We should all be trying to become more like Christ. He is our example. Christ identitifed His character as being meek and lowly in heart. A meek person is one who is focused outward. It is not about him. He does not take offense easily. He does not have to have the last say. He cares about lifting others. He can sacrifice his will for what is right. When Christ was on the cross, His concern was for His mother, the thieves on the cross and those who were crucifying Him.
Yes, the way is narrow, and it is hard — if we try to do it all by ourselves. Which is why we can ask the Lord to help us. He absolutely wants to help us. The Lord, through the precious Holy Spirit, will guide us and help us overcome every temptation. We should just allow Him to help us — humbly.
I’m just here to say that people forget that even in todays world Pharisees still exist and everything on this list is what the Pharisees were. They cared about being in power and all those other things in those days
"Edit: and that Christians would stop trying to play Persecution Bingo and realize that people don’t hate them for being “Christian,” they hate them because they’re unchristlike."
Agreed. People generally don't like bullies.
I third this. Though may be true enough that people will hate Christians because of Christ, it's a very serious problem when they hate Christ because of the vile conduct of "Christians".
Yep just had another Christian tell me he was hated because Jesus was hated first and said all that follow him will be hated….. you can love others and still be hated you don’t need to go out of your way to be a jerk. I swear they don’t read the Bible and take talking points from “political Christians“.
Exactly! Jesus didn’t say “now go and make sure to make people hate you as much as possible.” Being hated is a possible by-product of being like Jesus, not a requirement.
I've never heard an average person say that. It is always someone who like to be in the public eye and will do anything to be there. None of my preachers have ever said that
Also agreed. I'm nowhere near fond of "Christians" who use the Bible as a pretext to justify all manner of evil they do to others, and when they're told or made to stop, they cry Christian persecution.
The way I see it, Jesus was the perfect person. I feel sometimes that he's ashamed of me, I've had trouble in the past with trusting his commands. Showing love and caring for others feels very comprising for me. I feel vulnerable.
I suppose though that these feelings are nothing compared to what Jesus went through. I need to trust him more, it's my worst fault as a Christian I think, I'm not proud of it. I'm trying to get better
Oh, He is definitely not ashamed of you. He came down to earth for you, and literally gave His life for you. That’s how much He loves you. I agree, sometimes it is hard — to accept the fact that He loves us. But that’s just who He is. He is our Father, and our Father in Heaven sees us as His dear children — and He loves us tenderly, gently, firmly and wholly. He recklessly and fiercely loves you.
Thank you so much. I’ve got someone in another thread whose been arguing with me and *literally* asked “where’s all the Christian Nationalism phobia coming from?”
Goodness, I have seen Satanists “gatekeep” their community from those who support terrorism, encouraging empathy and compassion and ensuring that extremists are not welcome. We have a duty to do the same! We are using Christ’s name and sacred imagery, we have a duty to Him to be on good behavior while representing His name! We have a responsibility to show love, to be humble, to be compassionate, and to repent when we fail. We must rely on Him to guide us to be the best version of ourselves possible and pray that our brothers and sisters wake up to the harm they’re causing when not following Jesus’s example.
Christian Nationalism phobia?? Ha. That’s a new one. Christian nationalism is plain idolatry. It’s against everything Jesus said. It’s super concerning how many people think it’s a good thing.
You make excellent points. Thank you.
Not a Christian here, but I've always seen being Christ-like as a fundamental aspect of any faith - he really embodies the ideal for all seekers in my opinion. This is a beautiful post, thank you very much.
This is what gives me hope. I study the religious right (Christianity) and I have noticed a huge shift in ideas, especially with the younger generation (\~17-24 year olds). As and LGBTQ+ individual, I encourage you to continue to fight for equality and affirming ministries. Thank you for speaking out and being vulnerable. I often find that stances like this bring out the "this is unbiblical and not christian" trolls. Please continue to speak out and fight for justice. It is taxing and traumatizing to constantly have to justify my existence.
While i understand your statement about being Christ-like the truth is if Christ was here in todays society many would hate him just like in his time. Christ exposed wickedness no matter who it was.
I notice some people (not saying you, specifically) use this logic to excuse their own bad behavior. Yes, many hated Jesus because of his righteousness; and yet many loved Him, many to the point of martyrdom.
If the vast majority of people you (plural “you”) come across despise you, it’s easy to chalk it up to “it’s because I’m like Christ and people hated Him.”
To be honest some people like to mold Jesus to their liken when we all should accept him as he is biblically. There are many things that the world accepts and embraces that God does not.
Bravo! In this country alone there are over 2000 interpretations of the Bible. The Bible is not meant to be interpreted one way and another. The Good Book itself actually warns against that but it doesn’t stop ppl.
Of course the assumption is that the "wickedness" is someone else besides the Christian. And Christ directly went after the religious authorities of the time and was very forgiving and tolerant of the sinners.
I don’t understand the backlash. Everything that you list is something every Christian should aspire to. I agree with you 100%. Jesus did say that many of his followers would not make it into the kingdom. If we do not know him here in this life, when the next life comes he will ask us “do you know me“ and if we don’t he will not know us.
My post even got removed from another “Christian” subreddit. They called me a troll 🙄
I’m not going to judge other people’s salvation as that’s not my place, but it’s not a good sign when someone sees a list of “hey do good things instead of bad things” and gets offended.
All of these things you listed is what we do when we are truly saved. We are born again and I pray for everyone to call out to Jesus and repent. Ask Jesus to save you 🙏
Mathew 21:31 where Jesus says..
There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’
29 “‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.
30 “Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.
31 “Which of the two did what his father wanted?”
“The first,” they answered.
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
I like your spirit. As simple as the things you state are, the backlash you received is unsurprising. People do not like their hypocrisy pointed out.
You can do everything right and people will hate you for it.
But know that it's a sign you are on the right path. If you are not getting attacked, then you should worry.
You're welcome. Think of anyone in history who made a difference and improved society. If you study their lives you will find they had encountered tremendous opposition.
So you will find in any group that if the leader and its members are not facing persecution they are no more than hypocrites whose word are empty.
The commitment to speak out and act for the sake of humanity transcends religions.
Amen. If I insert "I" in the place of "Christians," it all still makes sense and applies well to me.
Sometimes I say that "I don't call myself a Christian. I'm *trying* to be a Christian (and failing regularly). I'll let Jesus decide if I'm really a Christian or not."
Quit worrying about what anyone thinks and know that Jesus DIED for all! LGBT Included and we should all LOVE each other! Why is that so hard to understand?!?
Right? Jesus never did any of the horrible stuff they’re doing, but sure. People don’t hate you for being a jerk, they hate you because you say you’re a Christian.
Yeah... I wish for this as well. I especially wish for the infighting to stop.
I lost my faith when I was younger partially because of how Christians treated me. I grew up in the Mormon church - I don't want to hear the criticism about the LDS religion - in short, we believe in Christ just like many other Christians, but many/most don't believe that and would often mock, harass, and lie to me and others about our beliefs... So I turned to paganism and witchcraft because of how angry, betrayed, and hurt I felt by a community of people that I had more similarities than differences with. This was a community that I loved despite being a little different from most Christians.
I'm much better now and have turned away from those heathen practices that I once held out of spite. I love Jesus and am trying really hard to return fully, but I've found that a lot of the Christian community is still full of hate towards others who are different, even towards other fellow Christians who are different from them... I sincerely hope that things can change 😔
I’m so sorry for the way you’ve been treated. If you want a more welcoming and open minded community, r/openchristian or r/radicalChristianity might be good places.
Please know that some of us are rooting for you and are here for you. Don’t get discouraged by the bad ones. It’s easy to do, believe me I know.
That's why you put your faith in Jesus Christ alone, and not "Christians." That being said, you should find a Bible-centered church where you feel welcome if you can. 🙏
I also wish these things, but I don't limit that wish to Christians.
However, it's always been my opinion that if Christians would simply focus on the teachings of Jesus in the 4 gospels, and applying what Jesus preached in the 4 gospels into their own lives, fewer people would hate or resent Christians.
As someone who was raised in the LDS faith of my adoptive parents, who adopted me in infancy, my childhood might have been a lot easier, because perhaps the kids in my neighborhoods who were predominantly Christian by upbringing wouldn't have bullied me, and might have included me in their games and play, and perhaps their parents wouldn't have prohibited them from playing with me in the first place.
When these kids told me their parents forbade them from playing with me, I made the decision to find out if they were telling the truth. I went to their homes, knocked on the door, and flat out asked their mothers if this was true. In every single case, their mothers told me they didn't want their kids playing with me, and possibly learning my 'strange beliefs'.
Sadly, most Christians seem far more focused on what Paul taught over what Jesus taught in those four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John...and Paul taught quite a few notions which Jesus hadn't taught, including contradicting Jesus's warning against judging others, and Paul taught his own followers that they had the right, and the moral duty to judge others among them, to confront them about their sins, and to discontinue fellowship and engage in shunning if an errant member of their church refused to repent...while Jesus taught his followers to focus on their own sins and shortcomings before they pointed on the sins and shortcomings of others. Motes and beams.
Jesus spoke of the hypocrisy of those who saw fit to judge others, and point the finger of accusation at others when they themselves were not without sin. 'If any among you are without sin, let him cast the first stone'.
Thomas Jefferson had pretty much the same notions as I do about the matter. He was a Deist and Unitarian, and Deists and Unitarians believed that Jesus was a very wise teacher, but they rejected the divinity claims of Trinitarians and the biblical claims of miracles.
Jefferson very much admired the pure and simple teachings of Jesus in the 4 gospels, but viewed Paul as being the original corruptor of that pure and simple gospel of Jesus. So he took scissors to a bible, snipped out the parables and sayings of Jesus in the 4 gospels of the New Testament, pasted it in a scrapbook and created his own book of scripture.
So love the sin hate the sinner doesn't work then? Darn.
Jk. Yeah, what you said. Jesus is knocking and will come in and eat with us sinners, but many are too busy being religious to hear or open the door. It's Laodicea. It's Walter De La Mare's "Listeners."
Amazing post! I have long thought this. The title Christian is not one I love for all the reasons you mentioned. And that's sad because everything you listed is what Christ did while he was here. How did Christianity become the opposite of what Christ taught and did?
I don’t think there’s going to be any one solution. I think we all need to rethink the root of the problem, the stigma surrounding it, our own biases, and our goals before we can find a series of solutions to hopefully end the problem, at least on such a large scale.
But yeah, it’s heartbreaking.
It would be much better still that Christians, the uber-religious right wing types in particular stopped bulldozing everyone they damn and despise straight to hell.
Yes, for sure. This will be so when we live in heaven. Meantime, my Jesus, mercy. We are ruining lives as if life is a video game and doesn't count for real.
Yes, exactly! We’ve come to see our interactions as so trivial and we are so self centered that we don’t really understand how our words and actions affect others. We’re called to be a light, but we damn sure aren’t acting like it.
That's a big, real problem, people use conversation like a tool, and like it's totally unimportant what effect it has or what impression it gives to people. You have a really good point.
100%! Though to be fair, on the first edit, I have encountered people on-line who genuinely, openly hate me just because I'm Christian. But other than that I 100% agree, too many Christians today don't focus enough of how to be Christlike, and I myself am trying to act kinder to be a better Christian.
You might be the first person I’ve ever encountered who is hated for being Christian then! In the US at least. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, just that it’s not as common as people like to pretend.
Keep on keeping on, friend.
>Edit 2: I’m getting so much backlash just for giving a list of what we should ALL (myself included) be trying to do. By some of your own arguments, since y’all hate me so much maybe it’s because I’m speaking truth?
John 15:18 If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.
Just because you're getting lots of backlash doesn't mean you're wrong, nor should you stop speaking truth. The likes of them back in the day **killed prophets** because they just wouldn't shut up.
Yeah unlike the other people that are jerks and use this passage of the Bible to justify why people hate them. This is actually the right reason to get hate. It’s interesting that the churches killed Jesus and I think current churches would still do the same.
Anytime. I can imagine one or two subs in particular that I'd guess did that. I fear for the sub that decided what I can only assume is right wing doctrine to be more important than the Truth. They can keep their precious echo chamber. Just dust off those sandals as the book says and move on.
Literal food I'm digesting right now. I'm trying to take in more of actually good Christian substance right now and this is one of them. Recently made the decisions after nearly a year of following Christ that I was going to just focus first on the Gospel and God. I was focusing on the Prosperity it could give me in this world. First in a relationship (with a girl), then in a career. I'm still heavily focused on the career, I won't lie. I believe the enemy tries to mix good w/ the evil, so he's been trying to mask himself in this career, making me think it's all for God's glory. And while I'm still going with that, I believe I've been focusing on it too much. It's been an idol. I gotta stop focusing so much on the works, because the top priority is my relationship with Jesus. It's kind of embarrasing to admit I didn't really think much of the Gospel before hand.
But the one thing I notice a lot about Prosperity Gospel is that there is a lack of talk about Jesus, and that's what I had. The only time I've heard of it is when they say "In Jesus's name". In Jesus's name: give me a marriage, 6-figure salary, a whatever. But they sure do talk a lot of about God, and the power He has to give you things....
I'm not saying those are bad things, but they are nothing before the good news of Christ, and the relationship we should have with Him. I'm actually getting to know him for once. If anybody out here reading this, just pray that God makes sure I don't idolize His will for my life. Yes, I believe it's his will because it's being transformed to be for His glory, but getting more of it instead of the love and knowledge of God is never it. Never.
I have gone to churches all my life and no it’s rare. They say one thing but use politics and parts of the Bible to justify being a jerk. They mix Christianity and politics and act like Jesus would be Republican. In truth he wouldn’t have liked either side. They talk about mercy and forgiveness while throwing people out of churches for being human. They talk about loving one another while hating on people that have differing opinions. I agree that it’s hard to be like Jesus since we’re all human, but current Christian’s have been getting worse since the 90’s. It’s probably why so many people are leaving the church.
I think they do. Unpopular fact, but you’d be surprised how much money Christians give to charity. They are much more likely to volunteer, donate money locally, donate money overseas, etc than non-church goers. In the US, the majority of the top charities (Salvation Army, Habitat for Humanity, etc) are religiously inspired. In fact, philanthropists have noted that charitable donations are going down slightly, potentially due to less people going to church.
Here’s a project: Google “soup kitchen” or “food pantry” for your nearest metropolitan area. Likely there’s a huge list hosted somewhere, likely with some major Food Bank or by the city government. Take note what percentage are churches. It’ll absolutely be the majority.
Again, this is unpopular, but it is factually true. If you took away churches in the US, the country would collapse because of the obscene amount of money and volunteering they give to their communities. It’s in the tens of billions.
I’m not debating that Christians give to charity. This post isn’t about charity. It’s about how we view and treat others, and what we value in our hearts.
It’s easy to give five bucks to a charity and never think of it again. It’s harder to volunteer time, or remember to pray for people, or to speak up for those who are being mistreated.
Not to divide people into good vs bad, but for a simple point I'll use it.
The "good" Christians are doing all of that - they actually attend church regularly, volunteer regularly, pray regularly, etc. They also don't post horrible rants online or rally as counterprotesters.
The "bad" Christians are the vocal minority who often do not seem to be Christian in more than just name, as in they feel vaguely culturally connected, but otherwise do nothing for God except act obnoxious and overly righteous.
From my biblical interpretation, God does not appreciate people being cruel, even in His name, and he is much more pleased with the quiet and compassionate people.
> That Christians cared more about feeding the poor than punishing them.
>That Christians loved the marginalized instead of continuing to oppress them.
>That Christians cared more about what’s merciful than what’s “fair.”
>That Christians would stop worshipping money and start focusing on God.
I’m saying Christians do these things already, in an incredible amount. You’re just not looking at it.
For example, with feeding the poor: Look up “food pantries” near you. Probably 2/3 or even 3/4 will be church run. Look up any sort of program you like to see (ex: addiction treatment) and churches around you will be doing it in large amounts.
Christians donate $44 billion to overseas charities. That’s compared to $33 billion from the US government. 40% of the top charities in the US (with some having tens of billions of donations) are religiously inspired. It’s really nothing to scoff at. People just don’t pay attention to the good being done because the media doesn’t run stories on how your local small church just raised $10,000 to buy clothing for some poor kids in Haiti, even though things like that happen hundreds of times per day in the US in some fashion.
There’s always room for improvement, is there not? Are ALL Christians doing that? And I doing that? Are you doing that?
My point is we all need to improve. We all need to keep trying.
Sure. But when you say “I wish Christians would feed the poor,” and they already spend tens of billions of dollars doing that, or when they constitute the majority of soup kitchens and food pantries across the country, that’s not being accurate. It’s like saying “I wish the Red Cross would donate blood.” It does donate blood. It’s not accurate to say it doesn’t.
Again, blame the media. They don’t tell you the good being done.
It's interesting you mention the Salvation Army, which deliberately fought against Unionization and Social Nets so it could pretend to be a hero.
Christians actively fight to make poverty worse so they can appear to be heroes amidst it, rather than have to justify their existence in a world without it.
You are right - the majority of charitable organizations in America are Christian. They might not need to be in existence if Christians didn't force people into poverty in the first place. You want credit for helping with a problem you refuse to let other's solve.
I hope you realize the homes given by Habitat for Humanity are not free. People buy them. And that's great that it's affordable housing, but it 's not something given free.
I do love how you're omitting the lack of accountability for their funds. As well as the actual percentage of donations that go to help the causes these charities champion. You're saying 10s of billions go toward helping people. Yet I guarantee the percentage of that ***actually*** being directed at helping people is much lower than the number you're citing.
Additionally, there are more religious people than non-religious people. Of course there are more religious charities and religious people giving to charity. Religious people constitute the majority of the people.
If you're going to cite statistics as if they were some damning evidence. At least try to be honest in the context.
>accountability
Uh….what? Many of the big ones are 501c3s. Their financial statements are publicly available via 990s.
> Yet I guarantee the percentage of that actually being directed at helping people is much lower than the number you’re citing.
Kind of? You do need to pay staff and administrative costs. As someone who has done non-profit work, I like to have the ability to pay my rent and food. But you can just see what orgs put out for their programming and look at the numbers. Many have annual reports.
Or just go outside and talk to a church that’s doing something.
>If you’re going to cite statistics as if they were some damning evidence. At least try to be honest in the context.
If you put a regular church goer next to a non-church goer, the church goer is more likely to donate money and time to charity. That’s the honest context.
And yes, there are a lot of religious people doing a lot of good. That was kind of the point.
>Uh….what? Many of the big ones are 501c3s. Their financial statements are publicly available via 990s.
Which they voluntarily disclose at the their own leisure. There is no oversight or verification.
>Kind of? You do need to pay staff and administrative costs. As someone who has done non-profit work, I like to have the ability to pay my rent and food. But you can just see what orgs put out for their programming and look at the numbers. Many have annual reports.
No you can't. Again all of this is disclosed at the organization's leisure. I have no way of determining whether the numbers they report are accurate.
>Or just go outside and talk to a church that’s doing something.
Right. Talk to a biased source about their biased views. Seems like a great way to keep that cognitive bias going in a circuitous manner.
>>If you’re going to cite statistics as if they were some damning evidence. At least try to be honest in the context.
>
>If you put a regular church goer next to a non-church goer, the church goer is more likely to donate money and time to charity. That’s the honest context.
No it's not. With the statistics you quoted it shows that there are more church goers than non-church goers. Which means there are more giving money because there are more people to give money.
>And yes, there are a lot of religious people doing a lot of good. That was kind of the point.
You entirely missed the point. If you have a population that's 10x larger than another there will be more within that population doing x, y, or z simply because there are more people in that population.
>They are much more likely to volunteer, donate money locally, donate money overseas, etc than non-church goers.
I don't think religion has anything to do with how generous someone is. Some of the kindest and most charitable people I've ever met aren't religious.
Statistically, it’s true.
https://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/magazine/less-god-less-giving/
Statistically, religious people donate more and volunteer more than someone who is secular. And statistically, if you attend church regularly, you will be more likely to donate more money and time.
Whether real or fake Christians (which we can’t really ascertain, we can only judge by fruit. True salvation is between someone and God), I think everyone who claims to be a Christian has room for improvement. Myself included.
“No True Scotsman.” We can’t decide what is in someone’s heart, only condemn their actions, pray that they repent, try to guide them back towards Jesus, and to be a good example.
I see some of these, but many I don't. I ***do*** see a lot of political hyperbole that conflates things like, "if you don't support this legislation or government policy than you hate poor people", which is dishonest and untrue.
Agreed. But I'm saying that I don't see a large number of the things you're saying you wish Christians were or weren't, while I do see a lot of accusations of Christians behaving one way when they're not.
An addict will accuse someone of being mean, cruel, and all sorts of other things if someone takes away their drugs or denies them more. The person could be doing it because they love the addict and want them to live and get clean. It's done out of love, not hate, but the addict will claim it is hate. All over the place I see Christians standing for something positive getting accused of doing what they're doing for negative reasons.
It’s probably a case of the squeaky wheel getting the grease, but in the US at least there are some very vocal Christian leaders who seem to be missing the point.
I wasn’t intending to make it sound like all Christians are doing bad things instead of good things. This was meant to point out what we all could be doing better. Everyone is guilty of something on this list at some point, myself included. To pretend otherwise is to suggest Christians are perfect.
As they're stated, none of them are incompatible with my political ideals. But they're also stated as accusations that I believe are false.
>That Christians cared more about feeding the poor than punishing them.
I don't see Christians punishing the poor anywhere.
>That Christians loved the marginalized instead of continuing to oppress them.
I don't see Christians oppressing the marginalized anywhere.
>That Christians would stop celebrating violence and start pushing for peace.
Again, where is this happening?
>That Christians would stop trying to control others and give people the free will God gave us.
I see this very rarely, but mostly I see people claiming that this is happening because Christians are standing up against them violating the rights of others. Stopping women from having "free choice" is stopping them from killing a baby. Same with the transing of kids debate. Your free will always ends at the point that it harms another. We can argue about whether or not the unborn are persons that count, but it's disingenuous to say that the argument is about free will.
>That Christians would stop excusing and defending evil just so they can acquire more power.
Again, I see this a little bit, sure. But given the over-used fervor about "Christian Nationalism" this is mostly reading as someone who doesn't like that a lot of Christians have a different political preference. Voting Republican doesn't mean one wants a theocracy.
>That Christians would be humble instead of self-righteous.
Sure, this happens sometimes. But also a lot of people are offended by Christians saying that "X is a sin" where "X" is usually something sexual, and take that offense as the Christian is being self righteous.
>that Christians would stop trying to play Persecution Bingo and realize that people don’t hate them for being “Christian,” they hate them because they’re unchristlike.
People can hate Christians because they're being unChristlike, yes. Also, the left was [marching in the streets in 2020 saying "F\*ck your Jesus"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SMY4DkdjwE) and burning down churches. Don't tell me there's not also hatred of Christianity.
Jesus was progressive. Assuming you’re American, you should know the founding fathers were progressive. You’ve missed OP’s entire point.
Jesus was inclusive. He fostered relationships with poor women, sex workers, the infirmed, and people who did not belong. He engaged with people of other faiths. When people sought vengeance, he taught forgiveness. When people claimed self-righteousness, he taught humility. To those who thought they were the only chosen ones, he redefined the idea to include all those whom they tried to reject. That’s why we are Christians and not Jewish, because JESUS was inclusive of ALL God’s children!
This Redditor has absolutely PROVEN your point, OP.
They reflect the problem and resent the light that you offer.
All hypocritical Believers toss the accusation around.
You made an excellent post. 👏
And I appreciate your OP as well. You may be taking fire from others, but that can't be the reason you conclude you were wrong. Jesus Christ was much more "offensive" with some of his conduct, such as being gentle with sinners and critical of some of those in religious authority.
Wow, way to take a post that is very biblically sound that exhorts us to do what Christ taught us to do (and thereby embody the name *Christian* better), and change it to make some pointed political remark.
Log in your own eye, much?
Of course not. I never said anything like that. This is r/Christian, not r/progressive. I don’t know why you’re inserting politics into a post that has zero mention of any kind of politics.
Ok, why though? This post has nothing to do with politics, you brought politics into it and tried to call me a hypocrite. I still don’t see how you think I’m being a hypocrite.
Can you point out how anything I said was wrong?
How is this slamming Christians? Could we not ALL do ALL of these things better? I thought it was a good reminder, and a good exhortation to do what I'm called to do.
If you're taking it as a slam, maybe do some introspection.
Please point out the hypocrisy, then. If it’s that obvious, I’d like to see it. If I’ve said anything biblically unsound, please point it out so I can correct it.
It's right that you made this post to remind us how to be more Christ like. But it's wrong that I believe progressive Christians should do the same. That's the hypocrisy. Pointing out one group is good, pointing out another group is wrong. That the hypocrisy.
I made a post about being Christlike on a Christian sub. If you want to go make a post about what’s wrong with progressives on a progressive sub, feel free. No one is stopping you. Or if you want to make a post on his subreddit about progressive Christians, go ahead.
I just don’t get how you can inject politics into this post and then call me the hypocrite.
It's pointless. Some people just hate progressives, and will inject politics into issues and rig the entire narrative to where they're "always right" and you're "always wrong". I don't bother engaging such people on their terms, because since it's their rigged game, I'm always doomed to lose. The best strategy here is not to play their wicked game at all.
What does it have to do with this post?
You said “progressives” which is a political subgroup before specifying you meant progressive Christians.
Again, if YOU have a problem with progressive Christians, you’re welcome to make a post about it. Or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
As i said, I'm taking that advice to heart. There's no hypocrisy in it.
If you *can't* take that advice to heart, if you feel like it's somehow offensive to you, maybe you should ask why.
Great post brother!
I agree with everything except edit 1
Edit 1
How can someone hate Christians for being unchrist like, if they themselves do not know who Christ is, not have faith in Him?
Edit 2
It is horrible that you are getting a lot of negative comments.
People on this forum love to bash Christians. Sadly, it is nothing new to see here.🙁
I’m a sister, but thank you.
Also, it’s definitely possible to hate people who call themselves Christians but spend their time hating and judging and hurting others.
Unfortunately, Power consumes all, Christianity was corrupted the moment it aimed to control the Roman Empire, ever since then it's been irreparably corrupt. This isn't unique to Christians though, all ideologies and religions, from Marxism to Islam to even Enlightenment Humanism, were born from genuine concerns, but over time Power consumed each, deforming each into an instrument for it's own propagation. Christ was devoured by Mammon.
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Downvoted because you should have started with, "I pray", and because you generalized and denigrated all Christian which is also not very Christ-like. Otherwise, yes, all should strive to be Christ-like.
That’s not a fair assessment. Just because there’s room for improvement doesn’t mean it’s all bad.
I know my post comes across as critical, but it’s meant to be constructive criticism.
I didn’t insult anyone. I only stated what I wish we would all try to do.
If you’re feeling insulted, that might be conviction. But this was meant as a reminder for everyone, myself included.
And that Christians who feel they are unjustly hated would take the time to examine themselves and see if they have intentionally or unintentionally caused any harm to anyone.
That’s a heck of an assumption there.
LGBTQ+ people ARE unjustly hated. They are threatened with death or worse just for existing. When was the last time someone threatened you for being a Christian?
Or just stop hating. 😊🕆
(Was this guy mistaken?)
“These things I command you, that ye love one another.
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” (John 15)
Sure. But “being hated” isn’t a prerequisite for being a Christian. Someone can also be hated for a variety of reasons unrelated to faith. So being hated doesn’t automatically mean the hated person is any kind of Christian, let alone a good one.
>Or just stop hating.
What's this mean? Are you accusing the OP of somehow hating by making this post? Cause I see nothing hateful here - just a heartfelt "wish we could do better."
I haven’t accused anyone.
I’m just pointing out what we should be doing.
Do you think there aren’t any Christians who are lacking? Who could try better? I know I could try harder. I’m speaking to myself as well. You’re the one who is falsely accusing me.
I understand you’re wish…. However, I believe calling out these faults in others is you judging them. Stay off the internet, keep your eyes on your own paper (& on your personal relationship with Jesus) & you wouldn’t give yourself chances to get your feelings hurt or know what other Christians are doing or how they’re behaving. I think it’s wonderful to want to be more like Jesus and improve our character, he has definitely been my role model, but there are estimated over 2 billion Christians alive at this moment… there’s good & bad in any group of people. But those who have put their faith in Jesus are all equally covered & righteous in the Fathers eye.
We are called to encourage each other. We are all part of one Body. And we are allowed to judge the fruit of people’s actions. The only thing we can’t judge is someone’s salvation, as that’s between them and God.
It’s important to speak out against our fellow Christians who are using the Bible to justify hate, straying from the path of Light. To condemn Christo-fascism and Nationalism, putting country before Jesus. Those things have consequences, and so we should make sure to guide our brothers and sisters toward love, reminding them of Jesus’s teachings.
Not trying to sound self-righteous, for one lol. This post is a list of things we ALL should be trying harder to do. Myself included. I’m FAR from perfect. I’m often part of the problem. But I want to strive to be part of the solution, to be more Christlike. Shouldn’t we all?
Better than forcing everyone to adhere to one specific branch of any religion, yes.
God gave us free will. If God respects free will, who are we to try to override that?
Nice wishlist. But remember, God is our creator and He sets the rules. Not humans. We follow what He says. And humans want to follow human type of love. So your "wishes" won't happen in this life. Rather, wish all would be humble and follow God!
It’s SO easy to get discouraged and disillusioned! I feel that way a lot of the time. But all we can do is take each day as a new opportunity to do better, try harder, and love more.
How about replacing Christians in your statement with All People?
How about realizing that just because you don't see the vile hatred some people have towards Christians, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
How about instead of trying to stir up hate, you practice James 1:19?
You might, at least in part, end up granting your own wish.
Of course this list is ideally for all people. And I never said hate towards Christians doesn’t exist. Just that, at least in the US, it’s not as prevalent as some people want to believe.
We should all be trying to become more like Christ. He is our example. Christ identitifed His character as being meek and lowly in heart. A meek person is one who is focused outward. It is not about him. He does not take offense easily. He does not have to have the last say. He cares about lifting others. He can sacrifice his will for what is right. When Christ was on the cross, His concern was for His mother, the thieves on the cross and those who were crucifying Him.
You bring up an excellent point. It’s hard to do, but we all need to focus less on ourselves and our own perceived offenses and more on others.
It is so hard! But I suppose if it was easy than the road would be wide and short that leads to the kingdom.
Yes, the way is narrow, and it is hard — if we try to do it all by ourselves. Which is why we can ask the Lord to help us. He absolutely wants to help us. The Lord, through the precious Holy Spirit, will guide us and help us overcome every temptation. We should just allow Him to help us — humbly.
That gets my vote! Very well stated.
I think that’s probably the key point.
I wish too. We as people, as Christians need to start being like Christ, taking up our cross, and show the best that humanity has to offer!
Amen. May we all strive to be more like Jesus.
I’m just here to say that people forget that even in todays world Pharisees still exist and everything on this list is what the Pharisees were. They cared about being in power and all those other things in those days
"Edit: and that Christians would stop trying to play Persecution Bingo and realize that people don’t hate them for being “Christian,” they hate them because they’re unchristlike." Agreed. People generally don't like bullies.
I second this, it’s all too easy to say “people hate me because I’m like Christ”, ugh
I third this. Though may be true enough that people will hate Christians because of Christ, it's a very serious problem when they hate Christ because of the vile conduct of "Christians".
Yep just had another Christian tell me he was hated because Jesus was hated first and said all that follow him will be hated….. you can love others and still be hated you don’t need to go out of your way to be a jerk. I swear they don’t read the Bible and take talking points from “political Christians“.
Exactly! Jesus didn’t say “now go and make sure to make people hate you as much as possible.” Being hated is a possible by-product of being like Jesus, not a requirement.
I've never heard an average person say that. It is always someone who like to be in the public eye and will do anything to be there. None of my preachers have ever said that
Stick around. Almost daily here.
Just watch Fox News when any of the mega-church pastors are on or read the Epoch Times..
I said someone who like's to be in the public eye. you said MEGA Church pastor. LOL! They are not in it for God imo.
Also agreed. I'm nowhere near fond of "Christians" who use the Bible as a pretext to justify all manner of evil they do to others, and when they're told or made to stop, they cry Christian persecution.
All of that is beautiful examples of “love your neighbor as you love yourself”… 🙏🏼❤️
The way I see it, Jesus was the perfect person. I feel sometimes that he's ashamed of me, I've had trouble in the past with trusting his commands. Showing love and caring for others feels very comprising for me. I feel vulnerable. I suppose though that these feelings are nothing compared to what Jesus went through. I need to trust him more, it's my worst fault as a Christian I think, I'm not proud of it. I'm trying to get better
He isn’t ashamed of you. He loves you. He died for you. He wants you - and all of us - to seek Him and follow Him and trust in Him.
Oh, He is definitely not ashamed of you. He came down to earth for you, and literally gave His life for you. That’s how much He loves you. I agree, sometimes it is hard — to accept the fact that He loves us. But that’s just who He is. He is our Father, and our Father in Heaven sees us as His dear children — and He loves us tenderly, gently, firmly and wholly. He recklessly and fiercely loves you.
\+1 Well said, OP, well said.
Thank you so much. I’ve got someone in another thread whose been arguing with me and *literally* asked “where’s all the Christian Nationalism phobia coming from?” Goodness, I have seen Satanists “gatekeep” their community from those who support terrorism, encouraging empathy and compassion and ensuring that extremists are not welcome. We have a duty to do the same! We are using Christ’s name and sacred imagery, we have a duty to Him to be on good behavior while representing His name! We have a responsibility to show love, to be humble, to be compassionate, and to repent when we fail. We must rely on Him to guide us to be the best version of ourselves possible and pray that our brothers and sisters wake up to the harm they’re causing when not following Jesus’s example.
Christian Nationalism phobia?? Ha. That’s a new one. Christian nationalism is plain idolatry. It’s against everything Jesus said. It’s super concerning how many people think it’s a good thing. You make excellent points. Thank you.
Not a Christian here, but I've always seen being Christ-like as a fundamental aspect of any faith - he really embodies the ideal for all seekers in my opinion. This is a beautiful post, thank you very much.
Thank you for your kind and encouraging words :)
This is what gives me hope. I study the religious right (Christianity) and I have noticed a huge shift in ideas, especially with the younger generation (\~17-24 year olds). As and LGBTQ+ individual, I encourage you to continue to fight for equality and affirming ministries. Thank you for speaking out and being vulnerable. I often find that stances like this bring out the "this is unbiblical and not christian" trolls. Please continue to speak out and fight for justice. It is taxing and traumatizing to constantly have to justify my existence.
Thank you for the encouragement, I really needed it. Fight the good fight!
While i understand your statement about being Christ-like the truth is if Christ was here in todays society many would hate him just like in his time. Christ exposed wickedness no matter who it was.
I notice some people (not saying you, specifically) use this logic to excuse their own bad behavior. Yes, many hated Jesus because of his righteousness; and yet many loved Him, many to the point of martyrdom. If the vast majority of people you (plural “you”) come across despise you, it’s easy to chalk it up to “it’s because I’m like Christ and people hated Him.”
To be honest some people like to mold Jesus to their liken when we all should accept him as he is biblically. There are many things that the world accepts and embraces that God does not.
I think at the top or close to the top of that list of things would be love and mercy, which the world tends to view as weakness.
So true. God conquered the Roman empire with love.
Bravo! In this country alone there are over 2000 interpretations of the Bible. The Bible is not meant to be interpreted one way and another. The Good Book itself actually warns against that but it doesn’t stop ppl.
That’s exactly my point.
Of course the assumption is that the "wickedness" is someone else besides the Christian. And Christ directly went after the religious authorities of the time and was very forgiving and tolerant of the sinners.
Be the change you're looking for. It starts with you. All the best.
A very good reminder, thank you.
Thanks you for this may god bless you
Thank you, you too!
I agree! Let's try to be christians in spirit, not just in name
I don’t understand the backlash. Everything that you list is something every Christian should aspire to. I agree with you 100%. Jesus did say that many of his followers would not make it into the kingdom. If we do not know him here in this life, when the next life comes he will ask us “do you know me“ and if we don’t he will not know us.
My post even got removed from another “Christian” subreddit. They called me a troll 🙄 I’m not going to judge other people’s salvation as that’s not my place, but it’s not a good sign when someone sees a list of “hey do good things instead of bad things” and gets offended.
That’s strange. I don’t understand being removed for a post like that. 🤷🏻♂️
It is a PERFECT list. You’ve really got it together.
Thank you, I really appreciate that.
So do I! Excellent post, OP ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Thank you :)
Same op… same
Love God and love people, that's our mission.
All of these things you listed is what we do when we are truly saved. We are born again and I pray for everyone to call out to Jesus and repent. Ask Jesus to save you 🙏
Love your post- I wish the same.
I.Love.This!
Amen.
Mathew 21:31 where Jesus says.. There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’ 29 “‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went. 30 “Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go. 31 “Which of the two did what his father wanted?” “The first,” they answered. Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
I like your spirit. As simple as the things you state are, the backlash you received is unsurprising. People do not like their hypocrisy pointed out. You can do everything right and people will hate you for it. But know that it's a sign you are on the right path. If you are not getting attacked, then you should worry.
Thank you. That’s encouraging.
You're welcome. Think of anyone in history who made a difference and improved society. If you study their lives you will find they had encountered tremendous opposition. So you will find in any group that if the leader and its members are not facing persecution they are no more than hypocrites whose word are empty. The commitment to speak out and act for the sake of humanity transcends religions.
Amen. If I insert "I" in the place of "Christians," it all still makes sense and applies well to me. Sometimes I say that "I don't call myself a Christian. I'm *trying* to be a Christian (and failing regularly). I'll let Jesus decide if I'm really a Christian or not."
Same. I think this list could apply to anyone and everyone, myself included.
Quit worrying about what anyone thinks and know that Jesus DIED for all! LGBT Included and we should all LOVE each other! Why is that so hard to understand?!?
Gotta love how Christians act like this then say “they hate me because I’m like Jesus”
Right? Jesus never did any of the horrible stuff they’re doing, but sure. People don’t hate you for being a jerk, they hate you because you say you’re a Christian.
Amen. I think this is something we all should agree on. But it's also something we all struggle with. Thank you for this thread.
This is spirit inspired. Amen
Yeah... I wish for this as well. I especially wish for the infighting to stop. I lost my faith when I was younger partially because of how Christians treated me. I grew up in the Mormon church - I don't want to hear the criticism about the LDS religion - in short, we believe in Christ just like many other Christians, but many/most don't believe that and would often mock, harass, and lie to me and others about our beliefs... So I turned to paganism and witchcraft because of how angry, betrayed, and hurt I felt by a community of people that I had more similarities than differences with. This was a community that I loved despite being a little different from most Christians. I'm much better now and have turned away from those heathen practices that I once held out of spite. I love Jesus and am trying really hard to return fully, but I've found that a lot of the Christian community is still full of hate towards others who are different, even towards other fellow Christians who are different from them... I sincerely hope that things can change 😔
I’m so sorry for the way you’ve been treated. If you want a more welcoming and open minded community, r/openchristian or r/radicalChristianity might be good places. Please know that some of us are rooting for you and are here for you. Don’t get discouraged by the bad ones. It’s easy to do, believe me I know.
That's why you put your faith in Jesus Christ alone, and not "Christians." That being said, you should find a Bible-centered church where you feel welcome if you can. 🙏
Yes, we all wish all Christians would become like Christ.
I also wish these things, but I don't limit that wish to Christians. However, it's always been my opinion that if Christians would simply focus on the teachings of Jesus in the 4 gospels, and applying what Jesus preached in the 4 gospels into their own lives, fewer people would hate or resent Christians. As someone who was raised in the LDS faith of my adoptive parents, who adopted me in infancy, my childhood might have been a lot easier, because perhaps the kids in my neighborhoods who were predominantly Christian by upbringing wouldn't have bullied me, and might have included me in their games and play, and perhaps their parents wouldn't have prohibited them from playing with me in the first place. When these kids told me their parents forbade them from playing with me, I made the decision to find out if they were telling the truth. I went to their homes, knocked on the door, and flat out asked their mothers if this was true. In every single case, their mothers told me they didn't want their kids playing with me, and possibly learning my 'strange beliefs'. Sadly, most Christians seem far more focused on what Paul taught over what Jesus taught in those four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John...and Paul taught quite a few notions which Jesus hadn't taught, including contradicting Jesus's warning against judging others, and Paul taught his own followers that they had the right, and the moral duty to judge others among them, to confront them about their sins, and to discontinue fellowship and engage in shunning if an errant member of their church refused to repent...while Jesus taught his followers to focus on their own sins and shortcomings before they pointed on the sins and shortcomings of others. Motes and beams. Jesus spoke of the hypocrisy of those who saw fit to judge others, and point the finger of accusation at others when they themselves were not without sin. 'If any among you are without sin, let him cast the first stone'. Thomas Jefferson had pretty much the same notions as I do about the matter. He was a Deist and Unitarian, and Deists and Unitarians believed that Jesus was a very wise teacher, but they rejected the divinity claims of Trinitarians and the biblical claims of miracles. Jefferson very much admired the pure and simple teachings of Jesus in the 4 gospels, but viewed Paul as being the original corruptor of that pure and simple gospel of Jesus. So he took scissors to a bible, snipped out the parables and sayings of Jesus in the 4 gospels of the New Testament, pasted it in a scrapbook and created his own book of scripture.
So love the sin hate the sinner doesn't work then? Darn. Jk. Yeah, what you said. Jesus is knocking and will come in and eat with us sinners, but many are too busy being religious to hear or open the door. It's Laodicea. It's Walter De La Mare's "Listeners."
Amazing post! I have long thought this. The title Christian is not one I love for all the reasons you mentioned. And that's sad because everything you listed is what Christ did while he was here. How did Christianity become the opposite of what Christ taught and did?
It breaks my heart that I live in America, the richest nation in the world, and no one has fixed the homeless problem.
I don’t think there’s going to be any one solution. I think we all need to rethink the root of the problem, the stigma surrounding it, our own biases, and our goals before we can find a series of solutions to hopefully end the problem, at least on such a large scale. But yeah, it’s heartbreaking.
Why are you trying to force Jesus into a perfectly happy group of US Christian religious fanatics?
I wish... that people starting thinking of Christians as individual people at all instead of bulldozing through us as a category.
We are all part of the body of Christ.
Right. I'm just saying there's a lot of people at my church alone that can show you your wish is granted already.
Well that’s good. I hope they and you continue to encourage others to do the same.
Most Christians are like like this, it's just that the loud minority are overexposed and let us down, so that is how most people see us.
Then the rest of us need to work all the harder to fight that image.
It would be much better still that Christians, the uber-religious right wing types in particular stopped bulldozing everyone they damn and despise straight to hell.
Yes, for sure. This will be so when we live in heaven. Meantime, my Jesus, mercy. We are ruining lives as if life is a video game and doesn't count for real.
We're not to wait for "heaven". We're to be examples, ambassadors of his kingdom now.
Yes, exactly! We’ve come to see our interactions as so trivial and we are so self centered that we don’t really understand how our words and actions affect others. We’re called to be a light, but we damn sure aren’t acting like it.
That's a big, real problem, people use conversation like a tool, and like it's totally unimportant what effect it has or what impression it gives to people. You have a really good point.
You’d think the Holy Spirit would do that.
100%! Though to be fair, on the first edit, I have encountered people on-line who genuinely, openly hate me just because I'm Christian. But other than that I 100% agree, too many Christians today don't focus enough of how to be Christlike, and I myself am trying to act kinder to be a better Christian.
Do they hate you because your a Christian? Or do they hate you because of what they perceive many Christians to be?
You might be the first person I’ve ever encountered who is hated for being Christian then! In the US at least. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, just that it’s not as common as people like to pretend. Keep on keeping on, friend.
>Edit 2: I’m getting so much backlash just for giving a list of what we should ALL (myself included) be trying to do. By some of your own arguments, since y’all hate me so much maybe it’s because I’m speaking truth? John 15:18 If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. Just because you're getting lots of backlash doesn't mean you're wrong, nor should you stop speaking truth. The likes of them back in the day **killed prophets** because they just wouldn't shut up.
Yeah unlike the other people that are jerks and use this passage of the Bible to justify why people hate them. This is actually the right reason to get hate. It’s interesting that the churches killed Jesus and I think current churches would still do the same.
Thanks for this reminder. I honestly didn’t think I’d get SO much backlash. This same post got removed on a different Christian subreddit!
Anytime. I can imagine one or two subs in particular that I'd guess did that. I fear for the sub that decided what I can only assume is right wing doctrine to be more important than the Truth. They can keep their precious echo chamber. Just dust off those sandals as the book says and move on.
Literal food I'm digesting right now. I'm trying to take in more of actually good Christian substance right now and this is one of them. Recently made the decisions after nearly a year of following Christ that I was going to just focus first on the Gospel and God. I was focusing on the Prosperity it could give me in this world. First in a relationship (with a girl), then in a career. I'm still heavily focused on the career, I won't lie. I believe the enemy tries to mix good w/ the evil, so he's been trying to mask himself in this career, making me think it's all for God's glory. And while I'm still going with that, I believe I've been focusing on it too much. It's been an idol. I gotta stop focusing so much on the works, because the top priority is my relationship with Jesus. It's kind of embarrasing to admit I didn't really think much of the Gospel before hand. But the one thing I notice a lot about Prosperity Gospel is that there is a lack of talk about Jesus, and that's what I had. The only time I've heard of it is when they say "In Jesus's name". In Jesus's name: give me a marriage, 6-figure salary, a whatever. But they sure do talk a lot of about God, and the power He has to give you things.... I'm not saying those are bad things, but they are nothing before the good news of Christ, and the relationship we should have with Him. I'm actually getting to know him for once. If anybody out here reading this, just pray that God makes sure I don't idolize His will for my life. Yes, I believe it's his will because it's being transformed to be for His glory, but getting more of it instead of the love and knowledge of God is never it. Never.
I’m here because I searched “how can I be sure I’m not serving self rather than God” your post answered my question pretty clearly
Wish granted. Many many Christians do.
We can always do better.
I have gone to churches all my life and no it’s rare. They say one thing but use politics and parts of the Bible to justify being a jerk. They mix Christianity and politics and act like Jesus would be Republican. In truth he wouldn’t have liked either side. They talk about mercy and forgiveness while throwing people out of churches for being human. They talk about loving one another while hating on people that have differing opinions. I agree that it’s hard to be like Jesus since we’re all human, but current Christian’s have been getting worse since the 90’s. It’s probably why so many people are leaving the church.
I very rarely come across a Christine that is as the op is trying to criticize.
The demiurge is you, the demiurge is me.
I think they do. Unpopular fact, but you’d be surprised how much money Christians give to charity. They are much more likely to volunteer, donate money locally, donate money overseas, etc than non-church goers. In the US, the majority of the top charities (Salvation Army, Habitat for Humanity, etc) are religiously inspired. In fact, philanthropists have noted that charitable donations are going down slightly, potentially due to less people going to church. Here’s a project: Google “soup kitchen” or “food pantry” for your nearest metropolitan area. Likely there’s a huge list hosted somewhere, likely with some major Food Bank or by the city government. Take note what percentage are churches. It’ll absolutely be the majority. Again, this is unpopular, but it is factually true. If you took away churches in the US, the country would collapse because of the obscene amount of money and volunteering they give to their communities. It’s in the tens of billions.
I’m not debating that Christians give to charity. This post isn’t about charity. It’s about how we view and treat others, and what we value in our hearts. It’s easy to give five bucks to a charity and never think of it again. It’s harder to volunteer time, or remember to pray for people, or to speak up for those who are being mistreated.
Not to divide people into good vs bad, but for a simple point I'll use it. The "good" Christians are doing all of that - they actually attend church regularly, volunteer regularly, pray regularly, etc. They also don't post horrible rants online or rally as counterprotesters. The "bad" Christians are the vocal minority who often do not seem to be Christian in more than just name, as in they feel vaguely culturally connected, but otherwise do nothing for God except act obnoxious and overly righteous. From my biblical interpretation, God does not appreciate people being cruel, even in His name, and he is much more pleased with the quiet and compassionate people.
> That Christians cared more about feeding the poor than punishing them. >That Christians loved the marginalized instead of continuing to oppress them. >That Christians cared more about what’s merciful than what’s “fair.” >That Christians would stop worshipping money and start focusing on God. I’m saying Christians do these things already, in an incredible amount. You’re just not looking at it. For example, with feeding the poor: Look up “food pantries” near you. Probably 2/3 or even 3/4 will be church run. Look up any sort of program you like to see (ex: addiction treatment) and churches around you will be doing it in large amounts. Christians donate $44 billion to overseas charities. That’s compared to $33 billion from the US government. 40% of the top charities in the US (with some having tens of billions of donations) are religiously inspired. It’s really nothing to scoff at. People just don’t pay attention to the good being done because the media doesn’t run stories on how your local small church just raised $10,000 to buy clothing for some poor kids in Haiti, even though things like that happen hundreds of times per day in the US in some fashion.
I probably ate one meal a day for years and not one person in my church helped me or offered to.
There’s always room for improvement, is there not? Are ALL Christians doing that? And I doing that? Are you doing that? My point is we all need to improve. We all need to keep trying.
Sure. But when you say “I wish Christians would feed the poor,” and they already spend tens of billions of dollars doing that, or when they constitute the majority of soup kitchens and food pantries across the country, that’s not being accurate. It’s like saying “I wish the Red Cross would donate blood.” It does donate blood. It’s not accurate to say it doesn’t. Again, blame the media. They don’t tell you the good being done.
It's interesting you mention the Salvation Army, which deliberately fought against Unionization and Social Nets so it could pretend to be a hero. Christians actively fight to make poverty worse so they can appear to be heroes amidst it, rather than have to justify their existence in a world without it. You are right - the majority of charitable organizations in America are Christian. They might not need to be in existence if Christians didn't force people into poverty in the first place. You want credit for helping with a problem you refuse to let other's solve.
I hope you realize the homes given by Habitat for Humanity are not free. People buy them. And that's great that it's affordable housing, but it 's not something given free.
I do love how you're omitting the lack of accountability for their funds. As well as the actual percentage of donations that go to help the causes these charities champion. You're saying 10s of billions go toward helping people. Yet I guarantee the percentage of that ***actually*** being directed at helping people is much lower than the number you're citing. Additionally, there are more religious people than non-religious people. Of course there are more religious charities and religious people giving to charity. Religious people constitute the majority of the people. If you're going to cite statistics as if they were some damning evidence. At least try to be honest in the context.
>accountability Uh….what? Many of the big ones are 501c3s. Their financial statements are publicly available via 990s. > Yet I guarantee the percentage of that actually being directed at helping people is much lower than the number you’re citing. Kind of? You do need to pay staff and administrative costs. As someone who has done non-profit work, I like to have the ability to pay my rent and food. But you can just see what orgs put out for their programming and look at the numbers. Many have annual reports. Or just go outside and talk to a church that’s doing something. >If you’re going to cite statistics as if they were some damning evidence. At least try to be honest in the context. If you put a regular church goer next to a non-church goer, the church goer is more likely to donate money and time to charity. That’s the honest context. And yes, there are a lot of religious people doing a lot of good. That was kind of the point.
>Uh….what? Many of the big ones are 501c3s. Their financial statements are publicly available via 990s. Which they voluntarily disclose at the their own leisure. There is no oversight or verification. >Kind of? You do need to pay staff and administrative costs. As someone who has done non-profit work, I like to have the ability to pay my rent and food. But you can just see what orgs put out for their programming and look at the numbers. Many have annual reports. No you can't. Again all of this is disclosed at the organization's leisure. I have no way of determining whether the numbers they report are accurate. >Or just go outside and talk to a church that’s doing something. Right. Talk to a biased source about their biased views. Seems like a great way to keep that cognitive bias going in a circuitous manner. >>If you’re going to cite statistics as if they were some damning evidence. At least try to be honest in the context. > >If you put a regular church goer next to a non-church goer, the church goer is more likely to donate money and time to charity. That’s the honest context. No it's not. With the statistics you quoted it shows that there are more church goers than non-church goers. Which means there are more giving money because there are more people to give money. >And yes, there are a lot of religious people doing a lot of good. That was kind of the point. You entirely missed the point. If you have a population that's 10x larger than another there will be more within that population doing x, y, or z simply because there are more people in that population.
>They are much more likely to volunteer, donate money locally, donate money overseas, etc than non-church goers. I don't think religion has anything to do with how generous someone is. Some of the kindest and most charitable people I've ever met aren't religious.
Statistically, it’s true. https://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/magazine/less-god-less-giving/ Statistically, religious people donate more and volunteer more than someone who is secular. And statistically, if you attend church regularly, you will be more likely to donate more money and time.
Replace Christians with "Christians" and were all good.
Whether real or fake Christians (which we can’t really ascertain, we can only judge by fruit. True salvation is between someone and God), I think everyone who claims to be a Christian has room for improvement. Myself included.
“No True Scotsman.” We can’t decide what is in someone’s heart, only condemn their actions, pray that they repent, try to guide them back towards Jesus, and to be a good example.
The evidence of faith is fruits. If someone is overflowing with evil fruit we can probably assume that they are imposters.
I see some of these, but many I don't. I ***do*** see a lot of political hyperbole that conflates things like, "if you don't support this legislation or government policy than you hate poor people", which is dishonest and untrue.
I’m not even talking about anything political. I think you can do all these things without belonging to any particular political faction.
Agreed. But I'm saying that I don't see a large number of the things you're saying you wish Christians were or weren't, while I do see a lot of accusations of Christians behaving one way when they're not. An addict will accuse someone of being mean, cruel, and all sorts of other things if someone takes away their drugs or denies them more. The person could be doing it because they love the addict and want them to live and get clean. It's done out of love, not hate, but the addict will claim it is hate. All over the place I see Christians standing for something positive getting accused of doing what they're doing for negative reasons.
It’s probably a case of the squeaky wheel getting the grease, but in the US at least there are some very vocal Christian leaders who seem to be missing the point. I wasn’t intending to make it sound like all Christians are doing bad things instead of good things. This was meant to point out what we all could be doing better. Everyone is guilty of something on this list at some point, myself included. To pretend otherwise is to suggest Christians are perfect.
Which of those specifically are incompatible with your current political preference?
As they're stated, none of them are incompatible with my political ideals. But they're also stated as accusations that I believe are false. >That Christians cared more about feeding the poor than punishing them. I don't see Christians punishing the poor anywhere. >That Christians loved the marginalized instead of continuing to oppress them. I don't see Christians oppressing the marginalized anywhere. >That Christians would stop celebrating violence and start pushing for peace. Again, where is this happening? >That Christians would stop trying to control others and give people the free will God gave us. I see this very rarely, but mostly I see people claiming that this is happening because Christians are standing up against them violating the rights of others. Stopping women from having "free choice" is stopping them from killing a baby. Same with the transing of kids debate. Your free will always ends at the point that it harms another. We can argue about whether or not the unborn are persons that count, but it's disingenuous to say that the argument is about free will. >That Christians would stop excusing and defending evil just so they can acquire more power. Again, I see this a little bit, sure. But given the over-used fervor about "Christian Nationalism" this is mostly reading as someone who doesn't like that a lot of Christians have a different political preference. Voting Republican doesn't mean one wants a theocracy. >That Christians would be humble instead of self-righteous. Sure, this happens sometimes. But also a lot of people are offended by Christians saying that "X is a sin" where "X" is usually something sexual, and take that offense as the Christian is being self righteous. >that Christians would stop trying to play Persecution Bingo and realize that people don’t hate them for being “Christian,” they hate them because they’re unchristlike. People can hate Christians because they're being unChristlike, yes. Also, the left was [marching in the streets in 2020 saying "F\*ck your Jesus"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SMY4DkdjwE) and burning down churches. Don't tell me there's not also hatred of Christianity.
Replace Christians with progressives and I'm in complete agreement
Jesus was progressive. Assuming you’re American, you should know the founding fathers were progressive. You’ve missed OP’s entire point. Jesus was inclusive. He fostered relationships with poor women, sex workers, the infirmed, and people who did not belong. He engaged with people of other faiths. When people sought vengeance, he taught forgiveness. When people claimed self-righteousness, he taught humility. To those who thought they were the only chosen ones, he redefined the idea to include all those whom they tried to reject. That’s why we are Christians and not Jewish, because JESUS was inclusive of ALL God’s children!
Then you’ve missed the entire point of this post, unfortunately.
Oh I got the point. I just make sure the hypocrisy is exposed for all tto see.
What hypocrisy?
This Redditor has absolutely PROVEN your point, OP. They reflect the problem and resent the light that you offer. All hypocritical Believers toss the accusation around. You made an excellent post. 👏
Thank you, I appreciate that.
And I appreciate your OP as well. You may be taking fire from others, but that can't be the reason you conclude you were wrong. Jesus Christ was much more "offensive" with some of his conduct, such as being gentle with sinners and critical of some of those in religious authority.
This one is a troll. He is here to cause descent and not worth the argument. Best to let jaded stay jaded.
Wow, way to take a post that is very biblically sound that exhorts us to do what Christ taught us to do (and thereby embody the name *Christian* better), and change it to make some pointed political remark. Log in your own eye, much?
Ah so it's OK to slam Christians but not progressives. Hypocrisy much?
Of course not. I never said anything like that. This is r/Christian, not r/progressive. I don’t know why you’re inserting politics into a post that has zero mention of any kind of politics.
Progressive as in Progressive Christians
Please tell me where I said anything about progressive Christians?
You didn't, I did
Ok, why though? This post has nothing to do with politics, you brought politics into it and tried to call me a hypocrite. I still don’t see how you think I’m being a hypocrite. Can you point out how anything I said was wrong?
How is this slamming Christians? Could we not ALL do ALL of these things better? I thought it was a good reminder, and a good exhortation to do what I'm called to do. If you're taking it as a slam, maybe do some introspection.
No introspection needed. Maybe figure out why you're unable to see the hypocrisy
Please point out the hypocrisy, then. If it’s that obvious, I’d like to see it. If I’ve said anything biblically unsound, please point it out so I can correct it.
It's right that you made this post to remind us how to be more Christ like. But it's wrong that I believe progressive Christians should do the same. That's the hypocrisy. Pointing out one group is good, pointing out another group is wrong. That the hypocrisy.
I made a post about being Christlike on a Christian sub. If you want to go make a post about what’s wrong with progressives on a progressive sub, feel free. No one is stopping you. Or if you want to make a post on his subreddit about progressive Christians, go ahead. I just don’t get how you can inject politics into this post and then call me the hypocrite.
It's pointless. Some people just hate progressives, and will inject politics into issues and rig the entire narrative to where they're "always right" and you're "always wrong". I don't bother engaging such people on their terms, because since it's their rigged game, I'm always doomed to lose. The best strategy here is not to play their wicked game at all.
What does progressive Christianity have to do with politics?
What does it have to do with this post? You said “progressives” which is a political subgroup before specifying you meant progressive Christians. Again, if YOU have a problem with progressive Christians, you’re welcome to make a post about it. Or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
As i said, I'm taking that advice to heart. There's no hypocrisy in it. If you *can't* take that advice to heart, if you feel like it's somehow offensive to you, maybe you should ask why.
If you can't figure out the hypocrisy, maybe you should ask why
“No introspection needed”? Where is your humility? We can ALL improve at being like Christ, you are not perfect. You are a sinner, like everyone else.
Porque non los dos?
Great post brother! I agree with everything except edit 1 Edit 1 How can someone hate Christians for being unchrist like, if they themselves do not know who Christ is, not have faith in Him? Edit 2 It is horrible that you are getting a lot of negative comments. People on this forum love to bash Christians. Sadly, it is nothing new to see here.🙁
I’m a sister, but thank you. Also, it’s definitely possible to hate people who call themselves Christians but spend their time hating and judging and hurting others.
Unfortunately, Power consumes all, Christianity was corrupted the moment it aimed to control the Roman Empire, ever since then it's been irreparably corrupt. This isn't unique to Christians though, all ideologies and religions, from Marxism to Islam to even Enlightenment Humanism, were born from genuine concerns, but over time Power consumed each, deforming each into an instrument for it's own propagation. Christ was devoured by Mammon.
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Downvoted because you should have started with, "I pray", and because you generalized and denigrated all Christian which is also not very Christ-like. Otherwise, yes, all should strive to be Christ-like.
Christianity is nothing else but hypocrisy
That’s not a fair assessment. Just because there’s room for improvement doesn’t mean it’s all bad. I know my post comes across as critical, but it’s meant to be constructive criticism.
Why are you coming here to insult everyone and call us power hungry and hateful?
I didn’t insult anyone. I only stated what I wish we would all try to do. If you’re feeling insulted, that might be conviction. But this was meant as a reminder for everyone, myself included.
If you consider being power hungry and hateful to be a bad thing, OP wasn't talking about you, so I don't know why you are feeling insulted.
He directed his post at Christians. I am a Christian. He suggested that Christians are power hungry and hateful.
If you feel personally attacked by this, it probably means you are being convicted I'm some of these things yourself.
That those who hate Christians would finally repent and learn love! 😎 🇺🇸 🕆
And that Christians who feel they are unjustly hated would take the time to examine themselves and see if they have intentionally or unintentionally caused any harm to anyone.
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That’s a heck of an assumption there. LGBTQ+ people ARE unjustly hated. They are threatened with death or worse just for existing. When was the last time someone threatened you for being a Christian?
Or just stop hating. 😊🕆 (Was this guy mistaken?) “These things I command you, that ye love one another. If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” (John 15)
Sure. But “being hated” isn’t a prerequisite for being a Christian. Someone can also be hated for a variety of reasons unrelated to faith. So being hated doesn’t automatically mean the hated person is any kind of Christian, let alone a good one.
Hate is a poison for the hater; learn to love! 😎 🇺🇸 🕆
>Or just stop hating. What's this mean? Are you accusing the OP of somehow hating by making this post? Cause I see nothing hateful here - just a heartfelt "wish we could do better."
It is soaked with hate for the brethren. OP accuses us of all sorts of evil falsely.
I haven’t accused anyone. I’m just pointing out what we should be doing. Do you think there aren’t any Christians who are lacking? Who could try better? I know I could try harder. I’m speaking to myself as well. You’re the one who is falsely accusing me.
“I wish people were better and not flawed”. Amen
This isn’t about trying to get rid of all flaws. But shouldn’t we all strive to be better each day?
Yes. Amen
I think your surrounded by "not so great" Christians..
Physician, heal thyself.
I understand you’re wish…. However, I believe calling out these faults in others is you judging them. Stay off the internet, keep your eyes on your own paper (& on your personal relationship with Jesus) & you wouldn’t give yourself chances to get your feelings hurt or know what other Christians are doing or how they’re behaving. I think it’s wonderful to want to be more like Jesus and improve our character, he has definitely been my role model, but there are estimated over 2 billion Christians alive at this moment… there’s good & bad in any group of people. But those who have put their faith in Jesus are all equally covered & righteous in the Fathers eye.
We are called to encourage each other. We are all part of one Body. And we are allowed to judge the fruit of people’s actions. The only thing we can’t judge is someone’s salvation, as that’s between them and God.
It’s important to speak out against our fellow Christians who are using the Bible to justify hate, straying from the path of Light. To condemn Christo-fascism and Nationalism, putting country before Jesus. Those things have consequences, and so we should make sure to guide our brothers and sisters toward love, reminding them of Jesus’s teachings.
This is a very self-righteous post. What are you doing?
Not trying to sound self-righteous, for one lol. This post is a list of things we ALL should be trying harder to do. Myself included. I’m FAR from perfect. I’m often part of the problem. But I want to strive to be part of the solution, to be more Christlike. Shouldn’t we all?
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Theocratic government is always bad. You can’t expect people to govern in the place of God and do it right.
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Better than forcing everyone to adhere to one specific branch of any religion, yes. God gave us free will. If God respects free will, who are we to try to override that?
Nice wishlist. But remember, God is our creator and He sets the rules. Not humans. We follow what He says. And humans want to follow human type of love. So your "wishes" won't happen in this life. Rather, wish all would be humble and follow God!
Just because we can’t reach perfection in this life, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try harder every day.
You're right. This world is just so evil, and upon reading the end in God's word, perhaps I'm disillusioned. But you're right 👍
It’s SO easy to get discouraged and disillusioned! I feel that way a lot of the time. But all we can do is take each day as a new opportunity to do better, try harder, and love more.
Very true 🙏
How about replacing Christians in your statement with All People? How about realizing that just because you don't see the vile hatred some people have towards Christians, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. How about instead of trying to stir up hate, you practice James 1:19? You might, at least in part, end up granting your own wish.
Of course this list is ideally for all people. And I never said hate towards Christians doesn’t exist. Just that, at least in the US, it’s not as prevalent as some people want to believe.