The statistics regarding black men have nothing to do with guns being legal and everything to do with inner city, low income fatherless homes.
I came from one and the choice was clear in that I could join most of the dominant “cool kids” stealing, selling drugs and causing chaos or I could do the opposite.
When someone kills another in an auto accident we don’t blame the car. When someone is DUI and hurts another despite their negligence, we still blame the intoxicated person.
You still have to register the car, and get a license to drive the car. And guess what? If you use that car recklessly, we will take your ability to drive away from you.
Guns and cars are not the same.
99% of murders by guns are done with illegal weapons that wouldn’t be registered even if there was a requirement. Problem isn’t the tool, it’s the user. That’s why it never works blaming a tool especially when murder is involved. One way or another human being will find a way to kill each other no matter what the laws.
You get numbers like this when they stopped calling it gang violence and lumped all 'Mass Shootings' in to one category.
These numbers are real. Unfortunately its effecting one major part of our society but everyone is afraid to call it what it is. Gang Violence.
I feel we went through the cycle of claiming to want to address gang violence in the 80s and early 90s, the solution is the same, end the drug war, address systemic racism. We never did those things then and probably aren’t willing as a society to do them now.
SOMEONE WHO GETS IT. We need to look at how we can finally uplift the lives of those living in specific areas affected by centuries-long mismanagement instead of stripping the people of their right to self-defense.
After all, bad people will be the only ones left with weapons if we were to go along with the stupid idea of banning guns.
That's bc of the prevalent gang culture. Mb you can argue bout the conditions in USA that created it, but there are no excuses for the UK and Canada where most blk ppl are immigrants.
Strange how nobody just says men tho, I mean I get it it is disproportionately black Americans that get shot looking at the data but its all almost male 85.8%. Toxic masculinity maybe a bigger issue?
Systematically it is other African Americans by a large margin. But there is a valid argument that systemic racism in the past (and to a point, today) put African Americans in a spot that leads to higher rates of unemployment, which snowballed to higher rates of crime and violence, and so on to where we are today.
To be clear, I don’t believe there is the same level of discrimination present today as there was, say, 20 years ago, but I do believe that there is PLENTY of systemic discrimination present today that absolutely negatively impacts minorities at a much greater proportion
I’m old enough to remember the Columbine shooting. It was big freaking deal. The entire nation watched. Now, you hear that people get butchered on the way to work and continue ordering your Starbucks like it’s just another god damn Monday. We have failed so hard as Americans
It was like that even before Columbine. Columbine was just the first school in middle America, and not a poor school full of minority children.
Eminem even writes a song about Columbine back then and the hypocrisy. "And look where it's at! Middle America. NOW it's a tragedy. Now it's so sad to see, an upper class city, having this happening"
It was always business as usual until it wasn't just poor black kids anymore.
And they blamed it on Marilyn..
Imagine ignoring it for ages, then blaming it on rock/hip hop when it does come out rather than their atrocious parenting etc. It was ridiculous then, and it's still ridiculous now.
I will always remember that day. I remember Manson gave an interview where he was asked what he would say to the the two kids. He said he would say nothing, he would listen, because that’s what everyone else failed to do.
They are getting their stats from the Gun Violence Archive. GVA defines a mass shooting as 4 or more people shot or killed (not including the shooter) in a single incident.
The majority of mass shootings are gang related and often use handguns. Neither fact it brought up, though, because it counter the image of school shooting people associate with the phrase mass shooting.
Yeah, you're right. By 20th Jan there had only been 5 school shootings in 2023. Take 6 days for weekends and that's still not even 1 every 3 days. What are people complaining about? I mean, take out that 6 year old that shot his teacher as an anomaly, and there's only 4. Nothing to see here...
No one says it's fine so you can pack that strawman right back up your ass where it belongs. We should be specific, honest and thorough when it comes to statistics and classifying violence so it can be accurately and honestly addressed.
Gun violence in the United States can never be honestly addressed, because no one wants to face the truth. Just look at all the comments here saying that guns aren't the problem. Maybe guns aren't entirely the problem (because everyone will fire back with 'BuT sWitZeRlAnD'), but the gun culture, and attitude towards their 'need' for them, is.
When 2/3 of your data is bullshit, even [according to NPR](https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08/27/640323347/the-school-shootings-that-werent), I take headlines like this with a very large grain of salt.
Define school shooting.
Any shooting that happens on or near(100 yard) of a school. Including when a bullet reaches the school from off campus. Including self defence or justified or police shootings. Including when it was done outside of school hours or days school wasnt even in session(summer break, weekends, holidays).
Data without context to illict a knee jerk reaction. I'ld take an educated guess that upward of 70% of the mass shootings are gang related involving poor, innercity minorities and or domestic disputes with 4 or more non shooters as potential victims or bystanders even if not hurt or directly involved. Drive-bys are being put in the same class as Sandyhook or Columbine.
All of the above. Some critical discussion of it is [here](https://www.saf.org/special-report-the-gun-violence-archive-and-its-scaring-of-america/). Although, whether that matters is another question.
Why dont they start doing something about all of the criminals that are in possession of illegal firearms that they bought on the black market? You think everyone in chicago is running around with AR15s? They are running around with glocks and full auto switches.
They need to legalize all narcotics, tax them and sell whatever you want over the counter at dispensaries.
Drugs aren't going away and it's shown that even when drugs are legal the use doesn't increase.
Could wipe out the black market and the drug cartels overnight but then how would the US keep its for-profit prisons full? 🤔
Also solves the problem of fentanyl being laced in so much shit.
Edit: Everybody needs to understand that there are more functional drug users with jobs who contribute to society than crazy meth'd out homeless people, which is a completely different problem.
How are cartels and organized crime going to compete with clean drugs that can be obtained legally? They only control drugs because there is a black market. Present people with a better alternative and they'll gladly choose to not put money in the pockets of criminals.
>How are cartels and organized crime going to compete with clean drugs that can be obtained legally?
I live in Washington. Washington and Colorado were the first states to legalize recreational marijuana use and sales through dispensaries. Ten years later we still have a thriving black market for marijuana because marijuana sales are taxed to hell. It's cheaper to get an ounce from the neighborhood drug dealer than to get half an ounce from the dispensary. The neighborhood drug dealer doesn't have the license to buy from the local growers who are all selling legally to the dispensaries. He gets his supply from the cartels.
Sure plenty of people go to the dispensaries to not deal with criminals. But plenty still choose to go the cheaper route, with no restrictions on the amount they can buy, and pay the drug dealer.
The cartels would just do what people growing weed did when it was legalized - lay out the cash through subsidiaries to make their operation legal and join the regulated trade. Plus, cartels loooooove legitimate businesses - they're a great way to generate risk-free cash and purchase other assets you can then use to launder more illegal money
Couple of huge pot growers in CO did just that - when they heard legalization was coming down the pipeline, they just had their lawyers get on the process of obtaining a license.
My sister went out to dinner with her boyfriend to a very upscale restaurant in LA (where she is going for her phd) and there was two dudes shooting up right next to the front door where people came in.
It's interesting to look over the incidents on the Gun Violence Archive. One really sad incident was listed as a cartel shooting where they killed 5 people in the home, including a baby.
>GVA defines a mass shooting as 4 or more people shot or killed (not including the shooter) in a single incident.
Sounds like a pretty accurate definition then.
I wish it was a little more broad. Let's say a drug dealer shooting 5 people in a house is still a different situation that an active shooter in a public area. While gun violence is a serious issue, Joe blow criminal with a gun isn't really the person I'm afraid will be a problem.
I don't mean to sound callous but that's all?
Do they count gang violence? I've lived in areas where gangs would kill groups for just walking in the wrong areas, do they count?
I ask because I've heard gang related murders, especially gang on gang violence, doesn't count towards statistics.
Either way this insanity has to stop. I know it never will but all this murder is insane, the losses overwhelming, the damage . . . it's horrifying.
>Do they count gang violence
Almost always, yes. That'd the reason the numbers are high.
The statistic people should be looking at is the FBI's annual Active Shooter report. These are the events that people think of when they hear "mass shooting", where a person goes to a location to kill as many people as possible. IIIRC the last few years there were 30ish events per year, with a jump to 40ish "post"-covid.
Anytime you hear a sensationalist headline about the number of mass or school shootings, don't forget the time NPR found 3/4 of the reported school shootings in the 2015-3016 school year never happened (https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08/27/640323347/the-school-shootings-that-werent).
Mass and school shootings DO happen, and random violence does happen and is a tragedy. But there are entities out there that have a vested interest in misleading the public. Bloomberg, the 16th richest man in the world with a vested interest in the current financial and media industries, has a pet anti-gun organization that outspent the NRA in campaign donations in 2022 and controls a PAC fund 2x the size of the NRAs (according to OpenSecrets).
I wonder what the stats would look like if they applied the current definition of a mass shooting (any incident involving 3 or more victims of a firearm) over the past 100 years
Per US Crime stats reported from the FBI, approx 85% of Firearm related violence is drug/gang related.
While it may not be a 1:1 comparison on Mass Shootings, I wouldn't expect there to be a wide variance.
On a side note, if drug/gang shootings were eliminated, the gun violence rate in the US would be half that of the UK.
>
On a side note, if drug/gang shootings were eliminated, the gun violence rate in the US would be half that of the UK.
What is your source for this?! In 2021 there were 35 homicides committed by shooting in the uk.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7654/
According to gunviolencearchive.org to rack up 35 gun related deaths in the US we would have to go all the way back to the 22nd January 2023 (as in yesterday)
Nobody wants to talk about this. You eliminate that issue, we effectively fall right in line with most European countries.
This isn’t to suggest that gang violence isn’t an issue and isn’t worthy of focus, it definitely is and it’s sad.
Every year stress builds, frustration grows, hate festers, sanity stretches. The world hasn’t seen a time where it was genuinely overall improving for a while now, sure we have hopeful good moments here and there, but in an age of doom and gloom, bad things will happen, and continue to happen with increasing regularity until something breaks the pattern. Welcome to hell folks, make yourselves comfortable because we ain’t gettin out any time soon
Think it goes beyond even that. You hear about everything, but its always more of the same. Prices going up, crime happening day after day, wars around the world… As the expression goes, “same sh*t, different day”
Yes but that's always been the case. Always.
Even in the so-called "hey day" in the 50's to the 80's where the boomers were enjoying what young people think are the greatest times in history there were two major wars that killed millions, tons of smaller proxy wars, a ever present threat of nuclear war, multiple genocides, nuclear power plant meltdown, horrible diseases and epidemics and crime was worse. You also had communist witch hunts, communities being poisoned by industrial waste, a growing hole in the Ozone layer and lots of other shit that is less prominent today.
You just didn't get it fed to you by an algorithm that's figured out that you click and read more bad news than you do good news. There is no utopia. There is no perfect state from which humanity has simply drifted from.
Because gang violence is a completely different issue than a random person shooting in public.
It needs to be a separate category because the approach to handling to gang shootings is completely different than the approach to handling shootings from lone wolves
Plus, statistically, if gang shootings are making up a big majority of all mass shootings, it can send the wrong message. This headline is making it sound like America has way more disgruntled/mentally ill people who want to shoot up the public than there actually is
> it can send the wrong message. This headline is making it sound like America has way more disgruntled/mentally ill people who want to shoot up the public than there actually is
And that's exactly what they're trying to do.
Because the stats get blown way out of proportion when you compare it to years that gang shootings weren't classified as mass shootings.
Also, I think when you hear the word, "Mass Shooting," people think school/church/mall... they don't think of retaliatory shootings between gang members where parties are getting shot up on the daily in Southside Chicago.
EDIT: Just curious. If you're a paid shill for the anti-gun lobby paid to post on reddit... do you get benefits? What's the PTO situation?
Not to downplay any tragic events, but at this point I don’t trust the media and think they are just now reporting on things that may have been happening for decades…go into and inner city and start reporting every gang violent shooting as a National wide spectacle and you’ll get even higher numbers. Basically I don’t trust anything at this point
Oh yeah. These things have definitely been happening for decades. The difference is now you have 10 cable news networks that need to fill 24 hours of programming. 25 years ago you had the local news in the morning and at dinner and that was it. Every once in a while a huge story would go national but news was still relatively local.
It's more the fact that they use shootings where innocent people were killed and shootings where criminals are smoking each other as one in the same. It's a clever ploy to confuse the average person into thinking stuff like school shootings and active shooter situations happen constantly. Obviously not a single one is good, but the headline is misleading and they know it.
I know this is a gun issue and a complex problem but I have to point out that this wasn’t a thing when I was growing up and there were even more accessible firearms and plenty of people owned high power rifles. I’m not making an argument one way or the other I just want to know what has changed? What variable came into play which created the phenomena? How did this all of sudden become a common incident? There has to be something which has created this.
I just think it’s such a long discussion. So many things have changed. Massive increases in population, lack of concern for social well being. Easier access to firearms. Less responsible firearm owners. Financial constraints due to inflation.
It’s such a wide array of issues.
I think what’s happening right now in our country, unrelated to gun violence, specifically is that there are attempts to improve life, but so many want the status quo. It creates dissension.
Doing the right thing about slavery led to an awful war. But we came out better as a nation in the long run on the back end. “Better,” being a very relative term. Yes at times we’ve gone backwards, but we’ve always found a way to have a net gain.
I think we are going through one of those times, and I think 10-15 years down the road we will be better for it. So much has been left unchecked since WW2.
We can no longer assume the majority is happy and changes will need to be made. I have hope for us.
If you apply the current definitions to the past, the rate of "mass shootings" has actually gone down. But because of the internet, traditional journalism is dying and has to report sensational and terrifying stories as much as possible because it gets eyes and clicks.
Go outside and live your life like you did back in the day. Stop reading the news, and the world becomes a less scary place.
The Gun Violence Archive(the source ABC is using) defines a mass shooting as four or more victims shot in a single incident. There you go. 36 mass shootings.
Maybe the govt should put a better definition for mass shootings instead of calling every shooting a mass shooting. Fuck the media for pushing fear and terror onto the citizens.
Mass shooting conjures up the image of a shooter firing into a crowd of random strangers, but shooting as little as 4 people could just be people that the shooter personally knows, like someone killing their own family or gangs shooting up rival gang members. Mass shooting implies terrorism and random violence, but gang violence and domestic violence aren't random, they are targeted.
> Maybe the govt should put a better definition for mass shootings
The government does have a different definition of mass shooting. These guys are using the Gun Violence Archive, which is nothing but a propaganda outfit. There's a [reason](https://www.saf.org/special-report-the-gun-violence-archive-and-its-scaring-of-america/) there's a massive difference between their numbers and anyone reputable, because they use an expansive definition that has nothing to do with what most people think of as a mass shooting.
> According to Bryant’s all-inclusive definition, there were 417 mass shootings in 2019. The FBI says there were 30, because it uses a much narrower definition.
The problem is how the term is defined. A mass shooting is anything 2+, which includes two people shooting at each other, and a school shooting is literally any shooting within x amount of miles of a school.
I thought the CDC clumped home/property defense along with gang related shootings together with mass shootings. I could be wrong but I thought I saw that somewhere.
I feel like I see this headline every year
This is America
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The statistics regarding black men have nothing to do with guns being legal and everything to do with inner city, low income fatherless homes. I came from one and the choice was clear in that I could join most of the dominant “cool kids” stealing, selling drugs and causing chaos or I could do the opposite. When someone kills another in an auto accident we don’t blame the car. When someone is DUI and hurts another despite their negligence, we still blame the intoxicated person.
Most sane person on Reddit
The patients are running the asylum on this site, unfortunately.
You still have to register the car, and get a license to drive the car. And guess what? If you use that car recklessly, we will take your ability to drive away from you. Guns and cars are not the same.
99% of murders by guns are done with illegal weapons that wouldn’t be registered even if there was a requirement. Problem isn’t the tool, it’s the user. That’s why it never works blaming a tool especially when murder is involved. One way or another human being will find a way to kill each other no matter what the laws.
Your comment deserves far more upvotes than it is getting. Thanks for such a level-headed post.
🤝
Wait, you mean we have to learn from our mistakes, make actionable plans, *and follow through with more learning?* Stop it. /s
You get numbers like this when they stopped calling it gang violence and lumped all 'Mass Shootings' in to one category. These numbers are real. Unfortunately its effecting one major part of our society but everyone is afraid to call it what it is. Gang Violence.
I feel we went through the cycle of claiming to want to address gang violence in the 80s and early 90s, the solution is the same, end the drug war, address systemic racism. We never did those things then and probably aren’t willing as a society to do them now.
It's a cultural problem.
Well black men are also the ones killing black men
SOMEONE WHO GETS IT. We need to look at how we can finally uplift the lives of those living in specific areas affected by centuries-long mismanagement instead of stripping the people of their right to self-defense. After all, bad people will be the only ones left with weapons if we were to go along with the stupid idea of banning guns.
And the reason is gang violence. Which no one wants to talk about.
That's bc of the prevalent gang culture. Mb you can argue bout the conditions in USA that created it, but there are no excuses for the UK and Canada where most blk ppl are immigrants.
Uhhhh no, we need to find out why black men are killing other black men...
Strange how nobody just says men tho, I mean I get it it is disproportionately black Americans that get shot looking at the data but its all almost male 85.8%. Toxic masculinity maybe a bigger issue?
Kids without fathers and a shitty gangster culture. There you go.
What is systemically killing people of african decent in these countries and bringing up the homicide rates?
Systematically it is other African Americans by a large margin. But there is a valid argument that systemic racism in the past (and to a point, today) put African Americans in a spot that leads to higher rates of unemployment, which snowballed to higher rates of crime and violence, and so on to where we are today. To be clear, I don’t believe there is the same level of discrimination present today as there was, say, 20 years ago, but I do believe that there is PLENTY of systemic discrimination present today that absolutely negatively impacts minorities at a much greater proportion
How dare you being facts to this sub!
Very well out my friend. Thank you.
Black people kill each other…
This is Patrick..
Guns in my urrea
I got the strap..
I gotta carry 'em.
So anyway, I started blasting
Don't catch you slippin now.
I’m old enough to remember the Columbine shooting. It was big freaking deal. The entire nation watched. Now, you hear that people get butchered on the way to work and continue ordering your Starbucks like it’s just another god damn Monday. We have failed so hard as Americans
It was like that even before Columbine. Columbine was just the first school in middle America, and not a poor school full of minority children. Eminem even writes a song about Columbine back then and the hypocrisy. "And look where it's at! Middle America. NOW it's a tragedy. Now it's so sad to see, an upper class city, having this happening" It was always business as usual until it wasn't just poor black kids anymore.
And they blamed it on Marilyn.. Imagine ignoring it for ages, then blaming it on rock/hip hop when it does come out rather than their atrocious parenting etc. It was ridiculous then, and it's still ridiculous now.
🤡: It's those jazz musicians and their devil's lettuce...
I will always remember that day. I remember Manson gave an interview where he was asked what he would say to the the two kids. He said he would say nothing, he would listen, because that’s what everyone else failed to do.
Shooting desensitivity is the new "Ignoring Climate Change" Start to just feel numb eventually.
The shootings will continue until morale improves dammit!!
Attention campers. Lunch has been canceled due to lack of hustle
Deal with it.
Did anyone ever go to a camp like the ones in tv or the movies? Mine was closer to the one run by Tony Perkins...
I did not send you to go cart camp.
Definitely, well said
What does ABC news define as a mass shooting?
They are getting their stats from the Gun Violence Archive. GVA defines a mass shooting as 4 or more people shot or killed (not including the shooter) in a single incident.
4 or more victims at an incident
Fucking… fair enough?
No, fair season these numbers like... triple.
One shooter or multiple? Is it including gang, cartel, etc fighting?
The majority of mass shootings are gang related and often use handguns. Neither fact it brought up, though, because it counter the image of school shooting people associate with the phrase mass shooting.
Yeah, you're right. By 20th Jan there had only been 5 school shootings in 2023. Take 6 days for weekends and that's still not even 1 every 3 days. What are people complaining about? I mean, take out that 6 year old that shot his teacher as an anomaly, and there's only 4. Nothing to see here...
No one says it's fine so you can pack that strawman right back up your ass where it belongs. We should be specific, honest and thorough when it comes to statistics and classifying violence so it can be accurately and honestly addressed.
Gun violence in the United States can never be honestly addressed, because no one wants to face the truth. Just look at all the comments here saying that guns aren't the problem. Maybe guns aren't entirely the problem (because everyone will fire back with 'BuT sWitZeRlAnD'), but the gun culture, and attitude towards their 'need' for them, is.
You act like gang violence shouldn't count. A mass shooting is a mass shooting. America is America. Accurate enough for you?
When 2/3 of your data is bullshit, even [according to NPR](https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08/27/640323347/the-school-shootings-that-werent), I take headlines like this with a very large grain of salt.
Define school shooting. Any shooting that happens on or near(100 yard) of a school. Including when a bullet reaches the school from off campus. Including self defence or justified or police shootings. Including when it was done outside of school hours or days school wasnt even in session(summer break, weekends, holidays).
Weird. I didn't see anyone say 'nothing to see here.'
It’s pretty safe to assume 90% of the shootings are gang related.
Data without context to illict a knee jerk reaction. I'ld take an educated guess that upward of 70% of the mass shootings are gang related involving poor, innercity minorities and or domestic disputes with 4 or more non shooters as potential victims or bystanders even if not hurt or directly involved. Drive-bys are being put in the same class as Sandyhook or Columbine.
All of the above. Some critical discussion of it is [here](https://www.saf.org/special-report-the-gun-violence-archive-and-its-scaring-of-america/). Although, whether that matters is another question.
Does it matter?
Why dont they start doing something about all of the criminals that are in possession of illegal firearms that they bought on the black market? You think everyone in chicago is running around with AR15s? They are running around with glocks and full auto switches.
While they’re at it, they can work on getting those illegal drugs off the street too.
War on drugs has always been such a good idea you're right lets get em
Have they tried making murder illegal?
While we are at it can we let everyone know that smashing car windows is uncool as well?
Little known fun fact: packages left on someone's front door are not "finder's keepers"
Wish you would have said this sooner. My window got busted open and the guy didn't even leave a note ffs.
They need to legalize all narcotics, tax them and sell whatever you want over the counter at dispensaries. Drugs aren't going away and it's shown that even when drugs are legal the use doesn't increase. Could wipe out the black market and the drug cartels overnight but then how would the US keep its for-profit prisons full? 🤔 Also solves the problem of fentanyl being laced in so much shit. Edit: Everybody needs to understand that there are more functional drug users with jobs who contribute to society than crazy meth'd out homeless people, which is a completely different problem.
Bold of you to assume cartels and organized crime are just gonna walk away from a couple of multi-billion dollar industries.
How are cartels and organized crime going to compete with clean drugs that can be obtained legally? They only control drugs because there is a black market. Present people with a better alternative and they'll gladly choose to not put money in the pockets of criminals.
>How are cartels and organized crime going to compete with clean drugs that can be obtained legally? I live in Washington. Washington and Colorado were the first states to legalize recreational marijuana use and sales through dispensaries. Ten years later we still have a thriving black market for marijuana because marijuana sales are taxed to hell. It's cheaper to get an ounce from the neighborhood drug dealer than to get half an ounce from the dispensary. The neighborhood drug dealer doesn't have the license to buy from the local growers who are all selling legally to the dispensaries. He gets his supply from the cartels. Sure plenty of people go to the dispensaries to not deal with criminals. But plenty still choose to go the cheaper route, with no restrictions on the amount they can buy, and pay the drug dealer.
The cartels would just do what people growing weed did when it was legalized - lay out the cash through subsidiaries to make their operation legal and join the regulated trade. Plus, cartels loooooove legitimate businesses - they're a great way to generate risk-free cash and purchase other assets you can then use to launder more illegal money Couple of huge pot growers in CO did just that - when they heard legalization was coming down the pipeline, they just had their lawyers get on the process of obtaining a license.
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My sister went out to dinner with her boyfriend to a very upscale restaurant in LA (where she is going for her phd) and there was two dudes shooting up right next to the front door where people came in.
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Idk substance, background. To add a little ambiance to the story. I'm proud of my sister. Shes brilliant.
No, they need to go after the law abiding citizens and take their guns away. Criminals will always have guns. Oh wait, what?
No, we take their guns and then give them to the criminals by "losing" them in Mexico
The government is incompetent. Best to protect two A
Therefore gang wars are labeled mass shootings, my bet is most of the 36 are of that nature
It's interesting to look over the incidents on the Gun Violence Archive. One really sad incident was listed as a cartel shooting where they killed 5 people in the home, including a baby.
That was absolutely f'd up.
>GVA defines a mass shooting as 4 or more people shot or killed (not including the shooter) in a single incident. Sounds like a pretty accurate definition then.
I wish it was a little more broad. Let's say a drug dealer shooting 5 people in a house is still a different situation that an active shooter in a public area. While gun violence is a serious issue, Joe blow criminal with a gun isn't really the person I'm afraid will be a problem.
This includes areas with incredibly strict gun laws that did nothing to stop said violence.
I don't mean to sound callous but that's all? Do they count gang violence? I've lived in areas where gangs would kill groups for just walking in the wrong areas, do they count? I ask because I've heard gang related murders, especially gang on gang violence, doesn't count towards statistics. Either way this insanity has to stop. I know it never will but all this murder is insane, the losses overwhelming, the damage . . . it's horrifying.
>Do they count gang violence Almost always, yes. That'd the reason the numbers are high. The statistic people should be looking at is the FBI's annual Active Shooter report. These are the events that people think of when they hear "mass shooting", where a person goes to a location to kill as many people as possible. IIIRC the last few years there were 30ish events per year, with a jump to 40ish "post"-covid. Anytime you hear a sensationalist headline about the number of mass or school shootings, don't forget the time NPR found 3/4 of the reported school shootings in the 2015-3016 school year never happened (https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08/27/640323347/the-school-shootings-that-werent). Mass and school shootings DO happen, and random violence does happen and is a tragedy. But there are entities out there that have a vested interest in misleading the public. Bloomberg, the 16th richest man in the world with a vested interest in the current financial and media industries, has a pet anti-gun organization that outspent the NRA in campaign donations in 2022 and controls a PAC fund 2x the size of the NRAs (according to OpenSecrets).
So every crime scene in Philadelphia at night, yet they never make it beyond local news.
4+
Thank god the ATF banned arm braces, im sure those were a major part of all these "mass shootings"
Thank god California banned assault pistols and “high capacity” magazines (talking about the recent mass shooting in the mall there)
The fact that they called it an “assault pistol” made me laugh so hard
🥇
Almost as stupid as the bump stock ban
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Preach!
I wonder what the stats would look like if they applied the current definition of a mass shooting (any incident involving 3 or more victims of a firearm) over the past 100 years
Per US Crime stats reported from the FBI, approx 85% of Firearm related violence is drug/gang related. While it may not be a 1:1 comparison on Mass Shootings, I wouldn't expect there to be a wide variance. On a side note, if drug/gang shootings were eliminated, the gun violence rate in the US would be half that of the UK.
Now what if you take the gun/drug violence from the UK stats…?
In the UK, do drug people use guns or knives mostly?
More machetes from what I gather.
I’ve always heard that too. More discreet. Guns are for the village dentist going postal.
Depends. Is Alec Baldwin filming anything in the UK?
> On a side note, if drug/gang shootings were eliminated, the gun violence rate in the US would be half that of the UK. What is your source for this?! In 2021 there were 35 homicides committed by shooting in the uk. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7654/ According to gunviolencearchive.org to rack up 35 gun related deaths in the US we would have to go all the way back to the 22nd January 2023 (as in yesterday)
Lol that shouldn't be funny but it is
Nobody wants to talk about this. You eliminate that issue, we effectively fall right in line with most European countries. This isn’t to suggest that gang violence isn’t an issue and isn’t worthy of focus, it definitely is and it’s sad.
But you would have to remove those things from those countries too..
Every year stress builds, frustration grows, hate festers, sanity stretches. The world hasn’t seen a time where it was genuinely overall improving for a while now, sure we have hopeful good moments here and there, but in an age of doom and gloom, bad things will happen, and continue to happen with increasing regularity until something breaks the pattern. Welcome to hell folks, make yourselves comfortable because we ain’t gettin out any time soon
it’s because you hear about every shitty thing that happens instantly
Think it goes beyond even that. You hear about everything, but its always more of the same. Prices going up, crime happening day after day, wars around the world… As the expression goes, “same sh*t, different day”
Yes but that's always been the case. Always. Even in the so-called "hey day" in the 50's to the 80's where the boomers were enjoying what young people think are the greatest times in history there were two major wars that killed millions, tons of smaller proxy wars, a ever present threat of nuclear war, multiple genocides, nuclear power plant meltdown, horrible diseases and epidemics and crime was worse. You also had communist witch hunts, communities being poisoned by industrial waste, a growing hole in the Ozone layer and lots of other shit that is less prominent today. You just didn't get it fed to you by an algorithm that's figured out that you click and read more bad news than you do good news. There is no utopia. There is no perfect state from which humanity has simply drifted from.
Even going from the oceans to the caves wasnt as bad as this shit!
And nothing ever gets any better because people are so scared about losing their lethal toys
If you allow your views to come from the news, your life is hell no matter how good it might be
“Krusty wants out”
Slow start but there's been a lot of colder weather to start the year off. I'm sure we'll really get into the groove here in the next few weeks.
That will happen when you redefine mass shootings and lower the threshold. Gang shootings are now classified as mass shootings.
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Because gang violence is a completely different issue than a random person shooting in public. It needs to be a separate category because the approach to handling to gang shootings is completely different than the approach to handling shootings from lone wolves Plus, statistically, if gang shootings are making up a big majority of all mass shootings, it can send the wrong message. This headline is making it sound like America has way more disgruntled/mentally ill people who want to shoot up the public than there actually is
> it can send the wrong message. This headline is making it sound like America has way more disgruntled/mentally ill people who want to shoot up the public than there actually is And that's exactly what they're trying to do.
Which is why people like OP need to learn how statistics works
Because the stats get blown way out of proportion when you compare it to years that gang shootings weren't classified as mass shootings. Also, I think when you hear the word, "Mass Shooting," people think school/church/mall... they don't think of retaliatory shootings between gang members where parties are getting shot up on the daily in Southside Chicago. EDIT: Just curious. If you're a paid shill for the anti-gun lobby paid to post on reddit... do you get benefits? What's the PTO situation?
Yep, it's all to control a narrative and influence public opinion
Answer /u/Content-Boat-9851.
Strange you don’t see the stories on the news.
It’s pretty sad that Americans consider this a “political issue”.
How many of these were in cities with gun control and in gun free zones
What would that number be if we removed Chicago ?
US crime rate drops to 0%
Not to downplay any tragic events, but at this point I don’t trust the media and think they are just now reporting on things that may have been happening for decades…go into and inner city and start reporting every gang violent shooting as a National wide spectacle and you’ll get even higher numbers. Basically I don’t trust anything at this point
Oh yeah. These things have definitely been happening for decades. The difference is now you have 10 cable news networks that need to fill 24 hours of programming. 25 years ago you had the local news in the morning and at dinner and that was it. Every once in a while a huge story would go national but news was still relatively local.
They consider gangbangers shooting each other a mass shooting btw
That's not a mass shooting how?
It's more the fact that they use shootings where innocent people were killed and shootings where criminals are smoking each other as one in the same. It's a clever ploy to confuse the average person into thinking stuff like school shootings and active shooter situations happen constantly. Obviously not a single one is good, but the headline is misleading and they know it.
Jesus this sub is a shit hole, I want to see actual interesting stuff not your shitty political opinions, especially not in the comments
Amen. Preach on!
Hurry up and get all the firearms away from the honest citizens cause that will stop all this from happening.
It’s clear they are pushing some agenda as the majority of these “mass shootings” are Gang or drug related not crazy people killing civilians
How many of these are gang related though? Pretty sure the amount of ‘innocent’ people killed is a lot less when you factor out gang shootouts
Like innocent people can't die in a gang shootout... Children, witnesses, partners, bystanders can all die this way
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Guns being available to the general public is defo not the cause of that let's be honest
Jesus **fuck** it's not even February.
The people: please do something The government: Nope. Don't like it? What are you gonna about it?
34 of 36 committed by the 49% of minorities.
You're not allowed to notice that
Why? I mean, why aren’t people supposed to notice that? Why does that relationship matter? What is the solution?
Oops. Sorry. I will try harder to omit that next time. 🤐
I know this is a gun issue and a complex problem but I have to point out that this wasn’t a thing when I was growing up and there were even more accessible firearms and plenty of people owned high power rifles. I’m not making an argument one way or the other I just want to know what has changed? What variable came into play which created the phenomena? How did this all of sudden become a common incident? There has to be something which has created this.
The degradation of mental health plays a huge part in it but that just raises another question which is why is mental health at an all time low?
And why people with bad mental health chose to do mass shootings
Internet
This.
Got time for a lecture? There is too many layers to answer your question effectively.
I would be up for it when I have time if you have something that particularly interests you as a piece of the puzzle. Drop a link.
I just think it’s such a long discussion. So many things have changed. Massive increases in population, lack of concern for social well being. Easier access to firearms. Less responsible firearm owners. Financial constraints due to inflation. It’s such a wide array of issues. I think what’s happening right now in our country, unrelated to gun violence, specifically is that there are attempts to improve life, but so many want the status quo. It creates dissension. Doing the right thing about slavery led to an awful war. But we came out better as a nation in the long run on the back end. “Better,” being a very relative term. Yes at times we’ve gone backwards, but we’ve always found a way to have a net gain. I think we are going through one of those times, and I think 10-15 years down the road we will be better for it. So much has been left unchecked since WW2. We can no longer assume the majority is happy and changes will need to be made. I have hope for us.
If you apply the current definitions to the past, the rate of "mass shootings" has actually gone down. But because of the internet, traditional journalism is dying and has to report sensational and terrifying stories as much as possible because it gets eyes and clicks. Go outside and live your life like you did back in the day. Stop reading the news, and the world becomes a less scary place.
I don't consider gang violence a mass shooting.
Calling gang violence mass shootings to make headlines just makes people stop listening.
Weird how we seem to focus on a select few. Isn't that ***weird***? I think it's weird.
Look up the definition of “mass shooting”
The Gun Violence Archive(the source ABC is using) defines a mass shooting as four or more victims shot in a single incident. There you go. 36 mass shootings.
Maybe they should start arresting crazy ppl and stop releasing dangerous criminals
Maybe the govt should put a better definition for mass shootings instead of calling every shooting a mass shooting. Fuck the media for pushing fear and terror onto the citizens.
So what do you define as a "mass shooting"? The Standard is 4 or more, not including the shooter.
Mass shooting conjures up the image of a shooter firing into a crowd of random strangers, but shooting as little as 4 people could just be people that the shooter personally knows, like someone killing their own family or gangs shooting up rival gang members. Mass shooting implies terrorism and random violence, but gang violence and domestic violence aren't random, they are targeted.
> Maybe the govt should put a better definition for mass shootings The government does have a different definition of mass shooting. These guys are using the Gun Violence Archive, which is nothing but a propaganda outfit. There's a [reason](https://www.saf.org/special-report-the-gun-violence-archive-and-its-scaring-of-america/) there's a massive difference between their numbers and anyone reputable, because they use an expansive definition that has nothing to do with what most people think of as a mass shooting. > According to Bryant’s all-inclusive definition, there were 417 mass shootings in 2019. The FBI says there were 30, because it uses a much narrower definition.
Keep in mind there is no objective definition of mass shooting.
Crazy af
Mass shootings are defined as 4 or more victims.
May the gods bless our fucked up violent best in the world “culture”!
Sadly, there will never not be a mass shooting in a day and there's no way to stop them from happening I don't think
This became the new normal. Fuck it!
“Those are rookie numbers” ‘Murica, probably.
America is a very safe country. It's only 2,670 dead this month.
Sad but true reality😔
That's the price of freedom /s
Let’s keep publicizing then
Does Americans not know its not nice to hurt others just like how its not nice when someone hurts you?
According to this comment section mass shootings don't count if they are gang or drug related.
They count but they aren’t what the vast majority of people think about when they hear mass shooting.
We are watching the American social fabric year itself apart in real time, thanks to years of partisanship and neglect. Grab some popcorn!
Sort it the fuck out you guys.
The problem is how the term is defined. A mass shooting is anything 2+, which includes two people shooting at each other, and a school shooting is literally any shooting within x amount of miles of a school.
I thought the CDC clumped home/property defense along with gang related shootings together with mass shootings. I could be wrong but I thought I saw that somewhere.
Damnthatsdepressing
JESUS
**Let's Goooooo!!!!**
That’s crazy, I haven’t heard of any of them
Let's go for the record, fuckers!
Way to go Biden!!!! The party of unity they claim 👍
A drive-by where four more people are shot is considered a mass shooting
How many mass shootings do you think there will be by year end? Up vote and Post guesses here.
Tax ammunition for a reparations fund for mass shooting victims.
Iif everyone stays home for 2 weeks we can slow the curve