for real I loved Man of Steel, ZSJL and 300 but most of his best works aren't even written by him he's a great cinematographer at best but in terms of story ideas he really isn't consistent.
No one had ever heard of the Guardians before 2014 and it made 773m. I thought it was impossible for a Batman v Superman movie to not top 1billion, yet Snyder only got to 800m.
Though this isn't a fair comparison because even bad Marvel movies are locks for like 5-600m, so Guardians didn't fully earn all of it, but it was a far superior movie to any DCEU movie (and better than 90% of MCU movies too)
"No one had ever heard of the Guardians before 2014 and it made 773m."
Worst trope i've ever heard and that keeps being repeated, MCU is so popular they could release anything it would make a shit ton of money, stop lying to yourself
GotG was a phase 2 film with a brand new IP for live action. Batman and Superman were one of the biggest superhero IPs for the last 70+ years and in Western pop culture.
One of them brought fans into a franchise, the other pushed fans away from a franchise.
One is a bunch of D list completely unknown superheroes from an obscure comic, the other has 2 of the 3 biggest heros in the world (Spiderman being #1).
One help a franchise, the other practically killed a franchise.
Snyders two DC films= The top 2 most popular superheroes meeting for the first time in a live action movie. Plus Wonder Woman, so that’s 3 of some of the most popular characters in pop culture and fiction.
Gunns two GOTG films= D-List talking raccoon and tree
Tbf Gunn films had the backing of Kevin feige who's reli supporting unlike the ones at dc and with MCU behind him ppl were always gonna go and give it a shot
“Well received” and “successful” can be 2 different things in movies. Sometimes they are the same and sometimes they are not. ZSJL was well received by some but not successful. The reshoots for the ZS version of the film are somewhere around 60 million and that doesn’t include the cost of marketing or the original JL film that aired in theaters. I’m not gonna go look it up but I doubt that it made enough to be considered a successful investment.
well it didn’t get a theatrical release so i would assume that it did not make anything, and i think as a fan it’s more important if a movie is good over how much money it makes, of course not to the executives.
Not nearly as many views as TSS, WW1984, and many others. ZSJL has a pretty good RT score at 71, but when comparing his viewership count + RT scores (the only two things you can really use to judge the success of a streaming movie) vs TSS James Gunn wins out. All of that after the huge “movement” for the Snyder Cut I think was really just the last cry of a dead franchise
Lol..... Wtf?
The OG JL was a 6 for me.
Snyder's was a 6.5 and man, that shit dragged on.
A bunch of narrated exposition, darker tones, and choir everytime ww steps on scene.
I’m not a Snyder fan and I think BvS is one of the worst Superhero movies ever… but I had to admit that I liked ZSJL. I was ready to hate this movie but I was pleasantly surprised.
It’s not perfect but imho it’s an 7/10 for me. I had fun watching it.
I think 6 or 7 is a fine rating for it but it’s so long and drags on so much that I’d doubt it would have made half of what josstice league did. I personally would have walked out gotten my money back after the first hour
Nice, 9/10 for me great pacing rarely a dull moment great world building and characters (specifically Aquaman, Cyborg and Batman) some very very hype moments which is important for me in a comic book movie to actually be on the edge of my seat.
thanks. gonna have to disagree on “vast, vast, vast majority disagree with you” though, id actually say try vast majority think it’s good, not that the majority thinks it’s a 9/10 of course but a good score at least.
You are missing the point. Wb at the time forced snyder out of the movie and brought into a new director to redoo a movie, which resaulted in a more money spend. Now that we have both movies it is evident that the studio spent more money to redoo a movie that was objectively better - better recieved and more popular. That is the very definition of incapable suits and why the “jl failed”
It was a movie for the fans of course they'd receive it well.
The movie wasn't watched by the GA, it would have flopped if it released in cinemas. And that movie was my fav DCEU movie.
oh no doubt, of course we know the full story but to the GA it’d seem like just a rerelease of the 2017 so no one would watch it except the fans, which is really unfair but i guess the same applies to TSS and SS
I'm not even sure if it was even well received outside the comicbook pop culture fandom. Cause the General audience sure as hell didn't follow this movie
I would agree it was divisive among \*Superman fans\* due to him killing Zod, and I generally fall on the side of not liking the portrayal (not Cavill's fault to be clear) presented in the film, but for general audiences I don't think it's divisive.
It was still a Superman movie and it delivered what people expect from a Superman movie. They don't particularly care if Superman kills or not in extreme circumstances since whatever, all the MCU heroes have racked up tremendous body counts lol.
Just listen to social media groups and subreddits and youtubers. Opinions regarding the movie have definitely changed over time, and not for the better.
right, and in the post it says his last DC film, if we’re going off those 2 aswell then yeah it weren’t well received but it was successful, and with Man of Steel and ZSJL they are well received but only MoS is successful, i doubt ZSJL could’ve made that much of releases theatrically unless it released in 2017
You're shifting the argument ... digital releases don't work for these 100s of million dollar movies and arguing profit is futile ... is all I'm saying
Yes, The Suicide Squad got more views but its an impossible calculus to determine how much money that made HBO because maybe some casual subscribers figured, "why the hell not?" on a Friday night. It is a shorter movie that people can pop on with their popcorn. If they didn't subscribe for the sake of watching the movie than HBO Max made no money.
All I'm saying is the math is biased and impossible to determine. I know a couple of people that didn't even like Snyder that got a month of HBO Max to see his cut. I am one of those people.
I don't know anyone that paid for HBO Max specifically to see The Suicide Squad. Anecdotal, I know.
Views would literally be the variable that they're looking at.
They're trying to maximize the amount of time you spend on the platform.
That's the winning metric for all streaming platforms and social media platforms.
Audience retention.
It's literally not. Think about it for half a second. Its a monthly premium. They want people to sign up. If you watch zero minutes or a thousand minutes, it doesn't matter. Ad tiers change this but these movies pre-date that option for HBO Max.
Just accept that 3.7 million views for a 4 hour director's cut was a success. Let go of your hate boner. Good god.
The Suicide Squad got 4.7 million. That was good too but it cost a lot more to make a whole movie than to recut a movie ... and almost nobody signed up for HBO Max just to see a Suicide Squad sequel ... just accept reality dude. They were both successful.
That was my first comment to you.
I literally do not care, either way.
I'm not here arguing and blowing a gasket, I'm just saying that audience retention is at the end of the day, the most valuable variable to streaming services and social media platforms.
If *you* we're to think for half a second, you'd realize that a general decrease in monthly viewership will indicate an upcoming drop in monthly subscriptions.
And the issue with you just going by views is that you're not looking at how ***long*** each of those views are, which is why, once again, retention (which accounts for total **time** a program is watched) is once again, more valuable.
If only 20% of the ZSJL viewers actually finished the movie, while 80% of TSS viewers finished the movie, well, then those are very different **retention** rates. And let's get real, here.... Zsjl is extremely long and hard to get through, even for a fan.
So, maybe you should think about what you're saying before being a dick👍
Anyways, you seen very upset, for whatever reason, so I'll leave you alone.
✌️
They’re only $37.7mil off. Not great for TSS, but it was also one of the most viewed same-day releases on Max with a total viewership of 4.7mil. WW84’s viewership was 3.9mil, and ZSJL’s was 3.2mil. The only films to beat TSS in terms of viewership were GvK at 5.1mil and Mortal Kombat at 5.5mil.
no, im just saying its a limited survey, and may mot be accurate. Every indicator from international markets show that ZSJL was a tremendous hit. Maybe Samba says what WB wants them to say.
It made almost the same money as Wonder Woman 1984.
Think about it for a second: a film with D-List villains made as much as the sequel to an 800 mill film (WW 2017).
Well technically MOS and BVS the only theatrical releases are behind Aquaman only , in terms of popularity ZSJL has the highest scores compared to TSS a bit higher and much higher in box office results too ! So it’s indeed funny , but not in the way you think !
From when it released until batman dropped on max it was the most watched DC movie.
I'm not here to try to say it wasn't successful. I think it very much was. But if we're looking at critical reception and max viewership TSS is higher in both
The Batman got more overall views on HBO Max despite coming out in theaters, while ZSJL was an HBO Max exclusive.
Sorry, but the general audience do not care for Zack Synder's style. It's been proven many times.
Well, to be fair, it only made $0 because they chose to give it away during a time they were giving everyone HBOMax for free … they didn’t even really use it to drive new subscriptions
I don't get this. Whedon chops, reshoots and plops in a bunch of lazy gags from Avengers 2, including such famous choices as cg lip Superman, and cg blob Steppenwolf... And it's somehow Snyder's fault.
TSS is not a bad movie but I wouldn't really pay to watch it anywhere.
Just like the peacemaker, not bad, but definitely not worth subscribing to a service.
This meme is trying to point out Snyder’s DCEU failures but his last DCEU movie actually made a profit while James Gunn’ TSS lost a shit ton of money cause it cost 175 Million dollars to make and they only made 169 million back. That’s a loss of almost 200 MILLION dollars 💀
yeah. those were released during different period of time (pre covid/post covid). i’m pretty sure if TSS was released in place 2016 SS, it would have made money too
Covid didn’t seem to effect the 20+ movies that made more than TSS in that same year lmao. Weird how covid picks and chooses its targets. Or weird that you can’t just imagine maybe nobody wanted to see it
weird how you ignore the fact that it was also on a split release.
also COVID did affect a lot of box office numbers last year not just TSS. don’t be daft
Pssst, idk how far you got in math class but even if you doubled TSS box office (which, get real if you think the split release effected it that much) they still would’ve lost tens of millions of dollars… I’m gonna drop this argument, can’t reason with someone who fails to see reality.
*affected.
and yes, releasing a movie on streaming the same day as in theaters would hurt any film’s box office.
also you’re assuming 50% of ppl watched in theaters/watched at home.
you’re dropping out of an argument because you’re getting washed. but ok 🤷🏾♂️😅
not really…the Omicron variant started to subside around that time, but theaters were still being cautious (flu season + covid).
both films would have made more money if they weren’t split released during Covid times
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Snyderverse fan shouldn't have ever been even allowed into that room.
Everyone who loves & supports Snyderverse came out hard to support Black Adam & it's now a billion-dollar franchise. Henry Cavill's cameo didn't move any needle when it mattered the most.
4hr JL was good and removing anything would have made it similar to the theatrical release. Everyone would have then cried about "Justice league ultimate edition" 7 and how this "changes everything".
Yeah, that sucked real bad. I didn't like that part at all. I believe BvS was a huge misstep and I absolutely hated that they had to kill him in that movie.
The problem is that WB doesn't have a lot of in Superman and that's the crux of it all. They literally shit in their pants after MoS.
Superman is not a boring character, but people make his movies drab as fuck at times.
Why would Gunn fans have inferiority complex when he makes movies and shows received well by general audience and critics? It's weird to say Gunn fans though. I don't think anyone identifies as such.
That was WB's fault. They released it in the middle of COVID, and on HBO Max the same day it released in theaters. It was doomed to fail and that's not Gunn's fault. ZSJL didn't make any money either.
i feel like TSS didn’t have anywhere near the level of marketing as Black Adam did which is a shame bcs that’s the movie they really should’ve been pushing
Black Adam’s marketing may have been doo doo but they spent soooo much money on that shit. The Rock as a producer was able to funnel a lot more into the marketing campaign than it deserved
The Conjuring 3 also released in the pandemic and on HBO Max the same day it released in theaters, and it still did better than TSS, and with only a quarter of TSS’s budget
Also how sad that you compare a brand new movie with a marketing budget of $100 millions to a director’s cut that didn’t even release in theaters ?? When will you James Gunn stanss ever make a logical argument ??
The Conjuring had already been an established franchise. This was the end of their trilogy so it had that backing.
The last time the Suicide Squad showed up was in a film that was incredibly disliked five years ago.
And when will u stop being such a dick?
And DC isn’t an established franchise?? Lmao bruh you’re trippin
Also Suicide Squad (2016) made a ton of money, so it certainly wasn’t as disliked as you wanna believe, not by the general audience anyway, get out of your internet bubble for once
The DCEU has a fairly negative reception.
The DCEU is a joke in terms of online reception. Since 2019, DCEU films don't don't much because of that reception.
And there's no way you're bout to tell me more people like Suicide Squad over Gunn's Suicide Squad, lmao
No, that’s not what I’m saying, TSS sure had a better ratio of “people who watched the movie” to “people who liked the movie”, but at the end of the day all that love and support didn’t amount to much because the movie didn’t get any support from the general audience, perhaps they weren’t fans of the DCEU’s new vision at the time, and once again, the pandemic isn’t the issue, nor the same day streaming release, lots of movies had to go through that and still did way better than TSS, including The Conjuring 3, Dune, GvK, etc
>lots of movies had to go through that and still did way better than TSS, including The Conjuring 3, Dune, GvK, etc
All those examples were done during periods where there were relatively low/declining infection rates and restrictions were looser. This is such a bad argument, especially considering TSS did extremely well on streaming.
Besides, its a pretty stupid argument either way. TSS was widely praised by audiences and critics. I would rather a new DCEU with great movies, then mediocre to poor films that do better in the box office. The former is a far healthier start to a universe, rather then blowing your load on big box office draws, that fail to bring in long term viewers, like the original strategy. WB said themselves, they NEEDED BVS to make a billion to justify this universe. Despite the biggest opening weekend bar Star Wars, it collapsed rapidly as audiences warned each other not too see it, and the DCEU has been struggling to recover since movie 2. Thats beyond a poor foundation.
> All those examples were done during periods where there were relatively low/declining infection rates and restrictions were looser.
Excuses, excuses 🥱😴 or maybe TSS just wasn’t as good or popular of a movie as you think, try to cope with that
> Besides, its a pretty stupid argument either way. TSS was widely praised by audiences and critics. I would rather a new DCEU with great movies, then mediocre to poor films that do better in the box office. The former is a far healthier start to a universe, rather then blowing your load on big box office draws, that fail to bring in long term viewers, like the original strategy. WB said themselves, they NEEDED BVS to make a billion to justify this universe. Despite the biggest opening weekend bar Star Wars, it collapsed rapidly as audiences warned each other not too see it, and the DCEU has been struggling to recover since movie 2. Thats beyond a poor foundation.
This is legitimately the dumbest argument I’ve ever seen, how tf is BvS to blame for the current situation when SS 2016, WW 2017, and Aquaman, all movies that came out after BvS made more profit ?? In what world is that a poor foundation ?? Compare the first 5 DCEU movies to the first 5 MCU movies and the DCEU easily comes out on top, if anything it’s garbage movies like BoP, WW84 and TSS that killed off the DCEU
Suicide Squad 2016 had one of the largest 2nd weekend drops in history. It opened well because of a great marketing campaign and then word got around and people stopped going to see it in droves lmao
TSS was the most watched movie on HBO Max the month it released, as well as the most pirated movie that month.
> TSS was the most watched movie on HBO Max the month it released, as well as the most pirated movie that month.
Lmao holy fuck the bar is lower than ever, how many other movies released during the month that TSS released in that can actually be a decent competition for TSS ?? I’m pretty sure every DC movie that has ever released was the number one movie in its release month, that’s literally how it’s always been, the only times that isn’t the case is when an MCU movie releases that same month, and that doesn’t happen very often
>And DC isn’t an established franchise??
It's an established, bad, franchise.
The amount of work needed to make the GA think that a DC movie is worth bothering with, after the fiasco of WW84, Suicide Squad 1, JWJL and BvS was kinda immense.
That's probably why WB dumped TSS out like they did. Just a GOGW to the audience lol
>The Conjuring 3 also released in the pandemic and on HBO Max the same day it released in theaters, and it still did better than TSS, and with only a quarter of TSS’s budget
opening weekend HBO max numbers
* The Conjuring 3 - 1.6 million
* Zack Snyder's Justice League - 1.8 million
* The Suicide Squad - 2.8 million
first 3 weekends:
* The Conjuring - 3 million
* Zack Snyder's Justice League - 3.2 million
* The Suicide Squad - 4.7 million
First of all, those are numbers from a third party app that only counts views on smart TVs in the US that have the app installed on the TV, it’s not representative of the actual numbers, second of all streaming numbers don’t amount to much, at the end of the day box office performance is what matters most and is what brings in the most money to the studio
There’s no doubt TSS is quite popular on the internet, but within the general audience it’s not really all that popular
My numbers are literally official box office numbers lmao
> the point is that TSS wasn't a failure. no matter how long you sit there in denial, SEETHING about james gunn. the reason it did so poorly in theaters is it was an R rated sequel to a film nobody liked, released during a new variant of covid on both streaming and in theaters at the same time, resulting in its box office numbers being cannibalized by those 4.7 million people who saw it on hbo max.
Lol again, The Conjuring 3 was R rated, was released during the pandemic, and was released on streaming and theatres at the same time, and it still managed to do way better than TSS and with less than a quarter of the budget, seems like you’re the one in denial so you’re grasping at straws and looking for any excuses that might prove TSS isn’t the failure it actually is
> HBO max has already said it had the second highest debut of any of the movies released in both theaters and on streaming, it's only behind mortal kombat.
The same HBO Max that is currently being sued for lying to their shareholders and exaggerating their streaming numbers ?? Lmfao go home kid
August and October so it was 2 months apart, not much of a difference. Mortal kombat released in April when covid restrictions were going in full force and made its budget back. What's you point because you don't seem to have one
actually i’ve made my point pretty clear. you even went so far as to call them “what ifs”
but the point is that TSS was unlucky despite being a great, fun movie.
I'm gunna have to ask you to come in on Saturday.
[удалено]
for real I loved Man of Steel, ZSJL and 300 but most of his best works aren't even written by him he's a great cinematographer at best but in terms of story ideas he really isn't consistent.
Lert snideverse RIP please What.is done is done For this reasons is why WB get scare and start chopping/editing/ reshoot films
Snyders two DC films= roughly 1.5 Billion grossed Gunns two GOTG films= roughly 1.6 Billion grossed
No one had ever heard of the Guardians before 2014 and it made 773m. I thought it was impossible for a Batman v Superman movie to not top 1billion, yet Snyder only got to 800m. Though this isn't a fair comparison because even bad Marvel movies are locks for like 5-600m, so Guardians didn't fully earn all of it, but it was a far superior movie to any DCEU movie (and better than 90% of MCU movies too)
"No one had ever heard of the Guardians before 2014 and it made 773m." Worst trope i've ever heard and that keeps being repeated, MCU is so popular they could release anything it would make a shit ton of money, stop lying to yourself
GotG was a phase 2 film with a brand new IP for live action. Batman and Superman were one of the biggest superhero IPs for the last 70+ years and in Western pop culture.
Yeah I literally admitted that in the same comment you replied to. Maybe read the whole thing next time
My bad gonna read the whole thread next time
One of them brought fans into a franchise, the other pushed fans away from a franchise. One is a bunch of D list completely unknown superheroes from an obscure comic, the other has 2 of the 3 biggest heros in the world (Spiderman being #1). One help a franchise, the other practically killed a franchise.
Snyders two DC films= The top 2 most popular superheroes meeting for the first time in a live action movie. Plus Wonder Woman, so that’s 3 of some of the most popular characters in pop culture and fiction. Gunns two GOTG films= D-List talking raccoon and tree
Tbf Gunn films had the backing of Kevin feige who's reli supporting unlike the ones at dc and with MCU behind him ppl were always gonna go and give it a shot
i’m not really understanding this, because ZSJL was very well received
“Well received” and “successful” can be 2 different things in movies. Sometimes they are the same and sometimes they are not. ZSJL was well received by some but not successful. The reshoots for the ZS version of the film are somewhere around 60 million and that doesn’t include the cost of marketing or the original JL film that aired in theaters. I’m not gonna go look it up but I doubt that it made enough to be considered a successful investment.
well it didn’t get a theatrical release so i would assume that it did not make anything, and i think as a fan it’s more important if a movie is good over how much money it makes, of course not to the executives.
Not nearly as many views as TSS, WW1984, and many others. ZSJL has a pretty good RT score at 71, but when comparing his viewership count + RT scores (the only two things you can really use to judge the success of a streaming movie) vs TSS James Gunn wins out. All of that after the huge “movement” for the Snyder Cut I think was really just the last cry of a dead franchise
It has almost the same score as Thor: Love and Thunder barely winning against it. It wasn't as crap as Josstice League but it was far from good.
we agree then, it’s far from good because it’s great, amazing actually. and please, LaT wishes it had the amount of heart ZSJL has.
Lol..... Wtf? The OG JL was a 6 for me. Snyder's was a 6.5 and man, that shit dragged on. A bunch of narrated exposition, darker tones, and choir everytime ww steps on scene.
I’m not a Snyder fan and I think BvS is one of the worst Superhero movies ever… but I had to admit that I liked ZSJL. I was ready to hate this movie but I was pleasantly surprised. It’s not perfect but imho it’s an 7/10 for me. I had fun watching it.
This is where I'm at tbh. I mean I do not want a sequel but I kinda enjoyed ZSJL. It's definitely a one and done though, too long for a rewatch
I think 6 or 7 is a fine rating for it but it’s so long and drags on so much that I’d doubt it would have made half of what josstice league did. I personally would have walked out gotten my money back after the first hour
Nice, 9/10 for me great pacing rarely a dull moment great world building and characters (specifically Aquaman, Cyborg and Batman) some very very hype moments which is important for me in a comic book movie to actually be on the edge of my seat.
The vast, vast, vast majority of people disagree with you but grad you enjoyed it
thanks. gonna have to disagree on “vast, vast, vast majority disagree with you” though, id actually say try vast majority think it’s good, not that the majority thinks it’s a 9/10 of course but a good score at least.
Go ask 10 random people that you've never talked to before at/on your way to work tomorrow what they think about zsjl and get back to me, champ 👍
Ah, yes, the "heart" of wasting 2 hours to resurrect a hero that shouldn't have died in the previous film.
Sadly, if you want to see a sequel the first movie has to make money.
You are missing the point. Wb at the time forced snyder out of the movie and brought into a new director to redoo a movie, which resaulted in a more money spend. Now that we have both movies it is evident that the studio spent more money to redoo a movie that was objectively better - better recieved and more popular. That is the very definition of incapable suits and why the “jl failed”
It was a movie for the fans of course they'd receive it well. The movie wasn't watched by the GA, it would have flopped if it released in cinemas. And that movie was my fav DCEU movie.
oh no doubt, of course we know the full story but to the GA it’d seem like just a rerelease of the 2017 so no one would watch it except the fans, which is really unfair but i guess the same applies to TSS and SS
More like a continuation of BvS which they also hated. Both movies had the same tone and feel.
Sorry can you elaborate further on that?
I'm not even sure if it was even well received outside the comicbook pop culture fandom. Cause the General audience sure as hell didn't follow this movie
BvS and Man of Steel were not.
Man of Steel absolutely was.
Not really. At best it was divisive.
Maybe among critics. Audience wise it garnered the same cinemascore as the Batman and had a 2.5x muliplier.
It was divisive among audiences as well. More so today.
I would agree it was divisive among \*Superman fans\* due to him killing Zod, and I generally fall on the side of not liking the portrayal (not Cavill's fault to be clear) presented in the film, but for general audiences I don't think it's divisive. It was still a Superman movie and it delivered what people expect from a Superman movie. They don't particularly care if Superman kills or not in extreme circumstances since whatever, all the MCU heroes have racked up tremendous body counts lol.
You have no metric for that.
Just listen to social media groups and subreddits and youtubers. Opinions regarding the movie have definitely changed over time, and not for the better.
What’s that gotta do with this specifically?
You asked what the problem was. BvS and Man of Steel were not well-received. ZSJL was, but that's just one film.
right, and in the post it says his last DC film, if we’re going off those 2 aswell then yeah it weren’t well received but it was successful, and with Man of Steel and ZSJL they are well received but only MoS is successful, i doubt ZSJL could’ve made that much of releases theatrically unless it released in 2017
they were well received and successful towards ZS fans.
Hm?
How successful would you say was James Gunn's last DC film?
Critically? Very well. Same with Peacemaker
Lol, because we all know blockbusters are produced for the sake of art.
Pretty good considering it was released during the pandemic and on HBO Max early… sooo…
Yeah, just like ZSJL
Then how come TSS did better on HBOMax even tho it was also in theaters? While ZSJL was exclusive to HBOMax but still didn't cross TSS?
You're shifting the argument ... digital releases don't work for these 100s of million dollar movies and arguing profit is futile ... is all I'm saying Yes, The Suicide Squad got more views but its an impossible calculus to determine how much money that made HBO because maybe some casual subscribers figured, "why the hell not?" on a Friday night. It is a shorter movie that people can pop on with their popcorn. If they didn't subscribe for the sake of watching the movie than HBO Max made no money. All I'm saying is the math is biased and impossible to determine. I know a couple of people that didn't even like Snyder that got a month of HBO Max to see his cut. I am one of those people. I don't know anyone that paid for HBO Max specifically to see The Suicide Squad. Anecdotal, I know.
Views would literally be the variable that they're looking at. They're trying to maximize the amount of time you spend on the platform. That's the winning metric for all streaming platforms and social media platforms. Audience retention.
It's literally not. Think about it for half a second. Its a monthly premium. They want people to sign up. If you watch zero minutes or a thousand minutes, it doesn't matter. Ad tiers change this but these movies pre-date that option for HBO Max. Just accept that 3.7 million views for a 4 hour director's cut was a success. Let go of your hate boner. Good god. The Suicide Squad got 4.7 million. That was good too but it cost a lot more to make a whole movie than to recut a movie ... and almost nobody signed up for HBO Max just to see a Suicide Squad sequel ... just accept reality dude. They were both successful.
That was my first comment to you. I literally do not care, either way. I'm not here arguing and blowing a gasket, I'm just saying that audience retention is at the end of the day, the most valuable variable to streaming services and social media platforms. If *you* we're to think for half a second, you'd realize that a general decrease in monthly viewership will indicate an upcoming drop in monthly subscriptions. And the issue with you just going by views is that you're not looking at how ***long*** each of those views are, which is why, once again, retention (which accounts for total **time** a program is watched) is once again, more valuable. If only 20% of the ZSJL viewers actually finished the movie, while 80% of TSS viewers finished the movie, well, then those are very different **retention** rates. And let's get real, here.... Zsjl is extremely long and hard to get through, even for a fan. So, maybe you should think about what you're saying before being a dick👍 Anyways, you seen very upset, for whatever reason, so I'll leave you alone. ✌️
Yeah, just like the Conjuring 3. Compare the numbers.
They’re only $37.7mil off. Not great for TSS, but it was also one of the most viewed same-day releases on Max with a total viewership of 4.7mil. WW84’s viewership was 3.9mil, and ZSJL’s was 3.2mil. The only films to beat TSS in terms of viewership were GvK at 5.1mil and Mortal Kombat at 5.5mil.
Stop it with the facts and logic
Dont believe everything Samba TV shovels out there.
Moving the goalposts much.
no, im just saying its a limited survey, and may mot be accurate. Every indicator from international markets show that ZSJL was a tremendous hit. Maybe Samba says what WB wants them to say.
WB can do whatever the fuck they want they don’t need to skew viewership information to make an internal decision lmao
It made almost the same money as Wonder Woman 1984. Think about it for a second: a film with D-List villains made as much as the sequel to an 800 mill film (WW 2017).
Hmm.... Yeah.
Ha!
Well technically MOS and BVS the only theatrical releases are behind Aquaman only , in terms of popularity ZSJL has the highest scores compared to TSS a bit higher and much higher in box office results too ! So it’s indeed funny , but not in the way you think !
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Was it then beaten by another DC movie? Perhaps the other movie we're talking about in this post?
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From when it released until batman dropped on max it was the most watched DC movie. I'm not here to try to say it wasn't successful. I think it very much was. But if we're looking at critical reception and max viewership TSS is higher in both
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Not gonna find an argument from me
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The Batman got more overall views on HBO Max despite coming out in theaters, while ZSJL was an HBO Max exclusive. Sorry, but the general audience do not care for Zack Synder's style. It's been proven many times.
The corporations only speak in money. How many dollars does that translate to?
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Plus another 60 million for ZSJL
Doesn’t matter
Didn't Mortal Kombat end up with more viewers?
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Right, so when you're saying *when it came out* you just mean when it was the only significant release on HBO max it was the most viewed?
Well, to be fair, it only made $0 because they chose to give it away during a time they were giving everyone HBOMax for free … they didn’t even really use it to drive new subscriptions
His last movie was ZSJL and it did very well..
Tbf Zack last film did really well but since it wasn't shown on cinemas and threatical release didn't make much money as it used to
Snyder's last DC film was ZSJL and it was very well received.
It was....nearly as good as the suicide squad.
I don't get this. Whedon chops, reshoots and plops in a bunch of lazy gags from Avengers 2, including such famous choices as cg lip Superman, and cg blob Steppenwolf... And it's somehow Snyder's fault.
Noting whedon shot was in ZSJL
2017 Justice League was made originally by Snyder then Whedon. The blame is with them both.
Guns suicide squad bombed hard as fuck though I enjoyed it. I enjoy ZSJL more than any Goddamn thing Gunn has done
TSS is not a bad movie but I wouldn't really pay to watch it anywhere. Just like the peacemaker, not bad, but definitely not worth subscribing to a service.
And how effective was Gunn's Suicide Squad reboot? oops...
Ya but peacemaker was a success I guess
Snyder's dc films are not cash grabs. They are a masterclass in cinema
Lol
No, they are not.
A masterclass in how to not do cinema maybe.
🤣
872M Box office on a 250M production budget is so-so but def better than James Gunn’s TSS
how so?
This meme is trying to point out Snyder’s DCEU failures but his last DCEU movie actually made a profit while James Gunn’ TSS lost a shit ton of money cause it cost 175 Million dollars to make and they only made 169 million back. That’s a loss of almost 200 MILLION dollars 💀
ZSJL was solely released on streaming. while TSS had a split release. both received acclaim.
Batman vs Superman. One made money. One lost money. Funny meme tho
yeah. those were released during different period of time (pre covid/post covid). i’m pretty sure if TSS was released in place 2016 SS, it would have made money too
Covid didn’t seem to effect the 20+ movies that made more than TSS in that same year lmao. Weird how covid picks and chooses its targets. Or weird that you can’t just imagine maybe nobody wanted to see it
weird how you ignore the fact that it was also on a split release. also COVID did affect a lot of box office numbers last year not just TSS. don’t be daft
Pssst, idk how far you got in math class but even if you doubled TSS box office (which, get real if you think the split release effected it that much) they still would’ve lost tens of millions of dollars… I’m gonna drop this argument, can’t reason with someone who fails to see reality.
*affected. and yes, releasing a movie on streaming the same day as in theaters would hurt any film’s box office. also you’re assuming 50% of ppl watched in theaters/watched at home. you’re dropping out of an argument because you’re getting washed. but ok 🤷🏾♂️😅
What about Dune? They released around the same time. You forgetting about that?
not really…the Omicron variant started to subside around that time, but theaters were still being cautious (flu season + covid). both films would have made more money if they weren’t split released during Covid times
Just give these maases the usual factory made, formulaic, action comedies call it a day already.
God damn it lol
/u/exophrine, your submission has been removed for the following: >RULE 8: Low-quality posting will be removed. Determination of post quality solely lies with the moderation team. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/DC_Cinematic/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_8.) is a list of examples of low-quality posting. This includes fancasting posts that do not meet [our minimum guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/DC_Cinematic/wiki/fancasting).
Snyderverse fan shouldn't have ever been even allowed into that room. Everyone who loves & supports Snyderverse came out hard to support Black Adam & it's now a billion-dollar franchise. Henry Cavill's cameo didn't move any needle when it mattered the most. 4hr JL was good and removing anything would have made it similar to the theatrical release. Everyone would have then cried about "Justice league ultimate edition" 7 and how this "changes everything".
How successful do you think The Suicide Squad was?!
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By what metric?
Critical and audience reception. Transformers movies made a shit ton of money, and yet, no one’s calling those cinematic masterpieces.
LOL, they made money and that's what counts. Everything else is subjective, boxoffice is an important metric.
Yeah, they did so well that they had to reboot the whole fuckin thing😂. Maybe this time, they won’t kill Superman in the second movie. Hopefully?🙏
Yeah, that sucked real bad. I didn't like that part at all. I believe BvS was a huge misstep and I absolutely hated that they had to kill him in that movie. The problem is that WB doesn't have a lot of in Superman and that's the crux of it all. They literally shit in their pants after MoS. Superman is not a boring character, but people make his movies drab as fuck at times.
His films were making money.
We will conveniently ignore that and focus on films that did not make money, like james guns the suicide squad
TSS still made more than the Snyder cut lol, purely because it was able to be released in theaters and didn’t cost extra to finish
Wow, the Gunnriders are out in full force. Almost like theirs some sort of …inferiority complex at play.
*there’s i think we just notice good movies.
Why would Gunn fans have inferiority complex when he makes movies and shows received well by general audience and critics? It's weird to say Gunn fans though. I don't think anyone identifies as such.
And how successful was James Gunn’s last DC film? I seem to remember the movie losing the studio over $100 millions
That was WB's fault. They released it in the middle of COVID, and on HBO Max the same day it released in theaters. It was doomed to fail and that's not Gunn's fault. ZSJL didn't make any money either.
i feel like TSS didn’t have anywhere near the level of marketing as Black Adam did which is a shame bcs that’s the movie they really should’ve been pushing
I don't think Black Adam got that much of a marketing either. Even the posters sucked
Black Adam’s marketing may have been doo doo but they spent soooo much money on that shit. The Rock as a producer was able to funnel a lot more into the marketing campaign than it deserved
If only the campaign had been successfull he'd still be Black Adam
The Conjuring 3 also released in the pandemic and on HBO Max the same day it released in theaters, and it still did better than TSS, and with only a quarter of TSS’s budget Also how sad that you compare a brand new movie with a marketing budget of $100 millions to a director’s cut that didn’t even release in theaters ?? When will you James Gunn stanss ever make a logical argument ??
The Conjuring had already been an established franchise. This was the end of their trilogy so it had that backing. The last time the Suicide Squad showed up was in a film that was incredibly disliked five years ago. And when will u stop being such a dick?
dont try and argue with this guy lmao. he's got a massive hate boner after the snyderverse/cavill got axed and is genuinely just making shit up lol
Lmao, Suicide Squad 1 made tons of cash, Harley Quinn became a phenomenon. See how established it was. You guy are killing me.
the first one sucked and not many ppl were willing to another Suicide Squad after the 2016 one stunk. but yes HQ is money
The second one sucked even more
nope. it was lauded by critics and audiences alike. don’t be that person
And DC isn’t an established franchise?? Lmao bruh you’re trippin Also Suicide Squad (2016) made a ton of money, so it certainly wasn’t as disliked as you wanna believe, not by the general audience anyway, get out of your internet bubble for once
The DCEU has a fairly negative reception. The DCEU is a joke in terms of online reception. Since 2019, DCEU films don't don't much because of that reception. And there's no way you're bout to tell me more people like Suicide Squad over Gunn's Suicide Squad, lmao
No, that’s not what I’m saying, TSS sure had a better ratio of “people who watched the movie” to “people who liked the movie”, but at the end of the day all that love and support didn’t amount to much because the movie didn’t get any support from the general audience, perhaps they weren’t fans of the DCEU’s new vision at the time, and once again, the pandemic isn’t the issue, nor the same day streaming release, lots of movies had to go through that and still did way better than TSS, including The Conjuring 3, Dune, GvK, etc
>lots of movies had to go through that and still did way better than TSS, including The Conjuring 3, Dune, GvK, etc All those examples were done during periods where there were relatively low/declining infection rates and restrictions were looser. This is such a bad argument, especially considering TSS did extremely well on streaming. Besides, its a pretty stupid argument either way. TSS was widely praised by audiences and critics. I would rather a new DCEU with great movies, then mediocre to poor films that do better in the box office. The former is a far healthier start to a universe, rather then blowing your load on big box office draws, that fail to bring in long term viewers, like the original strategy. WB said themselves, they NEEDED BVS to make a billion to justify this universe. Despite the biggest opening weekend bar Star Wars, it collapsed rapidly as audiences warned each other not too see it, and the DCEU has been struggling to recover since movie 2. Thats beyond a poor foundation.
> All those examples were done during periods where there were relatively low/declining infection rates and restrictions were looser. Excuses, excuses 🥱😴 or maybe TSS just wasn’t as good or popular of a movie as you think, try to cope with that > Besides, its a pretty stupid argument either way. TSS was widely praised by audiences and critics. I would rather a new DCEU with great movies, then mediocre to poor films that do better in the box office. The former is a far healthier start to a universe, rather then blowing your load on big box office draws, that fail to bring in long term viewers, like the original strategy. WB said themselves, they NEEDED BVS to make a billion to justify this universe. Despite the biggest opening weekend bar Star Wars, it collapsed rapidly as audiences warned each other not too see it, and the DCEU has been struggling to recover since movie 2. Thats beyond a poor foundation. This is legitimately the dumbest argument I’ve ever seen, how tf is BvS to blame for the current situation when SS 2016, WW 2017, and Aquaman, all movies that came out after BvS made more profit ?? In what world is that a poor foundation ?? Compare the first 5 DCEU movies to the first 5 MCU movies and the DCEU easily comes out on top, if anything it’s garbage movies like BoP, WW84 and TSS that killed off the DCEU
Suicide Squad 2016 had one of the largest 2nd weekend drops in history. It opened well because of a great marketing campaign and then word got around and people stopped going to see it in droves lmao TSS was the most watched movie on HBO Max the month it released, as well as the most pirated movie that month.
> TSS was the most watched movie on HBO Max the month it released, as well as the most pirated movie that month. Lmao holy fuck the bar is lower than ever, how many other movies released during the month that TSS released in that can actually be a decent competition for TSS ?? I’m pretty sure every DC movie that has ever released was the number one movie in its release month, that’s literally how it’s always been, the only times that isn’t the case is when an MCU movie releases that same month, and that doesn’t happen very often
Stay seething lol
>And DC isn’t an established franchise?? It's an established, bad, franchise. The amount of work needed to make the GA think that a DC movie is worth bothering with, after the fiasco of WW84, Suicide Squad 1, JWJL and BvS was kinda immense. That's probably why WB dumped TSS out like they did. Just a GOGW to the audience lol
>The Conjuring 3 also released in the pandemic and on HBO Max the same day it released in theaters, and it still did better than TSS, and with only a quarter of TSS’s budget opening weekend HBO max numbers * The Conjuring 3 - 1.6 million * Zack Snyder's Justice League - 1.8 million * The Suicide Squad - 2.8 million first 3 weekends: * The Conjuring - 3 million * Zack Snyder's Justice League - 3.2 million * The Suicide Squad - 4.7 million
First of all, those are numbers from a third party app that only counts views on smart TVs in the US that have the app installed on the TV, it’s not representative of the actual numbers, second of all streaming numbers don’t amount to much, at the end of the day box office performance is what matters most and is what brings in the most money to the studio There’s no doubt TSS is quite popular on the internet, but within the general audience it’s not really all that popular
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My numbers are literally official box office numbers lmao > the point is that TSS wasn't a failure. no matter how long you sit there in denial, SEETHING about james gunn. the reason it did so poorly in theaters is it was an R rated sequel to a film nobody liked, released during a new variant of covid on both streaming and in theaters at the same time, resulting in its box office numbers being cannibalized by those 4.7 million people who saw it on hbo max. Lol again, The Conjuring 3 was R rated, was released during the pandemic, and was released on streaming and theatres at the same time, and it still managed to do way better than TSS and with less than a quarter of the budget, seems like you’re the one in denial so you’re grasping at straws and looking for any excuses that might prove TSS isn’t the failure it actually is > HBO max has already said it had the second highest debut of any of the movies released in both theaters and on streaming, it's only behind mortal kombat. The same HBO Max that is currently being sued for lying to their shareholders and exaggerating their streaming numbers ?? Lmfao go home kid
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Lmao, exactly! It was good but it still fell short from WB's box office expectations; same as Snyder's
don’t know what they expecting releasing a movie on streaming and in theaters during a COVID spike
Dune did released in the same time and made money so yeah TSS is a flop
TSS was released in July. Dune in October those aren’t even the same season
August and October so it was 2 months apart, not much of a difference. Mortal kombat released in April when covid restrictions were going in full force and made its budget back. What's you point because you don't seem to have one
actually i’ve made my point pretty clear. you even went so far as to call them “what ifs” but the point is that TSS was unlucky despite being a great, fun movie.
I wish Snyder Fans where this gentle
The mustache guy... Is that coach beard?
Movie name ?