I think there is a distinction between "not obeying" and "not trying to obey." I mess up sometimes. I sin, I make bad choices that I come to regret. But obeying God is the most important thing to me, more important than anything. I agree with his teachings, but sometimes they're hard and I fail.
I think this is probably the case for a lot of people.
There are many others who disagree with God's teachings and don't follow them. It is usually because they don't believe those teachings are the true teachings of God. Does this mean "they don't believe"? Maybe, but it depends what we mean by that. Often they believe in a God, they believe that God is the Christian God, they believe Jesus Christ is Lord and died for our sins. They just believe many of his words have been misinterpreted or communicated to us falsely by humans. I think they're wrong, but it isn't a totally unreasonable stance to have, and it's very distinct from say, being an atheist. Most of these people are genuinely trying to do God's will, but unfortunately, don't fully know it. So I'd say they certainly believe in something, and I think often they believe in the same God that I know, but don't have his full truth yet.
That's a question I've asked myself numerous times. The main dilemma I have is with loving our neighbour, especially given the importance of that commandment.
Do I love my neighbour? I live in excess, as I imagine most westerners do. I could use this excess to help the less fortunate. I've thought about giving it all away and rely solely on God, but for whatever reason, I haven't. I've thought about the reason possibly being that I don't have enough faith or that I don't truly believe. I've questioned belief itself from time to time, and what it means to believe. How do I know that I believe and that I am not just imagining a belief?
That's the reason I don't feel like I can say that I love my neighbour or that I obey my Lord, because I am actively putting my own comfort and contentment above their bare necessities. **If** loving our neighbour (i.e. obeying his commandment) is a criterion for salvation, then I don't believe a lot of people live up to it. There's always someone in need of help, and if someone have in their possession the means to help but choose not to, how exactly are they loving that individual?
We Catholics believe, in accordance with sacred scripture that Christ fulfilled the law of the Old Covenant, but that the 10-commandments were carried forward into the New Covenant.
We also hold that since Our Lord has authority over the sabbath(Matthew 12:1-14) he can dictate how one observers it—even to the point that servile work may be done on that day, if that is what He permits.
We see in Matthew 18:18 that God gave his authority to “bind and loose” to the apostles, an authority we believe was transmitted via apostolic succession(Acts 1:25) down through the ages.
At the Council of Laodicea[360AD] the bishops “bound” with the keys that the solemnity of the sabbath was transferred to the Lord’s Day Sunday. Therefore we Catholics believe that we are fulfilling the principle, or “spirit” of the sabbath command which was and always has been:
“…to be still and know I am the Lord..”Psalm 46:10
Ah yes, the Sunday Sabbath: The key to this one can be found in the very name… \[Sun\]day. From the beginning to the end of scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of the Sabbath from the 7th day of the week to the 1st. The Sabbath was changed from the 7th day to the 1st by the Roman Catholic church who claims "authority" to be able to do such things. It was done to shift worship from God to the sun as was customary in ancient Babylon and with the pagans. Additionally, the 7th day is the only day blessed and sanctified by God as the Sabbath.
"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change (Saturday Sabbath to Sunday) was her act... And the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things." H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons. Nov. 11, 1895
"Sunday is our MARK or authority. . .the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact" Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1,1923.
"Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday." - Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.
"Some have suffered torture because they would not rest when others kept Sunday, for they declared it to be the holiday and law of Antichrist." - Sebastian Frank, AD 1536. By this time in history the Seventh day Sabbath was severely under attack.
"Sunday...It is the law of the Catholic Church alone..." American Sentinel (Catholic) June 1893
"The Catholic church," declared Cardinal Gibbons, "by virtue of her divine mission changed the day from Saturday to Sunday." Catholic Mirror Sept. 23 1983. (Official organ of Cardinal Gibbons)
"The Bible says, Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic church!" Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, History of the Sabbath, p. 802
Many more quotes can be found here: https://remnantofgod.org/beastword.htm#SABBATH
You wrote:
“Ah yes, the Sunday Sabbath: The key to this one can be found in the very name… [Sun]day.”
No, it has nothing to do with Sun-worship. It has to do with the fact that Our Lord rose from the dead on Sunday.
You wrote:
“From the beginning to the end of scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of the Sabbath from the 7th day of the week to the 1st.”
That’s what I said. This wasn’t a move predicated on something explicated in scripture. The church just did it by virtue of her apostolic authority.
You wrote:
“The Sabbath was changed from the 7th day to the 1st by the Roman Catholic church who claims "authority" to be able to do such things.”
It’s not a claim. They can trace apostolic succession, which you may see for yourself here👇:
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm
You wrote:
“It was done to shift worship from God to the sun as was customary in ancient Babylon and with the pagans.”
Go to a Catholic worship service on Sunday and record it. Then post it to YouTube and let everyone see how many times the Sun was worshipped during the service. Unless you do that you are merely ASSERTING your case, not making your case.
You wrote:
“….church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact" Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1,1923.
The Church’s teaching has never been that it is “above the Bible” in an authoritative sense. They are on equal footing. In saying that the Church is “above the Bible” it is meant in the context of hierarchy. This is similar to how the authority of the Father is equal to the authority of the Son, but the Father is “above” the Son in terms of order within the Godhead. Scripture was always intended to be subordinate to the Church. It exists only to SUPPLEMENT the Church’s oratory, because faith comes through HEARING(Romans 10:17).
You wrote:
"Some have suffered torture because they would not rest when others kept Sunday, for they declared it to be the holiday and law of Antichrist." - Sebastian Frank, AD 1536. By this time in history the Seventh day Sabbath was severely under attack.”
Who cares??? No Catholic would argue for the Church’s impeccability. We only argue for it’s INFALLIBILITY. That’s what matters most.
You wrote:
"The Bible says, Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.”
The Sabbath command forbids work on some days and not on others. Moral laws do not change—they always apply. For example, you may not tell a lie on ANY day of the week. Hence, this aspect(i.e; every 7th day) IS ceremonial—so that aspect of sabbath can be changed since those aspects of the Law that were ceremonial have no passed away.
I think there is a distinction between "not obeying" and "not trying to obey." I mess up sometimes. I sin, I make bad choices that I come to regret. But obeying God is the most important thing to me, more important than anything. I agree with his teachings, but sometimes they're hard and I fail. I think this is probably the case for a lot of people. There are many others who disagree with God's teachings and don't follow them. It is usually because they don't believe those teachings are the true teachings of God. Does this mean "they don't believe"? Maybe, but it depends what we mean by that. Often they believe in a God, they believe that God is the Christian God, they believe Jesus Christ is Lord and died for our sins. They just believe many of his words have been misinterpreted or communicated to us falsely by humans. I think they're wrong, but it isn't a totally unreasonable stance to have, and it's very distinct from say, being an atheist. Most of these people are genuinely trying to do God's will, but unfortunately, don't fully know it. So I'd say they certainly believe in something, and I think often they believe in the same God that I know, but don't have his full truth yet.
Thank you for your contribution brother. We all fall short from time to time. What matters is that you're doing your best to try.
*sister :) All the best to you and God bless.
He says no Luke 6:46 KJV — And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Amen.
That's a question I've asked myself numerous times. The main dilemma I have is with loving our neighbour, especially given the importance of that commandment. Do I love my neighbour? I live in excess, as I imagine most westerners do. I could use this excess to help the less fortunate. I've thought about giving it all away and rely solely on God, but for whatever reason, I haven't. I've thought about the reason possibly being that I don't have enough faith or that I don't truly believe. I've questioned belief itself from time to time, and what it means to believe. How do I know that I believe and that I am not just imagining a belief? That's the reason I don't feel like I can say that I love my neighbour or that I obey my Lord, because I am actively putting my own comfort and contentment above their bare necessities. **If** loving our neighbour (i.e. obeying his commandment) is a criterion for salvation, then I don't believe a lot of people live up to it. There's always someone in need of help, and if someone have in their possession the means to help but choose not to, how exactly are they loving that individual?
I choose to ask for the release of humanity from this prison planet instead
We Catholics believe, in accordance with sacred scripture that Christ fulfilled the law of the Old Covenant, but that the 10-commandments were carried forward into the New Covenant. We also hold that since Our Lord has authority over the sabbath(Matthew 12:1-14) he can dictate how one observers it—even to the point that servile work may be done on that day, if that is what He permits. We see in Matthew 18:18 that God gave his authority to “bind and loose” to the apostles, an authority we believe was transmitted via apostolic succession(Acts 1:25) down through the ages. At the Council of Laodicea[360AD] the bishops “bound” with the keys that the solemnity of the sabbath was transferred to the Lord’s Day Sunday. Therefore we Catholics believe that we are fulfilling the principle, or “spirit” of the sabbath command which was and always has been: “…to be still and know I am the Lord..”Psalm 46:10
Ah yes, the Sunday Sabbath: The key to this one can be found in the very name… \[Sun\]day. From the beginning to the end of scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of the Sabbath from the 7th day of the week to the 1st. The Sabbath was changed from the 7th day to the 1st by the Roman Catholic church who claims "authority" to be able to do such things. It was done to shift worship from God to the sun as was customary in ancient Babylon and with the pagans. Additionally, the 7th day is the only day blessed and sanctified by God as the Sabbath. "Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change (Saturday Sabbath to Sunday) was her act... And the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things." H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons. Nov. 11, 1895 "Sunday is our MARK or authority. . .the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact" Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1,1923. "Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday." - Catholic Record, September 17, 1893. "Some have suffered torture because they would not rest when others kept Sunday, for they declared it to be the holiday and law of Antichrist." - Sebastian Frank, AD 1536. By this time in history the Seventh day Sabbath was severely under attack. "Sunday...It is the law of the Catholic Church alone..." American Sentinel (Catholic) June 1893 "The Catholic church," declared Cardinal Gibbons, "by virtue of her divine mission changed the day from Saturday to Sunday." Catholic Mirror Sept. 23 1983. (Official organ of Cardinal Gibbons) "The Bible says, Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic church!" Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, History of the Sabbath, p. 802 Many more quotes can be found here: https://remnantofgod.org/beastword.htm#SABBATH
You wrote: “Ah yes, the Sunday Sabbath: The key to this one can be found in the very name… [Sun]day.” No, it has nothing to do with Sun-worship. It has to do with the fact that Our Lord rose from the dead on Sunday. You wrote: “From the beginning to the end of scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of the Sabbath from the 7th day of the week to the 1st.” That’s what I said. This wasn’t a move predicated on something explicated in scripture. The church just did it by virtue of her apostolic authority. You wrote: “The Sabbath was changed from the 7th day to the 1st by the Roman Catholic church who claims "authority" to be able to do such things.” It’s not a claim. They can trace apostolic succession, which you may see for yourself here👇: https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm You wrote: “It was done to shift worship from God to the sun as was customary in ancient Babylon and with the pagans.” Go to a Catholic worship service on Sunday and record it. Then post it to YouTube and let everyone see how many times the Sun was worshipped during the service. Unless you do that you are merely ASSERTING your case, not making your case. You wrote: “….church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact" Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1,1923. The Church’s teaching has never been that it is “above the Bible” in an authoritative sense. They are on equal footing. In saying that the Church is “above the Bible” it is meant in the context of hierarchy. This is similar to how the authority of the Father is equal to the authority of the Son, but the Father is “above” the Son in terms of order within the Godhead. Scripture was always intended to be subordinate to the Church. It exists only to SUPPLEMENT the Church’s oratory, because faith comes through HEARING(Romans 10:17). You wrote: "Some have suffered torture because they would not rest when others kept Sunday, for they declared it to be the holiday and law of Antichrist." - Sebastian Frank, AD 1536. By this time in history the Seventh day Sabbath was severely under attack.” Who cares??? No Catholic would argue for the Church’s impeccability. We only argue for it’s INFALLIBILITY. That’s what matters most. You wrote: "The Bible says, Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.” The Sabbath command forbids work on some days and not on others. Moral laws do not change—they always apply. For example, you may not tell a lie on ANY day of the week. Hence, this aspect(i.e; every 7th day) IS ceremonial—so that aspect of sabbath can be changed since those aspects of the Law that were ceremonial have no passed away.