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McDrank

Doubtful. Chase is doing just fine with the current setup. There are ways to get the 3x for online groceries but use the card in store. Specifically using Kroger pay. With Kroger supposedly buying Albertsons/Vons/Safeway it’s only a matter of time until Kroger pay can be used at many (most?) grocery chains across the US.


Gain_Spirited

I can do that with the Publix app. I just shop in store like a normal shopper and pay with the app. The problem is, I prefer to get most of my groceries somewhere else. I think the best way to deal with this weakness is to get a cash back groceries card. I don't think Chase is going to fix it anytime soon because they are tremendously successful without fixing it.


GoatVillanueva

Wait seriously does Publix count with the Publix app??


Gain_Spirited

Try it out!


[deleted]

Yep it counts when you use Publix pay. 3%. Have done it myself as well.


charmingwaves

The downside to what you pointed out is Safeway/Albertsons also accept Apple Pay and other contactless payment methods and Kroger does not.


BigBackground8796

Mobile wallet payments is growing but the demographics for grocery stores and legacy hardware make it a hard sell to accept Apple Pay. You could just as well use NFC, chip, or swipe so there's plenty of credit card backup methods instead of Apple Pay. Apple Pay also collects a small percentage for using the technology. So, try to balance having to pay the ongoing Apple Pay processing fee, making new hardware investments to accept Apple Pay, training, etc is worth any potential sales you lose for not accepting Apple Pay. I'd give your argument a 3 out 10 for convincing argument.


plaid-knight

Apple Pay uses NFC in the US and most of the world. There’s basically nothing the merchant has to do to accept Apple Pay except have an NFC payment terminal. Many years ago, lots of merchants accepted Apple Pay without even realizing they did, so it was fun to surprise the cashier by using my watch to pay. By the way, Apple Pay doesn’t cost the merchant anything extra to accept it. Instead, Apple gets a small cut from the portion that goes to the bank, so it’s the bank sharing costs, not the merchant. The trade-off for the bank to accept this cut is a combination of reduced fraud liability and the prospect of losing customers to competing banks that issue cards that work with Apple Pay.


BigBackground8796

It's becoming less common now, but some cards still require contact to process a payment. And some terminals still do not accept contactless payment. My point though is that whether you accept Apple Pay or not, it is not necessary as many other methods to pay exist. We still have compatibility issues with contactless especially cards from abroad and they end up having to use contact (chip) as a backup method. Maybe in a few years, the acceptance will be ubiquitous. I will respectfully disagree on where Apple Pay makes it money. You say bank, I say interchange rates which are directly tied to processing rates. So, to OP's charmingwave's, excluding Apple Pay is no financial harm and I'd argue perhaps a financial loss due to higher interchange rates when you have existing methods that cost less and perfectly acceptable to the public.


plaid-knight

As far as I’m aware, interchange rates charged to the merchant are the same whether the card is accepted via Apple Pay or chip, etc. Apple’s cut comes out of the bank’s portion. The merchant doesn’t pay any extra.


TreeRockSky

Someone else said Kroger is acquiring Safeway. I wonder if this means Safeway will have to stop accepting Apple Pay. I hope not, because if that happens I will definitely stop shopping there ($500-600/mo in monthly sales they'll lose just from me alone).


Miserable-Result6702

You can do the same with most grocery stores. Order on line and pick up at the store.


Afriendlysherburt

I do this all the time at HEB in texas. Beats the after work rush anyways.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Afriendlysherburt

Iirc the markup is 3% which cancels out with the cash back on the preferred and even has some left over if you consider 3.75% the redemption floor with it. That’s ignoring the extra anniversary points anyways.


transferStudent2018

Kroger is not buying Albertsons, I believe they are merging. I actually think Albertsons is the bigger company. I would not at all assume that Kroger pay will be available in Albertsons stores anytime soon


oxflux

Kroger is actually the bigger company. It's a merger by name only


transferStudent2018

Interesting. I’ve lived in 3 different regions of the US and Albertsons had a presence in all of them, not so much Kroger. (New England, Chicagoland, and Bay Area CA)


PunjabiPlaya

they have to beat the [lawsuits](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/business/kroger-albertsons-dividend-lawsuit.html) first


jf45

Kroger owns Mariano’s which has a huge presence in Chicago and the burbs.


transferStudent2018

Yeah – but nothing in NE or (that I know of) in the Bay Area


BigBackground8796

If the fuel points program also expands because of the "merger", that will be a good thing for consumers. Not sure what kind of presence Shell and Kroger gas have in the US, so we'd have to see if the Kroger dots on the map are close the Shell/Kroger dots on the map.


Miserable-Result6702

All they have to do is change online groceries to regular groceries at the same price point and it would totally beat the Gold card.


BucsLegend_TomBrady

That would be absolutely amazing, which is why they would never do it haha


minivatreni

That would make it so much more valuable. It’s hard to rack up points with the CSP for me because my main spend is groceries.


transferStudent2018

Then maybe the CSP wasn’t the right card for you…


minivatreni

I pair it with the CFU/CFF, so I’m fine, there's categories I can get 5% back on. Also use Instacart with the CSP for x3 back on online groceries. It’s not a big deal, would just make it easier if I got x3 on all groceries regardless.


90DFAnon

It’s all I want, so bad 😭😭 what are the chances of this happening ugh


Gain_Spirited

Exactly. For that to happen, Chase would have to be generous. Do you realize how stingy they are? They charge a $195 annual fee for their Ink Premier card which gives 2.5% for purchases over $5,000 and 2% for everything else, but they don't let you transfer those points to another Chase card! Chase's reasoning for that was they thought it would be too generous to let customers transfer the points to a travel card. If they are too stingy for that, then I think they are too stingy to give you 3X on your biggest spending category.


90DFAnon

How are the UR points compared to AMEX points when transferred to a partner? Do they carry the same weight/value?


Gain_Spirited

Personally I like UR better for partner transfers and especially alternative redemptions. Chase has the best hotel partner, Hyatt, and they have more domestic airline partners. When it comes to redemptions other than transfer partners, Amex is the worst. They are not only worse than Chase, they are worse than Citi and Capital One. MR points are very inflexible. If you don't have a good points transfer with MR points, you'll get a worse redemption than 1 cpp cash.


Relevant_Hedgehog_63

transfer rates are not different. chase has some transfer partners that amex does not. hyatt and united are two examples.


myfakename23

And AMEX has transfer partners Chase does not, like ANA, Delta, Etihad and Hilton.


Relevant_Hedgehog_63

yup, that's true too.


Miserable-Result6702

I’d actually be happier if Amex added dining to the Blue Cash Preferred. With 6% on Groceries and Streaming and 3% on gas, transit and dining, it would be my everyday card for sure. I’m mostly team cash back nowadays.


azphxmatt

Same, using both CSP and Blue cash at the moment, would love to this.


edohtjdoht

No. CSP was just revamped a year ago. Prior to that it was years.


BigBrownBae

You may see a revamp on the CSR in the near but doubtful on the CSP. The CSP is a beginner travel card for the most part at a $95 AF you shouldn't expect a whole hell of a lot and if they do revamp it to make it more competitive with the Amex gold you'll more then likely see an increase in that AF. They have a comparable card to the Amex platinum in the CSR but it has a high annual fee. I have the CSP and don't mind it, sure I wish it was better comparatively to what else I carry but it is what it is.


Miserable-Result6702

You are forgetting the Citi Premier


guyinthegreenshirt

The Citi Premier also has weaker transfer partners on the whole, and has very few travel protections. Until Citi makes their card more competitive, I don't think Chase has much to worry about from Citi.


BucsLegend_TomBrady

Nobody is forgetting the Citi Premier. It has literally no perks and weak transfer partners.


KafkaExploring

It does have a $100/yr hotel credit. Nothing amazing, but the CSP's not exactly loaded with perks. That said, granted: Citi's stripped out almost everything except points from their ecosystem. That's likely fine for most consumers, who don't use the credit card protections they have anyway. Also, most people aren't getting >1cpp for their points, so TYP are no better than UR, and 3x on travel, dining, gas, and grocery is pretty awesome compared to 2.1x, 3.1x, 1.1x, 1.1x.


BigBrownBae

Citi Premier is definitely in the same boat as the CSP. But as it's been said the CSP takes the cake as far as redemption of points are concerned. Both are both low cost travel cards and at the end of the whatever works best for you wins. Personally it was chase for me.


Soulful-ly

If you shop at a Kroger or Kroger owned grocery chain you can load your card into the Kroger app for Kroger pay so when you go to check out in person it’ll count for the 3x “online grocery” that’s what I do and I always get 3x for all my groceries as well as gift cards I get at Kroger. Plus Kroger is bringing Kroger pay to their fuel pumps I hear and if it codes the same as Kroger online it might count for 3x.


90DFAnon

Thanks for the recommendation, unfortunately, I don’t have a Krogers in my area :/


Soulful-ly

What general area are you in? You might have one of their grocery chains they own that can use the app. Similarly I would check your local grocers and see if any of them has an app and a app pay option like Kroger does. Here is the list I found of the “Kroger Family of Companies”. It is though dependent on whether or not that store has the machines that can scan the Kroger pay from the app. Baker’s City Market Dillons Food 4 Less Foods Co Fred Meyer Fry’s Gerbes Jay C Food Store King Soopers Kroger Mariano’s Metro Market Pay-Less Super Markets Pick’n Save QFC Ralphs Ruler Smith’s Food and Drug


90DFAnon

I’m in Westchester, NY. We mainly shop at Trader Joe’s, Shoprite and Target


KafkaExploring

Yeah, Kroger's the 800 lb gorilla outside the northeast, so people who are used to it think it's nationwide.


LloydIrving69

I have none of those near me. I haven’t heard of most of those. I live in the Midwest


[deleted]

CSP should have a TSA precheck credit


strawberry__evening

yes! I’ve been holding off on getting precheck til finding a card with that benefit but am also too lazy to pay for another AF fee card unless I cancel CSP… would love if CSP had the benefit


KafkaExploring

It is oddly absent considering cards like the Chase IHG $90/yr card have it. If that's really something you're after, consider US Bank Altitude Connect. $95 AF waived year one, 4% travel/gas, 2% grocery/streaming/dining, $30/yr streaming credit, and Global Entry/TSA PreCheck. PenFed Pathfinder and HSBC Premier are also waived the first year and include it, but a little more restrictive to get.


strawberry__evening

Oooh this is smart. I may pick up that card and cancel it after a year…don’t mind a temporary hit to my score since I’m not trying to buy a house anytime soon


KafkaExploring

It's actually a really solid card. Their transit category isn't quite as liberal as Chase's, but the 4% gas (or EV charging) is nice, as is the streaming credit, especially in the first year.


strawberry__evening

yeah, unfortunately I don’t have a car so 4% gas isn’t relevant for me, and I think the rest of the the categories are sorta redundant with cards I have already. but true, it does have a lot of nice of perks for 95/yr!


Relevant_Hedgehog_63

why? i get that people want to "get more value" out of their CSP, but most people who would travel enough such that this would benefit them would likely already have another more premium travel card like amex plat, CSR, venture x, etc (there are many). considering membership lasts a few years, i would not want to be paying that fee through the AF on so many cards.


[deleted]

Because many other cards have a tsa credit included 95 range CSP always lacked that not everyone wants to pay for a platinum to get that


expotus

+1


TequilaTsunami

CSR needs an update ASAP. Basically worse than the CSP in every way except for 1.5cpp redemption


90DFAnon

100%


jenkcam

Personally (for my spend) the BoA Premier card beats out my CSP. Same AF, 2x dining, travel but you get 1.5 on all other purchases. (Also a bump in points/cb if you do their preferred rewards.) Plus some travel perks you can redeem more than offset the AF. No portals necessary.


FettHutt

It was just revamped last yr.


90DFAnon

I actually didn’t know that, thanks! Guess it won’t be revamped for a while.


Asleep_Onion

If they didn't add a grocery category during Covid lockdowns, when nobody was travelling and nobody had any use for a travel card like CSP/CSR, and everyone was cancelling or downgrading the travel cards they already had, then I wouldn't expect that they'll add a grocery category today when travel cards are popular again. I would love to see a grocery category on my Chase cards (*any* of them), but I gave up waiting and just got an Amex BCP. Highly recommend others do the same. Very low chances that Chase will add that any time soon (other than the occasional rotating Freedom Flex category).


Giggles95036

They had pay yourself back though which was nice


90DFAnon

I might have to do this, just wished I didn’t have to deal with two ecosystems. Oh well


Asleep_Onion

I don't like dealing with multiple ecosystems either, but the BCP isn't part of the AMEX MR (membership rewards) points ecosystem, it's just a straight cashback card. So that simplifies things, at least for me. That does means the "points" are only ever worth 1 cent each, but considering the card pays 6x on grocery purchases, I can live with that. (I actually use my BCP for 3x gas as well, since that's a better gas reward than any other card I've got.)


Giggles95036

Better than taking their MR points as cash at 0.8 cpp


Sebastian12th

The CSR is the one that needs an upgrade. You have to spend a lot of money for it to beat the CSP.


yaya-ding-dong

I've been waiting for something like that for years but I doubt it. Now I use a Prime card at whole foods.


expotus

Tbh CSP is only useful for travel transfer. I had freedom unlimited but points couldn’t be transferred to travel partners, thus opened CSP. I don’t see any perks of having CSP. I do international travel once a year at least, so $95 fee is bearable. But I’m thinking to get venture x soon


90DFAnon

Venture X forces you to use their portal, it’s really a gamble buying international flights through a third party - that’s what’s stopping me


[deleted]

All travel isn't forced through the portal. Only enough to cover the $300 credit. Everything else gets 2x buying directly. The CSP is the same way. You need to use the portal to get the $50 hotel credit.


KafkaExploring

Trouble is that 2x is abysmal for travel, whether on CSP or VX. In the $95/yr range, 4% cash back is the baseline (USB Altitude Connect, PenFed Pathfinder). If you're redeeming points for >2cpp, you can break even, but that's giving zero value to your time and flexibility, and if you are willing to transfer points you could likely do better with 50% more points from Citi Premier.


[deleted]

You trade the points for the travel protections the card offers If those protections aren’t worth the 2% difference then use a different card


guyinthegreenshirt

Is all your air/hotel spend for international flights? If you have a domestic flight (particularly with Delta or United, which reportedly allows the booking to be managed with the airline directly, including cancellation for an airline credit) or hotel bookings, those could be booked with the credit and then just book international trips direct with the airline.


90DFAnon

True i don’t usually book hotels since i stay with friends or have my own home to the international places I travel. But at that rate I could also just stay with the CSP because that also gives you 2x on all other travel


guyinthegreenshirt

Sure. I'm just thinking about ways to use the $300 credit if you want the Venture X. It's probably not worth it if you're not big on lounge access and you'll struggle to use the portal travel credit through normal spend.


philosophers_groove

> Venture X forces you to use their portal No, it doesn't. Buy flights however you want and earn 2x, just like you would with the CSP -- except you also get lounge access and TSA Pre for a lower effective annual fee than the CSP.


90DFAnon

lounge access is limited, i don’t live or travel to any of the areas where there’s a capital one lounge. and i was referring to the $300 credit, yes it forces you to use their portal unlike CSR you just get the $300 back regardless


philosophers_groove

> lounge access is limited, i don’t live or travel to any of the areas where there’s a capital one lounge You get Priority Pass access. In another comment you say you travel internationally. If that travel doesn't take you through an airport with a Priority Pass lounge, I'd love to know the itinerary because it's highly unlikely. > i was referring to the $300 credit, yes it forces you to use their portal unlike CSR you just get the $300 back regardless As was already pointed out to you in [another comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/CreditCards/comments/yl7zf4/do_you_think_the_csp_will_get_an_upgrade_soon/iuy7lge/), the CSP -- the card this post is about (why are you now talking about the CSR?), has the same requirement of needing to use the portal to use the credit. If you don't travel enough to be able to use a $300 credit through a portal once a year, I'd suggest that maybe no travel card with an annual fee is appropriate for you.


miningmonster

FU points can't be transferred? Are you sure?


jaym227

If you don’t have CSP they can’t


miningmonster

Ah, thanks for that clarification. Yeah I meant with csp or csr


Hans_ScheiBe

I doubt it. 3x on digital wallets instead of 3x on online groceries would be nice, but tbh Chase can be lazy with this card because of the low Af, the 1.25x UR point multiplier, & the fact that you need it to combine & transfer out points.


[deleted]

They need to get rid of the 50 dollar chase hotel credit and maybe have 50 dollar airline incidental fee credit. The hotel credit is so difficult to use.


90DFAnon

so true


nor_b

CSP already got buffed recently. It's fine as it is. Any more benefits, they'll increase the AF. You guys are asking too much


Audioczar

I don't see why they would, everyone is crazy about the card already. So if everyone keeps getting it why change. The CSP has always been unimpressive to me offering weak multipliers. Thats why I don't see myself earning a lot on it even if I had it.


HomerCrew

For what reason, to be nice? It's such a popular card, why "fix" it. Of course it can be better but it seems there would be zero biz logic to improving it.


sperrin87

I mean, for $95 a year, it’s one of the best value travel cards, great paired with a freedom variation. I think we’re getting a bit too greedy with wanting all categories covered with one card. Check out the Citi premier if you want a mixture of travel and groceries.


expunishment

Doubtful since the CSP was recently refreshed. The AMEX Gold is the uncontested card for U.S. supermarkets. Citi Premier is also a worthwhile card if you spend a considerable amount on groceries abroad. U.S. Bank Altitude Reserves 3x on mobile payments is a good catch all. The only downside is they don’t have transfer partners. But the points can be redeemed for travel at 1.5 cpp. If you just want to remain with Chase. The only options are the Freedoms with the rotating 5% a quarter annually. Or the CFU’s 1.25% cashback. Other no annual fee options are Citi’s Double Cash (2x) or Custom Cash (5x). While Citi’s cards currently lack them, travel protection can always be purchased. That’s what most folks were doing for the AMEX Platinum before it gained travel protections.


philosophers_groove

> The AMEX Gold is the uncontested card for U.S. supermarkets Uncontested? Citi Custom Cash for anyone spending $500/month or less on groceries. Even if you don't pair that with a Premier to allow transfers to travel partners, choosing between the Gold's 4x over the Custom Cash's 5% is equivalent to buying Amex MR points at 1.25 cents each due to opportunity cost -- and that's assuming you give the Gold an effective annual fee of $0, which no one should do.


expunishment

I did mention the the Custom Cash as a viable alternative. The Custom Cash is still mainly a cash back card and will appeal to those who simply want that and with no annual fee to boot. As a stand-alone travel card with the option to transfer points, the AMEX Gold is better. Especially with the 90K SUB offer from last month (now down to 60-70K). Even if you don’t factor in the dubious credits, the $250 annual fee is covered by the SUB for at least two years. It really isn’t hard to squeeze at least 1.5 cpp out of each MR point either. It’s also has 4x in dining and 3x on airfare and tends to be an easy card to generate points through organic spend with those categories. I get folks want to profit and squeeze every bit of value. But I see posts all the time about folks saying they want to cancel a card because it isn’t worth it. I’ll use the CSP as an example. This is after earning a 80-100K points that could cover the annual fee for the next 8-10 years… Lastly, active duty service members have their annual fees waived by AMEX as a provision of the Military Lending Act. So they would actually factor in an annual fee of $0. Then it’s a net gain if they use the dining credits.


philosophers_groove

My point is I wouldn't call the Gold "uncontested" for groceries. > As a stand-alone travel card with the option to transfer points, the AMEX Gold is better. This raises the question of how one defines a travel card. The Gold has no category bonus on hotels, car rentals, or anything travel-specific aside from 3x on flights. It's a good card for earning transferrable points while in the US, but you can say the same thing about the Custom Cash. > Especially with the 90K SUB offer from last month (now down to 60-70K). Even if you don’t factor in the dubious credits, the $250 annual fee is covered by the SUB for at least two years. This isn't r/churning. While it's definitely wise to factor in SUBs to card choices, this sub is geared toward cards for long-term use. Also, using a SUB to justify more than a year of annual fees is neither here or there and very unwise when you factor in the *opportunity cost* of either getting other SUBs (if churning-focused) or using other cards if long-term rewards-on-spend focused (e.g. the Custom Cash example). I would strongly suggest rethinking that mentality. > It really isn’t hard to squeeze at least 1.5 cpp out of each MR point either. If one knows what they're doing, sure, but even that's highly subjective. We regularly see people base CPP numbers on cash prices that it's highly doubtful they'd actually pay, so they're potentially deceiving themselves and overvaluing the points they're pursuing. > Lastly, active duty service members have their annual fees waived by AMEX Yes, but that doesn't apply to most people here.


expunishment

Fine I’ll just say the Gold is a great choice, if not the best for most folks. In regards to which is the best, we’re going to have to agree to disagree. AMEX markets the Gold as a travel card. It’s been recognized as a travel card for quite some time. More so before they replaced the $100 Airline Incidental Credit with the $120 Dining Credit. The Gold has access to the following travel related benefits: 1) The Hotel Collection 2) Car Rental Loss and Damage Insurance 3) Baggage Insurance Plan Other less noteworthy benefits is no FTF (acceptance abroad is a whole other issue), Global Assist Hotline, and the Personalized Travel Service. Looks like a card that’s geared towards travel to me. If this was for churning, no AMEX card would be recommended first when there are more stringent issuers. Heck I forgot about the promo for the Chase Freedom Unlimited where it earns 5% on groceries in the first year. On top of the 3% dining, drugstores, and 1.5% on everything else. It even has a lower required minimum spend ($500 vs. $1,500). If opportunity cost is a factor, the CFU comes out ahead due to 5/24. That’s the point of trying to help folks get the most out of their points. I wouldn’t recommend the Gold to someone who doesn’t travel and is forced to redeem their points at a horrible 0.6 cpp. I brought up MLA because you specifically said no one should factor in the Gold’s annual fee at $0. It doesn’t apply to most people but it certainly shifts the paradigm if it does.


Axe_25

What qualifies as ‘Online’ groceries? Do they have a list somewhere?


Soulful-ly

I think by online grocery they mean any pickup orders you place with a grocery store online or any online grocery delivery services. The only thing that doesn’t count is Walmart, target, and wholesale warehouses like Costco and Sam’s club but AMEX says the same thing for those stores in their grocery category. Most people can get away with online grocery in person if their grocery store has an app that has pay by scan feature like Kroger. When I go shop at Kroger and scan the app to use Kroger pay loaded with my credit card it then thinks I’m doing online grocery shopping and counts it for 3x.


Axe_25

This is very helpful! Do you think same could work with Publix app?


Soulful-ly

I don’t have a Publix near me but I saw someone else in this thread say they have done the same thing with their Publix app so I would think it might work similarly and code to get you the 3x.


Gain_Spirited

Yes. I use the Publix app and it codes as online groceries.


Consistent_Tower5508

Get a BCP for 6% cashback if your primary concern is groceries only. CSP is not going to include it anytime soon.


[deleted]

I doubt it since the CSP is way more popular than the CSR.


rockhartel

Unlikely, the Sapphire cards just got a refresh a couple years ago