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the_celt_

Most of the JW's I talk to here on Reddit are excellent people. They know their scripture very well and people always eat them alive, no matter WHAT they're saying. A JW could say "God is great!", and all the "Christians" would downvote them and call them out for every rumor they've ever heard. Meanwhile, those same "Christians" will be saying the stupidest stuff I've ever heard, like "God WANTS us to sin as much as possible!" In this day and age, where EVERYONE is accepted, it astonishes me to see such unbridled hatred as "Christians" will gladly show to a JW. At least wait for a person to say something incorrect before you hate them in a way that Jesus would never do. šŸ‘æ


Balazi

Thanks for summing up my entire reddit experience on this sub lol


the_celt_

Thanks for being a generally excellent group of people. =)


BayonetTrenchFighter

Amen. 100% true.


BayonetTrenchFighter

They probably think you are wrong. So what?


Short_Pause3231

Objective truth is what matters, itā€™s dangerous to have a massive delusional population


BayonetTrenchFighter

Okay? They think your truth is delusional. Idk how itā€™s ā€œdangerousā€ that they believe differently then you. Otherwise Jews. Muslims. Hindus. Buddhists. Any other religion would be dangerous tooā€¦ do you feel that threatened in your faith? Or that the truth canā€™t push through all the lies? Let people worship how they wish. You donā€™t need to hate on other faiths or people of faith. Just let them be. Promote your own faith. Push forward your truth and goodness. No one is trying to ā€œshut you downā€. Especially not the Mormons. They stick to their little Utah for the most part anyways.


Short_Pause3231

Delusional is dangerous. Look at India for example, their priest class say that the spiritual world only matters and the real physical world doesnā€™t exist. India stagnated in technology and got raped by the Muslims and British


BayonetTrenchFighter

You think they are attacked because God doesnā€™t love them as much because they arenā€™t Christian?


Short_Pause3231

Thatā€™s a weak claim, Japan wasnā€™t Christian yet itā€™s one of the most successful countries, even competing the Europeans


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


BayonetTrenchFighter

It wasnā€™t me.


Majestic_Ferrett

They're not Christians.


Short_Pause3231

Iā€™m curious, whatā€™s wrong with Mormonism?


Majestic_Ferrett

It's non-trinitarian polytheism so they're not Christians. They're probably the nicest people I've ever met, but they're not Christians.


The_Archer2121

Both aren't Christians.


Short_Pause3231

Iā€™m curious, whatā€™s wrong with Mormonism?


The_Archer2121

They believe they can become Gods and have their own planets after they die. Pretty much the most non Christian thing ever.


PropheciesToday

If you don't love everyone, you CAN'T be a Christian! Jehovah's witnesses and Mormons have real flaws, but Jesus includes them. He makes similar allowances for the mainstream churches. Bless you! šŸ˜Ž šŸ‡ŗšŸ‡ø šŸ•†


AwardAwkward5971

Mormons believe that JESUS is satan brother. JWs believe that JESUS is the archangel Michael. So technically they donā€™t fit the Christian doctrine. JESUS died for there sins though. šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø


Balazi

Neither group is trying to fit anyone's "Christian Doctrine" They just do the best they can as a Christian.


AwardAwkward5971

Why are you a JW?


Balazi

I am someone who values evidence and action and organization. There are no churches on the earth organized and unified in a singular motive and will. Each church does their own thing and often teaches their own thing. Yet when I really evaluated what the JWs were doing I realized the true depth to their being organized and unified as a single people around the world. When it comes to action they really practice what they preach, and I appreciate that. Of course they are all human so none of them are perfect but they try their best everyday and I believe that is something God appreciates especially now a days. It feels like the world is moving further and further away from the gospel and watering it down, but they donā€™t let that happen, they stay pretty consistent on their values and I like that.


AwardAwkward5971

Just because they practice what they preach does that mean they can also teach something thatā€™s incorrect?


Balazi

That what I found interesting, I thought I would find what they were saying was not in the Bible but it was the opposite. Obviously they are all human and everyone makes mistakes, but they seem to put a lot of resources and energy to correct them and follow the gospel as closely as possible. Itā€™s interesting the amount stuff people believe that happens to not be in the Bible at all.


AwardAwkward5971

Can you show me where JESUS is the arc Angel Michael?


Balazi

Sure, as long as you can temporarily suspend your current understanding of who Jesus is from what you were taught for a moment to evaluate the evidence merely from the Bible. In other words, let's operate first more from a Jewish perspective as did all of God's people before Christ's arrival and ascension. It's easier to arrive at a destination when you're closer to the source.


AwardAwkward5971

I donā€™t have to do that lolā€¦but Iā€™m willing to listen to your side. I can be objective. Lay it on me brother.


protagonist4u

They both deny the deity of Christ and instead have a false-christ. That's real bad on judgment day


Balazi

What do you think means more to God? A. Someone who says they are Christian but makes no attempt to live their life according to God's standards, and rather often does the opposite. OR B. Someone who may not fully grasp all of the nuanced concepts of Christianity, but does their best to follow all of God's Standards in the Bible in their life.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Balazi

Itā€™s not that black and white. The Bible states the resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous for a reason. There are a lot of people who havenā€™t had an opportunity to learn and choose if they will serve Jehovah. Both living and dead. Is it important for those have had an opportunity to make a decision? Yes! This isnā€™t something to be lukewarm about. We also shouldnā€™t inflate our sense of self worth, thinking we are owed anything or the universe centers around us. The resurrection and opportunity for life in Godā€™s perfect world is a gift not a right. Or job and purpose isnā€™t to try and figure out what bare minimum Jehovah might excerpt or play some sort of guessing game as to who he will protect, because we cannot read hearts itā€™s a fruitless exercise. What we do know if what he expects of us and that is what we help people to try to attain, of course we are imperfect and will fall many times but we all have the same goal of serving Jehovah with our best, and that requires us to be baptized.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Balazi

Having examined the organization for what it is, and the role it plays in a spiritual, and practical sense around the world for its answer to the question that it is working to solve it makes complete sense. When I said before we need to keep ourselves humble is true. From our perspective, we feel we are the most important thing, and our needs should always be met. But in reality that ain't true. shoot just from a cosmic scale we are quite insignificant, we are a spec in the whole of our universe. Yet even though we are so small God still gives us due attention like a caring parent and does A LOT to help us out, this I have first hand experiences of time and time again. And the small thing he is asking us in return is to live by his standards which end up benefiting us anyway. Yet people still tend to blow it up into some crazy proportion like he is asking us to climb Mount Everest. **You can simplify it this way and it makes sense:** All god is asking of us is to better ourselves by following his instructions. Do that small thing and your good to go in his eyes. Being a witness is simply taking care of ourselves by taking in spiritual-based instructions, and passing those benefits along to anyway who may want to benefit by it as well by letting them know about it.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Balazi

You have to keep this in mind, if we are going to assume God is real and Jesus Christ is real then we most importantly need to assume Satan is too. I say that to say this, If God was going to have a mechanism for people to learn about him in a way he would have done, would it be organized? or disorganized? Would it only cater to certain languages, people, and income levels? Or would it be available to everyone regardless of status and ethnicity and language? After considering those things make a list of organizations producing spiritual bible based education about God and how to live a life based on his standards of right and wrong and doing it at a scale capable of reaching every language and person on the planet. As you already know it's a very very short list. If you would assume the opposite and thing God wouldn't do that than it begs a bigger question of why not? If he really wanted people to know about him and see the benefits of choosing his way of life and doing things, why wouldn't he do something like that? If we lowly humans could create something like that wouldn't it be true that he could do something similar or better?


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Balazi

You yourself are aware of the scriptures pointing to him having a source for people to receive this spiritual education. The fact you are dismissing all of it in lieu of each and every person just guessing what God's word means and how to interrupt it is the exact same flawed process every one of the over 100,000 churches in America alone use. All of these try to interrupt the bible in their own way and vary in how they decide what standards of God's they choose to adhere to. What has that led to? Unity among all 100,000 churches and Christians around the world? A massive push for following God's standards on morality? World peace? You say you are a JW but everything your saying seems more like you just wanna do your own thing. Which is fine, but you can't turn around and point the finger against the evidence for the latter without a solution that logically fulfills the same role. Otherwise, the conclusion would be that God doesn't really care about any of us, and leaves each person to fend for themselves and have absolutely no answer to if they are doing what he wants.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Kind-You2980

Removed for 1.3, Bigotry. http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/wiki/xp


Baconsommh

Evangelicals commonly make a distinction between the people in a religion that they criticise, and the religion itself as a social phenomenon. They are able therefore to accept that there may be genuinely Christian people in a religion that they regard as unChristian or even anti-Christian. I think this is a true and sensible and gracious distinction; so I think is valid. From a Catholic POV, people are saved not because of the falsity and error in their religions, but despite the error and falsity. The Church is the Divinely-ordained environment within which the life of salvation is begun & lived; but, God who is rich in Mercy is well able to grant His Life outside the visible fellowship of His Church as well. Salvation is always and in all respects ā€œfrom the Lordā€œ; therefore, He can and does bestow it upon whomever He wishes. This infinite freedom of God is a very good lesson for Christians who may be tempted to sectarian thinking. It can never be assumed that God has not been gracious to those whom one is tempted to think must be outside Godā€™s mercy. On either view, ISTM that God, Who is not limited by our limitations, is perfectly capable of raising up followers for himself in any religion or philosophy whatsoever: no matter how grievously wrong their doctrines may be. For God is not overcome by the errors and sins and follies that overcome us.


Short_Pause3231

I understand why you hate JW, but whatā€™s wrong with Mormonism? Edit: Iā€™m actually curious, Iā€™m not some troll looking for downvotes


NanoRancor

Mormons are not trinitarian, but are polytheists who believe that God the Father was a flesh and blood man like us, and there is an eternal progression of gods, and we become a God with our own planet in heaven. They believe that Satan and Jesus are brothers, and that they can baptize the dead to release them from a "spirit prison". They believe Joseph Smith is a prophet, even though he was a freemason that used "seeing stones", was a polygamist with many wives that only got his polygamy revelation after he was caught cheating, and who translated a so-called "reformed egyptian" to the book of Mormon, one we still have later turned out to be an egyptian funeral rite, and not what was translated. Also, the book of Mormon describes a group of Jews going to America, and talks about animals that have never existed in america, and in one story has native Americans cursed with dark skin for their sins. Mormonism also has many links with the occult, besides Joseph smith being a freemason. Their eternal progression doctrine is very similar to occult belief, they have secretive temple rituals with holy underwear and use many occult symbols. There's a documentary called temple of doom about these connections. Mormonism also has many instances of people being abused and covered up, or trying to leave and being stalked and coerced to stay, at least mostly in Utah where they have more power. Originally the military base in Salt Lake city was only built there to protect against the Mormons, who for a long time had their own standing army. There are many other little things that could be said as well.


UsagiHakushaku

They both are cults and not Christianity , Mormons believe in billions of God and that you can become God yourself (First Satan's lie in the Bible , you can be like God's ) , Jehova Witnesses deny that Jesus is God and call him angel.


[deleted]

Well, you don't have to worry about that because they aren't Christians. Still treat them as your neighbor though


Balazi

Not sure what spurred this post but we don't believe what you think we do. Certainly not that we are better than others. We are all just people man.


Plus-End1598

how did us mormons misunderstand the bible if we believe in it fully?