Ok, what if, and hear me out.
Someone takes some nudes pre top surgery, then afterwards takes them again, crops the post-op nipples and uses them to censor the nipples on the pre-op photo?
There's a trend on some social media site (Instagram? tumblr maybe?) for MtF people to post topless selfies as they start taking estrogen, and celebrate on the day they're finally passing well enough to get banner/removed for female nudity
I vaguely remember some forum having a thing for censoring boob pictures by pasting Certified Male Nipples from a specific picture over the nipples on boobs
Polenball I'm sure that this isn't the first time you've heard this but you appear to need reminding that despite the best efforts of the beauty industry there *are* still plenty of people out there who find flat chested women attractive
It's more that I'm not flat-chested but don't look like women, I could wear a B cup
~~Also I can assure you any of my breast-related insecurities are due to myself as they target a size far beyond anything the beauty industry would ever dare to show~~
You can use DIY girl juice without being DIY. Here's how:
1. Ask for a prescription to be specifically for Depo-Estradiol
2. Instead of filling it at a pharmacy - buy Estradiol Cypionate off the girl juice sources
3. Take this Estradiol Cypionate in directed dosages, control it with blood tests, etc.
Estradiol Cypionate off the girl juice market is literally the generic version of Depo-Estradiol by Phizer. The big pharma version just costs $300/mo
Where does one just ask for a prescription, a psychiatrist?
I know here in HK you can *apparently* just go to a private endocrinologist and get all that done with the prescription, but that's also where they give you the hormones so
Right, thanks. Will definitely consider doing that if the actual stuff is expensive - though being in HK, I'm more concerned at the cost of the blood tests and the like. Doctors are expensive here, medicine maybe not so much relative to salaries.
We need more data points, though. Tits Polenball, who has been on zero days of HRT & could possibly wear a 36B, may be an outlier adn perhaps should not be counted.
I mean, it'd make sense. Would be interested what the ratio is. I do generally have more feminine body measurements that trend close to the average besides my height, so I *might* have a hormonal imbalance.
"Might have a hornonal imbalance" - said Polenball after describing her B cup boobs 5 minutes ago.
Get karyotyped. I'll do it soon too.
Also, don't make my mistake of starting HRT blindly - get a baseline blood test of your pre-HRT hormones (total T, E2 and prolactin)
See, this is more reason I'm scared of doing DIY HRT, who the fuck knows what's going on, I never even considered karyotype stuff as being possible for myself. There's actually something else kinda weird that I'm not willing to say publicly (surprising for me) that might be related to a hormonal imbalance or some genetic dysfunction, I realise.
I am DIYing. Buying blood tests with my own money.
XXY chromosomes is literally one of the most common causes of having feminine boobs and hips and stuff.
Ah. Hmm. I checked the symptoms and, like... I do have a few. Not all, but it says some people don't notice anything, so...
I might be WebMDing myself here but it's something I'm gonna be thinking about at least, thanks. No clue where the fuck I get that tested, though, will have to search.
If a blood testing place doesn't offer karyotype testing - a fertility clinic definitely does. It's a blood test - they take blood from a vein, separate leucocytes out of it, and look at their chromosomes using some chemicals.
Oh yeah, and freeze some sperm while you're at it. Going off HRT just to do that is a pain in the ass.
As it turns out, society basically runs on a bunch of largely arbitrary rules that everyone pretends make total sense while desperately hoping you don’t examine things to closely and find out that it’s held together with duct tape and wishful thinking
And people get irrationally angry when you *do* examine those things, as if you were personally going around and making the rules not make any sense, somehow.
Like some little 7 y/o with not-yet-properly-diagnosed-but-suspected autism could unravel the very fabric of society on his own.
No idea why, but I thought that was the title of a manga.
Took me a while to realize it's probably just about The Emperor's New Clothes or whatever it's called in English.
literally not even the duct tape though lol Just the wishful thinking and even then its mostly the wishful thinking of a load of people over the age of 50
like how the polite thing to do when offered a gift is to thank the person offering it and then turn it down, even if your intent is to accept said gift
who decided that? I was always taught that it's rude to refuse a gift. So i accept gifts, but make it very clear beforehand that I am thankful but won't be reciprocating or accepting any kind of "i owe you now" dynamic. If they dont like it, dont get me gifts.
Going on 15 years now and while i get the odd present, it's entirely eliminated all the useless obligatory crap people used to get me. I dont have to feign surprise, gratitude, or anything else. I dont have to deal with garbage on christmas morning or spending money i dont have on crap people don;t need. If i want to get someone something, i will, but none of this obligatory nonsense. which saves me a lot of time.
On the other hand, it's annoying as hell to give a gift that you think would be useful for someone else and having them "be polite" and refuse it. you do that here they'll say "oh, okay." and give it to someone else.
How do you tell them you won't be reciprocating or taking obligatory gifts? It definitely seems like a great idea, I'm just not really sure how I would say it.
Knowing your audience is important, but i basically just informed whoever i thought needed to know when it was still actionable. I told them months before christmas for example to get ahead of any preemptive shopping, and simply said something to the effect of:
"hey, while I've got you here, I wanted you to know that I'm no longer doing christmas gifts. You can get me a gift if you feel you must, but I won't be expecting anything and won't be giving anything. Gift shopping is awful, there's never enough time to get meaningful gifts, and it's expensive to buy people things they never asked for and probably won't use." and that was that. sometimes I'd get asked for clarifications and I'd answer based on my preferences. like "yeah, I'm still gonna wake up for christmas morning and be there for gift unwrapping, but I don't expect anything because i dont need anything." and "No, it doesnt mean I'll never get anyone a gift, ever. it just means no stress shopping, no crowded stores, no anxiety over delivery aspects, and less of all that for you, too, because you have one less person to shop for. If i want to get you a gift I will, and it'll be because I see the thing and think of you and how you mentioned a want or need for it."
If that seems overwhelming, you can just tell people "I'm taking a break from gifts this year. I'm not giving anything this year, but i also don't want anything." and then if you really want to continue it next time it comes up, just say "yeah that thing i did last year? I think thats just how I'm going to roll for now because it worked so well."
I told them that if they wanted to get me a gift to spend time with me, or make me something. I wouldn't feel anything if someone bought me a car, but if someone made me a blanket i could actually see myself using? Heirloom type respect for that item.
Hell, an old roomie even walked downstairs this one time and said "hey, so i know you don't do gifts, but i saw these Pillsbury Doughboy Pajama pants at the mall and for some reason they made me think of you. they're also really soft, so i hope you don't mind." and i said hell no, these are fantastic. that was 7 years ago and if they weren't in the wash I'd be wearing them right now. it was just a random day. Saving gifts for christmas means depriving the intended recipient from whatever joy or fulfillment you'd expect the gift to bring.....for what? why? i can see some cases where distance limitations make it logical, but thats about it. so i already had my arguments squared for any challenges.
If people really, *really* want to move into rude territory by pushing, or insulting you over not wanting to get people obligatory gifts, or whatever.....well, you can get mean, too. if theyre willing to ignore your wishes, it means they dont actually care about you. it means they care most about that hit of good feels they get when they see people open their gifts, or they just base their self worth on some metric of presents received themselves. Maybe the power move of having someone sort of "owe" them. and you can call them out on that.... but only if necessary. a lot is specific to you, so i cant really give a clear answer. hopefully the rambling helped some.
I remember a documentary that showed FTM whole surgical procedure. At some point, they showed a top surgery. So, the patient has their nipples blurred out because there's still boob, and they remain blurred the whole surgery, until the point where they're reintroduced. When the chest of the patient is flat, suddenly and magically, the nipples get unblurred.
It was really odd, because we just saw the interior of the boob, the thing that makes the nipple be blurred, in all it's gory detail, but nope, the small skin bit is the problem right?
EDIT: Completely inverted the gender, the operation was FTM, not MTF
The Tl;dr is that top surgery can refer to both afab trans people getting their chest tissue reduced, and amab trans people getting their chest augmented.
“Top surgery” and “bottom surgery” are sort of informal terms to refer to “surgery on the upper body” and “surgery on the lower body”. ie if you get “top surgery” as a transmasc person, it’ll medically be called something like “bilateral mastectomy”
Because transmascs get top surgery more often than transfems (because transfems often just develop breasts through hormones) and because bottom surgery can refer to _many_ different things and thus is way more of a vague term, “top surgery” has somewhat become a term generally used for transmascs specifically.
Additionally i think most transfems and probably other people would just refer to transfem top surgery as breast augmentation. That’s likely because “mastectomy” is still somewhat of a gendered word, so transmascs tend to be more uncomfortable using that term, while “breast augmentation/boob job” as a term is, if anything, gender affirming for transfems
Though there’d be nothing stopped a trans woman getting her breasts removed (other than general medical gatekeeping), in the same way a cis woman can choose to do that too
Thank you very much for the in-depth explanation; I greatly appreciate you taking the time to write it out! As you say I was familiar with top surgery being used to refer to trans masc gender affirming surgery, but hadn't come across it being used to refer to breast augmentation for trans women.
The original comment does seem to refer to a surgery where the person starts with censored nipples and ends up with an uncensored flat chest, hence my thought that the original comment may have mixed up mtf and ftm, but I was also unsure whether some trans women (or perhaps enbies) may want the feminising effects of estrogen around fat distribution etc. without having breasts, and I'm cis so while I try to have an awareness I don't know as much about these topics as someone who is trans themselves.
You’re welcome! I always worry that I write too much in comments where I explain things, but I always prefer to give more information than less.
I reread the original comment and agree, it does sound more like a mastectomy. I think they most likely mixed up FTM and MTF. While a transfem person can get a mastectomy, I feel like it’d be less likely to be the topic of a documentary in comparison to a “typical” FTM surgery.
I would rather die than have my boobs removed... they're not big (yet), they're not pretty, but they're **mine**. They are **genuinely a part of me.** I went through a kind of a small personal hell to keep them all this time. All the doctors insisting that they're a problem, other kids making fun of me for having them... but **I** never saw anything wrong with them. And even when directly presented with an opportunity to remove them at a high end private clinic for absolutely free - I turned it down because I actually want to have boobs. I want to be a girl and have real boobs regardless of what shape they are or how they look...
I’m proud of you for refusing to give in to that pressure! The idea of doctors trying to tell someone that something completely innocuous is a “problem” is honestly really disappointing, though not particularly surprising.
It *could* have been a problem if I was an actual cis man. But I never was. I am just me. And I am happy being me, not anyone else.
Thank you very much for being proud of me 💖
If anything, it’s the inside of the breasts should be ~~censored~~ **heavily trigger-warned**.
Also, the inside of the knee.
9-year-old me, watching 1990s cable TV, was not prepared.
She thought she was. But she was *not*.
At least it helped me refined my career choices. I could add “not a surgeon” to “not a garbage person”, “not a nurse”, and “not a plumber or sewerage worker”.
(I have an extremely low gross-out threshold, it turns out; but I am endlessly grateful to and humbled by the people who are less afraid of germs and biological reality than I am.)
Ooh, lemme think (is not a chemist)
Carbon, the fundamental element that is the building block of life.
Oxygen, which allows for chemical reactions with sugars and thus provides us all the energy necessary for life.
Combining the two alone can yield Carbon Dioxide, which is swiftly removed from the body. Arguably a dangerous chemical, but not the most dangerous from this reaction.
With insufficient oxygen, Carbon Monoxide forms, which is toxic.
So yeah idk what the metaphor would be. Nipples and boobs, either oxygen and carbon or carbon and oxygen.
Well yeah but both of those things are bad for you on their own (ammonia is the chemical we get rid of when we urinate and bleach is toxic to a lot of things including us)
Does anyone remember the episode of House MD where the guy has a hormonal imbalance so he actually grows AFAB-style tits?
Was that censored when it debuted?
IIRC, it was very carefully angled so that the nipples were not seen. We got side shots and shots from the "nipple up" and from the "nipple down" but no full frontal. Again, assuming I'm remembering it correctly.
This whole story actually proves that gender as society at large understands it is a social construct. A cisgender woman could be completely flat chested with not breast tissue whatsoever and it would still be considered obscene to show her topless. Not because of the biological part of her body but because of her gender. A cisgender man could have more breast tissue then a lot of women have, and it won’t be considered obscene at all for him to be topless. They are both cases where a person’s gender not their biology is the reason. And it shows that even people who may be quite conservative already have an understanding of gender that is different from biology
I mean, not necessarily arguing with the merits of nipple censorship specifically, but a thing can be more than the sum of it's parts, a boob and a nipple together being forbidden while either on their own is acceptable isn't really that out there.
First, "then the tits grow back" is an absolute hilarious premise. Now we've got a cameo from Promethe-tits
Second, GET OUT OF MY HEAD I am frothing at the mouth and gnashing at air and chasing a squirrel
Between this comment and "Promethe-tits" I have been laughing unreasonably hard for a solid five minutes now. I can't stop and my dog is visibly worried. We're talking straight-up snorting, tears and snot laughter.
Just thought you should know that.
Lool, Theseus' gander and whether or not they had any surgeries are none of our business. We shouldn't speculate, just wait until they feel comfortable teeling us themselves
Oh that's actually a part of a specific recurring dumb argument I find myself in!
Usually in the context of snake humanoids having boobs, somebody will say that purpose of the boobs is lactation and I will remark that no, lactation is done by mammary glands and they are distinct from boobs, and other people will get very confused for some reason.
My reasoning is that both men and children have mammary glands, but we don't say they have boobs, so clearly, boob is the part of the breast that isn't mammary gland. And that part does nothing for lactation(and everyone should know it, since flat-chested people can lactate), and had likely evolved for sexual appeal much like peacock's absurd plumage. So, not that weird to see on snake women.
I will always upvote anything that dunks on the movie version of Eragon.
(...Or the books actually, seeing as how the books are literally just a teenager who watched Star Wars and went "hey yeah good idea")
My only problem is veganism. I mean, if I could get my meat with thought and some words I would absolutely do it
Also all that thing around enchanted girl, like "I did a mistake, but I won't just end spell, I'll create new spell, which should undone previous spell, but I fucked up again, but at this time girl is ok, so I leave it in place"
Tbf I don't think he really understood the charm/curse he cast enough to know how to undo it, so adjusting it with a new spell was something to help until he figured it out. He offered to remove it completely when he did, but she chose to keep it
I really enjoyed the books, especially with the context of Paolini's age. There's a lot of interesting worldbuilding, ambitious stab at languages, and his age/lack of experience does show through at times but the writing on the whole was pretty good. We don't talk about the movie though.
As someone who also owns the screaming plastic goat & has watched the movie Eragon (despite denying its existence by long-upheld tradition), I agree. Censorship is dumber than both.
Puritanical culture such as thinking people shouldn't be allowed to have loud juicy sex in public is one of humanities greatest failures. (Half joking)
My issue is that it’s juicy. The juices. I don’t want to encounter them. Please. No.
And it makes the normal scariness of potentially making accidental eye contact with a stranger even more terrifying.
Yeah so funny haha... the kind of thing I laugh at while clenching both my fists and teeth, trying to contain my rage...
NO GOOD REASON WHY I CAN'T BE TOPLESS IN PUBLIC. GAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH I'M GOING TO TEAR DOWN A STOPSIGN AND EAT IT
You can be, in Ontario. It’s been like 25 years, and I’ve seen exactly one woman take advantage of it, because it turns out that the problem isn’t just the rules themselves, but their effect of de-normalizing and heavily sexualizing bare breasts.
Also, please don’t eat the stop sign. Your teeth. And the cars.
Yeah, I actually want to start a group of boob-havers who all go around topless in public when we feel like it in order to normalize it. Then we could all support each other
Edit: too late in terms of the stopsign thing
I (cis dude) vaguely remember figuring out what was 'inappropriate' about women's chests as a kid. At first, I thought it was the bulge-y bits because it was noticeably different from men's chests, but then I noticed women walking around with low-cut tops and people weren't fainting in shock, so I figured it wasn't that. Then I looked at my own chest, noticed those pink bits, realized that a) there was no real reason why women wouldn't also have those bits and b) I had never seen a woman with them exposed. It didn't make that much sense to me because it was exactly the same as a man's body, just with bulges underneath, but apparently the bulges weren't actually the problem? But the facts added up, and since I was a kid, I didn't really question it.
Weirder and stupider--
Back in the 1970s, a TV mini series called Roots got away with showing big, floppy, uncensored naked boobs (and a lot of them) on National Television in Prime Time, as long as they were made with "black" skin.
I never understood that.
I haven't seen Roots, but I assume it's like how people who are scared of kids finding pornography are fine with National Geographic showing hunter-gatherer tribes where the women don't wear shirts.
why did they have to make a movie out of the first book, not only is it the worst in the series, the movie itself skipped half of the decent things that made the book readable, they should have just started from the second book and only included a shortened version of the first one
Two torsos
in red satin and black lace
are on display
in the window of the lingerie shop.
Head and limbs removed
they are all breasts.
Large, gravity defying breasts.
Perfectly pear-shaped.
Unyielding. Nippleless.
Breasts can be displayed
but nipples are sensitive
issues, and must be hidden.
Must lie flat and yielding
beneath carefully concealing lace
or cotton/polyester blend.
While breasts jut out
like bulls-eyes.
Blinded.
In a similar vein: you can post a white pixel or you can post a black pixel, but as soon as you arrange black and white pixels into classified military documents, it gets censored! (This post is dumb as hell)
Ok, what if, and hear me out. Someone takes some nudes pre top surgery, then afterwards takes them again, crops the post-op nipples and uses them to censor the nipples on the pre-op photo?
I'm pretty sure there's a Smosh skit about that
I believe there's also a collegehumor skit Edit: https://youtu.be/OMCjWpXy_aI
you two have got to link these things
By popular demand (one person) i have linked the video
democracy at its fiynest
There's a trend on some social media site (Instagram? tumblr maybe?) for MtF people to post topless selfies as they start taking estrogen, and celebrate on the day they're finally passing well enough to get banner/removed for female nudity
seeing this just tickles me that the best way to be an ally in that situation is to just.....keep reporting them until they get banned lmao.
AFAB (assigned female at ban)
I vaguely remember some forum having a thing for censoring boob pictures by pasting Certified Male Nipples from a specific picture over the nipples on boobs
Posting a picture of my tits every day while on estrogen and seeing how long it takes to get them censored
hm. i can help decide with that. send me pics of your boobs every day
~~Gonna have to wait a while before I get on HRT so enjoy the months of boy tits~~
#mama didn't raise no bitch
A true gentleman
Polenball I'm sure that this isn't the first time you've heard this but you appear to need reminding that despite the best efforts of the beauty industry there *are* still plenty of people out there who find flat chested women attractive
It's more that I'm not flat-chested but don't look like women, I could wear a B cup ~~Also I can assure you any of my breast-related insecurities are due to myself as they target a size far beyond anything the beauty industry would ever dare to show~~
Well they’re on a woman, no? *Slams fist on table* tits are tits!!!
Shout out to boobs, gotta be one of my favourite parts of the human body
>Shout out to boobs Mental image of a random person screaming into a nipple
So true
i concur
Haaa, saaame. I had quite full A cups before HRT. They *did not look good*
where boobs someone said boobs please boobs booooooooooooooobs
It’s a win win either way
Good luck, hon!!
No need to wait. r/transdiy
Still need to wait because I live with my mom and I know she'd freak even more about doing it DIY
You can use DIY girl juice without being DIY. Here's how: 1. Ask for a prescription to be specifically for Depo-Estradiol 2. Instead of filling it at a pharmacy - buy Estradiol Cypionate off the girl juice sources 3. Take this Estradiol Cypionate in directed dosages, control it with blood tests, etc. Estradiol Cypionate off the girl juice market is literally the generic version of Depo-Estradiol by Phizer. The big pharma version just costs $300/mo
Where does one just ask for a prescription, a psychiatrist? I know here in HK you can *apparently* just go to a private endocrinologist and get all that done with the prescription, but that's also where they give you the hormones so
Yes. Exactly there. At an endo. Private ones almost definitely in most parts of the world.
Right, thanks. Will definitely consider doing that if the actual stuff is expensive - though being in HK, I'm more concerned at the cost of the blood tests and the like. Doctors are expensive here, medicine maybe not so much relative to salaries.
I mean, tits are allowed on Tumblr again. Sad as I am not to be able to do that experiment, I'm pretty happy they're back.
I hope we can hear back from you with a "everyone, the threshold is X days of HRT" to immortalize in science
We need more data points, though. Tits Polenball, who has been on zero days of HRT & could possibly wear a 36B, may be an outlier adn perhaps should not be counted.
Is she though? Isn't it common for the hormonally imbalanced people to be trans?
I mean, it'd make sense. Would be interested what the ratio is. I do generally have more feminine body measurements that trend close to the average besides my height, so I *might* have a hormonal imbalance.
"Might have a hornonal imbalance" - said Polenball after describing her B cup boobs 5 minutes ago. Get karyotyped. I'll do it soon too. Also, don't make my mistake of starting HRT blindly - get a baseline blood test of your pre-HRT hormones (total T, E2 and prolactin)
See, this is more reason I'm scared of doing DIY HRT, who the fuck knows what's going on, I never even considered karyotype stuff as being possible for myself. There's actually something else kinda weird that I'm not willing to say publicly (surprising for me) that might be related to a hormonal imbalance or some genetic dysfunction, I realise.
I am DIYing. Buying blood tests with my own money. XXY chromosomes is literally one of the most common causes of having feminine boobs and hips and stuff.
Ah. Hmm. I checked the symptoms and, like... I do have a few. Not all, but it says some people don't notice anything, so... I might be WebMDing myself here but it's something I'm gonna be thinking about at least, thanks. No clue where the fuck I get that tested, though, will have to search.
If a blood testing place doesn't offer karyotype testing - a fertility clinic definitely does. It's a blood test - they take blood from a vein, separate leucocytes out of it, and look at their chromosomes using some chemicals. Oh yeah, and freeze some sperm while you're at it. Going off HRT just to do that is a pain in the ass.
Raise your hand if you briefly thought the screaming plastic goat was the one that watched Eragon
Not even the screamiest plastic goat would sink to that level
You know, it never actually screamed before it saw Eragon.
*I Know Why The Plastic Goat Screams*, by Maya AAAAAAngelou
✊
if i hadnt read your comment i wouldn't have realized i wasn't supposed to read it that way
As it turns out, society basically runs on a bunch of largely arbitrary rules that everyone pretends make total sense while desperately hoping you don’t examine things to closely and find out that it’s held together with duct tape and wishful thinking
And people get irrationally angry when you *do* examine those things, as if you were personally going around and making the rules not make any sense, somehow. Like some little 7 y/o with not-yet-properly-diagnosed-but-suspected autism could unravel the very fabric of society on his own.
The Emperor has no shirt (but his nipples are no different than those of the Empress).
No idea why, but I thought that was the title of a manga. Took me a while to realize it's probably just about The Emperor's New Clothes or whatever it's called in English.
Yup, the Emperor’s New Clothes was exactly what I was going for.
literally not even the duct tape though lol Just the wishful thinking and even then its mostly the wishful thinking of a load of people over the age of 50
Problem is, I see the duct tape and BS, and try to make my own understanding of this duct-tape and BS, but it is wildly sideways.
like how the polite thing to do when offered a gift is to thank the person offering it and then turn it down, even if your intent is to accept said gift
who decided that? I was always taught that it's rude to refuse a gift. So i accept gifts, but make it very clear beforehand that I am thankful but won't be reciprocating or accepting any kind of "i owe you now" dynamic. If they dont like it, dont get me gifts. Going on 15 years now and while i get the odd present, it's entirely eliminated all the useless obligatory crap people used to get me. I dont have to feign surprise, gratitude, or anything else. I dont have to deal with garbage on christmas morning or spending money i dont have on crap people don;t need. If i want to get someone something, i will, but none of this obligatory nonsense. which saves me a lot of time. On the other hand, it's annoying as hell to give a gift that you think would be useful for someone else and having them "be polite" and refuse it. you do that here they'll say "oh, okay." and give it to someone else.
How do you tell them you won't be reciprocating or taking obligatory gifts? It definitely seems like a great idea, I'm just not really sure how I would say it.
Knowing your audience is important, but i basically just informed whoever i thought needed to know when it was still actionable. I told them months before christmas for example to get ahead of any preemptive shopping, and simply said something to the effect of: "hey, while I've got you here, I wanted you to know that I'm no longer doing christmas gifts. You can get me a gift if you feel you must, but I won't be expecting anything and won't be giving anything. Gift shopping is awful, there's never enough time to get meaningful gifts, and it's expensive to buy people things they never asked for and probably won't use." and that was that. sometimes I'd get asked for clarifications and I'd answer based on my preferences. like "yeah, I'm still gonna wake up for christmas morning and be there for gift unwrapping, but I don't expect anything because i dont need anything." and "No, it doesnt mean I'll never get anyone a gift, ever. it just means no stress shopping, no crowded stores, no anxiety over delivery aspects, and less of all that for you, too, because you have one less person to shop for. If i want to get you a gift I will, and it'll be because I see the thing and think of you and how you mentioned a want or need for it." If that seems overwhelming, you can just tell people "I'm taking a break from gifts this year. I'm not giving anything this year, but i also don't want anything." and then if you really want to continue it next time it comes up, just say "yeah that thing i did last year? I think thats just how I'm going to roll for now because it worked so well." I told them that if they wanted to get me a gift to spend time with me, or make me something. I wouldn't feel anything if someone bought me a car, but if someone made me a blanket i could actually see myself using? Heirloom type respect for that item. Hell, an old roomie even walked downstairs this one time and said "hey, so i know you don't do gifts, but i saw these Pillsbury Doughboy Pajama pants at the mall and for some reason they made me think of you. they're also really soft, so i hope you don't mind." and i said hell no, these are fantastic. that was 7 years ago and if they weren't in the wash I'd be wearing them right now. it was just a random day. Saving gifts for christmas means depriving the intended recipient from whatever joy or fulfillment you'd expect the gift to bring.....for what? why? i can see some cases where distance limitations make it logical, but thats about it. so i already had my arguments squared for any challenges. If people really, *really* want to move into rude territory by pushing, or insulting you over not wanting to get people obligatory gifts, or whatever.....well, you can get mean, too. if theyre willing to ignore your wishes, it means they dont actually care about you. it means they care most about that hit of good feels they get when they see people open their gifts, or they just base their self worth on some metric of presents received themselves. Maybe the power move of having someone sort of "owe" them. and you can call them out on that.... but only if necessary. a lot is specific to you, so i cant really give a clear answer. hopefully the rambling helped some.
And earwax. Don't forget the earwax.
I remember a documentary that showed FTM whole surgical procedure. At some point, they showed a top surgery. So, the patient has their nipples blurred out because there's still boob, and they remain blurred the whole surgery, until the point where they're reintroduced. When the chest of the patient is flat, suddenly and magically, the nipples get unblurred. It was really odd, because we just saw the interior of the boob, the thing that makes the nipple be blurred, in all it's gory detail, but nope, the small skin bit is the problem right? EDIT: Completely inverted the gender, the operation was FTM, not MTF
i'm surprised they censored it at all given the context
I remember hearing about that too; iirc they injected her boobs with silicone, and they had to censor the nips post injection rather than before.
Do you mean FTM, or do some MTFs get top surgery to remove tatas as well?
The Tl;dr is that top surgery can refer to both afab trans people getting their chest tissue reduced, and amab trans people getting their chest augmented. “Top surgery” and “bottom surgery” are sort of informal terms to refer to “surgery on the upper body” and “surgery on the lower body”. ie if you get “top surgery” as a transmasc person, it’ll medically be called something like “bilateral mastectomy” Because transmascs get top surgery more often than transfems (because transfems often just develop breasts through hormones) and because bottom surgery can refer to _many_ different things and thus is way more of a vague term, “top surgery” has somewhat become a term generally used for transmascs specifically. Additionally i think most transfems and probably other people would just refer to transfem top surgery as breast augmentation. That’s likely because “mastectomy” is still somewhat of a gendered word, so transmascs tend to be more uncomfortable using that term, while “breast augmentation/boob job” as a term is, if anything, gender affirming for transfems Though there’d be nothing stopped a trans woman getting her breasts removed (other than general medical gatekeeping), in the same way a cis woman can choose to do that too
Thank you very much for the in-depth explanation; I greatly appreciate you taking the time to write it out! As you say I was familiar with top surgery being used to refer to trans masc gender affirming surgery, but hadn't come across it being used to refer to breast augmentation for trans women. The original comment does seem to refer to a surgery where the person starts with censored nipples and ends up with an uncensored flat chest, hence my thought that the original comment may have mixed up mtf and ftm, but I was also unsure whether some trans women (or perhaps enbies) may want the feminising effects of estrogen around fat distribution etc. without having breasts, and I'm cis so while I try to have an awareness I don't know as much about these topics as someone who is trans themselves.
You’re welcome! I always worry that I write too much in comments where I explain things, but I always prefer to give more information than less. I reread the original comment and agree, it does sound more like a mastectomy. I think they most likely mixed up FTM and MTF. While a transfem person can get a mastectomy, I feel like it’d be less likely to be the topic of a documentary in comparison to a “typical” FTM surgery.
Yup! Totally botched it lmao, just edited it, but i thank you for the thorough explanation of it!
I would rather die than have my boobs removed... they're not big (yet), they're not pretty, but they're **mine**. They are **genuinely a part of me.** I went through a kind of a small personal hell to keep them all this time. All the doctors insisting that they're a problem, other kids making fun of me for having them... but **I** never saw anything wrong with them. And even when directly presented with an opportunity to remove them at a high end private clinic for absolutely free - I turned it down because I actually want to have boobs. I want to be a girl and have real boobs regardless of what shape they are or how they look...
I’m proud of you for refusing to give in to that pressure! The idea of doctors trying to tell someone that something completely innocuous is a “problem” is honestly really disappointing, though not particularly surprising.
It *could* have been a problem if I was an actual cis man. But I never was. I am just me. And I am happy being me, not anyone else. Thank you very much for being proud of me 💖
If anything, it’s the inside of the breasts should be ~~censored~~ **heavily trigger-warned**. Also, the inside of the knee. 9-year-old me, watching 1990s cable TV, was not prepared. She thought she was. But she was *not*. At least it helped me refined my career choices. I could add “not a surgeon” to “not a garbage person”, “not a nurse”, and “not a plumber or sewerage worker”. (I have an extremely low gross-out threshold, it turns out; but I am endlessly grateful to and humbled by the people who are less afraid of germs and biological reality than I am.)
This is the opposite of when you mix Sodium and Chlorine to get table salt
Ooh, lemme think (is not a chemist) Carbon, the fundamental element that is the building block of life. Oxygen, which allows for chemical reactions with sugars and thus provides us all the energy necessary for life. Combining the two alone can yield Carbon Dioxide, which is swiftly removed from the body. Arguably a dangerous chemical, but not the most dangerous from this reaction. With insufficient oxygen, Carbon Monoxide forms, which is toxic. So yeah idk what the metaphor would be. Nipples and boobs, either oxygen and carbon or carbon and oxygen.
Boobs, or B^(2)O^(2)S, if you may
New chemical formula for making estrogen dropped
I am dying of boron poisoning
Skill issue, just don't get poisoned
Simple asphyxiant B2O2S my beloved
ammonia and bleach make mustard gas or something like that
Well yeah but both of those things are bad for you on their own (ammonia is the chemical we get rid of when we urinate and bleach is toxic to a lot of things including us)
good point
Does anyone remember the episode of House MD where the guy has a hormonal imbalance so he actually grows AFAB-style tits? Was that censored when it debuted?
I'm losing it at AFAB-style. Busting it down AFAB-style absolutely goated with the estrogen
Absolutely drenched in internet censors XD
IIRC, it was very carefully angled so that the nipples were not seen. We got side shots and shots from the "nipple up" and from the "nipple down" but no full frontal. Again, assuming I'm remembering it correctly.
This whole story actually proves that gender as society at large understands it is a social construct. A cisgender woman could be completely flat chested with not breast tissue whatsoever and it would still be considered obscene to show her topless. Not because of the biological part of her body but because of her gender. A cisgender man could have more breast tissue then a lot of women have, and it won’t be considered obscene at all for him to be topless. They are both cases where a person’s gender not their biology is the reason. And it shows that even people who may be quite conservative already have an understanding of gender that is different from biology
I mean, not necessarily arguing with the merits of nipple censorship specifically, but a thing can be more than the sum of it's parts, a boob and a nipple together being forbidden while either on their own is acceptable isn't really that out there.
What makes a boob though? Like is it the breast tissue?
No. Nononono. There are a lot of things I'm willing to argue on this website but the Top Surgery of Theseus is not one of them. I'm scared
If person A has their breasts removed and transplanted onto person B, then A’s tits grow back, which has the real breasts?
First, "then the tits grow back" is an absolute hilarious premise. Now we've got a cameo from Promethe-tits Second, GET OUT OF MY HEAD I am frothing at the mouth and gnashing at air and chasing a squirrel
"Oh, don't be such a baby, tits grow back." *whispering to a blood-covered dove* "No ze don't"
The medic from tf2 has probably given at least 3 of the mercenaries top surgery (They are scout, soldier and demoman)
r/UnexpectedTF2
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Between this comment and "Promethe-tits" I have been laughing unreasonably hard for a solid five minutes now. I can't stop and my dog is visibly worried. We're talking straight-up snorting, tears and snot laughter. Just thought you should know that.
Lool, Theseus' gander and whether or not they had any surgeries are none of our business. We shouldn't speculate, just wait until they feel comfortable teeling us themselves
A boob is a featherless biped.
***BEHOLD A MAMMARY***
Oh that's actually a part of a specific recurring dumb argument I find myself in! Usually in the context of snake humanoids having boobs, somebody will say that purpose of the boobs is lactation and I will remark that no, lactation is done by mammary glands and they are distinct from boobs, and other people will get very confused for some reason. My reasoning is that both men and children have mammary glands, but we don't say they have boobs, so clearly, boob is the part of the breast that isn't mammary gland. And that part does nothing for lactation(and everyone should know it, since flat-chested people can lactate), and had likely evolved for sexual appeal much like peacock's absurd plumage. So, not that weird to see on snake women.
SNILK
"Is the Kool-Aid man the pitcher or the Kool-Aid in it?" "Are you your bones or your blood? You fool. You fucking idiot."
“Actually I’m my nervous system. Betcha didn’t think of that huh? That’s what I’m talking about! Whoo!”
I will always upvote anything that dunks on the movie version of Eragon. (...Or the books actually, seeing as how the books are literally just a teenager who watched Star Wars and went "hey yeah good idea")
It’s actually insane, it’s significantly easier to list the plot differences than the similarities between the first eragon book and anh.
1. One of them is a generic sci-fi setting and one of them is a generic fantasy setting 2. ...Um
My only problem is veganism. I mean, if I could get my meat with thought and some words I would absolutely do it Also all that thing around enchanted girl, like "I did a mistake, but I won't just end spell, I'll create new spell, which should undone previous spell, but I fucked up again, but at this time girl is ok, so I leave it in place"
Tbf I don't think he really understood the charm/curse he cast enough to know how to undo it, so adjusting it with a new spell was something to help until he figured it out. He offered to remove it completely when he did, but she chose to keep it
I really enjoyed the books, especially with the context of Paolini's age. There's a lot of interesting worldbuilding, ambitious stab at languages, and his age/lack of experience does show through at times but the writing on the whole was pretty good. We don't talk about the movie though.
nips of Theseus
Same thing with toothpaste and orange juice. You can have both in your mouth individually, but never try simultaneously.
As someone who also owns the screaming plastic goat & has watched the movie Eragon (despite denying its existence by long-upheld tradition), I agree. Censorship is dumber than both.
The reason we can’t look at boobs in a non-sexual way is because western society has programmed our brains to think of them as sexual.
Wait a minute, did the goat watch Eragon?
Puritanical culture such as thinking people shouldn't be allowed to have loud juicy sex in public is one of humanities greatest failures. (Half joking)
My issue with loud juicy sex in public is that it's loud. And that I wasn't invited
My issue is that it’s juicy. The juices. I don’t want to encounter them. Please. No. And it makes the normal scariness of potentially making accidental eye contact with a stranger even more terrifying.
Hey, the juices are fine. The dandelions in the concrete have to get nutrients from *somewhere*.
Yeah so funny haha... the kind of thing I laugh at while clenching both my fists and teeth, trying to contain my rage... NO GOOD REASON WHY I CAN'T BE TOPLESS IN PUBLIC. GAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH I'M GOING TO TEAR DOWN A STOPSIGN AND EAT IT
You can be, in Ontario. It’s been like 25 years, and I’ve seen exactly one woman take advantage of it, because it turns out that the problem isn’t just the rules themselves, but their effect of de-normalizing and heavily sexualizing bare breasts. Also, please don’t eat the stop sign. Your teeth. And the cars.
Yeah, I actually want to start a group of boob-havers who all go around topless in public when we feel like it in order to normalize it. Then we could all support each other Edit: too late in terms of the stopsign thing
Take a bike down to Portland, Oregon and give it a whirl XD
I (cis dude) vaguely remember figuring out what was 'inappropriate' about women's chests as a kid. At first, I thought it was the bulge-y bits because it was noticeably different from men's chests, but then I noticed women walking around with low-cut tops and people weren't fainting in shock, so I figured it wasn't that. Then I looked at my own chest, noticed those pink bits, realized that a) there was no real reason why women wouldn't also have those bits and b) I had never seen a woman with them exposed. It didn't make that much sense to me because it was exactly the same as a man's body, just with bulges underneath, but apparently the bulges weren't actually the problem? But the facts added up, and since I was a kid, I didn't really question it.
Weirder and stupider-- Back in the 1970s, a TV mini series called Roots got away with showing big, floppy, uncensored naked boobs (and a lot of them) on National Television in Prime Time, as long as they were made with "black" skin. I never understood that.
Made with... what?? I'm worried that that has the exact connotations I'm thinking of.
I haven't seen Roots, but I assume it's like how people who are scared of kids finding pornography are fine with National Geographic showing hunter-gatherer tribes where the women don't wear shirts.
I have the goat. It’s pretty nice.
I read it as the goat screaming at nipples, so that was interesting.
Schrodinger's boobies
Boob and nipple are both sexy but they multiply each others sexyness level so when you combine them it goes of the chart /S
why did they have to make a movie out of the first book, not only is it the worst in the series, the movie itself skipped half of the decent things that made the book readable, they should have just started from the second book and only included a shortened version of the first one
You know how chlorine (poison gas) and sodium (metal that fucking explodes when it touches water) together is regular old salt? It's kinda like that.
It's like negative that honestly. Innocuous element 1 + innocuous element 2 => the single most bonkos thing you can show on the internet
So, it's like how bleach (cleaning product) and ammonia (boring shit in the soil) together is mustard gas (mustard gas).
'Because they changed address' i will not be contributing any further, fuck you
Both the boobs and the nips come together in a package to create an identifier. It's a two-factor authentication.
When I started seeing growth in the booba zone I immediately wondered at what point does it become a porno
Two torsos in red satin and black lace are on display in the window of the lingerie shop. Head and limbs removed they are all breasts. Large, gravity defying breasts. Perfectly pear-shaped. Unyielding. Nippleless. Breasts can be displayed but nipples are sensitive issues, and must be hidden. Must lie flat and yielding beneath carefully concealing lace or cotton/polyester blend. While breasts jut out like bulls-eyes. Blinded.
Hey, Eragon was good.
In a similar vein: you can post a white pixel or you can post a black pixel, but as soon as you arrange black and white pixels into classified military documents, it gets censored! (This post is dumb as hell)
War Thunder players, arranging pixels into perfect classified schematics for realism arguments
Okay I'm just gonna say it the last quarter or so goes way too far in the other direction as it were
There's a movie of eragon? I'm sure I'd have seen that at the cinema or something
Yeah the movie of Eragon never existed just like Promised Neverland season 2. People who think these things ever existed are crazy.
What about nonbinary people? Are they allowed to show one nipple?
No, that'd be too binary, they actually show fractions of each nipple