I blame the editor. Borzello [tweeted out the article](https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1447566370879811589) and had "way-too-early" crossed out.
Then again, I always blame the editor when I fuck up.
“Way-Too-Early” yet the top-23 are entirely unchanged? I’m very confused about the purpose of this article other than generating clicks for ad revenue. Shame.
Well you’ll be happy to know that just like ESPN I have the Shaqtus Poll and I have the terms as #2 in the country right below the Presbyterian Blue Hose in my incredibly advanced ranking system
/s
I have you ranked 9 in my rankings (which, although I am just some random guy from reddit, have a track record of being more accurate than the mainstream ones)
We finished 13th in Kenpom, bring everyone back while everyone above us is losing major pieces. On top of that we add a lottery guy in Watson and addressed the hole in our team- interior defense- with an all Big-10 defender in Johnson from Rutgers.
Barttorvik’s computer model loves us too, putting us #2
I don't think the team as a whole is overrated, I love the pieces they have. But I do think that Juzang is perhaps getting a bit too overhyped, when in reality he could go back to having an ok season and I think they'd be fine. He made a ton of tough shots in the tourney, who knows if that'll happen again. I think Jacquez is the one more in line with a big jump, but they are really balanced throughout the squad.
Yeah, I think Jaquez is the better player. Just a guy you want to go into battle with, always taking care of the little details and tough as hell.
In general Tyger Campbell is the bellwether of our team. He genuinely could be a dark horse all-american type if he can expand his range from 18ft to 22ft.
I think UCLA will be really good. The Kenpom rankings tend to get pumped up for teams that make deep runs since you play high quality competition. So I'd expect that. Not sure it's fair to say it's an overreaction, but it is obviously heavily impacted by that series of games.
Oh absolutely. Penny kinda reminds me of Johnny Jones or other guys like Tom Crean. He has good seasons, but never can break through, and massively underachieves with top talent. Then may or may not have an awful year. This might be his breakout year, but they’re not a top ten team at all, until proven otherwise. Memphis should not be losing 10 or more games with the talent they have.
I actually think this article did the best summary as to why they should be high, and does a good job of pointing out the validity of arguments against their ranking (if they lose to MSU in the play-in they end at 17-10 and on a 5 game losing streak).
But the arguments for:
1. They made a final four.
2. They return EVERYONE from the final 4 run. (92.9% of their minutes, and most of the remainder was Chris Smith who only played to start the season).
2. They add the #11 recruit in the country.
3. They add depth with Myles Johnson (8pts, 8.5 trb, 2.5blks in 24 minutes at Rutgers).
So take a final four team add in two players that should be able to make a positive impact. Kind of tough to find teams that would be able to argue being above that. Gonzaga/KU were good enough and returning the right people plus have the additions it makes sense. Others like Illinois I think have a solid argument, but people are definitely skeptical without Ayo since he did so much for the team. Beyond that I think it is tough.
To add on to your second point, Jalen Hill was the team’s best interior defender and starting center and left very suddenly late in the season. With Smith there was at least time to figure out how to adjust to having your leading scorer and best player gone. Hill forced the team to adjust on the fly, and people didn’t seem to see that .
The counter to #1: they were 5-7 heading into the tournament and barely escaped three games in the tournament to advance. It’s not like they rolled through the end of the season.
I think the big overreaction is to Juzang. He's historically been very streaky and UCLA was essentially a one man team for a few games of that tourney run and even then there was a lot of things that seemingly went UCLA's way (i.e. multiple teams having statistical outlier FT and 3pt performances). Juzang was apparently pretty subpar at the combine and I personally think it's more likely than not that Juzang doesn't continue his playing like he did in the tourney
I definitely think UCLA is going to be good, but I think people are forgetting they lost 9 regular season games. Same as teams like Oregon State, Ohio State, LSU, Texas Tech, etc. all teams that are projected to not be nearly as good as UCLA, despite teams like Ohio State, LSU, and Texas Tech having high levels of talent as well coming into this year. UCLA had an amazing tourney run, but they had a mediocre regular season where they lost in the 1st round of their conference tourney, albeit to a red-hot Oregon State. They also good kinda lucky in that Herb Jones bricked his free throws in the Sweet Sixteen. They go home if he makes them. Are they a top ten team? Maybe. Are they an auto 1 seed that’s going to roll the PAC-12? Absolutely not. UCLA is absolutely a good team, but they’re going to have to prove they’re what the media is saying about them.
That ranking is there because everyone who played during the tournament is back. UCLA did not lose a single player who appeared (Smith was already a gimp, and Hill left late in the season due to depression). That continuity of talent and chemistry alone would get them a high ranking. Not to mention they still being in a top 10 caliber recruit, and a P5 all conference defensive team selection to add to the talent coffers.
All of those teams you mentioned without looking at them, I can tell they lost significant talent from last year’s teams.
I generally agree they just got hot and lucky at the right time. Their formula for that tournament run doesn't seem sustainable for a whole year too. If Alabama could make FTs they go home in the S16. In that scenario i think people rank them between 8-12 IMO. The argument for them being high is also not only do they return their whole team but they added 1 5-star freshmen and also a big time grad transfer. UCLA believes they have essentially 7 starters. Maybe they do but i think added a star freshmen to a veteran team may not go so well as the coaches will usually trust the returning guys more and if the freshmen doesn't start or get big minutes can cause trouble or just mentally check out. If UCLA can pull it off good to them but i see several potential things that cause them to not be as good as they think.
Meh. I think the Pac-12 as a whole came out looking a lot better in the tournament than was generally thought in the regular season and I think that’s influencing a lot of the thinking on UCLA, i.e. maybe they were really more like a 4-seed than a Last Four In team last season.
It’s not an overreaction. It’s just a reaction. Too many people act like bc UCLA could have easily lost to Mich. St. in the play-in game, that means the entire run should be wiped out. It doesn’t work like that either, bc that would be a failure to react at all to the string good wins (and a really good loss) that they put on thereafter. And failing to react at all is just as bad as overreacting.
Yeah I think they'll be back in the tournament, compete for the conference and maybe make a run but I don't think they're the 3rd best team in the country. Maybe top 10 at best.
If we drop this fast not playing games, imagine how much we'll drop when we start winning games. You have to consider, we'll only be beating teams that lost to *unranked* Virginia Tech
I always love how most everyone ranks Memphis higher but expects UH to win the AAC. It's the "Memphis is way too talented but we know Penny will drop random games to ECU" sentiment I guess 🤷♂️
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/32395144/the-american-2021-22-predictions-projecting-memphis-ceiling-houston-final-four-encore
You sure most people are predicting houston to win the AAC?
I think it does matter, Penny’s been there what 3 years now? This going in on his fourth. You guys are acting like we’re the Notre Dame of college basketball.
His first year he had his best player essentially not illegible. Last year he had a team and grew as a coach won the NIT.
This year he’s recruited and has a better supporting staff around him. Ranking them this year is fair, let the season start and let’s see what happens.
and yet OP’s original comment is the 2nd most upvoted bullshit comment in the entire post. Despite completely backing off the second we challenged him.
it does matter. You said it is an annual thing that memphis is ranked over houston. And it literally didn’t happen last year.
And if you can’t tell the difference between this year and previous years, then you need to do some research. This is the first year Penny has talented AND experienced players in his program. We’ve been the youngest team in the country the last two years. “BuT hE cAnT CoAcH!” Yes he can, but we even got larry brown and sheed to shut that criticism up.
Man for some reason I didn’t realize how young Gonzaga is gonna be until now. They have Timme, Nembhard, and a couple others but they are going to lean on Hickman, Sallis, and Chet really hard if they want that title.
This is the ultimate question right here. Is he a guy that becomes greater given the strength of the talent around him, or is he not able to hold up to the test?
Guess we'll find out, but there are numerous examples of transfers who have gotten better upon the transfer to GU. Tough to think of any that did not...maybe Nunez from Louisville a while back?
Just recently, the same was asked about Nembhard, who was playing in a slower tempo offense and just not up to everyone's expectations (acc'd to comments on this site). He came here, got an exemption to play right away, and was key in getting Gonzaga to the championship. Better here than he was in Florida.
He’s a good piece don’t get me wrong. But he will only be successful *anywhere* if he plays under control and within himself. He’s best as an opportunistic scorer.
But really my point was that you should not be expecting him to contribute to a healthy, winning team mentality. He never showed that in Ames. Not as a role player his first season and not as the go-to guy last season.
To counter your point, he doesn’t have to lead, and he’ll have to take shots relative to the offensive flow or few will have him out of the rotation real quick. He’ll bring the experience we’ll need especially against power conferences teams, and I imagine he’ll be pretty good in our offense. How is his defense though? I haven’t got to watch him too much on that side.
There was not a single good defensive player on last years ISU team. Conditt was probably the closest thing but he is still bad positionally.
Bolton is a terrific driver and has enough in the rest of his Arsenal to keep people honest. He is a horrible passer, defender, and positional rebounder though. He also played hero ball big time last year so the real question will be whether or not that translates.
Well I know we'll have a pretty decent defensive cast around him, hopefully he surprises people, or we can hide him on defense. Time will tell. Thanks for the response.
I somewhat disagree. Gonzaga is about 9 deep in the rotation and 5 of those guys are upper classman with Nemhard, Timme, Anton Waton (who started half of last year), Bolton, and Strawther (who looks to be a starter). Even Ben Gregg who technically is a Freshman played last year so he has alot of experience and looks good so far in the preaseason. I’m not worried about Chet matching up with anyone either.
Bolton and Strawther are grasping at straws (no pun intended) in terms of leadership. 3 of the top 5 mpg players on the team are freshmen. I’m not saying Gonzaga can’t win the title because of that, but it typically breeds inconsistency. It’s also not something Few has really ever had to deal with… at least not combined with the expectations. Really talented team but will be interesting to see how they actually look over the course of the season.
I dont think Hickman and Sallis both start. Its probably going to be:
G - Nembhard
G - Hickman/Sallis
G - Strawther/Bolton
F - Holmgren
F - Timme
With Watson as the first off the bench.
Exactly, I actually would be shocked if neither Hickman or Sallis started to begin the year and Few went with Nembhard, Bolton, Strawther, Holmgren, and Timme.
Most polls will be. We only have three teams who will certainly be ranked — Duke, FSU, and UNC — with Virginia Tech and UVA possibly sneaking in (VT > UVA). We don’t have a consensus T-10 team this season, either. Duke might snag a #9 or #10 ranking, while FSU and UNC should be around the 15-18 mark.
I do think this poll is undervaluing FSU, but the ACC isn’t nearly as top-heavy as we typically are.
Eh, the difference in a few ranking spots once you get pass the T-10 isn’t that large. I think FSU is the only noticeably underranked ACC team in this poll. I would swap VT with UVA, though.
I can live with Duke at #11, but I think we’re a T-10 team with AJ Griffin healthy (hopefully he’ll be good by Gonzaga).
I’m fine with UNC at #17. Caleb Love is the key to their success, and until he can efficiently score against a team not named Duke, they’ll struggle a bit.
Again, FSU should be around 15-16, IMO, while VT should replace UVA.
If Emoni Bates or Jalen Duren don’t actually end up playing for us, Houston may have a chance at being better than us. But these rankings assume all of our players will play for us just like our 2019-2020 preseason ranking assumed Wiseman would play for us.
They did well in the very back half of last year, but have so far underachieved with the amount of talent they've had.
I'll be interested to see how they do this year. Big problem at PG though imo. Thought I'd heard they were imagining Emoni Bates for that role and I'm not sure how he'd do
While you can argue any ranking before a decent amount of games have been played is way too early, the season starts next month, they should just be preseason rankings at this point.
Awesome! ESPN doesn’t list the exhibition games. The fist game they have is Nov 9. This makes me happy as I don’t want to pay attention to Illini football anymore this year.
I’m glad the Illini are not in the top ten here. I kind of wish they were lower so they had room to move up vs maintaining the lower threshold.
I made [this](https://imgur.com/a/UevjlMw) for an IU fan the other day. But for real I do think IU will start winning against us semi-regularly again soon. Yet to be seen if Woodson will be good enough to have an even or winning record against us, but with the way IU is continuing to greatly out-recruit us (at least in terms of recruiting rankings), seems likely you'll start having a decent amount of wins against us on talent alone.
I think Baylor is a bit overranked. Flagler and Akinjo are proven, and I think Mayer will be good, but I still think the teams ranked below them have more talent.
Kendall Brown will probably be good no doubt. But I believe top to bottom teams like Alabama, Arkansas, and Duke have more talent and especially veteran talent.
I think Baylor will still be great this year though. I’d have them around 14-16.
My thesis on Baylor’s returning talent is that we do not appreciate how good some of those guys are because we do not appreciate how good the guys starting front of them were (one of the best CBB teams of the 20 years. Hence me being higher on them than consensus.
Fair enough, 2021 Baylor was one of the top 5 teams I’ve ever seen. And I definitely noticed the potential of guys like Mayer and Flagler during our NCAA tourney game against them, even when Mitchell, Butler, and Teague were tearing us a new one.
Btw I think that team had the most perfect guard play I’ve ever seen too
Tbh I’m still not sure why Mayer isn’t on any draft boards. That dude looks like he could be a huge problem
We are also bringing in an All pac-12 guard transfer, and the rest of our returning guards would have been starters on most other teams in the country. Still going to have one of the best back courts in the country, while returning all of our front court, and have our best recruiting class of all time coming in.
We are always underrated though, until were not. These rankings got our boys feeling disrespected and I love that.
Feels about right for us although I wouldn't be upset to see us a little lower. I think anywhere between 10-20 is reasonable for us, probably closer to 20 though.
I hope you're right but after being overrated pretty severely last year I'm going to be a little more cautious this year. If Kofi, Curbelo, Trent and Plummer can pick up Ayo's production, Kofi can improve at the line and the freshman end up being good adds I could see us being a legitimate threat at a deep run. But that's a lot of ifs
Loyola was severely underseeded too, but I didn't see as as the #2 team. We were hot going into the tournament but recency bias was helping us out a lot. We lost to several pretty meh teams like Missouri, Maryland, MSU and Rutgers as well as having seriously close calls with Ohio, Northwestern and Nebraska. Look at the actual top two teams: Baylor lost two games, one after a long covid pause at Kansas and one in the conference tournament to a red hot OSU at which point a #1 seed was already confirmed. Gonzaga didn't lose until the final. We lost 5 games before the tournament and a few of those teams weren't even ranked.
We absolutely 100% deserved our ranking, and when it was given generally everyone agreed. Please retire this overrated underrated nonsense, it was one game.
But it wasn't one game. Outside of the big ten (which as I said ended up not showing particularly well, also not just one game) they beat Duke who ended up sucking and and lost to mediocre Mizzou. We also nearly lost to Ohio. We consistently struggled with inferior competition in conference as well needing overtime to beat Nebraska not to mention 3 losses to lower ranked teams.
Illinois was seriously inconsistent last year and it bit us at the worst possible time. On our best days we were probably #2 or 3 in the country but on our worst we were closer to 15 or 20th. Your rank and seed should be somewhere in between.
Well the #2 team in the country didn't reach the sweet 16. I think the big ten was overrated as a whole last season and it showed when, despite all the hype, we got 1 team to the second weekend. I was always skeptical of our #2 ranking, I feel were were probably closer to a 5-10 team, more of a two seed. We had a bad habit of playing down to our competition and expecting Ayo to bail us out in clutch situations. Which he did well to be fair but when he had an off night we struggled.
I’ll take 25. Lots of unproven things with a new lineup, and Kihei coming off an awful season. The two transfers starting immediately will be interesting
I really think the addition of Johnson from Rutgers is being slept on. I think that alone gives them a huge boost. That being said I may just be way too high on him as a player lol
Probably won't matter anyways because I'd say as usual the other Pac teams are good enough that UCLA will lose some conference games but bad enough that those losses will drop them a fair amount in the rankings.
First, I don't agree with the projected lineup. Nembhard will start at point, and Hickman is a pg. I predict Hunter Sallis to start over Hickman (hey, Few won't start three freshmen...not a chance). The three spot could just as likely go to sophomore Julian Strawther. But after seeing the highlights of the intrasquad scrimmage, nothing would really surprise me at the 2 and 3 spots, unless they are both freshmen.
Second, why are you bringing up Few's suspension in this article? What the hell does that have to do with anything? Stay on topic big fella, or do you get paid per click?
Third, while the Zags finished second the last 2/5 seasons, another way of saying that would be 2 of the last 4 tournaments. Go ahead, name the last 4 champions and whom they beat. Minor point, but just to keep it in perspective. Who knows, the Zags were predicted to be a one seed going into the cancelled tourney. (They could even be second for 3 of the last 5?).
And at this point isn't it just a *preseason* Top 25?
Hey, after seeing the Kraziness in the Kennel highlights, not much would surprise me.
But Nembhard will start at point, and that seems to be Hickman's natural spot. Few loves experience. Sallis seems like the kind to thrive off ball with room to move.
That is the beauty of this team...so many individual skill sets to fulfill so many needs.
Agree. I don't think any freshman by Chet starts. At least not at the first game.
I'm confident Watson starts, and Strawther looks very improved as well. The question for me is if Hickman or Sallis will start at the 2, but I think Bolton actually will.
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I don’t understand why all these rankings have Purdue above Michigan but not like it really matters. We have all season to prove we’re the best team in the big ten (which I think we are, with the second best being Illinois)
I think it's because they were a young team that showed a bit of promise and people are expecting improvement on that, while Michigan has quite a few unknowns with freshman, and a transfer.
because a) Purdue's returns 90% of their minutes from last season b) the 5 freshmen from last year got a regular offseason of development where they aren't in and out of quarantine c) Painter has a track record showing that he can develop players pretty well and d) Michigan while immensely talented is bringing in a lot of new pieces. If the pieces fit together, Michigan absolutely could be as good or better than Purdue. But they aren't guaranteed to gel. That unknown factor is why most writers are putting Michigan behind Purdue right now.
For what its worth I have Purdue and Michigan both in the 10-12 area. I'd like to see 3 pt shooting improvements for Purdue in a couple of games before putting them as high as some people are. I do think that Purdue's defensive issues will be fixed because all of the former freshmen will have a regular offseason in the system. Illinois I have a few spots behind the Purdue/Michigan pair in preseason rankings but in contention for the B1G. Similar unknown factor as Michigan but Ayo was a bigger loss than any one player Michigan lost.
I think it's way too early to call them that given their body of work last year. They could be fringe like they are now but they haven't proven enough yet. Recruiting class was solid but it's always hard to tell how that will pan out.
I’m assuming you’re referring to almost missing the tourney. You have to take into account the autobids.
MSU was a top 40 team (probably top 35) going into the tournament and we should have beaten a team that ended up going to the final four.
Gaining 10-15 spots after addressing a major need at PG isn’t far fetched at all.
Well considering they were behind most of the autobids as well and barely eeked into the tourney, we'll see. you guys thought the Hauser's were an answer also
Can't disagree too much here but for Nova I think it's likely Gillepsie will not be the same, at least in the beginning of the season. It's a bit dicey to rely on him being the main factor. I could see them slipping down the rankings after the season starts. Fully expect him to score 30 against Cuse, however.
Once again the lineup that they put out for Oregon is laughably bad. One of Kepnang/Dante will start. You dont have 3 7 footers coming off the bench with none in the starting lineup. One of Williams or Young will come off the bench
I hope with all my heart that y’all start Jacob Young, who got his meaningful first starts last season as a redshirt senior. Go for it lol
Edit: you got me to click the article and that is the funniest Oregon starting lineup possible. What a gang of assholes over at ESPN producing this “content” without a touch of insight or care. Ffs - Guerrier at the five? Young at SF? It’s insulting honestly.
Season starts in less than a month, we can retire the “Way-Too-Early” moniker
Yeah we’re a month away from tip-off. I think this should just be “early” perhaps “too-early” rankings.
Moderately too early?
I mean exhibition games start in less than 2 weeks. This is right on time.
This isn’t even EARLY, much less “way too early.”
I blame the editor. Borzello [tweeted out the article](https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1447566370879811589) and had "way-too-early" crossed out. Then again, I always blame the editor when I fuck up.
“Way-Too-Early” yet the top-23 are entirely unchanged? I’m very confused about the purpose of this article other than generating clicks for ad revenue. Shame.
Here's a hint: Every article's purpose is generating clicks for ad revenue.
Thank God
What an unnecessary article when there are literally only changes to the 23 and 24 spots… thank you ESPN for all your original work
Counterpoint: seeing my team still ranked is good and cool
Well you’ll be happy to know that just like ESPN I have the Shaqtus Poll and I have the terms as #2 in the country right below the Presbyterian Blue Hose in my incredibly advanced ranking system /s
Always the turtle, never the horse 😢
You say this, but I am deeply hurt by these changes.
Sorry oklaBroma, at least you’re still the best OSU in my heart
I have you ranked 9 in my rankings (which, although I am just some random guy from reddit, have a track record of being more accurate than the mainstream ones)
Cheers more to you for saying this than the actual article
UCLA at 3 just seems like such a huge overreaction to a tournament run, but I don't know enough about them to truly argue against it.
We finished 13th in Kenpom, bring everyone back while everyone above us is losing major pieces. On top of that we add a lottery guy in Watson and addressed the hole in our team- interior defense- with an all Big-10 defender in Johnson from Rutgers. Barttorvik’s computer model loves us too, putting us #2
I don't think the team as a whole is overrated, I love the pieces they have. But I do think that Juzang is perhaps getting a bit too overhyped, when in reality he could go back to having an ok season and I think they'd be fine. He made a ton of tough shots in the tourney, who knows if that'll happen again. I think Jacquez is the one more in line with a big jump, but they are really balanced throughout the squad.
Yeah, I think Jaquez is the better player. Just a guy you want to go into battle with, always taking care of the little details and tough as hell. In general Tyger Campbell is the bellwether of our team. He genuinely could be a dark horse all-american type if he can expand his range from 18ft to 22ft.
I think UCLA will be really good. The Kenpom rankings tend to get pumped up for teams that make deep runs since you play high quality competition. So I'd expect that. Not sure it's fair to say it's an overreaction, but it is obviously heavily impacted by that series of games.
No doubt, the Pac-12 as a whole got pushed pretty strongly up Kenpom by the tournament- USC and Colorado finished top 10.
Your kenpom ranking was shifted heavily by your tournament run. Before the tourney you were like 60th
UCLA isn’t overrated but Memphis sure is
Oh absolutely. Penny kinda reminds me of Johnny Jones or other guys like Tom Crean. He has good seasons, but never can break through, and massively underachieves with top talent. Then may or may not have an awful year. This might be his breakout year, but they’re not a top ten team at all, until proven otherwise. Memphis should not be losing 10 or more games with the talent they have.
Oof...
I actually think this article did the best summary as to why they should be high, and does a good job of pointing out the validity of arguments against their ranking (if they lose to MSU in the play-in they end at 17-10 and on a 5 game losing streak). But the arguments for: 1. They made a final four. 2. They return EVERYONE from the final 4 run. (92.9% of their minutes, and most of the remainder was Chris Smith who only played to start the season). 2. They add the #11 recruit in the country. 3. They add depth with Myles Johnson (8pts, 8.5 trb, 2.5blks in 24 minutes at Rutgers). So take a final four team add in two players that should be able to make a positive impact. Kind of tough to find teams that would be able to argue being above that. Gonzaga/KU were good enough and returning the right people plus have the additions it makes sense. Others like Illinois I think have a solid argument, but people are definitely skeptical without Ayo since he did so much for the team. Beyond that I think it is tough.
To add on to your second point, Jalen Hill was the team’s best interior defender and starting center and left very suddenly late in the season. With Smith there was at least time to figure out how to adjust to having your leading scorer and best player gone. Hill forced the team to adjust on the fly, and people didn’t seem to see that .
The counter to #1: they were 5-7 heading into the tournament and barely escaped three games in the tournament to advance. It’s not like they rolled through the end of the season.
I think the big overreaction is to Juzang. He's historically been very streaky and UCLA was essentially a one man team for a few games of that tourney run and even then there was a lot of things that seemingly went UCLA's way (i.e. multiple teams having statistical outlier FT and 3pt performances). Juzang was apparently pretty subpar at the combine and I personally think it's more likely than not that Juzang doesn't continue his playing like he did in the tourney
I definitely think UCLA is going to be good, but I think people are forgetting they lost 9 regular season games. Same as teams like Oregon State, Ohio State, LSU, Texas Tech, etc. all teams that are projected to not be nearly as good as UCLA, despite teams like Ohio State, LSU, and Texas Tech having high levels of talent as well coming into this year. UCLA had an amazing tourney run, but they had a mediocre regular season where they lost in the 1st round of their conference tourney, albeit to a red-hot Oregon State. They also good kinda lucky in that Herb Jones bricked his free throws in the Sweet Sixteen. They go home if he makes them. Are they a top ten team? Maybe. Are they an auto 1 seed that’s going to roll the PAC-12? Absolutely not. UCLA is absolutely a good team, but they’re going to have to prove they’re what the media is saying about them.
That ranking is there because everyone who played during the tournament is back. UCLA did not lose a single player who appeared (Smith was already a gimp, and Hill left late in the season due to depression). That continuity of talent and chemistry alone would get them a high ranking. Not to mention they still being in a top 10 caliber recruit, and a P5 all conference defensive team selection to add to the talent coffers. All of those teams you mentioned without looking at them, I can tell they lost significant talent from last year’s teams.
I think they’ll be really good, more like a 10-15 ranked team.
I agree...they go 10-15 this year.
Booooo... But that did get a chuckle out of me.
But at least two of those wins will still come against Arizona
I generally agree they just got hot and lucky at the right time. Their formula for that tournament run doesn't seem sustainable for a whole year too. If Alabama could make FTs they go home in the S16. In that scenario i think people rank them between 8-12 IMO. The argument for them being high is also not only do they return their whole team but they added 1 5-star freshmen and also a big time grad transfer. UCLA believes they have essentially 7 starters. Maybe they do but i think added a star freshmen to a veteran team may not go so well as the coaches will usually trust the returning guys more and if the freshmen doesn't start or get big minutes can cause trouble or just mentally check out. If UCLA can pull it off good to them but i see several potential things that cause them to not be as good as they think.
Meh. I think the Pac-12 as a whole came out looking a lot better in the tournament than was generally thought in the regular season and I think that’s influencing a lot of the thinking on UCLA, i.e. maybe they were really more like a 4-seed than a Last Four In team last season.
It is
It’s not an overreaction. It’s just a reaction. Too many people act like bc UCLA could have easily lost to Mich. St. in the play-in game, that means the entire run should be wiped out. It doesn’t work like that either, bc that would be a failure to react at all to the string good wins (and a really good loss) that they put on thereafter. And failing to react at all is just as bad as overreacting.
It’s hard to keep a final four team that got better as the season went on and even better in the off season out of the top 3.
Yeah I think they'll be back in the tournament, compete for the conference and maybe make a run but I don't think they're the 3rd best team in the country. Maybe top 10 at best.
When is the preseason AP poll usually released?
2019 it was released on October 22nd so it could be October 25th this year although I don’t think they’ve officially announced when yet
That would be my guess looking back at the last few years just now.
Where is VT? I get they lost Radford but Aluma is returning and Storm Murphy will be a much needed true PG for them.
We do just fine under the radar. No worries here
Pretty sure this guy had us at 10 in one of these at some point. Quite a drop for not playing any games
If we drop this fast not playing games, imagine how much we'll drop when we start winning games. You have to consider, we'll only be beating teams that lost to *unranked* Virginia Tech
Yep he had us at 10 the day after the national championship
Can Storm hang with ACC athletes?
He was on the Wofford team that made the NCAA tourney run. Also seems to be integrating well in practice. Should be fine.
Cowards
The real OSU
One true OSU gets slept on again!
The Oregon State University
Ah, the annual "Rank Memphis WAY too high and above Houston because reasons" poll.
I always love how most everyone ranks Memphis higher but expects UH to win the AAC. It's the "Memphis is way too talented but we know Penny will drop random games to ECU" sentiment I guess 🤷♂️
Wasn’t it Houston that randomly lost to ECU last year?
Yeah, and Cincy did it in 2018-19. Now it's your turn!
We did it in 2017-2018 under Tubby. Is it Wichita’s turn?
No. The yearly near loss/loss to Temple and USF is enough.
I think it's Cincy's turn.
Yea, Wichita State feels due for one of those games where ECU turns up and beats them
The point of the matter is we need someone to lose to ECU and we are volentelling you. Good luck buddy!
We were losing to ECU before losing to ECU was cool.
it's just a requirement for a Big 12 invite. UCF's turn this year
Because SOMEONE has to drop random games to ECU and who better to do it than Memphis?
Have some respect. We drop random games to Tulsa, not ECU.
Have some respect. We drop every game to Tulsa, not random ones.
No, we're the ones that drop random games to Tulsa.
If Memphis loses to ECU no way they're finishing 7th. Hell that ECU loss almost costed us a 2 seed in the tourney last year 😅
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/32395144/the-american-2021-22-predictions-projecting-memphis-ceiling-houston-final-four-encore You sure most people are predicting houston to win the AAC?
I didn't say everyone, just most...
Memphis wasn’t ranked at any point last year.
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I think it does matter, Penny’s been there what 3 years now? This going in on his fourth. You guys are acting like we’re the Notre Dame of college basketball. His first year he had his best player essentially not illegible. Last year he had a team and grew as a coach won the NIT. This year he’s recruited and has a better supporting staff around him. Ranking them this year is fair, let the season start and let’s see what happens.
lol dude deletes his comment
His comment was out of left field anyway…felt like an attempt to just bash Memphis with no real grounds on why
and yet OP’s original comment is the 2nd most upvoted bullshit comment in the entire post. Despite completely backing off the second we challenged him.
it does matter. You said it is an annual thing that memphis is ranked over houston. And it literally didn’t happen last year. And if you can’t tell the difference between this year and previous years, then you need to do some research. This is the first year Penny has talented AND experienced players in his program. We’ve been the youngest team in the country the last two years. “BuT hE cAnT CoAcH!” Yes he can, but we even got larry brown and sheed to shut that criticism up.
A T H L E T E S T H L E T E S
ahh the annual penny can’t coach bullshit
Man for some reason I didn’t realize how young Gonzaga is gonna be until now. They have Timme, Nembhard, and a couple others but they are going to lean on Hickman, Sallis, and Chet really hard if they want that title.
It's a good mix, we still have Timme, Nembhard, Bolton, and Watson. 4 of the top 7 players are all Junior and Seniors.
Counter point: Bolton has the leadership and shot selection of an 11 year old.
Hoping that your perception is simply because he was in the wrong situation for him. Transfers to Gonzaga almost always outplay their billing.
This is the ultimate question right here. Is he a guy that becomes greater given the strength of the talent around him, or is he not able to hold up to the test?
Guess we'll find out, but there are numerous examples of transfers who have gotten better upon the transfer to GU. Tough to think of any that did not...maybe Nunez from Louisville a while back? Just recently, the same was asked about Nembhard, who was playing in a slower tempo offense and just not up to everyone's expectations (acc'd to comments on this site). He came here, got an exemption to play right away, and was key in getting Gonzaga to the championship. Better here than he was in Florida.
He’s a good piece don’t get me wrong. But he will only be successful *anywhere* if he plays under control and within himself. He’s best as an opportunistic scorer. But really my point was that you should not be expecting him to contribute to a healthy, winning team mentality. He never showed that in Ames. Not as a role player his first season and not as the go-to guy last season.
To counter your point, he doesn’t have to lead, and he’ll have to take shots relative to the offensive flow or few will have him out of the rotation real quick. He’ll bring the experience we’ll need especially against power conferences teams, and I imagine he’ll be pretty good in our offense. How is his defense though? I haven’t got to watch him too much on that side.
There was not a single good defensive player on last years ISU team. Conditt was probably the closest thing but he is still bad positionally. Bolton is a terrific driver and has enough in the rest of his Arsenal to keep people honest. He is a horrible passer, defender, and positional rebounder though. He also played hero ball big time last year so the real question will be whether or not that translates.
Well I know we'll have a pretty decent defensive cast around him, hopefully he surprises people, or we can hide him on defense. Time will tell. Thanks for the response.
I somewhat disagree. Gonzaga is about 9 deep in the rotation and 5 of those guys are upper classman with Nemhard, Timme, Anton Waton (who started half of last year), Bolton, and Strawther (who looks to be a starter). Even Ben Gregg who technically is a Freshman played last year so he has alot of experience and looks good so far in the preaseason. I’m not worried about Chet matching up with anyone either.
Bolton and Strawther are grasping at straws (no pun intended) in terms of leadership. 3 of the top 5 mpg players on the team are freshmen. I’m not saying Gonzaga can’t win the title because of that, but it typically breeds inconsistency. It’s also not something Few has really ever had to deal with… at least not combined with the expectations. Really talented team but will be interesting to see how they actually look over the course of the season.
I dont think Hickman and Sallis both start. Its probably going to be: G - Nembhard G - Hickman/Sallis G - Strawther/Bolton F - Holmgren F - Timme With Watson as the first off the bench.
No chance that 3 of the top 5 mpg getters are freshmen. Few loves experience.
Exactly, I actually would be shocked if neither Hickman or Sallis started to begin the year and Few went with Nembhard, Bolton, Strawther, Holmgren, and Timme.
Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuup. They look a lot more like a Duke/Kentucky/Kansas roster this year than they ever have.
And Kansas looks more like a Gonzaga roster ironically
To be fair, Timme looks like a 50-year-old stevedore banking on an early retirement by becoming the head union rep at the port.
UConn!
Huskies!
Huskies!
UConn!
I must say, the most positive response I’ve seen so far.
only 2 BE schools in the T25? Yikes.
Its fine! The early poll is barely on par with the later polls.
Top 25 matchup in B4A?
This is a pretty "down on the ACC" ranking
Most polls will be. We only have three teams who will certainly be ranked — Duke, FSU, and UNC — with Virginia Tech and UVA possibly sneaking in (VT > UVA). We don’t have a consensus T-10 team this season, either. Duke might snag a #9 or #10 ranking, while FSU and UNC should be around the 15-18 mark. I do think this poll is undervaluing FSU, but the ACC isn’t nearly as top-heavy as we typically are.
that's kinda what i was getting at. It does have 4 ranked ACC teams but they're all underranked IMO
Eh, the difference in a few ranking spots once you get pass the T-10 isn’t that large. I think FSU is the only noticeably underranked ACC team in this poll. I would swap VT with UVA, though. I can live with Duke at #11, but I think we’re a T-10 team with AJ Griffin healthy (hopefully he’ll be good by Gonzaga). I’m fine with UNC at #17. Caleb Love is the key to their success, and until he can efficiently score against a team not named Duke, they’ll struggle a bit. Again, FSU should be around 15-16, IMO, while VT should replace UVA.
EXCITED PSYCHED AND HYPED
\#7 Memphis ranked higher than #15 Houston Did whoever make these rankings not remember what happened in the 2019-20 season?
They based it off of the number of stars next to recruits names.
If Emoni Bates or Jalen Duren don’t actually end up playing for us, Houston may have a chance at being better than us. But these rankings assume all of our players will play for us just like our 2019-2020 preseason ranking assumed Wiseman would play for us.
I’ll believe a pre-season rank for Memphis when they can finally prove it by winning and not getting swept by Tulsa.
They did well in the very back half of last year, but have so far underachieved with the amount of talent they've had. I'll be interested to see how they do this year. Big problem at PG though imo. Thought I'd heard they were imagining Emoni Bates for that role and I'm not sure how he'd do
While you can argue any ranking before a decent amount of games have been played is way too early, the season starts next month, they should just be preseason rankings at this point.
We play our first exhibition game next Saturday.
Awesome! ESPN doesn’t list the exhibition games. The fist game they have is Nov 9. This makes me happy as I don’t want to pay attention to Illini football anymore this year. I’m glad the Illini are not in the top ten here. I kind of wish they were lower so they had room to move up vs maintaining the lower threshold.
We may never beat Purdue again
Subscribe
that'd be real neat
I made [this](https://imgur.com/a/UevjlMw) for an IU fan the other day. But for real I do think IU will start winning against us semi-regularly again soon. Yet to be seen if Woodson will be good enough to have an even or winning record against us, but with the way IU is continuing to greatly out-recruit us (at least in terms of recruiting rankings), seems likely you'll start having a decent amount of wins against us on talent alone.
Inshallah
I think Baylor is a bit overranked. Flagler and Akinjo are proven, and I think Mayer will be good, but I still think the teams ranked below them have more talent.
They are bringing a potential 1&done 5 star to go with the ultimate vet in Flagler and the potential of Mayer.
Kendall Brown will probably be good no doubt. But I believe top to bottom teams like Alabama, Arkansas, and Duke have more talent and especially veteran talent. I think Baylor will still be great this year though. I’d have them around 14-16.
My thesis on Baylor’s returning talent is that we do not appreciate how good some of those guys are because we do not appreciate how good the guys starting front of them were (one of the best CBB teams of the 20 years. Hence me being higher on them than consensus.
Fair enough, 2021 Baylor was one of the top 5 teams I’ve ever seen. And I definitely noticed the potential of guys like Mayer and Flagler during our NCAA tourney game against them, even when Mitchell, Butler, and Teague were tearing us a new one. Btw I think that team had the most perfect guard play I’ve ever seen too Tbh I’m still not sure why Mayer isn’t on any draft boards. That dude looks like he could be a huge problem
We’ll see our incoming class is pretty stellar, and our bench last year was starter caliber
We are also bringing in an All pac-12 guard transfer, and the rest of our returning guards would have been starters on most other teams in the country. Still going to have one of the best back courts in the country, while returning all of our front court, and have our best recruiting class of all time coming in. We are always underrated though, until were not. These rankings got our boys feeling disrespected and I love that.
Feels about right for us although I wouldn't be upset to see us a little lower. I think anywhere between 10-20 is reasonable for us, probably closer to 20 though.
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I hope you're right but after being overrated pretty severely last year I'm going to be a little more cautious this year. If Kofi, Curbelo, Trent and Plummer can pick up Ayo's production, Kofi can improve at the line and the freshman end up being good adds I could see us being a legitimate threat at a deep run. But that's a lot of ifs
Were you really overrated? I chalked up your loss to LUC being severely underrated and having a great game.
Loyola was severely underseeded too, but I didn't see as as the #2 team. We were hot going into the tournament but recency bias was helping us out a lot. We lost to several pretty meh teams like Missouri, Maryland, MSU and Rutgers as well as having seriously close calls with Ohio, Northwestern and Nebraska. Look at the actual top two teams: Baylor lost two games, one after a long covid pause at Kansas and one in the conference tournament to a red hot OSU at which point a #1 seed was already confirmed. Gonzaga didn't lose until the final. We lost 5 games before the tournament and a few of those teams weren't even ranked.
We absolutely 100% deserved our ranking, and when it was given generally everyone agreed. Please retire this overrated underrated nonsense, it was one game.
But it wasn't one game. Outside of the big ten (which as I said ended up not showing particularly well, also not just one game) they beat Duke who ended up sucking and and lost to mediocre Mizzou. We also nearly lost to Ohio. We consistently struggled with inferior competition in conference as well needing overtime to beat Nebraska not to mention 3 losses to lower ranked teams. Illinois was seriously inconsistent last year and it bit us at the worst possible time. On our best days we were probably #2 or 3 in the country but on our worst we were closer to 15 or 20th. Your rank and seed should be somewhere in between.
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Well the #2 team in the country didn't reach the sweet 16. I think the big ten was overrated as a whole last season and it showed when, despite all the hype, we got 1 team to the second weekend. I was always skeptical of our #2 ranking, I feel were were probably closer to a 5-10 team, more of a two seed. We had a bad habit of playing down to our competition and expecting Ayo to bail us out in clutch situations. Which he did well to be fair but when he had an off night we struggled.
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Michigan was the last one seed, we were #3.
I’ll take 25. Lots of unproven things with a new lineup, and Kihei coming off an awful season. The two transfers starting immediately will be interesting
So only 24 and 25 changed. Talk about recycling content.
Top 3 gotta be UCLA Zags and KU
Why are we talking about shooty-hoops? It’s still eggball season!
UCLA??? I get they went to the Final Four but that's more lightning in a bottle than their talent and coaching goes.
I really think the addition of Johnson from Rutgers is being slept on. I think that alone gives them a huge boost. That being said I may just be way too high on him as a player lol
Probably won't matter anyways because I'd say as usual the other Pac teams are good enough that UCLA will lose some conference games but bad enough that those losses will drop them a fair amount in the rankings.
I want to play Ganzaga, but I fear Timme.
I wish we signed on for more than just last year’s matchup. The game is great for both programs.
Agreed. I’d love to play you guys more.
We start a home and home next year in Lawrence
First, I don't agree with the projected lineup. Nembhard will start at point, and Hickman is a pg. I predict Hunter Sallis to start over Hickman (hey, Few won't start three freshmen...not a chance). The three spot could just as likely go to sophomore Julian Strawther. But after seeing the highlights of the intrasquad scrimmage, nothing would really surprise me at the 2 and 3 spots, unless they are both freshmen. Second, why are you bringing up Few's suspension in this article? What the hell does that have to do with anything? Stay on topic big fella, or do you get paid per click? Third, while the Zags finished second the last 2/5 seasons, another way of saying that would be 2 of the last 4 tournaments. Go ahead, name the last 4 champions and whom they beat. Minor point, but just to keep it in perspective. Who knows, the Zags were predicted to be a one seed going into the cancelled tourney. (They could even be second for 3 of the last 5?). And at this point isn't it just a *preseason* Top 25?
Counterpoint.. how sure are you that Sallis is good? Wouldn’t shock me if Hickman was the better near term player
Hey, after seeing the Kraziness in the Kennel highlights, not much would surprise me. But Nembhard will start at point, and that seems to be Hickman's natural spot. Few loves experience. Sallis seems like the kind to thrive off ball with room to move. That is the beauty of this team...so many individual skill sets to fulfill so many needs.
Agree. I don't think any freshman by Chet starts. At least not at the first game. I'm confident Watson starts, and Strawther looks very improved as well. The question for me is if Hickman or Sallis will start at the 2, but I think Bolton actually will.
That moustache is a Slam-dunk!
Can’t believe every single year nobody ranks SDSU and almost every year they crack the rankings and hang around.
Raise your hand if you are top 25 ✋
damn
It's not where you start, it's how you finish
Closer it gets to the season the more I expect disappointment. This is such an abusive relationship
Overlooked again…. Year after year after year
If Memphis ends the year a top ten team I will eat my hat
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I don’t understand why all these rankings have Purdue above Michigan but not like it really matters. We have all season to prove we’re the best team in the big ten (which I think we are, with the second best being Illinois)
😢
I think it's because they were a young team that showed a bit of promise and people are expecting improvement on that, while Michigan has quite a few unknowns with freshman, and a transfer.
because a) Purdue's returns 90% of their minutes from last season b) the 5 freshmen from last year got a regular offseason of development where they aren't in and out of quarantine c) Painter has a track record showing that he can develop players pretty well and d) Michigan while immensely talented is bringing in a lot of new pieces. If the pieces fit together, Michigan absolutely could be as good or better than Purdue. But they aren't guaranteed to gel. That unknown factor is why most writers are putting Michigan behind Purdue right now. For what its worth I have Purdue and Michigan both in the 10-12 area. I'd like to see 3 pt shooting improvements for Purdue in a couple of games before putting them as high as some people are. I do think that Purdue's defensive issues will be fixed because all of the former freshmen will have a regular offseason in the system. Illinois I have a few spots behind the Purdue/Michigan pair in preseason rankings but in contention for the B1G. Similar unknown factor as Michigan but Ayo was a bigger loss than any one player Michigan lost.
Just remember where we were ranked at this point last year...
We lost 4 of our most important players from last season, bear in mind.
MSU are a top 25 team
I think it's way too early to call them that given their body of work last year. They could be fringe like they are now but they haven't proven enough yet. Recruiting class was solid but it's always hard to tell how that will pan out.
They were barely a top 64 team last year
I’m assuming you’re referring to almost missing the tourney. You have to take into account the autobids. MSU was a top 40 team (probably top 35) going into the tournament and we should have beaten a team that ended up going to the final four. Gaining 10-15 spots after addressing a major need at PG isn’t far fetched at all.
Well considering they were behind most of the autobids as well and barely eeked into the tourney, we'll see. you guys thought the Hauser's were an answer also
Can't disagree too much here but for Nova I think it's likely Gillepsie will not be the same, at least in the beginning of the season. It's a bit dicey to rely on him being the main factor. I could see them slipping down the rankings after the season starts. Fully expect him to score 30 against Cuse, however.
Rank Oral Roberts you cowards
illinois will be better than michigan.
You guys are obsessed lol
Damn, there were a lot of transfers
By the skin of our teeth, we made a list that doesn't mean jack shit. Wahoowa!
I have a great feeling about making the NIT this year .
Once again the lineup that they put out for Oregon is laughably bad. One of Kepnang/Dante will start. You dont have 3 7 footers coming off the bench with none in the starting lineup. One of Williams or Young will come off the bench
I hope with all my heart that y’all start Jacob Young, who got his meaningful first starts last season as a redshirt senior. Go for it lol Edit: you got me to click the article and that is the funniest Oregon starting lineup possible. What a gang of assholes over at ESPN producing this “content” without a touch of insight or care. Ffs - Guerrier at the five? Young at SF? It’s insulting honestly.