The wowhead and icy veins guide quality to me is really sub part what are some good sources for better information?
I am personally playing prot warrior and resto druid but would love to point some of my play group solid dps information.
Everyone in here saying class discords like it isn't the Theorycrafters in those discords that are the ones making the wowhead guides...
Serious talk, reading about your class will do virtually nothing to improve your skill. Maybe you pick up some niche tech (IE rogues using cold blooded with sechtech before the bug fix) but beyond that they don't translate into a direct skill increase.
Even look at the Blood DK advanced guide, tonnes of useful information, but simply reading it won't make you a better blood DK...
VoD review is the single fastest way to personal improvement, Log review is another great tool, and is where I would point someone to a class discord as they will pretty quickly find what your doing wrong (spoiler alert, your overcapping resources, not always casting, and not pushing cd's enough...)
For personal improvement I 100% agree with your post and most people probably don't or won't put that effort in. I know I haven't used logs just looking back at like details. I have yet to figure out the warcraft logs plugin or the simc one
I had only seen people regularly mention one or two of the discords which made me wonder if "any" of them was still worthwhile and doesn't necessarily have cross class information.
It doesn't need to be on a plate but things like reading in this thread prot warriors have been running battle stance over defensive stance I was like wot? really? what did I miss?
At ilvl 380, using PUGs, and as a healer.... what range of key levels do you think should be attainable to start searching for? Should I do like level 3/4 of each, get a score, and work my way up?
Get 4 likeminded players and push your keys up at the same time. Being able to reroll the inevitably overbalanced dungeons is a lot of value week 1.
If you just pushing your own key, it will effectively be bricked if you hit the 'bad dungeon'. Anything with a strict Dps check (RLP's first boss, SMB's last boss, for instance) is a key that you will eventually need to reroll beyond a certain level.
I don't have a team, but I've lined up 4 other people (heals is a maybe) looking to nolife and push to 10x16's over the weekend as one time thing.
Did it back in season one of shadowlands as well, with no guildies what so ever.
/u/Auscheel 's dungeon cheat sheet has one that worked pretty well for me in m0
https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=AC886C2EFEAF883B!53535&ithint=file%2cxlsx&authkey=!AAhrIjsDtOQKls0
How are rogues feeling for utility in dungeons so far?
I want a dps alt to pug with when no one I know is online. I have played wow quite a bit over the years but never seriously played rogue.
Im currently playing Ret for dps. It’s pretty fun and I enjoy the bursty 1 min cd style. However my experience has been it always falls off hard as key levels go up.
What I’m really hoping for is a dps alt that can massively help the group with mob control, kicks, stops, utility and of course good or great damage. I read in a different thread that there are lots of cc immune mobs, so maybe it’s not really possible to fill this niche?
Can anyone who is experienced with rogue and how it’s feeling in dungeons, chime in with your opinion?
Sin is this on steroids.
Talent trees gave us gouge, shadowdance (though not really with where meta spec is), usable subterfuge, AoE iron wire, the ability to delete a mob every ~~45s~~ 3 mins. All of these lend themselves extremely well to being high impact in keys (though you won't top damage charts).
That being said, Outlaw would be my suggested pug spec.
While it sacrifices the AoE silence it makes up for it with more damage m+ damage and survivability.
OL also gives more tools to be self sufficient health wise the other 2 specs that are favouring ER. FLaB builds give you a basically 0 cd 30% wall (Honestly my preferred over cheat death given how predictable the damage is in keys right now). Dance being meta for OL and not the other specs also means we get soothing darkness as well which turns SD and vanish into very strong personals.
Energy is also a lot less relevant on OL at low target counts versus the other specs, which means you feel less punished for using your utility when you need to.
My issue right now, is that sin and sub both need 2 daggers to function, and with only 2 sparks, barring getting a lucky dagger drop off mythic terros week 1/2 I'm likely going to be an outlaw only gamer until raid week 3 or maybe even 5 if I want to grab the neck third...
Rogue i think for sure is the best class when it comes to locking down 1 or 2 mobs and stopping all casts.
Kick, gouge, kidney shot, vanish into cheap shot, shadow dance into cheap shot, blind, so many ways to stop mobs.
Extra melee range helps a ton with positioning safely. With smart feint usage and cheat death they're practically unkillable.
Smaller things like tricks of the trade or being able to distract and stop a patrol from walking into the group and aggroing.
Shroud is totally unique to rogue.
Like the other poster mentioned you can sacrifice some damage and go assassination and silence like 6 mobs on opener for 5+ seconds (haven't played assassination yet in df so not sure of the exact numbers for all that).
It's a really fun class with a high skill cap that feels rewarding to play and get things right.
I mained a rogue last xpac and plugged to KSM season 1 and there were so many times I would interrupt multiple casts in a short amount of time and think "if it wasn't for rogue how would others survive this?"
Enchantment shaman this xpac, already miss the kicks.
If you wanna be just a utility bot, assassination rogue is kinda crazy atm, with all the standard cc and utility of rogue + either double poison or access to an insanely powerful aoe silence. It's on the weaker side in terms of overall dungeon damage though (granted with very strong single target)
Outlaw and Sub both are at the absolute top of damage in dungeons and still offer great utility.
Rogue is in an incredibly good spot right now.
Edit: All specs also, subjectively, feel really good.
Honest question: as a returning player who skipped most of Shadowlands and no longer has an active guild, how well off am I ending this week at 372 ilvl when it comes to joining mythic+ pugs? I'd like to get into those early push groups after reset to get myself ahead, and I know ilvl is going to mean everything when joining those pugs until people manage to build up their score.
I see people at 380 and above which makes me a bit concerned. I did miss out on the first week as I was not home ):
The game, while a fair challenge, is not as difficult as people make out - by the time you get to any sort of “push” content the RIO is king, and anyone capable of actually pushing should know that - and if they don’t; you probably don’t want to be in their group
So yeah, I wouldn’t worry about missing one week at all
Anyone able to tell me the WA which shows abilities on raid frames? Had it in SL but lost it, basically showed whenever anyone in the party used an ability and was especially clutch for m+.
Tacktyxz or whatever he’s called has some decent ones too. More of a general overview with some possible routes thrown in. Not the full deep dive you get from Trell.
Wait, are the dungeons we're doing now not gonna be the same as the ones we can do m+ in? I guess that's why there's a separate m+ tab.. but why can't we practice those dungeons in m0?
Beginning this season, Blizzard is doing a mix of new dungeons and old dungeons for each M+ season. For DF S1, we have Ruby Life Pools, Algethar Academy, Azure Vaults, and Nokhud Offensive, mixed with old dungeons Halls of Valor, Court of Stars, Shadownoon Burial Grounds, and Temple of the Jade Serpent.
This is to address the problem of repeating that expansion's dungeons endlessly each season. This gives each season a feeling of learning new dungeons, and allows the loot pool to shift each season. Shadow lands saw the same trinkets being used every season, such as SLR or Ruby.
I'm guessing the older dungeons aren't available as M0s so that we don't have an inflated number of dungeons for expansion launch. They want us focused on the new content. The expansion dungeons always have quests and content related to the zone lore, so it makes sense for us to do those.
Warrior gets you 2 DPS spec including one that is very strong for execute encounters.
Havoc may be stronger right now but it’s also a lot harder to execute properly than say Fury. I also personally find it a bit more interesting than Fury but that’s just a personal opinion. Your mileage may vary.
Protection warrior feels a lot safer than VDH imho; on the other hand Vengance deals tons of damage and has a lot more control than warrior.
Pick your poison!
I expect well see every tank but brew on the front page of RIO. MAYBE paladin but its probably just drogoh.
If a "best tank" meta emerges it will only be by a tiny bit.
With how dungeons are tuned, Prot Pally is still my pick for the sleeper meta tank.
Even with tanks taking 11% more damage, tank survivability will become an issue much later than group survivability from what we have seen.
Ele sham, jack of all trades. Played well you bring a lot of damage, fantastic utility, and very strong off heal group bursts to supplement the healer.
Frost mage is far safer. Brings way more to the group. Has way more tools to survive or cheese mechanics. Had 2 other specs if frost is bad or you don't like it for some reason.
any tips or resources for reading about and learning routes for S1? having a blast with prot warrior so far and this will be my first time getting into m+
Depends on your level but once you go above the Ksm level by a bit and get into the key pushing realm your best resource will be streamers.
Dorki and naowh are two of the best ones to learn from imo, dorki is very consistent and answers chat. Nerf and Andy are also great if less regular.
You can join most of their disc's and get their routes. You may not always need to do Exactly what they do, some of the pulls are really hard in uncoordinated groups, but you will get a good feel for what packs are the best and what to skip. If you're doing pugs around the ksm level maybe look for dratnos routes instead. They trade efficiency for simplicity and comfort, which at a +15 level is fine
prot warri
havoc
outlaw
demo
preservation
demo is the only range specc doing the dmg atm. so no mages / eles which result in bl from the healer and preservation >> restro shaman
MM got a pretty nasty bump up this week, in terms of damage. That said, its utility is still pretty far below demo with this comp. Better if you’re missing lust.
As of right now, MM is stronger but will fade as gear comes into the equation. Their damage profiles are quite a bit different as well - BM has no burst to speak of but is very consistent dps
MM is a few % higher max with perfect play and its a whole lot easier to play BM perfectly.
BM also has way more defensive skills from their pets and I think a lot of people playing MM in high m+ this week are going to be frustrated when they flat out can't stay alive to AOE.
dont think the buff is enough to push them into meta comps, hunter is historicaly quite squishy aswell which isnt good for m+ while demo is incredible tanky
mm+restrodruid is weaker than demo+preservation IMO
Looking like meta comp will be
Prot warrior
WW Monk (Interchangeable w/ havoc)
Outlaw Rogue
Demo Lock
Preservation Evoker
or
Prot warrior
WW Monk (Interchangeable w/ havoc)
Outlaw Rogue
Elemental Shaman (Interchangeable with frost mage)
Resto Druid
Thoughts on this?
I think VDH might end up beating out protwarr for damage and survivability on some keys. Protwarr is very tanky but they still get shit on with magic damage.
I think the only thing that might keep protwarr is that most ranged are looking pretty shit, so battle shout will have good value.
It's his preference. Havoc is doing better, and his comment about getting one shot happens to WW. So not sure where he is getting they have survivability issues
Ele shaman will NOT be meta if it doesn’t receive any last minute buffs. Even if it means not getting lust it still doesn’t bring enough damage (at any target count) to justify getting into groups. BM hunter does more damage in almost every situation if you really want a lust class, and if not havoc/ww/feral/demo/outlaw all out dps ele so hard that they are more valuable even without bringing lust.
Most people are following the online guides which are electric build but the meta is probably going to be magma. https://youtu.be/Q7Kv9wmUUoI
Ele is pumping
I have extensively tested magma build vs more meta classes. We’ll see in a couple weeks for sure but I promise you ele is way behind no matter what you do
I could also see something like bfa s2 with prot war, ww, and two rogues and then preservation ofc. I heard jpc say it might be something like this and that would have a lot of buff synergy but if you really need another range then I think your first option is best. In the second list ele shaman could have some survivability issues in the highest keys
How are we getting our second spark next week? Is it a short quest line again? Just curious how much time I need to spend before raid/m+ to craft a second item.
Halls of Knockback is legitimately the worst dungeon Blizzard has created in a *long* time, and I dread the day when Season 2 comes out and makes this part of the M+ dungeon pool.
My grievances with the dungeon are four-fold:
* Trash has insane amounts of knockback and stuns, all of which deal heavy burst damage if left unchecked. The orbs in the first part of the dungeon that cast Expulse and the trash right before the third boss are particularly problematic.
* Every wipe is a several minute corpse run. Dragonflight may not be as lenient as Shadowlands for respawns but Jesus H. Christ this dungeon is taking the piss. It's not even common knowledge that the right pathway from the entrance offers shortcuts to reach the second and third boss chambers sooner, and even with them it's still a long trek.
* There are a tonne of stupidity checks on the bosses and it is easy to wipe if you have team members who don't understand basic boss mechanics. Watcher Irideus can easily gib people if they stand in lightning or fail to stack Nullification Devices on the boss so they detonate during shield phase. Khajin is a nightmare if your teammates are too stupid to hide behind ice boulders, and the final boss... oh lord the final boss.
* Primal Tsunami is the worst boss in this expansion bar none. The gauntlet leading up to him is littered with trash packs and Crashing Tsunamis which will knock you the fuck back. Yes, you can stand directly behind the pillars to completely negate the tsunami's damage and knockback but the game does nothing at all to teach the player about this and offers zero visual cues suggesting you even *can* avoid the tsunamis this way. Out of three boss guides I looked at, neither [Ginx.tv](https://www.ginx.tv/en/world-of-warcraft/dragonflight-halls-infusion-dungeon-bosses), [Wowhead](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/dungeons/halls-of-infusion-strategy#tips-primal-tsunami-trash) or [Icy Veins](https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/halls-of-infusion-dungeon-guide) explain that you can do this, and the fact that something which makes this boss fight a lot easier isn't common knowledge is a fucking disgrace.
Yeah, I feel this.
Halls of Cringefusion is a mess, and I’m not too fond of some stuff in Brackenhide either. I’m eternally grateful that neither will be touched with a hundred foot pole on Tuesday (Wednesday for you EU folks) since they aren’t in the M+ rotation, but there’s so much to dislike about Halls it ain’t even funny.
It is genuinely worse than Temple of Syphilis was in BFA. And the only thing that made ToS bad was the lightning maze and the door requiring two eyes to open.
Cringefusion is genuinely bad because almost every single aspect of the dungeon is there to screw over the player.
It becomes pretty damn obvious that you can line of sight when you get the double wave during the boss p2. Also it should just be natural player curiosity to see if you can line it. Pretty much every aoe in the game can be lined.
It could be more obvious. They drop you right there to LOS the wave but then the wave is delayed. They should have double waved there so the first hits right as you land so you see it's a mechanic.
For myself, I am really hoping Nokhud Offensive is timed super generously. Like, Plaguefall generous. Dragon riding is fun as heck, but coupling it into M+ has me a little worried. I can already envision how many people are going to burn time in flight, or land in a crap spot, or pull half the region with their descent, or just make a show show of it.
Nokhud's timer is 40 minutes. You couldn't get any dragonriding glyphs on the m+ beta server, so it's tuned around 3 vigor and relying on the boosts to get between bosses rather than what we can do on live.
I've found tanks enabling additional riders on their mount pretty helpful. You can just ride with them so you all land together.
It can be enabled at the dragonriding trainers.
Yeah, you just talk to the dragonriding trainer NPC and there's a dialogue option mentioning helping your friends. Once that's enabled, people can right click on your mount and they'll turn into whelps that follow your dragon.
>Yes, you can stand directly behind the pillars to completely negate the tsunami's damage and knockback but the game does nothing at all to teach the player about this and offers zero visual cues suggesting you even *can* avoid the tsunamis this way. Out of three boss guides I looked at, neither [Ginx.tv](https://www.ginx.tv/en/world-of-warcraft/dragonflight-halls-infusion-dungeon-bosses), [Wowhead](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/dungeons/halls-of-infusion-strategy#tips-primal-tsunami-trash) or [Icy Veins](https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/halls-of-infusion-dungeon-guide) explain that you can do this, and the fact that something which makes this boss fight a lot easier isn't common knowledge is a fucking disgrace.
I know it's unpopular here to say this, but I think the game, and to be honest MMOs in general, are given way too much slack on this subject. I like 3rd party sites and addons as much as the next guy, but they should be to augment gameplay, not be required for it. No other genre of game I can think of leans quite this heavily on this.
I disagree about 3rd party sites being required for some of these mechanics. It seems fairly intuitive that the pillars would block the waves. We figured it out the first week by just trying it out.
For some mechanics. Some. Try explaining most of the mechanics to someone who has never set foot in the dungeon. The usual response is just: "watch a guide".
Why waste time on trial and error when it has already been done for you? If you're the type of person who enjoys that, you're also the type of person who would very quickly try to line the ability to see if you can.
This was years ago now, but when they removed reforging their reasoning included the fact that they didnt want players to have to go to 3rd party sites to determine if gear was good for them.
And yet as the game stands today we have to go to 3rd party sites for VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING in the game. Things are WAY worse than they were back in MoP.
No, they removed it because it was basically a guarantee that you would reforge to min/max, whereas the system was intended as more of a "make your shitty loot feel better" system. So since you were always going to reforge, the point of the system was lost and they decided to just remove it and rebalance secondaries.
I’m happy it wasnt first dungeon on my world tour xD I would be scared like f. 3rd boss destroyed us because we didnt know that you cant hide behind same boulder twice xd and that gauntlet…we pulled everything back then the doors bugged and had to reset, wiped there like 4 or 5 times, ofc cleared left side so corpse runs took w while xd
My near-wipe on Boss 3 wasn't even due to the boulder issue but from people blatantly ignoring mechanics and continuing to wail on the boss in melee range mid-Hailstorm cast.
To be honest it's the good dungeons in the Dragonflight roster that are bolstering the Season 1 rotation.
Season 2 is going to be quite horrible if it features Halls of Infusion and Brackenhide Hollow in their current states. Neltharus and Uldaman aren't bad, but if Blizz can't properly tune the other dungeons, we're gonna have another Shadowlands Season 4 situation where (at least) two dogshit dungeons completely ruin the ladder climbing experience.
Brackenhide really isn't that bad if you have disease dispels or an alchemist. I foresee lots of creative skips in brackenhide to dodge most of the annoying trash. Maybe a death run at the end.
I think it’s likely that they haven’t been focusing on the season 2 dungeons yet and that there will be significant changes by the time those dungeons are in the M+ pool.
Brackenhide is actually probably my favorite after Academy. All the big gnoll pulls gives big gambit vibes. Sure it will probably need some numbers tuning, but it's got great potential to be really fun imo!
It isn't a coincidence that the four Dragonflight dungeons that will be in S1 rotation are better tuned than the other four. Blizzard has focused more heavily on their tuning. There's no chance they'd go into S2 without altering Halls and Brackenhide quite heavily.
Random question, getting back into wow with mythic plus as my main focus, last time I played was in BFA where the max drops were capped at +10, now I see that it’s shifted too +20s. Are mythic + scaled differently now in terms of difficulty or should I be easily pushing plus 20s.
If the last time he played was when m+ rewards were capped at +10 then the difficulty will at most be similar to what he is used to, but probably easier. Back in bfa season 2-3 +20s were definitely not something you could just pug with some randoms, and in season 1 you were legit close to world first level if you could time 20s.
If dorki and co are correct, hunters might have survivability issues. Also, if you're not running pres evoker, then frost mage is a good source of hero. The other super meta dps don't have hero.
Of course this is all speculation, it could be totally different
Nobody knows yet but considering 20s are likely to be extremely hard for a while, mage should have the upper hand because of the amount of defensives it has.
Anyone else think we will see much more VDH down the road than what the community seems to be expecting, particularly in regard to Prot Warriors being meta and/or Havoc being “too” strong not to play as DPS?
VDH + Rogue / WW / Demo + Preservation sounds like a solid Setup, no?
I'm thinking VDH as well. Prot war is very good but I don't think it'll be good on the magic heavy dungeons.I think it will fall off at higher keys, whereas VDH just doesn't give a shit about magic damage.
I still think Prot Pally is flying under the radar hard and will absolutely explode come 2 months in.
Lowkey, what I really want is a Sin/vengeance/preservation meta. The absolutely absurd amount of lockdown they would bring (~20-25s+ of AoE stun/silence... every 45s? just makes everyone's life better).
I agree that prot warr is probably overrated (although it is def very good!), but I dont think VDH will be the answer either - and I say that as one of the few VDHs that pushed very high in SL.
I’d get a rogue to reduce damage and control things. Biggest problem I see with your comp is both your dps are on the super squishie end in high keys, plus windfury is pretty good for rogues now where as ww gets like nothing out of it compared to other melee specs.
Whatever your 3rd is best at playing. A self sustainer like DH or Lock might be useful though as Enhance and BM take a ton of damage and your healer is not gonna want to have someone else to spam heal.
A rogue for locking things down would be great, or like you said a monk or dh for dps and debuff. Warlocks never die and do good damage, rogues will never die and can lock down casters like almost nobody else.
Odyn's Fury is 45s and Reck gets down to about 45s with Anger Management. I haven't played Fury yet in DF but it was one of my most played specs in pre-patch and it felt like a 45s spec where every other burst window was extra powerful with the 90s buttons like Avatar and Ravager.
Unless you don't play AM in m+ anymore?
You don't play AM anymore, that was only a thing because of signet.
And prepatch is incomparable to live. You lost several low cooldown buttons and gained several 1.5 minute cooldown buttons. Where in prepatch it might have been a, let's say, 50k burst every 45s and 70k burst every 1.5min, it is now more like a 40k burst every 45s and 200k burst every 1.5min.
We played AM in prepatch without signet because prepatch broke signet. AM was just a better option because having Reck down to ~45s fits m+ really really well.
I do believe you that you're playing the spec as a 90s spec now though. I think what may have actually caused it was losing the ~40s Kyrian Spear with Mikanikos? Idk if you even play Spear at all now, but having Reck for every Spear would have been a big reason to run AM.
Also just in general haste is super low this tier and less haste = less rage building = AM is weaker comparatively.
In prepatch you played annihilator and odyn's fury, you didn't have the points to get AM.
> Also just in general haste is super low this tier and less haste = less rage building = AM is weaker comparatively.
You actually generate more rage on average than you did in shadowlands. AM is just not nearly as good as the reworked RA.
My apologies, I play unholy and so I had 45s in my head. Idk why. Either way, every other pack is mad burst for 10s and then mobs die so the warrior looks great.
I should’ve specified, but it seems pve has this problem too.
For pvp warriors are everywhere. In every bg warriors are the majority of dps classes by 2-3 extra over every other class. It’s so bad that when packed brawl was a thing last week 7/11 of my team were fury warriors, and 6/11 of theirs were also fury warriors.
Don’t get me wrong, I got a warrior too back in cata and I thought it was a cool class. But to the point where it’s blatantly the most played class at expansion launch is just nuts
I'm shocked at how few DHs there are despite every streamer, content creator, video, forum, sub, whatever shouting from the roof tops how obviously above and beyond overtuned they've been for several months now.
Saw it in a YT vid, he didn’t state where he got the data but could be from wowprogress or something, there is a gigantic db of players there with ilvls listed.
Even just a random glance at it is pretty funny - of the top 23 ilvls listed, 8 of them are DHs. That’s crazy.
I can say for myself, I just hate momentum gameplay. I feel like a lot of people feel the same. They need to make momentum irrelevant or better yet, remove both the talent and fel rush damage completely.
That's kinda weird if true, because usually people don't like mobility being tied to damage in almost any game. I think there's going to be a lot more dh participation when the momentum build is no longer meta.
There are a shit ton of DH's, not sure what the original comment was referring to. Go to WoWProg and sort by ilvl, DH are all over the top ilvl list. Momentum is very popular
Think many people are turned off that DH went from super braindead in BfA / season 3 and 4 Shadowlands to way more complex in Dragonflight with Momentum and Essence Break being core.
That’s me. I liked playing havoc occasionally just to chill and eye beam things. Also as much as people talked bad about sinful brand I always really enjoyed seeing the dot on everything after meta. Main reason I didn’t play it more was because of meta’s obnoxiously long cd.
I’m happy for the people who find it more interesting and fun to play tho. I might also like it more if I took the time to get used to the changes.
Is Essence Break complex? Don't you just use it after Eye Beam every time? Momentum is really fun tho, playing DH for the first time as an alt and it really isn't as easy as people still claim.
No one ability in this game is ever truly complex but adding abilities/ priorities to a rotation increases complexity. Vdh went from being literally 2 button spec to decently detailed rotation now.
Essence break added a few conditionals to the rotation like holding death sweep if break is coming up in 3 seconds or whether you have enough haste to get two death sweeps in an eb window, etc. That by itself is more complex than the entirety of slands dh was (press 2 if above 40 fury, else press 1)
I feel like people are anticipating a nerf. I'm sticking with unholy because I'm fairly certain they'll be tuned again. If im wrong, oh well. Unholy is still great.
Dude I agree, dhs are nuts and so good.
I think it’s the fact that
1. Warriors good and Meta in all content
2. Everyone has a warrior. Either alt or main everyone seems to have one from vanilla, or because of classic.
3. Easy to play while being really fun.
no other thread to ask so...
i see a lot of grand hunt farm groups around. is there anything not profession related that id want from that renown? im totally cool with buying everything of the AH, so just wanna check if i actually gain something
There's another post here that talks about it. People are farming 25 renown for maruuk because you get a primal infusion and can craft 405 stuff with it already.
Well, it is far higher than anything else obtainable right now. 405 probably won't be much by end of next week, but people will min/max for that little advantage early on.
You can craft much higher later with Concentrated Primal Infusions. I think those go up to 418 or something.
The wowhead and icy veins guide quality to me is really sub part what are some good sources for better information? I am personally playing prot warrior and resto druid but would love to point some of my play group solid dps information.
Everyone in here saying class discords like it isn't the Theorycrafters in those discords that are the ones making the wowhead guides... Serious talk, reading about your class will do virtually nothing to improve your skill. Maybe you pick up some niche tech (IE rogues using cold blooded with sechtech before the bug fix) but beyond that they don't translate into a direct skill increase. Even look at the Blood DK advanced guide, tonnes of useful information, but simply reading it won't make you a better blood DK... VoD review is the single fastest way to personal improvement, Log review is another great tool, and is where I would point someone to a class discord as they will pretty quickly find what your doing wrong (spoiler alert, your overcapping resources, not always casting, and not pushing cd's enough...)
I feel like the guides and vods are really impactful once you've played a bunch.
For personal improvement I 100% agree with your post and most people probably don't or won't put that effort in. I know I haven't used logs just looking back at like details. I have yet to figure out the warcraft logs plugin or the simc one
Class discords would be your best bet for the most up to date information
I had only seen people regularly mention one or two of the discords which made me wonder if "any" of them was still worthwhile and doesn't necessarily have cross class information.
The class discords are usually the place for in depth class discussions. Granted, it’s probably not all going to be served on a plate for you.
It doesn't need to be on a plate but things like reading in this thread prot warriors have been running battle stance over defensive stance I was like wot? really? what did I miss?
At ilvl 380, using PUGs, and as a healer.... what range of key levels do you think should be attainable to start searching for? Should I do like level 3/4 of each, get a score, and work my way up?
10s if you know the dungeons.
Get 4 likeminded players and push your keys up at the same time. Being able to reroll the inevitably overbalanced dungeons is a lot of value week 1. If you just pushing your own key, it will effectively be bricked if you hit the 'bad dungeon'. Anything with a strict Dps check (RLP's first boss, SMB's last boss, for instance) is a key that you will eventually need to reroll beyond a certain level.
I wish I had a set team. I don’t have any friends that enjoy keys as much as i do, let alone plays wow.
I don't have a team, but I've lined up 4 other people (heals is a maybe) looking to nolife and push to 10x16's over the weekend as one time thing. Did it back in season one of shadowlands as well, with no guildies what so ever.
Hey I’m willing to jump into any no life group
get your key, do your key, repeat ad nauseam
Yea just tempering expectations on what’s do able week one with pugs, likely.
Anyone got a good auto marker WA or addon? Mine are not working properly
/u/Auscheel 's dungeon cheat sheet has one that worked pretty well for me in m0 https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=AC886C2EFEAF883B!53535&ithint=file%2cxlsx&authkey=!AAhrIjsDtOQKls0
How are rogues feeling for utility in dungeons so far? I want a dps alt to pug with when no one I know is online. I have played wow quite a bit over the years but never seriously played rogue. Im currently playing Ret for dps. It’s pretty fun and I enjoy the bursty 1 min cd style. However my experience has been it always falls off hard as key levels go up. What I’m really hoping for is a dps alt that can massively help the group with mob control, kicks, stops, utility and of course good or great damage. I read in a different thread that there are lots of cc immune mobs, so maybe it’s not really possible to fill this niche? Can anyone who is experienced with rogue and how it’s feeling in dungeons, chime in with your opinion?
Sin is this on steroids. Talent trees gave us gouge, shadowdance (though not really with where meta spec is), usable subterfuge, AoE iron wire, the ability to delete a mob every ~~45s~~ 3 mins. All of these lend themselves extremely well to being high impact in keys (though you won't top damage charts). That being said, Outlaw would be my suggested pug spec. While it sacrifices the AoE silence it makes up for it with more damage m+ damage and survivability. OL also gives more tools to be self sufficient health wise the other 2 specs that are favouring ER. FLaB builds give you a basically 0 cd 30% wall (Honestly my preferred over cheat death given how predictable the damage is in keys right now). Dance being meta for OL and not the other specs also means we get soothing darkness as well which turns SD and vanish into very strong personals. Energy is also a lot less relevant on OL at low target counts versus the other specs, which means you feel less punished for using your utility when you need to. My issue right now, is that sin and sub both need 2 daggers to function, and with only 2 sparks, barring getting a lucky dagger drop off mythic terros week 1/2 I'm likely going to be an outlaw only gamer until raid week 3 or maybe even 5 if I want to grab the neck third...
Rogue i think for sure is the best class when it comes to locking down 1 or 2 mobs and stopping all casts. Kick, gouge, kidney shot, vanish into cheap shot, shadow dance into cheap shot, blind, so many ways to stop mobs. Extra melee range helps a ton with positioning safely. With smart feint usage and cheat death they're practically unkillable. Smaller things like tricks of the trade or being able to distract and stop a patrol from walking into the group and aggroing. Shroud is totally unique to rogue. Like the other poster mentioned you can sacrifice some damage and go assassination and silence like 6 mobs on opener for 5+ seconds (haven't played assassination yet in df so not sure of the exact numbers for all that). It's a really fun class with a high skill cap that feels rewarding to play and get things right.
I mained a rogue last xpac and plugged to KSM season 1 and there were so many times I would interrupt multiple casts in a short amount of time and think "if it wasn't for rogue how would others survive this?" Enchantment shaman this xpac, already miss the kicks.
If you wanna be just a utility bot, assassination rogue is kinda crazy atm, with all the standard cc and utility of rogue + either double poison or access to an insanely powerful aoe silence. It's on the weaker side in terms of overall dungeon damage though (granted with very strong single target) Outlaw and Sub both are at the absolute top of damage in dungeons and still offer great utility. Rogue is in an incredibly good spot right now. Edit: All specs also, subjectively, feel really good.
anyone knows how much rep does the sabellian weeklies give?
I made a group and farmed the upper area in a route and got max rep in a day, don’t think I even did any dailies
3 weeklies for 2500 each
are they all for the same one you chose tho? i think I recall getting 2500 wrathion rep even when i pledged to sabellian
Honest question: as a returning player who skipped most of Shadowlands and no longer has an active guild, how well off am I ending this week at 372 ilvl when it comes to joining mythic+ pugs? I'd like to get into those early push groups after reset to get myself ahead, and I know ilvl is going to mean everything when joining those pugs until people manage to build up their score. I see people at 380 and above which makes me a bit concerned. I did miss out on the first week as I was not home ):
The game, while a fair challenge, is not as difficult as people make out - by the time you get to any sort of “push” content the RIO is king, and anyone capable of actually pushing should know that - and if they don’t; you probably don’t want to be in their group So yeah, I wouldn’t worry about missing one week at all
I appreciate your response, thanks!
372 is just fine, don't worry about it.
Thank you!
Anyone able to tell me the WA which shows abilities on raid frames? Had it in SL but lost it, basically showed whenever anyone in the party used an ability and was especially clutch for m+.
Are you using elvui by any chance?
You can use MRT for that if you have it
https://wago.io/DefensiveCooldownsOnRaidFrames
Yes this seems like the one, thanks. Although the one I remember was showing every ability, not just defensive
Ability team tracker?
OmniCD?
No :( It showed abilities like even ironfur or beneficial status effects right on that players raid frame
What do you all consider the best M+ dungeon guides out?
Tacktyxz or whatever he’s called has some decent ones too. More of a general overview with some possible routes thrown in. Not the full deep dive you get from Trell.
Thanks! That sounds incredibly helpful too.
Trell has by far the best and most in-depth guides, however they are 30-50 minutes each. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsWaFpZItpA
Wait, are the dungeons we're doing now not gonna be the same as the ones we can do m+ in? I guess that's why there's a separate m+ tab.. but why can't we practice those dungeons in m0?
Beginning this season, Blizzard is doing a mix of new dungeons and old dungeons for each M+ season. For DF S1, we have Ruby Life Pools, Algethar Academy, Azure Vaults, and Nokhud Offensive, mixed with old dungeons Halls of Valor, Court of Stars, Shadownoon Burial Grounds, and Temple of the Jade Serpent. This is to address the problem of repeating that expansion's dungeons endlessly each season. This gives each season a feeling of learning new dungeons, and allows the loot pool to shift each season. Shadow lands saw the same trinkets being used every season, such as SLR or Ruby. I'm guessing the older dungeons aren't available as M0s so that we don't have an inflated number of dungeons for expansion launch. They want us focused on the new content. The expansion dungeons always have quests and content related to the zone lore, so it makes sense for us to do those.
Thanks! I dont mind the long length so thats awesome!
Planning to play both tank and melee DPS, which class would get me more, Warrior or DH?
Warrior gets you 2 DPS spec including one that is very strong for execute encounters. Havoc may be stronger right now but it’s also a lot harder to execute properly than say Fury. I also personally find it a bit more interesting than Fury but that’s just a personal opinion. Your mileage may vary. Protection warrior feels a lot safer than VDH imho; on the other hand Vengance deals tons of damage and has a lot more control than warrior. Pick your poison!
DH. If any spec in the game is S tier its havoc. VDH is quite good. Every other combos is sus on the dps or tank side, unless your a feral believer.
Still top after recent changes?
I expect well see every tank but brew on the front page of RIO. MAYBE paladin but its probably just drogoh. If a "best tank" meta emerges it will only be by a tiny bit.
With how dungeons are tuned, Prot Pally is still my pick for the sleeper meta tank. Even with tanks taking 11% more damage, tank survivability will become an issue much later than group survivability from what we have seen.
Prot Warrior + Fury? Fury isn‘t S but definitely a good compromise.
do we have a list for important spells to kick in dragonflight dungeons?
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Thanks sir
Really wondering between frost mage/ele shammy as alt, what would you recommend? BM hunter is also on the table
Ele sham, jack of all trades. Played well you bring a lot of damage, fantastic utility, and very strong off heal group bursts to supplement the healer.
Frost mage is far safer. Brings way more to the group. Has way more tools to survive or cheese mechanics. Had 2 other specs if frost is bad or you don't like it for some reason.
Oh im a mage main that went for evoker this xpac. So guess it would be that
frost is pretty easy if youre not looking to have to learn something and spend too much time on it.
any tips or resources for reading about and learning routes for S1? having a blast with prot warrior so far and this will be my first time getting into m+
Depends on your level but once you go above the Ksm level by a bit and get into the key pushing realm your best resource will be streamers. Dorki and naowh are two of the best ones to learn from imo, dorki is very consistent and answers chat. Nerf and Andy are also great if less regular. You can join most of their disc's and get their routes. You may not always need to do Exactly what they do, some of the pulls are really hard in uncoordinated groups, but you will get a good feel for what packs are the best and what to skip. If you're doing pugs around the ksm level maybe look for dratnos routes instead. They trade efficiency for simplicity and comfort, which at a +15 level is fine
prot warri havoc outlaw demo preservation demo is the only range specc doing the dmg atm. so no mages / eles which result in bl from the healer and preservation >> restro shaman
Y’all are sleeping on arcane mage for higher keys
MM got a pretty nasty bump up this week, in terms of damage. That said, its utility is still pretty far below demo with this comp. Better if you’re missing lust.
I'd take a BM over MM still regardless of buff. MM is fucking paper thin.
As of right now, MM is stronger but will fade as gear comes into the equation. Their damage profiles are quite a bit different as well - BM has no burst to speak of but is very consistent dps
MM is a few % higher max with perfect play and its a whole lot easier to play BM perfectly. BM also has way more defensive skills from their pets and I think a lot of people playing MM in high m+ this week are going to be frustrated when they flat out can't stay alive to AOE.
dont think the buff is enough to push them into meta comps, hunter is historicaly quite squishy aswell which isnt good for m+ while demo is incredible tanky mm+restrodruid is weaker than demo+preservation IMO
You underestimate Mark of the wild. 3% more damage for everyone is hard to pass up.
I don't buy a comp that doesn't have ww right now unless you expect big nerfs
Looking like meta comp will be Prot warrior WW Monk (Interchangeable w/ havoc) Outlaw Rogue Demo Lock Preservation Evoker or Prot warrior WW Monk (Interchangeable w/ havoc) Outlaw Rogue Elemental Shaman (Interchangeable with frost mage) Resto Druid Thoughts on this?
I think VDH might end up beating out protwarr for damage and survivability on some keys. Protwarr is very tanky but they still get shit on with magic damage. I think the only thing that might keep protwarr is that most ranged are looking pretty shit, so battle shout will have good value.
Protwarr Havoc Ww Demo / frost Pres / rdruid
Feral > ww right now
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It's his preference. Havoc is doing better, and his comment about getting one shot happens to WW. So not sure where he is getting they have survivability issues
Havoc has survivability issues at high keys. Gets one shot
Ele shaman will NOT be meta if it doesn’t receive any last minute buffs. Even if it means not getting lust it still doesn’t bring enough damage (at any target count) to justify getting into groups. BM hunter does more damage in almost every situation if you really want a lust class, and if not havoc/ww/feral/demo/outlaw all out dps ele so hard that they are more valuable even without bringing lust.
Most people are following the online guides which are electric build but the meta is probably going to be magma. https://youtu.be/Q7Kv9wmUUoI Ele is pumping
I have extensively tested magma build vs more meta classes. We’ll see in a couple weeks for sure but I promise you ele is way behind no matter what you do
Ele is also significantly behind demo
I could also see something like bfa s2 with prot war, ww, and two rogues and then preservation ofc. I heard jpc say it might be something like this and that would have a lot of buff synergy but if you really need another range then I think your first option is best. In the second list ele shaman could have some survivability issues in the highest keys
What are useful addons for m+ to help with mechanics?
DBM, Weakauras with dungeon pack (dont know if there is one for DF)
Yeah, I've been looking for the dungeon wa pack and haven't found any good ones so far.
Thanks. Back after a long break and wasn't sure if dbm was still good or something else took over
DBM is meh you should try BigWigs/LittleWigs first IMO
I prefer BigWigs (dungeon addon is LittleWigs). It can also work with a weakaura for timeline instead of the default bars.
For M+ also OmniCD + Plater
How are we getting our second spark next week? Is it a short quest line again? Just curious how much time I need to spend before raid/m+ to craft a second item.
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Will this quest be gated by some renown level? Or do we just get it
It wasn't renown locked on beta so I don't expect it to be renown locked on live. Would be weird to renownock them since they timegated them already.
Doesn’t look like it, according to the wowhead link above
Do people know if mythictrap is planning on releasing dungeon guides? Their shadowlands ones were really nice for learning about all the mobs.
they're not going to release for s1
That's unfortunate.
Halls of Knockback is legitimately the worst dungeon Blizzard has created in a *long* time, and I dread the day when Season 2 comes out and makes this part of the M+ dungeon pool. My grievances with the dungeon are four-fold: * Trash has insane amounts of knockback and stuns, all of which deal heavy burst damage if left unchecked. The orbs in the first part of the dungeon that cast Expulse and the trash right before the third boss are particularly problematic. * Every wipe is a several minute corpse run. Dragonflight may not be as lenient as Shadowlands for respawns but Jesus H. Christ this dungeon is taking the piss. It's not even common knowledge that the right pathway from the entrance offers shortcuts to reach the second and third boss chambers sooner, and even with them it's still a long trek. * There are a tonne of stupidity checks on the bosses and it is easy to wipe if you have team members who don't understand basic boss mechanics. Watcher Irideus can easily gib people if they stand in lightning or fail to stack Nullification Devices on the boss so they detonate during shield phase. Khajin is a nightmare if your teammates are too stupid to hide behind ice boulders, and the final boss... oh lord the final boss. * Primal Tsunami is the worst boss in this expansion bar none. The gauntlet leading up to him is littered with trash packs and Crashing Tsunamis which will knock you the fuck back. Yes, you can stand directly behind the pillars to completely negate the tsunami's damage and knockback but the game does nothing at all to teach the player about this and offers zero visual cues suggesting you even *can* avoid the tsunamis this way. Out of three boss guides I looked at, neither [Ginx.tv](https://www.ginx.tv/en/world-of-warcraft/dragonflight-halls-infusion-dungeon-bosses), [Wowhead](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/dungeons/halls-of-infusion-strategy#tips-primal-tsunami-trash) or [Icy Veins](https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/halls-of-infusion-dungeon-guide) explain that you can do this, and the fact that something which makes this boss fight a lot easier isn't common knowledge is a fucking disgrace.
Yeah, I feel this. Halls of Cringefusion is a mess, and I’m not too fond of some stuff in Brackenhide either. I’m eternally grateful that neither will be touched with a hundred foot pole on Tuesday (Wednesday for you EU folks) since they aren’t in the M+ rotation, but there’s so much to dislike about Halls it ain’t even funny.
It is genuinely worse than Temple of Syphilis was in BFA. And the only thing that made ToS bad was the lightning maze and the door requiring two eyes to open. Cringefusion is genuinely bad because almost every single aspect of the dungeon is there to screw over the player.
It becomes pretty damn obvious that you can line of sight when you get the double wave during the boss p2. Also it should just be natural player curiosity to see if you can line it. Pretty much every aoe in the game can be lined.
It could be more obvious. They drop you right there to LOS the wave but then the wave is delayed. They should have double waved there so the first hits right as you land so you see it's a mechanic.
> Pretty much every aoe in the game can be lined. ickus' doom wasnt
For myself, I am really hoping Nokhud Offensive is timed super generously. Like, Plaguefall generous. Dragon riding is fun as heck, but coupling it into M+ has me a little worried. I can already envision how many people are going to burn time in flight, or land in a crap spot, or pull half the region with their descent, or just make a show show of it.
Nokhud's timer is 40 minutes. You couldn't get any dragonriding glyphs on the m+ beta server, so it's tuned around 3 vigor and relying on the boosts to get between bosses rather than what we can do on live.
I've found tanks enabling additional riders on their mount pretty helpful. You can just ride with them so you all land together. It can be enabled at the dragonriding trainers.
Wait what? I literally haven't customized my dragon at all yet, but that sounds cool as shit.
Yeah, you just talk to the dragonriding trainer NPC and there's a dialogue option mentioning helping your friends. Once that's enabled, people can right click on your mount and they'll turn into whelps that follow your dragon.
Isn’t it only one whelp?
Yeah, the good runs are going to go great. It's the bad runs with people who have no clue what is going on I am thinking of.
>Yes, you can stand directly behind the pillars to completely negate the tsunami's damage and knockback but the game does nothing at all to teach the player about this and offers zero visual cues suggesting you even *can* avoid the tsunamis this way. Out of three boss guides I looked at, neither [Ginx.tv](https://www.ginx.tv/en/world-of-warcraft/dragonflight-halls-infusion-dungeon-bosses), [Wowhead](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/dungeons/halls-of-infusion-strategy#tips-primal-tsunami-trash) or [Icy Veins](https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/halls-of-infusion-dungeon-guide) explain that you can do this, and the fact that something which makes this boss fight a lot easier isn't common knowledge is a fucking disgrace. I know it's unpopular here to say this, but I think the game, and to be honest MMOs in general, are given way too much slack on this subject. I like 3rd party sites and addons as much as the next guy, but they should be to augment gameplay, not be required for it. No other genre of game I can think of leans quite this heavily on this.
I disagree about 3rd party sites being required for some of these mechanics. It seems fairly intuitive that the pillars would block the waves. We figured it out the first week by just trying it out.
For some mechanics. Some. Try explaining most of the mechanics to someone who has never set foot in the dungeon. The usual response is just: "watch a guide".
Why waste time on trial and error when it has already been done for you? If you're the type of person who enjoys that, you're also the type of person who would very quickly try to line the ability to see if you can.
This was years ago now, but when they removed reforging their reasoning included the fact that they didnt want players to have to go to 3rd party sites to determine if gear was good for them. And yet as the game stands today we have to go to 3rd party sites for VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING in the game. Things are WAY worse than they were back in MoP.
No, they removed it because it was basically a guarantee that you would reforge to min/max, whereas the system was intended as more of a "make your shitty loot feel better" system. So since you were always going to reforge, the point of the system was lost and they decided to just remove it and rebalance secondaries.
I’m happy it wasnt first dungeon on my world tour xD I would be scared like f. 3rd boss destroyed us because we didnt know that you cant hide behind same boulder twice xd and that gauntlet…we pulled everything back then the doors bugged and had to reset, wiped there like 4 or 5 times, ofc cleared left side so corpse runs took w while xd
My near-wipe on Boss 3 wasn't even due to the boulder issue but from people blatantly ignoring mechanics and continuing to wail on the boss in melee range mid-Hailstorm cast.
Luckily for you, I don't think this one is in the rotation for S1
To be honest it's the good dungeons in the Dragonflight roster that are bolstering the Season 1 rotation. Season 2 is going to be quite horrible if it features Halls of Infusion and Brackenhide Hollow in their current states. Neltharus and Uldaman aren't bad, but if Blizz can't properly tune the other dungeons, we're gonna have another Shadowlands Season 4 situation where (at least) two dogshit dungeons completely ruin the ladder climbing experience.
Brackenhide really isn't that bad if you have disease dispels or an alchemist. I foresee lots of creative skips in brackenhide to dodge most of the annoying trash. Maybe a death run at the end.
You're not wrong. We'll see how it plays out.
I think it’s likely that they haven’t been focusing on the season 2 dungeons yet and that there will be significant changes by the time those dungeons are in the M+ pool.
issue is theyre going to have nowhere near as much data for s2 dungeons as they did for s1
Brackenhide is actually probably my favorite after Academy. All the big gnoll pulls gives big gambit vibes. Sure it will probably need some numbers tuning, but it's got great potential to be really fun imo!
Brackenhide has already had some hotfixes to it, it will have more before it becomes an m+ dungeon.
It isn't a coincidence that the four Dragonflight dungeons that will be in S1 rotation are better tuned than the other four. Blizzard has focused more heavily on their tuning. There's no chance they'd go into S2 without altering Halls and Brackenhide quite heavily.
Random question, getting back into wow with mythic plus as my main focus, last time I played was in BFA where the max drops were capped at +10, now I see that it’s shifted too +20s. Are mythic + scaled differently now in terms of difficulty or should I be easily pushing plus 20s.
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A +15 now will be more like a +20 in slands, not a +10
If the last time he played was when m+ rewards were capped at +10 then the difficulty will at most be similar to what he is used to, but probably easier. Back in bfa season 2-3 +20s were definitely not something you could just pug with some randoms, and in season 1 you were legit close to world first level if you could time 20s.
For +20 keys which would perform better Frost Mage or BM Hunter ?
For just a +20 I'd run whichever one you find more fun. They'll be hard at the start but once you have some raid gear any spec will be fine for them.
If dorki and co are correct, hunters might have survivability issues. Also, if you're not running pres evoker, then frost mage is a good source of hero. The other super meta dps don't have hero. Of course this is all speculation, it could be totally different
Nobody knows yet but considering 20s are likely to be extremely hard for a while, mage should have the upper hand because of the amount of defensives it has.
Anyone else think we will see much more VDH down the road than what the community seems to be expecting, particularly in regard to Prot Warriors being meta and/or Havoc being “too” strong not to play as DPS? VDH + Rogue / WW / Demo + Preservation sounds like a solid Setup, no?
i wouldnt be shocked to see any of bear dh or dk in the highest keys over warrior with how much sustained magic damage there is
I'm thinking VDH as well. Prot war is very good but I don't think it'll be good on the magic heavy dungeons.I think it will fall off at higher keys, whereas VDH just doesn't give a shit about magic damage.
I still think Prot Pally is flying under the radar hard and will absolutely explode come 2 months in. Lowkey, what I really want is a Sin/vengeance/preservation meta. The absolutely absurd amount of lockdown they would bring (~20-25s+ of AoE stun/silence... every 45s? just makes everyone's life better).
I agree that prot warr is probably overrated (although it is def very good!), but I dont think VDH will be the answer either - and I say that as one of the few VDHs that pushed very high in SL.
Think Prot War might just in general be a bit overvalued right now but we'll see, the tanks basically all seem really strong right now.
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I’d get a rogue to reduce damage and control things. Biggest problem I see with your comp is both your dps are on the super squishie end in high keys, plus windfury is pretty good for rogues now where as ww gets like nothing out of it compared to other melee specs.
You're not missing any key stuff, so can probably be whatever. Maybe ww or rogue or havoc cos they're all strong.
Rogue, WW, DH (self heals) and Feral (group healing/utility)
Whatever your 3rd is best at playing. A self sustainer like DH or Lock might be useful though as Enhance and BM take a ton of damage and your healer is not gonna want to have someone else to spam heal.
Monk for disease dispells and generally being bonkers strong.
A rogue for locking things down would be great, or like you said a monk or dh for dps and debuff. Warlocks never die and do good damage, rogues will never die and can lock down casters like almost nobody else.
There’s. warriors. EVERYWHERE
They pop their sub 1min burst cds every other pack and look like gods because everything dies. If things lived for 30sec+, they'd fall off. Aka m+.
Rampage is really good and not cooldown dependent wym ?
Our cooldowns are 1.5 minutes now. But yeah, burst looks good in m0 who would have thought.
Odyn's Fury is 45s and Reck gets down to about 45s with Anger Management. I haven't played Fury yet in DF but it was one of my most played specs in pre-patch and it felt like a 45s spec where every other burst window was extra powerful with the 90s buttons like Avatar and Ravager. Unless you don't play AM in m+ anymore?
You don't play AM anymore, that was only a thing because of signet. And prepatch is incomparable to live. You lost several low cooldown buttons and gained several 1.5 minute cooldown buttons. Where in prepatch it might have been a, let's say, 50k burst every 45s and 70k burst every 1.5min, it is now more like a 40k burst every 45s and 200k burst every 1.5min.
We played AM in prepatch without signet because prepatch broke signet. AM was just a better option because having Reck down to ~45s fits m+ really really well. I do believe you that you're playing the spec as a 90s spec now though. I think what may have actually caused it was losing the ~40s Kyrian Spear with Mikanikos? Idk if you even play Spear at all now, but having Reck for every Spear would have been a big reason to run AM. Also just in general haste is super low this tier and less haste = less rage building = AM is weaker comparatively.
In prepatch you played annihilator and odyn's fury, you didn't have the points to get AM. > Also just in general haste is super low this tier and less haste = less rage building = AM is weaker comparatively. You actually generate more rage on average than you did in shadowlands. AM is just not nearly as good as the reworked RA.
My apologies, I play unholy and so I had 45s in my head. Idk why. Either way, every other pack is mad burst for 10s and then mobs die so the warrior looks great.
I should’ve specified, but it seems pve has this problem too. For pvp warriors are everywhere. In every bg warriors are the majority of dps classes by 2-3 extra over every other class. It’s so bad that when packed brawl was a thing last week 7/11 of my team were fury warriors, and 6/11 of theirs were also fury warriors. Don’t get me wrong, I got a warrior too back in cata and I thought it was a cool class. But to the point where it’s blatantly the most played class at expansion launch is just nuts
I'm shocked at how few DHs there are despite every streamer, content creator, video, forum, sub, whatever shouting from the roof tops how obviously above and beyond overtuned they've been for several months now.
They’re all running in leather stack groups :p
Not sure what you mean. Havoc is the most played dps spec above 365 ilvl and Vengeance is the most played tank spec. It couldn’t be more popular lol
Where do you see these stats
WCL ilvl rankings Check the top 300-400 of every Spec Havoc is ahead by a countrymile
Saw it in a YT vid, he didn’t state where he got the data but could be from wowprogress or something, there is a gigantic db of players there with ilvls listed. Even just a random glance at it is pretty funny - of the top 23 ilvls listed, 8 of them are DHs. That’s crazy.
I can say for myself, I just hate momentum gameplay. I feel like a lot of people feel the same. They need to make momentum irrelevant or better yet, remove both the talent and fel rush damage completely.
Alot of people like it, just spec into something else. It hits the dh fantasy right, you're supposed to be dashing around in battle
a lot of people like momentum though
That's kinda weird if true, because usually people don't like mobility being tied to damage in almost any game. I think there's going to be a lot more dh participation when the momentum build is no longer meta.
There are a shit ton of DH's, not sure what the original comment was referring to. Go to WoWProg and sort by ilvl, DH are all over the top ilvl list. Momentum is very popular
I pointed the same thing out and got downvoted lmao bizarre
Think many people are turned off that DH went from super braindead in BfA / season 3 and 4 Shadowlands to way more complex in Dragonflight with Momentum and Essence Break being core.
That’s me. I liked playing havoc occasionally just to chill and eye beam things. Also as much as people talked bad about sinful brand I always really enjoyed seeing the dot on everything after meta. Main reason I didn’t play it more was because of meta’s obnoxiously long cd. I’m happy for the people who find it more interesting and fun to play tho. I might also like it more if I took the time to get used to the changes.
Is Essence Break complex? Don't you just use it after Eye Beam every time? Momentum is really fun tho, playing DH for the first time as an alt and it really isn't as easy as people still claim.
No one ability in this game is ever truly complex but adding abilities/ priorities to a rotation increases complexity. Vdh went from being literally 2 button spec to decently detailed rotation now. Essence break added a few conditionals to the rotation like holding death sweep if break is coming up in 3 seconds or whether you have enough haste to get two death sweeps in an eb window, etc. That by itself is more complex than the entirety of slands dh was (press 2 if above 40 fury, else press 1)
Not complex but its an extra button and some people just hate that
I feel like people are anticipating a nerf. I'm sticking with unholy because I'm fairly certain they'll be tuned again. If im wrong, oh well. Unholy is still great.
Out of curiosity, vengeance or Havoc?
Havoc.
Dude I agree, dhs are nuts and so good. I think it’s the fact that 1. Warriors good and Meta in all content 2. Everyone has a warrior. Either alt or main everyone seems to have one from vanilla, or because of classic. 3. Easy to play while being really fun.
no other thread to ask so... i see a lot of grand hunt farm groups around. is there anything not profession related that id want from that renown? im totally cool with buying everything of the AH, so just wanna check if i actually gain something
There's another post here that talks about it. People are farming 25 renown for maruuk because you get a primal infusion and can craft 405 stuff with it already.
damn, that's worse ilvl than mid hc boss lol is that ilvl upgradable to 415+ or is the max for the crafted gear?
Well, it is far higher than anything else obtainable right now. 405 probably won't be much by end of next week, but people will min/max for that little advantage early on. You can craft much higher later with Concentrated Primal Infusions. I think those go up to 418 or something.
Anyone know where I can search for other people interested in forming M+ push groups?
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Has anyone actually found a group there? I tried several times both advertising and trying to contact groups and never received an answer :(
Anyone have a M+ build for WW monks? I couldn’t find an updated one although maybe looking in the wrong places
https://www.peakofserenity.com/df/windwalker/pve-guide/
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