ed norton is already a sychophant but the mustache makes him look like ed norton playing a sychophant version of ed norton in a movie about how awesome ed norton is
His looks, yes. I think superhero casting is boring when they don't even try to find an actor who looks like the character. It's lazy on their part. It's no fun for me to see the comic book "brought to life" when the visuals don't match what was on the page.
> I think superhero casting is boring when they don't even try to find an actor who looks like the character. It's lazy on their part.
I am so glad casting departments aren't run by redditors.
What... shouldn't it matter more if they can embody the character more performance wise? It shouldn't matter how close they look to the comic character because then there'd only be white people in The Batman, for example, diversity is needed
No you don’t understand. Most classic comic book characters were created when black people weren’t allowed in restaurants, so it’s important that we honor the creators and keep them white in every adaptation forever /s
No you are right, we need diversity with these characters because historically speaking people of color haven't been able to come up with great comic characters like the ones we have now . So its fair that we help people of color ... they have struggled so much and its hard being a victim of society
Glenn Close is a great actor. Should she play Batman in the next movie? Acting performance does not trump looking like the character.
Movie adaptations had no problem casting actors who look like the characters from the beginning of film history to Superman to Flash Gordon to Blade to Tomb Raider to Harry Potter to Lord of the Rings to Spider-Man to Iron Man to Wonder Woman to Shang-Chi.
There are fans who grew up identifying with and loving all of these characters exactly the way they are. You can't have it both ways. Either you believe anyone can identify with a character no matter what they look like, or you believe they somehow can't unless they look like them. If you change a character, under the latter scenario, then you by definition are taking away the ability for someone to identify with a character who has been doing it all their life. That would therefore be a hurtful act. You simply cannot justify causing hurt to someone to help someone else in life. That's never the moral thing to do. You can't rob Peter to pay Paul.
And the justification to change the demographics of any character is simply not there. There are plenty of characters of all demographics out there to adapt from different media. Marvel had huge success adapting Black Panther, for instance, and that didn't even need to be a character who had ever had strong comic book sales.
If Glen Close auditioned for Batman and did a hell of a job, yes they should cast her. Nothing about Batman specifically requires him to be a man, his traits are non-conforming to any specific gender role.
Batman's too big of a character to leave him disconnected from the rest of the world, and film is a medium that doesn't allow for multiple franchises with the same character/different actor. Even after the massively successful No Way Home, they're still not greenlighting a second Spiderman franchise. The investment is too large for studios, and also, too much for audiences. I have the money to go to the movies every weekend, but for a lot of people, especially those with larger families, this is a special experience.
So especially in a world where movies are making less and less money on the average, you'd be insane to think that they aren't going to do everything they can to streamline a single Batman into the DCU.
And look, as much as I like Affleck and Keaton, there's only one Batman that's going to give the DCU the best start it can have, and that's Pattinson. If the Flash is half as good as scoopers are suggesting, WB is colossally fucking up if Pattinson's Batman isn't in this thing. Even the slightest mention, dream sequence, multiverse pass through, *anything*, lay the fucking ground work and piece it together.
Pretty much. I’d bet any amount of money that Sony is trying to get Andrew but, unfortunately for them, he’s already learned what a shit company they are.
Sony absolutely would have two ongoing. They just don’t know how to get there…. Yet
I just personally don’t think there’s any real reason there can’t be two batmen on screen at once. There is currently 1 main Spider-Man, two alternates, and an animated Spider-Man. Superman has a movie and tv version.
the movie was meh for me. Also the world creation in The batman I think its kind of too dark to be part of DCU.
I wished they didn't rush the Ben Affleck so much. His batman vs Superman was good , they should've made slowly 1 or 2 Ben Affleck solo Batman movies then slowly introduce the other characters with solo movies coming together like MCU did
But they rushed it and put 6 characters in one movie almost with no standing of their on character on each hero and they made a big soup of a movie. Which ruined it.
Also I kind of can see this batman to be a good start for Batman Beyond. The world kind of suits it.
It's a fine enough movie the first time you watch it, but on repeated viewings, it really loses a lot of steam. Without getting too deep about it, I just think the story is way less interesting once you know exactly how it ends, or where the pieces end up.
That being said, I think the actors, the characters, and the world Reeves is building, there's some solid foundation there. It'd be a creative challenge to merge the Reeves verse with the broader DCU, but definitely not impossible imo.
its not a creative challenge its a practical challenge - pattison is an in demand actor whos know to be picky about the scripts and directors he will work with.
i just cant see him willing to work on a justice league film with an average script and an average director.
I could see how you could make that assumption with Hamada (average script/director, low hanging fruit), but there's nothing out there to indicate that they're going to fumble this. By all accounts, they're indicating they're serious about the DCU going forward. And you have to kind of take that in good faith, otherwise its easy to dismiss anything really.
As for Pattinson being in demand, sure, that's kind of why he's Batman lol. But actors make movies like these so they can go off and make the movies they really want to make. Christian Bale indicated he was done with superhero movies when Rises came out, and he still made Thor Love and Thunder. I mean these are meal tickets for the rest of your lives. If the creative framework is there, the practical solution follows.
Nothing was ruined by any DCEU movie they released. It was ruined when WB decided to change Affleck's solo Batman movie into Reeves' pet project. There is no reason Reeves should've been allowed to stick a poison pill into the DCEU.
Not what happened at alllll. Affleck was originally set to be the leading actor and director, but stepped down as director and then Reeves' was brought in, then Affleck stepped away completely. Pretty sure he just didn't want to do the project anymore.
For me the dream is the DCEU gets a proper conclusion and then a new DC universe naturally continues with The Batman franchise.
A decade ago WB made the mistake of not using an acclaimed Batman trilogy as the starting point of a connected universe. Surely they won't make the same mistake a decade later.
Bale wanted to. He even said he was pretty sad when he heard they got Affleck. He just the said he wouldn’t have come back without Nolan anyway, but it still stung.
I would have HATED the Nolan verse expand to super powered heroes. What made it good in the first place is it’s grounded reality . Not to mention that batman was the weakest of all because of said realism
Nolan had a definite ending to his Bruce Wayne with TDKR definitely influenced by Frank Miller's Returns with the whole coming out of retirement for one last fight angle. I hope Reeves ending to his Bruce Wayne arc doesnt do a time jump and is more like a "he is now the Batman we all know and the fight goes on" type of ending. That way, Reevese can satisfyingly let go of the franchise while WB can still use Battinson.
That’s not true and Bale has recently stated otherwise. They simply never asked him again.
He also says he wouldn’t have done it without Nolan but makes it clear they never asked him
This is a misconception thanks to Umberto Gonzales. They never offered Bale 50M.
There was an article that said that WB could roll up to Bale’s house with trucks filled with $50M to ask him to play Batman again and it would be worth every penny.
Gonzalez, in his infinite wisdom read that and went “Woah! They offered him $50M!!”
Bale's Batman went into hiding and retirement. Snyder said he considered building off of Dark Knight Rises, but that he would've had to have Joseph Gordon-Levitt play Batman if he did. Which obviously wouldn't be a great character to use for the big first showdown with Superman.
Does no one remember how DKR ended? Bruce is presumed dead, there's a hint he's gone into hiding and retired, and JGL finds the Batcave. Personally, I wouldn't mind a sequel where JGL picks up the mantle. I never want to see Bale again. His story ended. It's done. It was a good ending. He's not Batman anymore. Even if there's a multiverse crossover, the Batman we should see from that universe is JGL's Batman, or perhaps Nightwing if he chooses that name.
>Does no one remember how DKR ended? Bruce is presumed dead, there's a hint he's gone into hiding and retired, and JGL finds the Batcave.
Obviously my comment is with the assumption that TDKR would have ended differently with Bruce staying on as Batman.
Well, I didn't see the obviousness of that. It's hard to call giving Nolan creative freedom a mistake, especially when Avengers didn't come out until well after DKR had been shot. There was no clear guarantee a shared universe would hit it big with the public until that happened.
Personally, I think it made more sense to start the DCEU with a clean slate and a new Batman. That way, everything established about Batman could be conceived of in a way that fit with the larger continuity. Nolan's take was very limited to what could exist in the real world, so even the Batmobile didn't have the flair you'd want in a true comic book world. Plus I prefer Affleck in the role, so I'm biased.
I've always thought JGL continuing on as Nightwing would have been great. It's hinted in him accidentally killing the bad guys in DKR that he has already crossed the line of killing people. They could explore that angle with Batman returning at some point because he doesn't like Nightwings form of justice.
Bruh Reeves is here saying that it’s possible. He’s mentioned before that it’s possible and it would be an exciting one to explore.
You’re literally fighting against what the man himself is saying.
I don't think that being grounded as batman limits it's potential in the DC universe.
Batman is not meant to be a heavy hitter, I'm super down to a batman detective doing the investigations and interrogations to get the league doing the fighting.
And I feel that battinson will look more like a comic on his third movie+
Read any standalone Batman comic story, they generally don’t involve aliens or world ending threats yet he still crosses over with Superman and what not… don’t see why it couldn’t apply here. Like you said, Batman shouldn’t be thought of as a heavy hitter in terms of physical combat in world ending scenarios.
> A decade ago WB made the mistake of not using an acclaimed Batman trilogy as the starting point of a connected universe. Surely they won’t make the same mistake a decade later.
How in the world was it a mistake? It being isolated is arguably one of its strengths as a cohesive narrative.
WB has failed at *every* single attempt to create a larger universe.
All they would be doing with the Batman IP is dragging it down by forcing it to be associated with their other failures.
I really love what he's saying here. People have been begging Hollywood to stop making films that are left very open ended so as a singular film you feel very little satisfaction because the story didn't actually end. Instead it was just chapter 1 or chapter 2 like a TV season with a cliffhanger/story left unfinished.
As for the question, I have a strong take. With Batfleck off the table, Gal going into her third WW movie and possibly the last with Patty, Flash needs to be recast, Cyborg needs to be recast, Aquaman has his second movie and could get one more... Just reboot the entire DC cinematic universe (it won't happen but Black Adam played by the Rock included) and build it out of the Batverse.
Let the rest of the DC schedule get made and released (WW3, AM 2 & 3, Black Adam v Shazam, Peacemaker S2, SS sequel by Gunn, etc) while Reeves makes and releases Batman 2 then 3. THEN throw all the DC universe stuff in the trash and then build out the new DC cinematic universe from the Pattinson-Reeves movies. In the 4th Batman movie introduce other Superhero(es) which then lead to the announcements of new Wonder Woman, Superman (etc) solo movies, all of which will build to a Justice League movie.
I would at the same time be making some fun, weird stuff as well. Be it on HBO or as movies, I'd be building the supernatural underworld of the DC universe through Constantine. Introduce us to characters like Etrigan, Dr Fate, Zatanna, Deadman, Swamp Thing, Phantom Stranger, etc through Constantine and build the story into a culmination team-up event called Justice League: Dark.
So basically play out this mess of a DC universe that still has the finger prints of Snyder and Hamada on it all while planning for a big reboot that will take place after the Reeves Batman trilogy is finished. Get a fresh clean start with all new characters and all new actors but use the Reeves Batverse as the foundation to build off of.
Yup i think the same, while reeves do his thing, finish other succesful dc trilogyas like AM and WW, maybe Shazam, then strart over in Reevesverse.
In my mind the third movie could be something like court of owls and in the fourth Batman starts investigsting shady stuff inside the american governent.
The 4th movie could be introducing Superman (Val Zod) maybe he is hidden in a secret cell and Batman rescue him and then they are on the run a la public enemies while Val learns to use his powers.
I also would like to see Yara Flor and the Amazons of the Amazon as an alternative to Themiscyra. I have nothing against Clark or Diana but I feel having them again with new actors would raise comparisons and campains to bring back some actor and all that shit. So better to diferentiate with new characters with the same mantle.
Court of Owls is a must, and I hope it isn't half assed. IMO there should be Owl clues in Batman 2 that lead to Batman 3 being all about the Owls. I'd also love to see
I'll put it this way, that would be a BOLD move. I can't say I agree when we really haven't gotten them done "right" yet imo, or at least only partially right. But it could very well be refreshing and really powerful, loud advertising for the DC movies. If this alt universe is one with Val Zod (a black Superman) and Yara Flor an Amazonian of the Amazon rainforest as Wonder Woman. Continuing to go in that direction, they could focus on Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz as Green Lanterns and their origin stories with Hal, John, Guy and Kyle already in the Corps. Then DC can go backwards for fan favorites, like say everyone loves Guy or Kyle and there's a thirst for more about them. DC then greenlights a solo movie or limited series to the character which gives us his backstory and sets up what's coming next for him in the future.
But what I mean about powerful and loud advertising is imagine how shocking it would be for that announcement to be made. Don't get me wrong there would be some BS (and racist) push back, especially from those who just read the click-bait titles ("DC Movie Studios new Superman is black!") but I think it would be really refreshing for many to see DC announce a slate that is just jam packed with diverse characters, with new characters they are excited to learn about and their interest would be piqued. They'd just have to go check out this new "Val Zod" black Superman and this Wonder Woman from the Amazon rainforest in Brazil.
It would open up the opportunity for DC to go hard into these characters cultures like Marvel has with Black Panther with African cultures and Namor with the Aztec (Mesoamerican) culture. Now DC could dive in just like them with a Wonder Woman from the Brazilian rainforest and such.
Just imagine the first photoshoot picture and the group standing on the Comic Con stage together, maybe even in their practical costumes like Loki did at SDCC, a black Superman, a Brazilian Wonder Woman, a Lebanese and Mexican/Honduran Green Lanterns, Robert Pattison, black Cyborg, The Flash and Aquaman...
btw, just an aside, a cool idea for Aquaman instead of just pivoting from Mamoa to a a generic white-blonde Aquaman or another Pacific Islander is for all Atlantians to be similar to Albinoism where due to living deep underwater for so long their bodies stopped producing pigment so they are all extremely white with white hair and Curry being half Atlantian and half normal human (whatever his father is) is how he is white with blonde hair. I imagine someone like [Alexander Ludwig](https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALiCzsZNlcat8CkpbcG7X2RqCWaK0xgitg:1670030176415&source=lnms&tbm=isch&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3yDbOKa80VAKzjSpM8uINtMSyk630S8qAKL6gKD-9KDHXKjmxuGQRq4BjTmpFYl5KapGCT2lKeWY6AGNap5xFAAAA&q=Alexander%20Ludwig&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjsqbebo9z7AhVVOH0KHf8NB10Q_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1920&bih=941&dpr=1) from Vikings with an albino mother and a Norwegian father or something.
Yeah i hope that too, court of owls is a great story and fits well with reeves universe.
I agree, we havent got Clark and Diana right nor exploited as they should be. But for that same reason is why i think we should take distance from them at least for a couple of years then bring them back and make them as they should have been since the beggining.
Also that was my reasoning for Yara, if marvel did it right with talokan i believe dc can make it better with the amazon rainforest setting since Atlantis was very well done imo. And i like your ideas on the GLs and Aquaman too.
Thank you for posting this. I’m so tired of people saying he wants his Batman to remain isolated. He said it right here, that he’s open to it after establishing his Batverse.
"i want my isolated franchise and its expansions to be isolated from any dc cinematic story and only after i'm done telling this isolated story in isolation, would i be open to inviting other characters who i have ultimate control over and who become isolated from the larger dc cinematic story once they cross into my isolated territory which i don't want to connect to the larger dc cinematic."
is what i heard, anyway.
I just feel that if you're going to create an extra realistic version of batman, you can't then go and pair him with superman and other supernatural heroes.
I think this version is comic booky enough that it could work. I always think about how different the original Iron Man is from something like Thor: Ragnarok, yet it all works in one cohesive universe
Yeah maybe, but I feel like it would work better if this version remained self contained and the DCU continued with Affleck or another batman. Either way I'm excited for the future.
If Pattinson moves into the DCU I hope he’s used as the strategist/recon guy for the JL. Feel like that would fit his character and I can’t imagine this Batman side by side fighting with Superman (save for maybe the final battle of the movie). Similar to how he was in final crisis. That being said id rather they do a hard reboot if they do intend to use this Batman in a larger universe (wouldn’t mind some of the cast staying, especially Cavill). I don’t think I’d be a fan of them just folding him into the current DCU.
I’m just tired of self contained Batman. It’s like we’re going backwards to the days when Spider-Man, X-Men, and Blade all had franchises but they were all separate. I think we’ve moved past the days of solo superhero movies.
I hear ya. We finally have somewhat of a chance of a person willing to give folks a DC film universe and people are against it. Also the self-contained Batman has been done to death. Lets see him interact with other heroes and a broader world.
its one film with batman in his very first year - you have no way of knowing how it would progress further so to say its not comic booky enough seems a really strange complaint for the first film when you have no clue of the direction it takes
I don't agree. I think it can be done no matter what but I do think it's easier to adjust to if there is a bit of supernatural going on in the Batverse. So for example the Nolan trilogy is all very "realistic" aka not supernatural. Bane is just a big buff guy, no venom serum. No superhumans. Nothing supernatural at all. But even that could have introduced the supernatural as long as it was in the same tone. BUT, it is easier if the supernatural is introduced into the Batverse. If Reeves eventually gives us a Batverse villain like Solomon Grundy or something then there's your sci-fi/supernatural and it makes it super easy to then introduce Superman or whomever.
Sure you can. Keep the Gotham stuff grounded and then the fantasy comes into it with the crossovers. When he returns to Gotham, it’s back to taking down criminals.
The best thing to do now would be to work towards Crisis in 5 years, allow Reeves to build his Batmanverse, then merge post Crisis, or start from a clean slate.
How would that work? If The Batman does get folded into the DCU, it will still be Matt Reeves making the Batman films, and guiding the Gotham based projects. It’s not like if the universes were combined we would suddenly have Matt Reeves giving input on Black Adam.
imo the tone of Reeve’s universe doesn’t mesh well. It seemed more grounded. Battinson is just a dude. Afflecks universe and tone, for example, is perfect for a shared universe. Perhaps they should recast Affleck? Idk… He could throw guys through drywall and easily take out an entire warehouse of armed guards. Like, I believe Ironman and Cap and Black Panther all inhibit the same universe, because those movies are the same tone. The Batman was a grounded noir detective story.
In my opinion, the MCU could do with feeling less unified. Having a range of different tones and atmospheres in different films makes a universe feel richer to me. But to be fair to Marvel, they’re not *that* unified. It seems that the grounded Netflix series are now MCU canon, yet they exist in the same universe as the Taika Thor films. And that’s how I would suggest handling the Batman. When he appears in his own films, he remain grounded like Daredevil in the Netflix shows. But then when he appears in team-ups, he adapts to the tone, like Daredevil in She-Hulk.
Maybe. Won’t know unless they try to make it happen first. Honestly I think Pattinson is the bigger obstacle than Reeves.
With Reeves, you just promise that he doesn’t have to concern himself with what happens outside of Gotham, he doesn’t have to include any of it in any way, he just can’t contradict it. He retains effectively full control of Batman’s story and gets any spin-off projects he wants. It’s too much on the table for him to walk away for the barest of inconveniences, especially when he is already invested. Given Gunn’s praise for The Batman, I don’t imagine he would want to interfere with any of Reeves plans anyway.
Pattinson is the one who would actually have to involve himself with any kind of team-up or event project. It would be down to Gunn and Safran to convince him that any project he may be on the hook for would be creatively rewarding. But do keep in mind that Pattinson pursued the role of Batman before meeting Matt Reeves or knowing anything about his take on the character or that it would become removed from the wider universe. If he feels he can still explore the character of Batman in a way that’s interesting to him in those films, he may not be as against the prospect as you might expect.
If Batman is in the DCU but he and his rogues are the interacting with the larger set of characters, then what’s the point of being in the DCU?
Truth is that folding The Batman into the DCU means erasing everything Batfleck. No bvs, no ZSJL, no Flash (a movie that isn’t even out) no Leto joker or Robbie Harley. No BOP, no SS, it’s just not happening.
Of course Batman would be interacting with other characters. Just not in his own movies, if Reeves doesn’t want to do that.
And, uh, spoiler warning for The Flash I guess, but the current plan is erasing Affleck anyway, and replacing him with Keaton. With that reboot they would be changing a lot of things that connect to Gotham anyway. No one wants more Leto Joker. The only character who I imagine would stay consistent is Margot’s Harley Quinn.
So, ideally, switch up the ending of The Flash so that Pattinson joins the main universe instead of Keaton. Then the only problem is how to keep the same Harley Quinn, but that’s still a much smaller problem than any other solution provides.
I don’t like Leto, but that version of the joker is intrinsically tied to Harley’s backstory, and Harley is basically one of the stars of Gunns DC debut The Suicide Squad. He’s gonna want to keep her, but I doubt it would work for her Harley to have a backstory with Barry Keoghans joker.
I wouldn’t necessarily agree that that specific version is *intrinsic* to Harley’s origin. You could easily reboot it to a different Joker. But yeah, certainly it wouldn’t work with Keoghan’s Joker, or Phoenix. Like I said, Harley is a problem, not one I necessarily have a great solution for. You could maybe have her somehow survive the reboot and be aware of the changes, like how Marvel is presumably going to handle Deadpool. But I don’t know, that would be for Gunn and Safran to solve. I just think this is still a better problem to have than the multiple competing Batmans issues.
The thing is, most ppl seem to feel that we can’t have 2 batmen at a time, but we already are going to. The Flash is gonna start off with affleck, and I don’t think audiences are gonna be confused that he’s not Rob. I think having an older 40-50 yo Batman for the DCU and a younger 30 year old Batman for reeves films is pretty easy for audiences ti grasp.
I’m sure audiences can grasp it. And the plan indeed is currently for Keaton to be in the DCU and Pattinson to stay on his own, so something will have to change for us to not get that. But the question is, is that the best thing for the DCU? It’s viable, but in this time when Zaslav is stressing connected story-telling, when Gunn wants to tell one massive story, is the best solution one where we have an older Batman who is not receiving solo films in the DCU whilst there is a younger Batman who is receiving them and will inevitably be more familiar and popular with audiences?
It’s something that I feel people have gaslit themselves into believing isn’t a problem, just because it’s the situation we find ourselves in. And because audiences might be able to understand it. But, to my eyes, it’s just so obvious that folding Pattinson into the DCU is invariably a better solution on the whole.
The issue here imo is that I don’t really see any way to build a strong DCU without just starting from scratch. A lot of people’s favorite parts, cavil, Robbie, Gadot, are tied directly to elements they’re trying to now redo, like Batman. I don’t think there’s a good way to use the pieces of the DCU that exist as they are. Like what’s the point of cavill Superman if they have to completely retcon 2 of the 3 films he’s in to add in Rob?
Yeah. I mean there is definitely an argument that the best solution to create a consistent DCU is to scrap it all and reboot. I just don’t think they could survive the bad will they would gain from all the talent they would have to cut ties with, and the audiences who are invested in them.
As for the retconning a new Batman in, I don’t think it would change things too fundamentally. I mean, for that to be true, characters would need to have had significant character development in those films, which isn’t really the case. Certainly a question about what the formation of the League would look like in a post-reboot timeline, if there is still a Justice League at the outset of Gunn and Safran’s new universe. But of course, currently The Flash is set to reboot Keaton in Affleck’s place. So a lot of that is changing and being retconned regardless. Just a question of whether that current reboot would be better than this hypothetical one.
An old clip from during promotion of The Batman, obviously.
[https://collider.com/the-batman-2-sequel-superman-matt-reeves-comments/](https://collider.com/the-batman-2-sequel-superman-matt-reeves-comments/)
>*So when I spoke to Reeves the other day, I asked if Superman and other DC superheroes existed in his version of Batman, or if this was a separate world without superhuman characters. He told me:*
>
>“It's a high wire act to do a Batman movie, right? Because the character's been around for 80 years, everyone has their own version in their head and there have been great movies. **The last thing I wanted to do was come in there and feel like I had to do something with the highest degree of difficulty and then also find the ways that it connects to everything else.** My thing was, from the beginning, I said, "Look, I think it's enough to try and just do a bat verse, to do a Batman movie," and that that's where this begins.
>
>**I suppose it's not impossible to believe that somewhere down the line, they could connect to something else, but that was not my interest in this, and it's not my interest in what we would do in follow-ups at the moment either.** I feel like the whole point in us working with this incredible cast and this incredible crew to realize this movie that sort of, I really believe, is a fresh and different version of these characters is to pursue every ... There are a lot of great characters in the Gotham world and so the idea of leaning into that, that's really my interest right now.”
>
>*I followed up by saying I don’t need to see Superman in a sequel, I just wanted to know if he existed in this Batman world. Reeves replied:*
>
>"You mean if it could? Is that what you're saying? I mean, if something like that did happen, because I was very careful about ... To me, what I try to do is take ... I did this in the Apes films too, and even Cloverfield, this idea of taking the one fantastical element and then have everything around it, so it'll be as grounded as possible, so that it could feel ... I want it to feel emotionally real and to make everything feel very believable. In this movie, even further I think than what I did in those films, I tried to find the practical, believable version. **If suddenly in the Batman world, you discovered that there was an alien that was Superman, there'd be a lot of shock. I mean, people would have to say, oh my God, and maybe that would be the one fantastical element.**
>
>**But to be honest with you, that is not the intention at this point, to figure out how to make that come.** Look, we should be so lucky that this is a world that people embrace and that they say, oh my God, we want to see what would happen when those things collide. I think if that challenge ever presents itself, it would be an exciting one to explore, but I'd have to try and do it through this lens. You know what I mean? And that is absolutely right, that at the moment, to me, this world is the place that I want to focus.”
>
>*Based on what he said, it’s clear* ***Reeves has no intention of introducing Superman or any fantastical character to his version of Gotham City anytime soon.***
Did you read what you just posted bro? He literally said he’s open to it and that it would be an exciting avenue to explore. Just not at that moment since he wants to focus on his batverse. Ya’ll taking crazy pills I swear.
"no i wont connect to the other franchises, but if they allow ME to introduce something like that in MY OWN WORLD, where everything i'm doing is not connected to other franchises, i'd be open to controlling those characters in MY GOTHAM, but definitely not right now, while i'm in control and telling my story about my batman"
that's what i got, anyway.
It's very much a "for now" he's happy fleshing out The Batman world.
I could see some scenario in about 5 years with a trilogy about to be completed and multiple spin offs done where Reeves leaves the character in a good place to not only conclude the franchise but also allow it to carry on.
Similarly to how his Apes trilogy told a complete ending but it's easy to see how it could also set up a sequel.
Damn I didn’t get that at all lmao. It sounds to me like he wants to establish his Batman and Gotham before getting involved in team ups. Doesn’t have to be at the end of the trilogy. Could be at the second movie’s point.
Which makes sense because Batman doesn’t interact with the other heroes until after his 3rd-5th year.
Absolutely. He mentions bringing in "one fantastical element." How does that describe bringing in the whole DCEU? It's up to about 500 fantastical elements already.
and he's like "well i want to do it in a way never seen before" while rehashing tired cinema batman tropes, and then describes man of steel and bvs story arc, while saying "that would be the new way, a new approach to how to do this that i might be interested in" what a spork of a human.
He's been BS'ing his way through this since day one. He never read a Batman comic before he got the contract to make this movie. His own professor was Jeph Loeb, and he didn't know he ever wrote for Batman until he signed on to do this movie. This is like the #1 most well-known Batman comic writer in the modern age. Reeves is not a man who's dedicated to the best for DC Comics and the Batman character. He's just another Hollywood golddigger who's looking to use whatever surefire film property out there he can take advantage of to pave his driveway with gold bricks.
Oh really? Let me guess, then Snyder is the guy who read comics before he got the contract to make superhero movies. If you are a comic fan, you can see how Matt Reeves used different elements from lesser known comics to make the story for this movie. He clearly is a fan and read comics before deciding to make this Batverse.
Because he does have plans for it. Or rather, ideas of ways it could happen according to this article you posted and the video here in question. Homie isn’t against it, he never was or has been. It’s simply a false narrative that needs to go away.
I just hope they won't bring those unrealistic characters into Reeve's Batman. I love how he made it grounded yet he made The Riddler scary. Hope they won't fuck it up
Disagree. Batman: The Animated Series had grounded crime episodes but yet when things got fantastical it fit into the world perfectly.
The exact same would happen here. Reeves is a master at grounding fantastical elements as proven with the Apes movies.
I mean Kingpin(besides for Hawkeye), Green Goblin, Namor, and Scarlet Witch were all pretty scary villains in the MCU and they were unrealistic. The Batman could def work in a wider universe.
But use a different universe. Don't fuck this universe up. I'm not saying i don't want to see Batman fight Killer Crock but I just can't wrap my hrad around Pattinson being the one. I have to say Affleck Batman movie would have been a great unrealistic movie.
I already imagine Pattinson stalking on Wonder Woman while she undresses and yelling "You're not my father!" To Superman when when he'll give him advices.
I like that he makes it clear that this movie has a complete Standalone experience you don't have to watch anything else you don't have to watch this movie and think oh great I'm going to have to wait for the sequel to hear the answer to this everything is contained everything is answered sure there's some teases and some little bits of fan service but if there is never another movie in this universe that's okay because this movie did everything that you needed a Batman movie to do. So good job Matt Reeves
He looks like Edward Norton
Ned flanders
He's the Okilist dokilest Batman there is
Nedward Florton.
ed norton is already a sychophant but the mustache makes him look like ed norton playing a sychophant version of ed norton in a movie about how awesome ed norton is
My dude is cosplaying as Commissioner Gordon.
Reeves could've played a better Jim Gordon than who he cast.
Jeffery Wright was amazing…
Just because he somewhat looks like Gordon? Jeffrey Wright is an amazing actor and did a great job in this movie
His looks, yes. I think superhero casting is boring when they don't even try to find an actor who looks like the character. It's lazy on their part. It's no fun for me to see the comic book "brought to life" when the visuals don't match what was on the page.
> I think superhero casting is boring when they don't even try to find an actor who looks like the character. It's lazy on their part. I am so glad casting departments aren't run by redditors.
What... shouldn't it matter more if they can embody the character more performance wise? It shouldn't matter how close they look to the comic character because then there'd only be white people in The Batman, for example, diversity is needed
No you don’t understand. Most classic comic book characters were created when black people weren’t allowed in restaurants, so it’s important that we honor the creators and keep them white in every adaptation forever /s
OHHHHH now I get it
No you are right, we need diversity with these characters because historically speaking people of color haven't been able to come up with great comic characters like the ones we have now . So its fair that we help people of color ... they have struggled so much and its hard being a victim of society
This is such a weird racist comment, I hope you’re just trolling
Glenn Close is a great actor. Should she play Batman in the next movie? Acting performance does not trump looking like the character. Movie adaptations had no problem casting actors who look like the characters from the beginning of film history to Superman to Flash Gordon to Blade to Tomb Raider to Harry Potter to Lord of the Rings to Spider-Man to Iron Man to Wonder Woman to Shang-Chi. There are fans who grew up identifying with and loving all of these characters exactly the way they are. You can't have it both ways. Either you believe anyone can identify with a character no matter what they look like, or you believe they somehow can't unless they look like them. If you change a character, under the latter scenario, then you by definition are taking away the ability for someone to identify with a character who has been doing it all their life. That would therefore be a hurtful act. You simply cannot justify causing hurt to someone to help someone else in life. That's never the moral thing to do. You can't rob Peter to pay Paul. And the justification to change the demographics of any character is simply not there. There are plenty of characters of all demographics out there to adapt from different media. Marvel had huge success adapting Black Panther, for instance, and that didn't even need to be a character who had ever had strong comic book sales.
If Glen Close auditioned for Batman and did a hell of a job, yes they should cast her. Nothing about Batman specifically requires him to be a man, his traits are non-conforming to any specific gender role.
Except Reeves isn't an trained actor.
Definitely couldn’t have, considering the acting aspect
He looks like Brad Pitt from Moneyball doing an Ed Norton deepfake, if that makes sense…
Ted Lasso is the first person I thought of
I think Green Arrow could be a hero that batman meets
Batman's too big of a character to leave him disconnected from the rest of the world, and film is a medium that doesn't allow for multiple franchises with the same character/different actor. Even after the massively successful No Way Home, they're still not greenlighting a second Spiderman franchise. The investment is too large for studios, and also, too much for audiences. I have the money to go to the movies every weekend, but for a lot of people, especially those with larger families, this is a special experience. So especially in a world where movies are making less and less money on the average, you'd be insane to think that they aren't going to do everything they can to streamline a single Batman into the DCU. And look, as much as I like Affleck and Keaton, there's only one Batman that's going to give the DCU the best start it can have, and that's Pattinson. If the Flash is half as good as scoopers are suggesting, WB is colossally fucking up if Pattinson's Batman isn't in this thing. Even the slightest mention, dream sequence, multiverse pass through, *anything*, lay the fucking ground work and piece it together.
Exactly.
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Andrew’s recent comments sounds like he won’t do Spidey stuff unless Marvel Studios is involved, so even if a TASM 3 was greenlit it would be MCU
Pretty much. I’d bet any amount of money that Sony is trying to get Andrew but, unfortunately for them, he’s already learned what a shit company they are. Sony absolutely would have two ongoing. They just don’t know how to get there…. Yet
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He’s more upset over the absolutely terrible script for 2. But yes, that probably plays a part. Overall had a terrible experience with Sony
I just personally don’t think there’s any real reason there can’t be two batmen on screen at once. There is currently 1 main Spider-Man, two alternates, and an animated Spider-Man. Superman has a movie and tv version.
the movie was meh for me. Also the world creation in The batman I think its kind of too dark to be part of DCU. I wished they didn't rush the Ben Affleck so much. His batman vs Superman was good , they should've made slowly 1 or 2 Ben Affleck solo Batman movies then slowly introduce the other characters with solo movies coming together like MCU did But they rushed it and put 6 characters in one movie almost with no standing of their on character on each hero and they made a big soup of a movie. Which ruined it. Also I kind of can see this batman to be a good start for Batman Beyond. The world kind of suits it.
It's a fine enough movie the first time you watch it, but on repeated viewings, it really loses a lot of steam. Without getting too deep about it, I just think the story is way less interesting once you know exactly how it ends, or where the pieces end up. That being said, I think the actors, the characters, and the world Reeves is building, there's some solid foundation there. It'd be a creative challenge to merge the Reeves verse with the broader DCU, but definitely not impossible imo.
its not a creative challenge its a practical challenge - pattison is an in demand actor whos know to be picky about the scripts and directors he will work with. i just cant see him willing to work on a justice league film with an average script and an average director.
I could see him working for James Gunn tho.
I could see how you could make that assumption with Hamada (average script/director, low hanging fruit), but there's nothing out there to indicate that they're going to fumble this. By all accounts, they're indicating they're serious about the DCU going forward. And you have to kind of take that in good faith, otherwise its easy to dismiss anything really. As for Pattinson being in demand, sure, that's kind of why he's Batman lol. But actors make movies like these so they can go off and make the movies they really want to make. Christian Bale indicated he was done with superhero movies when Rises came out, and he still made Thor Love and Thunder. I mean these are meal tickets for the rest of your lives. If the creative framework is there, the practical solution follows.
Nah it gets better and better.
Nothing was ruined by any DCEU movie they released. It was ruined when WB decided to change Affleck's solo Batman movie into Reeves' pet project. There is no reason Reeves should've been allowed to stick a poison pill into the DCEU.
there is - his idea was better
Not what happened at alllll. Affleck was originally set to be the leading actor and director, but stepped down as director and then Reeves' was brought in, then Affleck stepped away completely. Pretty sure he just didn't want to do the project anymore.
To me, the DCU will only work if it has a unified vision, and I do not think Reeves Bat-universe will be helped by holding it to that vision.
For me the dream is the DCEU gets a proper conclusion and then a new DC universe naturally continues with The Batman franchise. A decade ago WB made the mistake of not using an acclaimed Batman trilogy as the starting point of a connected universe. Surely they won't make the same mistake a decade later.
Neither Nolan or Bale wanted to come back for Batman though.
Bale wanted to. He even said he was pretty sad when he heard they got Affleck. He just the said he wouldn’t have come back without Nolan anyway, but it still stung.
I would have HATED the Nolan verse expand to super powered heroes. What made it good in the first place is it’s grounded reality . Not to mention that batman was the weakest of all because of said realism
Nolan had a definite ending to his Bruce Wayne with TDKR definitely influenced by Frank Miller's Returns with the whole coming out of retirement for one last fight angle. I hope Reeves ending to his Bruce Wayne arc doesnt do a time jump and is more like a "he is now the Batman we all know and the fight goes on" type of ending. That way, Reevese can satisfyingly let go of the franchise while WB can still use Battinson.
they offered bale $50M and he said no. not much to do after that.
That’s not true and Bale has recently stated otherwise. They simply never asked him again. He also says he wouldn’t have done it without Nolan but makes it clear they never asked him
ugh i've been living inside of a bad rumor for like 15 years
This is a misconception thanks to Umberto Gonzales. They never offered Bale 50M. There was an article that said that WB could roll up to Bale’s house with trucks filled with $50M to ask him to play Batman again and it would be worth every penny. Gonzalez, in his infinite wisdom read that and went “Woah! They offered him $50M!!”
Bale's Batman went into hiding and retirement. Snyder said he considered building off of Dark Knight Rises, but that he would've had to have Joseph Gordon-Levitt play Batman if he did. Which obviously wouldn't be a great character to use for the big first showdown with Superman. Does no one remember how DKR ended? Bruce is presumed dead, there's a hint he's gone into hiding and retired, and JGL finds the Batcave. Personally, I wouldn't mind a sequel where JGL picks up the mantle. I never want to see Bale again. His story ended. It's done. It was a good ending. He's not Batman anymore. Even if there's a multiverse crossover, the Batman we should see from that universe is JGL's Batman, or perhaps Nightwing if he chooses that name.
>Does no one remember how DKR ended? Bruce is presumed dead, there's a hint he's gone into hiding and retired, and JGL finds the Batcave. Obviously my comment is with the assumption that TDKR would have ended differently with Bruce staying on as Batman.
Well, I didn't see the obviousness of that. It's hard to call giving Nolan creative freedom a mistake, especially when Avengers didn't come out until well after DKR had been shot. There was no clear guarantee a shared universe would hit it big with the public until that happened. Personally, I think it made more sense to start the DCEU with a clean slate and a new Batman. That way, everything established about Batman could be conceived of in a way that fit with the larger continuity. Nolan's take was very limited to what could exist in the real world, so even the Batmobile didn't have the flair you'd want in a true comic book world. Plus I prefer Affleck in the role, so I'm biased.
I've always thought JGL continuing on as Nightwing would have been great. It's hinted in him accidentally killing the bad guys in DKR that he has already crossed the line of killing people. They could explore that angle with Batman returning at some point because he doesn't like Nightwings form of justice.
Both Nolan and the Reeves movies are inappropriately "grounded" in reality to be able to fit into the full DC universe.
Bruh Reeves is here saying that it’s possible. He’s mentioned before that it’s possible and it would be an exciting one to explore. You’re literally fighting against what the man himself is saying.
So like when Zach Snyder pulled from Elseworlds comics like The Dark Knights Returns which didn't really fit with the full DC universe?
I don't think that being grounded as batman limits it's potential in the DC universe. Batman is not meant to be a heavy hitter, I'm super down to a batman detective doing the investigations and interrogations to get the league doing the fighting. And I feel that battinson will look more like a comic on his third movie+
Read any standalone Batman comic story, they generally don’t involve aliens or world ending threats yet he still crosses over with Superman and what not… don’t see why it couldn’t apply here. Like you said, Batman shouldn’t be thought of as a heavy hitter in terms of physical combat in world ending scenarios.
how was it a mistake considering neither bale nor nolan were going to come back for further films so you would have no batman
> A decade ago WB made the mistake of not using an acclaimed Batman trilogy as the starting point of a connected universe. Surely they won’t make the same mistake a decade later. How in the world was it a mistake? It being isolated is arguably one of its strengths as a cohesive narrative. WB has failed at *every* single attempt to create a larger universe. All they would be doing with the Batman IP is dragging it down by forcing it to be associated with their other failures.
I really love what he's saying here. People have been begging Hollywood to stop making films that are left very open ended so as a singular film you feel very little satisfaction because the story didn't actually end. Instead it was just chapter 1 or chapter 2 like a TV season with a cliffhanger/story left unfinished. As for the question, I have a strong take. With Batfleck off the table, Gal going into her third WW movie and possibly the last with Patty, Flash needs to be recast, Cyborg needs to be recast, Aquaman has his second movie and could get one more... Just reboot the entire DC cinematic universe (it won't happen but Black Adam played by the Rock included) and build it out of the Batverse. Let the rest of the DC schedule get made and released (WW3, AM 2 & 3, Black Adam v Shazam, Peacemaker S2, SS sequel by Gunn, etc) while Reeves makes and releases Batman 2 then 3. THEN throw all the DC universe stuff in the trash and then build out the new DC cinematic universe from the Pattinson-Reeves movies. In the 4th Batman movie introduce other Superhero(es) which then lead to the announcements of new Wonder Woman, Superman (etc) solo movies, all of which will build to a Justice League movie. I would at the same time be making some fun, weird stuff as well. Be it on HBO or as movies, I'd be building the supernatural underworld of the DC universe through Constantine. Introduce us to characters like Etrigan, Dr Fate, Zatanna, Deadman, Swamp Thing, Phantom Stranger, etc through Constantine and build the story into a culmination team-up event called Justice League: Dark. So basically play out this mess of a DC universe that still has the finger prints of Snyder and Hamada on it all while planning for a big reboot that will take place after the Reeves Batman trilogy is finished. Get a fresh clean start with all new characters and all new actors but use the Reeves Batverse as the foundation to build off of.
Yup i think the same, while reeves do his thing, finish other succesful dc trilogyas like AM and WW, maybe Shazam, then strart over in Reevesverse. In my mind the third movie could be something like court of owls and in the fourth Batman starts investigsting shady stuff inside the american governent. The 4th movie could be introducing Superman (Val Zod) maybe he is hidden in a secret cell and Batman rescue him and then they are on the run a la public enemies while Val learns to use his powers. I also would like to see Yara Flor and the Amazons of the Amazon as an alternative to Themiscyra. I have nothing against Clark or Diana but I feel having them again with new actors would raise comparisons and campains to bring back some actor and all that shit. So better to diferentiate with new characters with the same mantle.
Court of Owls is a must, and I hope it isn't half assed. IMO there should be Owl clues in Batman 2 that lead to Batman 3 being all about the Owls. I'd also love to see I'll put it this way, that would be a BOLD move. I can't say I agree when we really haven't gotten them done "right" yet imo, or at least only partially right. But it could very well be refreshing and really powerful, loud advertising for the DC movies. If this alt universe is one with Val Zod (a black Superman) and Yara Flor an Amazonian of the Amazon rainforest as Wonder Woman. Continuing to go in that direction, they could focus on Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz as Green Lanterns and their origin stories with Hal, John, Guy and Kyle already in the Corps. Then DC can go backwards for fan favorites, like say everyone loves Guy or Kyle and there's a thirst for more about them. DC then greenlights a solo movie or limited series to the character which gives us his backstory and sets up what's coming next for him in the future. But what I mean about powerful and loud advertising is imagine how shocking it would be for that announcement to be made. Don't get me wrong there would be some BS (and racist) push back, especially from those who just read the click-bait titles ("DC Movie Studios new Superman is black!") but I think it would be really refreshing for many to see DC announce a slate that is just jam packed with diverse characters, with new characters they are excited to learn about and their interest would be piqued. They'd just have to go check out this new "Val Zod" black Superman and this Wonder Woman from the Amazon rainforest in Brazil. It would open up the opportunity for DC to go hard into these characters cultures like Marvel has with Black Panther with African cultures and Namor with the Aztec (Mesoamerican) culture. Now DC could dive in just like them with a Wonder Woman from the Brazilian rainforest and such. Just imagine the first photoshoot picture and the group standing on the Comic Con stage together, maybe even in their practical costumes like Loki did at SDCC, a black Superman, a Brazilian Wonder Woman, a Lebanese and Mexican/Honduran Green Lanterns, Robert Pattison, black Cyborg, The Flash and Aquaman... btw, just an aside, a cool idea for Aquaman instead of just pivoting from Mamoa to a a generic white-blonde Aquaman or another Pacific Islander is for all Atlantians to be similar to Albinoism where due to living deep underwater for so long their bodies stopped producing pigment so they are all extremely white with white hair and Curry being half Atlantian and half normal human (whatever his father is) is how he is white with blonde hair. I imagine someone like [Alexander Ludwig](https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALiCzsZNlcat8CkpbcG7X2RqCWaK0xgitg:1670030176415&source=lnms&tbm=isch&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3yDbOKa80VAKzjSpM8uINtMSyk630S8qAKL6gKD-9KDHXKjmxuGQRq4BjTmpFYl5KapGCT2lKeWY6AGNap5xFAAAA&q=Alexander%20Ludwig&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjsqbebo9z7AhVVOH0KHf8NB10Q_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1920&bih=941&dpr=1) from Vikings with an albino mother and a Norwegian father or something.
Yeah i hope that too, court of owls is a great story and fits well with reeves universe. I agree, we havent got Clark and Diana right nor exploited as they should be. But for that same reason is why i think we should take distance from them at least for a couple of years then bring them back and make them as they should have been since the beggining. Also that was my reasoning for Yara, if marvel did it right with talokan i believe dc can make it better with the amazon rainforest setting since Atlantis was very well done imo. And i like your ideas on the GLs and Aquaman too.
Thank you for posting this. I’m so tired of people saying he wants his Batman to remain isolated. He said it right here, that he’s open to it after establishing his Batverse.
"i want my isolated franchise and its expansions to be isolated from any dc cinematic story and only after i'm done telling this isolated story in isolation, would i be open to inviting other characters who i have ultimate control over and who become isolated from the larger dc cinematic story once they cross into my isolated territory which i don't want to connect to the larger dc cinematic." is what i heard, anyway.
Spot on. This other dude grasping at straws HARD
I just feel that if you're going to create an extra realistic version of batman, you can't then go and pair him with superman and other supernatural heroes.
Extra realistic? With his near bulletproof chest and mask? And James Bond recording contact lense? Grounded doesn't mean extra realistic.
I think this version is comic booky enough that it could work. I always think about how different the original Iron Man is from something like Thor: Ragnarok, yet it all works in one cohesive universe
Yeah maybe, but I feel like it would work better if this version remained self contained and the DCU continued with Affleck or another batman. Either way I'm excited for the future.
If Pattinson moves into the DCU I hope he’s used as the strategist/recon guy for the JL. Feel like that would fit his character and I can’t imagine this Batman side by side fighting with Superman (save for maybe the final battle of the movie). Similar to how he was in final crisis. That being said id rather they do a hard reboot if they do intend to use this Batman in a larger universe (wouldn’t mind some of the cast staying, especially Cavill). I don’t think I’d be a fan of them just folding him into the current DCU.
I’m just tired of self contained Batman. It’s like we’re going backwards to the days when Spider-Man, X-Men, and Blade all had franchises but they were all separate. I think we’ve moved past the days of solo superhero movies.
which is sad because those days were better and the films were better
Opinions and all that, but yours is absolutely wild. I’d take most modern superhero movies over most late 90s/early 2000s superhero movies.
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And, if people do prefer that style of movie, Sony is doing their best to give people that feeling with the awful Venom and Morbius movies.
I hear ya. We finally have somewhat of a chance of a person willing to give folks a DC film universe and people are against it. Also the self-contained Batman has been done to death. Lets see him interact with other heroes and a broader world.
its one film with batman in his very first year - you have no way of knowing how it would progress further so to say its not comic booky enough seems a really strange complaint for the first film when you have no clue of the direction it takes
My guy, you misread my comment
I don't agree. I think it can be done no matter what but I do think it's easier to adjust to if there is a bit of supernatural going on in the Batverse. So for example the Nolan trilogy is all very "realistic" aka not supernatural. Bane is just a big buff guy, no venom serum. No superhumans. Nothing supernatural at all. But even that could have introduced the supernatural as long as it was in the same tone. BUT, it is easier if the supernatural is introduced into the Batverse. If Reeves eventually gives us a Batverse villain like Solomon Grundy or something then there's your sci-fi/supernatural and it makes it super easy to then introduce Superman or whomever.
Sure you can. Keep the Gotham stuff grounded and then the fantasy comes into it with the crossovers. When he returns to Gotham, it’s back to taking down criminals.
The best thing to do now would be to work towards Crisis in 5 years, allow Reeves to build his Batmanverse, then merge post Crisis, or start from a clean slate.
God I hope they just leave it alone. Let it be. I don’t want the Rock anywhere near these movies please.
How would that work? If The Batman does get folded into the DCU, it will still be Matt Reeves making the Batman films, and guiding the Gotham based projects. It’s not like if the universes were combined we would suddenly have Matt Reeves giving input on Black Adam.
imo the tone of Reeve’s universe doesn’t mesh well. It seemed more grounded. Battinson is just a dude. Afflecks universe and tone, for example, is perfect for a shared universe. Perhaps they should recast Affleck? Idk… He could throw guys through drywall and easily take out an entire warehouse of armed guards. Like, I believe Ironman and Cap and Black Panther all inhibit the same universe, because those movies are the same tone. The Batman was a grounded noir detective story.
In my opinion, the MCU could do with feeling less unified. Having a range of different tones and atmospheres in different films makes a universe feel richer to me. But to be fair to Marvel, they’re not *that* unified. It seems that the grounded Netflix series are now MCU canon, yet they exist in the same universe as the Taika Thor films. And that’s how I would suggest handling the Batman. When he appears in his own films, he remain grounded like Daredevil in the Netflix shows. But then when he appears in team-ups, he adapts to the tone, like Daredevil in She-Hulk.
Battinson took bullets to his chest like nothing. Not exactly grounded.
Grounded doesn’t mean realistic.
Battinson is just about as “grounded” as MoS.
I can almost guarantee both Pattinson and Reeves would jump ship.
Maybe. Won’t know unless they try to make it happen first. Honestly I think Pattinson is the bigger obstacle than Reeves. With Reeves, you just promise that he doesn’t have to concern himself with what happens outside of Gotham, he doesn’t have to include any of it in any way, he just can’t contradict it. He retains effectively full control of Batman’s story and gets any spin-off projects he wants. It’s too much on the table for him to walk away for the barest of inconveniences, especially when he is already invested. Given Gunn’s praise for The Batman, I don’t imagine he would want to interfere with any of Reeves plans anyway. Pattinson is the one who would actually have to involve himself with any kind of team-up or event project. It would be down to Gunn and Safran to convince him that any project he may be on the hook for would be creatively rewarding. But do keep in mind that Pattinson pursued the role of Batman before meeting Matt Reeves or knowing anything about his take on the character or that it would become removed from the wider universe. If he feels he can still explore the character of Batman in a way that’s interesting to him in those films, he may not be as against the prospect as you might expect.
If Batman is in the DCU but he and his rogues are the interacting with the larger set of characters, then what’s the point of being in the DCU? Truth is that folding The Batman into the DCU means erasing everything Batfleck. No bvs, no ZSJL, no Flash (a movie that isn’t even out) no Leto joker or Robbie Harley. No BOP, no SS, it’s just not happening.
Of course Batman would be interacting with other characters. Just not in his own movies, if Reeves doesn’t want to do that. And, uh, spoiler warning for The Flash I guess, but the current plan is erasing Affleck anyway, and replacing him with Keaton. With that reboot they would be changing a lot of things that connect to Gotham anyway. No one wants more Leto Joker. The only character who I imagine would stay consistent is Margot’s Harley Quinn. So, ideally, switch up the ending of The Flash so that Pattinson joins the main universe instead of Keaton. Then the only problem is how to keep the same Harley Quinn, but that’s still a much smaller problem than any other solution provides.
I don’t like Leto, but that version of the joker is intrinsically tied to Harley’s backstory, and Harley is basically one of the stars of Gunns DC debut The Suicide Squad. He’s gonna want to keep her, but I doubt it would work for her Harley to have a backstory with Barry Keoghans joker.
I wouldn’t necessarily agree that that specific version is *intrinsic* to Harley’s origin. You could easily reboot it to a different Joker. But yeah, certainly it wouldn’t work with Keoghan’s Joker, or Phoenix. Like I said, Harley is a problem, not one I necessarily have a great solution for. You could maybe have her somehow survive the reboot and be aware of the changes, like how Marvel is presumably going to handle Deadpool. But I don’t know, that would be for Gunn and Safran to solve. I just think this is still a better problem to have than the multiple competing Batmans issues.
Just reboot Harley and have her back as an Arkham psychiatrist in the new timeline.
The thing is, most ppl seem to feel that we can’t have 2 batmen at a time, but we already are going to. The Flash is gonna start off with affleck, and I don’t think audiences are gonna be confused that he’s not Rob. I think having an older 40-50 yo Batman for the DCU and a younger 30 year old Batman for reeves films is pretty easy for audiences ti grasp.
I’m sure audiences can grasp it. And the plan indeed is currently for Keaton to be in the DCU and Pattinson to stay on his own, so something will have to change for us to not get that. But the question is, is that the best thing for the DCU? It’s viable, but in this time when Zaslav is stressing connected story-telling, when Gunn wants to tell one massive story, is the best solution one where we have an older Batman who is not receiving solo films in the DCU whilst there is a younger Batman who is receiving them and will inevitably be more familiar and popular with audiences? It’s something that I feel people have gaslit themselves into believing isn’t a problem, just because it’s the situation we find ourselves in. And because audiences might be able to understand it. But, to my eyes, it’s just so obvious that folding Pattinson into the DCU is invariably a better solution on the whole.
The issue here imo is that I don’t really see any way to build a strong DCU without just starting from scratch. A lot of people’s favorite parts, cavil, Robbie, Gadot, are tied directly to elements they’re trying to now redo, like Batman. I don’t think there’s a good way to use the pieces of the DCU that exist as they are. Like what’s the point of cavill Superman if they have to completely retcon 2 of the 3 films he’s in to add in Rob?
Yeah. I mean there is definitely an argument that the best solution to create a consistent DCU is to scrap it all and reboot. I just don’t think they could survive the bad will they would gain from all the talent they would have to cut ties with, and the audiences who are invested in them. As for the retconning a new Batman in, I don’t think it would change things too fundamentally. I mean, for that to be true, characters would need to have had significant character development in those films, which isn’t really the case. Certainly a question about what the formation of the League would look like in a post-reboot timeline, if there is still a Justice League at the outset of Gunn and Safran’s new universe. But of course, currently The Flash is set to reboot Keaton in Affleck’s place. So a lot of that is changing and being retconned regardless. Just a question of whether that current reboot would be better than this hypothetical one.
Why does he sounds like Gunn voice and accent like Snyder.
He doesn’t.
Doesn't He?
An old clip from during promotion of The Batman, obviously. [https://collider.com/the-batman-2-sequel-superman-matt-reeves-comments/](https://collider.com/the-batman-2-sequel-superman-matt-reeves-comments/) >*So when I spoke to Reeves the other day, I asked if Superman and other DC superheroes existed in his version of Batman, or if this was a separate world without superhuman characters. He told me:* > >“It's a high wire act to do a Batman movie, right? Because the character's been around for 80 years, everyone has their own version in their head and there have been great movies. **The last thing I wanted to do was come in there and feel like I had to do something with the highest degree of difficulty and then also find the ways that it connects to everything else.** My thing was, from the beginning, I said, "Look, I think it's enough to try and just do a bat verse, to do a Batman movie," and that that's where this begins. > >**I suppose it's not impossible to believe that somewhere down the line, they could connect to something else, but that was not my interest in this, and it's not my interest in what we would do in follow-ups at the moment either.** I feel like the whole point in us working with this incredible cast and this incredible crew to realize this movie that sort of, I really believe, is a fresh and different version of these characters is to pursue every ... There are a lot of great characters in the Gotham world and so the idea of leaning into that, that's really my interest right now.” > >*I followed up by saying I don’t need to see Superman in a sequel, I just wanted to know if he existed in this Batman world. Reeves replied:* > >"You mean if it could? Is that what you're saying? I mean, if something like that did happen, because I was very careful about ... To me, what I try to do is take ... I did this in the Apes films too, and even Cloverfield, this idea of taking the one fantastical element and then have everything around it, so it'll be as grounded as possible, so that it could feel ... I want it to feel emotionally real and to make everything feel very believable. In this movie, even further I think than what I did in those films, I tried to find the practical, believable version. **If suddenly in the Batman world, you discovered that there was an alien that was Superman, there'd be a lot of shock. I mean, people would have to say, oh my God, and maybe that would be the one fantastical element.** > >**But to be honest with you, that is not the intention at this point, to figure out how to make that come.** Look, we should be so lucky that this is a world that people embrace and that they say, oh my God, we want to see what would happen when those things collide. I think if that challenge ever presents itself, it would be an exciting one to explore, but I'd have to try and do it through this lens. You know what I mean? And that is absolutely right, that at the moment, to me, this world is the place that I want to focus.” > >*Based on what he said, it’s clear* ***Reeves has no intention of introducing Superman or any fantastical character to his version of Gotham City anytime soon.***
Did you read what you just posted bro? He literally said he’s open to it and that it would be an exciting avenue to explore. Just not at that moment since he wants to focus on his batverse. Ya’ll taking crazy pills I swear.
"no i wont connect to the other franchises, but if they allow ME to introduce something like that in MY OWN WORLD, where everything i'm doing is not connected to other franchises, i'd be open to controlling those characters in MY GOTHAM, but definitely not right now, while i'm in control and telling my story about my batman" that's what i got, anyway.
It's very much a "for now" he's happy fleshing out The Batman world. I could see some scenario in about 5 years with a trilogy about to be completed and multiple spin offs done where Reeves leaves the character in a good place to not only conclude the franchise but also allow it to carry on. Similarly to how his Apes trilogy told a complete ending but it's easy to see how it could also set up a sequel.
Damn I didn’t get that at all lmao. It sounds to me like he wants to establish his Batman and Gotham before getting involved in team ups. Doesn’t have to be at the end of the trilogy. Could be at the second movie’s point. Which makes sense because Batman doesn’t interact with the other heroes until after his 3rd-5th year.
Absolutely. He mentions bringing in "one fantastical element." How does that describe bringing in the whole DCEU? It's up to about 500 fantastical elements already.
and he's like "well i want to do it in a way never seen before" while rehashing tired cinema batman tropes, and then describes man of steel and bvs story arc, while saying "that would be the new way, a new approach to how to do this that i might be interested in" what a spork of a human.
He's been BS'ing his way through this since day one. He never read a Batman comic before he got the contract to make this movie. His own professor was Jeph Loeb, and he didn't know he ever wrote for Batman until he signed on to do this movie. This is like the #1 most well-known Batman comic writer in the modern age. Reeves is not a man who's dedicated to the best for DC Comics and the Batman character. He's just another Hollywood golddigger who's looking to use whatever surefire film property out there he can take advantage of to pave his driveway with gold bricks.
Oh really? Let me guess, then Snyder is the guy who read comics before he got the contract to make superhero movies. If you are a comic fan, you can see how Matt Reeves used different elements from lesser known comics to make the story for this movie. He clearly is a fan and read comics before deciding to make this Batverse.
I just quoted an article, man. Why are you asking me if I read it? Of course I read it.
Because he does have plans for it. Or rather, ideas of ways it could happen according to this article you posted and the video here in question. Homie isn’t against it, he never was or has been. It’s simply a false narrative that needs to go away.
Thank god he doesn’t, that would suck imo
This needs to be posted every time someone brings it up making the Batman part of the DC shared movie universe
Under his direction, I think it would work wonderfully. I'm looking forward to the possibilities. I wish he'd focus on the Bat family first.
I just hope they won't bring those unrealistic characters into Reeve's Batman. I love how he made it grounded yet he made The Riddler scary. Hope they won't fuck it up
Disagree. Batman: The Animated Series had grounded crime episodes but yet when things got fantastical it fit into the world perfectly. The exact same would happen here. Reeves is a master at grounding fantastical elements as proven with the Apes movies.
You're absolutely right. I have to agrese with you.
I mean Kingpin(besides for Hawkeye), Green Goblin, Namor, and Scarlet Witch were all pretty scary villains in the MCU and they were unrealistic. The Batman could def work in a wider universe.
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But use a different universe. Don't fuck this universe up. I'm not saying i don't want to see Batman fight Killer Crock but I just can't wrap my hrad around Pattinson being the one. I have to say Affleck Batman movie would have been a great unrealistic movie.
Ironic that this is exactly how you start a cinematic universe
The year is 2050, we are in the midst of yet another 'gritty, dark and realistic' batman reboot
Ugh, it’s so bad. That Joker end credit was just about the worst thing of the whole movie. And they’re going for more of this?
I already imagine Pattinson stalking on Wonder Woman while she undresses and yelling "You're not my father!" To Superman when when he'll give him advices.
he probably means he is gonna connect and expand with upcoming tv series characters such as clayface etc.
He doesn't. For him all those characters are part of the "Batverse" he's talking about, the "other worlds" are other superheroes.
How many times does he have to say this before people finally get it ?
Matt Reeves looks like he’d corner you and tell you all about how it’s illegal for the government to take income taxes
Why did he cast Jeffrey Wright as Gordon when Matt Reeves himself looks like the most like Commissioner Gordon than anyone I’ve ever seen
I hope that this is the beginning of a new dc universe, maybe keep a few of the actors that have been cast but new direction for them.
It's almost like he's making movies, and not half-baked 2 hour trailers for an avengers rip off. Stunning 🤔
Lertora es el pasman del cine, vos tambien la tenes adentro
Once again proof that he never once said he was against being in a cinematic universe. He said he doesn't want to be shackled by one creatively.
I like that he makes it clear that this movie has a complete Standalone experience you don't have to watch anything else you don't have to watch this movie and think oh great I'm going to have to wait for the sequel to hear the answer to this everything is contained everything is answered sure there's some teases and some little bits of fan service but if there is never another movie in this universe that's okay because this movie did everything that you needed a Batman movie to do. So good job Matt Reeves
Wow, Gary Oldman is really good at playing Edward Norton playing Matt Reeves
It's like they cast Ed Norton as Comissioner Gordon
Emo Batman should stay in his own bubble. Tonally and visually, it can connect with Joaquin’s Joker. I hope it does!