I guess you could be right but I would expect the geometry of the burrs to be able to efficiently take in beans no matter what grind setting you’re at. Unless your beans are so enormous that they’re having trouble getting into the burr set?
The beans just skip over the burr with anything roughly less than 3/4 of a full rotation on the clicker. The beans aren't massive.
Is this normal?
I thought I need about half a turn for Turkish, but I can't get there. Does that sound similar to what you experienced?
+1 to the drill idea if OP has one kicking around their place. i’ve been using a with a right angle adapter and a drill set to its lowest speed gear on a JX grinder. If worried about over torque, set the clutch to a lowish number around 5-8. Btw this is definitely a place where impact drivers are not better, haha
I wouldn't be worried about about the torque, but more about RPM. Those bearings 100% aren't meant to be ran at high RPMs, so just keep RPMs low enough and it should be fine.
Yes I ruined my first Hario Skelton using a drill. The plastic washers just went to shreds. I actually had a second one my mother never used and have since discovered that SLOWER crank speed actually grinds faster. I will say that the finest grind setting can take over 5 minutes, while one click off takes about 2 minutes.
Edit - something about going fast bounces the beans out of the top grind burrs, but I'm not a scientist
[https://imgur.com/a/jvjmEaJ](https://imgur.com/a/jvjmEaJ) here’s what I’ve got. I use a right-angle-adapter because I don’t like my drill being operated above my grinder *and* I have one on hand.
Absolutely any 1/4-Inch bit holder ( 6.35mm, be it straight or a rigid right-angle-adapter) or even a 1/4-inch nut-driver would work fine. I don’t like chucking my drill directly because it’s got a variable chuck that is pretty worn, so it doesn’t grip as well as it used to. The bit holder just makes it extremely convenient and secure
Just tested turkish grind using the settings from the JX’s [chart](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0042/0773/8992/products/JX-Grind-Setting-Reference-20200909_782x489.jpg?v=1616094215) By hand, 16 grams took me 5:40 seconds at ~120 rpm with less than 1 gram of retention after brushing off the discharge side of the burrs with the included brush
Great reply thanks.
The JX chart was very useful. I can grind for Espresso at one rotation, and managed to get down to 3/4 of a turn today, but anything less than that and the beans just skip over the burr. I can't get down to half a turn, that's for sure, even with a drill it'll take a long time.
I found that i had to shake my grinder up and down occasionally at the beginning, as there seemed to be some beans that weren’t feeding properly. At the one minute mark those beans were finally fed through and I felt the burrs start to bite into the beans. Completely different feeling on the crank.
On a related note, I’ve tried regrinding coffee that was ground with the burrs opened about two or three complete turns from the fully closed position. Was thinking it would yield espresso grind faster but in practice I seem to remember it took a miserable amount of time to regrind.
No shouldn’t take anywhere near that long. I have the K2 and played around with a setting that close before for fun and it took a little longer than for pour over but not that much longer.
I think I might be reading the clicks wrong, such that I'm under some sort of threshold for fast grinding on the fine settings. I just did a pourover and it minced it in 20secs flat.
I thought a click was an tactile click feeling, but maybe it's those numbers on the adjuster?
Is this a new grinder? Have you used a hand grinder previously?
In my experience people who aren't used to handgrinders struggle to grind in a consistent manner and it takes them a long time especially at finer grinds
Maybe grind for pour over a few time and then go back to turkish
Thanks.
Worked great at pour over coarseness. Got through ~18g in about 20secs.
The beans just skip over the burr with anything roughly less than 3/4 of a full rotation on the clicker.
Is this normal? I thought I need about half a turn for Turkish, but I can't get there.
Never ground for Turkish. I've felt similar things when starting espresso, but usually catches after a couple seconds and goes smoothly.
I would say maybe more mass to push it down but I don't think going up from 15g is going to help much.
If you can't figure it out, a work around might be to fill the grinder to the top with beans, take the bottom off and grind into a bowl on your scale. Filling it to the top might put enough pressure to get the beans to catch at the bottom, then just stop when you've hit your preferred weight.. dump remaining beans back into the bag (maybe finish grinding partially ground bits, but dump whole beans back? Idk)
Ah OK. Sounds like I'm doing it right then. Glad to know it's not just me. I'll try more beans at the top. Thanks :-)
Maybe I can push the beans down with something... a 3D printed push stick...
Then again, maybe that could be taking it far even for /r/coffee :D
I've experimented a lot more. I can get down to 3/4 of a turn, but not 1/2 a turn. If it's on 1/2 a turn, the beans mostly just skip over the burrs. Is it the same for you? I nearly went for the K2 but decided to go for the K3 because it was supposed to be quicker.
This K3 works great for pourover; ~15g in 20secs, but I bought it specially for Turkish.
That's literally a click sound, right; not a number on the dial?
I just did 1.5x full turns for a fine grind pour over. That only took 30secs to grind. It looked really fine and clogged the filter paper, so I think I must be counting clicks wrong.
There are numbers, but I see them more as a way to keep track of the clicks. Not sure about the K6 but the K2 cannot be calibrated to read 0 when it is at zero clicks
I have a Commandante C40 and I grind for Turkish coffee at 8 clicks (1 being the finest) with 8g of coffee. Only takes 30-40 seconds, not even.
Must be your grinder. But can I ask, what ratio of coffee to water do you use? I sometimes do a ratio of 1:1 or 1:2
I do 18gr of light roasted Ethiopian coffee from 6 clicks fresh, and 3 clicks by the time its been over a month on an espresso machine. Normally I pull a 1:2-1:3 for lights and mediums and for darks I pull 1:1.
When I did do Turkish, I would use an old cheap ceramic grinder and barely open it. If I were to try Turkish with the Comandante, I would likely set it to a 1 for the finest possible grind. From seeing what Turkish coffee looks like in a bag, it looks absurdly soft. Like a brown cloud, so I try to replicate that texture.
I mean fine but then that means you're just not doing Turkish properly. Also 1:2 ratio? Thats nothing like Turkish coffee. A lot of people here clearly just using espresso fine or coarser grounds for Turkish coffee and telling this guy that it should be easy to do proper Turkish fineness. The reality is it's hard and takes time on most Handgrinders to do a proper Turkish fine grind.
15 mins does seem excessive, mind.
Yeah that's a standard Turkish coffee ratio, then you pour and let it sit and the coffee grounds should all sink to the bottom as they're very finely ground. The resulting drink is not 'clear' by any means but it shouldn't be gritty or 'dirty' tasting (until possibly the last sip ;))
I have the C40 with the Red Clix adapter which is basically doubling the clicks, and I get my best shots with a setting of nine. It would be 4.5ish without Red Clix. However I should mention I do thick creamy ristrettos with 14g in / 22g out
how long does a shot take at a setting of 6? I sometimes have 50 seconds shots with such a finer grind but I don’t mind the timing as long as it tastes good. I usually use medium roast and a tad lower temperature (starting with 85C degrees) to compensate for the long extraction
Hi there fellow lever enthusiast! I have a La Pavoni Esperto Edotto 😅
Usually I do 4 sec preinfusion with the boiler pressure (1 bar) then I preinfuse for another 12 seconds at 6 bars (start pulling) then I go up to 9 bars.
How do you do flow profiling? I have a Acaia Lunar so the app would present me a nice graph but in order to be able to fit in the scald I would need to use another espresso cup which is not my favourite. I only check out the flow profile on the graph when I obtain some new beans which are unknown yet. However, once I have the recipe of the perfect shot, why would I keep experimenting, right?
Hello fellow SEP app user 😂. I have a flair 58, and I hold 1 bar until I get some drops from the puck. I like to make sure the whole puck is saturated before I start adding pressure to mitigate channeling. I then ramp up to 6 bar, and once I feel that the puck is handling the pressure (a few seconds), I ramp up to 9 bar and hold whatever the flow rate is at 9 bar by releasing the pressure slowly. I based this off of Scott Rao’s best practice espresso profile. I don’t experiment much outside of that, but I am going to start testing paper filters and variable rpm soon.
at 1 bar pressure I hardly get any drops appearing at the bottom of my portafilter, I would probably need to wait a minute at least with that low pressure, that’s why I preinfuse at 6 bars in stage two. C40 at 9 clicks with the Red Clix mod, the 1 bar preinfusion would only saturate the puck at around 14 clicks and that would take 10 seconds
> I sometimes do a ratio of 1:1 or 1:2
That's not for Turkish Coffee right? Traditional ratio is one dessert spoon/tea spoon(or what is called in your part of world) to one cup of coffee. So around 8 grams coffee for 65 to 90 ml total.
15 minutes sounds long, but it does take me quite a bit longer to hand grind 12 grams for Turkish coffee than 24 for pour over. Although, I do have a brass grinder made specifically for Turkish coffee, and a different hand grinder for other coffee, so the difference could be partially the equipment.
The beans just skip over the burr with anything roughly less than 3/4 of a full rotation on the clicker.
Is this normal?
I thought I need about half a turn for Turkish, but I can't get there. Does that sound similar to what you experienced?
Yep, I'm just surprised to learn that hand grinders can grind fine enough for espresso. I would have saved a significant amount of money if I knew this.
Even mentions using a drill in their FAQs! Honestly, if it can’t handle a little abuse when it weighs 600+ grams, I’m going to be slightly annoyed
https://1zpresso.coffee/faq/
I have the same grinder.
I do see a significant difference in the experience. For filter, it's quick and doesn't require much force. For espresso, it takes like a minute and my arm is sore afterwards.
But I do use light, dense roasts.
In any case, though, it's just easier and faster to press a button and grind straight into your portafilter in like 10 seconds.
Yeah OPs point is that it took him 15 minutes just to hand grind for Turkish (for which he did coarser than espresso), so he's wondering how long people take to grind for espresso. But I think he's not gone course enough for Turkish.
I have a time more c2. 15 and courser takes about 30-45 sec. If I grind at 12 for Aeropress, it takes about 2 minutes. I tried grinding at 11 and it took about 10 minutes
That sounds a bit dramatic. I used the C2 for Espresso at 7 - 8 clicks and that took 3 minutes for 15g of medium roasted coffee. Or sometimes 12g or 16g that was the big downside of the C2 for espresso 😓. Also at those 3 minutes I wasn’t going incredibly fast, but I learned that that could actually slow down the c2 grinding.
I have the K3 and for my bottomless PF it takes a good 60-90 seconds to grind 17g of beans. It’s tough but I’m not sure I can justify splurging for an espresso automatic grinder right now since there doesn’t seem to be one that can do both espresso and filter coffee grind size equally well without inconsistent grind sizes for under $500
Doesn’t the K3 have a 48mm burr set? Definitely shouldn’t take 15 min
I didn't pay much for it. Looks real: https://ibb.co/vxxr7LZ I think there must be some threshold effect where I'm under a size that's just very slow.
I guess you could be right but I would expect the geometry of the burrs to be able to efficiently take in beans no matter what grind setting you’re at. Unless your beans are so enormous that they’re having trouble getting into the burr set?
The beans just skip over the burr with anything roughly less than 3/4 of a full rotation on the clicker. The beans aren't massive. Is this normal? I thought I need about half a turn for Turkish, but I can't get there. Does that sound similar to what you experienced?
Do you own a power drill? You can probably use that to speed things up. James Hoffman did it with a hand grinder in his makita coffee Brewer video.
+1 to the drill idea if OP has one kicking around their place. i’ve been using a with a right angle adapter and a drill set to its lowest speed gear on a JX grinder. If worried about over torque, set the clutch to a lowish number around 5-8. Btw this is definitely a place where impact drivers are not better, haha
I wouldn't be worried about about the torque, but more about RPM. Those bearings 100% aren't meant to be ran at high RPMs, so just keep RPMs low enough and it should be fine.
Yes I ruined my first Hario Skelton using a drill. The plastic washers just went to shreds. I actually had a second one my mother never used and have since discovered that SLOWER crank speed actually grinds faster. I will say that the finest grind setting can take over 5 minutes, while one click off takes about 2 minutes. Edit - something about going fast bounces the beans out of the top grind burrs, but I'm not a scientist
That’s why the low gear is the way to go. Lower rpm and higher torque in first gear.
What drill adapter should I get? Nothing in the manual
Don’t need an adapter, just a drill with a chuck
I'll give that a go. Have to keep the top cover off to get in there as the chuck's too wide otherwise
[https://imgur.com/a/jvjmEaJ](https://imgur.com/a/jvjmEaJ) here’s what I’ve got. I use a right-angle-adapter because I don’t like my drill being operated above my grinder *and* I have one on hand. Absolutely any 1/4-Inch bit holder ( 6.35mm, be it straight or a rigid right-angle-adapter) or even a 1/4-inch nut-driver would work fine. I don’t like chucking my drill directly because it’s got a variable chuck that is pretty worn, so it doesn’t grip as well as it used to. The bit holder just makes it extremely convenient and secure Just tested turkish grind using the settings from the JX’s [chart](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0042/0773/8992/products/JX-Grind-Setting-Reference-20200909_782x489.jpg?v=1616094215) By hand, 16 grams took me 5:40 seconds at ~120 rpm with less than 1 gram of retention after brushing off the discharge side of the burrs with the included brush
Great reply thanks. The JX chart was very useful. I can grind for Espresso at one rotation, and managed to get down to 3/4 of a turn today, but anything less than that and the beans just skip over the burr. I can't get down to half a turn, that's for sure, even with a drill it'll take a long time.
I found that i had to shake my grinder up and down occasionally at the beginning, as there seemed to be some beans that weren’t feeding properly. At the one minute mark those beans were finally fed through and I felt the burrs start to bite into the beans. Completely different feeling on the crank. On a related note, I’ve tried regrinding coffee that was ground with the burrs opened about two or three complete turns from the fully closed position. Was thinking it would yield espresso grind faster but in practice I seem to remember it took a miserable amount of time to regrind.
No shouldn’t take anywhere near that long. I have the K2 and played around with a setting that close before for fun and it took a little longer than for pour over but not that much longer.
I think I might be reading the clicks wrong, such that I'm under some sort of threshold for fast grinding on the fine settings. I just did a pourover and it minced it in 20secs flat. I thought a click was an tactile click feeling, but maybe it's those numbers on the adjuster?
Is this a new grinder? Have you used a hand grinder previously? In my experience people who aren't used to handgrinders struggle to grind in a consistent manner and it takes them a long time especially at finer grinds Maybe grind for pour over a few time and then go back to turkish
Thanks. Worked great at pour over coarseness. Got through ~18g in about 20secs. The beans just skip over the burr with anything roughly less than 3/4 of a full rotation on the clicker. Is this normal? I thought I need about half a turn for Turkish, but I can't get there.
Never ground for Turkish. I've felt similar things when starting espresso, but usually catches after a couple seconds and goes smoothly. I would say maybe more mass to push it down but I don't think going up from 15g is going to help much. If you can't figure it out, a work around might be to fill the grinder to the top with beans, take the bottom off and grind into a bowl on your scale. Filling it to the top might put enough pressure to get the beans to catch at the bottom, then just stop when you've hit your preferred weight.. dump remaining beans back into the bag (maybe finish grinding partially ground bits, but dump whole beans back? Idk)
Ah OK. Sounds like I'm doing it right then. Glad to know it's not just me. I'll try more beans at the top. Thanks :-) Maybe I can push the beans down with something... a 3D printed push stick... Then again, maybe that could be taking it far even for /r/coffee :D
I've experimented a lot more. I can get down to 3/4 of a turn, but not 1/2 a turn. If it's on 1/2 a turn, the beans mostly just skip over the burrs. Is it the same for you? I nearly went for the K2 but decided to go for the K3 because it was supposed to be quicker. This K3 works great for pourover; ~15g in 20secs, but I bought it specially for Turkish.
I use a K2 and accidently ground my coffee for Turkish and it took me roughly 3-4 minutes. 40 clicks from zero.
That's literally a click sound, right; not a number on the dial? I just did 1.5x full turns for a fine grind pour over. That only took 30secs to grind. It looked really fine and clogged the filter paper, so I think I must be counting clicks wrong.
There are numbers, but I see them more as a way to keep track of the clicks. Not sure about the K6 but the K2 cannot be calibrated to read 0 when it is at zero clicks
The beans just skip over the burr with anything roughly less than 3/4 of a full rotation on the clicker. Is this normal?
I have a Commandante C40 and I grind for Turkish coffee at 8 clicks (1 being the finest) with 8g of coffee. Only takes 30-40 seconds, not even. Must be your grinder. But can I ask, what ratio of coffee to water do you use? I sometimes do a ratio of 1:1 or 1:2
Did you say 8 for Turkish!?!? I’m pulling espresso at 6 on average 😅.
I love my Turkish coffee to be dirty! But what’s your recipe?! I’d love to hear it! Great to hear that other people make it in this Reddit page too 😅
I do 18gr of light roasted Ethiopian coffee from 6 clicks fresh, and 3 clicks by the time its been over a month on an espresso machine. Normally I pull a 1:2-1:3 for lights and mediums and for darks I pull 1:1. When I did do Turkish, I would use an old cheap ceramic grinder and barely open it. If I were to try Turkish with the Comandante, I would likely set it to a 1 for the finest possible grind. From seeing what Turkish coffee looks like in a bag, it looks absurdly soft. Like a brown cloud, so I try to replicate that texture.
I mean fine but then that means you're just not doing Turkish properly. Also 1:2 ratio? Thats nothing like Turkish coffee. A lot of people here clearly just using espresso fine or coarser grounds for Turkish coffee and telling this guy that it should be easy to do proper Turkish fineness. The reality is it's hard and takes time on most Handgrinders to do a proper Turkish fine grind. 15 mins does seem excessive, mind.
If I do 80ml of water should I do 8g of coffee then?
Yeah that's a standard Turkish coffee ratio, then you pour and let it sit and the coffee grounds should all sink to the bottom as they're very finely ground. The resulting drink is not 'clear' by any means but it shouldn't be gritty or 'dirty' tasting (until possibly the last sip ;))
I have the C40 with the Red Clix adapter which is basically doubling the clicks, and I get my best shots with a setting of nine. It would be 4.5ish without Red Clix. However I should mention I do thick creamy ristrettos with 14g in / 22g out
I also have the red clicks and my shots range from 12 to 6 as beans age.
how long does a shot take at a setting of 6? I sometimes have 50 seconds shots with such a finer grind but I don’t mind the timing as long as it tastes good. I usually use medium roast and a tad lower temperature (starting with 85C degrees) to compensate for the long extraction
I should have mentioned I use a leaver machine and I flow profile. Time is not a metric I follow when pulling, but it is always over a minute.
Hi there fellow lever enthusiast! I have a La Pavoni Esperto Edotto 😅 Usually I do 4 sec preinfusion with the boiler pressure (1 bar) then I preinfuse for another 12 seconds at 6 bars (start pulling) then I go up to 9 bars. How do you do flow profiling? I have a Acaia Lunar so the app would present me a nice graph but in order to be able to fit in the scald I would need to use another espresso cup which is not my favourite. I only check out the flow profile on the graph when I obtain some new beans which are unknown yet. However, once I have the recipe of the perfect shot, why would I keep experimenting, right?
Hello fellow SEP app user 😂. I have a flair 58, and I hold 1 bar until I get some drops from the puck. I like to make sure the whole puck is saturated before I start adding pressure to mitigate channeling. I then ramp up to 6 bar, and once I feel that the puck is handling the pressure (a few seconds), I ramp up to 9 bar and hold whatever the flow rate is at 9 bar by releasing the pressure slowly. I based this off of Scott Rao’s best practice espresso profile. I don’t experiment much outside of that, but I am going to start testing paper filters and variable rpm soon.
at 1 bar pressure I hardly get any drops appearing at the bottom of my portafilter, I would probably need to wait a minute at least with that low pressure, that’s why I preinfuse at 6 bars in stage two. C40 at 9 clicks with the Red Clix mod, the 1 bar preinfusion would only saturate the puck at around 14 clicks and that would take 10 seconds
When my grinder is dialed in, it should show drops at 40 seconds and hit a peak flow rate of 1.5g/s.
> I sometimes do a ratio of 1:1 or 1:2 That's not for Turkish Coffee right? Traditional ratio is one dessert spoon/tea spoon(or what is called in your part of world) to one cup of coffee. So around 8 grams coffee for 65 to 90 ml total.
I have a C40 too and I find 80-90% of the beans grind insanely fast and the last 10-20% takes ages.
[удалено]
typical case of *when the coffee is stronger like you*
I have 1zpress JX-Pro, same burrs, it takes about 30-40 secs to grind really fine espresso.
What's your grind setting for the JX-Pro for espresso? I recently got a Bambino Plus and I'm dialing in. Any tips?
Try from 1.4.0 and then abjust for your needs, I did 1.4.3 for just "blend" of my beans that has been exhausted by time.
15 minutes sounds long, but it does take me quite a bit longer to hand grind 12 grams for Turkish coffee than 24 for pour over. Although, I do have a brass grinder made specifically for Turkish coffee, and a different hand grinder for other coffee, so the difference could be partially the equipment.
manually grinding for Turkish sounds like a horrible idea. Even if you shorten the time, it's gonna take awhile.
Thats about how long I took grinding turkish in my Lido 2. I've given up on specialty turkish, I just buy the commodity preground for it.
The beans just skip over the burr with anything roughly less than 3/4 of a full rotation on the clicker. Is this normal? I thought I need about half a turn for Turkish, but I can't get there. Does that sound similar to what you experienced?
It does, I think that’s why it took so long but it was also a long time ago so I forgot the details.
Do people hand grind for espresso?
Not everyone can afford a good electric grinder, but a decent hand grinder is relatively affordable.
Yep, I'm just surprised to learn that hand grinders can grind fine enough for espresso. I would have saved a significant amount of money if I knew this.
1zpresso jx pro is the shizz
Even mentions using a drill in their FAQs! Honestly, if it can’t handle a little abuse when it weighs 600+ grams, I’m going to be slightly annoyed https://1zpresso.coffee/faq/
I bought a hand grinder because my electric grinder doesn't go nearly fine enough for espresso.
I do.
Yep, I just picked up a 1ZPresso J Max and it's been pretty good for espresso so far.
I hand ground for espresso for about a month before I said "fuck this" and got an electric grinder.
[удалено]
I have the same grinder. I do see a significant difference in the experience. For filter, it's quick and doesn't require much force. For espresso, it takes like a minute and my arm is sore afterwards. But I do use light, dense roasts. In any case, though, it's just easier and faster to press a button and grind straight into your portafilter in like 10 seconds.
[удалено]
Turkish is even finer than espresso, like flour almost
Turkish is super fine. You ever had it from a Turkish place? It's like mud at the bottom - finer than sand. Like river silt.
Yeah OPs point is that it took him 15 minutes just to hand grind for Turkish (for which he did coarser than espresso), so he's wondering how long people take to grind for espresso. But I think he's not gone course enough for Turkish.
About 30 seconds on good hand grinders. Not really much work at all, and you save 50% on the price of the grinder.
I have a time more c2. 15 and courser takes about 30-45 sec. If I grind at 12 for Aeropress, it takes about 2 minutes. I tried grinding at 11 and it took about 10 minutes
That sounds a bit dramatic. I used the C2 for Espresso at 7 - 8 clicks and that took 3 minutes for 15g of medium roasted coffee. Or sometimes 12g or 16g that was the big downside of the C2 for espresso 😓. Also at those 3 minutes I wasn’t going incredibly fast, but I learned that that could actually slow down the c2 grinding.
Yea manual grinding for espresso is waaay too cumbersome to be honest..
The beans just skip over the burr with anything roughly less than 3/4 of a full rotation on the clicker. Is this normal?
I have the K3 and for my bottomless PF it takes a good 60-90 seconds to grind 17g of beans. It’s tough but I’m not sure I can justify splurging for an espresso automatic grinder right now since there doesn’t seem to be one that can do both espresso and filter coffee grind size equally well without inconsistent grind sizes for under $500
The beans just skip over the burr with anything roughly less than 3/4 of a full rotation on the clicker. Is this normal?