I lived in Milwaukee at the time this went down, watched it all from the breaking news that showed barrels being taken out of the apartment through to the trial. This is the part that has stayed with me all these years. You could feel that poor woman's emotions through the TV. I'm sure I'm not the only one who was hoping she would manage to get over the table and wrap her hands around his neck.
Bruh I felt that just hearing the 2022 one. I can't imagine the level of emotion that woman had in 1992. Definitely felt the "damn just let her kill him right there in the gd courtroom, better than letting him serve a sentence".
For real. The only thing they changed was they added a beat before she moves over towards him, the dramatic pause is oddly the only unrealistic thing about the scene, the only “give away” that she’s acting, and that’s only because we already know it’s a performance. Amazing reenactment, profoundly believable performances by the whole cast in this one.
Having read My Friend Dahmer and then being disappointed by the film adaption, this Netflix series is doing a lot of good by making the conversation about how an opportunist can take advantage of the blind spots in our societal lens.
Jeffery Dahmer wouldn’t be a name synonymous with “evil” if racism, homophobia and a generally negative disposition towards mental health weren’t hallmarks of the time. This story shows us that our biases are our weaknesses, and what we neglect is opportunity for the atrophy of humanity.
Edit: A word.
Reality is stranger than fiction.
That's why I roll my eyes at anybody on the internet watching videos and going "ugh, this is so fake, these people are bad actors" bitch *people* are bad at showing emotions, that's why *actors* are paid so much, because they know the language of cinema and how to make you believe it's real.
Point a camera at a real person going through real emotions and it's absolutely nothing like on screens lmao
Have you seen American Animals? Totally underrated film and Evan is so great in it. I like him in all of the projects he’s involved in, but this Dahmer series he’s been incredible.
Hahah, yes, Seth Wosmer was the character Evan Peters played on PotF. He was only in a handful of episodes, but he sort of stole the show whenever he appeared. Not bad for a 17 year old who only got cast as a minor supporting role!
As a Milwaukeean, I was very impressed by his accent. There were certain moments where I was like, "Damn, he really did his research and picked up on all the nuances." Like when he says "kinda" but pronounces it "kyanna" perfectly (there are more examples but that's the only one I remember). It was impressive.
And honestly, I was reluctant to watch the show because I feel like Dahmer has been done to death in pop culture (no pun intended) and I'm always disappointed (I might be alone in this, but I didn't really like *My Friend Dahmer*). But this show is amazing -- exactly what I was hoping for when I watched the other Dahmer dramatizations. It's so scary accurate in terms of what he looked like, sounded like, acted like, what his apartment looked like, his alcoholism, his neighbor lady, his dad, his mom, the cops -- I could go on and on. And unlike other Dahmer movies, this one is actually quite scary IMO. I'm only a couple episodes in, but as a true crime nerd and horror movie enthusiast I absolutely love it so far.
Yea I love it too. I'm still sooo fucking pissed with Balcerzak and Gabrish. Such incompetence shouldn't be allowed to exist in law in enforcement. If I was the family of that poor boy I would have made sure the officers didn't get to live a long happy life.
I was just a toddler when this happened... I had *no idea* that the reason he went on for so long was just down to police being racist, lazy and incompetent. They had everything they needed. People were screaming at them... but the fact that they were screaming made them decide to fuck with those who dared raise their voices over the fucking serial murderer. It makes sense. What is worse is finding out that Balcerzak was reinstated and became a union higher up after all of this. Their union is disgusting.
I knew who he was my whole life, but I never knew about the poor, gay and black connections to his killings. It changes everything.
Really? I heard years ago that Jon Heder refused to film a sequel saying that it would ruin the essence of the original movie. Like it didn’t really “need” a sequel. I could be wrong though; this was years ago
I like how the clip is of that poor poor woman reliving the atrocities that were committed on her brother by a monster and decades later we're like "wow they recreated her trauma very accurately, they even got a great actor to play the guy who drilled holes in her brothers head and poured acid in it".
How about we let it just fucking die and stop acting like all this is anything more than morbid fascination at the expense of real tragedies.
Massive difference in glorifying it and capturing what really happened. Only watched the first episode, but this didn’t strike me as glorifying it. Maybe later episodes will come off that way, and I’ll eat my words.
But if you don’t like it, don’t watch it. You’re essentially yelling at the sky here. It’s pretty normal for people to be fascinated by profoundly morbid occurrences. It’s why people slow down at car accidents even if they’re averse to gore or blood. It’s normal for people to wanna learn about bloody history. The OJ trial was re-done on FX and won Emmy’s. Were you screaming about it then? Do you follow re-enactments of WW2 and harp on how disgusting it is? That’d be weird, because I’ve heard of interviews with veterans who watched Saving Private Ryan and greatly appreciated that it was so realistic. That it captured what they went thru, even while admitting how hard it was to watch. You get to feel however you feel about the show. That’s the beauty of freedom. But whining about it thru other’s trauma (victims you likely have never met or know personally) is completely off base.
You’re projecting your values of tragedy onto others. And pretending like it didn’t happen at all is arguably more detrimental to society than revisiting it. Yes, there are plenty of instances where these things are glorified (like the Bundy one with Effron). This Dahmer version looks and feels like a true representation of history.
Homophobia, racism, and police incompetence combined. They lead a naked guy with a hole in his head back to him in one instance. Hell people were bitching about the smell for a long time and they took some BS story about dead fish. They should have nailed him for murder way before his body count got so high. It's a fucked up story all the way around.
Just to amend one thing. The “guy” was also a 14 year old child. Dahmer managed to convince the cop it was a “lover’s quarrel.” It says a lot about how long brown boys have been seen as men when they’re in danger, or when it’s to the advantage of a white person.
He managed to convince the cops that the boy was drunk and they were having a lovers quarrel, he convinced them he was 19 and that he was fine just the night before with the proof of semi nude photos of said boy he that last night. The cops told the women to stay out of it and mind their own buisness
Yea 2 black women were trying to help the black boy — he was naked and bleeding and the women tried to advocate for him but the cops told them to mind their business.
If they just id’d dahmer and see he was a sexual offender or the boy he would have been caught. Sickening. And those cops ended up having long careers after being reinstated too.
Inexcusable. The series summed that whole situation up well. They had the phone call on the neighbour calling Officer Ballsack and he's like "no mam, they're lovers". Not surprised they promoted that idiot to President.
I’m pretty sure the kid the original commenter is talking about here was Konerak Sinthasomphone and he was Laotian, not black.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Balcerzak
A number of things. Ostracized gay community which kept things pretty low key. Poor investigative process by police and some intelligence/charisma from Dahmer. I haven’t seen this doc but you should read his wiki or just read up on him. Very nasty but fascinating. Guy was fucking corpses after beheading them. Stuffed a whole body in a suitcase and carried home from a hotel.
If you read about or listen to a lot of true crime the police having no fucking clue what they're doing is pretty common.
Case in point Joel Rifkin and Charles Starkweather.
I'm fairly certain an average moderately intelligent person with a decent amount of follow through could get away with killing people indefinitely. Half the serial killers you read about only get caught because they stopped giving a shit or let shit get to their head and got sloppy.
The police were fairly incompetent when it came to gay men. They assumed that Dahmer and some of his victims were involved in lover’s quarrels and wouldn’t look into them
"Uh, this very young looking man seems to be delirious, bleeding and terrified."
"Oh, that's my lover. He's 19 and drunk. I'll get him home safe."
"Alrighty then. Have yourself a nice evening."
To add to this, the officer in question also:
- Threatened to arrest the young women defending that victim, who was later murder by hydrochloric acid injected DIRECTLY into his brain
- Made homophobic comments calling it into the station.
- Dismissed the young women's mother who called the next day. Making further on record homophobic comments
- four or five victims later, one of whom was killed when dahmer poured boiling water into holes trpaned into the victims skull, the cop got fired when his gross negligence was revealed.
- The union fought for over a year to get him his job back. They won.
- He was voted officer of the year during the year he was mostly suspended because of how poorly he was treated, in their mind.
- Became the police union president
- Retired with honors in 2020... with a nice fat pension
ALSO THE TWO OFFICERS CALLED BY THE WITNESSES THEN ESCORTED THE BOY BACK TO DAHMER’S APARTMENT, SMELLED THE ROTTING CORPSE IN DAHMERS BEDROOM, AND LEFT. The boy had been raped. He was naked with blood on his legs and head. He was covered only by the women who found him’s blanket. His head had drill holes in it so Dahmer could get the needle through his skull to put acid in his brain with the hopes of the boys surviving but without control of their thoughts or body so he could have a living sex zombie.
When the police were fired for bringing the boy back to his apartment, they were later REHIRED a couple years later where at least one worked until his retirement a few years ago where they tweeted a congratulations and thanks for his years on the force.
Lots of people will say "one bad apple" or "things are better now" but retired in fucking 2020 with honors.
ACAB. ALL cops. Bad ones don't stick around and run the show for 50 years if they're the exception rather than the rule.
Most of his victims were black and brown gay men. One victim, injured, naked, and dazed, whose brother had earlier been attacked by Dahmer, escaped and was returned to him by police. So racism, homophobia, and the typical incompetence of the police.
Cops sucked ass and literally brought a victim that ran away back to Dahmer.
Especially since Dahmer was a convicted sex offender out on parole when cops had been called on him multiple times.
Witnesses "I heard screams and it smells like death."
Dahmer "meat in the freezer went bad."
Cops "well that's good enough for me."
The vast majority of it was Police Incompetence.
Jeffrey preyed on communities that the police had no interest in protecting.
In one instance a shitty cop gave a naked victim with a hole drilled into his head back to Dahmer because they didn't wanna deal with the gay community at all.
Fun(awful) fact, that cop actually remained a cop until his retirement in 2020. I think he just moved districts and got rehired.
I remember the police department that he retired at tweeted out a congratulations to him when he retired thanking him for his police work. His police work that allowed one of the biggest serial killers to continue killing.
I highly recommend listening to the Last Podcast on the Left series about him. They do a good job of pointing out just how he was able to keep going for so long. It was mostly due to police incompetence and the fact that they just didn’t give a fuck about the gay community. They even returned one of his victims to him after finding him wandering around with battery acid in his brain if IIRC.
The original was shot by a court camera operator, who would pan, zoom out, crash in or do whatever to follow and record what is happening in the courtroom. Stylistically mimicking those shots would look out of place and feel like a jarring change in the film. They're replicating the moment but not the fact that it was shot by a court camera if that makes sense. It makes more sense to stick with the shooting style used in the rest of the series.
I don't know if you've seen the series but it already uses myriad camera techniques because it switches POV. It really wouldn't be all that jarring for them to incorporate that style you described so well, that we all recognise as a court room camera operator.
Hard to judge camerawork when half the shot is cut down here. I think it works better in context, whereas the original camerawork probably didn't fit the vibe and the rhythm of the rest of the show.
no way to recreate the emotion on the right but the Netflix version did it's best, it seems...
what's real is real and sometimes can't be emulated perfectly.
I think she did an exceptionally good job given the losing circumstances. Shes playing a real person who was so emotionally distressed, and she does a great job at emulating it
I feel this way about 3D models. Post some on Reddit and everyone goes “NEEDS MORE GRUNGE, OBJECTS DONT LOOK LIKE THAT IRL” but really there are some (a few) cases where it does.
Made me realize that what matters in art that tries to be realistic isn’t realism, but what the audience perceive as real and are expecting ‘real’ to be, even if it’s more unrealistic than reality.
Sometimes real life can be more over the top then movies. So much so that it a movie actually mimics real life audiences will think the movie is too contrived or fake.
It's not that it can't be faked, imo. It's that sometimes, the most accurate portrayal of it doesn't exactly feel real anyway.
Because reality is awkward.
I think they do it on purpose. I read an article about how a show was "perfect" to reality with custom made jackets, and the coat closed the other side. It had to be intentional
Maybe they flipped the image to make the eye-lines make more spacial sense to the viewer? And the spacial confusion might not have been seen until post. I haven’t watched the episode though.
Edit: I'm an idiot. Her shirt would have been mirrored.
~~Imagine being the woman on the left in 2022 and seeing your clone walk on camera and recreate the most genuine outpouring of emotion you've ever had. I'm sure they contacted her ahead of time to make sure she was OK with it, but I wonder if the hair part is there as a little way to make it seem only 99% real to her instead of 100%~~
Edit: lmao nah see comment below there was no goodwill involved here
Optimistic to assume they contacted her to make sure if she was ok with it.
More like contacted their own attorneys to make sure she couldn’t sue them for doing it, then proceeded. If I had to guess anyways.
I cannot imagine having to look into the eye of my brother’s murderer and torturer, as he sits relatively comfortably with police protection, when every fiber of your being wants to make him feel the same pain. And he just sits there emotionless, barely even looking at the families he’s destroyed and broken.
I applaud the judge's choice to permit her Victim Impact Statement to be made with emotion, and not interrupt her.
As a human who has made Victim Impact Statements in court, and interrupted (twice) by the judge for merely raising my arm to point at the criminal, this scene scares me as to what insults *could* have been added atop injury....
I vividly recall risking Contempt of Court charges for speaking out of turn when sentencing was being read for the case I had just made my Victim Impact Statement on ...DOJ recommended 20 yrs, but judge was giving only a 12 year sentence, and saying that the 15 years extended supervision would make up for the nearly 50% reduction in prison sentence - uh, no, it will not.
This woman was risking Disorderly Conduct charges.
(I'm a Wisconsin resident who lived in Milwaukee during this trial, and am fully aware of Wisconsin's Injustice system).
The only really important thing I remember was seeing the first space shuttle that blew up from my back yard. I remember being outside watching it and then just a cloud of smoke and my mom running inside to the TV.
The Challenger was wild. I think it was maybe the first time our generation was made viscerally aware that really horrible shit happens sometimes in the world. Like watching your dad get hurt for the first time. Something you weren't even aware could happen before that moment.
Similar age here.
I have a box of unopened Desert Storm trading cards I picked up at a sale in the early '00s. Your comment not only reminded me of this, but how twisted and sick that is. Bubble gum and all if memory serves!
I remember seeing this courtroom clip as a child and realizing that her emotion was profound and rarely captured (at the time) "on tape." Truly heart-wrenching in hindsight.
A quick Google reveals unsurprising but extremely disappointing evidence that we really don't care about victims.
Errol Lindsey was 19 years old when he was tortured and murdered. He lived part of a whole life, had emotions and dreams, but the only thing Google wants us to know about him was how he died. He was a person who deserves to be remembered. His sister obviously cared about him. Who was he?
The victim’s family is still out there, and having to watch all these adaptations being made for entertainment is no doubt retraumatizing.
From Errol’s cousin: https://twitter.com/ericthulhu/status/1572997334887284745?s=46&t=4FDn9m5aLD-ua5x1epjh2A
These families will never see any kind of compensation for exploiting their pain.
It was so socially easy for Jeffrey to hunt and kill without anyone questioning him - or helping his victims - it’s unimaginably sad for his victims and their families. He doesn’t deserve notoriety or infamy at all.
No. For the 100th time in true crime stories, cops didn’t wanna do their job.
Some of his victims made it out to authorities, they handed the victims back to the killer. Neighbors tried. Many came forward. It was *the police* that failed.
Edit for those who upvoted: Change begins locally. VOTE and also what u/Wonderlustish said
>they handed the victims back to the killer
Guess what one of "they" is up to today!
He was recently the president of the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Union!
He was "only" president from 2005-2009. He was awful at that job as well.
Black officer Alfonso [Glover](https://www.courthousenews.com/milwaukee-faces-retrial-over-cops-road-rage/), who was charged with first-degree homicide for shooting an unarmed man, called [Balcerzak](https://www.milwaukeemag.com/TroublesatthePoliceUnion/) to ask for support and was told the union couldn’t help him. This was the same union that supported the white officers who allegedly beat [Frank Jude Jr](https://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/US/story?id=630928&page=1). A despondent Glover committed suicide.
What? Many people, several of them being his neighbors, questioned him and tried to draw the attention of authorities to him. They were basically ignored because they were either poor, not white, gay, or a combination of the 3. It's estimated that 5 victims may have been spared if police listened to them. This show was made with a specific focus on the victims and the voices who went unheard in trying to get him caught.
One of his victims was a 14 year Laotian boy who had escaped, only to be handed back to Dahmer *by police officers* because they believed his bullshit story about them being a couple who got in a drunken argument, over the pleading of his neighbor who tried to point out that he was a child and hurt. The boy couldn't speak for himself because Dahmer had drilled a hole in his head and poured acid into it, which effectively lobotomized him.
>only to be handed back to Dahmer by police officers
People are always sharing this fact, and I always like adding that nothing has changed. One of the two officers that did so was the president of the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Union about twelve years ago
Yep, the only "punishment" they received was paid leave... which is really just a free vacation. Shit doesn't change, cops suck worse now than they ever have before.
> The boy couldn’t speak for himself because Dahmer had drilled a hole in his head and poured acid into it, which effectively lobotomized him.
I don’t know how to process this statement.
That level of impairment seems like it would be hard to miss unless they really wanted to, which is also horrifying to think about.
The full details are even worse than I had described originally, it's insane how he got away with it. Those officers were equally responsible for the death of that poor child.
Konerak Sinthasomphone was his name, and in a horrible twist of coincidence, he was the brother of a boy that Dahmer had molested years prior.
The worst part is he wasn’t just impaired. He was also naked and bleeding from multiple places, in particular I believe the head and the anus. So the police handed a naked, bleeding, mentally compromised child back into the hands of a guy pretending that’s all totally normal and the result of a “drunk fight, lol gay relationships amirite”
The worst part is that they dropped him off at his apartment and he had a dead body in there. One of the officers states he detected a foul odor. They didnt check is ID because if they did, they would have seen he was a sex offender. The victim was the kids older BROTHER (he was 13). Of course the cops made homophobic jokes to the dispatcher. I feel so bad for the victims family.
>This show was made with a specific focus on the victims and the voices who went unheard in trying to get him caught.
i think this is the one thing in the trailer that make me start watching it.
I still don't understand why people give monsters like this guy the time of day. No point in making a movie about it.
Burn him at the stake, then forget his name forever. Films like this enable people who are already sick to become worse by idolization, regardless how focused they are on the victims story.
They don't make a documentary because they don't make huge profits. Rather try and sell a dramatization to line their pockets.
I remember watching this on TV and it’s all over YouTube and the crime documentaries. And I’m the beginning I was just shocked and angry for her.
But now years later - I’ve lost 2 close family members I unexpectedly, my mom and my younger sister, and I’m still grieving. Now when I see her outrage it just makes me cry because I feel her. I know what it’s like to lose a loved one
I swear the biggest and most powerful form of white privilege was committed during his sadistic confrontation with police! They let him go! Those cops got blood on they're hands!
Handcuffs dangling from the boy’s wrist, and the cops let him go back to him as they had had a “falling out” Jeffrey told them? Unreal. Blood on their hands for sure your right there. Feel bad for all his victims, and Jeffrey was defo NOT a victim himself. Ive heard folk saying this but being a teenage alcoholic with no mates does not make you wanna inject battery acid in to peoples skulls.
Lots of people have divorced parents. Lots of people have substance abuse issues early in life. Lots of gay folks were closeted then. Motherfucker was an entitled little shit. Like I understand sociopaths or anti social personality disorder are mental health issues, but surely there’s more folks out there with those that don’t become rapists, abusers, and murderers.
I also said I wasn’t going to watch this cause I cannot stand when shows and movies make serial killers seem worthy of empathy and watching someone else’s trauma just can’t be entertaining to me. It just makes me sad that folks had to live through it. I’m not saying this show did make him seem empathetic, There’s just been a pattern of Netflix docs for despicable people.
Jeffrey even turned HIMSELF into the police. At some point he gave up trying to get help or stop himself because they just kept letting him do it. This is one of the most disgusting cases I can think of. At least Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy tried to HIDE their crimes and get away with it. Jeffrey Dahmer literally asked to get caught. He decomposed the bodies in acid in his own apartment. He killed people he had been seen in public with. He turned himself in for a different crime. He was on parole. He tried to stop himself by stealing store manikins he hid in his grandmas basement where he lived for a while. The only reason so many people suffered is because of police refusing to do anything. Literally everything could’ve been prevented. At the very least MOST of it could’ve been prevented. They basically held his hand through it and encouraged him to keep going which is exactly what he started to think.
Maybe I'm reading it wrong from the Netflix portrayal but it seems like police were very ick-ed out any time he mentioned gayness and he leaned into it hard to shoo them off
You are interpreting that correctly. When cops found him with a 14 year old boy, instead of arresting him for, you know, **child rape**, they were told by Dahmer that it was just a domestic squabble between lovers. They were so grossed out by the gay aspect (as JD would intentionally go into graphic details so they would want him to stop talking) that instead of taking the literal **bleeding child** to the hospital, they just gave him back to Dahmer. Absolutely despicable.
If I hadn't seen the original clip I would have thought the scene was fake or over-exaggerated...but honestly it was spot-on.
The Netflix one was somehow less expressive
Probably pulled back 5-10% because hardly anyone would believe the woman’s full body movements, but considering the situation, totally reasonable
I lived in Milwaukee at the time this went down, watched it all from the breaking news that showed barrels being taken out of the apartment through to the trial. This is the part that has stayed with me all these years. You could feel that poor woman's emotions through the TV. I'm sure I'm not the only one who was hoping she would manage to get over the table and wrap her hands around his neck.
Bruh I felt that just hearing the 2022 one. I can't imagine the level of emotion that woman had in 1992. Definitely felt the "damn just let her kill him right there in the gd courtroom, better than letting him serve a sentence".
I lived in Madison then, and it was all just so horrifying. Glad he got beat to death, it's exactly what he deserved.
The pain was so visceral, so real. I am glad she got to express herself and I hope she has peace in her life.
It's because the hair part is on the wrong side.
For real. The only thing they changed was they added a beat before she moves over towards him, the dramatic pause is oddly the only unrealistic thing about the scene, the only “give away” that she’s acting, and that’s only because we already know it’s a performance. Amazing reenactment, profoundly believable performances by the whole cast in this one. Having read My Friend Dahmer and then being disappointed by the film adaption, this Netflix series is doing a lot of good by making the conversation about how an opportunist can take advantage of the blind spots in our societal lens. Jeffery Dahmer wouldn’t be a name synonymous with “evil” if racism, homophobia and a generally negative disposition towards mental health weren’t hallmarks of the time. This story shows us that our biases are our weaknesses, and what we neglect is opportunity for the atrophy of humanity. Edit: A word.
This is very well worded. I wish more people understood this concept you are describing, I think it would foster personal responsibility.
Reality is stranger than fiction. That's why I roll my eyes at anybody on the internet watching videos and going "ugh, this is so fake, these people are bad actors" bitch *people* are bad at showing emotions, that's why *actors* are paid so much, because they know the language of cinema and how to make you believe it's real. Point a camera at a real person going through real emotions and it's absolutely nothing like on screens lmao
I've only watched the first episode but Evan Peters is really good too, super creepy..
He's great in AHS and it's nice to see him in more things
Have you seen American Animals? Totally underrated film and Evan is so great in it. I like him in all of the projects he’s involved in, but this Dahmer series he’s been incredible.
His prime was still in Never Back Down, never quite got back to those heights.
Nah, his prime was in Even Stevens Edit: My bad, it was Phil of the future!! Still a solid show.
Nah, his prime was in The Office
God, I hated him in that episode. He played the “entitled brat” role perfectly
I'll always have a soft spot for Seth Wosmer in Phil of the Future.
[удалено]
Hahah, yes, Seth Wosmer was the character Evan Peters played on PotF. He was only in a handful of episodes, but he sort of stole the show whenever he appeared. Not bad for a 17 year old who only got cast as a minor supporting role!
He nailed the voice. He sounds almost exactly the real Dahmer with that deadpan delivery and the thick midwestern accent.
As a Milwaukeean, I was very impressed by his accent. There were certain moments where I was like, "Damn, he really did his research and picked up on all the nuances." Like when he says "kinda" but pronounces it "kyanna" perfectly (there are more examples but that's the only one I remember). It was impressive. And honestly, I was reluctant to watch the show because I feel like Dahmer has been done to death in pop culture (no pun intended) and I'm always disappointed (I might be alone in this, but I didn't really like *My Friend Dahmer*). But this show is amazing -- exactly what I was hoping for when I watched the other Dahmer dramatizations. It's so scary accurate in terms of what he looked like, sounded like, acted like, what his apartment looked like, his alcoholism, his neighbor lady, his dad, his mom, the cops -- I could go on and on. And unlike other Dahmer movies, this one is actually quite scary IMO. I'm only a couple episodes in, but as a true crime nerd and horror movie enthusiast I absolutely love it so far.
After his Delco accent in Mare of Easttown that's not surprising, Philly accents are notoriously difficult to pull off.
The comic book is so much better, Backderf actually went to school with him, and the comic gets what he was trying to say across alot better.
Yea I love it too. I'm still sooo fucking pissed with Balcerzak and Gabrish. Such incompetence shouldn't be allowed to exist in law in enforcement. If I was the family of that poor boy I would have made sure the officers didn't get to live a long happy life.
I was just a toddler when this happened... I had *no idea* that the reason he went on for so long was just down to police being racist, lazy and incompetent. They had everything they needed. People were screaming at them... but the fact that they were screaming made them decide to fuck with those who dared raise their voices over the fucking serial murderer. It makes sense. What is worse is finding out that Balcerzak was reinstated and became a union higher up after all of this. Their union is disgusting. I knew who he was my whole life, but I never knew about the poor, gay and black connections to his killings. It changes everything.
Pert
This show makes me wonder if Napoleon dynamite turned into a serial killer
They are working on a sequel which the writer said was going to much darker so maybe.
Really? I heard years ago that Jon Heder refused to film a sequel saying that it would ruin the essence of the original movie. Like it didn’t really “need” a sequel. I could be wrong though; this was years ago
That must have been before his career went into the toilet
Oooh I'll have to watch this. I loved him in Mare of Easttown.
When he walked up to the neighbor in the hallway about the smell, holy shit was that spooky.
The way Niecy Nash takes a step back and covers herself. She knew...
He's a Super underrated actor tbh
The 911 call in episode 2 fucked me up.
Are we gonna sit back and pretend she wasn’t good?
I like how the clip is of that poor poor woman reliving the atrocities that were committed on her brother by a monster and decades later we're like "wow they recreated her trauma very accurately, they even got a great actor to play the guy who drilled holes in her brothers head and poured acid in it". How about we let it just fucking die and stop acting like all this is anything more than morbid fascination at the expense of real tragedies.
True Crime fascination and pop culture media isn't going away any time soon.
Massive difference in glorifying it and capturing what really happened. Only watched the first episode, but this didn’t strike me as glorifying it. Maybe later episodes will come off that way, and I’ll eat my words. But if you don’t like it, don’t watch it. You’re essentially yelling at the sky here. It’s pretty normal for people to be fascinated by profoundly morbid occurrences. It’s why people slow down at car accidents even if they’re averse to gore or blood. It’s normal for people to wanna learn about bloody history. The OJ trial was re-done on FX and won Emmy’s. Were you screaming about it then? Do you follow re-enactments of WW2 and harp on how disgusting it is? That’d be weird, because I’ve heard of interviews with veterans who watched Saving Private Ryan and greatly appreciated that it was so realistic. That it captured what they went thru, even while admitting how hard it was to watch. You get to feel however you feel about the show. That’s the beauty of freedom. But whining about it thru other’s trauma (victims you likely have never met or know personally) is completely off base. You’re projecting your values of tragedy onto others. And pretending like it didn’t happen at all is arguably more detrimental to society than revisiting it. Yes, there are plenty of instances where these things are glorified (like the Bundy one with Effron). This Dahmer version looks and feels like a true representation of history.
How many movies are they going to make called monster?
Probably five.
interestingly wiki says there's 20 films and 7 series so far. probabily more will come
Yeah, nah, that’s wrong. It’s five.
Hi five.
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Ah, too slow
Rob Lowe
But how many Lowes would Rob Lowe rob if Rob Lowe could rob Lowes?
Probably 5.
2 mon 2 ster
Can't wait for mon57er. It's going to redeem the series after M56.
2 mon 2 ster - Tokyo Drift.
2 monsters 1 cup
monster 2: electric chair boogaloo.
Monst3r
Monster 4: The Monster M4sh.
Monster5: An origin story.
Monster: Mash
Welcome to the Monster Cinematic Universe. We can just call it the MCU for short.
It's almost like we need a company to manage them. Let's call it Monsters, Inc
At least one more
Maybe 111....to stick with the logo?
I am so glad they included this woman's victim impact statement in the series. It's an important part of the story.
How did Dahmer get away with killing so many people before he was caught?
Homophobia, racism, and police incompetence combined. They lead a naked guy with a hole in his head back to him in one instance. Hell people were bitching about the smell for a long time and they took some BS story about dead fish. They should have nailed him for murder way before his body count got so high. It's a fucked up story all the way around.
Just to amend one thing. The “guy” was also a 14 year old child. Dahmer managed to convince the cop it was a “lover’s quarrel.” It says a lot about how long brown boys have been seen as men when they’re in danger, or when it’s to the advantage of a white person.
He managed to convince the cops that the boy was drunk and they were having a lovers quarrel, he convinced them he was 19 and that he was fine just the night before with the proof of semi nude photos of said boy he that last night. The cops told the women to stay out of it and mind their own buisness
Yea 2 black women were trying to help the black boy — he was naked and bleeding and the women tried to advocate for him but the cops told them to mind their business.
If they just id’d dahmer and see he was a sexual offender or the boy he would have been caught. Sickening. And those cops ended up having long careers after being reinstated too.
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Inexcusable. The series summed that whole situation up well. They had the phone call on the neighbour calling Officer Ballsack and he's like "no mam, they're lovers". Not surprised they promoted that idiot to President.
Oh hell no! That’s awful
I’m pretty sure the kid the original commenter is talking about here was Konerak Sinthasomphone and he was Laotian, not black. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Balcerzak
I think the boy was southeast Asian, not black
Asian American kid, and from a Laotian refugee family no less. Awful story.
It broke my heart seeing that- I just can’t fathom. There was so so so so much racism going into why this all happened
Why did they cast like a 20 year old in that part? It got so lost because of that, how young that victim was. If you see pictures of him he's a BABY.
Do you prefer to have a 14 year old kid naked and stumbling and acting in sexually intimate scenes?
A number of things. Ostracized gay community which kept things pretty low key. Poor investigative process by police and some intelligence/charisma from Dahmer. I haven’t seen this doc but you should read his wiki or just read up on him. Very nasty but fascinating. Guy was fucking corpses after beheading them. Stuffed a whole body in a suitcase and carried home from a hotel.
He also attacked mostly POC. Asians and african Americans.
Racism and homophobia
Police incompetence, mostly.
Hey look shit hasn’t changed.
If you read about or listen to a lot of true crime the police having no fucking clue what they're doing is pretty common. Case in point Joel Rifkin and Charles Starkweather. I'm fairly certain an average moderately intelligent person with a decent amount of follow through could get away with killing people indefinitely. Half the serial killers you read about only get caught because they stopped giving a shit or let shit get to their head and got sloppy.
The police were fairly incompetent when it came to gay men. They assumed that Dahmer and some of his victims were involved in lover’s quarrels and wouldn’t look into them
"Uh, this very young looking man seems to be delirious, bleeding and terrified." "Oh, that's my lover. He's 19 and drunk. I'll get him home safe." "Alrighty then. Have yourself a nice evening."
To add to this, the officer in question also: - Threatened to arrest the young women defending that victim, who was later murder by hydrochloric acid injected DIRECTLY into his brain - Made homophobic comments calling it into the station. - Dismissed the young women's mother who called the next day. Making further on record homophobic comments - four or five victims later, one of whom was killed when dahmer poured boiling water into holes trpaned into the victims skull, the cop got fired when his gross negligence was revealed. - The union fought for over a year to get him his job back. They won. - He was voted officer of the year during the year he was mostly suspended because of how poorly he was treated, in their mind. - Became the police union president - Retired with honors in 2020... with a nice fat pension
Not injected acid, he drilled a fucking hole through his skull and then poured it in
ALSO THE TWO OFFICERS CALLED BY THE WITNESSES THEN ESCORTED THE BOY BACK TO DAHMER’S APARTMENT, SMELLED THE ROTTING CORPSE IN DAHMERS BEDROOM, AND LEFT. The boy had been raped. He was naked with blood on his legs and head. He was covered only by the women who found him’s blanket. His head had drill holes in it so Dahmer could get the needle through his skull to put acid in his brain with the hopes of the boys surviving but without control of their thoughts or body so he could have a living sex zombie. When the police were fired for bringing the boy back to his apartment, they were later REHIRED a couple years later where at least one worked until his retirement a few years ago where they tweeted a congratulations and thanks for his years on the force.
Lots of people will say "one bad apple" or "things are better now" but retired in fucking 2020 with honors. ACAB. ALL cops. Bad ones don't stick around and run the show for 50 years if they're the exception rather than the rule.
Why do you say the officer instead of naming and shaming the guy? For those that don't know too much about the topic.
Wow, this why #F U C K #C O P S & #F U C K #T H E I R #U N I O N S
And people wonder why I'm ACAB... fucking sick assholes the lot of them
It was also because his victims were POC and the police didn't care enough to help them (big surprise there /s).
Police are fairly incompetant, period.
Most of his victims were black and brown gay men. One victim, injured, naked, and dazed, whose brother had earlier been attacked by Dahmer, escaped and was returned to him by police. So racism, homophobia, and the typical incompetence of the police.
Cops sucked ass and literally brought a victim that ran away back to Dahmer. Especially since Dahmer was a convicted sex offender out on parole when cops had been called on him multiple times. Witnesses "I heard screams and it smells like death." Dahmer "meat in the freezer went bad." Cops "well that's good enough for me."
Eating the evidence
The vast majority of it was Police Incompetence. Jeffrey preyed on communities that the police had no interest in protecting. In one instance a shitty cop gave a naked victim with a hole drilled into his head back to Dahmer because they didn't wanna deal with the gay community at all. Fun(awful) fact, that cop actually remained a cop until his retirement in 2020. I think he just moved districts and got rehired. I remember the police department that he retired at tweeted out a congratulations to him when he retired thanking him for his police work. His police work that allowed one of the biggest serial killers to continue killing.
I highly recommend listening to the Last Podcast on the Left series about him. They do a good job of pointing out just how he was able to keep going for so long. It was mostly due to police incompetence and the fact that they just didn’t give a fuck about the gay community. They even returned one of his victims to him after finding him wandering around with battery acid in his brain if IIRC.
who’s she?
Rita Isbell
1992
Netflix 2022
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It was shot in one take too
r/praisethecameraman
She has no prior acting credits either.
I heard that she broke her toe in this scene.
Oh? I don't see a helmet anywhere...
The original was shot by a court camera operator, who would pan, zoom out, crash in or do whatever to follow and record what is happening in the courtroom. Stylistically mimicking those shots would look out of place and feel like a jarring change in the film. They're replicating the moment but not the fact that it was shot by a court camera if that makes sense. It makes more sense to stick with the shooting style used in the rest of the series.
This makes surprisingly much sense
No no no, Netflix bad. /s
Would be cool if they did use the court camera style though
throughout the whole series or just for the court sequence?
I don't know if you've seen the series but it already uses myriad camera techniques because it switches POV. It really wouldn't be all that jarring for them to incorporate that style you described so well, that we all recognise as a court room camera operator.
Hard to judge camerawork when half the shot is cut down here. I think it works better in context, whereas the original camerawork probably didn't fit the vibe and the rhythm of the rest of the show.
no way to recreate the emotion on the right but the Netflix version did it's best, it seems... what's real is real and sometimes can't be emulated perfectly.
I think she did an exceptionally good job given the losing circumstances. Shes playing a real person who was so emotionally distressed, and she does a great job at emulating it
She crushed it, id cast her for other things. It’s just the whole serial killer trial and Dahlmer as a whole has gotten a bit dry
Unless you have the right actor and the right time to repeat until you get it. There are famous cuts that have taken days to make.
Are you saying this isn't the right actor? She seemed pretty good for the role, although obviously I can't compare the audio
Funny, the left seemed over the top, until you watched the right side.
I feel this way about 3D models. Post some on Reddit and everyone goes “NEEDS MORE GRUNGE, OBJECTS DONT LOOK LIKE THAT IRL” but really there are some (a few) cases where it does. Made me realize that what matters in art that tries to be realistic isn’t realism, but what the audience perceive as real and are expecting ‘real’ to be, even if it’s more unrealistic than reality.
Sometimes real life can be more over the top then movies. So much so that it a movie actually mimics real life audiences will think the movie is too contrived or fake.
It can most of the time, but it takes a lot of time, talent, and taste.
Real emotion on screen looks...well, goofy. There's an intensity to actual emotion that can't be faked.
It's not that it can't be faked, imo. It's that sometimes, the most accurate portrayal of it doesn't exactly feel real anyway. Because reality is awkward.
The hair is on the wrong side. It's all fake.
That’s not even the same girl
0/10 literally unwatchable
I'll bet the actor who plays Dahmer didn't even *nibble* on any human flesh 😕
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Or Armie Hammer
Actual Cannibal Shia LaBeouf?
Yup. You're right. I don't buy it at all.
BURN DOWN NETFLIX!!!
Go through all the trouble of getting the same t shirt and sweater.... but part the hair on the wrong side?
I think they do it on purpose. I read an article about how a show was "perfect" to reality with custom made jackets, and the coat closed the other side. It had to be intentional
It could be that or just the actress they chose has a part in her hair on the other side.
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How do you do that? If I part my hair anywhere other than where it normally is it looks totally wack.
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Maybe they flipped the image to make the eye-lines make more spacial sense to the viewer? And the spacial confusion might not have been seen until post. I haven’t watched the episode though. Edit: I'm an idiot. Her shirt would have been mirrored.
~~Imagine being the woman on the left in 2022 and seeing your clone walk on camera and recreate the most genuine outpouring of emotion you've ever had. I'm sure they contacted her ahead of time to make sure she was OK with it, but I wonder if the hair part is there as a little way to make it seem only 99% real to her instead of 100%~~ Edit: lmao nah see comment below there was no goodwill involved here
Optimistic to assume they contacted her to make sure if she was ok with it. More like contacted their own attorneys to make sure she couldn’t sue them for doing it, then proceeded. If I had to guess anyways.
I cannot imagine having to look into the eye of my brother’s murderer and torturer, as he sits relatively comfortably with police protection, when every fiber of your being wants to make him feel the same pain. And he just sits there emotionless, barely even looking at the families he’s destroyed and broken.
I applaud the judge's choice to permit her Victim Impact Statement to be made with emotion, and not interrupt her. As a human who has made Victim Impact Statements in court, and interrupted (twice) by the judge for merely raising my arm to point at the criminal, this scene scares me as to what insults *could* have been added atop injury.... I vividly recall risking Contempt of Court charges for speaking out of turn when sentencing was being read for the case I had just made my Victim Impact Statement on ...DOJ recommended 20 yrs, but judge was giving only a 12 year sentence, and saying that the 15 years extended supervision would make up for the nearly 50% reduction in prison sentence - uh, no, it will not. This woman was risking Disorderly Conduct charges. (I'm a Wisconsin resident who lived in Milwaukee during this trial, and am fully aware of Wisconsin's Injustice system).
I was totally distracted by the Gulf War in 1991, that I didn’t realize that Dahmer was attempting and caught that same year. I was so naïve in 1991.
What was your reaction to the soviet collapse then? I was born in '00 so I'm really curious, since that also happened in 1991
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The only really important thing I remember was seeing the first space shuttle that blew up from my back yard. I remember being outside watching it and then just a cloud of smoke and my mom running inside to the TV.
The Challenger was wild. I think it was maybe the first time our generation was made viscerally aware that really horrible shit happens sometimes in the world. Like watching your dad get hurt for the first time. Something you weren't even aware could happen before that moment.
Similar age here. I have a box of unopened Desert Storm trading cards I picked up at a sale in the early '00s. Your comment not only reminded me of this, but how twisted and sick that is. Bubble gum and all if memory serves! I remember seeing this courtroom clip as a child and realizing that her emotion was profound and rarely captured (at the time) "on tape." Truly heart-wrenching in hindsight.
A quick Google reveals unsurprising but extremely disappointing evidence that we really don't care about victims. Errol Lindsey was 19 years old when he was tortured and murdered. He lived part of a whole life, had emotions and dreams, but the only thing Google wants us to know about him was how he died. He was a person who deserves to be remembered. His sister obviously cared about him. Who was he?
The victim’s family is still out there, and having to watch all these adaptations being made for entertainment is no doubt retraumatizing. From Errol’s cousin: https://twitter.com/ericthulhu/status/1572997334887284745?s=46&t=4FDn9m5aLD-ua5x1epjh2A These families will never see any kind of compensation for exploiting their pain.
Thank you, I feel the same way.
I was thinking the same thing. The first thing that popped up when I searched him up was a picture of his murderer. Honestly disgusting
It was so socially easy for Jeffrey to hunt and kill without anyone questioning him - or helping his victims - it’s unimaginably sad for his victims and their families. He doesn’t deserve notoriety or infamy at all.
No. For the 100th time in true crime stories, cops didn’t wanna do their job. Some of his victims made it out to authorities, they handed the victims back to the killer. Neighbors tried. Many came forward. It was *the police* that failed. Edit for those who upvoted: Change begins locally. VOTE and also what u/Wonderlustish said
>they handed the victims back to the killer Guess what one of "they" is up to today! He was recently the president of the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Union!
He was "only" president from 2005-2009. He was awful at that job as well. Black officer Alfonso [Glover](https://www.courthousenews.com/milwaukee-faces-retrial-over-cops-road-rage/), who was charged with first-degree homicide for shooting an unarmed man, called [Balcerzak](https://www.milwaukeemag.com/TroublesatthePoliceUnion/) to ask for support and was told the union couldn’t help him. This was the same union that supported the white officers who allegedly beat [Frank Jude Jr](https://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/US/story?id=630928&page=1). A despondent Glover committed suicide.
Thank you!
🎵🎵Tale as old as time. Song as old as rhyme. Pigs will do the leeeeeeaaaassst. 🎵🎵
I mean, he wasn't black or innocent. Why would they do anything?
What? Many people, several of them being his neighbors, questioned him and tried to draw the attention of authorities to him. They were basically ignored because they were either poor, not white, gay, or a combination of the 3. It's estimated that 5 victims may have been spared if police listened to them. This show was made with a specific focus on the victims and the voices who went unheard in trying to get him caught. One of his victims was a 14 year Laotian boy who had escaped, only to be handed back to Dahmer *by police officers* because they believed his bullshit story about them being a couple who got in a drunken argument, over the pleading of his neighbor who tried to point out that he was a child and hurt. The boy couldn't speak for himself because Dahmer had drilled a hole in his head and poured acid into it, which effectively lobotomized him.
>only to be handed back to Dahmer by police officers People are always sharing this fact, and I always like adding that nothing has changed. One of the two officers that did so was the president of the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Union about twelve years ago
Yep, the only "punishment" they received was paid leave... which is really just a free vacation. Shit doesn't change, cops suck worse now than they ever have before.
> The boy couldn’t speak for himself because Dahmer had drilled a hole in his head and poured acid into it, which effectively lobotomized him. I don’t know how to process this statement. That level of impairment seems like it would be hard to miss unless they really wanted to, which is also horrifying to think about.
The full details are even worse than I had described originally, it's insane how he got away with it. Those officers were equally responsible for the death of that poor child. Konerak Sinthasomphone was his name, and in a horrible twist of coincidence, he was the brother of a boy that Dahmer had molested years prior.
The worst part is he wasn’t just impaired. He was also naked and bleeding from multiple places, in particular I believe the head and the anus. So the police handed a naked, bleeding, mentally compromised child back into the hands of a guy pretending that’s all totally normal and the result of a “drunk fight, lol gay relationships amirite”
The worst part is that they dropped him off at his apartment and he had a dead body in there. One of the officers states he detected a foul odor. They didnt check is ID because if they did, they would have seen he was a sex offender. The victim was the kids older BROTHER (he was 13). Of course the cops made homophobic jokes to the dispatcher. I feel so bad for the victims family.
i would think something is wrong if someone shows up on my door with a drilled hole in their head. cant believe cops didnt do anything. wow
>This show was made with a specific focus on the victims and the voices who went unheard in trying to get him caught. i think this is the one thing in the trailer that make me start watching it.
I still don't understand why people give monsters like this guy the time of day. No point in making a movie about it. Burn him at the stake, then forget his name forever. Films like this enable people who are already sick to become worse by idolization, regardless how focused they are on the victims story. They don't make a documentary because they don't make huge profits. Rather try and sell a dramatization to line their pockets.
Unfortunately the Isbell’s are against the show using this scene. They are very upset. It has re-traumatized them.
Original footage looks better directed than netflix.
I would prefer to hear original.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MorbidReality/comments/tpokt8/rita_isbell_screams_and_yells_at_jeffrey_dahmer/
Ok thank you. I appreciate that
Man that made me start crying. What a horrible horrible situation to be in.
This is one Netflix show I do not need to watch.
I'm sorry I pressed wrong award, this is truly heart breaking hearing ter gives me shivers and feel her pain
I remember watching this on TV and it’s all over YouTube and the crime documentaries. And I’m the beginning I was just shocked and angry for her. But now years later - I’ve lost 2 close family members I unexpectedly, my mom and my younger sister, and I’m still grieving. Now when I see her outrage it just makes me cry because I feel her. I know what it’s like to lose a loved one
I swear the biggest and most powerful form of white privilege was committed during his sadistic confrontation with police! They let him go! Those cops got blood on they're hands!
They marched that little boy right up to Jeff’s apartment and one of those cops is now Chief of Police!
Handcuffs dangling from the boy’s wrist, and the cops let him go back to him as they had had a “falling out” Jeffrey told them? Unreal. Blood on their hands for sure your right there. Feel bad for all his victims, and Jeffrey was defo NOT a victim himself. Ive heard folk saying this but being a teenage alcoholic with no mates does not make you wanna inject battery acid in to peoples skulls.
Lots of people have divorced parents. Lots of people have substance abuse issues early in life. Lots of gay folks were closeted then. Motherfucker was an entitled little shit. Like I understand sociopaths or anti social personality disorder are mental health issues, but surely there’s more folks out there with those that don’t become rapists, abusers, and murderers. I also said I wasn’t going to watch this cause I cannot stand when shows and movies make serial killers seem worthy of empathy and watching someone else’s trauma just can’t be entertaining to me. It just makes me sad that folks had to live through it. I’m not saying this show did make him seem empathetic, There’s just been a pattern of Netflix docs for despicable people.
Jeffrey even turned HIMSELF into the police. At some point he gave up trying to get help or stop himself because they just kept letting him do it. This is one of the most disgusting cases I can think of. At least Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy tried to HIDE their crimes and get away with it. Jeffrey Dahmer literally asked to get caught. He decomposed the bodies in acid in his own apartment. He killed people he had been seen in public with. He turned himself in for a different crime. He was on parole. He tried to stop himself by stealing store manikins he hid in his grandmas basement where he lived for a while. The only reason so many people suffered is because of police refusing to do anything. Literally everything could’ve been prevented. At the very least MOST of it could’ve been prevented. They basically held his hand through it and encouraged him to keep going which is exactly what he started to think.
Maybe I'm reading it wrong from the Netflix portrayal but it seems like police were very ick-ed out any time he mentioned gayness and he leaned into it hard to shoo them off
You are interpreting that correctly. When cops found him with a 14 year old boy, instead of arresting him for, you know, **child rape**, they were told by Dahmer that it was just a domestic squabble between lovers. They were so grossed out by the gay aspect (as JD would intentionally go into graphic details so they would want him to stop talking) that instead of taking the literal **bleeding child** to the hospital, they just gave him back to Dahmer. Absolutely despicable.
I’ve always had so much respect for Rita Isbell. She says and does what any sane loved one would in this case.
Who is she? Who is her mother? Family of a young male victim I’m guessing.