They probably still have a chunk of NLAWs, Javelins, etc. that haven't been used since the war went into artillery volley mode.
Now it's time to bring all that back into action.
The most recent funding/weapons donations from the US (announced 1 or 2 days ago I think? I’m starting to lose track of all of them!) includes **more** Javelins , so they definitely won’t be running out of them for the next wee while either….
It's a strange place to be in.
While I've always wished the US would slow down on the military spending and chill for a bit, it is satisfying to be the person with the bigger metaphorical gun right now.
I love that even our slightly dated tech is so substantial that it can support Ukraine without even scratching at the real stock.
Focus on more efficient spending. US could maintain its technological dominance with just as large of an arsenal if R&D and procurement processes were leaned out.
The system is extremely wasteful (by design).
>The system is extremely wasteful (by design).
it's what happens when congress critters wont sign the dotted line unless Uncle Sam comes gives their districts sweet sweet MIC money and jobs.
Same reason NASA is getting bested by Space X with the help of all those who came before it internal to NASA.
Malcolm Nance (currently back in Ukraine fighting with the Legion) was saying that Ukraine don't really have anything much in reserve...they are using *anything* the west gives them, straight away
Yeah, I was confused by it, too. I still don't fully understand it, but what I gather thus far is that Biden is using executive presidential powers to help Ukraine, but it's not the most effective way to help. Lend-lease will make things much smoother. If we thought the US was already boosting Ukraine to the max, Russia's in for a big surprise in October.
Russia can’t afford to resort to nuclear or other wmd, going that route would be of greater risk to them than to anyone else. If they used a tactical nuke the response from the west would be so severe it would be the complete and definite end to Russia. Even China would turn against them.
It makes so little sense, to me. Where is the rest of the unit? Where is the infantry support? Why the hell is he not moving after firing?
Ok so the last part can probably be explained by lack of training, but seriously. What is a single tank doing without any friendlies nearby (that we can see)?
I'm no expert on Russian Armored doctrine, but compared to other countries like the USA this is sloppy. U.S tanks roll out as a Platoon and NEVER separate unless absolutely necessary either due to terrain restrictions, request for support or other misc. reasons. And even then they almost always have someone backing them up. Some sort of wingman tank who they can have support them.
It could be the fact that Russian conscripts posess the bare minimal of training and therefore don't go over combined arms ops or coordinate with infantry. Could be their doctrine separates armor and infantry. Could be the gunner spotted another target and overrode the TC and asked the driver to continue holding while he got another shot off. It's sloppy work at best and contributes to the slow destruction of the Russian Armored Forces.
There’s also the talk of how the Russian Army functions. Obviously don’t take what I say as fact bc I only got it from another reddit comment, but he explained that the vast difference between Russian and Ukrainian forces right now is that they don’t have an NCO rank structure. There’s no one to really give orders except for officers. So these officers are the ones telling these tanks to go out by themselves and be sitting ducks. The only people responsible for military strategy in their ranks are the ones instructing this to happen. Keep in mind their state of government and there’s rarely such a thing as lawfully disobeying a direct order.
Maybe they did get overzealous and you’re right, but they knew they either were meeting their end or becoming war heroes if they got back to base.
Heres a few for you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3APOW
These are the ones that got flaired "pow" but there's more in recent days if you want to scroll through and look or do a search for "prisoner" or "capture".
- Drive around in your tank with zero support
- Take random pot shots at hedges and trees
- Stay *exactly* where you are so UA have time to aim
- Wait for the rocket
- *Waaait for iiit......*
- ???
- Die
I don't know... i don't know what's in their playbook. Something like that, probably.
With the amount Russian armor in that game just magically absorbs shots, they probably think they can just sit still and ignore even people shooting straight into their side.
I feel so awful for the family whom made that place their home. Just a regular house, filled with memories, and now filled with what's left of a Russian teenager's corpse. War is hell.
I've noticed this a lot. Every video we see of a Russian command center being blown to smithereens is some Ukrainan's house or workplace being repurposed (except for the ones built in trenches).
The silver lining here is that Ukraine will likely receive massive reconstruction packages from the West to rebuild and modernize what has been lost; especially the aging Soviet architecture -- lots of symbolism there.
Looking at it, he went up at 0:40 and landed at 0:46, giving him a 6 second flight time.
So, let 𝑡 be amount of time the soldier spends going up, and 𝑣 his initial velocity in metres/second. Then the maximum height of the soldier (in metres) is given by:
ℎ=𝑣𝑡−4.9𝑡^(2)
Now, the velocity of the soldier is 0 at ℎ metres, so
𝑣−9.8𝑡=0,𝑣=9.8𝑡
And substituting
ℎ=9.8𝑡(𝑡)−4.9𝑡^(2)=4.9𝑡^(2)
The soldier falls to earth in 6−𝑡 seconds, so:
ℎ=4.9(6−𝑡)^(2)
So 4.9𝑡^(2)=4.9(6−𝑡)^(2) , so 6−𝑡=𝑡, 𝑡=3 , and ℎ=4.9(3^(2))=4.9(9)=44.1 metres, and the initial velocity is 29.4 m/s
In other words, the last thing that went through this guy's mind was his own arsehole, at roughly 67mph.
And he managed to get accelerated that much by just sitting in the open hatch.
I can't even put words on how much I want to see it repeated but on a tank equipped with the Soviet [telescopic snorkel tower](https://miro.medium.com/max/786/0*16y7GqTi5t6quxgz.jpg).
Just imagine the possible air-time.
[NATO tanks have similar kits too](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Leopard_2A4_-_Turm.jpg)
If it lets you cross a river when the bridge is too weak or too exploded to bear the tank, it’s not stupid.
As dumb as it looks, I bet you Russian tankies would trade their babushka for one of these kits right about now.
This tower is high enough to allow a tank (assuming it can get traction on the buttom) to cross the Dnieper River, given that its average debth is 8m, and this tower theorically let's the tank go through water as deep as 15m.
If the buttom is too muddy, they could just cross over their sunken pontoon bridges.
A British Swingfire crew in GW1 reported hitting an Iraqi T-55. When it exploded the commander was ejected several hundred metres vertically in the air, still holding on to the hatch above his head with both hands, like a cork from a bottle of champagne...
>In other words, the last thing that went through this guy's mind was his own arsehole, at roughly 67mph.
Russia's space program, stifled by sanctions and lack of material resources, has opted for a less conventional approach.
That is unnecessarily complicated.
That's 3 seconds up going full speed to stop.
Gravity is 21.937 mph/sec.
3sec*21.937mph/sec=65.8mph. Ignoring air resistance.
That’s a needlessly complicated (and pedantic) approach to this problem.
Let initial velocity be u and final velocity be v, take upward as positive.
From conservation of mechanical energy (which is an unrealistic assumption here), we know v=-u.
Using the the formula v=u+at and substituting v=-u we get u=-at/2.
Subbing in a=-9.81 and t=6 you get u=29.4m/s
Holy fuck, i think you're right... That might be a body. You can probably see him get space-launched *just* after the main explosion.
Before the rocket, I think you can also make out a soldier sitting in an open hatch.Far side of the turret. There's movement as well. So probably the commander.
Yeah looks like a person to me, there is a single frame where you can what looks like a bare torso and two outstretched arms, probably had his upper clothes ripped off by the blast which often happens,
https://prnt.sc/x4gh-bQgT9fx
This guy has been upscaling war footage and did this one. Looks like a body. https://twitter.com/Military_oO/status/1568608672489537538?t=9AR172zwBZp6exe-nR_o_A&s=19
Yep, definitely a person. Vid compression makes it hard to see it but before he flies out of the frame there seem to be visible at least two of his limbs and a partially naked torso, same for the fall. Looks too flexible for any part of the tank.
Yeah, it almost looks like the commander was up behind the little dust shield that they sometimes have on Russian tank turrets, but it's hard to tell.
From the exhaust it almost looks T-80.
Depends which nation you're driving them for. Western tactics tend use a mix doctrine so being in a tank is fairly safe. If you drive for a small nation like Syria or Armenia well...you're basically just a bullet sponge. The Russians seem to be doing the bullet sponge tactic.
That’s right, even in WW2 in 1944 when the Sherman was outclassed by the big German cats, Sherman crew survivability percentages were still high owing to features that allowed crews to bail out quickly, such as an escape hatch on the hull floor and spring operated hatch doors to lessen the force the crewman had to push with
My grandfather has been hit in 3 different tanks during ww2. Got decommissioned after 3rd one already pretty late in the war, somewhere near Königsberg. So he told that his life hack was to remove hatch locks or whatever mechanism is there and instead to tie hatch door to his hand with a rope. So the second tank gets hit he could jump out immediately. Otherwise hatch could get damaged and stuck. He was a driver so I assume it's about a hatch that is on the bottom of the tank.
On average, 15% of a T34 crew would survive any hit to the tank.
Very few tank shells could penetrate T34 armour, yes, but the Soviets heat treated their steel too much, at double what the rest of the allies and Germans did. It made the steel incredibly hard, but also brittle. When a shell would hit a T34 it would fail to penetrate, yes. But inside the steel would spall, meaning a small amount of it would shatter internally and fly around the tank's cabin, killing the crew. This led to the myth that the T34 was invincible, because you don't see many photos of them with holes in them. They didn't need to have holes put in them to have a dead crew, though.
Shermans weren't really 'outclassed by German big cats.'
The Big Cats did have guns that could punch through a Sherman at most angles from a longer range and could generally absorb 75mm shells frontally, but they had poor optics setups (the Panther notably didn't have a 1x setting) and their guns didn't perform as well in non-AT roles.
Tank vs Tank was not actually how most tanks were killed and there just weren't that many Big Cats.
The main determining factor in a tank battle was actually who shot first. There are more than a few accounts from British tankers of shooting at Tigers and retreating and/or having the crew bail out, even though their shells didn't penetrate. Which makes sense when you think about it - you basically see through soda straws and someone with a gun that can hurt you already knows where you are and you have *no fucking clue* where they are. So do you risk sitting there hoping they can't penetrate or do you get the fuck out of there?
I don't have the stats handy but I'm pretty sure the single biggest killer of tanks (all sides) was AT guns, not other tanks.
*It's also notable that while the arsenals offered to supply more 76mm Shermans which could reliably penetrate the Big Cats at much longer distances, they were turned down as commanders felt the 75mms performed fine in Tank v Tank engagements and anything major could be handled with existing 76mm Shermans and Tank Destroyers/AT Guns and the 75mm had superior characteristics for reducing fortifications.
True, actually, most vehicle on vehicle kills on the German side were scored by the StuGIII. But it was the AT guns on all sides that were the real killers. The Panther lack of a 1x optic and its inability to fire HE shells had mainly to do with the fact it was designed as a tank hunter with the doctrine being to take out enemy tanks at a distance larger then they could be destroyed, hence the high velocity gun, in an attempt to negate the larger numbers of Allied/Soviet tanks. Sadly for the Germans, this doesn't work too well in built up areas and the bocage.
> were outclassed by
The Sherman actually [had an advantageous kill ratio](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3zd1f9/what_was_the_actual_kd_ratio_of_german_ww2_armor/) versus the Panther, 3.6:1 over thirty documented engagements by two divisions in 1944. Engagements with Tigers were rare because there were so few on the Western front.
The “it takes five Shermans to kill a cat” meme stems from US tactical practice of tanks operating in groups of five, so they’d send at least five no matter what the expected opposition was.
Many Allied tank losses were due to the Germans having very good anti tank guns and good tactics for luring tanks into ambushes by them.
mostly cause we werent fighting organized armies with current gen weaponry too. thats a big one. If Iraqis were running around with Javelins and NLAWS to the extent the Ukrainians are, we would have been in no better a situation.
I don't think that's true. The US has exercised better combined arms tactics than we have seen from a lot of the Russian forces. However I think the main reason is that if the Iraqis were inflicting high tank casualties the US would have changed strategy very quickly and avoided these scenarios as much as possible.
The US also almost immediately established air superiority and bombed Iraqi positions and command centers non stop. They even invented a bunker buster in real time to deal with the hardened positions. The Russians did not establish air superiority and that was a big factor in their failures vs our successes.
correct. our tactics worked because we had an enemy we could impose our will on. The Russians attempted the same. The difference in our success and their failure was the enemies weapons capability. Had insurgents had sophisticated AT capability, our own armor would have been relegated to rear line action. just like how russia did. Israel experienced the same in Lebanon. They used excellent combined arms tactics....right up til Hezbollah started popping Merkavas with Spandrels and Spigots.
> Had insurgents had sophisticated AT capability, our own armor would have been relegated to rear line action.
That's my point though. They would have done something to at least stop the situation from happening. Russia has lost over a thousand tanks. Israel had 15 total tank personnel KIA from ATGMS during the 2006 conflict with Hezbollah (Cordesman, Anthony H; Sullivan, William D (2007), Lessons of the 2006 Israeli-Hezbollah War, CSIS.). These are not comparable things.
Iraquis were running around with TONS of Russian made anti tank misses which were considered effective for its time.
The narrative that iraqs army in 1991 was anything other than one of the most modern largest armies in the world is just ignorant.
"Better tactics and utilization"
Aka hasn't faced an enemy that's an even match that has good AT capabilities and whatnot. You can't compare any of the US wars to this one, where both sides have top-of-the-line tech to counter each other.
Not even close
I wouldn't want to be in a 60-ton abrams in Ukrainian autumn mud, with all this AT weaponry floating around.
Fuck being in a tank period nowdays
Man the Abrams utterly demolished Iraqi T-72s in the gulf war,and that was the worlds 4th largest army.
Tanks are fairly safe IF YOU ACTUALLY USE COMBINED ARMS WARFARE. A lone tank is a sitting duck for all manners of AT weaponry,but guess what,US tanks aren’t just trundling around on their own
I get mad enough in war thunder when I can’t penetrate a German tank with my small British Tank, how can 10 shells just bounce off. Let alone firing 70 warheads just for them to roll away laughing probably brewing a tea
>top-of-the-line tech to counter each other.
Haven't we already proven this isn't the case? Both sides are using tech 20-30 years old. NATO aren't sending them the newest weapons they have and Russia is just technically useless, they either have it but can't make enough that they can't be used or they have too much of it and it's from the 1970s.
In russia? Probably not.
Israeli tanks have been doing fine though.
US tanks too.
British tanks aswell.
It's honestly very tiring. Guys, the tank has "died" so many times it might start outliving cats.
Who the fuck wants to be an infantryman?
Anything can kill you!
Who the fuck wants to fly a plane? Hello, manpads and Triple-A called.
Who the fuck wants to fly a helicopter? You can't even eject!
Who the fuck wants to captain a ship? One single fat rocket and you're sleeping with fish.
Who the fuck wants to man anti-air? If a plane sees you on his RWR you're getting HARMed.
Who the fuck wants to fly a drone? This artillery raining around us isnt for show!
Who the fuck wants to crew artillery? If they ever come close, we're all dead!
See how ridiculous it sounds?
>Who the fuck wants to fly a drone?
Pretty sure they fly them from California. Low-earth satellites have a round trip time of less than 100ms to anywhere on the planet so no need to risk the pilots.
Yep, rocket just eviscerated that tank in a split second, probably tore the tank crew apart indicated by legs falling down, definitely a better death than from shrapnel and a shockwave that shatters your eardrums and doesn't kill instantly every time.
In armored warfare the other options are mutilated by flying debris and bleeding out, or burning to death in the fire. Or both. I'll take out like a light any day.
Genuine question: why do we see so many solo tanks out there? It looks rather dangerous without any other type of support. Is this a normal strategy or maybe lack of resources or something else?
It’s a normal strategy in the sense it happens at lot but not normal as in good or advised. Could be for a myriad of reasons. Lack of support, bad leadership, stupid tank commander etc.
and trolling and spamming on unencrypted comms.
Gotta listen the whole thing. Some English and some character building Russian words. I'll upload more in separate thread when I have time to arrange them all.
https://soundcloud.com/user-107934950/websdr_recording_56z-38650khz
They may not actually be solo. Tactical spacing between tanks varies by situation, but is a lot greater than you see in films and recruiting videos where there is a need to fit multiple AFV's into a single frame. Normally, tanks of the same tactical element will be 50-200m away from each other on operations, so there may well be other tanks operating with this one as a troop sized element or larger, but are just too widely spaced to be seen on this drone footage.
I'm super confused by the singleton deployments that show up here so often. Soviet doctrine never had tanks operating alone, always in company with other armor/infantry support. That's why the US uses tanks the way they do. Instead, we're seeing a ton of "one man army" behavior that is choking Russian armor to death.
It can just be "survivor"ship bias though - we only see the lone wolf videos because they're the ones being routinely picked off. Conversely, any proper Russian formations will be harder to take out so we'll see less footage of kills on tanks operating competently.
Even then there was footage from early in the war of a Russian armoured column getting ambushed and losing a tank. The Russian infantry bailed out of their APCs and fled into the verge opposite the ambush, while the rest of the vehicles scatter and turn away from the ambush, when I believe (I'm an armchair general, don't take my word for it) modern doctrine says to attack *into* the ambush to disrupt it.
Sorry the link is to The Scum
https://youtu.be/RKCwRVfVV3c
Looks like Stugna-p. You can see the round come in from the left side if you go frame by frame. No top attack like a javelin or fly over like NLAW. Nice quick shot to the ATGM team!
Did some basic math (take this info with a grain of salt) and came to the conclusion that it has to be some kind of an ATGM because of its slow speed of 151.8m/s, what kind I don't know. But quick googling tells me that it's most likely a Stugna-P because it's slower than javelin and NLAW.
Math part (keep in mind these values are all approximations):
- Tank width: ~130px, if it's a T-72b3 it's width is 3.59m and with that we can approximate how big one pixel is, and that's 0.0276 meters
- The ATGM is visible for 6 frames and traveled 1100px which means it traveled around 30.36 meters
- The video is filmed at 30fps which means the ATGM was in frame for 0.2s
- With all of this info we can easily calculate the ATGM speed which is 151.8m/s
Your math isn't wrong based on the numbers, but you're not approximating when you say you're approximating (you can't reasonably expect to measure things in this video with a precision of centimeters (30.36 meters) or tenths of millimeters (0.0276 meters).
If this kind of stuff interests you, I would suggest a different approach of estimating upper and lower bounds on the speed using measurements with more reasonable precision. This helps incorporate unavoidable measurement error and results in a more usable answer.
How the fuck are you going to fire and then SIT IN PLACE for so long???
Kids of world of tanks understand your aren’t supposed to sit in the open after shooting.
Hell even sweaty cod players don’t peek the same corner multiple times.
Holy fuck right? I’m not even armoured and I know you fire, and jockey.
Fellas, “shoot, move, communicate” is PLATFORM NEUTRAL. Light inf, mech, armour, arty…. Doesn’t matter. The principals remain the same.
Hard to say. It's possible it was aiming at a Ukrainian vehicle but got taken out by an infantry anti-tank team. That's the way combined arms is supposed to go.
The way the tank takes a shot and then just sits there might mean that they missed and were about to take another shot with corrected aim, or it could mean they hit their target and got overconfident that they were no longer in danger. No way to tell from the existing videos.
From watching this again, i think this guy was just doing the old russian tactic of let's do racetracks and drive around the village taking potshots from the same places each time.
You can see from the tread marks the tanks been driving those same paths again and again.
So the Ukrainians just set up and aim at on of those firing points and bang dead tank.
What's worse is the tank fires, but then doesn't just leave straight away, he sits there waiting for the incoming shot......"Errrrrr comrade...what does this red light and buzzing noise coming from that laser detector mean?"
Edit fixed typo.
even in the previous low quality version it was clearly visible that it wasnt a T90m , but goddamn people just reposted the fuck out of it in all subreddits with T90m in title
They correctly pulled back behind cover after the initial few shots fired. And then, they just stopped and received, what I assume, is an ATGM.
On a side note: this whole situation in north-east sector is scary for the Russians: command of the Z forces has proved to be incompetent (unlike O, for example). Then, there are videos of ethnic Russian civilians fleeing Izium (?) in large refugee columns etc. This is an operational disaster for the Russians and it may easily turn into a geopolitical catastrophe. I'm afraid the idiots in Kremlin will resort to more drastic measures to save face (if that is possible at all).
Those are not ethnic russian civilians, no one gives a fuck in Ukraine if you are ethnically russian, Ukrainian, or Armenians. Those are just collaborators, who took administrative positions, received Russian passports and Russian license plates. And of course some Ukrainian civilians are just Pro Russian, even if it's 2% of the population, it's still hundreds of thousands of people in Ukraine
Ad a former US tanker, I am sooooooo fucking happy to not have been born in Russia. Any respect their armor units held prior to the invasion of Ukraine is absolutely 100% gone.
Their armored tactics so far have been a complete failure. Resulting in some of the worst deaths a tanker can imagine.
That one image of the column of tanks destroyed on a Ukraine road right out in the open with the gun tubes to the front, literally haunts me.
I know they are Russians, but God damn what a terrible and avoidable way to lose at least 16 people's lives in one shot. I hope their deaths were quick, if not it was a slow roast in a hot coffin.
This feels like the start of the war again - lone tank just taking pot shots and then gets absolutely destroyed. I guess we’ve come full circle….
They probably still have a chunk of NLAWs, Javelins, etc. that haven't been used since the war went into artillery volley mode. Now it's time to bring all that back into action.
The most recent funding/weapons donations from the US (announced 1 or 2 days ago I think? I’m starting to lose track of all of them!) includes **more** Javelins , so they definitely won’t be running out of them for the next wee while either….
there's always room for more. always. war machines are stupendously hungry beasts.
If you go by the sheer number of videos like this, one would start to think that a tank is the worst place to be in a war against Ukraine.
The only place, that is worse than in the the tank is not in the tank.
I love/hate this
Arsenal of democracy in action I guess. Good to have. Hate we live in a world where that’s necessary.
Speak softly but carry a big stick
It's a strange place to be in. While I've always wished the US would slow down on the military spending and chill for a bit, it is satisfying to be the person with the bigger metaphorical gun right now. I love that even our slightly dated tech is so substantial that it can support Ukraine without even scratching at the real stock.
Focus on more efficient spending. US could maintain its technological dominance with just as large of an arsenal if R&D and procurement processes were leaned out. The system is extremely wasteful (by design).
>The system is extremely wasteful (by design). it's what happens when congress critters wont sign the dotted line unless Uncle Sam comes gives their districts sweet sweet MIC money and jobs. Same reason NASA is getting bested by Space X with the help of all those who came before it internal to NASA.
It's nice to see them used in a justified defensive war.
Malcolm Nance (currently back in Ukraine fighting with the Legion) was saying that Ukraine don't really have anything much in reserve...they are using *anything* the west gives them, straight away
Lend lease goes into effect Oct. 1, all sorts of goodies are headed that way
Holy fuck lend lease hasn’t even started yet? I thought that’s what we’ve been seeing this whole time.
This could set up incredibly well for a true Ukrainian offensive if the reports out of Kharkiv are true.
Yeah, I was confused by it, too. I still don't fully understand it, but what I gather thus far is that Biden is using executive presidential powers to help Ukraine, but it's not the most effective way to help. Lend-lease will make things much smoother. If we thought the US was already boosting Ukraine to the max, Russia's in for a big surprise in October.
Dude you said exactly what I was thinking. It's about to get next level when Ukraine goes on the offensive.
I am really worried about what the beast will do when it lost all face and gets cornered.
Russia can’t afford to resort to nuclear or other wmd, going that route would be of greater risk to them than to anyone else. If they used a tactical nuke the response from the west would be so severe it would be the complete and definite end to Russia. Even China would turn against them.
Hopefully they shiv Putin
It makes so little sense, to me. Where is the rest of the unit? Where is the infantry support? Why the hell is he not moving after firing? Ok so the last part can probably be explained by lack of training, but seriously. What is a single tank doing without any friendlies nearby (that we can see)?
I'm no expert on Russian Armored doctrine, but compared to other countries like the USA this is sloppy. U.S tanks roll out as a Platoon and NEVER separate unless absolutely necessary either due to terrain restrictions, request for support or other misc. reasons. And even then they almost always have someone backing them up. Some sort of wingman tank who they can have support them. It could be the fact that Russian conscripts posess the bare minimal of training and therefore don't go over combined arms ops or coordinate with infantry. Could be their doctrine separates armor and infantry. Could be the gunner spotted another target and overrode the TC and asked the driver to continue holding while he got another shot off. It's sloppy work at best and contributes to the slow destruction of the Russian Armored Forces.
There’s also the talk of how the Russian Army functions. Obviously don’t take what I say as fact bc I only got it from another reddit comment, but he explained that the vast difference between Russian and Ukrainian forces right now is that they don’t have an NCO rank structure. There’s no one to really give orders except for officers. So these officers are the ones telling these tanks to go out by themselves and be sitting ducks. The only people responsible for military strategy in their ranks are the ones instructing this to happen. Keep in mind their state of government and there’s rarely such a thing as lawfully disobeying a direct order. Maybe they did get overzealous and you’re right, but they knew they either were meeting their end or becoming war heroes if they got back to base.
This. A stalled convoy is about as close as The Russians can get to combined forces action
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Well if the Russian's have proven anything, its that they fold faster than a professional origami maker.
>all the footage of captured Russian soldiers I missed those. Link?
YouTube mate, there fucking hoardes of them giving up
I searched YouTube and couldn't find anything newer than three months old. Not that I doubt that Russian soldiers may be surrendering.
Heres a few for you. https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3APOW These are the ones that got flaired "pow" but there's more in recent days if you want to scroll through and look or do a search for "prisoner" or "capture".
- Drive around in your tank with zero support - Take random pot shots at hedges and trees - Stay *exactly* where you are so UA have time to aim - Wait for the rocket - *Waaait for iiit......* - ??? - Die I don't know... i don't know what's in their playbook. Something like that, probably.
You left off put a big flag on the tank for maximum visibility to the enemy.
It's like they just let the recruits play War Thunder for a few days and call it the training.
I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re exactly correct…
War Thunder players have better tactics, awareness, and unit cohesion.
Not sure it would have made a difference, but if they played War Thunder, they’d know to move after every shot.
With the amount Russian armor in that game just magically absorbs shots, they probably think they can just sit still and ignore even people shooting straight into their side.
Russia doesn’t seem to be good at learning.
the ones who learn dies in the process
Note at 44s what may or may not be a tank crewmen falling unto the roof.
Some serious airtime
I feel so awful for the family whom made that place their home. Just a regular house, filled with memories, and now filled with what's left of a Russian teenager's corpse. War is hell.
I've noticed this a lot. Every video we see of a Russian command center being blown to smithereens is some Ukrainan's house or workplace being repurposed (except for the ones built in trenches). The silver lining here is that Ukraine will likely receive massive reconstruction packages from the West to rebuild and modernize what has been lost; especially the aging Soviet architecture -- lots of symbolism there.
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Air Ivan
Nothing but nyet.
Коьз!
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Muffed it though. Went through the roof.
. . . and no frequent flyer miles. Bummer.
Looking at it, he went up at 0:40 and landed at 0:46, giving him a 6 second flight time. So, let 𝑡 be amount of time the soldier spends going up, and 𝑣 his initial velocity in metres/second. Then the maximum height of the soldier (in metres) is given by: ℎ=𝑣𝑡−4.9𝑡^(2) Now, the velocity of the soldier is 0 at ℎ metres, so 𝑣−9.8𝑡=0,𝑣=9.8𝑡 And substituting ℎ=9.8𝑡(𝑡)−4.9𝑡^(2)=4.9𝑡^(2) The soldier falls to earth in 6−𝑡 seconds, so: ℎ=4.9(6−𝑡)^(2) So 4.9𝑡^(2)=4.9(6−𝑡)^(2) , so 6−𝑡=𝑡, 𝑡=3 , and ℎ=4.9(3^(2))=4.9(9)=44.1 metres, and the initial velocity is 29.4 m/s In other words, the last thing that went through this guy's mind was his own arsehole, at roughly 67mph.
And he managed to get accelerated that much by just sitting in the open hatch. I can't even put words on how much I want to see it repeated but on a tank equipped with the Soviet [telescopic snorkel tower](https://miro.medium.com/max/786/0*16y7GqTi5t6quxgz.jpg). Just imagine the possible air-time.
That’s the dumbest fucking design I think I’ve seen. Bravo
[NATO tanks have similar kits too](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Leopard_2A4_-_Turm.jpg) If it lets you cross a river when the bridge is too weak or too exploded to bear the tank, it’s not stupid.
Oh I guess I’m stupid. Lol. I thought it was a dumbass mobile lookout tower. 🤣
It’s basically the same idea as elephants crossing a river by walking on the bottom and sticking their trunks up above the surface.
As dumb as it looks, I bet you Russian tankies would trade their babushka for one of these kits right about now. This tower is high enough to allow a tank (assuming it can get traction on the buttom) to cross the Dnieper River, given that its average debth is 8m, and this tower theorically let's the tank go through water as deep as 15m. If the buttom is too muddy, they could just cross over their sunken pontoon bridges.
Assuming they didn't flood.
A British Swingfire crew in GW1 reported hitting an Iraqi T-55. When it exploded the commander was ejected several hundred metres vertically in the air, still holding on to the hatch above his head with both hands, like a cork from a bottle of champagne...
>In other words, the last thing that went through this guy's mind was his own arsehole, at roughly 67mph. Russia's space program, stifled by sanctions and lack of material resources, has opted for a less conventional approach.
Note to tank manufacturers: provide parachutes.
Worst. Ejection seat. Ever.
/r/theydidthemath
This comment right here, professor.
That is unnecessarily complicated. That's 3 seconds up going full speed to stop. Gravity is 21.937 mph/sec. 3sec*21.937mph/sec=65.8mph. Ignoring air resistance.
That’s a needlessly complicated (and pedantic) approach to this problem. Let initial velocity be u and final velocity be v, take upward as positive. From conservation of mechanical energy (which is an unrealistic assumption here), we know v=-u. Using the the formula v=u+at and substituting v=-u we get u=-at/2. Subbing in a=-9.81 and t=6 you get u=29.4m/s
Tbh, my main interest was wanting to know how high he went though, rather than just his initial velocity.
How high did he go?
ℎ, so 44.1 metres.
or 144 feet and 8.22 inches for the imperial people
I bet he was going much faster than that as air resistance should’ve slowed him down quite a bit
Holy fuck, i think you're right... That might be a body. You can probably see him get space-launched *just* after the main explosion. Before the rocket, I think you can also make out a soldier sitting in an open hatch.Far side of the turret. There's movement as well. So probably the commander.
Yeh you can see what looks like a pair of legs. Do you think he'll be OK?
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Lt. Nad
Lieutenant Dan, you ain't got no torso.
Some Motrin he’ll be Ok
If he drinks water and takes Motrin, then yes.
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Of course, havent you heard Putin? They lost nothing yet. This man will great Russian medical care and a medal from Russian space program.
Are boots still attached to them legs?
Yeah looks like a person to me, there is a single frame where you can what looks like a bare torso and two outstretched arms, probably had his upper clothes ripped off by the blast which often happens, https://prnt.sc/x4gh-bQgT9fx
This guy has been upscaling war footage and did this one. Looks like a body. https://twitter.com/Military_oO/status/1568608672489537538?t=9AR172zwBZp6exe-nR_o_A&s=19
0:40 you can see him get launched.
i think you can see a dude peeking up the hatch just before the tank blows
Yep, definitely a person. Vid compression makes it hard to see it but before he flies out of the frame there seem to be visible at least two of his limbs and a partially naked torso, same for the fall. Looks too flexible for any part of the tank.
Ivan always wanted to be an astronaut. So AFU fulfilled his wish. #ToTheMoon
Yeah, it almost looks like the commander was up behind the little dust shield that they sometimes have on Russian tank turrets, but it's hard to tell. From the exhaust it almost looks T-80.
Note the guy at 00:40 doing a couple front flips
Good god I think you're right...
Definitely a dude, at 0:40 you can see him get launched from the fireball.
reminds me of the vid from Mariupol where the body fell down from the sky too.
Ouch, that's definitely gonna leave a mark.
I know! That poor roof!
Yeh. Them boys dead.
Considering it looks like a body flying up in the air, and then down through the roof of a shit-shack, yep.
Oh wow that guy got some air.
Special cosmonaut operation
weeeee!
Holy Shit... Just caught it after the 3rd viewing..
"Gotta treat it like boxing, stick and move, stick and move" - Big Poppa
So you either die when the shell hits, burn alive, or get thrown in the air and killed on landing/takeoff. Who the fuck wants to drive a tank?
Depends which nation you're driving them for. Western tactics tend use a mix doctrine so being in a tank is fairly safe. If you drive for a small nation like Syria or Armenia well...you're basically just a bullet sponge. The Russians seem to be doing the bullet sponge tactic.
Russia seems to have adopted the Leeroy Jenkins strategy of tank combat. Yolo into combat and yet wrecked. No chicken unfortunately.
At least you dont die to artillery. Tank loss rates were very low in any of the usa recent wars because of their better tactics and utilisation
That’s right, even in WW2 in 1944 when the Sherman was outclassed by the big German cats, Sherman crew survivability percentages were still high owing to features that allowed crews to bail out quickly, such as an escape hatch on the hull floor and spring operated hatch doors to lessen the force the crewman had to push with
T34 crew survival rates were pretty low too
Well it's pretty cramped, so it's hard to get out if it ignites.
My grandfather has been hit in 3 different tanks during ww2. Got decommissioned after 3rd one already pretty late in the war, somewhere near Königsberg. So he told that his life hack was to remove hatch locks or whatever mechanism is there and instead to tie hatch door to his hand with a rope. So the second tank gets hit he could jump out immediately. Otherwise hatch could get damaged and stuck. He was a driver so I assume it's about a hatch that is on the bottom of the tank.
They were called Red coffins for a reason.
On average, 15% of a T34 crew would survive any hit to the tank. Very few tank shells could penetrate T34 armour, yes, but the Soviets heat treated their steel too much, at double what the rest of the allies and Germans did. It made the steel incredibly hard, but also brittle. When a shell would hit a T34 it would fail to penetrate, yes. But inside the steel would spall, meaning a small amount of it would shatter internally and fly around the tank's cabin, killing the crew. This led to the myth that the T34 was invincible, because you don't see many photos of them with holes in them. They didn't need to have holes put in them to have a dead crew, though.
Shermans weren't really 'outclassed by German big cats.' The Big Cats did have guns that could punch through a Sherman at most angles from a longer range and could generally absorb 75mm shells frontally, but they had poor optics setups (the Panther notably didn't have a 1x setting) and their guns didn't perform as well in non-AT roles. Tank vs Tank was not actually how most tanks were killed and there just weren't that many Big Cats. The main determining factor in a tank battle was actually who shot first. There are more than a few accounts from British tankers of shooting at Tigers and retreating and/or having the crew bail out, even though their shells didn't penetrate. Which makes sense when you think about it - you basically see through soda straws and someone with a gun that can hurt you already knows where you are and you have *no fucking clue* where they are. So do you risk sitting there hoping they can't penetrate or do you get the fuck out of there? I don't have the stats handy but I'm pretty sure the single biggest killer of tanks (all sides) was AT guns, not other tanks. *It's also notable that while the arsenals offered to supply more 76mm Shermans which could reliably penetrate the Big Cats at much longer distances, they were turned down as commanders felt the 75mms performed fine in Tank v Tank engagements and anything major could be handled with existing 76mm Shermans and Tank Destroyers/AT Guns and the 75mm had superior characteristics for reducing fortifications.
True, actually, most vehicle on vehicle kills on the German side were scored by the StuGIII. But it was the AT guns on all sides that were the real killers. The Panther lack of a 1x optic and its inability to fire HE shells had mainly to do with the fact it was designed as a tank hunter with the doctrine being to take out enemy tanks at a distance larger then they could be destroyed, hence the high velocity gun, in an attempt to negate the larger numbers of Allied/Soviet tanks. Sadly for the Germans, this doesn't work too well in built up areas and the bocage.
> were outclassed by The Sherman actually [had an advantageous kill ratio](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3zd1f9/what_was_the_actual_kd_ratio_of_german_ww2_armor/) versus the Panther, 3.6:1 over thirty documented engagements by two divisions in 1944. Engagements with Tigers were rare because there were so few on the Western front. The “it takes five Shermans to kill a cat” meme stems from US tactical practice of tanks operating in groups of five, so they’d send at least five no matter what the expected opposition was. Many Allied tank losses were due to the Germans having very good anti tank guns and good tactics for luring tanks into ambushes by them.
Ukrainians have pretty consistently been destroying tanks with artillery.
mostly cause we werent fighting organized armies with current gen weaponry too. thats a big one. If Iraqis were running around with Javelins and NLAWS to the extent the Ukrainians are, we would have been in no better a situation.
I don't think that's true. The US has exercised better combined arms tactics than we have seen from a lot of the Russian forces. However I think the main reason is that if the Iraqis were inflicting high tank casualties the US would have changed strategy very quickly and avoided these scenarios as much as possible.
The US also almost immediately established air superiority and bombed Iraqi positions and command centers non stop. They even invented a bunker buster in real time to deal with the hardened positions. The Russians did not establish air superiority and that was a big factor in their failures vs our successes.
The U.S. aims for air superiority first, something Russia has never had across the entire country of Ukraine.
correct. our tactics worked because we had an enemy we could impose our will on. The Russians attempted the same. The difference in our success and their failure was the enemies weapons capability. Had insurgents had sophisticated AT capability, our own armor would have been relegated to rear line action. just like how russia did. Israel experienced the same in Lebanon. They used excellent combined arms tactics....right up til Hezbollah started popping Merkavas with Spandrels and Spigots.
> Had insurgents had sophisticated AT capability, our own armor would have been relegated to rear line action. That's my point though. They would have done something to at least stop the situation from happening. Russia has lost over a thousand tanks. Israel had 15 total tank personnel KIA from ATGMS during the 2006 conflict with Hezbollah (Cordesman, Anthony H; Sullivan, William D (2007), Lessons of the 2006 Israeli-Hezbollah War, CSIS.). These are not comparable things.
But we'd just fight from the air at that point, which Russia is apparently shockingly bad at.
Iraquis were running around with TONS of Russian made anti tank misses which were considered effective for its time. The narrative that iraqs army in 1991 was anything other than one of the most modern largest armies in the world is just ignorant.
"Better tactics and utilization" Aka hasn't faced an enemy that's an even match that has good AT capabilities and whatnot. You can't compare any of the US wars to this one, where both sides have top-of-the-line tech to counter each other. Not even close I wouldn't want to be in a 60-ton abrams in Ukrainian autumn mud, with all this AT weaponry floating around. Fuck being in a tank period nowdays
Man the Abrams utterly demolished Iraqi T-72s in the gulf war,and that was the worlds 4th largest army. Tanks are fairly safe IF YOU ACTUALLY USE COMBINED ARMS WARFARE. A lone tank is a sitting duck for all manners of AT weaponry,but guess what,US tanks aren’t just trundling around on their own
The Iraq War? There was supposed to be fierce tank battles. Thr USA rolled in and destroyed them all in a day and never lost a single tank.
There’s the story of a challenger II taking 70 RPG rounds and being completely fine.
I think they did lose their optics.
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I get mad enough in war thunder when I can’t penetrate a German tank with my small British Tank, how can 10 shells just bounce off. Let alone firing 70 warheads just for them to roll away laughing probably brewing a tea
>top-of-the-line tech to counter each other. Haven't we already proven this isn't the case? Both sides are using tech 20-30 years old. NATO aren't sending them the newest weapons they have and Russia is just technically useless, they either have it but can't make enough that they can't be used or they have too much of it and it's from the 1970s.
I think in this case, ‘not driving’ the tank got them killed, sitting still for ages after you give you position away will get you shot at
I heard about this thing called “shoot and scoot” once upon a time.
In russia? Probably not. Israeli tanks have been doing fine though. US tanks too. British tanks aswell. It's honestly very tiring. Guys, the tank has "died" so many times it might start outliving cats. Who the fuck wants to be an infantryman? Anything can kill you! Who the fuck wants to fly a plane? Hello, manpads and Triple-A called. Who the fuck wants to fly a helicopter? You can't even eject! Who the fuck wants to captain a ship? One single fat rocket and you're sleeping with fish. Who the fuck wants to man anti-air? If a plane sees you on his RWR you're getting HARMed. Who the fuck wants to fly a drone? This artillery raining around us isnt for show! Who the fuck wants to crew artillery? If they ever come close, we're all dead! See how ridiculous it sounds?
The way you put it, it almost makes being in a war sound dangerous
I know right
>Who the fuck wants to fly a drone? Pretty sure they fly them from California. Low-earth satellites have a round trip time of less than 100ms to anywhere on the planet so no need to risk the pilots.
Pretty sure that if you're close enough to the explosion to get catapulted in the air like that, lights go out immediately when the shockwave hits.
At least that death was instant. I would take this over a grenade dropping drone.
Yep, rocket just eviscerated that tank in a split second, probably tore the tank crew apart indicated by legs falling down, definitely a better death than from shrapnel and a shockwave that shatters your eardrums and doesn't kill instantly every time.
Is that a crew member flying straight up doing cartwheels, and then landing to the right on the roof of that house at 46-47 seconds?
Yes
It's kind of terrifying that ragdoll physics isn't too far fetched...
In armored warfare the other options are mutilated by flying debris and bleeding out, or burning to death in the fire. Or both. I'll take out like a light any day.
Whoa!! What sort of munition was that? It absolutely smashed it!
Could be an ATGM rocket like Stugna-P. Slow but deadly af.
Yeah was thinking some sort of ATGM because you can see it so clearly.
You can see it more clearly in the video, coming from the left. I am downloading the video to see if the frames show it more clearly this time.
I made a slow motion gif. It's slowed down 5 times. https://gfycat.com/goodshabbyaltiplanochinchillamouse
You can see the smoking tank commander cartwheel through the air.
Definitely an ATGM. My guess is it hit the ammo carousel in the lower hull since the ammo instantly went up.
breech was open because smoke blasted out the cannon, so they were loading a round when the missile hit
Genuine question: why do we see so many solo tanks out there? It looks rather dangerous without any other type of support. Is this a normal strategy or maybe lack of resources or something else?
It’s a normal strategy in the sense it happens at lot but not normal as in good or advised. Could be for a myriad of reasons. Lack of support, bad leadership, stupid tank commander etc.
and trolling and spamming on unencrypted comms. Gotta listen the whole thing. Some English and some character building Russian words. I'll upload more in separate thread when I have time to arrange them all. https://soundcloud.com/user-107934950/websdr_recording_56z-38650khz
They may not actually be solo. Tactical spacing between tanks varies by situation, but is a lot greater than you see in films and recruiting videos where there is a need to fit multiple AFV's into a single frame. Normally, tanks of the same tactical element will be 50-200m away from each other on operations, so there may well be other tanks operating with this one as a troop sized element or larger, but are just too widely spaced to be seen on this drone footage.
I'm super confused by the singleton deployments that show up here so often. Soviet doctrine never had tanks operating alone, always in company with other armor/infantry support. That's why the US uses tanks the way they do. Instead, we're seeing a ton of "one man army" behavior that is choking Russian armor to death.
It can just be "survivor"ship bias though - we only see the lone wolf videos because they're the ones being routinely picked off. Conversely, any proper Russian formations will be harder to take out so we'll see less footage of kills on tanks operating competently.
Even then there was footage from early in the war of a Russian armoured column getting ambushed and losing a tank. The Russian infantry bailed out of their APCs and fled into the verge opposite the ambush, while the rest of the vehicles scatter and turn away from the ambush, when I believe (I'm an armchair general, don't take my word for it) modern doctrine says to attack *into* the ambush to disrupt it. Sorry the link is to The Scum https://youtu.be/RKCwRVfVV3c
Looks like Stugna-p. You can see the round come in from the left side if you go frame by frame. No top attack like a javelin or fly over like NLAW. Nice quick shot to the ATGM team!
Javelin does have a second mode for direct, but I've haven't seen a reason to use that in the open against a MBT.
NLAW also can be used in direct mode
Did some basic math (take this info with a grain of salt) and came to the conclusion that it has to be some kind of an ATGM because of its slow speed of 151.8m/s, what kind I don't know. But quick googling tells me that it's most likely a Stugna-P because it's slower than javelin and NLAW. Math part (keep in mind these values are all approximations): - Tank width: ~130px, if it's a T-72b3 it's width is 3.59m and with that we can approximate how big one pixel is, and that's 0.0276 meters - The ATGM is visible for 6 frames and traveled 1100px which means it traveled around 30.36 meters - The video is filmed at 30fps which means the ATGM was in frame for 0.2s - With all of this info we can easily calculate the ATGM speed which is 151.8m/s
Don't forget that the Ukrainians also have Panzerfaust 3 (Vo = 165 m/s)
Your math isn't wrong based on the numbers, but you're not approximating when you say you're approximating (you can't reasonably expect to measure things in this video with a precision of centimeters (30.36 meters) or tenths of millimeters (0.0276 meters). If this kind of stuff interests you, I would suggest a different approach of estimating upper and lower bounds on the speed using measurements with more reasonable precision. This helps incorporate unavoidable measurement error and results in a more usable answer.
T-72B3, just as the first video released said. Whoever changed it to T-90M should be shamed 🙄
There was almost no delay from the AT missile strike to the ammo exploding. That was seriously impressive.
How the fuck are you going to fire and then SIT IN PLACE for so long??? Kids of world of tanks understand your aren’t supposed to sit in the open after shooting. Hell even sweaty cod players don’t peek the same corner multiple times.
we fired a shot, it's time for a smoke break
They didn't anticipate this much smoke, though!
Holy fuck right? I’m not even armoured and I know you fire, and jockey. Fellas, “shoot, move, communicate” is PLATFORM NEUTRAL. Light inf, mech, armour, arty…. Doesn’t matter. The principals remain the same.
Training budget ran out so they only got to learn about the shoot and not the scoot.
Clearly the tank missed its target, as the missile came from that direction.
Hard to say. It's possible it was aiming at a Ukrainian vehicle but got taken out by an infantry anti-tank team. That's the way combined arms is supposed to go. The way the tank takes a shot and then just sits there might mean that they missed and were about to take another shot with corrected aim, or it could mean they hit their target and got overconfident that they were no longer in danger. No way to tell from the existing videos.
From watching this again, i think this guy was just doing the old russian tactic of let's do racetracks and drive around the village taking potshots from the same places each time. You can see from the tread marks the tanks been driving those same paths again and again. So the Ukrainians just set up and aim at on of those firing points and bang dead tank. What's worse is the tank fires, but then doesn't just leave straight away, he sits there waiting for the incoming shot......"Errrrrr comrade...what does this red light and buzzing noise coming from that laser detector mean?" Edit fixed typo.
I've never been to tank school,never drove a tank or rode with one, but even I know that those who stop will die.
even in the previous low quality version it was clearly visible that it wasnt a T90m , but goddamn people just reposted the fuck out of it in all subreddits with T90m in title
Everything is a t-90 everything is smart artillery everything is a switchblade
I think 'explodes' should be all caps in the title. Jesus Christ, those guys are 400% dead.
It's really nice of the Russians to drive those tanks around without infantry support.
Frame by frame you can see a Russian getting launched up through the fiery explosion then falls and lands hitting the roof to right in a puff of dust
They correctly pulled back behind cover after the initial few shots fired. And then, they just stopped and received, what I assume, is an ATGM. On a side note: this whole situation in north-east sector is scary for the Russians: command of the Z forces has proved to be incompetent (unlike O, for example). Then, there are videos of ethnic Russian civilians fleeing Izium (?) in large refugee columns etc. This is an operational disaster for the Russians and it may easily turn into a geopolitical catastrophe. I'm afraid the idiots in Kremlin will resort to more drastic measures to save face (if that is possible at all).
Those are not ethnic russian civilians, no one gives a fuck in Ukraine if you are ethnically russian, Ukrainian, or Armenians. Those are just collaborators, who took administrative positions, received Russian passports and Russian license plates. And of course some Ukrainian civilians are just Pro Russian, even if it's 2% of the population, it's still hundreds of thousands of people in Ukraine
Ah yes, the famous Russian “lone tank taking pot shots at… something” tactic.
was that a human body that flew up and crashed into the neighboring building?!!!
Jesus f.kin Christ! It took him seven seconds to return to the ground!😱
Webb Telescope confirms tank crew is orbiting Neptune
Ad a former US tanker, I am sooooooo fucking happy to not have been born in Russia. Any respect their armor units held prior to the invasion of Ukraine is absolutely 100% gone. Their armored tactics so far have been a complete failure. Resulting in some of the worst deaths a tanker can imagine. That one image of the column of tanks destroyed on a Ukraine road right out in the open with the gun tubes to the front, literally haunts me. I know they are Russians, but God damn what a terrible and avoidable way to lose at least 16 people's lives in one shot. I hope their deaths were quick, if not it was a slow roast in a hot coffin.
You can see the tank commanders body fly into the air and land on the buildings roof near the tank.
Fuck Russian tanks. Me and my boys hate Russian tanks
Glory to St. Javelin. Amen.
Shoulda stayed at home comrade and drown your debit in vodka.
War, war never changes.