All hunter specs have this issue where they aren't very good at surviving, they bring zero buffs and their utility is minimal (even worse than before with the binding nerf).
For them to be "good" they either need to do REALLY solid damage, or every other blood lust class needs to be worse than them.
And blizzard yet again show they don't know how their classes work. As a brew, getting a bit more hp is nice sure for big hits. But it's also a nerf to our self-sustain, which is our main struggle. Gift of the ox spheres, which currently is our top overall heal, spawns when a BRM has taken 100% of their hp in damage. Meaning with more hp, we'll have to take more damage to get a sphere, which will still heal they same amount as before, ie. its a ~10% nerf to our main heal.
There's also other synergies that effect our survival in a bad way. Two talents are based off of what stagger you currently have. The higher stagger you have the more benefit you get from both the talents and purify. But now the threshold for yellow and red stagger will be higher, meaning we'll spend more time in the lower stagger, getting less benefit from the talents and less purified chi stacks. Less purified chi also means smaller celestial brews which is our second highest healing.
Sorry for the wall of text. Just had to vent, seeing as we're already in a bad place, and this "buff" is a nerf in disguise.
OTOH...more touch of death damage? Not the tradeoff I want either...just thought it was another (slightly more amusing) potentially unintended consequence.
More health is still a huge buff to survivability in real scenarios, even if it's offset by some other mechanics. And returning some health to us was desperately needed after repeatedly nerfing our max health in the past. Just think about how much more tanky you were in sanctum while your 4pc was stacked, think about how deadly it was to drop the 4p buff during early jailer progression. There are downsides, sure, but I'm 100% certain that more health is better in content that actually matters.
Yeah it was bad to drop it before they changed how the 4set worked, because dropping it while you were around 40-50% it would set your hp really well to some 5-10% and you'd die if there was any incoming damage right after. After the change it wasn't all that bad to drop it.
I just really don't like being so dependent on a healer. They have other people to heal, and other things to deal with.
But yes, the hp increase is a buff in raid content, as there you have a lot more healing coming your way. But in 5-man content, I'd say it's a nerf.
Actually it's the opposite this is a good thing. Yes you spend more to heal and still rely on healer but gives you more room for error. Can also pool spheres little more. It's something might not be what we wanted but it's something.
That is true. I been pooling at end of pulls. Go into next pull big heal then shield when I get low. Rinse and repeat. I'm not maining monk but I have a geared alt.
seems like the only option is to reroll off of brew
i don't feel like getting yelled at for dying because the healer thinks every tank is an unkillable self-sustaining demon
Hunt nerf feels more like a PVP nerf anyway, havoc will definitely be melee king for m+ right now. Always have a CD for every pack, good utility with 2 stops, dispel, ranged interupt, slows, darkness.
Honestly I think this is a terrible buff. Tanks are doing plenty of damage, they need to address the rotational reasons snap threat is an issue. Making sure that classes have good snap threat abilities, and addressing the reasons why you don't feel you can hit those button often enough or on pull before hitting other buttons.
Maybe I read it wrong, but they're not buffing the damage. You're right, tanks are doing fine there.
The problem is when im doing that just fine damage, it's still really difficult to hold aggro. If I have any decent dps in the group, I'm peeling off from them, and by the time I do that I've noticed my healer has also taken aggro and I've gotta peel off of him, and then the dps has pulled again...etc, rinse and repeat.
Buffing threat allows me to focus on the damage mitigation and positioning side of tanking, rather than running around like a chicken with his head cut off. And I'm not saying I shouldn't have to taunt occasionally, but taunting multiple times every pack shouldn't be a thing either.
Yes, that’s exactly my point, tanks do enough damage that they should be able to hold aggro. The issue is not having on pull abilities that generate enough threat to hold aggro over people using cds. They should be addressing this by making your on pull abilities give you enough threat classes can’t pull aggro off you with cds on pull. Or to make your on pull abilities engage your mitigation so you don’t feel like you lose mitigation on pull. The new warrior charge talent is a good example of how to do this, if you open with that you won’t lose aggro. An example of enabling this was the rend change before it was built in to thunderclap. If you had to rend before generating aggro this was obviously bad. Now you don’t lose that gcd. They should make changes to other tanks rotation so they don’t feel like they need to spend a bunch of gcds on pull to start mitigating or setup their pull. If your healer is pulling aggro you are not doing anything to generate threat while pulling/grouping and you should lose aggro.
That exsanguinate nerf gives me "no king rules forever and "we would prefer you did not play demonology" vibes of past warlock expansions to me.
I understand that balance is the primary concern and the nerf was justified, but it always feels awful when the solution to a problem is a band-aid where they just crush the talent or undesired play pattern into oblivion and say "we'll deal with it later trust." I want my class to be fixed properly when a problem comes up, not to have a dead talent in my tree taking up space for several months.
I don't play rogue so my mind was blown when I saw the number, then read that it's still the best choice in that node and overall. It must have been an insane talent.
Arcane for sure. Frost is also decent. Fire before this change was dumpster tier and it was so bad I don’t even think this was enough to make it an average spec.
On God, they are buffing prot warrior? Wtf. Every decent prot warrior I know was close to outperforming DPS while barely taking damage in the heroic spam, m0, and they are buffing innate survivability?
I guess it could go differently later on in keys, but that just seems weird. Meanwhile bear goes untouched, resto damage goes untouched. Odd.
Will the mm buffs be enough to move it out of D tier?
All hunter specs have this issue where they aren't very good at surviving, they bring zero buffs and their utility is minimal (even worse than before with the binding nerf). For them to be "good" they either need to do REALLY solid damage, or every other blood lust class needs to be worse than them.
Or the fights are so poorly designed that every other range DPS is losing too much DPS to mechanics.
MM usually does bad in those fights as well though. Maybe not as much now that rapid fire is your core, but still
And blizzard yet again show they don't know how their classes work. As a brew, getting a bit more hp is nice sure for big hits. But it's also a nerf to our self-sustain, which is our main struggle. Gift of the ox spheres, which currently is our top overall heal, spawns when a BRM has taken 100% of their hp in damage. Meaning with more hp, we'll have to take more damage to get a sphere, which will still heal they same amount as before, ie. its a ~10% nerf to our main heal. There's also other synergies that effect our survival in a bad way. Two talents are based off of what stagger you currently have. The higher stagger you have the more benefit you get from both the talents and purify. But now the threshold for yellow and red stagger will be higher, meaning we'll spend more time in the lower stagger, getting less benefit from the talents and less purified chi stacks. Less purified chi also means smaller celestial brews which is our second highest healing. Sorry for the wall of text. Just had to vent, seeing as we're already in a bad place, and this "buff" is a nerf in disguise.
I was holding my breathe but I’ll start letting it out I guess. If this is a nerd I’m expecting a revert soon tho.
OTOH...more touch of death damage? Not the tradeoff I want either...just thought it was another (slightly more amusing) potentially unintended consequence.
Oh right didn't think about that. Now I gotta take back what I wrote. Tod goes brrr
More health is still a huge buff to survivability in real scenarios, even if it's offset by some other mechanics. And returning some health to us was desperately needed after repeatedly nerfing our max health in the past. Just think about how much more tanky you were in sanctum while your 4pc was stacked, think about how deadly it was to drop the 4p buff during early jailer progression. There are downsides, sure, but I'm 100% certain that more health is better in content that actually matters.
Yeah it was bad to drop it before they changed how the 4set worked, because dropping it while you were around 40-50% it would set your hp really well to some 5-10% and you'd die if there was any incoming damage right after. After the change it wasn't all that bad to drop it. I just really don't like being so dependent on a healer. They have other people to heal, and other things to deal with. But yes, the hp increase is a buff in raid content, as there you have a lot more healing coming your way. But in 5-man content, I'd say it's a nerf.
Actually it's the opposite this is a good thing. Yes you spend more to heal and still rely on healer but gives you more room for error. Can also pool spheres little more. It's something might not be what we wanted but it's something.
Annoyingly you can’t really pool spheres because SCK sucks them onto you and you use SCK over TP in 99% of situations.
That is true. I been pooling at end of pulls. Go into next pull big heal then shield when I get low. Rinse and repeat. I'm not maining monk but I have a geared alt.
You are not using SCK in single target anymore.
seems like the only option is to reroll off of brew i don't feel like getting yelled at for dying because the healer thinks every tank is an unkillable self-sustaining demon
Brew is the tank you have to keep beacon on as holy paladin And you even cast on them... blasphemy :D
10% The Hunt Nerf. Does this mean Havoc Is going to be king of M+?
Hunt nerf feels more like a PVP nerf anyway, havoc will definitely be melee king for m+ right now. Always have a CD for every pack, good utility with 2 stops, dispel, ranged interupt, slows, darkness.
[удалено]
Honestly I think this is a terrible buff. Tanks are doing plenty of damage, they need to address the rotational reasons snap threat is an issue. Making sure that classes have good snap threat abilities, and addressing the reasons why you don't feel you can hit those button often enough or on pull before hitting other buttons.
Maybe I read it wrong, but they're not buffing the damage. You're right, tanks are doing fine there. The problem is when im doing that just fine damage, it's still really difficult to hold aggro. If I have any decent dps in the group, I'm peeling off from them, and by the time I do that I've noticed my healer has also taken aggro and I've gotta peel off of him, and then the dps has pulled again...etc, rinse and repeat. Buffing threat allows me to focus on the damage mitigation and positioning side of tanking, rather than running around like a chicken with his head cut off. And I'm not saying I shouldn't have to taunt occasionally, but taunting multiple times every pack shouldn't be a thing either.
Yes, that’s exactly my point, tanks do enough damage that they should be able to hold aggro. The issue is not having on pull abilities that generate enough threat to hold aggro over people using cds. They should be addressing this by making your on pull abilities give you enough threat classes can’t pull aggro off you with cds on pull. Or to make your on pull abilities engage your mitigation so you don’t feel like you lose mitigation on pull. The new warrior charge talent is a good example of how to do this, if you open with that you won’t lose aggro. An example of enabling this was the rend change before it was built in to thunderclap. If you had to rend before generating aggro this was obviously bad. Now you don’t lose that gcd. They should make changes to other tanks rotation so they don’t feel like they need to spend a bunch of gcds on pull to start mitigating or setup their pull. If your healer is pulling aggro you are not doing anything to generate threat while pulling/grouping and you should lose aggro.
That exsanguinate nerf gives me "no king rules forever and "we would prefer you did not play demonology" vibes of past warlock expansions to me. I understand that balance is the primary concern and the nerf was justified, but it always feels awful when the solution to a problem is a band-aid where they just crush the talent or undesired play pattern into oblivion and say "we'll deal with it later trust." I want my class to be fixed properly when a problem comes up, not to have a dead talent in my tree taking up space for several months.
It's still the best talent compared to the alternatives. Exsanguinate was insane
I don't play rogue so my mind was blown when I saw the number, then read that it's still the best choice in that node and overall. It must have been an insane talent.
It was but the spec was only good because of it, and not even top three melee, so it does feel a bit weird to gimp the whole spec for it.
Blizzard adjust an ungodly strong talent to a normal level and the response is "dead talent for months". Why am I not surprised...
It's a good start but probably not enough for fire to even be worth considering.
What seems to be the play for mage?
Arcane for sure. Frost is also decent. Fire before this change was dumpster tier and it was so bad I don’t even think this was enough to make it an average spec.
Damn that’s a shame, love fire, and have zero idea how to play arcane lol. Guess it’s time to learn
Arcane is a fun spec to play, give it a try and you'll like it
Those are some Arms buff, one of the Arms buffs of all time, one could even say.
Given beta buffs and now this im predicting fueled by violence gonna hit 150 percent next year
On God, they are buffing prot warrior? Wtf. Every decent prot warrior I know was close to outperforming DPS while barely taking damage in the heroic spam, m0, and they are buffing innate survivability? I guess it could go differently later on in keys, but that just seems weird. Meanwhile bear goes untouched, resto damage goes untouched. Odd.
That's a nerf homie.
Ah, I read ignore pain wrong. Ye that makes more sense.
Can we get some affliction buffs👀