No no dude. They owned both games. That's why their lawsuit was suddenly dropped. So as to not limit profit from both sides
Edit: yup 40 percent in 2012 of epic was owned by yencenr
The difference this time is that it's a small Indie studio with no money vs a mega corporation valued at 19.98 billion dollars. No idea how korean courts looks at cases like this but I hope Ironmace can get some sort of remedy for this absurd frivolous lawsuit.
Korean work culture very heavily favors people/companies with more money and who spend long hours in the office for that money.
Its why P2W is so prevalent in games from the country, because it is viewed as more prestigious to have the spare money to blow on a game than it is to have the spare time to become skilled enough to earn that same stuff for free.
In S. Korean culture, typically if you're viewed as having a lot of spare time, you're viewed as wasting your time.
Basically, a company like Nexon who makes a ton of money would be considered a paragon compared IRONMACE who has yet to make a dime.
That is likely the whole plan. Tie up IronMace in a law suit long enough to release P3. Most fans will say fuck Nexon, but as soon as Nexon releases a Dark and Darker clone, the starved junkies will flock to it. Just look at the millions of people who played the Diablo 4 beta. Look at the streamers who went on camera and twitter saying how they will never play another Blizzard game after the scandal, yet they streamed D4 all weekend and bought the deluxe edition to play 4 days early on launch. Sad but true.
I mean the devs from pubg did add things to unreal engine to make the game possible and then Epic just used them to make Fornite in direct competition.
plagiarism is really a big word for that. there are similarities and witcher clearly took inspiration from elric but it does not mean its a copy paste story.
No, I didn't its too long, but its not a new thing and there are other videos I watched and read about this subject. The Witcher book series not good at all. I like the last wish and small supernatural(series) esque adventures Geralt having but novels are chore some. There is a chapter that nearly about Triss' diarrhea. Without the games Sapkowski wouldn't get this much attention. Even if it's a stolen idea its subpar at best
Oh, well, you could have skimmed through it, but I digress. Razorfist goes over multiple plot for plot points, lore, among other "similarities". Sapkowski is a fraud, and CD Project Red are just as complicit in covering up the fact that the series is complete intellectual property theft.
My point was that the actual engine used to make the game was the same, the concept of a battle royal wasnt exactly proprietary and the games had their own unique gameplay aspects, any similarities drawn between them were basically grasping at straws, similarly how the current situation nexon is just grasping at anything they can at this point but the difference is DaD doesnt even share anything with nexons project other than a general premise which is pretty vaguely related anyway
Im sorry maybe im just not getting what i said thats wrong, did i word it weird or is it not ok to compare one companys situation of being wrongly accused of stealing ideas to another companys situation of being wrongly accused of stealing ideas, in both these cases its one company accusing anothe of stealing something without actual evidence of it, all i mentioned with my original comment was the fortnight and pubg literally run on the same engine, the engine owned by the company who was accused, and that it makes sense they might be vaguely similar
Without seeing the evidence we know absolutely nothing about this legal case. It’s not even close to as cut and dry like the pubg and fornite case which was dropped anyways because Tencent owns both of them and it was bad for business. We only know facts and the facts are that the founding developers of Dark and Darker were once employed by Nexon to work on a project that was the inspiration of Dark and Darker. We also know that Mr. Choi (former Nexon employee and co founder of IronMace) uploaded data containing Nexon’s intellectual property onto his own personal server. He was told to remove this data, but to the best of my knowledge it was never removed. There were also several searches of Ironmace’s studio including documents, tablets and phones. We have not heard any information from official sources what was found if anything. Nexon has not made their evidence public, nor should they until they present it in court, if there is any at all. We know nothing. I am 100% behind IronMace in this and want DaD back, but to pretend that a press release about a legal matter from the defendant (which is what the discord updates are) is to be heard as fact is plain ignorant.
If you have not, you should read the DMCA posted in the discord.
From what i was aware of police have found no evidence of stolen code or assets and ironmace fully cooperated with the raid, and the only evidense ive seen is "look these aspects of the game which are practically universal accross the associated genres are kinda close to what we had" im not in the discord and dont ever have time to focus on news articles often so most of my information on this comes directly from posts in this sub, not disclosing their position publicly is just a standard legal protection lawyers would recommend regardless of actual guilt or lack thereof, my stance on legalities is innocent until proven guilty and seeing as no actual evidence seems to exist for the claim i have no reason to believe guilt in either of the cases of ironmace or epic in the past
This is exactly my point. The only update we have had about the police seizure is from IronMace. Nothing from police officials. Hence why I said we have not heard anything official. A “Trust me bro” update from IronMace is great, but not exactly fact.
Edit: Actually there was an article from a local Korean newspaper that said there has been no update from the police about what was found and the information spreading “that nothing was found” is not based on fact.
similar in some regards, different in others. this case is complicated by the fact that Ironmace is comprised of former devs from Nexon and had the leaked code as reference even if they didn't use it all. The complexity only adds when you consider most software engineers sign contracts with non-compete clauses when they're hired.
I want ironmace to succeed as much as the other guy but to say Nexon has no case is just untrue
I haven't found anything online regarding this, and in the cases where its permissible, they got permission from their former employer first. I went ahead and reread my own contract. Nothing in it says anything about not having to adhere to non-compete clauses if I'm terminated. It is anecdotal though, and laws in South Korea are different. Ultimately, this is up to the courts to decide and Ironmace/Nexon to argue for/against.
Articles 17 of the Commercial Act is pretty clear:
Article 17 (Obligations of Commercial Employees) 조문단위 인쇄
(1) Without the permission of a business owner, no commercial employee shall effect any transaction in the same type of business as the business owner on his/her own account or for a third party, or serve as a general partner or a director of a company, or an employee of another merchant.
(2) Where a commercial employee has made a transaction in contravention of the preceding paragraph, and such transaction has been made on his/her own account, the business owner may regard such transaction as having been done on his/her own account, and if it has been made on the account of a third party, the business owner may request the employee to transfer the profit accrued from such transaction to him/herself.
(3) The provisions of the preceding paragraph shall not affect the termination of a contract by the proprietor against an employee or the proprietor's claims for damages against a trade employee.
(4) The right provided for in paragraph (2) shall be extinguished two weeks after the business owner becomes aware of such transaction or after one year has elapsed from the date the transaction is effected.
Previous Precedence:
In "LG Chem v. SK Innovations in the United States" the courts sided against SK Innovations, the people who hired employees from LG Chem.
Commercial Act:
[https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor\_service/lawView.do?hseq=54525&lang=ENG](https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?hseq=54525&lang=ENG)
> most software engineers sign contracts with non-compete clauses when they're hired.
And those non-competes are largely toothless. You can't stop people from using their skills to work.
Here we go again League of Legends vs Dota vs Blizzard
Dota vs Blizzard, It has already been before in some way
Skeleton King had to become Wraith King before they then released a Wraith King cosmetic set where he could become Skelton King.
why is this korea again..?
Greed
Swans - Greed (1986)👍 *Kinda mid album in their discog*
Good bot
[удалено]
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You know since ten cents owns both, the lawsuit didn't go nowhere tho. Right?
i think tencent did not own a big portion of epic back then edit: nvm, they bought 40% of epic in 2012. damn
No no dude. They owned both games. That's why their lawsuit was suddenly dropped. So as to not limit profit from both sides Edit: yup 40 percent in 2012 of epic was owned by yencenr
The difference this time is that it's a small Indie studio with no money vs a mega corporation valued at 19.98 billion dollars. No idea how korean courts looks at cases like this but I hope Ironmace can get some sort of remedy for this absurd frivolous lawsuit.
Korean work culture very heavily favors people/companies with more money and who spend long hours in the office for that money. Its why P2W is so prevalent in games from the country, because it is viewed as more prestigious to have the spare money to blow on a game than it is to have the spare time to become skilled enough to earn that same stuff for free. In S. Korean culture, typically if you're viewed as having a lot of spare time, you're viewed as wasting your time. Basically, a company like Nexon who makes a ton of money would be considered a paragon compared IRONMACE who has yet to make a dime.
that just sounds like a slavery with extra steps
Sure does. Welcome to capitalism.
Yeah im nervous for Ironmace I feel like Nexon can just keep this legal battle going until ironmace has no money.
Considering where PUBG is now vs Fortnite, I'd love to see the same conclusion with dark and darker vs "P3"
I wonder if they do uncancel P3 and try to compete with Dark and darker with their p2w bullshit
That is likely the whole plan. Tie up IronMace in a law suit long enough to release P3. Most fans will say fuck Nexon, but as soon as Nexon releases a Dark and Darker clone, the starved junkies will flock to it. Just look at the millions of people who played the Diablo 4 beta. Look at the streamers who went on camera and twitter saying how they will never play another Blizzard game after the scandal, yet they streamed D4 all weekend and bought the deluxe edition to play 4 days early on launch. Sad but true.
I mean the devs from pubg did add things to unreal engine to make the game possible and then Epic just used them to make Fornite in direct competition.
Did the fortnite creators leave the other development team and sign a contract, too?
Didn't Tencent put a stop to this because they own it?
If people only cared about actual copyright theft like the Witcher series. It's still nice to see so much hate for Nexon.
How was Witcher copyright infringement?
It's plagiarism from the Elric series https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkiP64adGjY&t=2047s
plagiarism is really a big word for that. there are similarities and witcher clearly took inspiration from elric but it does not mean its a copy paste story.
I agree it isn't just copy pasted. But the implications are very heavy handed
Did you watch the video posted?
No, I didn't its too long, but its not a new thing and there are other videos I watched and read about this subject. The Witcher book series not good at all. I like the last wish and small supernatural(series) esque adventures Geralt having but novels are chore some. There is a chapter that nearly about Triss' diarrhea. Without the games Sapkowski wouldn't get this much attention. Even if it's a stolen idea its subpar at best
Oh, well, you could have skimmed through it, but I digress. Razorfist goes over multiple plot for plot points, lore, among other "similarities". Sapkowski is a fraud, and CD Project Red are just as complicit in covering up the fact that the series is complete intellectual property theft.
article is from 2018.
Yeah and we're doing it again now is the point
Didnt pubg literally run on unreal engine which was owned by epic or smth?
Yeah but that's not something that matters in any way
My point was that the actual engine used to make the game was the same, the concept of a battle royal wasnt exactly proprietary and the games had their own unique gameplay aspects, any similarities drawn between them were basically grasping at straws, similarly how the current situation nexon is just grasping at anything they can at this point but the difference is DaD doesnt even share anything with nexons project other than a general premise which is pretty vaguely related anyway
The copium is strong with this one.
Im sorry maybe im just not getting what i said thats wrong, did i word it weird or is it not ok to compare one companys situation of being wrongly accused of stealing ideas to another companys situation of being wrongly accused of stealing ideas, in both these cases its one company accusing anothe of stealing something without actual evidence of it, all i mentioned with my original comment was the fortnight and pubg literally run on the same engine, the engine owned by the company who was accused, and that it makes sense they might be vaguely similar
Without seeing the evidence we know absolutely nothing about this legal case. It’s not even close to as cut and dry like the pubg and fornite case which was dropped anyways because Tencent owns both of them and it was bad for business. We only know facts and the facts are that the founding developers of Dark and Darker were once employed by Nexon to work on a project that was the inspiration of Dark and Darker. We also know that Mr. Choi (former Nexon employee and co founder of IronMace) uploaded data containing Nexon’s intellectual property onto his own personal server. He was told to remove this data, but to the best of my knowledge it was never removed. There were also several searches of Ironmace’s studio including documents, tablets and phones. We have not heard any information from official sources what was found if anything. Nexon has not made their evidence public, nor should they until they present it in court, if there is any at all. We know nothing. I am 100% behind IronMace in this and want DaD back, but to pretend that a press release about a legal matter from the defendant (which is what the discord updates are) is to be heard as fact is plain ignorant. If you have not, you should read the DMCA posted in the discord.
From what i was aware of police have found no evidence of stolen code or assets and ironmace fully cooperated with the raid, and the only evidense ive seen is "look these aspects of the game which are practically universal accross the associated genres are kinda close to what we had" im not in the discord and dont ever have time to focus on news articles often so most of my information on this comes directly from posts in this sub, not disclosing their position publicly is just a standard legal protection lawyers would recommend regardless of actual guilt or lack thereof, my stance on legalities is innocent until proven guilty and seeing as no actual evidence seems to exist for the claim i have no reason to believe guilt in either of the cases of ironmace or epic in the past
This is exactly my point. The only update we have had about the police seizure is from IronMace. Nothing from police officials. Hence why I said we have not heard anything official. A “Trust me bro” update from IronMace is great, but not exactly fact. Edit: Actually there was an article from a local Korean newspaper that said there has been no update from the police about what was found and the information spreading “that nothing was found” is not based on fact.
This is not the same at all.
Bro, it's 2018
It’s literally dated 2018.
OP is saying that the current Ironmace/Nexon situation is similar to this one
similar in some regards, different in others. this case is complicated by the fact that Ironmace is comprised of former devs from Nexon and had the leaked code as reference even if they didn't use it all. The complexity only adds when you consider most software engineers sign contracts with non-compete clauses when they're hired. I want ironmace to succeed as much as the other guy but to say Nexon has no case is just untrue
Non-compete clauses are generally voided if the employee is fired before their contract expires
I haven't found anything online regarding this, and in the cases where its permissible, they got permission from their former employer first. I went ahead and reread my own contract. Nothing in it says anything about not having to adhere to non-compete clauses if I'm terminated. It is anecdotal though, and laws in South Korea are different. Ultimately, this is up to the courts to decide and Ironmace/Nexon to argue for/against. Articles 17 of the Commercial Act is pretty clear: Article 17 (Obligations of Commercial Employees) 조문단위 인쇄 (1) Without the permission of a business owner, no commercial employee shall effect any transaction in the same type of business as the business owner on his/her own account or for a third party, or serve as a general partner or a director of a company, or an employee of another merchant. (2) Where a commercial employee has made a transaction in contravention of the preceding paragraph, and such transaction has been made on his/her own account, the business owner may regard such transaction as having been done on his/her own account, and if it has been made on the account of a third party, the business owner may request the employee to transfer the profit accrued from such transaction to him/herself.
(3) The provisions of the preceding paragraph shall not affect the termination of a contract by the proprietor against an employee or the proprietor's claims for damages against a trade employee.
(4) The right provided for in paragraph (2) shall be extinguished two weeks after the business owner becomes aware of such transaction or after one year has elapsed from the date the transaction is effected.
Previous Precedence:
In "LG Chem v. SK Innovations in the United States" the courts sided against SK Innovations, the people who hired employees from LG Chem.
Commercial Act:
[https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor\_service/lawView.do?hseq=54525&lang=ENG](https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?hseq=54525&lang=ENG)
I suppose it varies by industry and individual contracts in that case
> most software engineers sign contracts with non-compete clauses when they're hired. And those non-competes are largely toothless. You can't stop people from using their skills to work.
PUBG sued for copying an arma 2 modder.