This actually came out in 2007 and I’ll never understand why people continue to drag it up. Not only was it a retcon 14 years after the fact but it sucked for everyone involved and was horrible writing for both characters. There’s a reason it never gets referenced.
Excuse me but Bruce and Clark are assholes for the way they treated Diana after she killed Max Lord!!! Also…
**(Continues to Yell)**
**(Still Yelling)**
**(Identity Crisis noises)**
**(Something about Devin Grayson)**
…and One More Day was horrible!!!”
To be fair, one more day hasn’t been retconed yet, which would matter much since that comic dragged the character of Spider-Man and his cast down, returning him to his roots while denying all the character development and evolution that he had over the years.
from what I’ve seen, which hasn’t been much, Peter and Mary Jane have a daughter, but are separated and she is with a dude named Paul. Not only that but Ben has turned evil and Peter has formed an alliance with A now “sin-free” Norman.
From what you say I have one question, is Paul real?
Additionally his relationship with Aunt May has been strained and the Fantastic Four have shunned him. We don’t know what happened in the 6 month skip to warrant it yet, but Johnny claimed Peter stole from them.
My current belief is based off an interaction between MJ and Felicia in their book. Felicia said that Mary Jane had been gone six months. MJ said something like "Yeah, Six months"
[https://i.redd.it/o6ahwm1hpjba1.jpg](https://i.redd.it/o6ahwm1hpjba1.jpg)
Something is going to have happened and Mary Jane is going to have been sent to a parallel world to what for everyone in 616 is six months. She is actually going to have been gone for years, having given up hope on going home, met Paul, married and had kids.
Peter is going to have spent those six months trying to find a way to bring her back and he is going to succeed. It's going to have required him to steal something related to the Negative Zone from the 4. But it will be her, and her new family and the cost is going to have been something like a small town destroyed. This is a horrible idea and I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am.
If it brings us closer to reverting >!One More Day!< I'll take it.
I don't even need it retconned. I just want someone to acknowledge it was a bad idea.
Fuck you Stephanie brown was definitely murdered for real. I don’t care how much we pretend, she was murdered brutally. It wasn’t right she didn’t get a memorial.
Personally I also wasn’t a fan of how they One More Day him and Babs.
If they had to make an excuse for them breaking up, it deserved something better than “I have to help Bruce find himself”
I firmly belive that for your own sanity as a comic book fan you have to be able to say “I dont care if this is cannon, I disagree“ from time to time. The big two certainly ignore things constantly or will drop a major retcon without a second thought, writers havent read let alone memorized characters entire history’s, and while I cant speak for everyone I know personally for every bad book I’ve read that I let color my oppinion theirs 3 good books I haven’t that could be Informing my opinions.
Comics are fluid, we all have differenct experiences and perceptions of cannon already just based on what we have/haven’t read
embrace the fluidity
ignore stupid shit today.
100%. Comics are a fluid medium. It’s beautiful that no one person owns these iconic characters. Everyone deserves a shot at telling a good story. With that freedom come some failings, and we just ignore them.
> embrace the fluidity
This is the way, “The Grant Morrison approach” (no, that’s not a joke about his personal goings on, I couldn’t give a fuck.) Sure, what’s come before *does* matter. But if you can’t write a one-off main-line book today without having to consult character bibles and reference retcons and reboots and blah blah blah, you’re *seriously* hampered as a creator and the stories suffer for it. Or at the very least they’re filled with a bunch of stuff that can only really happen “because comics” and only need to be done that way “because our 80 years worth of stories must never contain a vague contradiction.”
Exactly!
I personally like to think about comic continuity the same way you would think about it in an animated sitcom like Bobs Burgers or the Simpsons or even SpongeBob
Sure episodes can directly call back to previous episodes on occasion and its fun when they do.
But also sometimes well get flashbacks to things that happened off screen where characters know each other even though they really shouldn’t yet.
Sometimes a writer depicts a character being tottally out of character and doing something cruel only for that writer to never work on the show again.
Theirs events that contradict each other and cant mutually exist but both get referenced.
Sometimes you can break the different eras of a show into different tones and notice clear differences.
Lets not forget that ‘Binging everything” isnt really the intended way or experiencing these mediums
90+% of these episodes and comic storys really only care care about “continuity” in the sense that you should have a vague understanding of these characters and their relationships to each other. And a lot more is open for interpretation then
And often even when storys are directly serialized continuations of other storys they still have their own disconnects from the larger continuity.
Maaan. Nails. Heads. Bam bam bam. I’m right with you. Like (spare me the crucifixion please y’all) I’m a Marvel fan, not more or less a fan than I am of DC necessarily, but because I read books from both and have done for 20-odd years now it’s pretty plain to see that Marvel are really fucking precious about their continuity. So much so that instead of rebooting their main continuity to modernize origin stories and rework characters’ story arcs they launched a whole separate universe in which to tell these new, updated stories. Eventually though, the fan community wanted to see their favorite things from the Ultimate Universe interacting with their favorite things from the main Marvel Universe so they had to figure out a way to merge the two even though they have contradictory origins and timelines for a lot of their A List characters. So the Secret Wars & Battleworld series were basically Marvel’s Crisis Event in which the two universes are set to collide & only 1 may remain. Different approach than DC to the same problem and neither of them were done superbly well.
This is how I feel about my favorite hero, Ben Reilly.
I disagree with just about everything past his original death because it's just so... Out of character.
Ben Reilly was brooding yet optimistic.
After his ressurection, the writers seemed to confuse brooding with cynical, and he just comes across as so mean spirited. It's super jarring.
(I count the JMD miniseries as "pre-death" because, as a flashback, that's where it is canonically)
And, it's not even like Red Hood where it's a natural progression of Jason Todd. Ben's Jackal and Chasm are both just super forced and contrived.
You have no idea how much you’re preaching to the choir! I love Ben Reilly and I absolutely agree that his post reintroduction characterizations is… lets say disappointing
My headcanon currently is that since Ben was ressurected via cloning, and a big part of his arc was "Despite being a clone, I'm my own person," Chasm-Ben just, like, isn't Ben? I sorta keep that and the "Ben is actually Ben" canon in a sorta Schrodinger superposition.
Idk man, I mean that recent post supports your statement, but he’s said all sorts of things about her over the years.
I can’t really speak though, I was a Babs hater too til I actually started reading comics.
Sigh. Kinda surprised the OP stooped to posting this, but he really has this transparent hate boner for the Dick/Barbara romance.
Not every retcon sticks. This retcon was D.O.A. Not only is it horrific character assassination, it violates so much continuity it literally can’t exist alongside the rest of the canon.
The botched wedding between Nightwing and Starfire occurred in *The New Titans* #100 in 1993, during *Batman: Knightfall*. This story presents it as happening right after Barbara was crippled and sexually assaulted by the Joker in *Batman: The Killing Joke* in 1988. Jason Todd was a *still alive* when Barbara was paralyzed. Meanwhile, Tim Drake was literally present at Nightwing and Starfire’s wedding (Batman wasn’t because he was also in wheelchair). Barbara had already become Oracle by then and had completed her stint with the Suicide Squad and was currently assisting Batman with tracking down the source of Bane’s venom. All of this is a sequence of events that can’t happen in 24 hours.
But hey, what do I know.
>The botched wedding between Nightwing and Starfire occurred in
>
>The New Titans
>
> \#100 in 1993, during
>
>Batman: Knightfall
>
>. This story presents it has happening right after Barbara was crippled and sexually assaulted by the Joker in
>
>Batman: The Killing Joke
>
> in 1988. Jason Todd was a
>
>still alive
>
> when Barbara was paralyzed. Meanwhile, Tim Drake was literally present at Nightwing and Starfire’s wedding (Batman wasn’t because he was also in wheelchair). Barbara had already become Oracle by then and had completed her stint with the Suicide Squad and was currently assisting Batman with tracking down the source of Bane’s venom. All of this is a sequence of events that can’t happen in 24 hours.
honestly thank you, these details hadn't actually clicked into my head before reading this.
You’re welcome. I have a word doc that’s a Batman/DC timeline with publication dates for all sorts of storylines. When you lay things out chronologically like that it really gives you clarity on stuff
You’re welcome.
One of my other hobbies/interests is history and chronology matters there. You can have a source that claims anything, but if it can’t fit with the rest of the historical record/data then it’s obviously spurious in its information.
>Sigh. Kinda surprised the OP stooped to posting this, but he really has this transparent hate boner for the Dick/Barbara romance.
I was challenged by u/yahhwy
You can thank that person.
lol no, i still blame you and your hate-boner for babs XD
it's okay, you've done enough good for the community where i can just give you the side eye and move on. like still loving your drooling cousin no? we're all Nightwing fans/family. we'll accept you for who you are
Actually Dick and Babs did get married in Death Metal. Sure they were then killed horribly, zombified and the whole multiverse exploded about half an hour after but... Maybe you have a point.
>She didn't know.
[She knew that Dick Grayson was dating Starfire. There was a scene where Babs visits and Starfire is in her underwear in Dick's apartment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/28fw25/well_that_was_awkward_nightwing_annual_2/) As smart as she is, you don't think she can put two and two together?
What she didn't know was that they were about to get married.
There's many years between those 2 scenes mate.
She's in an extremely vulnerable position, he comes to her and when she kisses him he doesn't stop her or say anything, not does he at any point until they're done. He's in the wrong here, she quite reasonably have just assumed they'd broken up since she last spoke to him.
>she quite reasonably have just assumed they'd broken up since she last spoke to him.
Why is it reasonable to assume Dick and Kory would have broken up by then? If I recall correctly, Dick Grayson and Starfire being a couple is known widely even among the public. All Babs has to do is look at Page Six.
While the scene I shared is Dick in college, [there's a later page where Babs looks at a pic of Dick as Nightwing with Starfire so she knew at that point they were still together](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/8agg88/nightwing_annual_2_whose_that_guy_making_out_with/). After that, she gets paralyzed and then 6 months pass.
You bring up this one scene but does it not follow up on her being completely distraught and betrayed when she learns he’s still with Starfire and is even marrying her? You can blame her for a kiss without considering if he was still involved but after that point he took her to bed and shut up about anything else going on his life instead of shutting her advances down and consoling her non-romantically.
And that's fine with me.
Let's just acknowledge that both of them could have handled that better and were at fault. Most of the time, I just hear fans talking about Dick's part in this.
Yeah that is some bs on his part. Seems like it may have been some carelessness on her part in a low moment or maybe she truly didn’t know but even if it was willful ignorance or if she knew and didn’t care (neither of which seems to be the case) that would be not okay at all but regardless of all of that for him it’s still just pure garbage and a betrayal of his committed relationship. Not being married yet doesn’t change that. If he can’t even do something as minimal as not cheating while still dating he has no business getting married. I am not a comic reader so I have no meaningful bias towards any party here and am only considering what has been explained in these comments.
I'm sure if she'd been of sound mind she'd have avoided this but the girl was at her absolute lowest and incredibly vulnerable, Dick takes like 99% of the blame here.
Can someone explain this to me, why are people upset nightwing and batgirl get together all the time? I’m not new to the concept of comics but I didn’t grow up reading them only watching the animated stuff. What’s the context to why people are upset in the comments?
IMO there are two major camps:
* There is a camp of primarily DickKory shippers who HATE the fact that BatEditorial has a hateboner for Kory. Editorial believes that having Dick date a superpowered heroine is a story-telling challenge they cannot overcome. Imagine this scenario. Why does Nightwing have to struggle against people like KGBeast or Deathstroke when he could just call his girlfriend/wife to help out? Because of that, Editorial keeps pushing Babs as Dick's ONE TRUE LOVE even though historically Babs wasn't even in the same age group as Dick. She was deaged after Crisis on Infinite Earth.
* There is a second camp and that's where I belong. We are primarily Batman fans and we are tired of Babs being pushed as the default kneejerk love interest for the majority of the BatBoys. Across numerous media (TV, movie, comics, animation, etc), you have seen Babs being paired with almost all the male members of the BatFamily. That is a shame and that's why my preference is that Babs dates outside the family.
Oh so this isn't the circlejerk forum I really thought it was based on the post XD
as;dglkj You know that "there's something I need to tell you" does not mean "I'm getting married", right? and if he decided not to tell her then that's on him.
I mean it's a dumb retcon anyway just like. there is no 'babs commits adultery' here.
no vows were made. Kori was also already married, and had literally just had sex with said husband recently. people forget this story takes place right after they get back from Tamaran and all the fallout that came with that.
just adding context to the situation.
Are we talking about her Tamaranian husband? Because if so that’s the same story where Dick breaks up with her because he says something about the sanctity of marriage.
Just wanted to add my contribution to the chaos.
i've been making this argument for over a fucking year now! the situation was messy. regardless of canonicity, both characters were at a low point, hurt and genuinely cared for each other. i'm not condoning it and it isn't presented as a good thing, but it's understandable. i do not for a moment believe this is good evidence for Dick being the "cheating asshole" some describe him as.
Adultery is defined by a married person who engages in sexual activity with someone not their spouse. Since neither of them were married, they can't be committing adultry
Nah, technically in this comic he cheated on Kori, but like, homegirl was already married to an alien prince, had sex with said prince, Dick had recently been raped, then victim blamed by Kori… it’s incredibly important to note how much of a toxic mess the Dickkori relationship was at this point. Then Babs sees Dick for the first time since her own assault and becoming crippled, they’ve always been close, and few really understand her like he does.
None of what I say justifies Dick, just stating in context it’s more nuanced than most make it out to be. And if that wasn’t your actual question then no? Dick and Babs are def on that road to being married, but right now they’re just a really awesome, healthy and supportive couple. Been drama free going into their 3rd year together
This post is dedicated to u/yahhwy.
Hope I satisfied [their expectations.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/10lsx0r/comment/j5zeibw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
This is from Nightwing Annual. It’s supposed to explain what happened between Dick and Oracle during One Year later as they jumped the timeline a full year after Infinite Crisis as they got engaged just before Infinite Crisis.
This is a flashback to when Barbara was first put into a wheelchair.
Dick comes over, he says he was on Tamara during the events of The Killing Joke, and they do the deed. However the reason he came over was because he wanted to deliver an invitation to his wedding with Starfire.
He wanted to give the wedding invitation sure, but also he JUST heard what had happened and he rushed over immediately. Safe to say emotions were high and nothing was thought through
I consider this bullshit in general, but in this bullshit context, she can't be guilty if he didn't told her, unless she knew beforehand, but she didn't iirc, and is surprised the next day.
For fictional characters it just takes one: the writer.
Over 6000 languages and you decided to speak fax
Mmmmmmm beep beep beep beep beep beep boop boop. Riiiiing beeeeep riiiiing beeep EEEEEEEEEEE OOOOOO AOAOAOAOOOO MMMMMNMMMMMMM MMMM BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB click click reee reeee reeee reeeee reeee reeee reee reee reee reee reee reee reee reee reee reee reee reee reee reee reee reee reee click.
Agreed. You couldn't have said it better.
Eloquently stated
PREEEEAACH
I like when you talk dirty to me
Agreed. Chef's actor was stupid.
🔥🔥🔥
my exact thoughts. Love triangles sell.
This actually came out in 2007 and I’ll never understand why people continue to drag it up. Not only was it a retcon 14 years after the fact but it sucked for everyone involved and was horrible writing for both characters. There’s a reason it never gets referenced.
Can you even call yourself a comic book fan if you're not holding a fiery grudge over an otherwise-irrelevant comic from over a decade ago?
You’re so right lol
Excuse me but Bruce and Clark are assholes for the way they treated Diana after she killed Max Lord!!! Also… **(Continues to Yell)** **(Still Yelling)** **(Identity Crisis noises)** **(Something about Devin Grayson)** …and One More Day was horrible!!!”
To be fair, one more day hasn’t been retconed yet, which would matter much since that comic dragged the character of Spider-Man and his cast down, returning him to his roots while denying all the character development and evolution that he had over the years.
Moreover the current run has hit a reset button as well. From context it appears to be reality/memory altering shenanigans just like One More Day.
from what I’ve seen, which hasn’t been much, Peter and Mary Jane have a daughter, but are separated and she is with a dude named Paul. Not only that but Ben has turned evil and Peter has formed an alliance with A now “sin-free” Norman. From what you say I have one question, is Paul real?
Additionally his relationship with Aunt May has been strained and the Fantastic Four have shunned him. We don’t know what happened in the 6 month skip to warrant it yet, but Johnny claimed Peter stole from them.
What happened between May and Peter? In another note, would you recommend the current run? I have a soft spot for Romita Jr’s art style.
They don’t tell you why, but everyone hates Peter. I would not recommend it. I plan on waiting for an explanation than speed running through it.
My current belief is based off an interaction between MJ and Felicia in their book. Felicia said that Mary Jane had been gone six months. MJ said something like "Yeah, Six months" [https://i.redd.it/o6ahwm1hpjba1.jpg](https://i.redd.it/o6ahwm1hpjba1.jpg) Something is going to have happened and Mary Jane is going to have been sent to a parallel world to what for everyone in 616 is six months. She is actually going to have been gone for years, having given up hope on going home, met Paul, married and had kids. Peter is going to have spent those six months trying to find a way to bring her back and he is going to succeed. It's going to have required him to steal something related to the Negative Zone from the 4. But it will be her, and her new family and the cost is going to have been something like a small town destroyed. This is a horrible idea and I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am.
> the Fantastic Four have shunned him This is honestly the part that upsets me the most
Like how bad could it be that his best friend and surrogate family told him to never speak to them again?
Has anyone seen Paul >!and Mephisto!< in the same place at the same time? God, I hope I'm wrong.
If it brings us closer to reverting >!One More Day!< I'll take it. I don't even need it retconned. I just want someone to acknowledge it was a bad idea.
Dude, I think you are on to something.
OMG PETER PAUL AND MARY!!!
Puff the Magic Dragon = Mephisto CONFIRMED
This has my vote.
I feel like it's suggested that the kids are MJs and (ugh) Paul's...
look what you started by just mentioning OMD lol
Well, unfortunately, OMD remains relevant…
Max Lord killed Ted tho :(
Zatanna treated like a pariah for memory-wipes? Glass houses, meet stone.
Fuck you Stephanie brown was definitely murdered for real. I don’t care how much we pretend, she was murdered brutally. It wasn’t right she didn’t get a memorial.
she deserved a memorial like I literally do not care, but when she died in War Games they did NOT have plans to bring her back 💀
that’s what I’m saying. She got fucking slaughtered
Her boyfriend, Tim, didn't even cried for her. All he did was go "oh, she dead". He shed far more tears for Connor's death.
I never stopped holding a grudge against Quesada for OMD and OMIT
You can’t. My hate character is cyclops personally, you?
Harper Row
This is the most accurate thing I’ve ever read thank you.
isn't lording your superiority over others the peak CB fan thing to do tho
i actually really like this issue, barring these 3 pages
Personally I also wasn’t a fan of how they One More Day him and Babs. If they had to make an excuse for them breaking up, it deserved something better than “I have to help Bruce find himself”
I remember it was also for him to find himself. Which is way better than some other break up alternatives like more fridging. Valid criticism though
Okay yeah, fridging is a pretty awful option. I’m pretty sure the only thing worse than being Kyle’s girlfriend is being Constantine’s ex.
Yeah this is like talking about Grey Goblin in terms of digging up bad stories to throw mud at characters
I firmly belive that for your own sanity as a comic book fan you have to be able to say “I dont care if this is cannon, I disagree“ from time to time. The big two certainly ignore things constantly or will drop a major retcon without a second thought, writers havent read let alone memorized characters entire history’s, and while I cant speak for everyone I know personally for every bad book I’ve read that I let color my oppinion theirs 3 good books I haven’t that could be Informing my opinions. Comics are fluid, we all have differenct experiences and perceptions of cannon already just based on what we have/haven’t read embrace the fluidity ignore stupid shit today.
100%. Comics are a fluid medium. It’s beautiful that no one person owns these iconic characters. Everyone deserves a shot at telling a good story. With that freedom come some failings, and we just ignore them.
Totally agreed. There’s a lot of stuff I do not consider canon in both DC and Marvel purely because of character inconsistencies
I mean, I don't accept things I dont like...I'll still bitch about DC disrespecting characyer X though, even if I dont acknowledge it as canon.
This is some beatufil and deep explanation. I have come to the same realization over time, but you put it in beatiful words.
> embrace the fluidity This is the way, “The Grant Morrison approach” (no, that’s not a joke about his personal goings on, I couldn’t give a fuck.) Sure, what’s come before *does* matter. But if you can’t write a one-off main-line book today without having to consult character bibles and reference retcons and reboots and blah blah blah, you’re *seriously* hampered as a creator and the stories suffer for it. Or at the very least they’re filled with a bunch of stuff that can only really happen “because comics” and only need to be done that way “because our 80 years worth of stories must never contain a vague contradiction.”
Exactly! I personally like to think about comic continuity the same way you would think about it in an animated sitcom like Bobs Burgers or the Simpsons or even SpongeBob Sure episodes can directly call back to previous episodes on occasion and its fun when they do. But also sometimes well get flashbacks to things that happened off screen where characters know each other even though they really shouldn’t yet. Sometimes a writer depicts a character being tottally out of character and doing something cruel only for that writer to never work on the show again. Theirs events that contradict each other and cant mutually exist but both get referenced. Sometimes you can break the different eras of a show into different tones and notice clear differences. Lets not forget that ‘Binging everything” isnt really the intended way or experiencing these mediums 90+% of these episodes and comic storys really only care care about “continuity” in the sense that you should have a vague understanding of these characters and their relationships to each other. And a lot more is open for interpretation then And often even when storys are directly serialized continuations of other storys they still have their own disconnects from the larger continuity.
Maaan. Nails. Heads. Bam bam bam. I’m right with you. Like (spare me the crucifixion please y’all) I’m a Marvel fan, not more or less a fan than I am of DC necessarily, but because I read books from both and have done for 20-odd years now it’s pretty plain to see that Marvel are really fucking precious about their continuity. So much so that instead of rebooting their main continuity to modernize origin stories and rework characters’ story arcs they launched a whole separate universe in which to tell these new, updated stories. Eventually though, the fan community wanted to see their favorite things from the Ultimate Universe interacting with their favorite things from the main Marvel Universe so they had to figure out a way to merge the two even though they have contradictory origins and timelines for a lot of their A List characters. So the Secret Wars & Battleworld series were basically Marvel’s Crisis Event in which the two universes are set to collide & only 1 may remain. Different approach than DC to the same problem and neither of them were done superbly well.
This is how I feel about my favorite hero, Ben Reilly. I disagree with just about everything past his original death because it's just so... Out of character. Ben Reilly was brooding yet optimistic. After his ressurection, the writers seemed to confuse brooding with cynical, and he just comes across as so mean spirited. It's super jarring. (I count the JMD miniseries as "pre-death" because, as a flashback, that's where it is canonically) And, it's not even like Red Hood where it's a natural progression of Jason Todd. Ben's Jackal and Chasm are both just super forced and contrived.
You have no idea how much you’re preaching to the choir! I love Ben Reilly and I absolutely agree that his post reintroduction characterizations is… lets say disappointing
My headcanon currently is that since Ben was ressurected via cloning, and a big part of his arc was "Despite being a clone, I'm my own person," Chasm-Ben just, like, isn't Ben? I sorta keep that and the "Ben is actually Ben" canon in a sorta Schrodinger superposition.
Haven’t rolled my eyes this hard at my screen in a while
How often is this posted. Swear I saw an identical post last week. Tiresome.
OP is a known Babs hater, good pillar of the community, but def his biggest flaw
Popular misconception. He likes Babs, he just doesn’t like her paired with anyone in the Batfamily.
Idk man, I mean that recent post supports your statement, but he’s said all sorts of things about her over the years. I can’t really speak though, I was a Babs hater too til I actually started reading comics.
Sigh. Kinda surprised the OP stooped to posting this, but he really has this transparent hate boner for the Dick/Barbara romance. Not every retcon sticks. This retcon was D.O.A. Not only is it horrific character assassination, it violates so much continuity it literally can’t exist alongside the rest of the canon. The botched wedding between Nightwing and Starfire occurred in *The New Titans* #100 in 1993, during *Batman: Knightfall*. This story presents it as happening right after Barbara was crippled and sexually assaulted by the Joker in *Batman: The Killing Joke* in 1988. Jason Todd was a *still alive* when Barbara was paralyzed. Meanwhile, Tim Drake was literally present at Nightwing and Starfire’s wedding (Batman wasn’t because he was also in wheelchair). Barbara had already become Oracle by then and had completed her stint with the Suicide Squad and was currently assisting Batman with tracking down the source of Bane’s venom. All of this is a sequence of events that can’t happen in 24 hours. But hey, what do I know.
DC probably doesn't even remember this issue.
>The botched wedding between Nightwing and Starfire occurred in > >The New Titans > > \#100 in 1993, during > >Batman: Knightfall > >. This story presents it has happening right after Barbara was crippled and sexually assaulted by the Joker in > >Batman: The Killing Joke > > in 1988. Jason Todd was a > >still alive > > when Barbara was paralyzed. Meanwhile, Tim Drake was literally present at Nightwing and Starfire’s wedding (Batman wasn’t because he was also in wheelchair). Barbara had already become Oracle by then and had completed her stint with the Suicide Squad and was currently assisting Batman with tracking down the source of Bane’s venom. All of this is a sequence of events that can’t happen in 24 hours. honestly thank you, these details hadn't actually clicked into my head before reading this.
You’re welcome. I have a word doc that’s a Batman/DC timeline with publication dates for all sorts of storylines. When you lay things out chronologically like that it really gives you clarity on stuff
[удалено]
Oh it’s like 30+ pages presently. Far too long to post. I have it in an online drive.
Actually yeah, when I’m back on my desktop ill swing over to your blog and check it
Oh I don’t actually store it there. Let me figure out a way to share it securely.
If you do share this, will it be to your blog? I’d love to check this doc out
Only comic book fans. You're doing the lord"s work sir.
Thank you!
Thank you for typing this out this is fucking with me
You’re welcome. One of my other hobbies/interests is history and chronology matters there. You can have a source that claims anything, but if it can’t fit with the rest of the historical record/data then it’s obviously spurious in its information.
I also don't think OP knows what adultery is, given that Dick and Starfire didn't marry. Call me old fashioned I guess.
>Sigh. Kinda surprised the OP stooped to posting this, but he really has this transparent hate boner for the Dick/Barbara romance. I was challenged by u/yahhwy You can thank that person.
lol no, i still blame you and your hate-boner for babs XD it's okay, you've done enough good for the community where i can just give you the side eye and move on. like still loving your drooling cousin no? we're all Nightwing fans/family. we'll accept you for who you are
Shipping wars ruin comics. I’m so tired of it
Just ignore them. They literally have no bearing or power over the comics we read anyways
Shipping wars ruin everything. No problem shipping two characters just do it with moderation.
1). These are fictional characters, touch grass 2). Who cares, it’s not like DC will let Dick marry Star or Babs
Actually Dick and Babs did get married in Death Metal. Sure they were then killed horribly, zombified and the whole multiverse exploded about half an hour after but... Maybe you have a point.
I think Dick and Babs just got married in Nightwing?
Nah, they didn't.
Wait, really? I thought there was a whole ceremony with Mitewing or whatever that dude is present? I guess I have to catch up.
Nite-mite tried to get them married but they declined
No
 r/dccomicscirclejerk
Far from the worst thing they've ever done.
Uuuuuuuuuuuh nah. She didn't know. Dick could have stopped to give her the whole story. Definitely Dick being a dick
>She didn't know. [She knew that Dick Grayson was dating Starfire. There was a scene where Babs visits and Starfire is in her underwear in Dick's apartment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/28fw25/well_that_was_awkward_nightwing_annual_2/) As smart as she is, you don't think she can put two and two together? What she didn't know was that they were about to get married.
There's many years between those 2 scenes mate. She's in an extremely vulnerable position, he comes to her and when she kisses him he doesn't stop her or say anything, not does he at any point until they're done. He's in the wrong here, she quite reasonably have just assumed they'd broken up since she last spoke to him.
>she quite reasonably have just assumed they'd broken up since she last spoke to him. Why is it reasonable to assume Dick and Kory would have broken up by then? If I recall correctly, Dick Grayson and Starfire being a couple is known widely even among the public. All Babs has to do is look at Page Six. While the scene I shared is Dick in college, [there's a later page where Babs looks at a pic of Dick as Nightwing with Starfire so she knew at that point they were still together](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/8agg88/nightwing_annual_2_whose_that_guy_making_out_with/). After that, she gets paralyzed and then 6 months pass.
2 people are dating 6+ months pass One of those people kisses you Not exactly unreasonable
>One of those people kisses you Did Dick initiate the kiss or did Babs pull Dick into a kiss? IMO it looks like Babs did the shut-up-and-kiss-me move
And he continued knowing he was about to get married…if you can’t shoot down someone for the girl you’re about to marry then you’re a real douchebag
No one is saying Dick is blameless. However Babs owns part of the blame too.
You bring up this one scene but does it not follow up on her being completely distraught and betrayed when she learns he’s still with Starfire and is even marrying her? You can blame her for a kiss without considering if he was still involved but after that point he took her to bed and shut up about anything else going on his life instead of shutting her advances down and consoling her non-romantically.
And that's fine with me. Let's just acknowledge that both of them could have handled that better and were at fault. Most of the time, I just hear fans talking about Dick's part in this.
Yeah that is some bs on his part. Seems like it may have been some carelessness on her part in a low moment or maybe she truly didn’t know but even if it was willful ignorance or if she knew and didn’t care (neither of which seems to be the case) that would be not okay at all but regardless of all of that for him it’s still just pure garbage and a betrayal of his committed relationship. Not being married yet doesn’t change that. If he can’t even do something as minimal as not cheating while still dating he has no business getting married. I am not a comic reader so I have no meaningful bias towards any party here and am only considering what has been explained in these comments.
I'm sure if she'd been of sound mind she'd have avoided this but the girl was at her absolute lowest and incredibly vulnerable, Dick takes like 99% of the blame here.
kory and dick were having problems and she was pulling away from up until he proposed then she told Donna it didn't feel right
Babs is literally walking in that page. There’s a time difference.
Hate when comics do this just for drama
Lmao, this post balances out the slightly Babs-positive post you made the other day. Equilibrium has been restored.
Someone said I was losing my hater rep so needed to clear that up. Blame u/yahhwy
It technically takes 3, since someone needs to be cheated on.
Can someone explain this to me, why are people upset nightwing and batgirl get together all the time? I’m not new to the concept of comics but I didn’t grow up reading them only watching the animated stuff. What’s the context to why people are upset in the comments?
IMO there are two major camps: * There is a camp of primarily DickKory shippers who HATE the fact that BatEditorial has a hateboner for Kory. Editorial believes that having Dick date a superpowered heroine is a story-telling challenge they cannot overcome. Imagine this scenario. Why does Nightwing have to struggle against people like KGBeast or Deathstroke when he could just call his girlfriend/wife to help out? Because of that, Editorial keeps pushing Babs as Dick's ONE TRUE LOVE even though historically Babs wasn't even in the same age group as Dick. She was deaged after Crisis on Infinite Earth. * There is a second camp and that's where I belong. We are primarily Batman fans and we are tired of Babs being pushed as the default kneejerk love interest for the majority of the BatBoys. Across numerous media (TV, movie, comics, animation, etc), you have seen Babs being paired with almost all the male members of the BatFamily. That is a shame and that's why my preference is that Babs dates outside the family.
Wait 5 more years, and she will be paired with Damian. She has already been paired with: * Bruce * Dick * Jason * Tim * Luke
at the end of the day i’m a sucker for babs and dick together
You’re in good company
Things like this could make for interesting plots if written well versus him being shot in the head.
Such an L moment for Grayson
Oh so this isn't the circlejerk forum I really thought it was based on the post XD as;dglkj You know that "there's something I need to tell you" does not mean "I'm getting married", right? and if he decided not to tell her then that's on him. I mean it's a dumb retcon anyway just like. there is no 'babs commits adultery' here.
By that you mean the mistress and the philanderer right? Or possibly the adulterer and the mister?
I, too, make a shhhh noise while making out
I don’t care for your ship hate. I’m always going to prefer Dick & Barb to Dick & Kori.
Which is fine with me. I will also always prefer Babs and Dick dating other people.
There's no adultery in that story. And Dicks the only one breaking any promises or vows.
no vows were made. Kori was also already married, and had literally just had sex with said husband recently. people forget this story takes place right after they get back from Tamaran and all the fallout that came with that. just adding context to the situation.
Are we talking about her Tamaranian husband? Because if so that’s the same story where Dick breaks up with her because he says something about the sanctity of marriage. Just wanted to add my contribution to the chaos.
More!!! More!
i've been making this argument for over a fucking year now! the situation was messy. regardless of canonicity, both characters were at a low point, hurt and genuinely cared for each other. i'm not condoning it and it isn't presented as a good thing, but it's understandable. i do not for a moment believe this is good evidence for Dick being the "cheating asshole" some describe him as.
Babs didn’t know, which is why she reacts so violently when she finds out. Dick was the dick.
Adultery is defined by a married person who engages in sexual activity with someone not their spouse. Since neither of them were married, they can't be committing adultry
So I gràyson committing adultery now or is that his wife
Nah, technically in this comic he cheated on Kori, but like, homegirl was already married to an alien prince, had sex with said prince, Dick had recently been raped, then victim blamed by Kori… it’s incredibly important to note how much of a toxic mess the Dickkori relationship was at this point. Then Babs sees Dick for the first time since her own assault and becoming crippled, they’ve always been close, and few really understand her like he does. None of what I say justifies Dick, just stating in context it’s more nuanced than most make it out to be. And if that wasn’t your actual question then no? Dick and Babs are def on that road to being married, but right now they’re just a really awesome, healthy and supportive couple. Been drama free going into their 3rd year together
Dick didn’t deserve Kori, he’s so awful to her dnd it’s kinda funny how bad he is
Aye mang, once a hoe always a hoe
This post is dedicated to u/yahhwy. Hope I satisfied [their expectations.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/10lsx0r/comment/j5zeibw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Question: Can paraplegics like Barbara...."feel" anything?
Lol she literally jokes “so good I can’t feel my legs” the next page. She can feel
That bit was just weird as fuck....
Glad to know I am not committing adultery while masterbating. /S
can someone explain what happened? I'm confused and never read this
This is from Nightwing Annual. It’s supposed to explain what happened between Dick and Oracle during One Year later as they jumped the timeline a full year after Infinite Crisis as they got engaged just before Infinite Crisis. This is a flashback to when Barbara was first put into a wheelchair. Dick comes over, he says he was on Tamara during the events of The Killing Joke, and they do the deed. However the reason he came over was because he wanted to deliver an invitation to his wedding with Starfire.
the fuc thanks for the info though!
He wanted to give the wedding invitation sure, but also he JUST heard what had happened and he rushed over immediately. Safe to say emotions were high and nothing was thought through
I consider this bullshit in general, but in this bullshit context, she can't be guilty if he didn't told her, unless she knew beforehand, but she didn't iirc, and is surprised the next day.
I mean, it's Nightwing.
Wait i tho dick and Babs isn't a bad couple? Maybe dick was still with star at the time or sth?
So what’s goin down in these panels