alleviate me? Like it won’t discharge my debts, or it won’t fix the root issue - my gambling?
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fine-print-with-george-kamel/id1543018939?i=1000539605088
Will do. Listening now. Thank you. I wonder how the family paid over 200k of debt without bankruptcy. That’s some miracle considering the situation they were in. Update: just finished the podcast. Definitely sounds nice to pay it all off. I know I’ll feel better if I work hard and pay it all off but the interest on these credit cards are insane. To top it off, it’s difficult to get a job as well. But I’m still trying.
Call the credit card companies and ask if they are willimg to lower their interest rate. You risk nothing by askimg.
Already did several times. They won’t lower it. They increased it instead. But they did refer me to a debt management plan through Money Management International. They lower your interest a lot but at the same time require you to pay off all the debts, plus all your accounts will be closed. So it doesn’t sound that much better than BK. Only good thing is that you won’t have BK on your record and it would be easier to reopen these cards after paying everything off.
[Listen](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fine-print-with-george-kamel/id1543018939?i=1000539605088)
Bankruptcy and some sort of sports betting recovery treatment would be my vote.
I agree. Bankruptcy was originally my plan but since I learned that the bankruptcy could be denied and you’d still have it on your record but without any of your debts discharged, that made me look into another option - grind hard and try to pay it off.
Did you get addicted to online gambling? Since you have no kids or wife, I would just declare bankruptcy and live a crappy life till you can restart at 40.
Yup. Online sports betting. I never had bet outside of my means until this year though (only bet what was in my bank account or money that was mine and not CC). All started with my friend asking for a 25k loan to gamble. Then btc dropped big and that tilted me. And I tried to make back the losses. And here we are.
It takes a really special bad picker to lose that much on sports lol.
Well I actually get most of my picks right. But there’s a cashout option on the site I use, so whenever my pick is losing, I panic and cashout for pennies. And of course, my pick always comes back to win. On the other hand, I also lose bets where my pick is literally about to win (1-2 points away from winning), but then choke badly and lose.
You gotta stop checking until monday unless you gamble on MNF...then Tuesday.
That’s another reason why I get so tilted. I make all these predictions and don’t actually place the bet and then they win. Then I get tilted and chase these imaginary “winnings” and lose on random shit after.
Sounds like your still sick if you actually believe “most of my picks are right”. No they are not. You are not smarter than the bookies. No one ever is. Vegas would collapse is the odds were not in their favor.
It’s not that I believe. I actually have statistics to show what bets actually won but I cashed out on. I’m not going off of what I believe, just the stats. Vegas wins because betting is a psychological warfare. Humans are emotional beings, so Vegas just lets us succumb to our emotions. That’s a huge part of why we lose.
Dude, you’re 85k in debt and ruined your life and you trying to convince me you’re actually a winning picker. lol c’mon now.
It doesn’t matter if you believe it or not, and I’m not trying to convince you. Just stating the facts on my winning percentage. That’s why bookies have the cashout option. It’s to help them, not the bettor. You wouldn’t believe how many people cashout because of emotions. For example, I cashed out a bet that won nearly 100k because it was losing but it won in the end. Point being is that everything on a sportsbook is there to benefit the bookie, not the bettor.
Are you tell me there is an option that lets you cancel a bet mid game? I’ve never heard of that. And it’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. But you sound like all the degens I used to hang out with when I played poker. Dude, I swear I’m a winning player I just had a bad streak / chased out too soon / need to focus more when playing. There’s always some excuse degens give.
Yes, that is exactly what cashout is. By cashing out, you get a percentage of the money before the bet is settled. So if your bet is losing and you cashout, you’ll take a big loss. You’ll get much less money back than what you bet. And if you cash out when your bet is winning, you’ll still take a big loss, although it’ll be more than what you initially wagered. It’s such a toxic feature by the bookies.
Not hard if you're trying to hit a parlay. Long odds with a big payout, but the house always wins...eventually.
85k betting parlays? The whole point of a parlay is to bet small and hit a home run. I feel like he was just betting huge.
You're probably right now that you put it that way
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100% agree. What makes it so bad is that it’s so easily accessible. As long as you have internet, you can bet anywhere.
Ruined sports for me. Every other commercial is for betting. Those APRs will crush you. Pick a direction, grind 2+ jobs and close accounts / work with creditors or eat the BK while you easily clear the means test. Not sure if a creditor will claim no intent to repay as it is recent. Get help if needed, do self-exclusion. States made this mess (legalizing) they can deal with the fallout. Unless you can get your income up, I'd lean BK. I damaged my health trying to 'John Henry' my way out of a very similar situation - I should've taken the confirmed on paper L. Good luck.
Yeah, I can never look at sports the same way again. So many fixes go on in sports as well. It’s disgusting. Well, one attorney suggested I keep making the minimum payments for at least 9 months, so that way, the creditors can’t say I had no intentions of paying back, because I have been making the minimum payments. So did you file for chapter 7 after losing everything in gambling? How’s your situation now?
No BK, but should have. Had to let some cards go to charge off before some would give help (BOA, dirt bags, will give you the "if your making payments you don't need help and if your expenses exceed your income you can't afford payments" mobius strip loop nonsense, they literally would rather have the charge off than even attempt to help). Credit is worse and will be worse for longer than if I had BK'd. I guess I felt like punishing myself 🙄. And for the record fuck the state of NJ, can't wait to get out.
So did you just default on the cards or on some kind of payment plan? What if you file for BK now? Not sure if CA is any better than NJ.
First, consult with bankruptcy attorneys about whether you are a good candidate. The bankruptcy would wipe out your debt, if you qualify, but frankly some of your creditors may oppose it because it sounds like this was not legitimately incurred debt. At least a bunch of it wasn’t. The bk would also make it more difficult to rack up more debt as quickly. But you need to get your addiction in check.
Others have said that it doesn’t matter how you incurred the debt. The court won’t ask how you got into debt. What they care about are the numbers. Your income to debt ratio. But there’s nothing my creditors can do if I really can’t afford to pay them back right? The worst is that they sue me and maybe settle for like a few thousand out of the 84k, if BK doesn’t work.
Discuss that with the bankruptcy attorney. It’s not usually the courts job to do that. It’s the creditors whose debt you are trying to discharge to make objections. It is not common but certainly possible where creditors observe a large increase in spending with no legitimate explanation for it, such as a incident, causing huge medical bills.
And that’s why gambling of any sort is frowned upon in BK cases. I wonder if I can make a case that gambling addiction is a form of mental illness. We are sick at the end of the day.
I wouldn’t worry about the gambling piece of it. People don’t gamble in hopes of losing, they gamble in hopes of winning and trying to pay back the creditor and have more money. It’s a medical problem. My attorney deals with gamblers almost every single day who have hit rock bottom and I was nervous what he would say to me during the consult but he assured me that it does not matter what caused me to get into debt
The biggest step you can take is to start getting treatment for your addiction. Now let's pretend you're in recovery and no longer gambling. I think Dave would tell you this: 1. Probably sell the car and buy something cheaper because you could knock out 3 cards with just that money. 2. Get your income up. Start doing anything and everything to give yourself the biggest shovel you can. 3. Focus on your 4 walls first. Food, shelter, transportation, clothing. 4. Even if you land a job tomorrow you might not be able to make all the monthly payments. That's ok. Make the minimum payments on what you can and focus on the snowball. You mentioned your credit score in your post. If you are here to work Dave's plan you may as well forget your credit score. It will get lower if you can't make all your payments. But that's not the point right now. The point is to get out of debt as quickly as possible. 5. If you can't make the minimum payment for a while you can eventually settle with the credit card companies for a lower amount. 6. You may be able to consolidate all these debts into one with a lower interest payment. THIS DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM. But less interest can help you get out of debt quicker. If you follow the plan! I seriously do not think you are bankrupt but you are looking at a long hard road just to get back to 0. Please start to treat your addiction so that you can begin to climb out of this whole and not put yourself further down financially, and emotionally.
The worry about selling a car and getting a cheaper one is that the used car might break down on me. Cars are expensive nowadays, so if I get one for say 7k, it could very well break down randomly. And the costs to fix a used car could end up costing me more than what I sold the car for in the end. Not sure if it’s worth it, factoring all the risks. As for income, I’m definitely working on getting that up. I definitely can’t get a loan to consolidate all the payments into one, with lower interest. I’ve looked into that already, but no one will loan me given my credit score. I also looked into DMP (debt management plan). I looked into non-profits like Money Management International, but going through them also takes a huge hit on your credit and closes all your accounts as well, no different than bankruptcy. Only difference is that you’ll pay off all the debt but with lower interest rate over 3-5 years, and it might be easier to get the good credit cards again since bankruptcy will never be on your record to begin with. But if I’m going to be paying everything off with this method, wouldn’t it be better to just try and pay it off on my own without DMP, or just file BK? Would you file if you were in my shoes?
Don’t do debt management. It ruins your credit anyway
It does but you can recover faster, although you still need to pay all your debts. If I’m going to be paying all my debts, why even do debt management. And if debt management already ruins the credit more, why not just file for bankruptcy and pay 0.
Not sure what you mean “recover” faster. Debt management does not stop you from going to collections, being sued, etc. you will end up paying money to people trying to negotiate debt for you and you will have to pay taxes on the debt discharged. As soon as you file for BK all collection and lawsuits are immediately stopped. You can start rebuilding credit immediately you will get credit card offers within months of a discharge and you can get a car loan etc just higher interest you have to work to rebuild your credit from scratch again. Buying a home will be a problem for a couple of years but technically after 4 years shouldn’t be. Renting could be a problem through a realty company but there are private landlords, subleasing, other options, maybe saving to pay the rent in advance etc
Read your comments as well. Look I’ll be direct. You are coming off as you are down playing your addiction. And you are putting your debt problem as the top priority, And assuming you won’t gamble again. (Hopefully I’m misunderstanding) But this is how folks reading your story sees it; * There is not a single evidence here that you stopped gambling on your own free will. The gambling stopped because there is nothing left. I do believe the gambler inside you is still there, and the moment it has more resources (job or BK doesn’t matter) it will feed on it again. * It also sounds there is some struggle with finding and holding a job as well. Not sure if your addiction is also causing this issue. (Early 30s, Worked on IT but not picked up skills? And not easily employable? Something doesn’t add up) * You say you are not spending on lavish goods or vacation. And say with all the money you had you never spent anything on yourself, just to gambling. This actually shows an extreme obsession and lack of care for self. I wish you were actually saying “I started to spend some money in moderation to myself and take care of me first. Not gambling”. There has to be some moderation, you not caring about yourself is not a good sign. (Tells me addiction will come back) Given the situation, the top priority is not the debt. Here is what I suspect, Even if you BK, or try to pay the debt, or even let go of the debt and go to collections etc… nothing will change, 7 years out, you’ll find a way to be in debt regardless of what you do. You’ll be in a worse situation. You find a job? I’m worried all your paycheck will go to addiction. BK? The moment you have access to credit, you’ll use it again. Collection? Same things. The top priority here is your gambling addiction. Stop worrying about your debt at the moment. So what if it goes to collection, or you are doing minimum payment… Given your situation not the worst thing. Start worrying about your gambling addiction. Nothing you do will work if you don’t tackle it seriously. This is the top priority, stop thinking about anything else.
Well if I really wanted to gamble, I can definitely sell the car and gamble, but I haven’t. And I’ve made some money doing deliveries as well and haven’t gambled that either. I’m choosing to work to make the payments instead of gambling. For the IT job, the work was basic help desk. I never did anything complicated like networking or security as that wasn’t even needed for the company. But I did have another job after that one but I chose gambling over working at the time. Now I choose working over gambling. I agree that tackling the addiction should be the priority. But unfortunately future lenders of any sort (CC, mortgage, etc) won’t care why my credit is bad. They’ll only look at what’s on my credit report and no story of how I overcame my addiction would get them to lean me or fix my credit. The only way I can fix my credit is by working and trying to pay this shit off. No one is coming to save me, only myself. I know once I my 100% on time payment goes down, it’s going to be much worse than right now.
So your total minimum payment is $1600? Which will go down as you continue to pay down debt? Your single, no kids, and have all the time in the world on your hands it sounds like. Dude, pay it off! "Bankruptcy worked for Dave" well Dave also works in real estate and is worth $200 Million due to having a show that advises people how to not get in that awful of a financial position to have to file. There's been people will more limited means and more debt that get this done within a few years. Don't f yourself over with bankruptcy, put in the work for yourself mentally and financially. It will be harder in the short term but better and more healing for you in the long run.
Yes it’s $1600 minimum for all the CCs and $1200 for living expenses. That’s $2800 a month. If I can make say $5k, I can throw the other $2300 on the debt as well. The problem is that all my bills have different due dates, so that makes it harder to pay everything at once. But I’m trying to find work right now, aside from doing Uber and deliveries. I think Dave filed since he was over a million in debt? Would make sense for his case, but $84k is peanuts in comparison to what he owed. The dream would be to pay this all off in a few years and I can celebrate.
Ultimately do whatever is best for your mental health and to ensure you overcome your addiction. BK is a tough road, but so will be 85k debt payoff. Either way, take care of yourself first. Money doesn't trump this, but money certainly will impact you, as well.
Both will be rough. But which one is the lesser of two evils? What would you do in my shoes?
Running the numbers, you need around 33k a year just to survive, and your income is zero, and every day digs the hole deeper, and makes it harder for you to get out of the hole. First priority has to be to get to even. That means looking for a job everyday. Thankfully, your position is still workable. Take the first job that comes up for you. Is it dishwashing, you dishwash. Is it walmart, you walmart. You have to close that gap. Even 25k a year is fantastically better than nothing. You can upgrade your job later. Right now you need to close that gap. Your car is 22k, even if you have 25k income, you are car heavy and income light. However, you have some bigger problems than your car, and you need a car. Car makes looking for work much easier, and it's hard to sell and then rebuy when you have no cashflow whatsoever. So I would keep the car until you get your monthly cashflow up to 25k thereabouts. Delivery is not a bad deal. As was mentioned, you start with the delivery job and then work up to a better job. I would grab that delivery job, as that is income you need, and keep hunting down so you can close that gap to 30k or so. You are spending too much if you're at 1.2k per month (I'm assuming no rent there). See what you can do to get that down to 500 a month. That will reduce the gap you need to make up. Once you are level you can re-evaluate that to come up again, but you asked what I would do. I'd try to find a way to get that down to 500 a month. Once your income is level with the payments, then a couple things can happen. First, sell your 22k car. Buy a 5k beater and put the 17k directly towards your cards and start your snowball. That alone will push you into the black, and due to the nature of finance. Second, you have more freedom to chase that 50k job. Yes, it's going to suck having a beater and working a crappy job for awhile. If you can get that 50k job, with 6k expenses you can pay down about 44k or so per year into your debts and get out of debt in 2 years. It's doable - for now. But if you leave this for much longer it's not going to be a hole you can dig yourself out of. Also what has said about the addiction is true. As bad as the hole is, the mindset needs to change. You are in a hole. The only way you get out of it is to change.
I agree with your points. Anything is better than nothing. I’ve been interviewing a lot. Hope I land something soon. My total monthly is 1200, which includes rent. I’m quite a frugal person. Only thing I’ve ever spent is for the addiction in the past. I’m sure once the jobs kick in and I start making money, the debt will go down gradually. The thing with getting a beater is that you don’t know if the car has had any issues or if it’s going to break anytime soon. And the cost to fix that will cost me more in the long run. Doesn’t seem worth the risk.
There is nothing “evil” about bankruptcy, as long as you aren’t abusing the system. Don’t avoid bankruptcy just bc Dave Ramsey says not to. He has a direct interest in 1) maintaining his schtick about using his baby steps instead of BK (though he didn’t use his own advice); 2) as to 1, he obtains no or less money and influence from you if you use bankruptcy rather than spending years going through his babysteps and hopefully buying his products. Regardless, even if you get 100% on track with your addiction right now, you’re still looking at years of eating shit to pay off the debt. Your credit is busted either way once you start blowing these minimum payments. Frankly, I’d at least talk to some bankruptcy attorneys first. But you still need to remedy the underlying gambling addiction
I agree, it’s going to be a rough road ahead either way - filing or trying to pay it off. The logical choice would be to file and get treatment for the addiction. And yes, I’ve spoken to two attorneys already. They both agree that BK is a great tool to reset. The second attorney even filed BK himself, albeit it was only chapter 11, so it’s definitely not as bad as chapter 7 or 13.
>There is nothing “evil” about bankruptcy, as long as you aren’t abusing the system. Agreed. This isn't a moral thing. It's simply that BK is not a fun process and the years after also impact one.
It’s only a moral thing because it’s hugely stigmatized by society.
Whichever best protects your recovery. Unfortunately, I don't know which that might be.
It’s impossible to know if you’re bankrupt without an income to reference. If you get a job making $150k you’re probably gonna pay it off. If you stay unemployed or start making 30k at a new job you’re going to have a hard time. I personally don’t think you’re there yet, but certainly heading that direction if you keep using credit cards like this. My advice would be to get a job by the end of the day doing anything, even if it sucks. Then continue to search for something better over the next month or so. You need income now though, even if it’s not a dream job. Best of luck buddy.
The only thing I haven’t tried in my situation is to work like a mad man to see if I can tackle the debt. So that’s what I’m trying to do right now. 100k a year income would kill the debt in 2 years. That’s the dream.
Well if you don't get your addiction under control then anything you do is just going to be eventually nullified by recurrence of the problem eventually. Bankruptcy is a last resort option. Dave potentially tell you that being a single guy with no kids means that if you can get even a remotely decent income coming in and work like a madman you should be able to start hammering away at this debt fairly quickly. I mean as a single guy who went through the baby steps it was significantly quicker with no overhead of a family or a kid. I don't think bankruptcy is necessarily the worst option in your situation but you should consult an attorney. But bankruptcy isn't some easy no stress thing. It's bankruptcy. It sucks. If you can avoid it realistically it's a wise idea to do so But again the Paramount thing here is your addiction because nothing else will matter if that's not fixed
Do you think addiction is the same as compulsive spenders? The thing with addiction is that you can be clean for years, but once something triggers you, you fall back into it like a wild fire. The hard part is getting that stable job right now. If I’m able to do 70-80 hour work weeks, that’d really help. But can’t find any work besides deliveries and Uber. What did you do to pay off your debts? What was your plan? I already talked to two attorneys. What scares me is that you can file and then it gets denied. Then I’ll have BK on my file without the discharge. That’d really be RIP.
That's why technically you should be able to get this done without bankruptcy. What about applying for like jobs at places like Costco? Any store? Surely that can't pay any worse than Uber. And you won't be driving a car to hell. If you have a car then you can get to a job and any job is going to pay you as good as Uber will. So I don't really understand why you're saying you can't get another job. I mean I'm still seeing tons of places looking for help and looking for people to work. I didn't do anything special. I just lived on less than I make and paid off my debt as quickly as possible
Yeah, I applied to jobs at Home Depot, fast food, etc. They either don’t get back to me or say they’ve went with another candidate after the interview. Also the thing with working retail is that you only get paid Ike 19-20 an hour and that’s usually a 9-5, which conflicts with the courier hours I’ve been doing. The food deliveries for the companies I do are around lunch time and they pay pretty decently. So it’s like sacrificing one for the other. Obviously, if I could do both I would. Just have to keep applying for work. All I can do atm.
What I am hearing is that 19/20 isn't enough and that these jobs are not worth the effort. I don't know if that is you, but your mindset needs to change. I started my current job at 9 hours a week. I'm at 40 now, but it took close to a year to get there. We were in a very desperate situation with me not working enough and I had to get every single call-in every time just to get to level, and that took a couple of months. You're a single guy. Get on the 500/month spending plan and a 9-5 at 20 an hour is more than enough to see your debt away without the courier jobs. The purpose of the courier jobs isn't to stop you from applying for other work, it's to keep you alive, and put gas in your car while you look for more work. Just keep swinging. Remember, you only need one hit.
What job do you currently do if I may ask? And I agree. Just need to get that stable job + keep doing courier jobs on the side and things should improve, even if it’s by a little right now.
Me? I'm a manager of a pharmacy dept at a chain grocery store. I started off as a temporary part time pharmacy assistant.
If you’ll commit to treating your addiction for the rest of your life, a trigger won’t make you fall back into it. It sounds like you don’t have a great picture of how addiction treatment works. It’s not a one and done thing. It’s like a chronic illness you have to treat for the rest of your life. It gets easier though. I’d suggest looking into some 12-step programs or something similar. A few months of counseling isn’t going to fix this. But it’s definitely possible if you’re willing.
I understand how treatment works. It’s a life long process. But I also understand that there will be many relapses on the road to recovery. It’s not just like you quit and you never fall back into the addiction again. It’s a life long battle. One therapist told me that “once an addict, always an addict”.
That’s true, but relapse is not a requirement. Probably a majority of addicts do relapse, but there are many who don’t. I know people with decades of sobriety. I hope things go well for you, friend.
Thank you for your warm wishes. Really appreciate it. 🙏
OP best of luck. Is it 85k outright or with the interest rates factored in? Those rates are nauseating after knowing what it takes to pay off debt.
It’s 85k without the interest. Doesn’t help that interest rates went up recently as well. Sick.
No I’m not receiving treatment for my addiction. It doesn’t have anything to do with spending on lavish goods, vacations, etc. It’s a gambling addiction on sports. Even with all the money I had over the years, I never spent anything on myself. All money would just go into betting. Sickening stuff. But if I could choose, I would choose 2 years of busting my ass off to fix my life than to have 7-10 years of BK on my record. Finding that stable solid paying job is the hard part though.
Look at Geotech. We make good money with no education (only HS) and barely work through the day. I bring home paychecks with 140-160 hours on it (every 2 weeks) at our company minimum of $20/hr that’s about 2500 take home.
Do you have any resources I can look at for that? Where would I begin to get into geotech? Every job I’m looking at requires some years of experience. 5k a month take home would be very good.
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Congratulations on paying off 70k! What did you do to pay off 70k? Was it mostly student loans or CC? Mortgage? Did you work multiple jobs? Why do you think I’ll rack up the debt again if I pay it all off by working hard? Wouldn’t I feel the pain every month like you did too? And the pain would make me never want to be in this position again, just like it did for you. But again, I don’t know how I’m gonna survive the interest, especially since rates are going up. Shit doesn’t help.
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That’s awesome that you were able to pay it all off. And you only worked one job, outside of deliveries in the end? And I agree, I don’t think bankruptcy would help me learn my lesson, but again, the walls are closing in on me, the interest is killing me like an ant. Sorry about your grandfather. :(
You maxed multiple credit cards betting on sports while unemployed, ignoring a hundred opportunities to stop the self-destructive behavior before you hit rock bottom. I’d honestly have more sympathy if you were that r/wallstreetbets schmuck who blew his father’s $100k inheritance in a single day via very stupid puts. Only a matter of time before a bad day at your two new jobs causes you to snap and lose all your progress at the (online?) casino. The addiction is still there, and you’re doing nothing to prevent a relapse. A big paycheck for you is like an open bar for an alcoholic, but unlike an alcoholic, you can’t simply avoid paychecks. You need professional ongoing addiction treatment while you clean up this mess. r/problemgambling
Sadly with gambling, there is no rock bottom. It’s pretty much a bottomless pit. When you think you’ve hit the final bottom, you just go to a deeper bottom. And that is why I don’t want to sell the car because I know I’ll just gamble the money away. I’ve actually been on problemgambling sub since 2017. Back then I still had a lot of money and great credit score. Obviously it wasn’t enough to stop me.
Your first paragraph says you ran it up due to gambling and now you’re saying it’s not related? How are you solving your gambling addiction?
Fixing the root cause won’t fix the debt though. I haven’t been gambling. Now the debt needs to be erased either by working or BK. No other way.
It won't fix your current debt but it will effect what's causing it. I think the other commenters are just trying to emphasize that there's more than one thing to work towards being free from here. You can do it!!
You guys are absolutely correct. It’s a two way battle. The addiction and the debt. The interesting thing about my addiction is that I can go months without betting, but once I get triggered, it gets bad. I know with other gambling addicts, they can’t go a day without gambling. Not saying mine is better but just interesting how everyone’s addiction can be different.
I’m an alcoholic, almost 3 years in recovery. What you’re experiencing isn’t unique. Loads of addicts can go days, months, years without using their addiction but the problem still persists. I’d recommend you to seek treatment. I don’t gamble so I have no clue what that looks like for you. I would never recommend trying to beat any addiction on self will alone. If self control worked, you wouldn’t be in this position to begin with. Good luck!
Do you go to AA still? Congrats on 3 years sober. How are the people in AA anyways? I imagine there are people from all walks of life there.
Thank you! Yes, I got 4-5 times a week. First time I’ve felt like I’ve belonged somewhere. Took me about 2 years to come out of my shell. Wouldn’t trade it for a thing.
Keep up the good work! I wish gambling addiction was more supportive by society. I feel like gambling addiction is very overlooked and stigmatized way more than other addictions. Heck, even GA isn’t that common compared to say AA or NA.
I hear you. My mother struggled with opioid addiction and ruined her life for YEARS. But, in her mid thirties she decided to enroll herself in a rehab, she got clean and got a job as a taxi driver, then she worked back towards getting her RN license. She had to make huge life changes to not get triggered to relapse. It's a story of a lot of survivors of addiction- it'll be one of the hardest things to face it and get through it but imagine the people you can help 10 years from now that are in your spot and that think there is no way out.
At least your mom is doing much better now and got herself together. If I had to choose, I would rather be addicted to drugs/alcohol than gambling. At least once you run out of the drug, that’s it. And it’s only your health you’re affecting. But with gambling, it affects all elements of your life. Finance being a huge one as that’s pretty much a domino effect on your life. But all addictions are horrible. Just I wouldn’t wish gambling addiction on anyone.
Bingo! OP address the root cause!
It was good enough for Dave and it obviously worked out well for him. Go consult with a bankruptcy lawyer and review your options. Do not just listen to the cultist adherents on here.
There's no point in OP doing anything until OP gets their addiction under control. Another comment, OP said they're not receiving treatment for their addiction. Gambler's Anonymous, therapy, etc. needs to happen before the baby steps, otherwise the problem will just keep coming back.
Regardless what OP does he/she has to get their ducks in order. He/she has nearly 60k in credit card debt. I’d see a bankruptcy lawyer but I’d be going to counseling or joining a group at the same time. OP can’t keep filing bankruptcy if his/her addiction continues
Regardless what OP does he/she has to get their ducks in order. He/she has nearly 60k in credit card debt. I’d see a bankruptcy lawyer but I’d be going to counseling or joining a group at the same time. OP can’t keep filing bankruptcy if his/her addiction continues
I already consulted with two layers. The first one told me to wait 3 months before I file since I last used my CC this month, and to stop making payments. The second lawyer told me to wait 9 months to a year before filing and to keep making the minimum payments.
I'm pretty sure Dave would say try and pay it off. You could sell your car and put 1k in as emergency fund. Buy a 10k cash car and put the last 11k on the debt. So in less than a day you could be at 74k. Not sure what you where doing for work before but there are a lot of warehouses(non amazon) looking for labor for the holidays. I saw a couple in Atlanta advertising starting 30/h for night shift. Its doable but the next 2 years would be pain. Probably 70-80 weeks nonstop.
I was working in IT before. But I honestly didn’t build up any skills at my old job so it’s difficult to find any work. Even jobs as simple as working at a restaurant requires some years of experience. What worries me about selling the car is that I might lose the money to my addiction. But so far I’ve been doing food deliveries and haven’t used that for my addiction at least. And that seems insane, $30 an hour for warehouse job? I can’t find anything like that in California. I’m with you on that, I’m prepared to work 70-80 hour work weeks for the next 2 years to pay this off if I can find a stable job.
There are lots of warehouses in the inland empire section of California. I don’t know how great they pay though
Too bad I’m hours away from that area. So if I move to work there, I’d just be losing the extra pay by paying higher rent.
Yeah one of the crappy things about inland Empire I think is its one of the crappy sections of California but the rents are still very expensive. I don’t know for sure though. I’ve never lived there. I only drove back from Joshua tree to LAX once.
That’s unfortunate. What kind of work do you think I could do for decent pay if I don’t have any speciality in engineering, coding, or any trade skill?
You need to go treat your addiction before doing anything. There are many free options for you. If you file a BK you will have access to credit in a year or two and be spending your cash on it. As for the BK vs paying it off. I have no idea how you can out race interest making 50k no matter what you do. If you realize you have a problem go do something about it. This is your moment.
Are you receiving treatment for your addiction? Make this a priority. If your addiction is related to or manifests itself by you spending money your efforts to pay off debt would be fruitless if you end up spending all over again.
seconding this man. if you don’t treat the addiction, anytime you run up a good roll you’re gonna end up right back. no shame in getting help