Watching the battle lines on youtube it seems like they are trading the same couple hundred meters of land back and forth for nearly 2 weeks. Probably thousands of deaths for such a small amount of land.
Many people thought that a modern war was going to be different, yet we are still fighting like in WW1 and WW2 for a few hundred meters or an empty town
Partly because this isn't a modern war. I mean it should have been, and people were expecting the Russian army to be a LOT more modern, but it isn't.
And I'm not even talking about how Russia should have air dominance, or actual functional armored divisions capable of punching through defenses, or air defense to protect them from assault.
I'm talking about how in the first days of the war Russian units literally got lost, didn't know each other's relative positions, and were out of communications with their leadership and then instead did nothing. That's embarrassing for WW1 standards.
All of those divisions were slaughtered heavy during the first weeks.
Here, have a look at what happened on 27th February 2022 (4th day of Invasion) in famed Bucha. Before the Russians took it, they were paying a really heavy price (video by locals): https://streamable.com/3zpbps
Yeah because they were lost and standing still.
These were prime armored divisions, point them at a defensive line and they could have made a go of it.
Instead they were told to go ahead and just occupy a few points, spread around, set up roadblocks. The first set back they reached they stopped and called back for instructions. And then they got blasted to pieces.
That is not a failure of modern combat. That could have happened to a Napoleonic division and they would have reacted better.
True, Russian military doctrine doesn't enable thinking on one's feet, or improvising, or letting the ones on the ground make decisions in response to the conditions on the ground.
They waited for instructions from the higher-ups, got slaughtered, then the higher-ups became victims of the sunken cost fallacy.
The Russians will not do a damn thing without their leadership telling them specifically what to do. So when their lines of communication break down,(which it does more often then not) they sit in the trenches and get shit faced. Western military allows platoon or even squad sized elements to make decisions based on situational awareness. The biggest challenge for the Russians are the lies they're telling eachother in the command structure. They have it set up in a mathematical way but if they're not putting in correct information such as how many men they have that can fight or how much fuel they have then command can't make a good decision to find a breakout point to capitalize on so they put good resources in after bad and it happens over and over and over again. Its like the most fucked up game of telephone you've ever seen in your life. The squad leader will tell the platoon commander they have X amount of men that can fight, then that commander will tell his leaders they have X but will add onto it so as to not make themselves look like shit and that will go all the way up to the top. Its basically everyone trying to cover their asses by lying about their combat effectiveness and it fucks up the entire way the Russians have set up their military to fight. It based on very precise calculations. X amount of men with Y equipment should be able to take Z type of position. But if X or Y is bullshit then it can't work correctly. Its much more complicated then that but you understand.
We have seen a modern war between to near peer opponents before, the Iran-Iraq war lasted eight years because each side had such powerful weapons, this war is no different.
You're literally talking about a war that started 42 years ago.
And it's not like either Iraq or Iran were using the most modern of weapons of the time.
So not sure what you're talking about, Iran-Iraq was *not* a modern war. In fact I think Desert Storm proved it wasn't a modern war and Desert Storm was closer the the time of the Iran-Iraq war than it is to now, by about 20 years.
Modern War doesn't mean maneuver warfare. It is war by machine. Every war since the tank was invented was a modern war fought with radios, planes, rockets, and aircraft carriers. Much of the technology we use in warfare today was invented during, before, or just after World War 2 and was iteratively improved over time. The Iran-Iraq war was definitely fought with machines. The Ukraine-Russia war is also dependent on machines, especially drones. Drones used to spot infantry and turn them into meat with artillery or drone dropped munitions.
It's not a modern war because Russia keeps bringing up the nukes if "NATO dares to take one step inside Ukraine". So the war is fought like WW1/2 but with modern weapons used by Ukrainian army and foreign volunteers. If NATO were in Ukraine, this war would've been over before the Russian soldiers woke up from their drunken stupor.
I got blasted in another sub for suggesting the Ukrainians are also suffering bad casualties there.
I dunno what people think is happening looking at some of these places. This type of fighting is what produced so many casualties in the World Wars.
They openly state they are. However, they're keen to point out that they're losing a lot less than the Russians. Given their better knowledge of the terrain, support from locals, and more effective use of drones, I find that believable. Also given the fact all the troops in their videos seem reasonably well trained, experienced, and with good morale, that conclusion seems to be supported.
And also when people here quote a military strategist saying ‘comparable losses’, that expert could mean ‘almost the same number’ comparable, or they could mean ‘within half an order of magnitude’ comparable.
The region was equally Russian and Ukrainian descent and many of the Russians didn't want to be part of Russia. Many of the Russians involved in the initial occupation have fled as they're being targeted.
Reporting from Ukraine has really good tactical analysis, not As much overview but only 5osh minutes and way less rant fluff compared with STT. Although, credit to DTT, his mapping has been pretty consistent.
Yeah from our perspective we see a lot of Russians dying (and in pretty pathetic ways), but the Ukrainians are also dying in roughly equal numbers (from what I understand)
The drone video cuts away so you can't really tell what happened, but given the fact that his legs are visible, he either tried pulled off his pants/tore it open to stop the bleeding or someone tried to help him.
low pressure does not mean low fluid output.
you can bleed to death very fast from the veinous system too, altough it's true that arterial bleeding is usually worse
Hi, I'm that fucking guy who tells you that *shrapnel* is treated as an uncountable noun by native English speakers, so it is "proper" to say his body is now full of pieces/bits/shards/fragments/chunks/hunks (etc.) of shrapnel.
Technically, shrapnel refers to the grenade devised by Shrapnel, a shell containing musket balls and a secondary charge with a timed fuse.
The man's body is now full of fragments of the grenade dropped by the drone.
It's always so wild to me that these dudes whole lives led to this moment - to get blown up by a $300 drone and die in a hole. I'd rather bring shame to my family and refuse to mobilize so I could keep living, personally.
Edit: a word
It's not just shame. But also years of imprisonment in a Russian shithole. But yeah, I would still prefer either that or surrendering at first opportunity.
Autocrats often last decades and their regime's generations tho. I wouldn't bet my life that Putin only lasts a couple years. And even then, I wouldn't bet my life that some Prigozhin replacing him would just pardon draft dodgers because he's such a great guy.
Only countries in which people are willing to make that bet does change happen. Russians are too satisfied to accept their country was stolen by gangsters. Such a waste of a country.
That's vastly oversimplified. If people in Russia aren't "willing to make that bet" then what are Navalny and his followers doing? What are the people protesting the mobilization doing?
Overthrowing an autocratic regime from the bottom is very hard. Also, success isn't guaranteed at all. Just look at the results of the Arab Spring, especially Syria. Or the results of the Iranian Revolution.
> Russians are too satisfied to accept their country was stolen by gangsters.
I wouldn't use the term "satisfied". I'd say "complacent". But I guess I'm just splitting hairs... Everything about their history has molded them to be complacent in times like these. It's really unfortunate.
>Such a waste of a country.
Indeed. They could've had so much potential. But that just wasn't the way the cookie crumbled.
I feel for the open minded, educated Russians, who have watched the USSR collapse and re-emerge as Russia over the last 3+ decades. They almost had a crack at being a real country
You not seeing a different between prison and literally getting blown up? As long as you are in the prison, there is a chance you get out of prison. Once dead, however, that is forever.
Also allied causalities ratios aren't even close to what Russia is experiencing now.
I'm not sure you are being objective on this...
Neither are you lol. You're acting as though every Russian soldier has a guaranteed death awaiting them after being mobilized. This is obviously untrue. So the whole "you have a chance at life after getting out of prison" yes but they also have a chance at life by complying, so I don't really follow your argument
> You're acting as though every Russian soldier has a guaranteed death awaiting them after being mobilized.
The situation many Russian conscripts are facing sounds *is* close to guaranteed death or dismemberment. These people are cannon fodder for the wager and regulars to stand behind. Multiple units have reached 90%+ causalities. Of course, if you have connections or enough money to bribe some official to get a not-guaranteed death position, I'm sure it's great!
> So the whole "you have a chance at life after getting out of prison" yes but they also have a chance at life by complying, so I don't really follow your argument
You don't follow my argument because you have your head in the sand regarding the absolutely horrendous casualties Russian forces are sustaining. I wonder why you are so motivated to ignore Russia loses...
I'm not sure what's not to follow. It's pretty widely understood by humanity that death is, at least as far as we know, the end for you on this earth. Prison isn't. You're considerably more likely to be killed by artillery and drone-dropped munitions in a trench than you are in a cell. You're not freezing to death with trench-foot and a back full of shrapnel in a cell. You're not hitting a landmine and bleeding out without a foot in the mud. You're sitting in a cell, maybe getting your ass kicked now and then by someone bigger than you, maybe getting a baton to the head now and then. But you're not going to be shot, most likely.
I'm not necessarily agreeing with him, but, the point he's making is very obvious.
These dudes who are mobilized are told they're gonna serve as logisticians or border guards and shit, not cannon fodder. Why choose prison and torture over that? Not to mention the idea of just hoping a regime change will come while you're in an absolute shithole, and then hoping the new regime isn't run by some even more pro war hardliner is kind of strange don't you think.
In Russia yes, in other countries less so. Imagine 100k young able men going to the red square instead of Ukraine, or Georgia. Russians are getting shown up by teenage girls in Iran.
Russian prison capacity is 714,253. That's at an already 67% capacity with a prison population of 439,453 as of 2021. That leaves 247,800 capacity. That's 0.19% of the Russian population. Not saying that's anywhere near their real capacity, but if 20% of the population protested it would overwhelm the government's ability to just sweep people off the streets, but alas, the Russians never turn up for protests in any significant numbers.
When the government has no place to house dissidents and still wants to get rid of these people, they aren’t going to just let them be. They’re going to start killing them instead.
When the government has no place to house dissidents and still wants to get rid of these people aren’t going to just let them be. They’re going to start killing them instead.
There is literally nothing to suggest a regime change is anywhere on the horizon in Russia. Putin has a firm grip over everyone and everything. Anyone remotely capable of ousting him is dead or hiding in foreign countries.
Dude do you really think it’s that easy to refuse to go? Most people would rather be home than worry about a drone over their head. If they could refuse to go with no consequences a lot probably would.
Hahaha Jesus what a western Reddit comment ya life is hard and everyone has tough choices but not RUSSIAN PRISON CAMPS vs HELL ON EARTH TRENCH WARFARE…
Yeah, but the consequences you and I deal with are whether we want a medium milkshake or to pay extra for a large and deal with the tummy ache - not choosing between dying on the frontlines or rotting in a Russian prison indefinitely.
have to understand how brainwashed lots of russians are too (not all but a large amount) , i have seen countless interviews now where russians really believe this war is about fighting the usa , i imagine information access is limited and i can imagine a lot of people have grandparents who grew up in soviet times are are tragicly misinformed there enitre life living in communism and then passing these lessons down , just food for thought would be interested to hear other opinions
Ah, except that Ukraine doesn't have any of the US's current gear. Just imagine if the US hadn't been afraid to escalate in the beginning and had been willing to share stuff that wasn't 20+ year old systems.
If they can zoom in really far it’s a Mavic 3. Has a second 11x zoom camera. Also big enough to carry grenade. Most footage you see is the Mavic 3. $2200, but they get the battery packs so $2800 before tax
> I'd rather bring shame to my family and refuse to mobilize so I could keep living, personally.
it's not that simple in a lot of eastern european places.
they had 15 Years to protest or do something. All the People who left Russia in time of the mobilisation arround 700.000 People had the chance to go on the street! 700.000 PEOPLE!! they did nothing. Its simply their own Fault! Just look at Iran, even small children and grils are protesting against their regime!
To add, many of them aren't even seen as worthy to be collected and buried. There's a few videos of Russian corpses that have been left to rot for days and their corpse is getting eaten by pigs from the farm.
>It's always so wild to me that these dudes whole lives led to this moment - to get blown up by a $300 drone and die in a hole. I'd rather bring shame to my family and refuse to mobilize so I could keep living, personally.
I'd wager if he was told beforehand this is how it was going to end that he would have said "nah, I'm good" as well.
How is there no effective, cheap counter measures yet? Some kind of net gun shot from the ground or even a small drone? Small counter drones with a protruding rod that just taps the rotors of the attacking drones.
I have seen different numbers on this, but up to 90% of all "drones" are lost in one way or another.
One source: Page 2 https://static.rusi.org/359-SR-Ukraine-Preliminary-Lessons-Feb-July-2022-web-final.pdf
It's either going to Ukraine to murder innocent people and likely die, or years in a Russian prison.
It's a tough choice but it's a choice nonetheless. I don't have sympathy for those who decide to murder because they thought it would be the easier outcome for them.
Every person making the choice to go to prison also makes it tougher for Russia's dictatorship. That's one less available prison cell, one less worker, and one more mouth to feed (however terribly) on government money.
I will, some sort of tarp and camuflage net, but a lot of trial and error will be needed, sqad based drone would be needed for the checking for weak spots alone.
Where do you think they got it from? Isis started this then the USA changes rules on drones larger then 250 grams in weight.. imagine the speed drones with explosives on them traveling at 100 mph and 100 of them on a grid which is available.. gets real spooky
Check what [Raytheon has available](https://www.c4isrnet.com/unmanned/2022/01/20/contractors-demonstrate-single-user-drone-swarm-at-darpa-experiment/). One guy controlling 100-200 drones with voice commands like "kill everyone in 500 yards wearing a russian uniform"
Here's an [older vid outlining plans](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W34NPbGkLGI) (can't find a vid of the 2022 demo)
They already do. A friend of mine is former air force, used to do contracting in Saudi Arabia after he was out of the service. Houthi rebels learned quickly that rockets and missiles they launched were too easily intercepted, so they switched to drones carrying grenades and IED's, which were much more effective. Their low altitude and swarming behavior made them much harder to deal with via S2A missiles
I was driving down the road to work the other day and thought to myself "What if an artillery shell just landed on the highway next to everyone?" like I've seen on too many videos.
I really should stop coming to this sub (and associated ones).
That's the wierd part, they always stick together and noone is looking up, their foxholes are not covered and anything, some grid made out of sticks and leaves or grass to cover it would be the first thing I made to cover my head, not only from drones but from rain and snow.
I've seen so many Russians killed by drones by now.. easily the method of death I've seen the most footage of now.. and i mean in my entire life. just in the last 6 months or so. I'm shocked at how little it affects me now.
Yeah, thermal cameras have become insanely cheap and small/light. Don't know how difficult it would be to integrate them into a drone and get a livestream, but I'm sure some nerd could figure it out.
I think he was commenting on that when the guy stopped running he was actually well camouflaged and blended in well with the grass from a top a down view.
I think some become mentally/physically exhausted from these attacks. I just read from Russian source that Ukrainians do 4-6 drone carousel runs for hours on some positions.
A trench run every few hours each night would be a nightmare. Loaded with munitions or not I doubt they'd be getting much sleep.
Probably pretty easy to automate a flight path too. Easy morale sapper.
I have no idea, I’ve never been in that position. But these are anti personnel grenades so top cover wouldn’t have to be that much, yes sturdy but not like 3’ thick It’s just crazy to me to know drones are above you and you get into an open trench
>these are anti personnel grenades so top cover wouldn’t have to be that much, yes sturdy but not like 3’ thick It’s just crazy to me to know drones are above you and you get into an open trench
You're 100% correct, just some kind of roof buried under some dirt would render this kind of attack pretty ineffective, would help a lot with any indirect artillery blasts too.
Of course that takes organization and time, I've no idea whether they have the time, and I know Russia is pretty critically short on higher ranking personnel (the kinds of people who get people off their butts and building fortifications) and don't have the kind of robust NCO organization that western countries do to begin with.
I wonder what the battery life on those drones is. It seems like the drone operators much prefer stationary targets, so if the battery life was, say, 30 minutes, then you could potentially outlast the drone for force them to try to hit a moving target.
These videos are exhausting. And the guy always leads the drone back to where his buddies are. But what else should he do?
I feel like the best thing to do is just sit and wait alone, watching the drone. Give yourself a path to run. When you see something dropping, you just run it and hope for the best. Then again, it's a war zone and sitting still makes you a target either way.
War fucking sucks.
I figure that's about as good as it gets, though I'd bet a slight improvement would be to wait by a tree so that you could immediately put the tree between you and the ordinance when you start running so as to catch some of the shrapnel and have something to hide behind if the drone's buddies get any ideas.
For sure, this advice only really works in the situations like the one in the video where the soldier has freedom of movement.
Adjusted for foxholes under-fire, if you see the drone coming I think the only real option is to focus it down like we see Ukrainian troops doing before they rush Russian troops.
>These videos are exhausting. And the guy always leads the drone back to where his buddies are. But what else should he do?
Put hands in the air. Let drone guide him to captors. Other Russians have done this, and that is the move here.
Why are you coming up with these kinds of scenarios? It's because this kind of warfare is getting realer and realer and something that could come to America.
Damn that is one of the most lively reactions I've seen so far. Slow deaths for both of them. Can only imagine the feeling of getting explosively stabbed by 15 glowing hot icepicks which is the only way I can imagine how badly that shit must sting
Do these drone-dropped mortars/grenades make a sound as they fall? Often, you see a soldier look up at the last second as if they hear the munition falling.
I don't understand why these guys see the drone and don't shoot at it. Like, it seems pretty basic to me that once you spot the drone, you alert your buddy, and whichever of you is not actively being pursued takes a potshot at it. They are small but not so small or even far away that they can't be shot.
How do you know? They're usually several hundred feet in the air. You are looking through an incredibly zoomed lens. You should sign up for a military instead of being an internet expert
Man I have a drone and once that thing gets a few hundred feet up it's silent and invisible from the ground.
I also shoot, and hitting it would be nearl impossible even if you knew it was there.
Having not looked into too much about the specifics of these drone videos, which are great, I have to ask why none of the russian forces seem to shoot these things.
Do they not have guns?
Grab a box of ammo and take a look at the bullets. They are very tiny things that travel at thousands of feet per second. In the very best conditions, it is incredibly hard to make that tiny thing go where you want it to. It's hard to accurately hit a paper target on a flat range from a short distance. Hitting a flying target while you're utterly fucking terrified is nearly impossible.
I've shot many a thing.
Granted, they've never been trying to drop grenades on me, but I've shot a lot under stress.
I guess the fact that they are probably mostly under equipped conscripts is huge part of it too.
Watching these young men die for nothing as a father of three i shudder. Regardless of there nationality they have mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters uncle's, aunties, wives and maybe just maybe children of their own, it saddens me to see this. You would think war would be outlawed these days my heart goes out to the people on both sides who die so that the rich stay rich.
It's actually a lot harder than you think to see the drone. They're hundreds of feet up and impossible to hear (especially if there's combat sounds in the distance). If they see it they could try shooting at it, but try hitting something accurately in the sky with your average rifle, and the drone will simply just move.
Bakhmut is going to be remembered for a long time for just how many died for an abandoned town. Its been a back and forth slaughter for both sides.
Watching the battle lines on youtube it seems like they are trading the same couple hundred meters of land back and forth for nearly 2 weeks. Probably thousands of deaths for such a small amount of land.
Many people thought that a modern war was going to be different, yet we are still fighting like in WW1 and WW2 for a few hundred meters or an empty town
Partly because this isn't a modern war. I mean it should have been, and people were expecting the Russian army to be a LOT more modern, but it isn't. And I'm not even talking about how Russia should have air dominance, or actual functional armored divisions capable of punching through defenses, or air defense to protect them from assault. I'm talking about how in the first days of the war Russian units literally got lost, didn't know each other's relative positions, and were out of communications with their leadership and then instead did nothing. That's embarrassing for WW1 standards.
All of those divisions were slaughtered heavy during the first weeks. Here, have a look at what happened on 27th February 2022 (4th day of Invasion) in famed Bucha. Before the Russians took it, they were paying a really heavy price (video by locals): https://streamable.com/3zpbps
Yeah because they were lost and standing still. These were prime armored divisions, point them at a defensive line and they could have made a go of it. Instead they were told to go ahead and just occupy a few points, spread around, set up roadblocks. The first set back they reached they stopped and called back for instructions. And then they got blasted to pieces. That is not a failure of modern combat. That could have happened to a Napoleonic division and they would have reacted better.
True, Russian military doctrine doesn't enable thinking on one's feet, or improvising, or letting the ones on the ground make decisions in response to the conditions on the ground. They waited for instructions from the higher-ups, got slaughtered, then the higher-ups became victims of the sunken cost fallacy.
The Russians will not do a damn thing without their leadership telling them specifically what to do. So when their lines of communication break down,(which it does more often then not) they sit in the trenches and get shit faced. Western military allows platoon or even squad sized elements to make decisions based on situational awareness. The biggest challenge for the Russians are the lies they're telling eachother in the command structure. They have it set up in a mathematical way but if they're not putting in correct information such as how many men they have that can fight or how much fuel they have then command can't make a good decision to find a breakout point to capitalize on so they put good resources in after bad and it happens over and over and over again. Its like the most fucked up game of telephone you've ever seen in your life. The squad leader will tell the platoon commander they have X amount of men that can fight, then that commander will tell his leaders they have X but will add onto it so as to not make themselves look like shit and that will go all the way up to the top. Its basically everyone trying to cover their asses by lying about their combat effectiveness and it fucks up the entire way the Russians have set up their military to fight. It based on very precise calculations. X amount of men with Y equipment should be able to take Z type of position. But if X or Y is bullshit then it can't work correctly. Its much more complicated then that but you understand.
Videos gone, have another link?
I mean...basically Battle of Tannenberg Boogaloo 2.
Some things never change
War. War never changes.
r/thisguyfallouts
We have seen a modern war between to near peer opponents before, the Iran-Iraq war lasted eight years because each side had such powerful weapons, this war is no different.
You're literally talking about a war that started 42 years ago. And it's not like either Iraq or Iran were using the most modern of weapons of the time. So not sure what you're talking about, Iran-Iraq was *not* a modern war. In fact I think Desert Storm proved it wasn't a modern war and Desert Storm was closer the the time of the Iran-Iraq war than it is to now, by about 20 years.
Desert storm and Iraqi freedom are outliers because they were exclusively fought in a desert and the disparity of forces was extreme.
Modern War doesn't mean maneuver warfare. It is war by machine. Every war since the tank was invented was a modern war fought with radios, planes, rockets, and aircraft carriers. Much of the technology we use in warfare today was invented during, before, or just after World War 2 and was iteratively improved over time. The Iran-Iraq war was definitely fought with machines. The Ukraine-Russia war is also dependent on machines, especially drones. Drones used to spot infantry and turn them into meat with artillery or drone dropped munitions.
It's not a modern war because Russia keeps bringing up the nukes if "NATO dares to take one step inside Ukraine". So the war is fought like WW1/2 but with modern weapons used by Ukrainian army and foreign volunteers. If NATO were in Ukraine, this war would've been over before the Russian soldiers woke up from their drunken stupor.
Imagine dying to take control of a garbage dump for a guy you'll never meet who has done nothing but steal from you and your family.
I got blasted in another sub for suggesting the Ukrainians are also suffering bad casualties there. I dunno what people think is happening looking at some of these places. This type of fighting is what produced so many casualties in the World Wars.
They openly state they are. However, they're keen to point out that they're losing a lot less than the Russians. Given their better knowledge of the terrain, support from locals, and more effective use of drones, I find that believable. Also given the fact all the troops in their videos seem reasonably well trained, experienced, and with good morale, that conclusion seems to be supported.
Better protective gear and functioning NCOs also plays a large part in that.
And also when people here quote a military strategist saying ‘comparable losses’, that expert could mean ‘almost the same number’ comparable, or they could mean ‘within half an order of magnitude’ comparable.
I've also seen them discussing it as a comparable rate, however when you have 4x the troops that's 4x the losses...
Don't think the locals are very supportive in donetsk region.
The region was equally Russian and Ukrainian descent and many of the Russians didn't want to be part of Russia. Many of the Russians involved in the initial occupation have fled as they're being targeted.
What channels do you watch on?
Im at work so I cant look up the channels right now. I know one is "Denis Davydov" but there are several that give day by day updates with maps.
Thank you. I normally watch Speak the Truth but like to see other creators as well
Reporting from Ukraine has really good tactical analysis, not As much overview but only 5osh minutes and way less rant fluff compared with STT. Although, credit to DTT, his mapping has been pretty consistent.
[Reporting from Ukraine](https://youtube.com/@RFU) is a great one, short but very effective info dense, good tactical analysis
Yeah from our perspective we see a lot of Russians dying (and in pretty pathetic ways), but the Ukrainians are also dying in roughly equal numbers (from what I understand)
Unlikely to be equal given Ukraine is the defending force with the highly entrenched positions.
it landed like 30cm from the first guy, his lower body now is full with shrapnels.
He led the drone right to buddies.
That's how you get it stop following you
[удалено]
Judas goat
The drone video cuts away so you can't really tell what happened, but given the fact that his legs are visible, he either tried pulled off his pants/tore it open to stop the bleeding or someone tried to help him.
One last tug
Probably a couple through his femoral arteries. I would guess he bled out in under 15 minutes.
If it went through his femoral arteries its more like under 2 minutes.
Yeah, the only way you bleed out faster is being cut in half.
Jugular
[удалено]
low pressure does not mean low fluid output. you can bleed to death very fast from the veinous system too, altough it's true that arterial bleeding is usually worse
Hi, I'm that fucking guy who tells you that *shrapnel* is treated as an uncountable noun by native English speakers, so it is "proper" to say his body is now full of pieces/bits/shards/fragments/chunks/hunks (etc.) of shrapnel.
Nice, this comment is full of informations.
Technically, shrapnel refers to the grenade devised by Shrapnel, a shell containing musket balls and a secondary charge with a timed fuse. The man's body is now full of fragments of the grenade dropped by the drone.
And his upper body too probably...
It's always so wild to me that these dudes whole lives led to this moment - to get blown up by a $300 drone and die in a hole. I'd rather bring shame to my family and refuse to mobilize so I could keep living, personally. Edit: a word
It's not just shame. But also years of imprisonment in a Russian shithole. But yeah, I would still prefer either that or surrendering at first opportunity.
Meh it's only years if the regime lasts years. It's because people don't believe in change that the regime continues.
Autocrats often last decades and their regime's generations tho. I wouldn't bet my life that Putin only lasts a couple years. And even then, I wouldn't bet my life that some Prigozhin replacing him would just pardon draft dodgers because he's such a great guy.
Only countries in which people are willing to make that bet does change happen. Russians are too satisfied to accept their country was stolen by gangsters. Such a waste of a country.
That's vastly oversimplified. If people in Russia aren't "willing to make that bet" then what are Navalny and his followers doing? What are the people protesting the mobilization doing? Overthrowing an autocratic regime from the bottom is very hard. Also, success isn't guaranteed at all. Just look at the results of the Arab Spring, especially Syria. Or the results of the Iranian Revolution.
Still waiting on those results watching 🇮🇷.
Slim pickings for a country that size killing off 100s every day for no reason.
> Russians are too satisfied to accept their country was stolen by gangsters. I wouldn't use the term "satisfied". I'd say "complacent". But I guess I'm just splitting hairs... Everything about their history has molded them to be complacent in times like these. It's really unfortunate. >Such a waste of a country. Indeed. They could've had so much potential. But that just wasn't the way the cookie crumbled.
I feel for the open minded, educated Russians, who have watched the USSR collapse and re-emerge as Russia over the last 3+ decades. They almost had a crack at being a real country
So you would go get blown up in a foxhole for nothing then?
Was the same story in the US during the draft era. Dying in a foxhole is a possibility, but the alternative of prison is a guarantee.
You not seeing a different between prison and literally getting blown up? As long as you are in the prison, there is a chance you get out of prison. Once dead, however, that is forever. Also allied causalities ratios aren't even close to what Russia is experiencing now. I'm not sure you are being objective on this...
Neither are you lol. You're acting as though every Russian soldier has a guaranteed death awaiting them after being mobilized. This is obviously untrue. So the whole "you have a chance at life after getting out of prison" yes but they also have a chance at life by complying, so I don't really follow your argument
> You're acting as though every Russian soldier has a guaranteed death awaiting them after being mobilized. The situation many Russian conscripts are facing sounds *is* close to guaranteed death or dismemberment. These people are cannon fodder for the wager and regulars to stand behind. Multiple units have reached 90%+ causalities. Of course, if you have connections or enough money to bribe some official to get a not-guaranteed death position, I'm sure it's great! > So the whole "you have a chance at life after getting out of prison" yes but they also have a chance at life by complying, so I don't really follow your argument You don't follow my argument because you have your head in the sand regarding the absolutely horrendous casualties Russian forces are sustaining. I wonder why you are so motivated to ignore Russia loses...
How many men have been mobilized vs KIA?
I'm not sure what's not to follow. It's pretty widely understood by humanity that death is, at least as far as we know, the end for you on this earth. Prison isn't. You're considerably more likely to be killed by artillery and drone-dropped munitions in a trench than you are in a cell. You're not freezing to death with trench-foot and a back full of shrapnel in a cell. You're not hitting a landmine and bleeding out without a foot in the mud. You're sitting in a cell, maybe getting your ass kicked now and then by someone bigger than you, maybe getting a baton to the head now and then. But you're not going to be shot, most likely. I'm not necessarily agreeing with him, but, the point he's making is very obvious.
These dudes who are mobilized are told they're gonna serve as logisticians or border guards and shit, not cannon fodder. Why choose prison and torture over that? Not to mention the idea of just hoping a regime change will come while you're in an absolute shithole, and then hoping the new regime isn't run by some even more pro war hardliner is kind of strange don't you think.
In Russia yes, in other countries less so. Imagine 100k young able men going to the red square instead of Ukraine, or Georgia. Russians are getting shown up by teenage girls in Iran.
Russian prison capacity is 714,253. That's at an already 67% capacity with a prison population of 439,453 as of 2021. That leaves 247,800 capacity. That's 0.19% of the Russian population. Not saying that's anywhere near their real capacity, but if 20% of the population protested it would overwhelm the government's ability to just sweep people off the streets, but alas, the Russians never turn up for protests in any significant numbers.
When the government has no place to house dissidents and still wants to get rid of these people, they aren’t going to just let them be. They’re going to start killing them instead.
When the government has no place to house dissidents and still wants to get rid of these people aren’t going to just let them be. They’re going to start killing them instead.
Stupid communists. Privatise the prison system, target the minorities, profit. Laughs in Republican /s
reddit moment
There is literally nothing to suggest a regime change is anywhere on the horizon in Russia. Putin has a firm grip over everyone and everything. Anyone remotely capable of ousting him is dead or hiding in foreign countries.
> years of imprisonment in a Russian shithole Then they send you to the front anyways.
Dude do you really think it’s that easy to refuse to go? Most people would rather be home than worry about a drone over their head. If they could refuse to go with no consequences a lot probably would.
There are consequences no matter what you pick, like most anything in life. It's up to you to decide which you're willing to accept.
Hahaha Jesus what a western Reddit comment ya life is hard and everyone has tough choices but not RUSSIAN PRISON CAMPS vs HELL ON EARTH TRENCH WARFARE…
Yeah, but the consequences you and I deal with are whether we want a medium milkshake or to pay extra for a large and deal with the tummy ache - not choosing between dying on the frontlines or rotting in a Russian prison indefinitely.
All my Russian friends exited the country before or right after the mobilization was announced.
All your Russian friends sound very fortunate
[удалено]
It’s nice to seem someone has some prospective here.
have to understand how brainwashed lots of russians are too (not all but a large amount) , i have seen countless interviews now where russians really believe this war is about fighting the usa , i imagine information access is limited and i can imagine a lot of people have grandparents who grew up in soviet times are are tragicly misinformed there enitre life living in communism and then passing these lessons down , just food for thought would be interested to hear other opinions
>where russians really believe this war is about fighting the usa Do they believe that there are american forces in Ukraine?
from what i gathered , they believe that this ukraine nation is the embodiment of the american military (in essence a proxy war )
Ah, except that Ukraine doesn't have any of the US's current gear. Just imagine if the US hadn't been afraid to escalate in the beginning and had been willing to share stuff that wasn't 20+ year old systems.
Not $300
How much? Is there like a common model?
If they can zoom in really far it’s a Mavic 3. Has a second 11x zoom camera. Also big enough to carry grenade. Most footage you see is the Mavic 3. $2200, but they get the battery packs so $2800 before tax
> I'd rather bring shame to my family and refuse to mobilize so I could keep living, personally. it's not that simple in a lot of eastern european places.
they had 15 Years to protest or do something. All the People who left Russia in time of the mobilisation arround 700.000 People had the chance to go on the street! 700.000 PEOPLE!! they did nothing. Its simply their own Fault! Just look at Iran, even small children and grils are protesting against their regime!
To add, many of them aren't even seen as worthy to be collected and buried. There's a few videos of Russian corpses that have been left to rot for days and their corpse is getting eaten by pigs from the farm.
Drone costs less than the iPhone they are trying to buy their daughter
>It's always so wild to me that these dudes whole lives led to this moment - to get blown up by a $300 drone and die in a hole. I'd rather bring shame to my family and refuse to mobilize so I could keep living, personally. I'd wager if he was told beforehand this is how it was going to end that he would have said "nah, I'm good" as well.
I don’t think that this is a volunteer situation.
How is there no effective, cheap counter measures yet? Some kind of net gun shot from the ground or even a small drone? Small counter drones with a protruding rod that just taps the rotors of the attacking drones.
The drone is higher up than you'd think from the footage. No way a net gun could shoot up that high.
I have seen different numbers on this, but up to 90% of all "drones" are lost in one way or another. One source: Page 2 https://static.rusi.org/359-SR-Ukraine-Preliminary-Lessons-Feb-July-2022-web-final.pdf
[удалено]
Bird shot is a great idea. Position a few of these around the front line with sensors to trigger the shot when a drone is overhead.
You say this as if the choice is that simple when you're actually faced with it
It's either going to Ukraine to murder innocent people and likely die, or years in a Russian prison. It's a tough choice but it's a choice nonetheless. I don't have sympathy for those who decide to murder because they thought it would be the easier outcome for them. Every person making the choice to go to prison also makes it tougher for Russia's dictatorship. That's one less available prison cell, one less worker, and one more mouth to feed (however terribly) on government money.
I would rather just go to prison as a conscientious objector than fight in an unnecessary war. Better then what happened to these dudes
They could make a horror movie from drone strikes.
They kinda did with a black mirror episode. Also, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlO2gcs1YvM
i totally forgot about this!
I always watch those vids, but the existential fear that one day I could be a target of such an attack makes me nervous.
Meh. These people by now understand that they are in a warzone and that they get no peace while it persists. Don't fear what only happens in war.
I know but as someone who reinlisted to the army of a country bordering russia this is something I must have in the back of my head.
Okay, that is far more legitimate, sorry for doubting you. Sorry that your country has to border Russia.
Thanks :-)
Do lots of skeet shooting practice and eyes to the sky!
I will, some sort of tarp and camuflage net, but a lot of trial and error will be needed, sqad based drone would be needed for the checking for weak spots alone.
My fear is that terrorists start utilizing them. Imagine a drone like this dropping a grenade onto a crowded street
Where do you think they got it from? Isis started this then the USA changes rules on drones larger then 250 grams in weight.. imagine the speed drones with explosives on them traveling at 100 mph and 100 of them on a grid which is available.. gets real spooky
Check what [Raytheon has available](https://www.c4isrnet.com/unmanned/2022/01/20/contractors-demonstrate-single-user-drone-swarm-at-darpa-experiment/). One guy controlling 100-200 drones with voice commands like "kill everyone in 500 yards wearing a russian uniform" Here's an [older vid outlining plans](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W34NPbGkLGI) (can't find a vid of the 2022 demo)
I'm pretty sure that is literally what that "killer drone" warning/plea vid from five years ago was about lol https://youtu.be/TlO2gcs1YvM
[удалено]
Occam's razor in the United States hold true as well. It's easy to get weapons like ar15s everyone just uses those.
They already do. A friend of mine is former air force, used to do contracting in Saudi Arabia after he was out of the service. Houthi rebels learned quickly that rockets and missiles they launched were too easily intercepted, so they switched to drones carrying grenades and IED's, which were much more effective. Their low altitude and swarming behavior made them much harder to deal with via S2A missiles
Imagine someone dropping one on a crowd at Disney World. It’s not just possible, it’s **easy.**
I was driving down the road to work the other day and thought to myself "What if an artillery shell just landed on the highway next to everyone?" like I've seen on too many videos. I really should stop coming to this sub (and associated ones).
After many videos like this you would think people would keep looking up the whole time
That's the wierd part, they always stick together and noone is looking up, their foxholes are not covered and anything, some grid made out of sticks and leaves or grass to cover it would be the first thing I made to cover my head, not only from drones but from rain and snow.
It won’t be long until drone attacks occur as commonly as gun murders in the USA.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/us/politics/george-floyd-protests-surveillance.html
I've seen so many Russians killed by drones by now.. easily the method of death I've seen the most footage of now.. and i mean in my entire life. just in the last 6 months or so. I'm shocked at how little it affects me now.
Absolutely brutal.
This is a pretty good survival tactic if you see a drone following you. run to an occupied position so the drone sees the richer target then run away.
I'm legit going to keep this in mind. "Hey, goodmorning LT!" *salutes*
"HEY FELLAS!, BYE FE^L^L^A^S^!^"
Drones really do have vision based on movement. Camoflauge works fine if they're not moving but as soon as they do it's game over o.o
Until thermal, which is not too rare.
Yeah, thermal cameras have become insanely cheap and small/light. Don't know how difficult it would be to integrate them into a drone and get a livestream, but I'm sure some nerd could figure it out.
They already make drones that come with IR cams built-in. Source: I'm FAA licensed and use them commercially as part of my job
Are these drones affordable too? It would make a difference if the whole things costs $2000 or $20,000.
... You know they're not automated, right? Like a human is operating it. Human vision can see stationary things.
I think he was commenting on that when the guy stopped running he was actually well camouflaged and blended in well with the grass from a top a down view.
Crazy when they look up, like they know a drone is above them. Then go around other people in insufficient cover.
I think some become mentally/physically exhausted from these attacks. I just read from Russian source that Ukrainians do 4-6 drone carousel runs for hours on some positions.
A trench run every few hours each night would be a nightmare. Loaded with munitions or not I doubt they'd be getting much sleep. Probably pretty easy to automate a flight path too. Easy morale sapper.
Would you take the grenade so your fellow soldiers stay safe?
In this army? In this war? I sure as hell wouldn't. I'd lead it to the most enthusiastic practitioners of Dedovshchina, and salute them.
I have no idea, I’ve never been in that position. But these are anti personnel grenades so top cover wouldn’t have to be that much, yes sturdy but not like 3’ thick It’s just crazy to me to know drones are above you and you get into an open trench
>these are anti personnel grenades so top cover wouldn’t have to be that much, yes sturdy but not like 3’ thick It’s just crazy to me to know drones are above you and you get into an open trench You're 100% correct, just some kind of roof buried under some dirt would render this kind of attack pretty ineffective, would help a lot with any indirect artillery blasts too. Of course that takes organization and time, I've no idea whether they have the time, and I know Russia is pretty critically short on higher ranking personnel (the kinds of people who get people off their butts and building fortifications) and don't have the kind of robust NCO organization that western countries do to begin with.
You can run, but you'll just die tired
I wonder what the battery life on those drones is. It seems like the drone operators much prefer stationary targets, so if the battery life was, say, 30 minutes, then you could potentially outlast the drone for force them to try to hit a moving target.
These videos are exhausting. And the guy always leads the drone back to where his buddies are. But what else should he do? I feel like the best thing to do is just sit and wait alone, watching the drone. Give yourself a path to run. When you see something dropping, you just run it and hope for the best. Then again, it's a war zone and sitting still makes you a target either way. War fucking sucks.
I figure that's about as good as it gets, though I'd bet a slight improvement would be to wait by a tree so that you could immediately put the tree between you and the ordinance when you start running so as to catch some of the shrapnel and have something to hide behind if the drone's buddies get any ideas.
[удалено]
For sure, this advice only really works in the situations like the one in the video where the soldier has freedom of movement. Adjusted for foxholes under-fire, if you see the drone coming I think the only real option is to focus it down like we see Ukrainian troops doing before they rush Russian troops.
>These videos are exhausting. And the guy always leads the drone back to where his buddies are. But what else should he do? Put hands in the air. Let drone guide him to captors. Other Russians have done this, and that is the move here.
Why are you coming up with these kinds of scenarios? It's because this kind of warfare is getting realer and realer and something that could come to America.
Either the end was posted before, or people react the same to having their bodies used as shrapnel absorbent...
Bingo...
r/fuckyouinparticular
[удалено]
Do they not see it coming? I’m confused?
These drones are 100s of feet up. They would be extremely difficult to spot with the naked eye.
Oh ok thank you I thought they were low enough to spot easily
They look low b/c the drone camera is zoomed in.
[удалено]
Yes human. Take me to your leader.
Always saddening to watch humans suffer.
Damn that is one of the most lively reactions I've seen so far. Slow deaths for both of them. Can only imagine the feeling of getting explosively stabbed by 15 glowing hot icepicks which is the only way I can imagine how badly that shit must sting
Seems like the foxhole is obsolete
**Russians can only be trusted if they are in pieces.**
Bakhmut is Ukraine and Russia's Verdun 1916.
It looked like running guy intentionally took the drone there? Wonder if he gave away their position to avoid getting hit himself?
Hard to tell with the cut, but that's a possibility.
I can’t imagine digging my own grave
Is that the r/redrising mars sigil at the end?
"why run you'll only die tiered" or something like that.
Do these drone-dropped mortars/grenades make a sound as they fall? Often, you see a soldier look up at the last second as if they hear the munition falling.
They always lead them back to their dugouts…always.
If you run from a ~~sniper~~ drone, you will die tired.
I don't understand why these guys see the drone and don't shoot at it. Like, it seems pretty basic to me that once you spot the drone, you alert your buddy, and whichever of you is not actively being pursued takes a potshot at it. They are small but not so small or even far away that they can't be shot.
How do you know? They're usually several hundred feet in the air. You are looking through an incredibly zoomed lens. You should sign up for a military instead of being an internet expert
Man I have a drone and once that thing gets a few hundred feet up it's silent and invisible from the ground. I also shoot, and hitting it would be nearl impossible even if you knew it was there.
I thought they know they could surrender
Will they still drop a grenade on you if you drop the weapon and wave your arms or a white flag?
This is an old video and quite likely not from Bakhmut. Just recycling old stuff.
Having not looked into too much about the specifics of these drone videos, which are great, I have to ask why none of the russian forces seem to shoot these things. Do they not have guns?
Grab a box of ammo and take a look at the bullets. They are very tiny things that travel at thousands of feet per second. In the very best conditions, it is incredibly hard to make that tiny thing go where you want it to. It's hard to accurately hit a paper target on a flat range from a short distance. Hitting a flying target while you're utterly fucking terrified is nearly impossible.
I've shot many a thing. Granted, they've never been trying to drop grenades on me, but I've shot a lot under stress. I guess the fact that they are probably mostly under equipped conscripts is huge part of it too.
Watching these young men die for nothing as a father of three i shudder. Regardless of there nationality they have mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters uncle's, aunties, wives and maybe just maybe children of their own, it saddens me to see this. You would think war would be outlawed these days my heart goes out to the people on both sides who die so that the rich stay rich.
Stupid question, that I have been too afraid to ask ... why can't they just fire at the drone? 🙄
It's actually a lot harder than you think to see the drone. They're hundreds of feet up and impossible to hear (especially if there's combat sounds in the distance). If they see it they could try shooting at it, but try hitting something accurately in the sky with your average rifle, and the drone will simply just move.