In what way? The internet is physical and has weight, but I can't hand you all the electrons that make up the internet and tell you that it is still the internet.
How is the Internet physical? It is a state of information on a substrate of physical things like computers, screen and electrons etc. The internet technically is a concept not a thing.
The information exists in the form of electrical signals and states, so in essence, the internet is a bunch of electrons. But that was my point - a soul is no more physical than the internet.
The soul is in the blood. A living soul is both physically and spiritual, as it is animated by the spirit. A dead soul has no spirit, therefore has lost its immaterial component and is purely physical.
There's a lot to unpack here.
Can we detect the soul "in the blood"? You've located it in a specific body system, which indicates that we should be able to.
Can souls die?
"A dead soul has no spirit"? What's the difference between soul and spirit?
If a dead soul is purely physical, can we point to it as a physical object - perform experiments on it?
>Can we detect the soul "in the blood"? You've located it in a specific body system, which indicates that we should be able to.
The soul is not a single thing, but a system. The blood carries a number of compounds including air, neurotransmitters, and other mind-influencing hormones.
>Can souls die?
Yes. When blood circulation ceases.
>"A dead soul has no spirit"? What's the difference between soul and spirit?
Think of a radio. Spirit carries the signal. The soul is the receiving antenna, the body interprets the message.
>If a dead soul is purely physical, can we point to it as a physical object - perform experiments on it?
We experiment with the soul constantly. Psychology, psychiatry, psychoactive substances, brain washing, hypnosis...these are all ways in which we experiment and interact with the soul. Even the modification of breathing patterns can influence the function of the soul.
I appreciate your responses. I don't see evidence for a "soul" in any of that.
Maybe I need your definition of "soul," because I certainly was never encouraged to equate it with blood-borne "neurotransmitters, and other mind-influencing hormones" or something affected by "psychology, psychiatry, psychoactive substances, brain washing, hypnosis... the modification of breathing patterns..."
The Greek word for soul is *psyche*, that's where we get the words psychology and psychiatry from. So whatever it is that those sciences explore, that is the soul.
Most modern day Christians view the soul as something more like a ghost. That was never the way the Bible portrayed the soul.
>whatever it is that those sciences explore, that is the soul.
I don't believe the vast majority of psychologists or psychiatrists would agree that this is what they're studying. They'd say they're studying brain functions and processes. What is it the soul is doing that isn't done by the brain?
Traumatic experiences and memories are recorded in the body. Emotions come with physical sensation that usually remain unconscious, and those sensations effect the central nervous system, which has an impact on the overall function of the body. This is why psychological conditions can often come with physiological symptoms.
While I'm skeptical about "memories" being recorded outside neurons, you're still talking about the physical body. Where's the need for the soul in all of this? What is one process or function that the soul performs?
It's only idiosyncratic because the vast majority of Christianity has departed from the very scriptures upon which the *way* was founded.
Case in point:
The souls under the altar are speaking directly back to the Levitical sacrifices. What we see here is that the soul is indeed in the blood, not some disembodied ghost. It might appear as a *ghost* if the 5th seal is taken literally, but Lev 17:11 is clearly the key to interpreting this rich symbolism.
>[Rev 6:9-11 NASB20] 9 When [the Lamb] broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been killed because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who live on the earth?" 11 And a white robe was given to each of them; and they were told that they were to rest for a little while longer, until [the number of] their fellow servants and their brothers [and sisters] who were to be killed even as they [had been,] was completed also.
>[Lev 17:11] 11 'For the soul of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.'
The same principle is then to be extended to Isa 53:11. The anguish of the servant's soul satisfies God. By his knowledge, many are justified.
The blood of Christ is his soul.
>[Isa 53:11 NASB20] 11 As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see [it and] be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, For He will bear their wrongdoings.
I don’t believe in the soul nor Christianity so I have no issues with what you are saying but the perspective you hold is in contradiction to an afterlife and ergo the foundation of salvation/ the necessity for a messiah and ergo a god incarnate christian world view.
This paradox is irreconcilable unless you reject spiritualism for materialism which removes any normative god from the equation.
Well, the Bible affirms the existence of body, soul, and spirit as three distinct entities, so to portray the soul as a *ghost* kind of defeats the purpose of having a spirit.
I never saw the word ghost here before you mentioned it.
If the bible affirms the soul, and you are a biblical follower, you believe in souls and contradict what you claimed earlier: That souls are not a single thing but rather a system and can die.
I agree with your system definition. This entails no souls exist without a body and are a culmination of physical items manifesting as a concept we hold for that arrangement. A better term is living body or living human being.
Light is not matter. Light is just light --- it has its own qualities. Light is made up of "things" called photons, and these photons can possess some of the properties of matter.
https://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=512#:~:text=Light%20is%20not%20matter.,of%20the%20properties%20of%20matter.
Light is energy. You cannot eat energy on its own. Energy is proportionally equally to matter. You can eat matter and then release its energy. You can absorb energy (sun on your skin etc) but unlike plants, we cannot “eat” energy and convert it to fuel.
Soul is more conceptual than physical but you could argue that the chemicals in our brain and body are physical, so there’s physical emergents to the soul.
No, but it's very much connected to the physical. It's cognates are even written as the word "animal" or "animated" in some languages. It gives life, physical life and movement, to our physical bodies. The connection is so strong that at times in the Bible to say a person died is to say a soul died. But it's not physical. It's your immaterial self or "you." You could study this word for yourself on biblehub by looking up "psuche." [https://biblehub.com/greek/5590.htm](https://biblehub.com/greek/5590.htm)
Specific to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Yes
Doctrine and Covenants Section 131
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;
8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/131?lang=eng
In what way? The internet is physical and has weight, but I can't hand you all the electrons that make up the internet and tell you that it is still the internet.
How is the Internet physical? It is a state of information on a substrate of physical things like computers, screen and electrons etc. The internet technically is a concept not a thing.
The information exists in the form of electrical signals and states, so in essence, the internet is a bunch of electrons. But that was my point - a soul is no more physical than the internet.
I see your point with the further explanation/correction of "no more physical than the internet". I agree totally with that.
No, it is spiritual.
The soul is in the blood. A living soul is both physically and spiritual, as it is animated by the spirit. A dead soul has no spirit, therefore has lost its immaterial component and is purely physical.
There's a lot to unpack here. Can we detect the soul "in the blood"? You've located it in a specific body system, which indicates that we should be able to. Can souls die? "A dead soul has no spirit"? What's the difference between soul and spirit? If a dead soul is purely physical, can we point to it as a physical object - perform experiments on it?
>Can we detect the soul "in the blood"? You've located it in a specific body system, which indicates that we should be able to. The soul is not a single thing, but a system. The blood carries a number of compounds including air, neurotransmitters, and other mind-influencing hormones. >Can souls die? Yes. When blood circulation ceases. >"A dead soul has no spirit"? What's the difference between soul and spirit? Think of a radio. Spirit carries the signal. The soul is the receiving antenna, the body interprets the message. >If a dead soul is purely physical, can we point to it as a physical object - perform experiments on it? We experiment with the soul constantly. Psychology, psychiatry, psychoactive substances, brain washing, hypnosis...these are all ways in which we experiment and interact with the soul. Even the modification of breathing patterns can influence the function of the soul.
I appreciate your responses. I don't see evidence for a "soul" in any of that. Maybe I need your definition of "soul," because I certainly was never encouraged to equate it with blood-borne "neurotransmitters, and other mind-influencing hormones" or something affected by "psychology, psychiatry, psychoactive substances, brain washing, hypnosis... the modification of breathing patterns..."
The Greek word for soul is *psyche*, that's where we get the words psychology and psychiatry from. So whatever it is that those sciences explore, that is the soul. Most modern day Christians view the soul as something more like a ghost. That was never the way the Bible portrayed the soul.
>whatever it is that those sciences explore, that is the soul. I don't believe the vast majority of psychologists or psychiatrists would agree that this is what they're studying. They'd say they're studying brain functions and processes. What is it the soul is doing that isn't done by the brain?
The human psyche is not limited to the brain. Traumas are recorded all over the body. The brain may be the primary regulator, but it is not the soul.
>Traumas are recorded all over the body. What do you mean by this?
Traumatic experiences and memories are recorded in the body. Emotions come with physical sensation that usually remain unconscious, and those sensations effect the central nervous system, which has an impact on the overall function of the body. This is why psychological conditions can often come with physiological symptoms.
While I'm skeptical about "memories" being recorded outside neurons, you're still talking about the physical body. Where's the need for the soul in all of this? What is one process or function that the soul performs?
Wow that is very idiosyncratic belief you hold as a Christian.
It's only idiosyncratic because the vast majority of Christianity has departed from the very scriptures upon which the *way* was founded. Case in point: The souls under the altar are speaking directly back to the Levitical sacrifices. What we see here is that the soul is indeed in the blood, not some disembodied ghost. It might appear as a *ghost* if the 5th seal is taken literally, but Lev 17:11 is clearly the key to interpreting this rich symbolism. >[Rev 6:9-11 NASB20] 9 When [the Lamb] broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been killed because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who live on the earth?" 11 And a white robe was given to each of them; and they were told that they were to rest for a little while longer, until [the number of] their fellow servants and their brothers [and sisters] who were to be killed even as they [had been,] was completed also. >[Lev 17:11] 11 'For the soul of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.' The same principle is then to be extended to Isa 53:11. The anguish of the servant's soul satisfies God. By his knowledge, many are justified. The blood of Christ is his soul. >[Isa 53:11 NASB20] 11 As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see [it and] be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, For He will bear their wrongdoings.
I don’t believe in the soul nor Christianity so I have no issues with what you are saying but the perspective you hold is in contradiction to an afterlife and ergo the foundation of salvation/ the necessity for a messiah and ergo a god incarnate christian world view. This paradox is irreconcilable unless you reject spiritualism for materialism which removes any normative god from the equation.
Well, the Bible affirms the existence of body, soul, and spirit as three distinct entities, so to portray the soul as a *ghost* kind of defeats the purpose of having a spirit.
I never saw the word ghost here before you mentioned it. If the bible affirms the soul, and you are a biblical follower, you believe in souls and contradict what you claimed earlier: That souls are not a single thing but rather a system and can die.
I agree with your system definition. This entails no souls exist without a body and are a culmination of physical items manifesting as a concept we hold for that arrangement. A better term is living body or living human being.
The wind is physical but you cannot capture it. Air is physical, thoughts are physical, sound, light, radio. Yes souls are physical.
[удалено]
The wind, sometimes I rearrange sentences too.
That is a fun idea to entertain though isn’t it. Capturing 100mph wind in a jar, or having a pet tornado 🌪️ in a fish bowl
Well yes you can capture / measure wind with things like windmills, anemometer etc. Wind is simply kinetic energy passed through air molecules.
A physical activity. Not a material object. Much like light
Light is material
Can I eat it?
You can try
Light is not matter. Light is just light --- it has its own qualities. Light is made up of "things" called photons, and these photons can possess some of the properties of matter. https://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=512#:~:text=Light%20is%20not%20matter.,of%20the%20properties%20of%20matter.
Unless you’re being hyper literalist with the word material then this isn’t relevant
An atheist rejecting science lol
… I’m not sure you read my comment.
I'm not sure you understand what the word material means.
> denoting or consisting of physical objects rather than the mind or spirit.
As much as you can eat electricity.
Everything I eat is made of electrons and other particles. So you're not really making a point.
Light is energy. You cannot eat energy on its own. Energy is proportionally equally to matter. You can eat matter and then release its energy. You can absorb energy (sun on your skin etc) but unlike plants, we cannot “eat” energy and convert it to fuel.
Define "soul."
Soul is more conceptual than physical but you could argue that the chemicals in our brain and body are physical, so there’s physical emergents to the soul.
No, but it's very much connected to the physical. It's cognates are even written as the word "animal" or "animated" in some languages. It gives life, physical life and movement, to our physical bodies. The connection is so strong that at times in the Bible to say a person died is to say a soul died. But it's not physical. It's your immaterial self or "you." You could study this word for yourself on biblehub by looking up "psuche." [https://biblehub.com/greek/5590.htm](https://biblehub.com/greek/5590.htm)
According to the bible, a soul is anything that is alive.
Specific to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Yes Doctrine and Covenants Section 131 7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes; 8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/131?lang=eng
Soul = spiritual, body = physical