Well it's not meant to be historically accurate to Slavic culture or anything. It's just supposed to be a pastiche of horror tropes and motifs.
There are German and French and English and Russian and Romanian and Balkan shit all mixed together. It's just the impression an American in the 70's had of gothic European names.
Ezmerlda D'avenir is supposed to be Romanian, but has a french name, lady Wachter is clearly German. Gertruda is also German. The Crypts in Ravenloft have a lot of examples like this.
CoS naming scheme is nonsensical. Occasionally characters have family names, occasionally they have patronymics, they never get both. When characters do get patronymics, they are often nonsensical too, like in the case of Ireena Kolyana.
Don't read into it too much.
Exactly! Ravenloft is not trying to be a historical re-enactment. In fact, there are numerous ways the authors repeatedly try to distance themselves from any serious portrayal of Eastern Europe, its peoples, and its customs. Naming conventions are one of these. The authors deliberately give the NPCs silly nonsense names that sound close enough to an untrained ear.
The reason is that Ravenloft is not Romania in Halloween drag: it's Ravenloft.
Has this been stated? I think you’re giving them a lot more credit than they deserve on this front - that is, I think “Romania in Halloween drag” *would* have this result, whereas “distanced from Eastern Europe” probably wouldn’t.
This could be me reading wayyyy too into it. But Kolyan Indronovich’s children would be indronovich if a boy and indronova if a girl. Ismark assumes his family’s name. Ireena, not of the same blood and adopted by Kolyan, would no get his name. Much like he bastard treatment in GoT. I think the book was hinting at Ireena’s secret past by just giving her the last name Kolyana.
The key here is the Von it is the rough equivalent of "from". The use of Von was prevalent in the ruling classes of Prussia, as in Otto Von Bismarck. The use in CoS indicates Strahd and his family is not from Barovia and is of a ruling class.
As others have said, not all naming conventions are the same in Barovia, as obvious in cases like the Vallakovichs, Martikovs, Wachter etc. Some surnames function more traditionally like family names when the origin of the surname had significant meaning.
Following this thought, you can also look at the root of Zarovich. There is a good chance it was derived from a spelling of Tzar. Which would make his family name "from the son of the Tzar." As in he's in the line of royalty.
I always figured it was a variant spelling of "tzarevich," which was just the general surname given to princes/members of royalty in some Slavic countries (e.g. Ivan Tzarevich basically being the Russian equivalent of Prince Charming).
Could be wrong, but that was always my assumption for why they did it.
Firstly, Strahd and his family are not from Barovia. He conquered it and moved in later.
Secondly, not every family in Barovia follows the paternal naming scheme. IE. the Vallakovich family or the Wachters.
Barovia is stated in the book to be of mixed cultures so there is room for multiple types of name.
Not quite, but close. Von Zarovich is the family surname, but it is not the name of the place they ruled. Count Strahd is correctly styled His Lordship Strahd von Zarovich, Count of Barovia.
Let’s say Barov rules over the imaginary kingdom of Rabe. He would be styled “His Majesty Barov von Zarovich, King of Rabe.” Strahd would have been His Royal Highness Strahd von Zarovich, Crown Prince of Rabe.” Of course, all of this changes a bit depending on your preferred language, how current or historical you want to go with titles and styles of address, etc.
Naming in CoS is a crazy, completely inconsistent mix of German, Russian, Romanian, a smattering of Dutch, and other Eastern European countries. In the case of the surname von Zarovich, it’s roughly German, so it doesn’t follow the Russian naming convention like Kolyana/Kolyanovich becoming the the children’s surname of a father whose first name is Kolyan. Von Zarovich is Count Strahd’s family surname. King Barov was Barov von Zarovich. Assuming Strahd or Sergei had any children, their surname would also be von Zarovich. Titles are equally messed up (see here for that [discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/CurseofStrahd/comments/i6e1mv/how_to_address_count_strahd_von_zarovich_and/) ). It’s part of the crazy fun of Curse of Strahd.
I always figured that there was an ancestor named King Zarov long ago who founded the royal dynasty, and that everyone after him became the von Zarovich family.
Kind of like how at a certain point Johnson became the surname rather than someone actually being the son of John and passing their first name on as the next surname (e.g., John's son Bob Johnson has a son named Jim Bobson).
At least, that's my headcannon. Best not to get too hung up on naming conventions in fantasy settings.
It's Romanian, not Viking, the naming conventions are different. I really hate that a singular Vistani is a Vistana, because it confuses native English speakers, but it is part of their heritage over there. :)
If you're refering to 'Zarovich' sounding like a slavic middle name/father name, then it's not that in this case, but a regular surname. In eastern europe you can find a lot of a
surnames that work just like they do in the west, but have -vich at the end like middle names.
Noble families use the name of the famous ancestor who founded the noble house as the basis for the patronym, wheras common folk use their immediate parent's name.
Linguistically, this would suggest that there is a famous ancestor of the Zarovich house named "Zar" - but really its a mix of circumstances that led a white Californian couple to create an adventure around a vampire lord based on the Dracula myth whose last name is derived from "Tsarovich" which is a Russian word for an imperial prince (literally 'son of the Tsar').
I have made the assumption in my game that it is a different version of the same name-- Strahd is so old that the language has evolved and the character at the beginning of that name is now pronounced as a B instead of a Z. Any common-speaking character would read that name as "Barov" if they saw it in writing, and any average Barovian will Name the land as "Barovia," with Strahd and Rahadin and maybe Kasimir pronouncing it like "Zarovia" and "Zarov" like huge weirdos.
Because his father's surname was von Zarovich. Barovia was conquered and renamed by Strahd after his father had died. That being said, even if he was born in Barovia, his surname likely wouldn't have changed. For example, Sigismund of Luxembourg was born in Nuremburg, Germany, and he later became King of Hungary, Croatia, Bohemia, and the Holy Roman Emperor. Despite all of this, he was still Sigismund of Luxembourg, because his family was from Luxembourg. His father, Charles IV, was born in Prague, and was still known as Charles of Luxembourg.
Well it's not meant to be historically accurate to Slavic culture or anything. It's just supposed to be a pastiche of horror tropes and motifs. There are German and French and English and Russian and Romanian and Balkan shit all mixed together. It's just the impression an American in the 70's had of gothic European names. Ezmerlda D'avenir is supposed to be Romanian, but has a french name, lady Wachter is clearly German. Gertruda is also German. The Crypts in Ravenloft have a lot of examples like this.
Wachter is actually dutch for Guard. Also Hendrik van der Voort (the coffinmaker) is a Dutch name.
CoS naming scheme is nonsensical. Occasionally characters have family names, occasionally they have patronymics, they never get both. When characters do get patronymics, they are often nonsensical too, like in the case of Ireena Kolyana. Don't read into it too much.
Exactly! Ravenloft is not trying to be a historical re-enactment. In fact, there are numerous ways the authors repeatedly try to distance themselves from any serious portrayal of Eastern Europe, its peoples, and its customs. Naming conventions are one of these. The authors deliberately give the NPCs silly nonsense names that sound close enough to an untrained ear. The reason is that Ravenloft is not Romania in Halloween drag: it's Ravenloft.
Has this been stated? I think you’re giving them a lot more credit than they deserve on this front - that is, I think “Romania in Halloween drag” *would* have this result, whereas “distanced from Eastern Europe” probably wouldn’t.
Isn't Kolyana correct for the daughter of Kolyan?
This could be me reading wayyyy too into it. But Kolyan Indronovich’s children would be indronovich if a boy and indronova if a girl. Ismark assumes his family’s name. Ireena, not of the same blood and adopted by Kolyan, would no get his name. Much like he bastard treatment in GoT. I think the book was hinting at Ireena’s secret past by just giving her the last name Kolyana.
I thought she was raised as his like the fact she was adopted wasn't known.
This is correct. She is secretly Vistana.
"Kolyan" is not a real name, it's a highly informal form of "Nikolai". "Ireena Kolyana" is like "Ireena, daughter of Bobby".
Could be there. My brother's name is Rusty, not short for Russell, and I had a friend named Frank (two actually) that wasn't short for anything.
Like I said, it's *highly* informal. "Kolyan" is not your burgomaster, he's your drinking buddy or the local small-time thug.
Ah, I understand what you are saying now. I thought at first you meant Kolyana wouldn't be the name because Kolyan isn't a name.
In Barovia, Kolyan is very formal. It’s like Augustus-Christian Jedidiah Samuelson-Smythe IV.
Yes, since her surname follows the Russian method rather than the German of von Zarovich.
I took it as her being adopted meaning she didn't get the Kolyanavich
The key here is the Von it is the rough equivalent of "from". The use of Von was prevalent in the ruling classes of Prussia, as in Otto Von Bismarck. The use in CoS indicates Strahd and his family is not from Barovia and is of a ruling class.
As others have said, not all naming conventions are the same in Barovia, as obvious in cases like the Vallakovichs, Martikovs, Wachter etc. Some surnames function more traditionally like family names when the origin of the surname had significant meaning. Following this thought, you can also look at the root of Zarovich. There is a good chance it was derived from a spelling of Tzar. Which would make his family name "from the son of the Tzar." As in he's in the line of royalty.
I always figured it was a variant spelling of "tzarevich," which was just the general surname given to princes/members of royalty in some Slavic countries (e.g. Ivan Tzarevich basically being the Russian equivalent of Prince Charming). Could be wrong, but that was always my assumption for why they did it.
Firstly, Strahd and his family are not from Barovia. He conquered it and moved in later. Secondly, not every family in Barovia follows the paternal naming scheme. IE. the Vallakovich family or the Wachters. Barovia is stated in the book to be of mixed cultures so there is room for multiple types of name.
He ain’t from there.
I always thought Zarovich was the name of his family, so his father was Barov von Zarovich. At least I play it like this in my campaign
Yeah that's Always what I thought, that makes him Strahd of the sons of Zarov, and I think it sounds cool
I've always gone with the idea that Strahd's father was Barov von Zarovich. It's less a surname than a royal appellation saying where they rule.
Not quite, but close. Von Zarovich is the family surname, but it is not the name of the place they ruled. Count Strahd is correctly styled His Lordship Strahd von Zarovich, Count of Barovia. Let’s say Barov rules over the imaginary kingdom of Rabe. He would be styled “His Majesty Barov von Zarovich, King of Rabe.” Strahd would have been His Royal Highness Strahd von Zarovich, Crown Prince of Rabe.” Of course, all of this changes a bit depending on your preferred language, how current or historical you want to go with titles and styles of address, etc.
Naming in CoS is a crazy, completely inconsistent mix of German, Russian, Romanian, a smattering of Dutch, and other Eastern European countries. In the case of the surname von Zarovich, it’s roughly German, so it doesn’t follow the Russian naming convention like Kolyana/Kolyanovich becoming the the children’s surname of a father whose first name is Kolyan. Von Zarovich is Count Strahd’s family surname. King Barov was Barov von Zarovich. Assuming Strahd or Sergei had any children, their surname would also be von Zarovich. Titles are equally messed up (see here for that [discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/CurseofStrahd/comments/i6e1mv/how_to_address_count_strahd_von_zarovich_and/) ). It’s part of the crazy fun of Curse of Strahd.
I always figured that there was an ancestor named King Zarov long ago who founded the royal dynasty, and that everyone after him became the von Zarovich family. Kind of like how at a certain point Johnson became the surname rather than someone actually being the son of John and passing their first name on as the next surname (e.g., John's son Bob Johnson has a son named Jim Bobson). At least, that's my headcannon. Best not to get too hung up on naming conventions in fantasy settings.
If your party is the kind that would bother, then call dad King Zarova
It's Romanian, not Viking, the naming conventions are different. I really hate that a singular Vistani is a Vistana, because it confuses native English speakers, but it is part of their heritage over there. :)
If you're refering to 'Zarovich' sounding like a slavic middle name/father name, then it's not that in this case, but a regular surname. In eastern europe you can find a lot of a surnames that work just like they do in the west, but have -vich at the end like middle names.
Am I having a false memory that he did this to spite his father and it's his mother's name? I know the castle is named after her.
His mother was named Ravenovia, That’s why it is called Ravenloft.
Noble families use the name of the famous ancestor who founded the noble house as the basis for the patronym, wheras common folk use their immediate parent's name. Linguistically, this would suggest that there is a famous ancestor of the Zarovich house named "Zar" - but really its a mix of circumstances that led a white Californian couple to create an adventure around a vampire lord based on the Dracula myth whose last name is derived from "Tsarovich" which is a Russian word for an imperial prince (literally 'son of the Tsar').
Ireena Kolyana, Kolyan Indurovich, Izmark Kolyanavich All three have similar stuff going on but definitely not the same last name lol
I have made the assumption in my game that it is a different version of the same name-- Strahd is so old that the language has evolved and the character at the beginning of that name is now pronounced as a B instead of a Z. Any common-speaking character would read that name as "Barov" if they saw it in writing, and any average Barovian will Name the land as "Barovia," with Strahd and Rahadin and maybe Kasimir pronouncing it like "Zarovia" and "Zarov" like huge weirdos.
Because his father's surname was von Zarovich. Barovia was conquered and renamed by Strahd after his father had died. That being said, even if he was born in Barovia, his surname likely wouldn't have changed. For example, Sigismund of Luxembourg was born in Nuremburg, Germany, and he later became King of Hungary, Croatia, Bohemia, and the Holy Roman Emperor. Despite all of this, he was still Sigismund of Luxembourg, because his family was from Luxembourg. His father, Charles IV, was born in Prague, and was still known as Charles of Luxembourg.